Advocacy Talks with Vision Ireland
Welcome to Advocacy Talks from Vision Ireland. Hosted by Madeleine McNamara, Advocacy Talks aims to bring you conversations with interesting people about blindness, advocacy, and everything in between.
Contact the advocacy team at Vision Ireland by emailing campaigns@VI.ie .
Advocacy Talks with Vision Ireland
Advocacy Talks Episode 7 - Please, Please, please, Clear Our Paths!!!
On this episode of Advocacy Talks, we speak to Roisin Lenehan and Deirdre Deverell about the 2025 Clear Our Paths campaign.
From bins and cars to branches and dog poo, temporary obstacles on footpaths create risks for those who are blind or vision impaired, as well as just being a general pain.
With 16% of people requiring a hospital or doctor’s visit following an encounter with a temporary obstacle, we have one simple message:
Please, please, please, Clear Our Paths!!!
Welcome to Advocacy Talks, a podcast from the advocacy team at Vision Ireland. Here's what's coming up on this episode.
SPEAKER_04:The wheelie bins would be a big issue because some of the footpaths down here could be very narrow. For me to try and get past it, it can sometimes lead that I have to go out onto the road. The same for overhanging trees and branches. There's one section you're talking about a very, very busy section of the roads because it's beside a McDonald's and it's beside a roundabout. And
SPEAKER_00:now, here's Madeleine McNamara.
SPEAKER_01:Hello, everybody. Madeline here again. And thank you so much for joining me on Vision Ireland's Advocacy Talks again. This week in Vision Ireland, we are running our Clear Our Paths campaign. And it's all about raising awareness of the challenges that temporary obstacles on footpaths pose for people who are blind and vision impaired. So we thought, what would be the best way of raising that awareness other than to talk to people who are directly impacted by these temporary obstacles on our footpaths? So I'm delighted to be joined by two of our service users from different parts of the country. We have the wonderful Roisin Lenehan and Deirdre Deverell. So welcome both of you to advocacy talks. Thank you. Thank you. You're very welcome. It's fantastic. So I thought we'd just start off by just asking you both to kind of introduce yourselves a little bit, let people know who you are and where you're from. So Roisin, over to you. Where are you based?
SPEAKER_04:I'm from County Mayo. It's in the west of Ireland and I'm 24 years of age and I'm completely blind. And I use a long white cane, which everyone probably knows.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Oh, fantastic. Thank you. So we're over there and I'm sure you're having a wonderful time over there at the moment. We've had a wonderful summer so far, which is good.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah,
SPEAKER_01:exactly. Fantastic. We'll enjoy it while it lasts anyway. And Deirdre, how about you? Maybe you could introduce yourself to our listeners.
SPEAKER_02:Hello, I'm Deirdre and I'm the opposite end of the country to Roisin. I'm in County Dublin in a small town called Dalkey and I am a guide dog user. I have been blind for about seven years and I've had my guide dog for six of those years. And I'm now age 67, so I have been sighted for the best part of my life. And now I'm blind for, say,
SPEAKER_01:the last seven years. OK, so different experiences for both of you, because I think, Roshan, am I right, that you've always had sight loss?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I was born blind.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so very different experiences. And I think that's an interesting one to maybe talk a little bit about in terms of obstacles and how we kind of view them. And just for people who don't know, I'm also vision impaired, but I do have sight. So I'm not completely blind. I would have low vision. But temporary obstacles also have an impact on me. So I think it's interesting today to kind of get the different perspectives from three different people with different levels of sight, but also using different mobility aids. So, you know, Roisin using a long cane and Deirdre using a guide dog. So, you know, I think that's kind of an interesting thing to kind of make people aware of that there are different levels of sight, different ways that people manage that and the fact that temporary obstacles impact us all. So when we're talking about temporary obstacles, just to kind of make that kind of clear for people we're talking about those things that the members of the public in particular can do something about we're not talking about the pavements which can be you know uneven or whatever we're talking about those things like cars being illegally parked on footpaths we're talking about dog fouling overhanging branches um wheelie bins being left in the middle of of the path um and uh what else street furniture so i guess just to talk to each of you and to say you know What is your experience of obstacles on the footpath? So, Roisin, in terms of yourself in Mayo, what is your experience of obstacles and what would you generally find is problematic? The
