Jason White // The Art of Calling your Shot

From establishing the Nike brand in China to untold stories about Kobe Bryant, marketing guru Jason White guides us through his remarkable journey in the advertising industry. Through Jason’s experiences including serving as the Global Head of Marketing at Beats by Dre and his current role as the Chief Marketing Officer of Curaleaf—one of the largest cannabis companies worldwide—we get to hear some of the most fascinating details of Jason’s expansive career.

Transcript

Jason: The strategy at Beats was never to like push an idea on talent. It's like we're going to figure this out together because we want you to love it cause we want you to push it out. We want you to own it. We want you to take pride in it. So like it was great like always working with Lebron cause he was like pretty clear on what he was going to do, what he wasn't, what he liked and it was like we knew kind of how to show up.

Owen: Welcome to the Power of 2 where we explore the stories of unique individuals to understand how they define success and use that blueprint to lead an exponential life. I'm your co-host, Owen Baim, alongside my brother Ethan, and today we are joined by marketing guru, Jason White. Growing up on the East coast, Jason had the childhood dream of creating Nike commercials.

However, his career started humbly selling soap in Colorado Springs before transitioning to work on the Tide brand as the account supervisor at Saatchi and Saatchi. His journey then led him to running the M&M business at BBDO one of the world's most prestigious advertising agencies. Jason's long and illustrious career continued at Wieden+Kennedy, where his dream came to fruition and earned the opportunity to produce Nike commercials.

His knowledge and passion for culture presented him with the chance to lead all communications in China where he defined "Just Do It" in the Chinese market in addition to developing the Beijing Olympic campaign for Nike. Yet after two stints in China, Jason's ambition to trailblaze his own path, led him to a position as the head of marketing at Beats by Dre.

During this five-year tenure at Beats, Jason had the pleasure of working alongside visionaries such as Dr. Dre, Jimmy Iovine, Kobe Bryant, Serena Williams, Eminem, and various other luminaries where he produced viral and globally impactful campaigns such as the Straight Outta Compton campaign and LeBron's Re-Established campaign.

Following his time at Beats, Jason decided it was time to tackle and influence a new industry, the cannabis industry. As chief marketing officer of Curaleaf, one of the largest cannabis companies in the world, Jason has set out to define his legacy in a new, evolving and mysterious industry. In this episode, we discuss the role of mentors, emerging marketing channels such as the new social media platform TikTok, the excellence of Kobe Bryant and the personal stories Jason shared with him, alongside much more.

Additionally, as a black man in the cannabis industry, Jason discusses his role in the social justice fight for those that are disproportionately affected by prohibition and the criminalization of cannabis. This week on the Power of 2 podcast, Jason White.

Ethan: Hey, what's going on everybody? I'm Ethan Baim, here with my brother Owen, and welcome to the Power of 2. Today we're joined by the incredible Jason White. Jason, thank you for coming on the show. 

Jason: Thank you for having me. It's nice to be here. 

Ethan: Yeah so we just, you know, I know we were just chatting briefly. You started on the East coast, moved to the West, then you had some experience overseas, came back, then did a second stint overseas.

Jason: Yup. 

Ethan: But we really just wanted to start, I guess where right after college, where you started as a media planner for Safeguard Soap, if that's correct. 

Jason: That is correct. Your research is accurate, not so glamorous

Ethan: But that's part of your journey. 

Jason: I loved it. I loved it. It was, a chance to really, really understand media. You know, that was like me and an Excel spreadsheet and that was it. 

Ethan: Yeah. 

Jason: Well, I was playing like test markets in Colorado. And you really learn the core core pieces of media and the core science behind it as well. and then you also really got insight into packaged goods marketing and just how they think about everything from dropping a coupon or what it does to your share and like all just the real, real science of marketing. 

Ethan: Yeah. And, I know, you know, soon after you got out of college, when you were in your early to mid-twenties, you were working for Saatchi and Saatchi and BBDO and one of the inflection points in your career, or something that really stood out to me, was towards the end of your stint at Saatchi and Saatchi when you made that campaign for Tide and it ended up not testing well and sort of got killed after you dumped a ton of work into that.

Can you talk to that a little bit? 

Jason: So, Tide was at a really interesting point. Number one, brands like a $2 billion brand, P&G's, number one brand for sure, and they wanted--we had really worked hard to get them to want to make more emotional advertising. You know, we had done this mom campaign for a very long time, was very successful, but it was time to sort of move beyond this functional, like getting stains out kind of thing.

And we were launching Tide with Downey, which was a new product, and you'd never seen fabric softener in a detergent before. So we were like, let's, let's go for it, you know? And we had a really big, big positioning for Tide. It was super emotional. And, you know, we brought on this big director named Gerard de Thame.

We went to London and we shot it in London, and it was like, it's expensive production. And it was a beautiful piece of work, really, really. The whole concept was, you see this child laying in bed and the Tooth Fairy is like flying through the house. So you're like the camera POV is of the Tooth Fairy.

