Advocacy Talks with Vision Ireland
Welcome to Advocacy Talks from Vision Ireland. Hosted by Madeleine McNamara, Advocacy Talks aims to bring you conversations with interesting people about blindness, advocacy, and everything in between.
Contact the advocacy team at Vision Ireland by emailing campaigns@VI.ie .
Advocacy Talks with Vision Ireland
Advocacy Talks Episode 11 - VIP Band
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Are you an experienced musician who is blind or vision impaired? Have you always wanted to be in a band? Well, if so, here is your opportunity. Tony Mc Donald plays electric bass in a gigging band and has been involved in many bands over the years where he is the only person with a vision impairment. He is now trying to form a band made up entirely of musicians who are blind or vision impaired.
Welcome to Advocacy Talk. The Advocacy Team Advocate Artist. What's coming up on this episode?
SPEAKER_00I would have played many, many gigs, but all of the band would have consisted of me and fully soided people, if you like. I I know the new I know the music community is just a wonderful closing community. And I feel nothing but the height of respect for my ability. We have always made a clear that my choice problem is not involved in the music.
SPEAKER_04And now here's Madeline.
SPEAKER_03Hello everybody and welcome to Advocacy Talks. And thank you so much for listening today. You may remember that in our last episode we were talking about audio description, and I was joined by Dr. Lucia Pintado, who had just published a report all about audio description and how to try to increase the availability of that. So if you did uh miss it, please do listen back. It was really interesting, and we're hoping to really improve services in that area for people. Well, today we're talking about another sort of form of entertainment. And uh as it's coming up to Christmas, and I know your focus is probably on that right now, but then you're going to need to think about your uh your um New Year's resolution soon. So you might like to think about maybe uh joining a band. Um so today I'm joined by Tony McDonald, who is a vision impaired musician, and he's really keen to set up a band which would be made up of people who are blind or vision impaired. So, Tony, welcome to Advocacy Talks.
SPEAKER_00Hiya, Madeline. Thank you. It's nice to be here.
SPEAKER_03Oh, you're very welcome. Well, we're very interested to find out all about this band uh and what that's all about. But first of all, maybe you might just introduce yourself to us and tell us a little bit about yourself.
SPEAKER_00Okay, well, I'm uh Tony MacDonald is obviously my name. I'm vision impaired. I suffer from RP, which is the macular degeneration. I've suffered from it since I was uh in my mid-teens and I'm now in my mid-sixties. Uh my central vision is completely gone and I have some peripheral vision. Uh I'm a musician, as you said. Uh I've been playing music an awful long time, a lot of years. And um I've decided that uh I it would be a fantastic thing because I know the community of vision impaired and blind people out there. There are an awful lot of musicians who play at a very high standard. Uh and this project would be concerned with people who are blind and vision impaired running the show from start to finish. Uh so we would be a group of musicians and vocalists who are blind and vision impaired who would come together, design an act, create a band and make it as feasible as in getting out there and playing live. Now, what level of live, whether it's paid or it's charity work, but the whole idea of actually getting from step one meeting each other and then becoming a live band of blind and vision impaired people who have done it all ourselves. Obviously, it's it it's we are going to need the help of fully cited people for various reasons which we'll probably go into further down this conversation. But the the the nucleus of the work will be done by blind and vision impaired people and we would make the decisions and we would decide all aspects. What band members what the band consists of, what the music consists of, how we go about our stuff. Uh but there are obviously the obstacles which are will become obvious in our conversation.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, no, absolutely. But no, it's a really interesting uh proposal and and uh opportunity for people to get involved. Because as you say, there would be a lot of people within the community, uh, you know, people who are planning vision party who would be very musical. Um and I know you say you've been playing for a long time and you're actually involved, you perform with groups or have you over your you know, over your long your sort of span of of of playing, what has been your kind of uh experience, I suppose, of performing and being involved in in music?
