Jim Berline // The Art of Competitive Advantage

From a two-sport athlete at the University of Michigan to a two-time U.S. Grand Master squash champion, Jim Berline has always been competitive. It was this competitiveness that helped to jumpstart Jim’s career in marketing. Eventually, this led him to become the youngest vice president and senior vice president at two highly regarded marketing communication and advertising agencies. Yet, it was Jim’s drive and passion that sparked the start of BERLINE, Jim’s own agency in Michigan, that he operated for some time before simultaneously working for an established shop in New York City. After deciding to focus solely on his own company, BERLINE has proudly served its clients for nearly 40 years. Throughout his journey, Jim has gained an abundance of experience and a plethora of wisdom that he kindly gifts in this episode.

Transcript

Jim Berline: I wouldn't know how to price my company. You guys want to buy it and you want me to come back? And then I did something crazy. I said, I'll come back under one condition. You allow me to keep my company.

Owen: Welcome to the Power of 2, where we explore the stories of unique individuals to understand how they define success and use that blueprint to lead an exponential life. I'm your co-host Owen Baim alongside my brother Ethan and today we are joined by the chairman of BERLINE Advertising and Marketing Agency, Jim Berline. 

Growing up in the small town of Niles, Ohio, Jim was motivated from a young age. His competitive nature led him to the University of Michigan where he was a two varsity athlete– an All-American football player and a dynamic baseball player. There, Jim earned a bachelor's degree in economics before receiving a master's degree from the University of Illinois and becoming a member of the Harvard Business School President's Program.

His eagerness to continue to learn contributed to his impressive portfolio of jobs at iconic marketing communication and advertising agencies where he worked on big automotive brands such as Chevy, Chrysler, Lincoln Mercury, and Dodge. Jim started his work career as the youngest Vice President at Campbell Ewald.

After a short stint empty BBDO as the Senior Vice President, Jim went on to be the youngest ever Senior Vice President at Young & Rubicam. Following his time at that agency, Jim had the ambition to start his own agency called BERLINE. Hungry for more, Jim rejoined BBDO as the Executive Vice President and a member of the board of directors while also running his own agency.

After two restless years of work at both the advertising agency and his own company, Jim decided to focus solely on BERLINE. Almost 40 years later, his company is still operating at the highest level. Yet, Jim's work career is only one part of his remarkable journey. He's also committed to the betterment of the world through his civic involvement. Jim currently chairs the Board of Trustees of CATCH Charity, Children's Leukemia Foundation of Michigan, and has been the chairman of the board for multiple other organizations such as Make-A-Wish Foundation of Michigan. 

Additionally, Jim has been inducted into several distinguished groups including the Detroit Advertising Hall of Fame and Who's Who of America. Jim has cultivated strong leadership skills through the years which is why he was the President of the world's largest advertising club and was also the president of YPO Gold, a global leadership community for experienced chief executives. To top it all off, Jim is a two-time U.S. Grand Masters squash champion and is still ranked today.

In this episode, we discuss the fearless attitude Jim developed from calling the shots at a young age, what Jim believes it takes to distinguish oneself from others, and how a young girl's inspiration gave his career a new meaning, alongside much more. This week on the Power of 2 Podcast... Jim Berline.

Ethan: Hey, what's going on everybody. I'm Ethan Baim here with my brother Owen and welcome to the Power of 2. Today we are joined by the incredible Jim Berline. Jim, welcome to the show. 

Jim Berline: Thank you, pleasure to be here. 

Ethan: Yeah, so let's dive right in. I guess, you know, something that really stood out to us is your alumni status from the University of Michigan just as we both go to the University of Michigan.

Owen: Go blue!

Ethan: Go blue. And during your time there you played football– you were on the football team, is that correct? 

Jim Berline: Yeah, correct. And then for two years I was on the baseball team as well. So I played two sports at Michigan. 

Ethan: That's incredible. I can't believe that. And I know you had an outstanding senior season too. You led the team in receiving yards. 

Jim Berline: Yeah, my–  the unfortunate– the bad news was that I played behind a first team All-American my sophomore, junior year so I had to sit and watch him play. And I'd just go in when he got tired or hurt. Then my senior year was kinda like my time.

So I played every offensive play Michigan had the ball my senior year. And if somebody would come in to replace me cause they thought I was winded, I'd say "get the hell out of here". This is my turn, you're coming back next year. 

Ethan: Yeah.

Jim Berline: And I couldn't do that if Schembechler were the coach, but it was okay when Bump was the coach.

Ethan: That's unbelievable and I know on top of leading the team, you were also the AP All-Big Ten Second team. 

Jim Berline: Yeah, and I made honorable mention All-American. And that was really exciting for me because I did it all in one year. 

Owen: Unbelievable

Jim Berline: I didn't have like two years to ramp up stats.

Ethan: Yeah.

Jim Berline:  It was like, here's your time go for it. 

Ethan: Yeah. 

Owen: Yeah. 

Jim Berline: And for about almost thirty years, I had the second most passes caught in a season in the history of Michigan.

Owen: Incredible. And then also you're currently today still ranked in squash. And we see a common theme of athletics and this competitive nature. Can you dive a little deep into like where this came from? Is it from your family, like a little background on, on where this competitive nature came from?

Jim Berline: Sure. My dad was kinda like my hero and I'll give you a little backstory on that in a minute, but he was a tight end for Penn State so– and he was very athletic. And in his junior year at Penn State he left to join the army. And he thought that was more his responsibility than playing football. 

Went to the Pacific, got bored sitting on Christmas Island with nobody shooting at him. So he, wanted to go to Europe and fight. So he ended up getting shot 11 times at the invasion of the Battle of Anzio. And everybody was shot and then were killed, except him. And they thought he was dead but the Italians found him and he survived.

I was over two before he ever saw me. And he was in body casts and all kind of things. But– and growing up, I–  he thought he was the luckiest guy on the planet. Every Saturday, my regimen with him was not to go watch a ball game, it was go to the doctor so he could have his sores drained or shrapnel pulled out.

