Emilio Iodice is an award-winning author, Presidential historian, executive, decorated American diplomat, and professor. He spent over three decades as a senior executive in the public and private sectors, as an educator, and as a university administrator. He is among the most decorated officers in American history with a gold medal for heroism; a gold medal and silver medal for exemplary service; nominations for the Bronze Medal; and numerous commendations and citations. At age 33, he was named by the President of the United States to the prestigious Senior Executive Service as a Charter Member. He was the youngest career public official to reach this distinction. After the Foreign Service, he was named Vice President of Lucent Technologies in charge of operations in numerous countries. In 2007, he was named Director and Professor of Leadership of the John Felice Rome Center (JFRC) of Loyola University Chicago. He served as Director until 2016.
Publications by Professor Iodice
Quotes From This Episode
Emilio Iodice is an award-winning author, Presidential historian, executive, decorated American diplomat, and professor. He spent over three decades as a senior executive in the public and private sectors, as an educator, and as a university administrator. He is among the most decorated officers in American history with a gold medal for heroism; a gold medal and silver medal for exemplary service; nominations for the Bronze Medal; and numerous commendations and citations. At age 33, he was named by the President of the United States to the prestigious Senior Executive Service as a Charter Member. He was the youngest career public official to reach this distinction. After the Foreign Service, he was named Vice President of Lucent Technologies in charge of operations in numerous countries. In 2007, he was named Director and Professor of Leadership of the John Felice Rome Center (JFRC) of Loyola University Chicago. He served as Director until 2016.
Publications by Professor Iodice
Quotes From This Episode
Note: Voice to text transcriptions are about 90% accurate.
Scott Allen 0:11
It is a cold and snowy day in Cleveland, Ohio. So my mind and our conversation is going to take us to somewhere else somewhere with incredible wine. Incredible Food, incredible history. I imagine it's very sunny there. I imagine it's in the 70s and 80s. The beaches are beautiful. And I'm thinking about Italy. And today's guest is Emilio Iodice. And he has many things. He is a professor, he is an author. He has the number one book for nonfiction on the Wall Street Journal's list right now. And we're gonna explore that. But Emilio, you, I'm so excited for this conversation and to get to know you a little bit. So maybe tell our listeners a little bit about you. And then we'll jump in.
Emilio Iodice 1:49
Thank you, Scott, thanks for the invitation. I'm just a kid from New York City. Born and raised in the Bronx educated at Fordham University, did my graduate work at the City University of New York and George Washington University. Great. I studied economics was an economist for the US government worked also for the Executive Office of the President through a number of administrations. So went into the diplomatic corps, made the list of ambassadors as my final posting, which was in Paris, and went into the private sector worked for a major multinational as VP made a lot of money, which is a good thing. Then went out to teach, which I always wanted to do. It's tauught leadership, Trinity College, and then it became the director of the Loyola University Chicago, Rome Center, and also taught leadership there. I teaching leadership here in Rome, which is wonderful. And you're right, it's sunny and beautiful, and the food is great. I've been a best selling author now for about a decade, I've written about 10 books. In my latest book, the Commander in Chief is, as you said, the number one bestseller on the Wall Street Journal nonfiction list. And in fact, it's surpassed the memoirs and stories of major luminaries who have published books just recently. So it's a very interesting time and the book is successful. And the book was a lot of fun to write. And it's one that's being used extensively also in universities right now.
Its being used extensively now in universities, as part of leadership courses, plus courses that deal with political history, especially American history, because the book is about presidential history, and the leadership lessons that we learn from US presidents. And that book, by the way, is also an Italian and both in English and other languages. It's being used as a primer for prime ministers and chiefs of state in democracies and that's how to run a democracy. How to be a good president, Prime Minister of a democracy of a freedom loving nation.
Scott Allen 4:51
Emilio I'm, so I want to get to the book I but you are a prolific author. Can you take us through that process, just to were three of your approaches two or three, two or three things, recommendations you'd have for others about writing, what is it that works for you?