SPEAKER_04:wheelie bins would be a big issue because some of the footpaths down here could be very narrow. And... for me to try and get past it, it can sometimes lead that I have to go out onto the road, especially if I have someone guiding me as well. One of us, if not both of us, would have to go out onto the road. The same for overhanging trees and branches. There's one section up near where I go to the gym in Lough Lanagh, in Castle Bear, and they're is one piece of the footpath there that at least one of us would have to go out onto the road if we can't get through single file. And you're talking about a very, very busy section of the road because it's beside a McDonald's and it's beside a roundabout. Wow. So... And cars go flying up and down that road. Another thing would be the cars parked up on the footpath. That would be another obstacle I would face regularly, at least once a week, if not more. Yeah. And that would lead to me going out onto the road as well to get past. Dog foul would be another thing because Like, I can't see the dog fowl and my cane can't tell me that there's a fowl there. No.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so at least a car or whatever, a car, your cane, you can detect. Yeah. And the wheelie bin. And the wheelie bin, but the dog fowling, you can't.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, or like the overhanging trees and branches, they could be up high. Yeah. My cane wouldn't detect them. So then I end up getting my hands scratched. Well, thankfully, it's only been my hands that I've received scratches from. But like that, it could be worse. No, it's not.
SPEAKER_01:yeah yeah yeah and it's awful because as you say you've got no deterrent against that because your cane can't detect the overhanging branches because they're not on the ground they're up high and i know we've had reports of people you know who have injuries of i know myself you know even with some sight those the branches and walking in and get kind of getting in your face and you know it's it's it's not pleasant at all um you know and and sometimes a tree overhanging and it kind of can be quite a hard branch and you kind of walk in your head and you feel so stupid apart from everything else as well yeah no that's not pleasant at all so yeah and dog fouling I think is such a horrible one isn't it because have you had experiences where
SPEAKER_04:you could be walking around with dog foul all over your cane and your shoes without you realizing it
SPEAKER_01:yeah
SPEAKER_04:And then, like, you know, you could be bringing that into, say, someone's house or your own house or someone's business, do you know?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And you're not doing it deliberately. And then if you don't know it's on your cane and you fold it up, there's then the risk of getting that on your hands and everything as well, isn't there? I know myself, I rely a lot on my sense of smell, which sounds ridiculous, but if I'm out and I... I'm kind of conscious, oh, do I smell? But then I can't necessarily find it. You know, dog fouling, because I don't know how long it's been there or whatever. But, you know, and then you're kind of picking up your shoes. Is there anything trying to smell? Is there something there? And it is. It's horrible. It really, really is horrible. And I get, you know, the point we're trying to make is that these are things that the members of the public can do something about, you know. Exactly. so that we don't have to be challenged by these things.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, like, you know, a friend of mine said to me, there, a few months ago, like, you know, people with guide dogs have to pick up after their dog. Why can't sighted
SPEAKER_01:people do the same? Exactly. Well, that's a very good bridge to Deirdre, because being a guide dog owner, Deirdre, you know, maybe you could kind of tell us a little bit about the challenges that you face and how they might be different from someone with a long cane.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, well, I'll start with the dog fowl, since that's the topic that's on the agenda there at the moment, and reiterate what Roshan is saying, that obviously I pick up after my dog, who's called Bruno, by the way. And he's gorgeous,
SPEAKER_01:we have to say
SPEAKER_02:that
SPEAKER_01:as
SPEAKER_02:well. You both have met Bruno. We have. I would always, I'd be absolutely shocked to think that anybody doesn't pick up after their dog our area is quite bad a lot of people come out this direction walking especially at weekends and the pavements can be quite bad now what my dog does if there's dog poo in the way he just literally brings me around it and I often I'm totally unaware because I can go for quite a long walk and not be aware that there was any dog foul on the path so Bruno is wonderful in that respect and You know, if there's somebody with me, they might comment on this afterwards that, you know, he did very well. He brought you around. The only problem is if it's in a spot that he can't bring me around. So if the path is too narrow or there's another obstacle or something, then he just has to stop. And when he stops dead, this is kind of one of the problems with a guide dog. He's refusing to budge, but I don't know why.
