Diogo Seixas is a speaker, author, educator, and a Ph.D. candidate at Southern Illinois University. He is the founder of Ride Academy and he works with young people to help them think about their future. Diogo has a passion for helping others find their dreams. He's a positive force with an intense desire to help others.
Quotes From This Episode
Diogo Seixas
Organization Mentioned in This Episode
Resources Discussed in This Episode
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Learn More About the International Leadership Association (ILA)
Diogo Seixas is a speaker, author, educator, and a Ph.D. candidate at Southern Illinois University. He is the founder of Ride Academy and he works with young people to help them think about their future. Diogo has a passion for helping others find their dreams. He's a positive force with an intense desire to help others.
Quotes From This Episode
Diogo Seixas
Organization Mentioned in This Episode
Resources Discussed in This Episode
Diogo's Watching and Listening to...
Other Podcast Guests Mentioned In This Episode
Learn More About the International Leadership Association (ILA)
Note: Voice to text transcriptions are about 90% accurate.
Scott Allen 0:00
My guest today is Diogo Seixas. And we met because of the Collegiate Leadership Competition, probably about two years ago, but I was just saying to Diogo, that we didn't really have any time to sit down and build a relationship and connect. So we were, we were emailing a few weeks back, and I thought this would be really, really fun. To really get your perspective. You are an author, you're a speaker, you're starting a PhD program. And yeah, I probably have stolen all of your thunder now, sir. Why don't you say a few things about yourself. And then we'll jump into our conversation today.
Diogo Seixas 0:38
Awesome. Thanks Scott. First is just like great to hear you say my name. Because I've been listening to your podcast for a while now. And you know, like seeing hearing you like introducing me right now. It's pretty exciting. Like, I can feel that I'm listening myself in your podcast. Thanks a lot for, for having me. A little bit about myself. So I am from Brazil, or originally, um, I came here, I came to the US for the first time in 2014, as a exchange student, I did one year he was salary noise diversity. And then I had to go back and finish my degree in Brazil. But on that one year, that was that I was sure. I had a great experience in the leadership development program. And that really changed my life. You know, I, I finished my undergrad in production engineering, but I changed it my focus from engineering to leadership. So when I went back to Brazil, I started talking about leadership and more specifically, about self-leadership, helping students. And then in 2017, I got back to the US to work on the same program that I graduated here. So you, and that was my job for the past three years. And now I decided to challenge myself and going to the Ph. D. program in business. So that's a very, very long story short about myself and how I ended up here.
Scott Allen 2:14
Well, that is really, really cool. So I didn't realize that you were engineering to begin with, and the leadership development program at SIU really changed your trajectory. So what were some of the things that what were some ingredients that, that kind of facilitated that? What do you think that's, that's pretty powerful.
Diogo Seixas 2:34
It is, it is. So when, uh, when I first started college in 2011, I my course was very new. I was the second cohort going through the whole program. And so there wasn't that many opportunities outside classroom there. And then we ended up I have you ever heard about AIESEC? It's a student organization?
Scott Allen 3:01
I haven't No.
Diogo Seixas 3:03
Okay, so AIESEC, it's a world organization that develops leadership through exchange opportunities. So basically, it's a student organization that takes people from their countries to other countries, and also bring people from other countries in my case to Brazil to do social work, or sometimes even working companies. So it's that bridge between, you know, NGOs, companies and students. So we ended up starting AIESEC in my college, and, you know, we were five friends. So who was going to do what? I ended up being the president? And of course, I sucked, like the whole year, right? I had no idea what leadership was. For me, honestly, it was more like a title than anything else, you know, like you wanted that figure that everybody looks up to? Yeah, but I had no idea about what you do, you know, besides motivate people. Yeah. And I think what trigger for me was when I came to SIU, and it was part of the leadership development program, I saw that a lot of the things that I was learning in the program were mistakes. That were things that I also learned, but based on my mistakes at AIESEC in Brazil, so that was like the trigger. You know, I was like, wow, you can really learn leadership in if you do this, right. You can create like changing in whatever you go. And because I saw myself changing, my friends changing, I decided that that was something that I wanted to pursue. I knew that I wanted to help people. I didn't know how, when I learned about leadership, that became a passion and I connected both things. Like I, I knew that I could help people, especially students, true leadership, and then I kind of Like gave up engineering to pursue that path.