SPEAKER_00Well I I I I have played I've bit I played in a half dozen different bands and and uh anyone who's involved in music at the level I'd be involved in, which is not fully professional, but I would have played many, many gigs. Um but all of the bands would have consisted of of me and fully sided people, if you like.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_00But I I would say at this point, I have found I I know the mu I know the music community, it's it's a wonderful close-knit community. Um and I found nothing but the height at the height of respect for my abilities, and I uh and we have always made it clear that my sight problem is is is is not involved in the music. So I I go into a band and they uh I would know most of them pre the band anyway, you know, because the community gets to know each other. Yeah and I would tell them on day one don't use my sight problem in the band. I will need help for transport and and and certain other things. But if I'm not up to scratch, if I'm not, you know, at the level I need to be here, don't use my sight. Because be being impaired or blind really is no obstacle to playing music. Well I when I say when I say that I mean if if you're prepared to put the walk in. Uh I I heard a great statement many, many years ago from a blind person and they said um when we learn to accept being blind or visually impaired that everything will take longer than everything is possible.
SPEAKER_03That's a great statement, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well when you when you when you find the acceptance of your visual impairment and you learn a semblance of patience, which I I have none. No I have none. But when you learn that this this is going to take longer and I need to humble myself to some extent because I need help and I need to ask for the help. And when I do that, doors open. Yeah I I mean and and I've travelled a lot of the country and and a a lot of certainly extensively in Dublin, Wicklow, places like that, playing music with bands. And everybody I've never had to go outside of my door is open and someone's waiting for me to pick up my gear and take me and bring me home and all of the rest. I everything after that I do myself, I set my own gear up. I'm involved in the workings of the bands. You know, I'm I'm part of it. But when I you know when I say I need help, I can't, I don't have transport, I need to get from A to B. It's there.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. It's there.
SPEAKER_00That's fantastic. So that that is if without jumping too far on you, maybe down the road, is the is the first is is not the first, but one of the first problems that a band like this would encounter. But that that would that would be in the discussion.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Early discussion of obviously we're blind and visually impaired, so we're going to need transport when when when we get moving.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And uh, you know, so we're going to have to organize that.
SPEAKER_03So that is something that that can be discussed once you get interested people involved, that that that is an issue that can be discussed together as a group and work out how people are going to manage that, I guess.
SPEAKER_00Well, the first thing to do is hopefully that this podcast and and and other public you know notices of this discussion would is to find a group of people who are blind and visually impaired and who are like-minded and who are prepared. And like these these musicians that we're hoping to reach will know what I'm talking about when when I talk about the work that goes in before you get off the ground at all. So they they will know, yeah, I want to play music, I'd like to give that a go, but they will be very aware that I don't have transports.
SPEAKER_03No, you so you're really looking for people, I guess, who are experienced musicians. You know, we're not looking in this instance for people who are just sort of taking up an instrument.
SPEAKER_00We're we're really looking for people who are you know are good at their at their playing and know know how to play their instrument and you know, people who have yeah, people who have gigged are people who would like to gig and and and have uh a lot of work done on on their craft, if you like. Because to be honest with you, I what I what I would love to see, and it's it may be a poet dream, but for me it's not, uh like I say, you know, everything is possible is to create a band that would say do um it would probably be a covers band, a five or six piece, could be seven piece, I don't know. I don't know what instruments, I don't know what people are interested. Uh but to do to do functions, to do um conferences, to do bigger gigs, and they may just you know in the beginning they maybe just be charity gigs because every band's got to find its feet and and get out there. But the first job would be a group of people saying, Yes, this could work, yeah, and then deciding, well, what sound do we need, what instruments do we need, and obviously singers are are vital in this. So if a singer comes along who has experience singing in a particular genre, uh there needs to be some kind of compromise. But we can't say to a singer, right, we we want to do funk and soul, and if this singer is doing rock and roll all the time. You know, so there has to be some kind so all that's to be talked about and worked out before an instrument is even introduced.
SPEAKER_03Right. So you're not set on what on the style of music as such, you know, you're kind of open.