And that exposure, I learned a lot about humility but I also learned about being competitive  and sports came easy to me, young. We played baseball, basketball, and football was always on the all star teams. And in high school, I was All-State in baseball, All-State in football, All-Region in basketball.

And it just was natural. And I love the competition. I love keeping score. I love having a winner and a loser

Ethan: Yeah.

Jim Berline:  And somebody lost you figure out why you lost and you don't lose for the same reason. 

Ethan: Right. 

Jim Berline: And when you win you figure out why you won and you keep using that reason. And the neat thing about the football story was that.

The helmet I wore in high school was the Michigan helmet. 

Ethan: Wow.

Jim Berline: So in my whole life, from the time I was in ninth grade, I've worn one helmet. That was the Michigan-winged helmet. 

Owen: So did you have the dream of always playing at Michigan? 

Jim Berline: No, in fact, my parents had me take some tests when I was a senior to see what kind of college I should go to, and the test said that like 98% of the world is more mechanically inclined and like 97 is more musically inclined.

And because I was kind of focused on architecture and those things, I should go to an all male, co-ed— or an all male school, preferably small and preferably a military Academy. So I ended up applying to Annapolis and that was one of my finalists. But then when Michigan and Florida State and Northwestern and Duke and those colleges came after me, it was more appealing to me to do that.

And at that time, if you went to a military Academy, it was a five year commitment, after graduating. So that was it, you know, you're 17 you're making a nine year commitment and also in those days you had to be an engineer. And I didn't want to be an engineer. Now you can go to a military Academy and major in business or history or whatever.

So that led me to Michigan. It just seemed to be the right place. It was a four hour drive from my parents. It had everything I wanted. If I got hurt my first day and never played, I still was going to get a great education. 

Owen: Right.

Jim Berline: I didn't regret it for a minute. Except the guy playing ahead of me was too good—

Owen: Yeah.

Jim Berline: —for a couple of years 

Owen: Yeah, that's tough but you got your chance to shine.

Jim Berline: Yeah, yeah.

Ethan: Did that competitive spirit leak into other elements of your life before college? Like how were your academics as a high school student? 

Jim Berline: I was like a National Honor Society. I wasn't in the competition for valedictorian by a long shot, but I was always in the accelerated classes and I really went to Michigan to be an architect. Growing up, I did a lot of drawing and I thought that would be my calling.

But the problem I had at Michigan was a lot of the labs that you have to take in architecture were scheduled in the afternoon, when they'd have labs and that's when I had football practice.

Ethan: Right.

Jim Berline:  So that would already take a five year program into a six or seven year program to get a bachelor's. And I wasn't up to that.

So I transferred them to L S & A and majored in economics. 

Owen: So, you obviously have a pretty long history in education. You got your B.A. in economics at Michigan, and then your master's in marketing at University of Illinois, then later your PhD at Southern Methodist University. How would you say this has contributed to your success and how important and how much do you value continued learning?

Jim Berline: Well, I didn't complete my PhD. I did PhD studies there but then— and I was working at the same time I was there. It was one of my jobs with Campbell Ewald was— I'm working on the Chevy account in the Southwestern part of the United States and it wasn't overly challenging to me. So I enrolled in the SMU program at the same time I was working at Campbell Ewald; nobody knew it. So I was doing that and then ultimately I got promoted out of there and that ended that deal. 

Owen: Gotcha. 

Jim Berline: But academics has always been important. I do this talk every year for young people. And I tell people when I talk to them that everybody starts out as just hamburger.

Everybody's the same, it's just a side of beef. And it's the ones who want to be filet mignons, who do the things in life to separate them. And, first you've got to be a cheeseburger, then you gotta be a bacon cheeseburger. And the things you do are like what you guys are doing with the podcast. And it's doing things in your part time, it's getting additional academic credentials, it's speaking— it's volunteering for charities. It's doing all those things that make you different than the guy who wants to be a plain old hamburger. And those guys have the same expectations for being the CEO, but they're never going to get there. 

Ethan: Right.

Jim Berline: Because they're still a hamburger.

Owen: Yep.

Jim Berline: And it's the people who want to be in the C suite and understood all it took to build a portfolio and to build your brand that will ultimately get you to where you want to be. When I speak to these— this group of people under 30, and I ask them, raise their hand, all those who want to be in the C suite.

And of course they all raise their hand. And then I ask them how many are doing things outside of that and three or four. They don't get it right from the beginning. And those who get it, I get calls a year or two later saying, "Mr. Berline remember you're talk? I'm now a cheeseburger. I got a promotion and here's what I did to get it".

So it had some impact and it made it real down to earth. How you get to be from a burger to a filet.

Ethan: That's something I put a lot of stock into as well is, I think, doing something to differentiate yourself outside of the classroom and outside of not even just the classroom after graduating college, your work, maybe you go home, you cut out a little of the TV time and spend that time working on your side hustle or your business that you're— your startup that you're working on the side and I think that's very valuable. So, is there one specific thing, maybe it's not one specific thing or maybe it's just the mindset, something that you think that young people should be doing now to get in the habit of working on their side hustle their side business outside of their main objective and what that can do for them in the future?

Jim Berline:  Absolutely. The most important thing I could share with young people is the value of building relationships because ultimately, you're always going to be in competition with somebody else for whatever you want to be. And those people who understand how to build relationships with people who are gonna make decisions about you are the ones who win. And too many people don't understand the value of relationships. They just take it for granted. And it's fundamental— and it's fundamental wherever you are in life, whether you're in a startup, whether you're in a mature company, and however old you are, or whether you're male or female understand how to build relationships.

I also learned something and this was probably 20 years ago. You go through these stages. When you're young, you gotta get your academic career on so you get the first credential and then you start to decide how you don't want to be a hamburger anymore. And that's kind of like phase one. And then you go through the stage of when everything you do is motivated by acquisition.

You want to make as much money as you can and so you can buy things. You wanna have a nice house, you wanna— or a nice condo, you wanna have a nice car, or you want to have nice clothes, it's all that brand driven bullshit.

Ethan: Yeah. 

Jim Berline: But you got to go through that stage. 

Ethan: Right. 