So you're flying through this house and then once in a while you cut to a wide shot, you see the Tooth Fairy. Tooth Fairy lands on the kid's pillow to do, to exchange the coin for the tooth, and the pillow is so soft, the Tooth Fairy falls asleep. So the kid wakes up in the morning and sees the Tooth Fairy, which isn't supposed to happen.

And it was all about like the, the softness of Tide and Downey. It was a beautiful piece. And it didn't test, you know, in all the ways it's supposed to test and they killed it and I just looked around and, you know, my boss fought for it, then my boss's boss fought for it, and then the ECD of the company fought for it and they're all wonderful people.

But at the end of the day we caved, you know, and, and the client went in another direction and I just felt--and I was young, I was like 25 or something--and I just felt like if, if this is how work dies here, then I think I need to go somewhere else. I need to see another extreme. 

Ethan: Yeah. 

Jason: And I loved Saatchi and that was a great time. I just wanted to know what like the super, you know, almost like militant creative shops were like, and like how hard they fought for work and how aligned they were with clients. It was just a different, a chance to, to go move in and try something else. And it was important to me to get out quickly and try something new.

Ethan: So I was, I was sort of wondering, how do you strike that balance of, you know--something that you believed in and you incubated for all that time and something you truly believe in--how do you strike the balance between believing in what you made and external validation? How do you know when they're right versus when you're right?

Jason: Well, I guess the one thing I would say before even answering that is like now, like in hindsight, like shit dies all the time. I was a little honorous about that, but I was young and I just had principals. You know? I think finding the balance, it really depends on where you work and I think that's why it's so important, especially earlier in a career, to choose the right places to work because, you know, there's, the people you surround yourself with that can really kind of help you understand that balance of like, what's great work, what's not, what still needs to be massaged or when you're just wrong about something. And I've been very lucky. I've had mentor to mentor, to mentor, to mentor that has given me the room to make mistakes, but also the room to find my voice.

Owen: Yeah. So you said you wouldn't have been able to get to where you are today without professional mentors such as Susan Credle, Morgan Flatley, and Rebecca van Dyck. 

Jason: Yeah. 

Owen: Can you explain to our young audience the importance of a mentor and how it has affected your career?

Jason: You know, I think mentors are invaluable.

I think--I've never had the like, you know, walk up to someone and say, "will you be my mentor?" Which people have said to me, and it's a little awkward. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't. I've always very organically got into mentor-mentee relationships. And I mean, it's, it's has shaped my entire career.

You know, I would add Dave Luhr to that list--who's the president of Wieden+Kennedy, or chairman of Wieden+Kennedy now-- and they're just, they shape everything like Morgan Flatley, who's now the CMO of McDonald's, she and I shared an office. So for the first year we share an office I worked for her, so I heard everything she did while I was doing my work.

So it was like I was getting double the hours, you know, I was learning and listening and working. And then the second year we shared an office together, she got promoted and was working on another piece of business and I got promoted into her job. So I was hearing, but entirely different business, while I was doing the business I watched her do. So it was like I got, I got four years out of two, you know, and got to really excel. She also said I smelled like alcohol all the time.

Again, I was like 22. To this day--I just had dinner with her last week and-- she still makes fun of me. She's like, "you stunk."

Ethan: In your young 20s living in New York City, come on. 

Jason: It's your 20s in New York, what are you gonna do? 

Ethan: So, I guess we just talked a little bit about the role that a mentor plays in success, but I want to talk about another potential factor that I know is highly debated. You were, you were an honor roll student as senior in high school. 

Jason: Wow, how do you know that?

Ethan: Had to know it, had to know it. Senior year of high school you were an honor roll student; so does academic excellence play a large role in career success or are there other more intangible traits that come into play? 

Jason: Yes and yes. So for me growing up, the rule in our house was if your grades are good, you got carte blanche, right?

So. I can play whatever sports I wanted. Within reason I could kind of come and go. Obviously we had curfews and stuff, but if your grades were really, really good, that was the kind of the key to the castle and I think with that instilled in my brother and I was just the, the value of education, you know? In a, in a roundabout way, what my parents were saying was this is the most important thing in your life is to have a great education.

So--and I think that that has been very beneficial to me and opened a lot of doors, or at least not closed doors, you know? But I'm a, I'm a firm believer in life experience over educational experience, but I think there's a combination there. Like my parents, we fought most of my twenties. We fought about me going to get my MBA.

My brother has his MBA, my dad has an MBA. My mom has a masters she's a teacher, and I was like, I'm not going, you know, I, I love what I do and it's advertising. It's about creative gut and instinct and it wasn't an MBA required thing. Their whole thing was, well, prepare for what might be next. Get, you know, like, make sure you leave yourself, opportunities, all that. But for me, it was like nah, and I didn't want to do that. So, I would much more valued just grinding and getting work experience and try new shit and like just getting like just incredible work experience and that's what, that's what fueled me.