Unknown Speaker 5:11
What works for me is ideas. I love to come up with new ideas. And I explore new ideas with people, especially in the field of leadership. And my specialty is to use lessons of history, to teach us what we need to do today to be good leaders, and how those lessons from history will help us deal with problems of the future, challenges of the future. And I think this is really, really important, especially now with what our country will be facing in the future in the near future.
Scott Allen 5:49
Well, let's let's jump into let's jump into some themes from the book. What were some what were some insights, some aha eyes that you experienced in the process of doing the research and doing the writing for the book?
Emilio Iodice 6:01
Well, what I wanted to do was explore, first of all, what were the major characteristics of our most successful presidents great, and how they showed those characteristics through decisions and actions on their part. But I also discovered that none of our presidents, our major leaders, have been saints in White House at the same time, we're not, we're not tolerating any sinners, but none of them have really been saints. And we have to take that in mind and also understand the context of the time. So I write about that in the book I write about the shortcomings and weaknesses, as well as their, their strength and power, their power to persuade, to communicate, and to make critical decisions at difficult times. So the themes run through the concept of how important character is all the way to the ability to communicate at all levels. And I tried to show this through a, not all of our 46, 45 presidents. Now we have a 46th one coming up. But I show it through, I would say about half of them, who I felt were the most indicative in terms of having those basic qualities that we really need in leaders, and it's a primer, it's a primer and a classic for leadership in general.
Scott Allen 7:34
Yeah. Talk about talking about character who, who are some individuals that that based on your research really emerged for you as well. They were all men, men of character, who, of course, they were all not perfect, all of us are human, but who emerged for you as individuals that stood out?
Emilio Iodice 7:54
The key men of character, right, that I would say that we can say are are examples, of course we begin with Lincoln.
Scott Allen 8:03
Okay.
Emilio Iodice 8:04
Lincoln was the icon and was the stereotype. In other words, those things that we attribute to Lincoln, in terms of qualities were real. They weren't just image. They were real. He was humble. He had emotional intelligence. He was honest. He had a high sense of integrity, and also had a great difficulty with telling something that wasn't true. So these qualities of character absolutely essential, because they set the tone, they set the example it with followers, and you know, when it comes to followers, a president also has to develop a brain trust. Yeah. brain trust becomes contagious in terms of character. a president who is honest, who is strong, who is determined as a decision maker. Well, he's the example and sets the tone for his cabinet.
Scott Allen 9:04
Yeah. So Lincoln, Lincoln stands out. Who else?
Emilio Iodice 9:09
Theodore Roosevelt.
Scott Allen 9:10
Okay.
Emilio Iodice 9:11
Also, probably, this is why Roosevelt, Jefferson and Washington and Lincoln are on Mount Rushmore. It was easy to put those four up there. But you see with Theodore Roosevelt, here you have the 360 degree individual in the White House. Here's a man who reads a book a day, who was written 35 of his own books, was a conservationist, who's a linguist he spoke a number of different languages. He was a technologist. He loved new technology, a visionary talked about/wrote about the future constantly, and was a solid and clear decision maker, and was a splendid politician both on domestic and international affairs. So you see theater Roosevelt really was the complete president, in many ways. And I recommend anybody who's interested in leadership and presidential history. To read more about him. There are a number of great books that have been written about him. And it, it's fascinating. It's a fascinating. So Theodore Roosevelt is another example.
Scott Allen 10:24
Well, any any, I would love for you to define 360 degree
Emilio Iodice 10:28
360 degree I talk about, again, having character having the ability to communicate having energy, and enthusiasm, and having the ability to persuade others. You know, a president really has to be constantly selling concepts, ideas, and be able to persuade people of at all levels. So Roosevelt had that ability. And also he had this amazing ability to search for new ideas. He was the first president to write in an automobile. He put telephones in the White House. Well, he was the first president to fly a plane, he said in the Wright brothers plane even. And it crashed, by the way, and he knew it was going to crash, but he took the risk. And of course, he dug the Panama Canal. So if you see a man who understands military history, he was a great commander in chief. He used the bully pulpit. He won the Nobel Prize, by the way for peace. And ultimately, he was given the Congressional Medal of Honor posthumously. So that's what I call a 360. degree president.