Jim Berline: And then ultimately there's a point in your life when you realize that that doesn't really mean anything.

What means everything is what you experience with your life and what you're able to do to impact other people.

Owen: Yep.

Jim Berline: And I was with a couple of guys in Alaska and we just didn't know what we were going to do. We just flew to Anchorage, got in a pick-up, and drove 10 hours and then got in a boat and went another— and put out a tent.

And, you know, I wasn't a hunter and I didn't know what the hell I was doing. I was sleeping with a 45 on my hip and I didn't know how to shoot it —

Ethan: Yeah.

Jim Berline: —for the grizzly bears. 

Ethan: Yeah.

Jim Berline: And one day we had this bush pilot take us over to a one of the islands where the Kodiak Island, where the Kodiak bears are. 

Ethan: Yeah.

Jim Berline: And I said— and he was really articulate; English accent and he talks about the economy and world health. What the hell are you doing being a bush pilot? And he said, "that's a good question but what I want to do is be able to sit on my front porch someday when this old boy rides by on his bicycle

and he said, 'sir, what did you do with your life?' And I can say, 'son, come up here, I can't wait to tell you what I do in my life". And I called my wife from Alaska, I said, a whole different deal when I get back. You know, I have the— the watch I wear still is the watch I got my senior year at Michigan; my football one. And I said, the guy next to me has a white— has a Rolex.

And I'll be damned if his time on the Rolex doesn't say the same thing as this—

Owen: Yeah.

Jim Berline: —watch that cost $15.95. 

Owen: Yeah

Jim Berline: What the hell do I need to spend $10,000 on a watch for? 

Owen: Yup. 

Jim Berline: And that Ferrari he's driving and my Impala, it got me to the other place I need to go just as— just as fast, probably safer and a lot cheaper. 

Owen: Yeah.

Jim Berline: And so we started making decisions about what we want to do with our time. And do we want to buy something or do you want to go somewhere—

Owen: Yup. 

Jim Berline: —and have a memory and that's— we kind of changed our life. And then the charitable things we did became things we started to do for other people so that we made a difference.

And my focus initially was mostly kids but now it has started to branch out a little bit beyond that. 

Owen: Yeah, I mean to our audience, Jim is one of the most philanthropic and involved people that I've ever come across. I mean, the list goes on— Chair of Board of Trustees at CATCH, Chairman of the Board of Make-A-Wish Foundation of Michigan, Chair of the Board of Children's Leukemia Foundation of Michigan.

I mean, it's unbelievable. Can you talk a little bit about your experiences giving back and what that means to you? 

Jim Berline: Absolutely because that also is based on an experience. I was heavy into the acquisition stage and I had got— we had won an award for a video that we did and I went to this luncheon to get this award and there were a bunch of not-for-profit people there. I met this lady and I said, "who are you with and what are you doing?" And she said, "I'm with the Make-A-Wish Foundation". I said, well, I got an ad agency and she said, "that's our biggest problem. We need to reach out to donors, we need to raise money and we don't have any market— marketing budget to do it.

So we don't have a good annual report, we don't have good collateral". I said, "okay, I'll take care of that right now. We'll do that for you pro bono". So I did that pro bono and then they ultimately put me on the board. And then one day the President of Make-A-Wish came to me with this wish. It was a handwritten wish from a little girl, 17, who had bone cancer and malignant tumors throughout her body.

She had gone to Cedar Point on a bus of pediatric cancer kids from Beaumont. And the bus pulled into this big bus parking lot. All these kids get off the bus and the healthy kids in the adjacent buses reacted to them like they were lepers. They physically got away from them like they were going to catch this disease.

These kids who had no hair, missing limbs and she got back on the bus, wouldn't go to Cedar point and she was 17 and had been a track star, but now her leg was gone and wrote out this wish. And the wish was merely, "It's not our fault we got cancer. All we want is a smile from somebody". So the President of Make-A-Wish gave me this thing. How are we going to grant this? I thought about it and I said, "okay, we're going to take care of that. We're going to do a PSA". And it's— we're going to traffic that around the world and we're going to do what Alex wanted us to do and that's tell other people it wasn't their fault that they got cancer. So, Alex was heavy into chemo and radiation and had ups and downs and we came up with an idea and she picked 10 other cancer kids from Beaumont ranging in age from 2 to 17 all who were really ill. And we were going to get them into a PSA. We got Bette Midler to donate the rights to her song, "Wind Beneath my Wings" with her singing, not just the rights, but her doing it.

And we created this PSA and it's called "Alex's Wish". And, we took a long time to do it because we wanted Alex to be well enough and strong enough to be part of it. So she and I would be on the phone and I'd run and meet her and we'd work on the script together. And ultimately I got back from Monday from a squash tournament and my message light was on.

And it was her aunt saying, "they just told Alex she has 24 hours to live and she wants to see her PSA". And I said, "where are you?" She said, "Beaumont". I said, "okay, give me an hour and I'll be there". So I jumped in a car and fortunately I didn't wait for Alex to finish it. Had she'd been okay, I would've let her believed that I hadn't, but we went and finished it. cause I kinda knew this was coming. Took it to Beaumont and went to their station. I said, "here's Alex's PSA she's waiting for it. Would you take it to her?" She said, "no, she wants you to bring it to her". So you don't want to go to the floor of a pediatric cancer and that's the last room on the floor, obviously.

So I walked to the end— her room and looked in and Alex was just a skeleton. She had an oxygen mask on and— I can't go in there. Went back to the nurse and I said, "Where are her mom and dad?". And they're meeting with a doctor. I said, "okay, I need to wait for them and then I'll go down". So they came out, I went down, saw Alex and I kissed her and it left a welt on her forehead because of how sensitive she was.

And I whispered, "I think you're going to like it". And she couldn't even push the remote. So I pushed it for and we played it and she's crying with tears. She couldn't really cry. She's crying, her dad's crying, I'm crying. It was like awful. And I probably waited five minutes, it seemed like five hours. I said, "do you want to see it again?"