I loved it. I love working all night and just like going for it. 

Ethan: Yeah. 

Owen: All right, so we're going to transition this a little bit to your time at Wieden+Kennedy. Obviously when you were 12-13 years old, you had a dream of making Nike commercials. You ended up pursuing this dream when you were about 28 years old going and working at Wieden+Kennedy, and making all these unbelievable campaigns and advertisements for Nike.

One of the things you said at Wieden+Kennedy is walk in stupid every day. Can you explain the significance of that and what that means? 

Jason: Yeah. So, so Wieden has quite a few kind of -isms, if you will. That's one of them and I think what walk-in stupid really means is, every day you don't, you don't want to rely on what you think, you know, you know? Every day you want to look at work with fresh eyes, you want to look at the consumer with fresh eyes, look at insights with fresh eyes, and you don't want to assume that you know something about a category, an industry, a client, a person, a creative, whatever. But you really want to keep your, your eyes and ears open to the world, open to a message that might be there.

That might be the thing that, that is different and, and you know--like when you, when you're used to seeing things the same way, you miss great ideas, you miss disruption. Right? And that's really, the difference. That's, that's why you walk in stupid. 

Ethan: And before we move on--and there's a ton, we're gonna jump into with Wieden+Kennedy--but, you played football in high school, right? 

Jason: I did. 

Ethan: Yes. So one thing that you, talked about is having a football mentality. 

Jason: Yep. 

Ethan: Can you explain what that means? 

Jason: You know it's funny, our company was just acquired by Curaleaf, and I was just meeting with my new team and as I've done, every time I've started a new job, I told them, "think of me as a high school football player, and you will understand me." You know? I think of--you know, it's 11 people--everyone does their job or someone gets hurt. You know, you look to your left, look to your right, and those are your brothers as your sisters. You trust those people with your safety.

Ethan: Yeah.

Jason: That's how I grew up. I played football for 12 or 13 years, like those guys are still some of my best friends in the world. When you put your safety in someone else's hands, and when you win as a team and lose as team, there's nothing more powerful. You know, I was very fortunate we had an incredible coach that followed us when I moved to that town in sixth or seventh grade, the varsity team was 0-10.

And then when we, when our class graduated, we were 10-0. It was 10-1 cause we lost the state championship. But, but you know, that, and that was one coach that sort of saw the whole transition. And that's just the code I was sort of brought up with was that accountability for your actions, hard work.

There are no shortcuts. Get it done and don't complain. 

Ethan: Yeah. I think that's a great mentality to live by. I really like that. So I guess talking about accountability and owning things, you know, when the opportunity came up at Wieden+Kennedy to jump overseas and go establish that the Nike campaign over in China, you wanted to take complete ownership of that.

Can you speak to that a little bit? 

Jason: What was that? I'm sorry.

Ethan: I just said, can you speak to that a little bit? 

Jason: Yeah, so I got to Wieden and dream come true moment. Right? And then, Phil Knight had just retired and gone to the role of Chairman Emeritus and they thought that they would try a new leadership structure.

So they didn't, they didn't promote Mark Parker into that role. They put, they brought in someone from the outside. And it wasn't really working. And there was also a lot of friction between Nike and Wieden at the time so I got into this job and I was like, this is supposed to be my dream job, but this is actually not--it doesn't feel like my dream job. You know? Which is kind of heartbreaking to a 28 year old who's been loving Nike since 12, you know? And then, we won the business in China and it was small operation, you know, it was three years before the Beijing Olympics. Just Do It meant nothing in China. There was real work to be done.

And, I asked to go and they said "no," because I had just started at Wieden and they're like, "you know, we like you, you're doing well, but you know, we got to send Wieden DNA. You know? Someone that really knows us that will go and do that." And I, I raised my hand and I said, "no," and then they started to be a couple of mistakes over there cause they didn't have the right leadership in place and they were just going a hundred miles an hour.

So then, they came back to me and they said, "you know, are you still interested?" And I was like, "yeah." So my boss, Dave Luhr, he said, "well, this is not a job offer, but just get on a plane, go to China, check it out and come back and let's talk." And I, I signed a lease while I was in China. Which he did not know. And, and then I came back and I wrote him a note.

I just said, "you know, if I, if I don't tell you this and it's on me, but if I tell you this and you don't send me to China, then it's on you." I was like, "I'm going to do this job and I'm going to do, I'm going to kill it and I have vision for it. I'm built for this." And then my boss walked up to me shortly thereafter and was like, "what did you say to Dave?"

I was like, "I just set him an email." She's like, "well, you're moving to China."

Ethan: That's awesome.

Jason: And I was gone in like a month or two.

Ethan: So can we unpack that a little bit? The signing a lease, I mean, that seems like, I guess sort of a minor detail, but that really sticks out to me because is that you saying this is happening and I'm going to do whatever it takes for this to happen?