Scott Allen 5:03
That's great. That's great. You know, I have a similar experience in some ways. So my primary, I had never served in a leadership role until I joined a fraternity at the University of Minnesota. And I was kind of this shy, I was not all that confident. I had never led anything. And all of a sudden, I got into this organization. And for four years, I was heavily involved, heavily involved. But I didn't have a course, I had no knowledge of what great leaders do nothing. And so it was hilarious to go, because in my first job, my manager actually had a 7am book club. And we read the Leadership Challenge by Kouzes and Posner. And and I sat there literally every day, and just thought, well, I screwed that up. That that was wrong. Well, you could have done that differently, Scott. And it was it was just transformative, that this was even a topic that I could study or learn about. And I was hooked in, like, literally in that moment, because it was juxtaposed with this really powerful experience. This content, I just found transformational. Right. And it sounds like you had somewhat of a similar, similar experience and an "aha" moment.
Diogo Seixas 6:22
Oh, yeah. And see, I love how life works Scott, because the base for the leadership development program here is the Leadership Challenge. So my first contact with leadership was through the five practices of exemplary leaders. And that was the thing that, you know, was like my wake up call to to leadership. Yeah, so it's nice to hear that, you know, we came from the same origins, I guess from Yes, that's Yes.
Scott Allen 6:51
Well, and so tell I, when we originally talked about having this conversation, and we'll get to a couple different concepts. But as you look at even your home country of Brazil, how do you think about basically, now that you've studied leadership here, that kind of a, us most of the scholars, probably, obviously, Kouzes, and Posner and kind of a US perspective of the topic? How do you think about leadership at home? Is it similar? Or is it different? What? I'd love to hear your thoughts on that question?
Diogo Seixas 7:28
Yeah, you know, what, when we first talked about this, that was very interesting, because I know that there are some things that are different, but I never I never saw that as something that would like stand out from from each other.
Scott Allen 7:47
Sure
Diogo Seixas 7:49
I think that generally, speaking, Brazilians are more a more a more people person, they know that they're more like a relationship based. It's almost like to to do business with Brazilians. Like you do business with a person, not with a company. And then like, you have to build that relationship before you sell something. And I think that was like one of the one of the biggest difference you know, like, we array more people related people person, I think that's the analogy, the language that we can use. So that's definitely the biggest difference. I have friends that you know, know other Brazilians and they always say, like, Wow, you guys are always like smiling. You guys seem like super happy all the time. You know, and I even I had a fun story that my, I don't know if that's relevant or not. But when you think about that was super funny, but I have a neighbor here. And every time I pass through his house, I say, "Hey, good morning, you know, how you doing?" And Scott? No kidding. I think it took me probably like two months for him to say like, "Hey, good morning," you know, like, just say it back. So it was just also like, I persisted, you know, and I finally got to build that small relationship with my neighbor here. So that's for like, I think like the biggest difference, you know, that that I saw here.
Scott Allen 9:26
Yep. Well, so so heavily relationship based. Tell me about leadership. When you when you went home for it was a couple years, I believe you said what, what is the context like from a leadership education standpoint? Is it in every university like it is here in the United States? Is it is it less common? How does the kind of infrastructure work? In Brazil?
Diogo Seixas 9:54
So the biggest difference also, I see. It's that I feel like there's more thinking not about educators but about the students. I feel like students are more leadership oriented to like the students in Brazil, they know the importance of learning leadership, you know, and the biggest proof of that is, so I told you about AIESEC. When I think about other student organizations in Brazil, have you ever heard about Junior Enterprise? The Junior Enterprise movement?
Scott Allen 10:29
I have not.