And she said, you know— so we played it again and I said, "it's time for me to go". And I gave her another kiss and she whispered to me, "it's perfect". I left and her father walked me to the elevator and he said, "now she's going to die, that's what she's waiting for". She called her rabbi, she got the other kids on the floor to come so she could show them her video.

And, I went in the parking lot. I got three kids and I had been more of a football macho kind of guy with my kids.

Ethan: Yep.

Jim Berline: You know, tell them you love them. And—

Owen: Yep.

Jim Berline: —you know, they know it but you didn't say those things. And your buddies, you're giving them high fives, smack them on the ass you're not giving them a hug. 

Owen: You're not as sensitive.

Jim Berline: Yeah.

Owen: Yeah.

Jim Berline:  I got in the parking lot and I called each one of my kids. And I called Jess, who was a squash pro in New York. I said, I'm not on drugs and I'm not drunk. I'm going to say things to you I've never said and I should have. And I— and then I called my daughter, same thing, call my other daughter, same thing.

And it was that whole experience that changed the way I acted with people and the way I acted with my friends. I mean if it wasn't for the stupid virus, I'd hug you guys when you walked in here. I hug my clients and I say things to people that I didn't use to say. 

Owen: Yeah. 

Jim Berline: And it confirmed my priorities that I wanted to help other people. A book was written about that called When One Door Closes. Her mom and dad and I traveled around the country and gave a three part talk on the Alex story. You should go on the Make-A-Wish website and look at the video. It's called "Alex's Wish". 

Owen: Definitely will do that.

Jim Berline: And had a big impact. 

Owen: That's amazing and extremely inspiring and I can see now why you're so involved in the philanthropic work.

Ethan: And I think that that's what you were talking about before. That experience and getting to share Alex's message is something that's way more valuable than an expensive watch or a nice car. 

Jim Berline: Yeah, absolutely.

Ethan: That's like when humanity really shows and I think that's incredible.

And do you think that philanthropic work and success go hand in hand, do you think you have a moral obligation to give back more the more successful you are in your career path or whichever way you're going down in life?

Jim Berline: Absolutely. The more successfully you run a business, the more you can expose the things that expose you to the real world and we are exposed to such a fraction of what's really going on. And now when I have a bad day at work and I think about Alex. I've been to six of those kids' funerals. There were 10 in that video. They're having a bad day.

Owen: Yep.

Jim Berline: I didn't have a bad day because a client didn't like a headline we did, or we maybe lost a piece of business.

That's not a bad day. And your perspective on what is important changes and anything you can do, cause we all have different gifts and expertise, and it just so happens that marketing is a big thing what these organizations need. So they're always eager to have help. And I tell my friends, there's a big difference between philanthropic— being philanthropic and being truly a good person that gives back.

A lot of wealthy people can write checks—

Owen: Yep.

Jim Berline: —but it's different to write a check to a hospital and not even step foot in that hospital. 

Ethan: Yeah. 

Jim Berline: And your conscious believes that you're a—

Owen: good person

Jim Berline: —giver.

Owen: Yep. 

Jim Berline: But when you walk in and you see where your money's going and how someone's life is changing, that's what I believe the experience is.

It's just not that you can write a big check and the world is good, that's not the deal.

Owen: It's donating your time. 

Jim Berline: Yeah, and it's helping those people who are less fortunate. 

Owen: Yeah. That's very amazing and that's something that Ethan and I preach too is perspective and it aligns exactly with what you just said: as poor of a day as you were having or what's ever going on in your life, you really gotta look at the bigger picture and see what's really going on with the rest of the world and other people that are struggling more. 

Jim Berline: Yeah, absolutely. And sports was a big part of helping me get there cause it keeps you going and keeps you competing and keeps you wanting to be better every day.

Ethan: Yeah. And I guess off of that— off of your competitive nature and everything that we've talked about so far, I mean, you have a pretty incredible track record of becoming Vice President at Campbell Ewald, Senior Vice President of BBDO and you were one— maybe the youngest if not one of the youngest to achieve some of these honors and positions. How— people— for people that are just coming out of college or maybe leaving high school and going to the college level and joining different organizations and clubs. What can you do— what's something that you can do or a mindset that you can have as a young employee to make a name for yourself and really differentiate yourself from other people? 

Jim Berline: That was another lesson my dad taught me early on and I'll never forget. He said, "never tell people how good you are. You let them tell you how good you are". So you don't go around pounding your chest with this ego-driven thing. You do the things to build the relationships I talk about before and attributes that when I would get promoted to some of those positions at really young ages it's because I was able to develop relationships with people 20, 30 years older than I was. Who didn't look at me as 28 or 26 or 31 and they're 65. They looked at me as somebody they trusted my point of view, they trusted my brain and they wanted to spend time with me. So when I could— when Lee Iacocca would want me at a meeting and I'm 29 years old, that kind of reinforced why— that I had value and age was no bearing on that. And it actually— my boss at one time told me was that I was— the image I projected was I was fearless. That it— and that I was consistent so that every day my employees here don't know whether we just won a $10 million account or whether we just lost one.

They could always count on the guy in the corner to be the same. And he's the rudder of the ship and he's going to set the tone and he's going to be our brand. And he's not going to be this emotional person that everybody around him has to adjust. In a good mood today, is he in a bad mood today? I didn't want to do that.

And that's not what great leaders do. They're stable and they're confident and they're leaders of their team but the team is what makes them successful. 

Ethan: Yeah. You talk a lot about building these organic relationships. So what's a key element that makes a relationship organic.

Obviously everyone understands what an organic relationship is, but sometimes it's hard to really put it into words. You know, you don't want to come at somebody with an immediate ask the first time you meet them. 

Jim Berline: Right.

Ethan: So how do you— in business specifically, how do you build out these organic relationships?

Is it just from meeting different people through connections? Is it meeting people at conferences? How does that work? 

Jim Berline: Yeah, it's all of those things. This— my firm here is 37 years old and we represent a lot of the really prestigious brands and I've never made a cold new business call in 37 years.