Jason: I would have moved to China sight on scene. Like I knew that that was my shot. I was at a point in my career, I put in my life where I wanted to call the shots. I wanted to win or lose on my decision making, you know? And I knew that that was going to take a long time in Portland because there was so much seniority and everyone loved it at Wieden, you never leave.

You stay there for 20 years. And I just was dying for like the shot, like I wanted to call the shot, and then this play, this incredible opportunity came up, so I would have gone sight on scene. But. But once I got there, it felt like New York City, but Chinese. I was like "I can do this," and I just, I was determined and I signed. 

Owen: So you talk a lot about culture, throughout your entire journey, throughout your entire career. Obviously moving to China is a completely different culture from America. Being a marketer and the incredible one that you are, how was your role different in marketing to China than it was in the United States?

Jason: My role there, first and foremost, well, actually that's not true. There was a couple of, first and foremost. There's really three, I think, kind of main objectives. One was to really deeply understand the Nike brand and make sure we were kind of translating that appropriately and correctly. Right? That was one.

Two was to make sure we were translating the Wieden+Kennedy brand appropriately in China. You know, cause those are our first, you know, foray into the advertising market there. And then I think third, which was the one for me that was the most fun and the most rewarding, was to develop really great marketers and advertisers out of this like this, this exploding Chinese middle class, and you had these kids that were graduating from school that were--.

Some of them didn't even know why they were at Wieden. They just knew they were a little different. You know? Their parents are from the cultural revolution and these kids have iPhone. They couldn't be more different than their parents, and even within their own circles, they were the more creative ones. They were the ones that wanted tattoos. They were the ones that like didn't want to do math, science, engineering, that stuff. And you know, they, they kind of just flocked to Wieden. And it was a pretty beautiful thing. Like in our first, I think our first 10 years we had like 30 relationships most of them were marriages.

It was pretty special. 

Ethan: So I am a huge advocate of, you know, international experience and getting to experience different cultures for an extended period of time. So-- and I know you've talked in the past about the importance of diversity in the workplace and how not having diversity in the workplace can lead to, you know, issues, especially in marketing and advertising and failed ads.

One that comes to mind that was just a really, it came under a lot of fire was the 2017 Pepsi ad. So can you just kind of explain what the importance of diversity in the workplace means to you and why that is important? 

Jason: Well, I think--so to go back to your previous question, Owen, you sort of talked a lot about culture.

I think of culture, like in my mind, the definition of culture is in an action that you put into the world that causes everyone else to shift. Right? And I think that's what makes really successful brands and really successful people, like people who, who change the world. They say like the stubborn man is the one that will change the world.

And you know, diversity is what I think gives you the perspective and the understanding and the opportunity to find those moments where you can make the world shift around you because you understand all perspectives, you've got, you know, you've got visibility to flavor. You got visibility to options.

You've got visibility to all the different layers of like what's moving the world. You know? And I think, especially now, like when you look at what's happening in the world, what's driving culture, it's like young black and brown kids who are driving culture, you know? And I think to not have that in your building and then try to market to these kids--to not have the, that perspective driving your work, driving your creativity, your, you're just missing.

So many details and great creative is about the details it's about the nuance, you know?

Owen: So talking about someone who had a huge effect on the culture of the entire world-- NBA legend, Kobe Bryant. Obviously the entire world mourns over the loss of him. As someone who helped build the Kobe brand and was able to experience his work ethic and demeanor firsthand, can you explain the impact Kobe had on you and the sports world in general? 

Jason: So I worked with Kobe a bunch. The first time I worked with him was when I moved to China in 2005-2006. And we really spent a lot of time building his brand. We shot a six episode television show with him. We did a bunch with him.

And then at Beats-- funny, funny Kobe story--he was, I was at the Super Bowl and his, his president called me and she said, "Kobe wants to see you."

And I was like, "cool. I'm in Arizona at the Super Bowl."

She's like, "Kobe wants to see you."

Okay. So next morning, like first flight out of Arizona, I flew down to John Wayne in Long Beach, and I thought we were going to talk about, designing a headphone for him. I was at Beats at the time. And I walked in, "what's up what's up," all that. And then, I was like, so, you know, let's talk about it.

And he was like, "well, you know, I didn't call you in to make a headphone." And he was like, "I want you to work for me."

And you know, I was gonna--we talked about me going to help him. He knew he was gonna retire. He knew he was on that road. And he was thinking about his brand post retirement, specifically in China, you know? So, I was going to help him kind of architect that.

And, I ended up ultimately not taking the job. I felt like where I was at Beats was, the growth path I wanted to be on. But, you know, I had a lot of visibility to him as a just an incredible man. And his work ethic was insane, and I think--what I love what has happened, you know, in the wake of this tragedy, is the Mamba mentality that has really kind of, I mean, you really, I was at the Memorial in the Staples Center.