SPEAKER_03:And
SPEAKER_02:my immediate reaction is to put out my arm to feel, is there an obstacle right in front of me like a bin or a car or something like that? And then I might put my head up in case it's an overhanging branch or a hedge or something. And then I start gingerly poking around at my foot because not only could it be dog foul, it could be broken glass or it could be a trip hazard. only this week I met a coil of bunting that people were putting up to herald a festival that was coming up soon and they were unwinding a coil of bunting and that was right in the middle of the pavement and Bruno stopped at it. I never, that's the first time I've encountered that. So I think with a cane you can feel around and you get an idea but when Bruno refuses to move you actually have to wait until you can figure out what it is and how to deal with it. Interestingly he refused to move one day when I was on the path and I couldn't figure it out I had to wait until another pedestrian came along and said look my dog is refusing to move can you tell me is there any hazardous you know thing in the way and they told me that there was a cat sitting there Right in front of him with his paw poised, ready to swipe. Oh, wow. So the cat held its ground and we had to go around onto the road and circle the cat. cat was not budging from its gateway yeah that's so funny that was an interesting one but the dog is good but they can't talk to you unfortunately they have the same warning sign which is stop and refuse to move uh until we figure out what the problem is and what Roshi was saying about the wheel bins um is a nuisance and that is something the public can do which is take in their bins as early as possible in the day because you know you encounter bins um early in the morning which is fair enough when they have to be put out for the collection lorries but you know five six o'clock in the evening you know I kind of feel there's not much excuse for people still to have their bins out on bin day um not that many people nowadays I think are out at work all day without somebody in the household you know maybe coming in or coming out to bring in the bin you're both aware of the road in Drumcondra Whitworth Road that leads down to the Vision Ireland Training Centre and Head Office and on a Wednesday it's the one day of the week that I attend there and I encounter I would say 20 or 30 I must count them someday bins on my way down and that's at lunchtime and when I'm going home at about you know maybe three o'clock it's there's still plenty and plenty of bins and It's something the public could be aware of because there's a lot of blind and low vision people walking down Glitterworth Road with canes and dogs and etc. And I kind of feel if the residents there were made aware to pull in their bins as early as possible or even pull in a bin for a neighbour, the next door neighbour's gateway as well. And that's something I was kind of thinking about some Wednesdays as I'm walking down that, you know, maybe... a campaign for the residents there because it's a particularly heavy traffic for service users along that stretch. I'm particularly unlucky because I have a bin day locally here on a Thursday. So I get two bin days in my week. I get one on the Wednesday, one locally on a Thursday. So I have a double family with the bins.
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely. It is a universal problem, though, the bins, isn't it? Because you say we're all having to do that, put our bins out, you know, for the bin lorry and then bring them back in. And yes, absolutely. I think it's very right in saying to encourage people to bring them in as soon as they can, because the bins generally, the lorries do come early in the morning, not exclusively. And I guess that's where we need to kind of be sort of talking to the bin men or women who are doing that that they at least put the bins back in against the wall so that there's some consistency because I think that's the trouble if bins are just sort of left when they're being once they've been emptied and often we find that the problem is that they're not put back against the wall they're just sort of put in the middle of the path and then that makes it even more challenging doesn't it
SPEAKER_02:Sometimes you have to choose which side of the bin to go. And I can feel Bruno hesitate to see whether he go on the inside between the bin and maybe a railings or on the outside, which is maybe the edge of the curb onto a road and the bin. So it's definitely much easier if the bins are tucked in well. Yeah,
SPEAKER_01:yeah. It gives consistency and you then know how to manage it, which is which is good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And have you ever had any kind of injuries yourself, Deirdre?