Every claim we have here was referred to us by somebody who we develop relationships with, who were proud enough to recommend us to them. They were— because I serve on a lot of boards, they were members of boards that could kind of see me in action as a member of their board. It was like indirect selling. And virtually every one of those not-for-profits that asked me to be on a board, I answered to them was, "absolutely I understand the mission". And I said, "what would you want to do?" But my goal would be to be chairman of this board. I don't want to be a board member who comes to a monthly or quarterly meeting and somebody says, "all those in favor say 'I'". And everybody raises their hand and they get a free lunch, they go home. I don't want to be that person. I want to make a difference and be able to lead the board or lead the charity in a way they can make it more influential in the community. And fortunately all those cases that was— that happened. 

Owen: And it seems like some of the things you were talking about about becoming a filet burger and not just a regular burger, you go out and get these experiences and from these experiences is where you make connections and where you network, and it seems like that's definitely been a huge part of your success. So transitioning to your job at Campbell Ewald. Can you explain a little bit about your work there and your work with Chevy specifically?

Jim Berline: Sure. After grad school in Illinois, I knew I wanted to get into advertising but when you make that choice you can go one of two ways. You can go be a client or you can go be an agency person. And I didn't really understand the difference between. So I went for a brief period of time with RCA and RCA had a program where they were going to hire six college grads around the country and they could go at any subsidiary company or division of RCA, work for whomever they wanted, stay for however long they wanted, and do whatever they wanted. So shit I can't miss on this one. And there were five Ivy league guys and me. So I was the token non-ivy leaguer. 

Ethan: Yeah. 

Jim Berline: And I ended up going to Indianapolis and worked on RCA TVs. Went to Boston and worked— when RCA was trying to get into the computer business, [INAUDIBLE]. I then went to New York for RCA records. Went to St. Louis, they own Banquet Foods. And in all of those different experiences, I kept watching the agencies they work with and kept watching the advertising, marketing people on the corporate side. I said, "I don't want to be here. I want to be on that side". And people on the client side have the budgets, they have the problem, they have their product, but they would give it to the agencies to solve the problem.

And I wanted to be on the solution side. And so I, partly I think because of my football reputation, a lot of the execs at Campbell Ewald were season ticket holders, so they— I had a good opportunity to go there. So I came back from RCA in Boston and went to work at Campbell Ewald on Chevy. Chevrolet was the largest brand in the world at the time.

So, I worked on— in marketing their wrote a strategic plan for Campbell Ewald, Chevy. And then they put me out in the field in Dallas to work with Chevy dealers, five or six states. Sports connection was cool because on weekends, Chevrolet was the sponsor of the College Football Scholarship Program.

My job was to be at— on the field at all these Texas, Oklahoma and the big games and go get the athletic director after the game and bring them over to get the Chevy scholarship. I'm getting [INAUDIBLE] and all these— Darrell Royal and all those famous coaches and I would have to wait till one of the announcers, [INAUDIBLE] would say what college is gonna— what side was gonna get it.

Then I'd have to go get the coach and bring them over. That was kind of fun. And then on Sundays, I'd go to the professional golf tournaments that Chevy sponsored. So weekends were golf tournaments and football games, which was cool. And then I was able to get that SMU PhD thing going and still do what I thought I was doing during the week.

And then I wrote this paper at Campbell Ewald and at that time the government was beginning to get involved in the regulation of advertising. There was the Better Business Bureau, but there was no governmental authority to make things ethical. Because I wrote this thesis on the difference between government and— self-regulation and government regulation. And I sent it back to the Chairman of the Board of Campbell Ewald who's up four levels between he and me. And he got it, read it, and promoted me back. And they had just been acquired by Interpublic, which they became a publicly owned company. And he kind of became the— kind of like the guru of that discipline because I kind of brought him up to speed with this paper I wrote. And then I got involved in the Chevy truck business and the Chevy truck account.

And I was like 27 and it was the number one truck selling brand in the world. Great opportunity, I was really young to do that. And that's when BBDO called and said, "would you like to have dinner Sunday?" Sure, free steak why not?  

Owen: Exactly.

Jim Berline: So I met this⁠—

Ethan: There's the filet you're looking for.

Jim Berline: ⁠That's right. So I met this exec he said, "we'd like you to come to BBDO".

I said, "okay, what would I do when I got there?" We want you to run the Dodge truck account. And I said, "so you want me to leave Chevy, which is the largest truck brand, number one, to come over here to run Dodge, which is number three". I don't think so. It doesn't make any sense. So I said "I'm flattered, but I'm gonna stay at Campbell Ewald". A couple months later I got an envelope there was a round trip ticket to New York. He said, "we want you to be at BBDO and here's a ticket to get there. And when you get here you can decide what you want to do". I still have the ticket. 

Owen: Wow.

Jim Berline: I never used it and I got another call, maybe six months later, said the president of BBDO wants to fly you out here and have dinner with you. Okay, another steak. So I met him and they said, "we're going to give you an offer. you can't refuse". Okay. And I'm 28 I think at the time. So we want you to come to the BBDO now and run the Dodge car business, the Dodge truck business, all the Dodge dealer associations in the country, our Mitsubishi business and Mopar. 

Owen: Wow. 

Jim Berline: Now I'm thinking they're crazy. You give me this and I'm 28 and I'm thinking, but I'm crazy if I don't do it because if I fail I was supposed to fail I'm too young. And if I succeed, man I'm a wunderkind because how could he do that? So I resigned from Campbell Ewald and started with BBDO. And when I got to BBDO they told me, "Oh, we forgot to tell you we're on probation with Chrysler and we have 90 days to fix it". 

Owen: Uh oh. 

Jim Berline: So that's what I'm saying. Uh oh. So it isn't just taking on these big brands, it's saving the biggest account BBDO has. So we⁠—

Owen: As a 28 year old. 

Jim Berline: Yeah.

Ethan: And what was your official title at the time when you switched over to BBDO? 

Jim Berline: I was⁠— I came in as the Vice President and an Account Director. 

Ethan: Okay. 

Jim Berline: And then titles change quickly. 

Ethan: Yeah. 

