The Ethically Immoral Podcast
The Ethically Immoral Podcast is a program dedicated to long-form conversations with poets, spoken word artists, authors, and creatives who use language as a tool for truth-telling, healing, and resistance. Hosted by Mike Payne, the show travels beyond the typical interview to explore the personal histories, artistic philosophies, and cultural contexts that shape the voice of the Creatives we welcome.
It’s not just about poetry or performance — it’s about the people behind the pen. We talk about identity, healing, joy, frustration, and the journey of becoming. Some moments are deep, others are funny, but all of them are authentic. If you’re someone who values storytelling, vulnerability, and good conversation, this space was created and cultivated for you.
The Ethically Immoral Podcast
Volume Six: Chapter Seventeen - Our Conversation with Kestral Gaian
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Our guest this week is a Scotland, United Kingdom–based writer, poet, playwright, and author. Kestral Gaian, who is the author of four books, including their most recent poetry collection, Tubelines: The Poetry of Motion, available now via their website and wherever books are sold.
In our conversation, we trace Kestral’s parallel paths through creativity and technology — including a lengthy career in software and tech — and how those two worlds increasingly collide. That collision leads us into a thoughtful discussion of artificial intelligence, creative labor, and authorship, sparked by Kestral’s project justsayno.ai. We talk candidly about over-reliance on AI, creative disruption, and the growing concern that AI may help people produce writing without necessarily helping them become writers.
From there, we move into Kestral’s creative history: starting to write at the age of five, transitioning from storytelling into poetry, and grappling early on with questions of identity and representation. Growing up under the shadow of the UK’s Section 28 — legislation that erased queer stories from schools and libraries — profoundly shaped what felt possible to write. We talk about silence, visibility, and the long-term effects of being told certain stories shouldn’t exist.
The conversation then turns to Tubelines, a poetry collection written over five years and inspired by fifty encounters on the London Underground. We talk about people-watching, movement, routine, and the quiet humanity that reveals itself in shared spaces.
Contact Kestral:
Instagram: @kes.tr.al Website: kestr.al
Recorded Spoken Word Performances Featured Include:
Toni Payne – Let the Headline Scream
Instagram: @tonipaynequotes Website: tonipayneonline.com
Meccamorphosis – Thrift Shop
Instagram: @meccamorphosis Website: meccamorphosis.com
Asia Samson – As I Am
Instagram: @theasiaproject Website: theasiaproject.com
Christopher Diaz: Again
Instagram: @lightbulbchris Website: christopherdiazcreates.com
Matthew Cuban: Shotgun
Instagram: @matthewcuban Website: matthewcuban.com