Scott Allen 11:50
I love it. I love it. So we got this, this solid foundation of character, we've got this 360 concept of the 360 degrees. And then you also discuss communication at all levels. Now. You've seen this. You've been in the White House as this is unfolding.
Emilio Iodice 12:07
Yes.
Scott Allen 12:07
Talk about communication at all levels. I, I'm excited to hear about your experiences and your perspectives there.
Emilio Iodice 12:14
Well, by that I mean that anyone could understand the message of a president. And this is where I felt John Kennedy had this magnificent quality this, we call it charisma. But it's the ability for the people at all levels from from someone who has a hard hat working class, individual, like some of the my relatives and friends who came over from Italy. They love John Kennedy, because they could understand what he was talking about. It was simple, it was clear, but talk with the Wall Street broker, so could the bishop as so could the housewife, he could understand clearly the message. And the vision as well, the vision. This is really important. Ronald Reagan had this quality, Reagan cast this vision of where America should be going, how it should get there, as well. And this vision was something that people could could feel they could touch. That's what we talk about when we say communication at all levels.
Scott Allen 13:28
Well, I think of going back to Lincoln row row, real quickly, but in some of what I've read about Lincoln is he could do that beautifully. He could stand in front of a group of farmers and help them understand a complex issue, because he was so brilliant at communicating in a way that worked at all levels, right?
Emilio Iodice 13:49
Absolutely. Lincoln was amazing. You know, he was really a prairie lawyer. So he came from, from the frontier. But he was able to live in Illinois as a successful lawyer, and then also transformed himself into a chief executive. And he was he relished the opportunity to talk to anyone, even his adversaries. There's a legendary story and I haven't been able to, to check it out. But Lincoln went to see his mother. Actually, his stepmother who raised him right after he was elected, he felt he was he needed to do this. I believe she lived in Kentucky. So he goes there, and he sees her, and he pays homage to her. And I know he took care of her provider and income for this poor woman for the rest of her life. And as he leaves he meets a boyhood friend, you know that Kentucky was a slave state. Now, Lincoln is president and Lincoln extends his hand. To his boyhood friend, and the man says, "I'll never shake your hand. I hate you. And I never will agree with anything that that you agree with."
Scott Allen 15:12
Yeah.
Emilio Iodice 15:12
Lincoln said, "you know, I'm willing to die for your right to be wrong."
Scott Allen 15:18
Wow.
Emilio Iodice 15:19
So imagine the strength in a phrase like that. And Lincoln realized that, at the end, we had to bind up the nation's wounds, even that part of the nation that we felt were wrong. And he had to fight with them. But we had to bring them all back together again, as one people. So he had the ability to talk with the head of the Herald Tribune, on the same level as he did with the, with the farmer who would knock on his door in the White House, and asked for help and advice. He was amazing. In that really amazing.
Scott Allen 16:03
So Emilio, let's let's go to let's go to decision making for a little bit. And I'd love to get your insights on this. Because it's, it's difficult when you're in a role, like president to be considered a person of character by all, there were factions of people who would not in their lived experience, see Lincoln, your example, just now, as a man of character, right? The The young man in Kentucky that you were just speaking of. So it's, it's challenging, because these individuals are faced with decisions that are in some cases, horrible decisions to have to make. They involve life and death. They invovle, they involve death of many it that the benefit of the whole in some cases. So how do you think about that? What did you What did you find out about on that front? Or based on your experience? What have you witnessed? And what have you seen when it comes to these really gnarly, terrible, complex decisions that these individuals have to make?