Jim Berline: And so we ended up⁠— we had about, I don't know, four or five hundred people. We ended up firing over 300 and replacing them with better, higher quality, kind of like a George Steinbrenner effect. We're just going to find all-stars and it's going to be an immediate impact. I've already got the attention of Chrysler. So, that's what we did and then they promoted me to Senior Vice President and that's again, the youngest senior vice president.

Campbell Ewald made me the youngest Vice President they gave me and then BBDO to reward me for kind of getting us off probation. And that's when the economy was crummy and Chrysler was going South. And so they hired Iacocca from Ford. So Iacocca and I got along really well, personally. But then one day we get a call from Lee and we've been the agency for Dodge, Dodge truck, and all the Dodge dealers for 35 years.

Most of the people at the agency had never worked anywhere other than BBDO. And he said, "I'm going to fire you and when I hang up the phone, I'm going to call Y&R, because they were doing the Chrysler Plymouth brands, fire them. And when I hang up from them, I'm going to call [INAUDIBLE] and fire them".

And they were doing training and catalogs and that stuff. So a 35 year relationship ended in about 15 seconds and then I'm thinking, what the hell do I do now? And Iacocca had hired his Lincoln Mercury agency over cause he knew them. So there's a Lincoln mercury brand now that's available. So the agencies he fired that all went and fought for the account that was now available: Lincoln Mercury. 

Ethan: Yeah. 

Jim Berline: So I did the pitch for BBDO to keep it and Y&R won it and Y&R hired me to come over and run it on their side. 

Ethan: Wow.

Jim Berline: So then I would join Y&R but I had to fire all these people before which was really hard cause again you're firing people who had never looked for a job. They'd been there 37 years, they didn't do anything wrong. They got families, they got kids in college and it was really hard for me to— and I grew up a lot then. 

Ethan: Yeah. 

Jim Berline: I'll never forget the one guy that I called in and he knew what we were going to talk about and before we started, he opened his— he brought in a photo that was his kids and his wife, he put right in front of him.

Okay, now what are we going to talk about? So I knew what I was going to say was going to affect his family. 

Ethan: That's so tough.

Jim Berline: Oh, it was really hard. So anyway, I ended up going to Y&R and with a promise I'd get out of the car business. I'd go to them but I didn't want to be on Lincoln Mercury. So went to New York, went through there— had a Harvard case study kind of a competition.

And, so 12 weeks and I was the highest level person Y&R had ever hired from outside because they were a promotion from within privately held firm. After the 12 weeks, I went there and I kind of thought I was at a relationship with the chairman who had played football at Rutgers.

I said, "okay, I got somebody who I can trust here". So I go to Sam, "okay am I going to work on Dr. Pepper or Visa or Delta airlines? What's my account?" He said, "we've got a problem and the problem is that we had seven senior vice presidents resign because of you". Excuse me, what did I do wrong? I just did a good job in what you wanted me to do.

You recruited me and now you're telling me that I've— the solo guy from the Midwest can completely screw up the largest privately owned agency in the business. I said, "that makes no sense". So guess what? The house I just bought in Westport, Connecticut, you own it. The— and I'm out of here. I'm not going to work for a company that lets its employees dictate rather than the management and the leadership.

And I came back to Detroit, my wife was pregnant at the time. I said, "guess what? We're not moving to New York, that house we bought in Connecticut you like, we're not going to keep it. The "For Sale" sign we had in Birmingham, pull it out of the ground and I don't know what I'm going to do. So came back and that's when I started an  agency.

Owen: Wow, that's incredible career trajectory. Very, very impressive. So for those first years through those companies, there's like a theme of you staying there for a couple of years, for a few years, and then leaving to another company. However, when you got into your own agency, BERLINE, it's now been going for 37 years.

Can you talk about how you've been able to keep this longevity and keep the success of BERLINE for 37 straight years? 

Jim Berline: Sure, one thing that I'm going to piggyback on the BBDO thing because  after Iacocca fired everybody and it goes back to that thing I talked about relationships. He told BBDO, they got the account back, to come and bring me back to run the business. This is two years after I left and was two years into this— my own company. And I said, "why would I— I wouldn't know how to price my company. You guys want to buy it and you want me to come back? And then I did something crazy. I said, I'll come back under one condition: that you make all the resources available of BBDO to my company, you allow me to keep my company, the profit sharing that I had before you restore it, and you can't tell me where I'm going to be every day. It was just so bizarre that no way would they say yes and you have to pay me this. And they said, "okay". And they said, there's one more thing.

We have to go have— tell— meet with Iacocca. And this has to be okay with him. I'm going to be running my company and his at— work at his at the same time. And I'd be shocked if he said, "yes". So the President of BBDO and I went and saw Iacocca. We laid out this scenario that I was gonna keep my company. And he said, "you guys are crazy".

And I said, "well, Mr. Iacocca, if you hold me responsible for the sale of Dodge cars and trucks, I'm in every meeting you want me to be wherever it is, what do you care?" And it was enough of an Iacocca kind of comment, he said, "you know, you're right, let's try it". They put me in as office of the Chairman so I met with— on his little committee and I kept my company.

And, two years later, I, I was doing both. And they put me on the Board of Directors at BBDO New York. So I'm flying to New York and we're, you know, talking about the biggest brands they got, we're buying media that's 20 million, 50 million. I'm running back here and pitching to a furniture store with a $50,000 budget.

Run it down to Chrysler we're in a big meeting with Iacocca. Flying back to my agency and it was like nuts—

Owen: Crazy. 

Jim Berline: —and I was going to die. I just didn't know where they'd find me but the other agencies then started to come after my accounts here at BERLINE because they said, "look, eventually he's going to sell to BBDO anyway.

So if you want to be at BBDO go there, if not, why are you there cause he's going to leave. 

Owen: Yeah. 

Jim Berline: And we lost a couple of pieces of business and that's when I said, "look, I want to build my own agency". Called Iacocca said, "look, I really appreciate the opportunity but I want to be an entrepreneur".

And, you know, he said, "if I couldn't be one at Chrysler, I wouldn't be here either". He said, "I agree with you, go for it". And I think it's been every year for about seven or eight years, I get a call or a letter from him on that day. How's it going? You know, no regrets—

Owen: Yeah.