You know, people are, are leaving real stories, real stories about how he will change them. And I think for me it felt like when it happened I was, I was just really like numb and confused and when I saw the Mamba mentality thing really starts to take hold of social and all that it just reminded me of how I had taken for granted that I got to watch him firsthand bust his ass. 

Owen: Yeah. 

Jason: He was on time. He was courteous. He worked his ass off. He didn't--no short cuts. He was just a really one-of-a-kind soul. And I remember we were, we were meeting with him once cause we were going to shoot this commercial about, this is when we were making this six episode television show.

We were making the launch piece for him. And I was talking to him and I was like, "yo, so we're going to shoot like all your signature moves."

And he's like, "whoa, what do you mean the 'signature moves'?"

I was like, "Well, you have signature moves, you know you have signature moves."

He's like, "I don't have signature moves."

We all kind of looked at each other in the meeting like, "oh shit, what do we do now?" So he grabs a piece of paper, he's like--here gimme that-- grabs a piece of paper, grabs a pen and--here, I'll show you right now. He goes, so he takes a piece of paper and he draws a key like that, right? He's like, this is the key.

And he's like, "right here, this is my Kill Box." It's like, whatever you give me, I'm gonna kill you. He said, "you give me left, you don't get me right. You give me right, you don't give me left...I'll kill you." He's like, "I don't have a signature move, I just have my Kill Box."

Owen: He's a legend. 

Jason: And we all looked at each other and we were like, "wow." Just such a simple, such a simple example of, he's like, I will, whatever sliver you give me, I'll kill you with. 

Ethan: He, I mean, he had obviously a global impact and that really shows now, and you know, words are just words, but as someone who knew him personally, I'm sorry for your loss.

Like I know he was--he meant a lot to a lot of people. Sorry about that. But you know, you just brought up Beats. So I think that's a natural transition point. I know you-- one of the big campaigns that you worked on, maybe something that you might attribute to being one of your biggest campaigns was the Straight Outta Compton campaign in 2016.

And I know that that--I guess the goal, one of the goals of a marketer is to have a campaign, a meme, something that can be recycled and regurgitated online and in the channels on different  social medias. So, you know, is that something that you actively go for, to get those campaigns that create organic reach--that create organic reach by themselves? Or is that just like, does that happen? 

Jason: So there was an era in advertising, right around that time, a little before that, where everyone would say, we need a viral campaign. I hate that expression. You don't set out to make--viral is a result, viral isn't a strategy. And it just felt like everyone was trying so hard to like make viral things.

You know? That really started in like 2010-2011 around there. Like when Nike started doing like the crossbar thing with Ronaldinho and, you know, stuff was going viral and everyone was like, "we need that." You know? Earned media. You don't have to spend a dime ever again. All that shit. And you know, for us it was, it was much more--like we just--we're good on time by the way. It was much more of a, it's never, like that's never been the desired outcome. You know? Like what we did was we were in the--that's probably one of my favorite pieces of work. There's a lot of people that contributed to that, including a guy named John Solomon, who never gets mentioned, he was my head of digital who, thank you, John.

Ethan & Owen: Shoutout John!

Jason: And you know, it was a project where everyone--it was kind of secondary, right? It was a film. It wasn't our thing, but we knew, and Jimmy and Luke, they said like Dre's success is our success. The more people see this film, the more they can understand our story and the more credible we are as a headphone company so support this and let's make sure this is cool. Cool. Got it. And we were like, "alright, well let's..." And you know, we worked with Universal and we love them and it was like, family. So, we grab these like young guys in the company and we were like, "go work on this." You know? Like "we'll give you a week, go work on it."

And they like took over the conference room and they just like stuff everywhere. And we came in and had a creative review and they, what they originally had was the whole world comes to Compton. So they wanted everyone to come to Compton and show Compton that the world, like had them, the world was like down with Compton and understands what's happening in Compton. And like everyone's down for Compton. And we looked at it and it just felt forced, you know, in a little like, like pandering a little bit, you know? But what we then thought of was like, well, no, that, it's actually the opposite of that, right? It's like we're all from somewhere, you know? And, and the second that you finally like take pride in that, you know? Like even myself, like yo I went to like this, like very white high school and I'm like running Beats by Dre. Like I own that shit. I don't care. You know? And you know, is when you own your past and when you like step into it, it becomes power. And that was what we were like, yo, this is like, this is incredible.

And then, you know, like capturing that insight was the most important thing. And then--shoutout John--it was like, what is the simplest mechanism we could possibly come up with that's just going to let people express themselves. You know? Cause otherwise it's like, who cares? You know, like I'm not going to download some shit and I'm not going to do this and I'm not going to do that.

But it was like, just type a word, you know, like type a word, pick a filter, go. The last part of that was how we created the waterfall effect, which was the trick of how we did all the production. 

Ethan: Yeah, that's great. You still like, I don't know, you go to any beach Jersey Shore. You walk down to the boardwalk you see it in the shops.