SPEAKER_00Depending on who comes back, it depending on who comes back with an interest, yeah. We find we find a a common place to sit down over a uh a a big pot of coffee or whatever. That sounds good. Okay, this is this is who we are, this is who I am, who are you, what do you do, what's your experience, what's your interest in this, you know, how how hard are you prepared to work? And I think anyone who even takes up the offer will be prepared to work because they know what it entails.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And then you say, Okay, well, we can do this. This is the kind of music we can do, this is the kind of music, these are the instruments we will need.
SPEAKER_03So you play you play electric bass, is that right?
SPEAKER_00I play electric bass and blues harmonica for me sins.
SPEAKER_03Oh, there you go.
SPEAKER_00I start I I started playing blues harmonica in a band many, many, many years ago. And I I being the ego maniac I am, I decided I wasn't getting enough of the limelight. So I said to the guy running the show, I said, Have you got more work for me? He said, Take up an extra instrument. And I I just happened to pick up a bass and discovered that um I actually I'm one of these bass players, some bands love them who doesn't play guitar because a lot of bass players are failed guitarists basically. But I I don't know how to play guitar, so I'm I'm not going to try to take anyone's spot. But I love the bass and I I studied it and got into it for years and and obviously played lots of gigs. And now that would be my main instrument, but but I still use the blues harmonica in certain situations.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I saw a video you shared with with us there. You were playing in a in a in a band there in the C like a Poba, I think, with the the the cliff that we showed. And you're certainly amazing. I was like, wow, fantastic, really, really good. Really enjoyed it. Yeah, no, uh brilliant. And and how did how did you how did you learn it, the bass? Did you you know did you go?
SPEAKER_00Again, because I'm blind, uh because I'm visually impaired, but obviously, uh, it would be very difficult for me to go to a regular teacher uh because everything he'd say to me I'd have to take in anyway. So I I bought the books. Now when I'm going back when you bought a book before YouTube. Yeah, oh way, way, way long many years back in the 90s, and um I I got a book and I learned it and I struggled with it, and I nearly threw it through the window on more than one occasion, but I stuck at it and I discovered that once I got into it and studied it, I I found a way to teach myself through the study books.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And the people I was studying from in the books I I I discovered were sixties and seventies rock and and blues and soul legends. Uh and uh so I really got I got really great into uh great tuition through the books.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And and uh I had to find a way to see what was written on the books, and I have a I have a CCT monitor here, which the NCBI at the time donated to me. And I've since upgraded that, but I I had to learn to put the book under it and see it. And the struggles, anyone who's blind and visually impaired, will know the struggle that your instrument causes because you have to twist and turn and find a way to see what you need to learn and and hold the instrument. Where people who are fully sighted can just look in front of them and see it. Where we have to this is what I'm saying about that that John the the the the uh the counsellor many many years ago in the in NCBI said, you know, when you when you find the acceptance that things take longer, that's when you learn your instrument, you know, it's it doesn't become a burden.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00And I just went on, I got I I knew a lot of band, I knew a lot of guys who are musicians. I offered myself, I I I formed some bands, I mean, and I and I got out there and and uh it's a soul food, music is a soul food. It's a language all onto itself, and anyone who's not a musician may have, but singers will know too. Vocalists will know what I'm talking about. Once you get it, it's it's a great drug. Once you stand in front of a live audience, you want more. Doesn't matter what level you're at, you want more.
SPEAKER_03Oh no, it is it is wonderful. I I wouldn't be in uh anything like you say, I I'm in a just in a local choir and I love it because it's that it's a community it's that being together in a community as well, but it's yeah, it's singing and and music is is just so wonderful. It it really does um you know bring a lot for people, I think.
SPEAKER_00Um you've got to make yourself vulnerable to stand and play live or to sing live, it doesn't matter what the audience is, but to stand up uh and and with a group or small number, two, ten, twenty, whatever people, and be vulnerable enough to say, I'm going to express myself completely with you, for you, that's a vulnerability, and and that's what the soul food is. I think that's the the joy of it. Isn't it an amazing art that a singer or a musician can go to the other side of the world, not speak the language, just sit down with his or whore instrument or sing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And immediately the communication is made, and we don't and then we just stand up and walk away. But we've we've been together for those moments and we've we've we've created something which I think is it's almost spiritual if if it isn't, you know.