Jim Berline: —blah, blah, blah. It was really cool. 

Owen: That's amazing.

Jim Berline: But that motivated me to make sure I didn't fail.

Ethan: And how long were you doing that where you were— you had your own agency— 

Jim Berline: Two years.

Ethan: Two years.

Jim Berline: Where I was at BBDO— and they made me Executive Vice President and a member of the board. Two years doing that and trying to keep us— build us. 

Ethan: And what was your time split like between the two? 

Jim Berline: It depended on the day. I mean, it would— it could be six o'clock in the morning here and I'd fly to Highland Park to be in an eight o'clock meeting there, fly back here for an eleven o'clock meeting back down there for four o'clock.

Owen: Wow.

Jim Berline: Then I wanted to coach my son's soccer team. I'd try and get there to coach so I didn't— so I still had a personal life. So I kept getting up earlier and earlier so that my kids didn't know where I was when they were sleeping so that I could be somewhat available to be a dad. 

Owen: So we have an extremely young audience and in today's world, in today's society, it feels like you need to always be doing something to get that edge over your competitors. Can you explain to the audience how you were able to balance all these things and all the stuff you took on? 

Ethan: And how many hours a night— and how many hours of sleep a night were you getting at this time? 

Jim Berline: Oh, there could be four hours some days— there was a week— I know there was a couple of weeks when I flew to New York every day. Every morning I was on a six o' five to New York. I get creative at BBDO, fly back, present it, fly back, and do it every day. And it was like crazy, but it was like a cool story for a while. 

Ethan: You probably had some great rewards miles built up.

Jim Berline: Yeah, no, they didn't have them in those days.

Ethan: That's true.

Jim Berline: I'd be on the flight, I'd be the only one on a 747. But the biggest thing for young people is that you're not going to— you're not entitled to anything. There are a lot of smart, young people and the biggest frustration I have when I meet them and interview them is that they think because they went to college that they're entitled to certain benefits.

They're entitled to certain salary range. They're entitled to titles. And my attitude is so those are all available to you, but you have to earn them. It's not just because you, for example, went to Michigan and you were a 3.9 student and you've done "x" in your life that I need to pay you twice as much as you're worth to me and give you the title that you haven't earned yet.

Those are all available, but you got to be valuable to me too. It's a two way street. And the one thing about millennials that I really think is right is there's a— I don't want to say philanthropic but there's a giving back common denominator that they want to make a difference in the world. And they want to do good things for people.

But if you—  you can't have everything. You know, you can't be in a position to do all those good things and take time, whatever you want from your career to go do those things, and expect to have all the rewards and all the gratification without paying the price to get there. So you got to— again, work on building relationships from the day you get out of college because you never know which ones are going to be— that kid in the next room someday could be CEO of a company—

Owen: Yep. 

Jim Berline: —or the lady you met at a Make-A-Wish event could be a chief marketing officer someday. And when you walk in to compete with other agencies and you know her and she remembers the way you reacted to her, all of the sudden the field is not level anymore. Decisions are based on people, not always based on who's the smartest.

So I think that's an important insight that I think I'm not sure universities communicate to students. 

Owen: Yeah.

Ethan: Yeah, I think execution is keen. That's what Owen and I always talk about is it's very easy to get caught in that mindset that you were talking about of being entitled. So we always say, it's kind of brash, but we're like, you gotta go be dirt, like you have to be dirt. You gotta—

Jim Berline: Yeah.

Ethan: You gotta— you gotta work— you gotta earn everything that you get and you can't have that mindset. And I think those are the people that will end up coming out victorious are the people that know what they're worth and know their skill set, but are willing to come out of college and prove to others their worth and show others what they have to offer.

It's not just a simple entry in, you have to really build yourself up from the ground. 

Jim Berline: Absolutely and I use football analogies with young people and I say, "you know, there are a lot of good kickers and a lot of good receivers and a lot of good quarterbacks. The more disciplines you could be good at the more valuable you are to a business and particularly even a startup, if you can be the kicker and the blocker and the receiver and— there are always economic cutbacks. The ones who can do one thing are the first one's leaving. The ones who can do three or four or five things are the ones that are gonna stay.

Owen: Yeah. 

Jim Berline: Because they're more valuable, they're indispensable and in a startup, the more you can do in a startup, the more valuable you are because funds are critical. And if you're a founder, you gotta learn how to do a lot of things. And if you're with a big company and they're going to have a thousand people laid off Friday, I'll tell you the ones who can do accounting and engineering and write a business plan are going to be there next Monday.

Ethan: Right.

Jim Berline: And the ones who can only write a business plan, aren't going to be there next Monday. 

Ethan: Right. You gotta be a Swiss army knife.

Jim Berline: Absolutely, absolutely. 

Ethan: And where have— have you been a big reader throughout your career? Do you get some outside of the work education through reading? 

Jim Berline: I read, you know, like I still read newspapers only because I find them more tangible.

Ethan: Yeah. 

Jim Berline: But I will say today that I read the Wall Street Journal. I read trade publications. We didn't talk at all about, [INAUDIBLE] seven years into Harvard Business School, trying to get the equivalent of an MBA there. 

Ethan: Wow. 

Jim Berline: And the networking there is amazing. Cause I'm in an organization called YPO.

Ethan & Owen: Yep.

Jim Berline: Which is made up of all CEOs. So I've been in that and was president of that last year, but there's a program at Harvard for only YPO people. And it's a nine year program. So after nine years you kind of get an MBA. But the networking there is amazing because all you're doing is dealing with CEOs of companies from all over the world. And it gives you so much— builds your network, but it gives you an opportunity to share experiences in other businesses that you never get and it's just phenomenal. You can use that with your current clients. Well, shit I was talking to a CEO of a utility in South Africa and here's what they're doing. And that might apply to what you're doing over here. 

Ethan & Owen: Yeah.

Jim Berline: And one of— it raises the perception that people have a view and it came up anecdotally.