Jason: I always take a picture and send it to those three guys. 

Ethan & Owen: Yeah.

Jason: I say it all the time. Like "guys, you, you made something that will probably go forever." You know? To be 25, 26, 27 whatever they were like that was dope, and I hope they always take pride in that. I've taken pictures in Hawaii, Singapore, Shanghai, 

Owen: It's global.

Jason: I just take pictures like "this is your work."

Owen: So you mentioned during that campaign that you worked with various different people. On top of that, you've worked with Snoop Dogg, LeBron Kaepernick, Serena Williams, Dr. Dre, Eminem--the list goes on and on of the impactful figures that you've worked with or for in various campaigns.

Is there one specific public figure that has impressed you with their knowledge of marketing or the end consumer? 

Jason: Wow. Well, Kobe opened an advertising agency like he owned an advertising agency in Venice beach. And he actually did it with some old Wieden+Kennedy guys, so he really understood the business.

I don't think he was quite the creative he thought he was, but he was really good. But he has an Oscar so what do I know? So he was like very, very extreme example. I think, I think Bron knows what he wants to do. Like LeBron really knows what he wants, which is really important, you know, cause like the strategy at Beats was never to like push an idea on talent. It was like we're gonna figure this out together because we want you to love it, cause we want you to push it out, we want you to own it, we want you to take pride in it. So like, it was great always working with Lebron, cause he was like pretty clear on what he was going to do, what he wasn't, what he liked and it was like, we knew kind of how to show up.

And his team is phenomenal and they would always help us prep for those moments and understand what was in his head right now what's he listening to right now, like what's going on in his life. So, you know, that was a really, really fun one. And the time and time again-- yeah, I think those two would be the ones that, that are just like really get the process and really understand the power of creativity.

Ethan: And I know something, switching gears here a little bit, something that's really grabbed my attention lately is the emergence of the social media app TikTok. And I know that that's, probably super big in the advertising and marketing circles right now. It's sort of like a black box. 

Jason: Everybody's like "we need a TikTok idea."

Ethan: It's a complete black box and everyone's trying to figure it out. 

Jason: Yeah. 

Ethan: Can you just sort of, you know, unpack that and has that changed your role as a marketer? And, is that a potential way to channel a new demographic? I know the demographics kind of young right now. 

Jason: Yeah. Hang on. I'm going to try to remember this guy's name, who was the producer that I met, who did this amazing stuff on TikTok.

So TikTok is, it's just the next iteration of self-expression, right? It's the next iteration of, of short form storytelling. It's--and every great brand is like "oh my God, we got to jump on that." Right? And that's, so this is nothing new. You know, this is just the next version of, of self expression.

And then, and you know. Really consumer generated media. But I think, what, what you're seeing is just like the, the heavier investment of the consumer into crafting these experiences, right? Like, it's a crafting the executional piece. and I think to get that kind of scale so quickly is incredible.

And I think brands--like everyone's trying to crack, like how does a brand do that? How does a brand play in that space? Usually that's been when all brands fail. You know what I mean? Like, when it's not organic and you're like forcing your way into it, 9 out of 10 will fail, but someone will do an incredible idea, you know, it will happen.

I know Roots out of Toronto, they were just playing with the idea, shoutout [inaudible]. And, they were fairly successful at Fashion Week with it. But I haven't seen anyone crush it yet. But what was interesting was the, so this guy I was talking to, he was a music producer and, I'm complete blanking on his name, so I apologize for that.

But he's a well known music producer. And he came up with a beat that ended up being shared like, over, like a billion times across, like all the different ways people used it. And we were having dinner and he was brilliant because what he basically said was, he was like, he gave-- 

Ethan: Was it Renegade?

Jason: No.

Ethan: No?

Jason: No. I can never remember who it was. Ah, he sold the beat for like 500 bucks because what he saw was that was the Trojan horse. Like you go let that be, go to a billion people or get seen a billion times, I guess, and then you drop a song when it has that beat? Your song's, number one, done and dusted, you know?

So that was his strategy, which is brilliant, and you know, I think I'm seeing more creators and individual like artists find ways into that. Then, you know, brands are still like fumbling their way through it, and that's what we do. Like we're not good at that stuff. 

Ethan: And I know that TikTok was essential to the rise of Lil Nas X and that whole--.

Jason: Yep.

Ethan: Yeah, I mean it's crazy. I know the music industry is freaking out about it right now. 

Jason: Yeah it is massive. 

Owen: So you talk about, how much you love sports and music and culture, yet you left that all behind to go and join Cura. Can you talk about your time so far at Cura and some of the challenges that have been presented?

Jason: Well, I didn't leave it behind. It all goes, all those roads go to the same place. Like cannabis is in every part of sport, music or culture. It's just not there yet. You know, it's not publicly there yet. So what I saw was a chance to be part of, be one of the architects of how it all aligns and sort of combines down the road and how it can be a real part of culture as you know, law develops and as people's acceptance of and normalization happens, like, so that was what was really attractive to me and it was also obviously the ability to do some social justice work and really like come and change people's lives.