Diogo Seixas 10:31
Okay. So Junior Enterprise movement is a, they are student organizaiton also, that they basically do consultancy work to its small companies, if you know what, the CEO program right and heard about that one?. Okay, cool. So it's basically the CEO program, but for college students. So I was like, look at the numbers also before talks here. And the junior enterprise movement in Brazil today has over 22,000 students is spreaded througout Brazil. Wow. those projects that they make that usually it can go from a finance project to maybe they have to build a mechanical part to a machine for a company, you know, yep. So it's a big range of broad projects, from different majors, from engineering to business, to geography, history, you know, there's like, a very broad range, but I was looking at their numbers and from 2016 to 2018, they made over $15 million dollars. Wow. So this is just like amazing, because it's that self organized organization by students. And then driven enterprise movement is a big one there is that also today has probably, I, I saw the numbers here, but like thousands and thousands of students, then we have the Engineer Without Borders, which was organization that I worked also with them. And what impresses me, it's that their organization level, they have universities, and then each university has a state organization that takes care of them. And then there's also another organization in the federal level that organizes all of them. Okay, all the Federation's also meet once a year to talk about the Ward Project. So for me, it's just like amazing to see how those student organizations organize themselves to help students improve and to to develop themselves and becoming better leaders. And then when I when I came to the US, though, something that I didn't see in a big proportion like that, I feel like here, it's more STEM related, more hands on with you a robot with you a car. And that's how they end up practicing leadership. But I think like those are like the the two differences. But again, your question was about, like how the, as a leadership educator, how those two things are different. And I think like in Brazil, the students give more value to learn leadership, then here, if that makes sense.
Scott Allen 13:36
Yeah. What do you mean that that, just to clarify that the students really value being engaged, being involved being active and doing, right? And that's, that's the primary model of vehicle for learning leadership? It seems to me at times here, leadership, education can be a little more passive, even a little bit at the collegiate level where we're sitting in a room and we're kind of learning about leadership. Now, of course, that's not a hard and fast rule. But is that what you mean?
Diogo Seixas 14:09
Yes, yes, it is. You can on so for example, another thing that was big and receiving that I missed so much here is the amount of conferences that we had there. And I don't know if it's because it's my It was my environment. I used to pay speaker back there. And here, I ended up working with a small group in one university, but and the semester before coming here. I spoke in probably more than like 20 different conferences, all organized by students. And all those conferences they had a some leadership there sometimes was engineering, sometimes was business, sometimes was, you know, biotech, like whatever it was, but they're always talking about leadership.
Scott Allen 15:00
Wow. So students that are organizing right?
Diogo Seixas 15:04
students organizing. Yes,
Scott Allen 15:06
That's a big difference. I mean, that really is a big difference, because it at least my impression of the us is that there's always an adult who's either an advisor or someone who's administering the the student programming. Does that make sense?
Diogo Seixas 15:23
Yes, it does. That's a great point. And I think that's what I was trying to just say about, you know, it, the need for leadership comes from them, like they know how important that is.
Scott Allen 15:37
That's really cool. Well, so tell me about your experience, because you served as a coach for the Collegiate Leadership Competition. And that's, for our listeners, that's an organization where we have students who that university is kind of sign on, you get a coach, the, the University assigns a coach. And then there's teams of six students. And those six students practice leadership for three or four months. And then after that practice, season is done. There's a competition. And so you served as a coach for for two years, I believe, or was it three?
Diogo Seixas 16:15
I think was three, because then the third year was the pandemic. So we ended up not not happening, but it was three years. Yes.
Scott Allen 16:22
So share just a couple observations of that experience. What What stood out for you from CLC.
Diogo Seixas 16:30
Oh, my God's fight, honestly, that I remember telling Bela that that the first time I saw the curriculum, I was like, acronyms, you know, like, how, how can you learn leadership from acronyms? And Scott? And whoever's listening, I couldn't be more wrong. You know, because it was great to see throughout the years, or students like going back to the acronyms to you know, either have a confrontation, or either, you know, talk about like, a leadership style or a follower style, you know, and because we all knew what that meant, he made so much sense, you know, like, we're all on the same pattern. We're all with the same knowledge. I can't tell how many times the CONFRONT model, for example, helped me, you know, how many times when I had students coming to me saying, hey, like, I'm having a problem with this, this friend, or this professor, what should I do? I was always like, Okay, sit here, we're gonna really talk about like, how to CONFRONTpeople. Yeah. And I would always, like, you know, guide them through those steps. A big one for me. Also, I don't know if I can say all those things like, SOLVE model Yes, was a huge one, you know, when, when we think about, like, what we call, we have a problem and what we're gonna do, usually we just like, step into the solution, right? We don't make sure that everybody understood that problem. Very often, we don't even know who's gonna be the leader of that activity. Right? So that's, that's probably the two that I use the most, you know, it's, and it's so funny, because it's for everything. If we have our students and we needed to the site we were going to eat, it's always like, okay, let's use the solve model. You know, who's gonna be a leader? Who's gonna keep track of time? You know, it's such a great experience. And, honestly, I think I remember you saying, Scott, when we first met in 2018, at the conference was a spring. So 2018 Yep. I remember you're saying that the competition was our excuse to practice the leadership. Yes. And it's amazing to see how much effort you guys put in that. No. One when I first saw the activities from the competition, and even like from the the curriculum, I was so impressed about how many like details are there in how its structure everything is, and then talking with Bela was so Bela, like, why don't you guys get all those things? And she said, like, "Oh, we create it!"