SPEAKER_03Oh no, it it's amazing how music just can so move people, you know, whether it's you know giving joy, you know, as to some music, whether it's kind of emotion. Some some music can can almost make me feel like crying because it's so you know uh you know, and it it's amazing the power of music in that sense. And as you say, it's it kind of costs any language, uh you can kind of share that, which is wonderful.
SPEAKER_00Um take it 50 years back. I mean, you you you can hear the song and and immediately you're transported 50 years back, and you actually feel well for me and sure with you and lots of people, you actually feel the emotion you felt when you heard the song when it meant something fifty years ago, 40 years ago, 40 years ago, whatever.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00You actually feel that emotion inside of you. That's the power.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, no, definitely. Definitely. No, it's amazing. So just going back now to the sort of practicalities of this sort of proposition that you're you're putting out heck here, um I guess you know you're you're based in the on the east coast, so um we're probably kind of in the real in reality, kind of I guess thinking of of people who would be on the east coast. It doesn't have to be. I know you're down in um Shank Hill, but I mean anyone around that area, where where would you envisage maybe meeting up?
SPEAKER_00I guess about this. I was thinking about this, Madeline, when you when when you spoke to me last week about this uh podcast, and I thought, yes, because of the the the difficulties of transport and and a group or a band of people getting together who are blind and visually impaired, like there would have to be an area. But if people hear this from other parts of the country, why don't they find their group or band in in their area?
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So so it's not just one band. Do you know what I mean? I I was thinking about this because it it we like we uh let's say the metropolitan area of Dublin would probably encompass the people because obviously we we with the transport problem you're not you can't ask someone to come from Atlone or or Cork or Galway. So um why you know, people hear this and think it's a good idea go and try it in your own area, that's what I'm suggesting. But what I'm suggesting is anyone who hears your podcast let's let's create a community of blind and vision impaired people all over the country for that reason that if we travel through the country we could meet these people down the road, not to be in a band, but just to be them in the music settings, yeah, you know, so and and and let let Uber people find their their specific areas of the country and and their bands, you know, let their bands grow there. But anyone who hears this is welcome to call me. Uh I don't I I I we did discuss it, I I'm not great on social media and stuff like that. Uh uh let them call me, contact me, and let's chat and see where we can take it. Uh and uh when when we have enough interest from where I am meet somewhere and sit down and discuss where do we go. That would step one would be meeting. Step two is how do we take it forward.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And and just to give us a broad kind of sense that, you know, I know we're open to sort of different genres of of uh performing things, but what what kind of kind of music instruments and things would you be looking for gen generally for to form a band?
SPEAKER_00Well well, in my mind, what I would love, this is just my own pet project in my mind. Uh I would love a soul funk blues rock style band, a band that can get out and and play uh in events. functions and out now and don't anyone listen saying you haven't chance i it's it's it's a it's a market out there now which is soaked because of so many venues closed and so it's really it's difficult but if you don't take the first step you'll never know.
SPEAKER_03And you have experience so I mean it's not as if it's not as if you are starting from the ground up in some ways because you've been involved in so many bands.
SPEAKER_00The people I'm I'm hoping that will contact me will have bags of experience too. And it's this this this business and it is the music business by the way it's dog eat dog but uh it's all about contacts.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So you go you go somewhere you don't know who you're going to meet you get a number you know you share each other's numbers and and you you might need that person or they might need you. So it's all about contacts.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But I I envisage a band that can play gigs big or small live gigs it's it's like we spoke this the soul food of getting out there in front of an audience.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So you'd be looking at musical instruments such as what drum drums drum well I'll play bass please God drum bass guitars keyboards brass and very very importantly the front the singer the vocals back and vocals. Like this band could consist of three people if it ever gets moving it could consist of ten people dependent on it. Now bigger numbers mean you need bigger outlook but why not why why not have fun getting it to someplace I've always found over the years the fun is getting the work done behind the scenes so that if someone gives you a call and says could you do a gig you can say yeah we're ready.