Emilio Iodice 17:08
These decisions for my experience are not made capriciously? Yeah. And this is what I learned about America, and especially our American leaders of leaders that have to send people into harm's way. They think about it carefully. I won't mention the name. Yeah. But I'll mention a case where a bombing had to happen. It was a strike against the dictator, to teach a lesson. And at the time, our chief executive was concerned, not so much with with the building that was going to be attacked. But number one that that particular leader was out of that building at the time. And secondly, that is little bloodshed would be, would be shed as possible. The guards that guarded the palace, it had to be attacked, when those guards were changing, so that there was an interval of perhaps minutes when there were fewer people there. So, this was part of the thinking going on, before this very important decision that was made. But But let's go even further than that. That was that that was one thing. But let's let's go into Harry Truman's mind. I did a lot of research on this just recently, and it's an article that's on my website at www.iodicebooks.com. Great. It's going to be published in the Journal of Values Based Leadership very shortly. Harry Truman was vice president for 80 days. And he knew very few things about what was actually happening in terms of top secrets of World War II, including the Manhattan Project, he was briefed on it. As soon as Franklin Roosevelt died.
Scott Allen 19:17
Wow. Okay.
Emilio Iodice 19:18
And here, this man in April, April 12 1945, becomes president. And let us then three months later in August, with Europe having been vanquished, so we had V-E Day, but now we had the war in the Pacific that was still raging. This was August 1945. This man was in office now, three months. And Okinawa had occurred, which was one of the bloodiest battles in the in the Pacific. And his advisors come to him and say, Mr. President, we have to invade you Japan, we need a million soldiers to do it. Half of them may become casualties. Also, we may kill millions of Japanese and house to house fighting. The kamikaze attacks had a great deal of influence on Truman and his military leaders at the time. And the head of the of the kamikazes. This this general at the time said that 20 million Japanese would commit suicide if the Allies invaded Japan. So here's this man now who has been given the atom bomb as his his latest weapon. And he asked his advisors, if we use this on the Japanese/sue for peace, will they agree to peace? And they said, We hope so. But we're not sure. So ultimately, he made the decision to drop the first atom bomb. And he waited an asked the Japanese after that, would they agree to peace? No, no.
Scott Allen 21:24
Wow, I didn't know this part of the story.
Emilio Iodice 21:28
He had to drop the second one, before the Emperor was convinced that they could no longer continue to fight. So I wrote about this in the book. And what a difficult decision it was for Truman. And he lived with it. And he, he knew that he the genie was out of a bottle with atomic energy. But he was the same president, who also created the Atomic Energy Commission for the peaceful use of atomic energy in the world. And Truman made some very, very important decisions, he should really should be ranked among the 10 greatest. He created NATO. He, of course, he was the man who implemented the United Nations, and so forth. So when it came to making decisions, he wasn't afraid. He listened to his advisors didn't always agree with them. But he listened carefully. And he made his decisions based on facts. And I put myself in his shoes. As I was writing the book. And I felt this was a real commander in chief. And with the best possible information he could receive, he made these critical decisions.
Scott Allen 22:52
Well, I'm hearing character I'm hearing communicator. I'm hearing decision maker. Are there other other attributes of these effective commanders in chief that stood out for you and your research?
Emilio Iodice 23:08
I'd like to dwell for a moment on what I would call emotional intelligence. Emotional intelligence is complex. But our greatest leaders had it. Take Franklin Roosevelt, for instance, Roosevelt, the two Roosevelts Theodore, and Franklin had, in my view, enormous emotional intelligence. And by by that, I mean, self restraint. Number one, yeah. They, they, under very difficult conditions. They held on to their faculties. You can imagine FDR and I write about that in the book, his paralysis, you know, so few people dwell on the fact during his time that he couldn't get up from a table. He couldn't go to the bathroom alone. He had to be helped, even couldn't get into bed by himself. So this man was paralyzed from the waist down. But those people who dealt with him, never dwelt on that particular issue, because of his strength of character, and his emotional intelligence, that was something that was a byproduct of his existence. But it wasn't his existence. It wasn't what made him who he was. It was only a part of his character. And it was one of those things that gave him empathy, and compassion, which is also part of emotional intelligence. I'll give you an example of this kind of power. Where even under the most difficult conditions. A president stays focused in the movie, Pearl Harbor. There's a clip and i and i i've tried to research to find out if this actually happened. And in a number of books that I found, they say that it had, but let me describe it, assuming that it did.
Scott Allen 25:10
Sure.