It didn't come up because I went around telling people I'm in YPO and I went to Harvard. It came up indirectly by helping him with something in his business and "how do you know that?" Well, because I had the opportunity to meet this guy. Yeah. And it was more about, don't tell people, let them tell you. 

Owen: So back to something I alluded to earlier. Your agency has been around for 37 years. Can you explain exactly how you've been able to sustain success over this long period of time? 

Jim Berline: Well, yeah, okay. Early on, I talked about my partner, but she has a PhD in psychology as opposed to media. And we both own the agency and we'd been here since day one. And we agree on the outcome of everything and probably disagree on how you get there on everything.

So it's a great match of approaches but early on, we decided that our brand was going to be— we were going to provide our clients like big agencies do in terms of intellectual horsepower and the strategic thinking, so that our clients didn't have to compromise if they didn't want to pay the exorbitant rates of a [INAUDIBLE].

But we were going to do that in a entrepreneurial, cost-effective, responsive way. And that's kind of been our position from the beginning. So our clients never have to compromise and they don't feel like they're getting lesser. They're just getting principles of an agency working on their business rather than somebody who's rotating through their career.

We still have our first account we ever got: total healthcare. Our Wendy's account started as one market. We now have 37. We have clients who started with us in one job and have been in five different organizations since, and we've been the agency in every organization they've been in because of— we built a relationship with them that they could trust.

And they didn't have to then worry about their agency. They didn't have to worry about marketing because they trusted us as a partner. It goes back to relationships. 

Owen: It seems like that's the common theme throughout this entire interview. 

Ethan: Yeah. I guess we should start wrapping it up here because we've gotten so much great—

Jim Berline: I apologize if I've been rambling a bit.

Ethan: No, no, no we just want to be cognizant of your time. So I guess before we leave, I really just have three more short questions for you. The first one being, what is something that college kids today should be doing that maybe aren't? Maybe it's something that's been lost over the years or is there something specific that you see in youth today that you wish or you think would drastically help them post college?

Jim Berline: Well, I guess, going back to the hamburger/filet, what you guys are doing is exactly what I think will separate you from the other people you're going to compete with one day. You're going to learn how to start a business, you're gonna learn how to do it on a nickel and a dime, and you're going to stub your toe a few times and then you're going to figure it out and make it whatever you want to make it.

Students who do those kinds of things are going to be much more valuable to a business and they're going— their percentage rate in starting a business is going to be much higher. It's going to be easier for you to get investors. It's going to be easier for you to get clients when you've done it and you've learned from it. Cause you've talked the talk differently. 

Ethan: Yeah. 

Jim Berline: The words you use will be different than somebody who comes right out of an econ class or an accounting class. It isn't the same. So I'd encourage younger people to take some chances to not use their spare time to— every spare minute to be in a softball league or to go down to the bar and watch the hockey game, but to build their brand—

Ethan: Yeah. 

Jim Berline: —in a way that has value.

Owen: Yeah. 

Ethan: And then we talk a lot about success on this show. What does success mean to you? In however long that takes you to define it. 

Jim Berline: But again, I think that my measure of success changed as I got older. 

Ethan: Yeah. 

Jim Berline: And it went from being able to send my kids to private schools and private colleges and belong to private clubs to work out and play golf and have a nice car and a nice house.

Even a second house. And then I realized when I kind of— Alex's wish that whole— that what the hell did all of that matter. It's nice to have it but that shouldn't be my motivation. And now, you know, the way I measure success is can I provide a nice quality of life to my family? But, can we do things with our resources and our expertise and our relationships to help other people, who are much more disadvantaged, no fault of their own. Nobody made Alex get cancer.

Ethan: Right.

Jim Berline: And all these leukemia kids and, you know, it was a luck of the draw. And with CATCH, we provide over half a million dollars to kids in Detroit who don't have the basic necessities to survive. They leave the hospital in a wheelchair and they don't have a wheelchair ramp to get in their house.

They leave with medication that has to be refrigerated and either there's no power in their house, they have a refrigerator, or there's no refrigerator. The hospital gives them, okay, you're on your own and so CATCH is there to do all those things that the system doesn't always do. And every time we have a board meeting, you leave there feeling good about what you did—

Ethan: yeah.

Jim Berline: —because the medical staff tells us how our money was spent the previous couple of months. And a lot of people here, at the agency, have an opportunity to work on those kinds of accounts by doing invitations and annual reports they get to see [INAUDIBLE] of making a difference. So that's the way I kind of measure success.

I still want to have a— win squash tournaments, still want to have a low golf handicap, but if I don't win the next golf event, it isn't the end of the day. 20 years ago, I might've gone right to the range and you know—

Owen: Yeah.

 —hit balls the rest of the night. I probably won't do that now. 

Ethan: Right. 

Jim Berline: Putting things in perspective.

Owen: Yep. Alright well, thank you  so much, Jim. We really appreciate your time and enjoyed your interview. Thank you. 

Jim Berline: Thanks for inviting me. 

Ethan: And before we head off, is there any last parting wisdom or anything that you've wanted to say that you haven't had the opportunity to, yet, up until this point?

Jim Berline: No, I, you know,— family is really important so don't misuse that. I have three kids and a great wife. She's equally competitive. Won the Nike silver metal at the Nike World Games as a race walker. My daughter's an award winning photographer. My son was a national champion squash player, four-time All-American in college, won the Skillman Award, which is the equivalent of Heisman, but he won it as much on sportsmanship as he did on skill.

Ethan: Yeah. 

Jim Berline: And my youngest is a medical assistant and comes here most days, so they're so different but I'm proud of what they become as people and I guess that's a measurement of success as well. 

Owen: Definitely. 

Ethan: Jim, thank you so much! These were really profound sentiments, thank you. 

Jim Berline: Thank you for inviting me.

Owen: Thank you for tuning into the Power of 2 podcast. Ethan and I are two college students looking to inspire our generation and the ones to follow by sharing the stories of unique individuals. If you enjoyed the episode, make sure you're subscribed to get notified when a new episode is released and follow us on Instagram @Baimbrothers for exclusive content. You can also check us out on baimbrothers.com for more information.

Catch us on the next episode of the Power of 2... PEACE!