SPEAKER_03And and how much kind of preparation would go into that because you know I know you're saying the people would be interested would kind of know but just for those who might not I don't I don't know I you know what um which is involved yeah if if everything else fell into place if everything fell into place like the the groundwork fell into place with good experienced musicians within three months you could be up and ready to go.
SPEAKER_00But then again you see as soon as you become over and ready and you say yeah we can go where do we go and how do we get there? Yes that's the thing that's the thing and would you the first thing would be to do to to get to a state where we could we could um and it's really easy with phones these days get a five minute promo that we can send out to agents and people because it's all done that way now the publicans don't do it. You used to go and and into the pub and say can you give us a gig and they'd get to know you and you they they give you a bit of work but now they don't deal it's all done through agents and and that sort of business again. So you need to get a little video to them. Right and then they they contact you and say can you do a gig in such and such a space such a place and that's where their problem would lie then in in that world oven ready as I say we can go and do the gig but how do we get there?
SPEAKER_03So we have to have that preparation done yeah yeah so that would be the transport aspect of it isn't it can try if you're a vocalist have it easier because they just bring themselves oh Madeline you're going to get yourself into trouble there don't say that they were very high opinion of themselves but they are I mean they're they're what you look at the vocalist is is is what you focus on like and after a while you start listening to the band but if you if you can get a really good front person they make the sound they do the business for you what I mean is they don't have to bring any equipment with them you know what I mean the vocals are at the built in this band you'll be hauling plenty of mic slams and drums and everything you that's what I'm saying.
SPEAKER_02Ah I see they better bring the mic and all that yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah they want to they want to help out with the rest of us I think that's a very good point actually yes you should they need to pitch in and and and do the the those parts as well yeah yeah yeah they they they'll know that they'll know that we they are so important you can have a really good band but if the front is not right it's not going to work you so you need a good front you know who can carry the who can carry the show and create the sound that you've worked on.
SPEAKER_03Yeah well it's a fantastic uh idea and I really do hope that you can get it off the ground and that people do you know do think you know yeah new New Year's coming up and New Year's resolution you you know you've you you're playing away uh there at home or whatever and you know this could be the fantastic opportunity to kind of really get your teeth into something and and and give it a go you know so would you like to share your phone number here Tony so that people could give you a call before I do Madeline I will say that age and gender are no barrier most certainly if you have what it takes you'll know.
SPEAKER_00So I mean that's the beauty again about music deep I'm 65 you've got to someone who's 2025 and they might yell and yell it doesn't matter it doesn't make any difference age or gender is no barrier.
SPEAKER_03I'll give you my number and people who are interested and would like to give me a call uh and make it some kind of a beginning you can catch me on oh eight five seven seven three two nine four eight and it's Tony Macdonald that's lovely Tony well thank you so much and I that we will be putting um information in our in our newsletter which is going out uh as well around this time so um people can also find it there if they're signed up for that and if you're not signed up for our newsletter why aren't you signed up for our newsletter? Get in touch with me and um I I can sign you up. So fantastic thank you so much for coming and talking to me today and it it it's brilliant and I I really do hope it gets off the ground.
SPEAKER_04So just as always if if anyone you know does need any support from Vision Island you can always uh get in touch with us you can look at our website at www.vi.ie or you can call our info line on 1-800-911250 well I hope you all have a fantastic Christmas and uh we'll be back in the new year with with uh something from vision sports so uh keep uh an ear out for that and uh lovely to have you all today talk to you soon bye bye thanks for listening to advocacy talk to get in touch with our advocacy team send us an email to campaigns at vi.ie or why not join one of our local advocacy networks where you can work together with others to solve some of the biggest problems facing blind and partially cited people in Ireland. Thanks for listening and see you next time