Scott Allen 19:19
Yeah.
Diogo Seixas 19:19
And I didn't know it was possible to create something like that. So the collegiate leadership competition definitely blew my mind about not only curriculum, and how simple you guys make that, that appear. You know, I also like practicing that, and all the tension and the excitement from the competition. So it was an amazing experience. as a as a coach, and as a participant. Also, when it's a it's a roller coaster, right? I mean, it's And for those who are listening Bela, Diogo, she was the executive director, incredible woman just built this organization to what it's become and absolutely just an incredible person. And so, we are so thankful for all that she did to help build the CLC. That's for sure. And so now, you've moved out of your, your previous role at SIU you and you have, you're taking on the PhD. I love it. I love it and was authored a book, it was kind of funny. You wrote me today, I just decided to write a book this summer. So I want to hear about that. But tell me about the PhD program. What are you thinking about? What is the focus that you do you have? Do you have any sense of what what's to come? It's exciting.
Yeah. It is, it is. That was a big decision. For me, Scott, because Genoa know, I, I know that I this was like, a big decision for me. Because when I was in Brazil, and I started, you know, as a speaker and talking about leadership, my role was outside the classroom, you know, I would touch people outside the classroom and help them to become a better person that matters to them, a better leader. And when I came to SIU, he was a student organization. So he wasn't like he was, and it wasn't inside the classroom, you know, so I had my role as a teacher, as a professor as a coach over there. But I always taught myself, you know, there's a lot of people trying to change the educational system or whatever, like from outside, right, and that is very effective. But I also know that we can serve as as examples for other people inside the classroom, as well. So I think that was like my biggest motivator, you know, it's to become a exemple for people and for other people that are always saying, "oh, we need to change the educational system and blah, blah, blah, you know, so let's do it. Let's do it from from inside the classroom." And it's amazing to see Scott, like what you do, you know, like, I'm always listening to your podcast, I heard that one from the Leadership Educators Podcast and how they know like, you were adapting to everything. And they're just like, a bunch of like, mainly more great examples out there that are really like doing a great job in developing students and leaders inside the classroom. So that was my, my main goal, you know that that's what I want to do. In terms of research, I know that I want to do something related to new generation. So millennials and students and Gen Z, Gen X. And I want to work with either values, pace theory, or goal setting theory, something that gives students like more of a direction of where to go. It's funny that I am like, trying to explain all this to you. There's like so many other things coming to my mind, because, you know, there was like a huge path that led me to take to come to this conclusion. And it was also one of the reasons why I wrote the book. Not it doesn't have much to do about the Ph. D. program, but the sting of all life changing and helping people of course.
Scott Allen 23:30
yeah. Well, you'll be an incredible educator, you'll do an awesome job. You, you you have you have passion for the work. And that's, that's what I love about about my job is that in job isn't even the right word. It's not. When I go to the classroom, it's not like I'm going to "work" that just doesn't sound. It doesn't sound right. It's like this silly thing that I have kind of a racket I'm running that I get paid to interact with, with wonderful, young people who are looking kind of up at their career and trying to figure out what they want to lock into and do. And if I can be a small part of that. That's, that's not work. That's that's fun. That's, that's it's, it's, there's another word for it. Other than work, and you have that energy in that passion as well. And you'll change lives. I mean, you really well.
Diogo Seixas 24:27
You know, something that really stuck with me. I was listening to one of your podcasts with his name was, I met a note here. David Rosch. I think he was like your advisor or something.
Scott Allen 24:41
So So David rush, Dave Rosch was the first guest, john wagon. It was Jon Wergin, who was my dissertation chair. And we were talking about building relationships and community in the classroom. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Great.