SPEAKER_02:Fortunately, not an injury. The overhanging branches, like what you're saying, if they're thorny, I've had them catch my hair or face as I walk under them. And this time of year is particularly bad because they can be cut back and with all this heat and moisture they can shoot out like quite a long tendril overnight practically and so where you know you might have had a clear walk one day the next day could have a very long tendril and I find wearing glasses as a help it kind of just gives you just that little bit extra barrier and I know I don't particularly like wearing visors or peaked caps but they certainly can help as well but again householders if they realized you know what might be a obvious for a sighted person just to move a couple of inches around one we can get smack smack on the face so no serious injury thankfully but very annoying it is very
SPEAKER_01:annoying and i just think it gives you a bit of a fright i know myself it does if you suddenly brush into something um you haven't been expecting i mean i i guess like all of us you know we know our roots we know we generally are people who are blind and vision impaired it's the nature is that we're often we're going very similar routes until you get to know where the kind of danger spots are, I guess. Where is that hedge going to be? But you have to be constantly on alert then. It's not relaxing, I think, in the same way maybe as for other people walking about every day just walking not concentrating really where they're going, looking at their phones, which is not necessarily brilliant, but we have to, we can't do that. I think, you know, we're having to concentrate on where, where is that going to be? Yeah, no, I think that's, that's an interesting one. And I, so just to stay with you a bit more, Deirdre, in terms of just thinking about, you know, you're in a situation where, unfortunately, you've lost your sight. And I'm just wondering what your perspective would be if you think back to when you were sighted. And, you know, would it have been something that you were aware of then? I guess just interesting to get that kind of thought process as a sighted person.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely not, Madeline. I wouldn't have had any concept as to what it would have been like with street furniture, overhanging branches, no concept whatsoever. The only thing I might have thought about would have been, say, for buggies or flea chairs, you know, like cars parked. You know, I'd seen buggy, you know, mums having to go out on roads and things like that or a wheelchair user being stuck in a situation. Because I know there are, is it over 50,000 people who identify as low vision or blind?
SPEAKER_01:More now. It's actually nearly 300,000. In the last census, it was 296,000 people. So it's a big chunk of the population It certainly is. But to
SPEAKER_02:be honest, I don't think I was aware of the hazards. And I think that is a huge problem because, you know, we can talk among ourselves and say, oh, gosh, this is, you know, things need to be done. But I think my friends have become so much more aware from having been out and about with me. And they all admit that they would have been unaware as well as to hazards. let's take street furniture, you know, on the pavement, tables and chairs, you know, sitting down, having lunch, chatting away. I don't think any of us have thought, gosh, I wonder, is a blind or vision impaired person now going to have difficulty getting by us? I think you're just glad to find your table outside the cafe and say, oh, great, here, there's room. Oh, bring over another chair. There's now five of us. I really don't think it would have crossed our minds. It does now. I've often had people say to me, oh, they were in such and such a place the other day and you would have hated it or I realised it would have been very difficult for you, even to the extent that people, when they go on holiday, say, you know, we were in such and such a city. And, oh, dear, you'd love it. It's very accessible. Oh, dear, you'd hate it. It's narrow paths, all broken and hilly. And, you know, so I've raised awareness amongst my own people. family and friends i think but really i think you need that personal experience or witness a personal um i i would imagine that a lot of people in my area now are more conscious of it because of me walking through every day through the town and um you know i'm hoping that um that that's doing good for everybody, you know, in a way that, you know, when people see it firsthand, it does make them more aware.