But, you know, my first year--so I started in February, actually two days ago, was my one year anniversary. And we got acquired in May, very similar to Beats. I started at Beats and we got acquired by Apple. And it's been a tricky year because we've been dealing with--you know you can't raise money because people already know you were purchased, so you're no longer, you know, attractive in that way.

We had the vape crisis. We had, a downturn in our business in California. There was a lot that happened this year, but for me, it was so exciting. It was--I feel like I was back at another point in my life, like China where I was like, "I want to call all the shots like I want the shots again."

You know, like, I love working for Jimmy and Dre and Luke Wood and like Omar and like, those are brilliant marketers and I kind of wanted to like get out from under their shadow a bit and like, go call some shots again. You know? And that's exactly what the team at Select wanted. They wanted a marketer and they were handing the lane to the marketer.

It was like just, you know, take us from A to B. You know? And they did a phenomenal job going from zero to A, but then it was like, great, now let's go to B. And, that was a really fun year of establish the foundation of a brand. It was like fundamentals of marketing, you know, but what does this brand stand for?

Why? And then like, what are our building blocks? What's our voice? You know, what are our actions? And we literally built like a brand pyramid. It was like going back to Georgetown. and you know, and we got to really learn and execute the marketplace in different ways and just watch this category come to life.

So it's, it's been a blast. And then as of two weeks ago, Curaleaf purchased Cura, no relation. So now the Select brand is now part of the Curaleaf family. So I'm the CMO of the whole thing. Both the Cura brand and the Select brand, and now we're just really working on all the different ways this East Coast health and wellness business and this West Coast lifestyle brands can serve consumers and provide great products for consumers.

Ethan: And I know you just mentioned, your work in social justice and, we're definitely gonna get back to that cause that's, I know that's a big part of what you do and you care a lot about that. But I wanted to ask you a little bit about--you know, you mentioned how it's sorta the same as China It's kind of like going back in time and you get the chance to call the shots and really see this thing develop. So where do you really see--I know this is a super difficult question--but where do you see the cannabis industry in 5, 10, 20 years? And you know, is it sort of, are you sort of just waiting for the legislation to catch up with where you guys are at? Are you light years ahead? 

Jason: I wouldn't say we're, we're waiting for the legislation to catch up. I mean. People are still learning like this plant. You know? It's a mysterious thing. You can just unpack it, and unpack it, and unpack it and, you know, there's not a lot of places that can even do the research, you know?

So, there's a, we are at, like--I always tell my team, like if, I would say "if we were Nike we haven't even written the line 'Just Do It' yet." You know? Like we're not, we're not even there yet. 

Ethan: Right. 

Jason: I think about all of the perspective of what we're trying to do and what the industry is trying to do.

We know nothing. You know, we are at day one of what this plant is going to do for people. And I think when you think 5, 10 years down the road, there's going to be a lot of research around like health. I think that's gonna be the biggest change you're going to see is how this plant will get permission to actually make claims around, what it can do for your body, what it can do for conditions, what it can do for chronic stuff, acute stuff.

And I think, I think you're going to see the world move towards more of plant based healing and I think this will be, this will lead the way. You know there's a 140 cannabinoids in a plant. So THC and CBD are two of 140. You know? Like there's 130 other ones and we don't even know the half of kind of what some of those are going to do for us.

Owen: Yeah, I mean, I think it's really awesome that you're in this position working at Curaleaf to trail blaze new paths in this industry, and you have the ability to make a global impact. We really love what you're doing with the Possible Plan and bringing social justice for those who are disproportionately affected by prohibition and criminalization of cannabis.

What can we all do to help in the fight to change this narrative? 

Jason: That's very easy. You can give audience, you can give money, or you can  give time. Money you can give to possibleplan.org or you can give to some other organization. I think the reason why you would give to possibleplan.org is because we sit top of the industry and we funnel money into what's the right issue at the right moment.

So, and what's the right partner, who's really the best to address that issue. So if it's Equity First, who does a lot of work here in Michigan around expungement, then like we would funnel to Equity First, you know? So that's how you can give money. 

You can give audience, which for us means--so we've developed this education seminar. It's an hour long, and it takes you from the history of cannabis in the world, to the history of cannabis in the United States, to the history of the war on drugs, to the effect of the war on drugs, to like where we have to go as a community. Right? And the fact that this is not a cannabis conversation, it's a human rights conversation.

That's something that we've kind of developed and we're trying to use that module to educate people because people don't know like how crazy it is what happened in this country. And I think the more people understand that, the more they will let go of the stigma of cannabis. Like it was all intentional.

Ethan: Yeah. 