Diogo Seixas 24:59
Yeah. No, but listen, he was David, that he said something about, like, "How well are we doing this?" but you guys are talking about about how well we are developing leadership. And I remember that, you know, I was like running outside. And I remember after I heard that I basically blacked out there. No, because that was always seen in my mind like that that got stuck in my mind. And I think that's something I'm always going to take from here. And though it's really it's not just like going to the classroom and teaching her content but like how how are we doing this right like how well how we're making sure that people have been developed and becoming better leaders and better students that they're learning everything that is there. So I anyway, just for whoever's listening, if you want to go back in I think is episode two or three,
Scott Allen 25:46
No, one it's it's episode one. It's Dave Rosch any any said, "I have a fear." He said, "I have a fear that what we're doing isn't making a difference." And, and I started this series with that with that, quote, "I have a fear." Because I have that same fear sometimes. And I think this whole leader development I an episode just dropped today with David Day who's probably the most prolific scholar on leadership development and leader development. And it was just such a joy to have a conversation with him. He's, he wrote a seminal piece in 2000. And so we're almost 20 years. Well, yeah, we are 20 years later. And we have this really cool conversation about what he's learned and how he's thinking about leader and leadership development. But what I love about this topic Diogo is that it's, it's like Mount Everest, and I think we're maybe at base camp. But I have so much fuel for the fact that it's such a beautiful puzzle, and how do we ensure that we're doing it? Well, how do we truly ensure that these millions of dollars are being spent well, that our students time is being spent well, and that we're truly making a difference? Right. Beautiful puzzle, challenging puzzle, challenging puzzle? Because there's so many dimensions?
Diogo Seixas 27:16
Definitely, definitely. And, you know, it's funny, because that that and fit for that came another quote from Ken Robinson, you know, the guy from, um, what's that book?
Scott Allen 27:29
It doesn't Ken Robinson, didn't he have the most watched TED talk of all time? It was about learning or?
Diogo Seixas 27:35
Yes, his TED Talks called, like, "How Schools Kill Creativity" or something like that. Yep. But he was talking about, like, he was sending this case where he went to a conference, and a student came to him and said, "Oh, I have, you know, this very boring professor, you know, like, and he doesn't, he doesn't help me at all, what should I do?" And then he turned a question to the student, you know, like, "what can you do? Because it's easy to just sit there and be passive about this whole thing, in doing nothing. But it comes from you also to find your passion inside the classroom" you know, so that you say that the transformation has to come from both sides, you know, me as a student, now, I'm always like, trying to cooperate with a professor and participate and find ways to be more engaging, because hopefully, I can engage like my classroom also in that whole process, and then helping the professor so it's never just the professor's fault. You know, it's not that the the work, it doesn't come only from the professor, it has to come from a student, also, we all need to take ownership from, you know, having a better classroom. So it's great to see that.
Scott Allen 28:59
Yeah, well, and if you have a professor that creates the right environment, and I'm always I'm always trying for this, I don't always achieve it. It's it's a goal. But how do you create an environment where then yes, we can co create, we can riff off one another. Tony Middlebrooks, he had a saying, and it really stood out to me, it was, "I don't know better, I know different." And so if all of us can kind of come into this space and share what we know, and how we see the world and our perspective on the world, of course, I know some things different than you, and maybe some more about certain topics. But you also know certain certain topics that I have no sense of right? In this conversation. I know very little about engineering. I wish I knew about engineering, but when Pythagorean was introduced in about eighth grade, when that theorem came up on the board and numbers became letters, there was a little guy upstairs that kind of shut down. And I did not have a growth mindset. So It was pretty fixed, then from there on!
Unknown Speaker 30:04
It happens.
Scott Allen 30:05
Yeah, I think I think it's about co-creating that space and creating an environment where, it's not just dependent on that one person, I couldn't agree more. I couldn't agree more.
Diogo Seixas 30:17
He said something very good. Also, Scott, because it's, it's, it's collaboration, you know, and myself, I am guilty about that, that I haven't been more involved with the leadership community, you know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna I'm definitely gonna start doing this more, you know, coming in the Ph. D. program, but it's learning from each other, right? Like, I always tell people that "you don't need to reinvent the wheel, you know, someone else already did that. You can use that and do a little bit better, right? And then you can yourself role environment. So I think like, for whoever's listening, like, don't, don't forget to, you know, ask for help. We always talked about this in the leadership development program, you don't need to do it by yourself, ask for help, because people have done that already. And you can learn from them and do even better.