SPEAKER_01:I think that's so true. And I think, as you say, I think people are just generally going around their daily business and aren't aware, unless you have some sort of connection, some, you know, somebody or whatever, you just don't realise. And that's why we have this campaign on a yearly basis to try and kind of raise that awareness and get it out beyond, which is always a challenge to get the message out beyond our own community, I think, isn't it? You know, we kind of, you can feel like you're just talking to the converter And we're trying to get this message beyond that, get it to the general public to make people aware. And you've done great work over the years, Roisin, too, in terms of your advocacy in this space, haven't you, with various interviews and things like that?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I have. So hopefully it'll keep going. And who knows, maybe someday people might get the message. But that could be wishful hoping as well, on the other hand.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, I think we've always got to be hopeful. You know, I think we do. And I think we have to recognise this, you know, just because we've said it once doesn't mean we shouldn't keep saying it. And, you know, there's new people that are going to hear the message and pass it on. And I think what we would be encouraging is that, you know, within our own community that we're talking about it to friends and family, absolutely, to sort of make people aware, but encouraging them to sort of talk to people and raise it. And as part of this campaign, we're encouraging people the general public who hear about this to talk to people. So if, you know, if they're in a car with somebody and they just say, oh, I'm just going to pull in here on the whatever and say, well, actually, you know, that's not a good idea because you're going to block the path for somebody, apart from the fact that it's illegal to park on the footpath. But, you know, just raising awareness as to why that's a challenge for somebody else, I think, is what we're really asking people to do on this occasion.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I think, Madeline, people haven't a concept of the width because sometimes people park and certainly a person could walk by. But I need double that width because my dog isn't in front of me. You know, he's beside me. So it's quite a width I need. And Bruno has to make that judgment. Am I going to fit? And you have to take into account maybe a wing mirror, like the bulk of the car you might fit by, but then the mirror can clock you on the arm or shoulder or whatever as you go by. So he has to make that judgment. And it is quite a width we need. And Roisin often would have a companion with her. So it's a double width. It's not just one person. You need the width for two people to walk safely through. And, you know, I think maybe that bit might be very hard for people to realise as well. And often people, you know, I say, oh, is there a car parked there? And they say, oh, yeah, plenty of room, you'll fit through, you'll fit through. But when I'm actually going through, I'm hitting off it because it isn't wide enough. It's wide enough for them to maybe walk sideways by. But me and my dog is quite different from what they judge to be a safe enough distance. So I think
SPEAKER_01:it's hard to get across that concept. I think so. And the fact that, you know, often if they're parked up against them, there might be a hedge as well or a pole or, as you say, their wing mirror. It's all those other sort of aspects as well that kind of come into play, too. So even if there was room for someone to sort of squeeze through, it's just adding to the complexity and the space that you need, isn't it, as well? I think. No, 100%. So that's fantastic. Well, we've had lots of interesting conversations there and hopefully kind of helping to raise awareness of the challenges that temporary obstacles force. And that's the point. They're temporary obstacles that could be moved. And we just need people to be more aware, you know, to not leave things where they shouldn't be and be aware of the impact that they can have on people in terms of their confidence to get around, in terms of injuries that they may be having. You know, so just really, really important. Well, thank you. ladies both so much for sharing your stories and the different perspectives and I think it highlights the fact that it doesn't matter where you are in the country whether you're in Mayo or in South Dublin or you know for myself in Kildare you know it's the same problem everywhere and we do just need everybody to be aware and to make a change you know make an improvement for other people so Thank you so much for listening today. If you need any support from Vision Ireland, you can always log on to our website, which is www.vi.ie. Or you can call our info line on 1-800-911-250. That's 1-800-911-250. And remember, please clear our paths. We need it. Thank you so much, everyone. And we'll talk to you next time.
SPEAKER_00:Thanks for listening and see you next time.