Emilio Iodice 25:11
Right after Pearl Harbor, we have the declaration of war of Nazi Germany, against the United States and also a fascist Italy. And now, FDR brings around the table, his military leaders. And he says, I want to report on where we are. Half of the fleet was gone. And Pearl Harbor, so specifically, is decimated, we can't make more in the Pacific, according to them. Our our soldiers are not trained. We neglected for years to give them the proper training for war. And now we need millions of recruits. And yet, they're not ready. We don't have the material. We don't have the tanks. We don't have the artillery. We don't have the planes to fight a war. So they implied to the President, perhaps would it be better to sue for peace? Roosevelt and said, "No, I want to bomb Tokyo." And they said, "Mr. President, that's impossible." He said, "I want to bomb Tokyo, I want to bring the war to the Japanese. I want them to know what they've done. And that they will not get away with this, they will pay for it." And they said, "Mr. President, we cannot do it. It's impossible." So FDR, literally grabbed the two sides of his chair, and he raised him up himself up, and he stood before them. And said, "Listen, if I can do this, you can bomb Tokyo, and you can win this war." So the power of that man made an impression on these these men who had to carry out the great responsibility of victory. And because of him, and of course, the team that he built, and the people that he selected-MacArthur, Eisenhower, Marshall-to run our war, we were successful, because it is great brain trust, and his emotional intelligence. So that's another example of how emotional intelligence plays into all of this. And it is so very important for a president. And I'll leave you with one last thought. Emotional intelligence also requires that a president not dwell on revenge, political revenge, that not only diminishes the office, but also diminishes the individual. There was probably no president, who was criticized more, even unjustly by a by any measure than Abraham Lincoln. Lincoln was constantly, constantly criticized by the press, by his equals and in the political establishment, by his own party. Sure, constantly, all the way up to the end, including having a daily letter arrive, threatening assassination. So here's Lincoln, who doesn't care about revenge. And getting back at those people who said, so many lies about him, the most he would do was was write a letter that he was going to send it to them, and then put it in a drawer and never mail it. But he had the strength of character, to be wise enough to not waste energy on that kind of activity. And not all presidents have been that's strong, as Abraham Lincoln was.
Scott Allen 29:17
So complex, so difficult, right? I mean, I also think of Mandela the stories of Mandela after he assumed the presidency, and him, you know, extending an olive, olive branch. And the importance of that, again, you can go to the team of rivals with Lincoln, you can go to some of these other individuals who had the ability to rise above all of that noise for the betterment of the whole, But to your point, so incredibly difficult to do so incredibly difficult, especially in this in this context, and I'd love to get your perspective there. So, at least how I'm I'm kind of reading the context right now, and I'm going to Maybe go about 50,000 feet. And then we're specifically speaking of United States. So so we've got we've got digitization, globalization, we've got some some systemic racism issues in our, in our urban communities, we've got many of our, our, our rural communities are losing jobs left and right Walmart, maybe the largest employer in town or the prison. And we've got a media that is outwardly biased, and literally creating their own narratives about reality. How does a president in this context begin to...How does an individual work above all of that noise? What are some thoughts you have? on that question? How does someone President Elect Biden? How does he succeed? If you were to give him three or four pieces of advice? What would you suggest he consider based on your knowledge of history?
Emilio Iodice 31:56
Well, first of all, I would say, cancel his Twitter account. That would be the first thing I would suggest I don't think it's a it's a good thing to do. And I don't think it's a good way to communicate. But then again, I may be a dinosaur. In that regard. I don't believe a president who has to focus on bigger and more important issues, should have time to get up at three o'clock in the morning to tweet to send out messages to a base of people that voted for him. I don't think that's necessary and required. So that's my first element of advice.
Scott Allen 32:39
Sure.