Scott Allen 31:09
Yep. And add to the add to the body. David de said, He's really excited because there's a growing community of scholars, younger scholars who are helping to work that puzzle of leader development, leadership education. And I'm so excited for you, I, I was so fortunate when I entered my Ph. D program, I tapped into an energy source that was so full. It was a joy to sit around on a Saturday afternoon and read and learn, because what I was reading and what I was learning, I had so much fuel for, and I'm actually writing a paper right now. And some of these books that I purchased at the time. So this is 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004. I, literally this afternoon was opening some of those books because I needed to revisit some of the content, and it was all marked up and they were posted notes that were all ready. And it was just an awesome memory. Because I was so thankful for that learning experience. And so I'm excited for you, we should do an annual check in about your your process through this process. Right? We should do that. And then just, you know, kind of check in. Because for anyone who's listening who's thinking about a Ph. D program or who has who has thought about kind of furthering their education, at least for me, I felt very fortunate because I tapped into a topic and an energy source. That is it's fueled me for 20 years. It really has, and, and you're about to begin, not begin. But it's a new chapter in that educational journey. That's very exciting. And so you, you you started practicing the summer by writing. So tell me a little bit about what you wrote the summer. Oh, yeah. So.
Diogo Seixas 33:04
So that's when this story gets complicated at all. Everything's got, I it's so funny, because I feel like my life goes back and forth. You know, like so, so much. Another reason why I joined the Ph. D. program is because since I, I learned the power of leadership, I knew that I had to be smart, I knew that I had to be an example for people. So I ended up like started reading a bunch of books, right? So I was like, I'm done with one, I started on one and sometimes every 2,3,4 books about leadership, self development, self help, a bunch of things. So when I was in Brazil, probably at the beginning of our company there, we founded our company in 2016, January 2016. Okay, and I was listening to your podcast, and that podcast was from a CEO from a talent hunting company. Okay. And by the time he was he was kind of having this crisis, it was hard to find jobs. And the host asked her like, Sophia, "so is it true that it's been hard to place people in companies right now?" And she said, like, "yes, it's been hard, but not because we don't have many spots make many jobs available, but because the students cannot answer one simple question. And that question was, what is your dream?" And at that point, I was like, man, like, it doesn't make sense, you know, because myself I was always like a big dreamer. I always had like, thousands of imaginary friends. You know, I always it's kind of funny, but
Scott Allen 34:58
Diogo, do you still have imaginary friends. That's the big question. So
Diogo Seixas 35:09
They are partially imaginary and partially real, because I talk with like my, you know, stuffed animals here. So I, that might be imaginary. I
Scott Allen 35:22
will just let that one be there.
Diogo Seixas 35:24
Yeah, yeah, we can cut this just kidding. We don't need to. But so that's like fun fact, I saw ones about ways to reflect, and one off. There's like many ways they can reflect about life. So you can talk to people, you can write it down. You can talk to yourself. But another thing is when you impersonate things. Yeah, so that's when I was like, Okay, I'm not crazy. I'm just like, impersonating objects, so I could reflect about my life. Yeah.
Scott Allen 35:54
Just creativity is all that is. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. That's it.
Diogo Seixas 36:00
So when I saw that question, I couldn't imagine like people not having dreams, like, they don't know what to do with their lives, basically. And I was someone that was always like, trying those theories in my speeches as well. So as much as getting to know people, I was asking them, like, Hey, what's your dream, and then I heard so many good things, like want to be a professor to change the occasional system, I want to be a politician to also change the system. I want to be a doctor to cure cancer. But most people didn't have a dream, or they had the dream of being rich, right? I want to be rich, I want to be successful, which is great. But when you get to that point, what would then you know, like, well, what's after? Yeah. So that I wasn't that ready for probably a year when they got the invitation to come to the US and work with the Leadership Development Program. And then when I got here, I asked my students the same question, you know, "what's your dream?" Do you know what you want to do with your life? And same thing, you know, everybody was lost? Well, it was like, man, like, that's my call to action, you know, like two different countries. Two different realities, two different economies. Yeah, same problems. So I had to do something about it. Because I was only talking about it. I was only telling people, hey, this is the why you should have a dream. But I never taught them how to have a dream. Yeah. So in 2017, I created something called the Dream Lab. So the Dream Lab was a 10 week class where it was like 10 sessions, where I would guide people to this self development thing, you know, we will talk about things that they like, passions, values, that desires and goals and emotions and all kinds of things to kind of help them to figure themselves so they could make more conscious decisions about what they want. Because so far, they're just like doing things that people told them. Their parents is cool when you know that they environment, media, whatever. So I did the dream lab for two years, I had two different groups going through, you know, creating a class. I think that's what your professors called creating a syllabus creating a class design your class.