Jason: It was--the reason why it was changed to "marijuana" was intentional. The reason why--I'm not gonna go into it all. I think everyone should watch the movie Grass is Greener. Fab 5 Freddy, who's on the board of Possible Plan, narrates it and I believe he's a producer. It's a phenomenal film that reveals a lot of the truth.

So that's how you can give audience. Like we are literally asking people, if you think that your audience be that University of Michigan, be that people you work with, whatever, like if you think there's a room where people will receive that message well then it'll start to create change and change the narrative in this country, we'll show up and we'll teach it. And then, give time is pick up the phone, call your representative. You know, Michigan's obviously in a good place for the most part. I think there are still things in this state that could be better, but you guys have achieved adult use and, you know, I think social equity is still something that is a discussion here.

I think anyone can sort of figure out how there's more that can be done. And I think right now, like, because the cannabis industry took a massive hit last year. We lost like $28 billion in value or something like that and, you know, that means that no one's giving money to charities. No one's giving money to like nonprofits and foundations. Like people are just trying to like stay afloat. So, you know, for those who are not in this industry, if you want to really be a part of creating change around the narrative and those who have been really adversely effected, like, now's a great time to donate money because it's really hard to raise money right now.

Ethan: Yeah. And I know you also sit on the board of directors of the Marcus Graham Project. Can you explain what you do there too? 

Jason: Yeah, so MGP is --it's a cool, cool program. I was in China--the first time I was in China, so I came back from China in 2009. And I really felt like there was a big diversity debate going on in New York City advertising.

And I felt like, you know, I had left New York in 2005 and I left the country in 2006 and I felt like I had almost like sat out the diversity battle. Although I was a part of it when I was in New York, but I really felt like I had sat out the last three years cause I was in China.

Right? So when I came back, I really wanted to get involved and it was really important to me to get involved. I was much more senior now. I had kind of a platform or starting to have a platform. So I saw this guy on adage.com named Lincoln Steffens that was running this program called Marcus Graham Project.

Marcus Graham was Eddie Murphy's name in the movie Boomerang. That was the first time when people my age saw a black guy in advertising, so he called him Marcus Graham Project. He quit his job in Chicago, moved home to Dallas, and he started Marcus Graham Project. So I just hit him up and was like, "yo, I want to help. I want to do something." 

10 years later, I've been with him ever since. Like we're homies, I'm on the board and, you know, we've brought Wieden+Kennedy and Wieden gives a ton of money. I've hired several of them and what's really cool is this year Marcus Graham just launched their LA chapter. And they are using Possible Plan as their client.

So Marcus Graham is using Possible as the pro bono client. So it's dope. It's all come kind of full circle. 

Ethan: That's awesome. That's great. 

Owen: So we know you're short on time, and that you have a ton to do so I think we're gonna start to wrap it up here. Obviously this show is a lot about success and choosing different paths and taking the exponential path to success. So we really want to know how do you define "success" and what has "success" meant to you thus far in your career? 

Jason: I think "success", the definition of "success" changes as you kind of go through your career as you go through life and reach different phases.

I think in the beginning of my career, for me, "success" was like--it was really "success" was delivering for upper leadership. You know, like I was the guy that would like, I would do it. Whatever needed to be done I was going to do it. I would stay all night. I would like work my ass off for whatever was required because there--when you make them succeed, they took you with them, you know, and I learned that at a very young age, like your job is to make your boss's job easier.

You know, and so that was really my pursuit was just to like, be the best little worker bee I could be, you know? And I think going into like kind of my second phase of Wieden and Nike and all that, success for me was nothing but putting out great creative. Like I wanted to put out the best work in the world and I wanted to make work that people talked about. I wanted to be a part of the team that made work that, you know, really moved the world. And that was sort of that phase. 

And now, I think--and then I think Beats for me, that was also very similar. Like Beats was also like, I just want to do shit that people loved and talked about and like, you know, really drive culture.

And now for me, like for me, "success" is purely leadership. Like I'm in a phase where I just want to be the greatest leader I can be. I want to see my team thrive. I want the work that we do--I want great work to come out of great philosophy, great leadership, and great execution. You know? Because when you do those things, great work will arise.

And I think, you know, taking a position on this category in social justice, taking a position on, you know, being a leader in the category and understanding the responsibility of what that is--like for me leadership right now is the absolute measure of success. Like how strong of a leader can I be as we try to build and put this thing in the world?

Ethan: Great. Jason, thank you. Thank you so much. 

Owen: Yes, thank you so much.

Jason: Pleasure to be here on the show.

You guys got to tell them how we met. Like so random.

Ethan: Yeah, we will. We'll put that in the intro. Alright, awesome. 

Jason: Alright, thank you. 

Owen: Great, thank you. 

Thank you for tuning into the Power of 2 podcast. Ethan and I are two college students looking to inspire our generation and the ones to follow by sharing the stories of unique individuals. If you enjoyed the episode, feel free to share it and follow us on Instagram @baimbrothers for exclusive content.

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