Emilio Iodice 32:40
The second one would be, I think, to sincerely try to reach out to those people who didn't vote for him. Yeah. At all levels, and to communicate with them and try to understand better what problems they face. And why him and his party have not been able to address those issues in particular, I'll give you a quick example. When I was growing up as a kid, my father was a union man, he was a longshoreman. And he was a devoted Democrat. And why? Because he said, the Democratic Party is for the working person. And anybody who is a union person should of course vote for the Democrats, because the democrats relate to them. They relate to the common person. My father used to say, the democrats are a big circus, they they encompass everybody, but especially those people who are the the middle and lower classes. Well, I'm not sure that's the case anymore. Reading the New York Times and elsewhere, the image of the democratic party today is that of the elites, those people who were extremely well educated, wealthy, live in bubbles, like most of us and don't face the same challenges as others, especially financial challenges. Well, I think we need a reevaluation within the Democratic Party, and within the presidency of how we deal with those people, those people feel disenfranchised. So that would be my second point to him. Keep focusing on that, and third, begin showing a sense of not only compassion, which I think is very, very important, but empathy, empathy for for everyone. This is really, really essential. I saw a clip that was very moving where he was talking with some Muslim women. And he said "during my presidency, no one will be excluded, and that your faith will be as respected as anyone else." I think he needs to pursue this in great depth, I would suggest that he had a religious advisor in the White House, as well as an historian and a scientific adviser. These roles which have been discarded over the years, are absolutely essential to have a well functioning White House. That's clue clearly in tuned with the direction of the country. And I could tell you chapter and verse what each and every one of them should be doing. But that's, the advice I give to the president right now those three or four points,
Scott Allen 35:46
Well, it's it's a, it's a complex role, incredibly complex, probably the most complex role
Emilio Iodice 35:57
It is, and I lay that out in the beginning of the book, the role of the President of the United States as not only commander in chief but chief of state, chief of his party, chief of diplomacy, a chief of the public interest, the chief legislator of our country as well. All these roles are in one particular office. And they're very, very challenging, as you said, in very complicated. Neither, neither one of those roles can be taken for granted, but the Constitution and the people of the country have entrusted themselves to that one particular office, which is the only office that all the people of the country vote for.
Scott Allen 36:46
Professor. Good stuff. I'm so excited to have had this conversation with you. And, and I've learned a lot and and I want to go read about Teddy Roosevelt, I'm going to after we're done, I'm going to get on Amazon. And I'm going to order a biography of Teddy Roosevelt, because I want to explore that further. Now, what are you reading? What are you streaming? What are you listening to? That I can share with our listeners?
Emilio Iodice 37:15
Well, right now, I'm, unfortunately, I read a whole series of books. And I'm actually writing a new book. Well, let me tell you about the new book, because the new book has had a lot to do with what I've been reading. I've been reading a lot about World War II. And it's amazing, the fertile ground that world war two has left us with so much anecdotal information. So I decided to write a book based on true stories. That's really a novel. And the book is called Liberation, it'll come out in January. And I hope it's as successful as my last book. But I read a whole series of memoirs of people who went through World War two in particular, soldiers, German soldiers, and Allied soldiers. And it's amazing how these two groups thought the same way had the same fears, had so much I had so many similar experiences, and all one of the same thing. They wanted to go back home? Yep. So I read their stories. And I've read the stories of also people who were partisans in World War Two, who fought for justice and truth against fascism and Nazi ism, tremendously courageous people. They'll be featured in my new book. And their story, which is, as I said, comes from real life. I received the skeleton of those stories from the protagonists themselves from the people who actually experienced it, and I fleshed it out in the form of a historical novel. So I suggest that more people, especially young people, try to understand the trauma of war, what war is all about. Because what we're experiencing right now with this virus is quite similar. And the way we're attacking it now with the vaccine is very similar to the Manhattan Project. And it we're devoting the same kind of effort, resources and spirit, and we're going to be successful and next year is going to be a very important year for America and the world.
Scott Allen 39:50
I agree. I agree. Well, sir, thank you so much for your time today. It was a pleasure meeting you. I'm excited to have you on again after the new book comes out, everyone, you can find all kinds of resources about Emilio in the show notes. So be sure to look there. And thanks for the work that you do. We really, really appreciate it. Thank you.
Emilio Iodice 40:13
We have to work to change the world. Scott. Thank you for all that you're doing as well. Thank you.
Scott Allen 40:20
Okay. Have a great day, sir.
Emilio Iodice 40:21
Thank you. You too. Thanks, Scott.
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