Scott Allen 38:22
Yeah, well, I love design, right? Yes, design,
Diogo Seixas 38:26
And a lot of things, a lot of things changed in after two years now that I had those two months, I had this two month period of, from my old job in a PhD program, I had nothing to do, I was like, okay, I'm gonna sit down and write this thing. So I can, you know, achieve, I can reach more people outside my environment here. So I wrote that I sent to the editor this week. So actually, yesterday, and now using editing phase, and I got to think about the name and all those small things, which it's harder than I thought it would be, honestly.
Scott Allen 39:09
Oh Yeah. I worked on a book this summer as well with a co author. And yes, I mean, I think the hard part comes when now you're either shopping for publishers or marketing, right? I mean, but that's awesome that you got out of your head and all of that content so that you're at the phase you're in right now. Right? And if I heard you earlier correctly, I mean, this this project sounds a little bit close to what you potentially want to study, motivation, values. So So that's, that's incredible, because you might begin adding to that whole body and base of literature so that people can tap into I did a podcast I'd love for you to listen to this podcast, Diogo, it's Sara Safari. And that's a really cool story. But it's a story about a woman who, I don't know how old she would have been. Maybe it was her late 20s. But she locked in at that moment, and did some incredible. She's doing incredible work. So listen to that podcast, because it's just a really interesting case study of someone who clicks in, and just goes, and it's sad. I think I was probably 32 when I click the first time I taught a class, and I was in the classroom. And that's, that's where I had that moment of, well, this isn't work. "Geez, they're gonna pay me to be here right now?" Okay, you know, and it just clicked. And I think again, I was like, 30, or 31. But I think having that as a as a objective or having that as a vision, or I don't want to set people up to never find what they hope to. But I also think there needs to be some level of intentionality about paying attention to where your energy is to, like you said, what you value. And if you pay attention to all of that, and you have some level of clarity, maybe some of the time when some opportunities present themselves, you'd be more likely to see them. Right?
Diogo Seixas 41:19
Yeah, that's it. I think the thing that I'm most talked about in the book, is to take things from the unconscious mind and bring to your own consciousness. Yeah, you know, to the point where I think we as a generation, we want things to get done as soon as possible. Yeah, like, we just want like things to happen fast. And because of that, sometimes we jump steps off that process of self development. And then think like, if you're making any product, and you're just part of the process, at the end, you're going to have a defective product or a defective product, right? Same thing about life. Like, we need to understand that. This is a process that sometimes it takes longer, sometimes it takes shorter. Yeah, but if we can be more conscious about that, at that point, and I always say like, you know, when you get things done, you're looking down, and just like, you know, doing doing doing doing, the key to this whole process is to stop, look up, evaluate the direction you want to go, and then keep moving forward. Ya know? So that's, that's my main goal with this book, I want people to stop to evaluate what's happening. Now. They go and make a conscious decision of what comes next. Is he gonna work? I don't know. Yeah, honestly, like, we don't know if our choices are going to be the right choices. But we can always take the best with the quite with the choices we make. Right?
Scott Allen 43:05
Exactly. And at least then there's some hope of some intentionality behind it. It was really cool. The other day, I was with my daughters. And somehow this came up it was it was, they'd heard something somewhere about creating a list of things you want to do in life. And so I said to them, "well, I have a list." And, and I hadn't looked at it in probably seven or eight years, but I probably wrote this in 2005-2004. And it was 50 things to accomplish in life. And, you know, some of them had been accomplished now, So I literally, they watched me strike it through. And some things were maybe a little less relevant. And some things I heard it. And I was like, because one of them was have have a coffee or a beer with a mountain climber in France. Just I want to sit and have coffee with a mountain climber and just talk over a beer. And I haven't done that yet. But it refreshed that that's a life experience I want to have. And there's a whole bunch of other things large and small on that list. But at least there's some level of intentionality then behind where we're orienting ourselves. Does that make sense?
Diogo Seixas 44:18
It does, does where where'd that list was like, did you type it in was in our computer?
Scott Allen 44:24
It was it was it was it was a it was in my computer. And it used to be that I would go to it a little more often than I had because like I said, I haven't looked at it in probably five or six years. I just I knew and I remembered that I had it. And I had accomplished some of the things on the list. But it checked me back into some things I'd love to do. So I I'm excited to hear how all of this plays out for you. And I asked I'm sorry, go ahead.
Diogo Seixas 44:57
I was just like I asked like where to put that in because When that's like the first chapter of the book, I talk about journaling, and how important it is like to really write things down, right. And, like I, I started this probably like four years ago. And it's just like, great, because every time I start a new journal, I can always like, Look, again, to my list of things to do. So, the Dream Lab, for example, it started as a note, in a random page in one of my journals, and I have a picture somewhere of that at the note, but he was just saying, like, test your theories with your students in the leadership development program, that one note, you know, probably because of the intentionality or more conscious thinking I put on that. Now, one note note became a book, you know, two, three years later, now, but that's how everything started. You know that that's, that's what I call, that's what I mean about being more conscious about the things that you want to do. Yeah, having a journal, it's a great way to always remind yourself about those things.
Scott Allen 46:07
Yeah. Yeah. There's, there's too many fun things to accomplish in life. And having having a place like a journal. For me, it was a document just on a computer. But having that, again, I think it can serve as a little bit of a north, a true north and the compass for what we want to orient ourselves toward. And so you're coming back in a year. And we can we can talk about the world in 2021. I want to if it's okay with you, I'd love to follow you through this process of going through your PhD and hearing about your adventures hearing about your adventures of the book. And I think that would be a lot of fun if you're open to it.
Diogo Seixas 46:55
Oh, definitely. I'm gonna put on my calendar as soon as soon as we are done with this. Okay.
Scott Allen 47:01
I always close out this podcast by saying, What are you streaming? What are you watching? What are you listening to? What stands out for you DiogoIt's kind of gotcha. Your mind turning lately?
Diogo Seixas 47:14
So my minds turning lately. Uh, so I thought about that question before we came here. And first, I never stopped to streaming friends. That's something that that's how I learned English. I know the whole thing, you know, lines and everything. Like, it's so funny, because every time I watch with someone, they're like, "dude, can you stop repeating the lines? You know?" So I am that kind of person. Honestly, I think that friends teach you a lot about life in general. You know, so, anyway, great, great show. But right now, I was watching a lot This is Us. Have you ever watched that? I have. Yeah. I started watching. This is us. And it's a great show that shows a lot of life. A lot of drama. Also, I'm a crier. So there isn't one episode that I don't cry or that thing. I even had to step back a little bit because I was getting too emotional, I guess. But it's a great show. And then Suits is another one. That was great. And I really, really recommend to people on the podcast speaking. I've listened to a lot of the leadership educators. I've listened a lot to yours. Also, Scott, if I'm not wrong, I watched from Episode 123. And then from nine to 16. Okay, that's so I just haven't watched like from four to eight or fortune is there.
Scott Allen 48:50
So Dan, and Lauren did do a wonderful job on their podcast, that's for sure.
Diogo Seixas 48:56
Definitely do. Yeah. And just general, I love NPR Life Kit. I think that's a great podcast that you learn a bunch of things there. I love learning from life and with life. So they always have like such random things. But it's very, very helpful. Huh.
Scott Allen 49:16
I love it. I love it. Well, Diogo, we will see each other a year from now for sure. I hope to see you before then. But thank you so much for your time today. I really, really appreciate it. Best of luck as you start the PhD. Best of luck as you tap into what it is that you have a passion for. I hope everything with the book comes along beautifully. I look forward to seeing that and be well my friend be well. Thank you.
Diogo Seixas 49:44
Thank you, Scott, thanks for the opportunity. I really enjoy talking to you finally, you know, talking and getting to know each other in a live in their environment. So it was very nice for me also. Thanks a lot again.
Scott Allen 50:00
Oh take care be well.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai