Talking Technology with V I Labs
This podcast is focused on technology that supports people who are blind and visually impaired. Our panel of IT Trainers & guest panelists discuss all the latest in mainstream and inclusive technology innovations in a fun and informative manner. V I Labs is the technology function within Vision Ireland. Vision Ireland is the national sight loss agency in Ireland. V I Labs provide technology assessments and training for all our service users. We are a not for profit charity, which offers support and services to people of all ages who are experiencing difficulties with their eyesight. Visit www.vi.ie to discover more about our technology services and other range of services Vision Ireland provide
Talking Technology with V I Labs
Talking Technology with V I Labs Episode 94 - pregnancy tests for blind people
For someone who is blind or visually impaired, how do you get the result of a pregnancy test? Often, a blind or visually impaired person isn’t the first to know about their own test result. This is because traditionally, pregnancy tests, as well as many other health-related checks, have been inaccessible.
On this episode, we speak with Leah Shanahan about AMY, a pregnancy test that she has designed for those who are blind or visually impaired. We also catch up with Adela Buliman from Vially on the topic.
We have voice notes on Glide as well as a unique use case for meta glasses, and in tech news, we’ve got info on Zippay, gaming, and this evening’s Apple event.
Join the conversation with a WhatsApp voice note. The number you need is +353 86 199 00 11.
0:00 – Intro
3:03 – Responding to your WhatsApp voice notes
24:55 – Adela discusses accessible pregnancy tests
41:19 – Leah tells us about the accessible test she designed
52:39 – Talking Technology news
1:07:00 – Outro
This Vision Ireland podcast contains chapter markers. If you want to skip the intro or a topic you don't like, you can use chapter markers to do so. Chapter markers are only supported in some podcast apps. Enjoy the show. Welcome to Talking Technology with VI Labs. At VI Labs, we believe technology is the single greatest enabler for people with sight loss and all disabilities. If you're looking for the latest news and conversation on tech from a more accessible perspective, you've come to the right place. Yes indeed you have. Hello everybody and welcome in to Talking Technology with VI Labs episode number 94. And it's an Apple event day, yes, as we record this. It's the 9th of September here in Ireland and Apple are in the next couple of hours, at least we theorize, going to announce some new devices, probably the iPhone 17 updates to the Apple Watch as well. But I must confess, I'm totally out of the rumour mill this time. I haven't been keeping up with all of the rumours. I'm personally, I must say, waiting on a new upgrade for the Apple Watch Ultra. My old Series 5 here, I'm wearing it as we speak. But things like its battery is a bit aged at this stage and it's struggling, I think it's fair to say. But we'll see, hopefully there will be something new to try out later on this evening. And we'll have more coverage on that later on this week, so you're going to want to be subscribed for that. We'll tell you more about that in a bit as well. But on today's show though, on episode 94, we have a really interesting topic. You may have seen in the news or heard on the radio about a new design for accessible pregnancy tests for people who are blind or visually impaired. We'll be catching up with Leah Shanahan in a bit to tell us all about the new design. She has just completed a design course in UL and for her final year project designed an accessible pregnancy test. We'll be talking about that in a bit and we'll also be catching up with Adela Bulliman, who is the Chief Accessibility Officer at Byali, to tell us more about her perspective as well on accessible pregnancy tests and access to health in general. We'll be chatting about that in just a bit. But a reminder before we do that, we always want to hear your opinions here on Talkin' Technology because we really do want to know what you think, whether you have good bad news that you want to share with technology that you've tried. Maybe you like something, maybe you don't, or maybe you've just heard something in the news that we should be covering. We'd love to hear from you. And as always, there are loads of ways that you can get in touch. So if you would like to join the conversation, you can do so with a WhatsApp voice note, if you would like. You want to do that in WhatsApp, there's a button right down there at the bottom. That right hand corner of the chat interface, it's a microphone, if you have some vision. Or if you're using voiceover, it's labeled with the voice message button. Remember a voice note is not a call, so you just want to find that specific button there down at the bottom right. The number you need if you want to contact us, it's 086-199-0011. That's 086-199-0011. Or if you would like, you can send us an email too. That is content at vi.ie, content at vi.ie, if you would like to send us an email and get in touch that way, the good old fashioned way. So whether you'd like to get in touch with us on WhatsApp or by sending us an email, we'd love to hear from you with your views, your thoughts, anything at all. Do send it to us on WhatsApp 086-199-0011 or content at vi.ie on the emails. But now to go through your emails from the week gone by, joined from Kilkenny by Mr. Joe Lonaghan. Joe, how are you? Hi there, I'm good. Excellent stuff, Joe. Are you looking forward to the Apple event? I am actually as usual. I know they all come, they all come around this time of the year. And I especially look forward to when I'm getting a new phone, but I'm not sure this time around. I if look, if nothing else, maybe the 16 might become a little bit cheaper and that might tempt me in. So, yeah, but I am looking for hearing any new accessible features, especially. So we'll see what happens. Yeah, no waiting on the watch this time for me. But we'll see. We'll have more on that later in the week. Be subscribed to Vi Labs and Talking Technology on all the podcast apps and on YouTube, because we'll have coverage in podcast form, in video form and in the Tech on Tap newsletter. So do subscribe everywhere to stay involved and stay up to date with the new iPhones and watches. And whoever knows what else they might announce, new AirPods, maybe, all speculation. At this point, we know nothing. But maybe by the time you're listening to this, you know stuff we don't. We'll have to wait and see. But voice notes then. We have a few voice notes in this week, Joe, and we're starting off with Derry. Derry has some views on the podcast we did with Glydon CEO Amos Miller. Of course, they announced that they're not coming to Europe for the foreseeable future. And Derry is not a happy camper about that. Here's what he had to say. Hi, David. Hi, Joe. Hope you're all keeping well. It's Derry here. Well, I'm gobsmacked about Glydon's not coming to Europe. I'm not surprised, a little bit surprised. I wonder, was the four million he got anything to do with it? Not if it's only given to the US, Canada and UK. David did a great interview with Amos. I don't think he answered half your questions. He certainly spoke around the question, but he didn't actually answer any of your questions. I mean, if you were, if I was clever enough and I went, bought my Glydon's in London, sent it to my brother's address and brought to Ireland. You asked him what the work in Ireland, he didn't give you the yes or no answer. So, yeah, I'm kind of kind of gobsmacked why Glydon's isn't coming. I mean, he knew this three months ago. Why, why did he come to the Wayfinding Center back in like little, you know, just over two, two and a half months ago? If he kind of knew back then he wasn't going to be going to Europe. Yeah, again, we're stuck out in the cold. We'll have to wait. I don't think the device is ready for next year. I'd be surprised if UK see it in 2026, but let's see. Yeah, kind of annoyed with that, David. Take it easy. Harsh words there from Derry Joe, but he has a point in fairness. Oh, Derry, I agree 100 percent with your sentiments on the subject. Look, I feel the same as well. I don't even see it coming out in 2026. But look, who knows? We'll just wait and watch this space. All we can do now is watch YouTube videos on the subject because we won't be getting the Glydon's or Glyde over here or whatever they're going to finally call it. But yeah, that was disappointing that they came all the way to the Wayfinding Center. And we even had a person from Lithuania fly over to look at it and do YouTube videos on and that great hype. And it actually worked better than it did the previous prototype. And I was all hopeful for it as well. And looking forward to covering all the content for it and stuff like that. But look, it's not coming out. We'll have to focus on other things. And yeah, he didn't answer all the questions like anybody in a company like that. They're going to work around the subject because it's awkward. And look, we just have to hope down the line that maybe things go really well in the US. And maybe 2030 or something, we might have access to it. I don't really know what else to say about David, apart from I'm disappointed like Derry. Yeah, you know, and Derry raises an interesting point as to it was when we recorded that interview. So we recorded that interview on the Monday of that week. He came out, I think, on a Friday, if I recall, and we recorded on that Monday. And yeah, like they knew, you know, or at least he says they started to make those decisions kind of three months before we did that podcast. And that was, you know, so then that would, to Derry's point, indicate that they knew something of this, at least. Or at least that it was being considered by the time they came to the Wayfinding Center. So look, really interesting, really weird one. I'm hopeful for the future, but it is definitely a disappointing one. So time will tell on that. But thank you so much, though, for sharing your views, Derry. I think it sums up the views of a lot of different people. We've had people email us and straight up say that they're disappointed. And I do get that, you know, there's a lot of potential for a device like this. But Glide have this is their second delay now, Joe. Yeah, this is our second delay. And look, I don't like when companies say this is coming and it's got the potential to do this and all the rest of it. I think sometimes they can make predictions a little bit too early, especially when people's safety is at the cost of a device. So like this device has to guide you safely down the road and around an obstacle and down the step and, you know, make sure there's nothing coming and all the rest of it. Well, I know you're in charge of some of that yourself as well. But when a device has safety concerns, I think so no point in speaking too far ahead. But then you have to look at it from the company's perspective. They have to look for backers as well. And they have a financial responsibility to keep the company going or else the device will never ever get to market anywhere. So look, I suppose there is a couple of ways of looking around the box. But I look I'm just disappointed like Derry. Yeah, for sure. It's going to be an interesting one to wait and see. But time will tell on that and hopefully they will join us on talking technology again in the future. When and if Glide does eventually make its way to Ireland and Europe, time will tell on that. Let's move on then to another voice note that we had in the continuing saga from Raheem and Tina. They have they have had we have had voice notes from them on a few of our recent podcasts discussing the goings on with their smart washing machine. And in our last episode, they finally got it set up. But Joe, you were still harsh in saying that they or that Raheem, at least, you know, wouldn't necessarily be as proficient. I defended Raheem, but we recapped all that on the last episode. But Joe, I don't think Raheem is a happy camper with you. Yeah, I'm not sure how to take that that little segment last week. God, Joe, I didn't realize you doubted me so much when it came to my domestic skills. But look, I will confess, Tina, Tina did set up the machine, as she did say, the dryer and the washing machine. She also set up the sand, some TV with a lot of challenges got there in the end. But in saying that, I decided myself to have a look at the washing machine. So I actually discovered that there's a little bit of brain on the washing machine. I'm not sure if you guys are aware of this. I was like feeling around because there's no real buttons on it. You can hear it there. I just tapped it now and. The kind of left hand side of the machine, there is a P in Braille, as with a Braille on this machine is a P, which is for power. So I pressed it. So if you press the button, if you if you put your finger up just above the P there, I've turned it off now. And then if you slide your finger over to the right, this is just above the door. There's an S for a start. So to start a program. So I figured that out. And then I started using the app and yeah, Joe, you'd be glad to put on a wash. But a few years ago, I had a different house and I had a manual machine, actually, no smart features at all. And I could use this quite well. So, Joe, you'll be happy to know. Yeah, I've been using washing machines for years. And let's pause that voice out there just for a second, because Raheem covered a lot of points, but worth addressing the washing machine. First of all, Joe, really cool that it has Braille on the washing machine. That isn't the case on your one, I believe. No, Raheem's machine is obviously a newer model than my one. My one does not have Braille on it. Mine is a good machine and all the rest of it and works with smart things. But it's seven years old now. So that'll tell you how long I've had the machine. And look, I'll admit, I rarely use the washing machine. It's left to the lady in the house. So Raheem has one up on me there now. Look, look, look, I take it all back. That terrible slur I put on Raheem's character that he'd never use the washing machine. Absolutely. Hopefully, he took it in a good, good jest there. But yeah, look, no doubt about it, Raheem is a trendy man and he washes his own clothes. But a better washing machine than you with that Joe. And he has a better washing machine. Look, what can I say? But he did admit he did set it up. So, look, we'll take one mark off. We'll take one mark off from there. Look, anyway, look, yeah, Braille on the washing machine, brilliant. If you can read Braille and understand P from the S. And after a while, I suppose, you'll just get the hang of where the buttons is. It's like putting even bump ons on buttons on something. Anything that distinguishes one button from the other and has a bit of Braille on it, that's a big up for Samsung. If it is a Samsung machine, as far as I remember, it's a Samsung machine that Raheem has. So I give Samsung a brownie point for that, even thinking about putting little bumps on our Braille symbols on some of the buttons. I think that's a great addition. Absolutely. And I think you're trying to get brownie points now by apologizing to Raheem. But I don't think it's good enough, Lannigan. I don't think it's good enough. Oh, my God. Look, there we go. Anyway, thank you so much to Raheem for that. Raheem had a number of other points as well, though. Let's resume Raheem's voice note now. And he had a thought on the meta glasses. This is in response to another voice note we had in from Keon. So just onto Keon's message last week, Keon was wondering about the meta AI glasses. I actually bought a pair of these in early July and Keon, I found the setup to be seamless step by step. It walks you through it. It explains even the pairing button where that is on the glasses. There's a little pairing button you press when you're when you're about to pair them up. Absolutely love the glasses. I've been using them in particular. My guide dog was very unwell over the last few months and she's retired. Now, I am. It was quite sad. But equally, I got some eye surgery two months after she retired. And I got a slight improvement in my vision and not enough to see screens and to see to make that vision any better, but enough to actually be able to get around without a guide dog. But what I was doing over the last two months, because my guide dog wasn't well and I had to, I wanted to show videos to my vet and to Paris. Paris is my guide dog's name. I want to show videos to her physio. I was recording videos in the park of Paris walking, so her physio and her vet could see how she was walking. And again, I would just say, hey, meta, record video. I would hold down my finger on one of the arms and it did that. And it was very good. Excellent. And again, I just use them for listening to podcasts when I'm walking in the house. I don't use them. I just use a headset. But when I'm out and about, I use them because you can hear everything around you. I'm so keen. Yeah, I would I wouldn't say I'd recommend them to you because there's plenty there. I mean, we've got the alloy sol solars coming soon. And they're the new they're the new, I think, envisioned losses. Again, as David rightly pointed out last week, if you're going to wait around for your versions of technologies to come out. Yeah, you know, you're probably better off going for them because who knows? Maybe the the alloy, it's going to come out in October, but maybe it might not come because we've also seen this with the the echo visioned losses have been delayed now. So it's always a risk by waiting. Look, best of luck, guys. And. Loving the show, as always. And. David, thank you for supporting me and for believing in me. Joe, I think you may have to have a chat. And about this, about your lack of faith in my abilities. But yeah, guys, have a great week and looking forward to the show. Thanks so much, Raheem, really appreciate it. And yet, you know, I must say, Joe. What a great use for meta glasses. And I understand it's a very difficult and sensitive topic, but it's such an important thing that you need to do. And they see like meta glasses are perfect for that in many ways, aren't they? Oh, yeah, Jeannie Mack, that's a great use for meta glasses, because you know how difficult it is for someone with vision impairment to try and hold a camera and get it on the actual subject you're trying to record, whether it's a dog and maybe the gait of the walk of the dog or whatever you're trying to catch in that camera or that moment. At least it's a lot easier to kind of if you have a tiny bit of vision, maybe keep your eyes on the dog and record while the dog is walking or whatever movable subject you are trying to record, whether that be maybe a kids football match or anything really, a bit of nature or something. But that's a great use for it. And look at the positivity of a physiotherapist for animals can, I suppose, assess the dog before the dog sees the physio. And I can look, I'd say there's loads of use cases that you could think of this, maybe even experiences, hikes or cycles and all sorts of sports activities as well that you could record on the meta glasses because your hands are free. Yeah. And I think like, look, it's one of these things where there is always going to be advantages to recording video. And I think, you know, that there are huge benefits to that no matter what you're doing, aren't there? Oh, yeah, I think, look, the whole hands free part of it is the benefit and the easiness of starting off the video as well, like, you know, sometimes you're on the phone and you're in a kind of an environment that not difficult, it's not easy to hear a voice over and stuff. And you're trying to get to the phone into video mode or maybe you're trying to do with Siri and Siri can't hear you. The meta glasses seem to be able to hear you a little bit better. I find a lot. So I'm going to use them a short time myself now. And I haven't recorded many videos, but just to maybe make a request, I find it nearly always hears you well, you know what I mean? So that's the other advantage of it. It's kind of so intuitive, you know, it's so easy to learn. There's not not a lot of gestures and all that kind of stuff. You know, even even the use of the touch, touch sensitive area on the right hand arm of the glasses. I find that quite easy to use as well. So you just slide forward, turn up the volume, slide backward, turn down the volume and you tap on to play the last piece of media that you had on your iPhone, you know, or your smartphone, whichever phone you're using. And you can also connect to all the communications on your device or even tune in radio or you'll hear more in the news later on. And, you know, Apple Music and Spotify, all those things you can even listen to on your glasses, as Raheem mentioned there and his voice note. So look, very versatile that glasses are. I don't like 100% recommend for anybody because they don't suit everybody. Not everybody likes them. When you're out and about and all your ears are open. But I find when the voice of metal voice is speaking, it does drown out some of the outside noise as well. So don't rely on the open ear 100%. That's my advice to you, because your ears are open, but they're not 100% able to hear all the other noises. Just put how it is. Yeah, absolutely. I think, look, they're not perfect yet. They do have issues. But when the accuracy gets superb and when the, you know, design and battery life and all of these things starts to improve as time goes on, these are going to become really, really important. And we saw this on Friday. We had a Metaglasses event in a number of our offices across the country. And the attendance on that was crazy. We had over 80 people in the door just to check out these Metaglasses. And, you know, it's I'm sure everyone listening to this knows that 80 people who are blind or visually impaired, that's a lot of blind or visually impaired people. So these are a really exciting events and really exciting devices for people. And I think that's really, really promising, isn't it? Oh, really promising. And that was all in different offices all over the country. Limerick, Carkerley, Kilkenny and virtually as well. And we will be having another one coming up. We'll just say soon. It could be another month's time or something like that. But we will invite people to show their interest by emailing training at vi.ie for anyone that's interested in looking at or coming to a course on Metaglasses down the line. And we will put you on the spreadsheet and send you the link. And hopefully you'll enjoy it as much as everybody else did. But yeah, I just think they have great potential. And as you said, even the Oakley ones that came out there, they were an improvement, some people said, with battery life and better camera and all that kind of stuff. But there is a third gen coming soon as well. And I can't remember the exact date, but there's a meta event coming very soon and we will cover it in detail in our newsletter and in one of our podcasts coming up soon, David. Absolutely brilliant stuff. Well, guys, thank you so much to Derry and Raheem for sending in the voice notes this week. We really do appreciate it. And a reminder that if you would like to send a voice note in as well, we'd love to hear from you. The number you need there 086-199-0011, or you can always reach us by email. It's content at vi.ie if that's how you would like to reach us. content at vi.ie is how you can get in touch. Right then, let's move swiftly on to a topic that's really interesting and an area that I must confess that I don't know a whole lot about for obvious reasons, and that is pregnancy tests. And pregnancy tests have traditionally been quite inaccessible, as have a lot of other various health checks. And we'll catch up in a while with Leah Shanahan, who has created a more accessible solution for health checks like pregnancy tests, and we'll chat to her in a bit. But first, though, I caught up with Adela Bulliman, who is the Chief Accessibility Officer at Vialli to learn a little bit about this issue, why it's so important and what it means for accessibility more generally. So joining me now once again on Talking Technology, I am delighted to be joined by Adela Bulliman, who is the Chief Accessibility Officer at Vialli. Adela, how are things? I'm good. Thanks for having me, David. Thank you so much. How have things been at Vialli since we last spoke? Really good. I mean, we had some really, really busy couple of months. I'm sure people might have heard of the European Accessibility Act that would have came into force at the end of June, just passed there. So I think about the year leading up was kind of chaos for a lot of organizations. It kind of felt like every company in Ireland was trying to get an audit or get things done or so on. I think a lot of them didn't realize that accessibility is a pretty long journey if you're starting from scratch or from zero. It's not something that you can just go, oh, let me click two buttons and everything's accessible now. It's a whole process you have to consider in your designs, in your procurement, in actually building the stuff then. Maybe you have legacy software that needs some updating before you can add accessibility features and so on. So there was a really big push. But as expected, it wasn't a case that June 28th came and all of a sudden the world was fixed and everything was accessible. I think the majority of companies are very much on their journey and it might take a couple of years till they actually get all of those processes in place and fix all of the backlog of all the things that we would have found coming up to the EAA that they need to implement. Are you getting eight hours sleep again yet? I don't know if I've had eight hours sleep since I was about two years old. Fair enough. That's fair. Well, listen, let's move on then, because the topic for today is quite an interesting one, and that is access to pregnancy tests and I guess other medical tests generally. But I suppose, first of all, Adela, how important an issue is this and how big an issue is it? It is a pretty large issue and I don't even think it has to be necessarily boiled down to just pregnancy tests. I think it's a good metaphor for the lack of independence that you are afforded as a person with disabilities. And when we look at pregnancy tests, it's just this concept of you've done a test and you never ever get to be the first one to know if you are pregnant or not. You always have to ask somebody else to check it for you. And I think because it's such a big, momentous occasion for so many people, that's why it really hits home. The reality is that that's kind of what disabled people are used to in their everyday lives in general, like whether it's checking your bank transactions or wanting to buy something from Tesco. There's probably some way that your independence has been stripped away from you. But yeah, I think the pregnancy tests are quite easy to understand because it's a very highly emotionally charged situation as well. Especially if you consider, you know, someone who maybe is disappointed by the results on the pregnancy test and they now have to share that emotion. With potentially a stranger or maybe a friend or family member that they didn't want to tell yet or so on. So it's just, I guess, quite an upsetting case that the pregnancy tests aren't accessible. And it's about dignity as well, isn't it? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it really just comes back down to human rights. And, you know, regardless of your abilities or senses or disability, you should get the same opportunities, independence, privacy and respect as everybody else. For sure. Now, I suppose it is worth pointing out, and we'll talk to Leah in a little bit, but there have been efforts to make, I suppose, pregnancy tests and other kind of related tests accessible in the past. There's services like the Be My Eyes and Clearblue partnership. So I suppose what's out there right now? And where is it lacking? So there are a few things out there right now. You mentioned Be My Eyes partnership with Clearblue. I think it's a great initiative, but maybe not 100 percent there. So I haven't used it myself, but from what I know of it, it's essentially you use Be My Eyes and you specifically ask for a Clearblue consultant. So it still works the same way in that there is another person on the other end of the call, except you can be assured that it is completely anonymous and they're following GDPR on all of that because it's an official Clearblue representative. And so definitely a much nicer concept than maybe having to rely on a stranger on Be My Eyes. However, of course, again, you know, you still don't get the kind of, I guess, independence or opportunity to to do it completely privately. And there are there are some other pieces. So there was I think in the US, there is a pregnancy test that connects to an app on your phone. The thing with that one, I don't remember the exact company or brand, but they were quite expensive. So I think it was like 50 or 60 dollars for the test itself. And then it connected to an app on your phone. And what we found when we looked into it is, of course, the app is not accessible. And I think this is really, really common for a lot of kind of products that rely on the on a software being there as well. So even things like digital scales or if you have other kind of smart appliances, there will be some talk put into the kind of hardware of the piece in terms of, oh, if you have if you are blind, you might not be able to read the lines on a pregnancy test. So we'll connect it to the app and they'll kind of think that way. But they don't necessarily consider the entire lifecycle, which would include if there's any software that's necessary, like a mobile app or a website. Has that been made digitally accessible and compatible with assistive technology? What about the entire lifecycle? So are you using maybe a third party payment platform that is not accessible? Or even as far as like if there's how to guides or FAQs, are they in like an inaccessible PDF or can they be used with a screen reader? Or do you have to call someone for support? And what happens if you have hearing loss then? So I think that large picture piece is missing from a lot of these products. It is good that they exist. But I just would wish that companies and organizations consider the whole picture. And to me, it's a very clear sign that they're not incorporating people with disabilities, because if you do have users that are testing for you, consulting with you and actually giving their kind of expert disabled opinion, they would have pointed out these things to you already and you would be aware of them. So that's the kind of fallback in my eyes. So where are we heading in the future then? Like, is this something that is going to improve and what needs to change for it to improve? Because we've talked already about things like the European Accessibility Act. But interestingly, the European Accessibility Act, to my knowledge, doesn't deal a huge amount with things like personal health devices. Or am I wrong in that or? Yeah, it doesn't specifically call out health. It's they basically pinpointed what they call critical services, one of which being e-commerce. And the way they've defined e-commerce is basically anything that you can pay for at a distance. So it could be something like a health app or a digital scales. If you're paying for it as a distance, i.e. online or over the phone, then they would be in scope of the European Accessibility Act. They have, however, given an extra five years to comply for anything where there is like a service reliant on a product. So a case like this where you have both a hardware and software that needs to work together, they actually have till 2030 to comply because it's a bit more complicated. There's two bits to it. You have to go back to manufacturing. Then you have to update the software app or so on to link up with the more accessible hardware and so on. So my hopes is that by the time 2030 comes, they'll be a lot more accessible. They would have considered all of these pieces because all of this life cycle is in scope of the European Accessibility Act, not just a website, an app or a device. I do want to briefly ask before we chat to her in a bit, what are your general thoughts on Leah's idea around making those kind of more accessible pregnancy tests? I think it's a really great idea. And what I like about Leah's is that there's multiple ways to go about getting your results. So it's not just relying on one outcome, be it an app or so on. And obviously, Leah can go into more detail of this. But I really like that because I think it incorporates more disabilities as well. And a lot of products before that have been made specifically to be accessible to people with visual impairments or low vision or so on will just focus on that disability. And so if you have an intersectionality of multiple disabilities, maybe you have mobility issues as well as sight loss and you might still be excluded. And so I like that Leah has multiple kind of pathways for getting your results. Brilliant stuff. Adela, thank you so, so much for joining us as always. Really appreciated. Where can people find out more about the work that you guys do over at Vialli? So we have a website, and the link is www.viali.io. Vialli is spelled V-I-A-L-L-Y, but I can also be contacted if you want any further information. Yeah, super stuff. Adela, for now, thank you so, so much. And I'm sure you'll be back on Talkin' Technology before we know it. Thanks, David. And thanks so much to Adela for that really interesting conversation. And I suppose not one that I, especially on the pregnancy test front, can really relate to as such. But I think we all understand that need for privacy, Joe, I think is something that's so important and often lacking, especially with health tests for blind and visually impaired people, because sometimes you're going to get a result you want and then sometimes you're not. And I think to be confronted with that, oftentimes not being the first to know, that's very unfair for people in a lot of ways. Yeah, it's the invasion of privacy and not being able to have the independence to do it yourself. This, Lea, Sian's, I don't know what you call it, invention or speed, this pregnancy test, it's going to be brilliant for anybody that's vision impaired. Vision impaired ladies that want to check, and couples that want to check if they're positive or negative. It's just that little bit of privacy and independence, it's brilliant, David, absolutely brilliant. But look, I know I didn't have that in my case with our two kids. First time around, it was in a medical situation, I suppose, GP. And look, it's always awkward when there's a third person involved. And then the second time around, we used Be My Eyes. But that was a bit better, I suppose, a bit more crack in it and less clinical, by the way. But both are not as good as having your own personal pregnancy test that you can use independently, like that we've just listened to there. Well, that's really interesting. If you don't mind me asking, did you guys use the clear blue feature through Be My Eyes? Yeah, yeah, the Be My Eyes, yeah. No, we didn't use the clear blue. We used the clear blue test, but not that feature wasn't available for some reason. That thing went a bit hot and cold for a while. It was there available one time, we just used the volunteer service. So call a volunteer, ask them, does that say whether it's positive or negative? And the other side, which is probably even better, I don't know why I think that. But a lady in her late 20s, early 30s, and she was delighted to get the call. And I suppose the fact that it was positive made it better for her as well at the other side. So it was a success story of you could hear the joy in her voice as well as ours. So that was all the way it all worked out and all good. And things are great now, four and a half years later. So, yeah, that's the way it happened. What an incredible Be My Eyes call to get. But also, though, I think it is important to point out, you know, it is important that people have that option to do that privately. And, you know, you're never, even as Adele was saying there, you're never the first person to find out. You know, and I think that is that's hugely important for people, isn't it? Oh, that's hugely important. I think, as you say, if it was bad news, for example, or you were trying for years and, you know, your biological clock's ticking, and it's the worst it gets, like, you know what I mean? So I think to keep that extra little bit of stress off the shoulders, it's good to have the independence, you know, for it's fine if you wanted a friend around or something other than your husband or whatever, or wife, whatever it may be. You know, it's fine if you wanted somebody around. But if you don't and you want to cope with these things yourself, if it is a disappointing result, you should have the right to do that, you know? And then to have the joy of receiving a positive result from the test, then that's all better again. So, yeah, no, I think this could be brought in in other guises in different tests, whether it be COVID and that kind of stuff as well. So I can't think of other examples I'd like it in now, but I'm sure there's lots of different tests, whether it be kidney infections or COVID tests or I don't know. But look, this example, other companies should take from this example and use it. I just think this kind of development is great. Absolutely. Well, let's have a listen then to Leah Shanahan. Leah is after designing a new pregnancy test as part of her final year project in UL. It's not readily available yet. It is at this stage, unfortunately, just a design. But what it does show us is that this is possible. It can be done. And I'll let Leah take it from here because it's a really interesting story. Now on Talking Technology, I'm delighted to be joined by the designer of Amy, a new pregnancy test for blind and visually impaired people, Miss Leah Shanahan. Leah, how are things? Good, good. Thank you so much for having me on. You're very welcome. So I suppose let's start at the beginning, Leah. What is Amy? Tell me about Amy. This is a really cool new pregnancy test that you created as part of a college assignment. Yeah, so I studied, I just recently graduated from Product Design and Technology in the University of Limerick, and as part of my course, my final year project, we were asked to find a problem area and design a solution for a problem we found in that area. So for me, I decided to design a pregnancy test for blind and visually impaired people. And what Amy is essentially is a, it's a saliva-based pregnancy test, which is technology that already exists. So you take your test sample with saliva. And then there's a reader that will communicate your results to you in three different ways. So there's a tactile plus or minus sign, depending on your result. And then also you can connect it to your phone that will bring you to a screen that has a large red or green image and is also screen reader compatible that will read aloud to you what your result is as well. Awesome stuff. So I suppose let's start then like at that idea phase. Where did that idea come from? Where did the idea of working on a pregnancy test for blind or visually impaired women come from? Because the idea is quite niche to say the least. Yeah. So like I say, as part of our college final year project, what we were asked to do was find a problem area. So the problem area that I decided to look into was where there are gaps in accessibility in women's healthcare. And through that, then I ended up reaching out, it was actually Vision Ireland that I reached out to originally to ask, they put me in contact with some women who could speak on that issue. So they put me in contact with four blind women and it was through those conversations with them, along with some kind of research online of, you know, people who shared their experiences on YouTube, et cetera, that I found this is like a major issue that blind women are the only group of women who do not get to be the first person to find out that they're pregnant. And that's a hugely important issue, isn't it? It's kind of one of these things that I suppose many, you know, regular pregnancy test companies, I suppose, don't really consider. We, you know, look at companies like your Clear Blues and they've tried, you know, through integrations like the Be My Eyes app and a few others, but they're still, you know, that's still relying on someone else. And the great thing about this is you don't have to rely on someone else. Yeah, like you mentioned with the Clear Blue, the Clear Blue Be My Eyes integration, like it's a brilliant, it's a great step in the right direction in terms of like, you know, getting women in contact with, getting women, blind women to be able to like find out whether or not they're pregnant relatively independently. But like it was even, it was actually through, like I mentioned YouTube videos, I saw one woman using that and she talked about she was trying to get pregnant, used that Be My Eyes app and it was, she mentioned the kind of having to share that first moment when she found out that she wasn't pregnant and she was disappointed by it. Having to share that moment with someone and having to kind of almost hide her emotions a little bit just because she was still on the phone with someone was just, you know, that was actually a moment that really stuck with me, that that was like a very significant, you know, yes, this is a good solution, but it isn't the best solution. It doesn't give full autonomy to the women. And it's interesting because, you know, we spoke in the office here about this only yesterday and like, you know, there's a lot of things like this, you know, even in a broader sense, be it, you know, pregnancy tests, but also, you know, ovulation tests, COVID tests, a whole variety of tests that this is actually, you know, quite a big issue with. So, you know, how did you, I suppose, go about the process of designing the product? What were the kind of difficulties and roadblocks you ran into or was it relatively straightforward? There was a couple of sort of, I mean, like to talk about more of like how the technology developed. One of the major things that was a concern of mine was to make sure that this solution was as close as it could be cost accessible. Because I felt as though that if you make a solution that, you know, has all this technology and does all these great things, but it's, you know, 30 euro per use that that might, there's still a roadblock there of accessibility. So that was one part of it that I incorporated into it that it's actually a reusable test. So the saliva test sample, you actually dispose of that for the reader that, you know, has the tactile results on it and has the technology to connect to your phone. That part you reuse. So the idea behind it is that that would be kind of one, maybe more expensive part that you just put by once, the reader, and then the test strips you'd, you know, dispose of so that it is a little bit more cost accessible. Because through my research and through thinking, you know, even just talking with the women that spoke at the beginning of the project, one of the issues that was raised then was, you know, it's good to have an accessible solution to something, but often one of the major issues is that it's not cost accessible. So that was probably one of the first kind of roadblocks or kind of issues that I had to work through. How... Yeah, go for it, sorry. No, sorry, that's... How hard is it then, like, because this obviously right now is, you know, a college project, but how hard would it be in theory to commercialize something like this? See, that, like, that's always the big thing, I think, with any, like, especially like a medical product, but also even just to get, like, you know, a niche accessible product. The technology exists. And I verify that with, you know, I verify that the solution would work with the women that I spoke with originally. You know, I went back to them at the end and asked, would this solution work for them? And they all agreed. And I spoke with electrical engineers who were able to verify that the technology would work in the way that I had kind of designed. But that's the problem when you want... When it is about commercialization and when it is about, you know, companies obviously want to make a profit, there's not a huge market for this kind of a thing. And, you know, that's the unfortunate part about designing for accessibility is that often you rely on companies who, you know, for better or for worse, rely on profit. And therefore, this isn't something that they can really move forward with, if you know what I mean. Yeah. And we spoke a little bit before we started recording about things like, you know, universal design principles. Do you think, like, that this, as design evolves, do you think accessibility is going to just become more a part of the mainstream for devices like this? I mean, like, that's the dream, isn't it? And I think, you know, with the likes of, like, Apple in particular, Apple, I know this is a digital product more so than it is a physical product, the way mine is, but Apple is great. I found this out from speaking with my users originally, that, like, Apple is very good at designing accessibility into the core of their devices and the way that they go about it. And the four women that I spoke with were quite, you know, I am not trying to speak on behalf of these women, but, you know, a lot of them did mention that the accessibility features in iPhones were great and were, you know, they were really able to navigate their phones easily or as easily as they could. So, you know, bringing, like, when you have the likes of Apple, who are, like, major designers in that kind of way, designing for accessibility, you'd hope that it would encourage more people and more companies to really incorporate universal design principles and just designing for, you know, designing for disability, designing in a way that, you know, enables people to use the products more easily, will become more and more mainstream over time. And I think it will. I think we are going that way. That's awesome. So, what would you say you kind of learned from this kind of taking forward for your own design going forward? Because I believe you started a new design consultancy role recently, I believe. I did, yeah. I just recently started a new position in Dolman Design and Innovation in Dublin. And I think, like, personally, in my career, one of the things from this project that I'd want to bring forward with me is just knowing that, you know, speaking, especially when it comes to disability or designing for people who have different needs than you do, speaking with those actual users, like not just making assumptions, speaking with the people who you are trying to design for and learning about where their issues lie and where they find what solution works best for them. That's the biggest thing when it comes to designing anything, is just speaking to, you know, the right, speaking to the users and speaking to the people with different needs to you and getting different perspectives on it. Because, you know, you can design for everyone if you're the only person you're talking to, if you know what I mean. Absolutely. Leah, this has been really interesting and I must say it's a fascinating project and something we need to see more of. And hopefully, you know, maybe it will be Amy, maybe it will be something, you know, similar down the road. But hopefully we will see pregnancy tests and other health tests, indeed, like this down the road. But for now, brilliant work. And thank you so much for joining us. This has been a great conversation. So really appreciate it. Thank you so much for having me. And thanks, again, to Leah for joining us here on Towering Technology. Really interesting topic and I'm sure she has a very bright future ahead. It's always great, too, when we have designers who are thinking about the problems being faced by those with vision impairments, with blindness and disabilities in general and wondering, you know, how can we make these things easier for people? That kind of curiosity will take her far, I'm sure. And we do need more of it. So maybe we'll see Amy on the shelves in the future. Maybe we'll see some other companies take what Leah has done and build upon it. But either way, brilliant stuff and wishing her the very best for the future. If you would like to share your own experience with us, very conscious that this is a very personal topic to people. So if people would like to, you can do. If you would like to send us a voice note, you can do so. 086 199 0011. Or you can send us an email to content at vi.ie. If you want to share your thoughts as well, because again, as I say, this can be personal to people. If you would prefer we can anonymize anything that you do want to send us, more than happy to do that as well. So just content at vi.ie. If you have something that you would like to share, we really would appreciate it. Let's move on then. It is time now for Talking Technology News. This is Talking Technology News. So with your latest Talking Technology News, I'm Daniel Dunne. Irish banks are coming together to launch a new platform called ZipPay. ZipPay will launch as part of the existing banking apps from Bank of Ireland, AIB and PTSD and will allow users to quickly send money using a phone number in a similar way to platforms like Revolut and N26 currently do. All customers of the Irish banks will receive information about ZipPay in the coming weeks and information about the upcoming service can now be found on a new website, zippay.ie, all one word, z-i-p-p-a-y.ie. No information about accessibility has been provided, although the platform will be required to meet accessibility standards under the European Accessibility Act. The website seems decently accessible with a screen reader, so this is a promising start. Customers who don't want to use the new service will need to opt out, but it's probably going to be a useful new tool. Do you use Revolut for money transfers? Let us know your thoughts and your feelings on ZipPay with a WhatsApp Vice Note. In other news, making games more accessible has now become more affordable, thanks to an update to the Unity game engine, which is a tool used to make many of the world's most popular games. Unity has received an update which will now allow developers to implement screen reader support for their games using the native screen reader for Windows or Mac. In the past, developers basically had to create their own screen readers within the game, which could be complex and costly. Time will tell if developers use this new feature, and it won't make games more accessible overnight, but this is a much needed step forward that will hopefully make a difference for future games. Separately, in the gaming world, the handheld Steam Deck video game console has rolled out an update, bringing multi-language support to the Steam screen reader. The update is only in testing right now, but yet again, this is also a good sign for the future. There is still a huge amount to be done to make the world of gaming more inclusive, but these steps are good to see. Have you found any games to be particularly accessible? Let us know with a WhatsApp Vice Note. Also this week, Metaglasses are getting an update, which brings calendar support as well as the ability for the glasses to quickly access audible bugs. You could always listen to audible bugs on the glasses by using the Bluetooth connection with your phone, but now it seems that this new integration may potentially make requesting the bugs from the glasses a little bit easier. As for the specifics of calendar support, the Metaglasses can now connect to both Outlook Calendar and Google Calendar, with device assistant able to provide information about upcoming events as well as add appointments for you if you wish. The new features are available on both RayBan and Oakley smart glasses and are rolling out now. To connect audible or calendars, use the connection section of the Meta AI app. The Metaglasses are growing in popularity with an audience of over 80 people joining us for an event demoing the product on Friday across the country. Time will tell if other glasses can take on the Metaglasses over the next few months, but it certainly has been the year for the smart glasses so far. And before we go, a few rapid-fire stories. Apple are expected to announce new iPhones and Apple Watches this evening, and we'll have coverage of that later in the week. Cider cans from Strongbow are now going to have NaviLens codes to improve access to the product information. And in news that we never got to cover in August, Vispero makers of Jaws have announced a new CEO named Rhonda Bassett-Spires. For more stories, you can always check out our Tech on Tap newsletter. And that's it for now. A reminder that we will have another podcast later this week covering all the goings on from this evening's Apple event, and we'll also have coverage across lots of other formats too. Be sure to subscribe everywhere for all the details. For now though, it's back to you, David. Thank you very much, Daniel. And while you were busy diligently reading the news there, I did some quick checking and I can confirm that at the current time, which as we record this, it is Tuesday the 9th of September, and just after three o'clock, but the Apple Store is now offline. There is a sign of updates. It says, be right back. And it explains then that they are making updates to the Apple Store and they will be back soon. So we are just a few hours away. This is typical of Apple ahead of a big launch event like this. So we will probably see new iPhones, new Apple watches, lots of really interesting things to come. So, yeah, they will be right back. And so will we later in the week with loads of coverage of that. So do subscribe. I'll keep reminding you. Do subscribe to Talking Technology and also the ViaLabs YouTube channel because we'll have loads of stuff there later in the week. But let's talk about some of those news stories there. Daniel Zipay, or Zip-pay, or Zipay. I don't know how we're meant to say this quite yet. Is it a play on hurray? Hurray, maybe it is a play on hurray. I like Zipay. I like the name, but is this important or have they already lost to Revolut? I think so. This is a long time after the horses bolted. I think this should have been in here a few years ago in this space. You know, Revolut has really took Ireland by storm. I know when 26 is another service, it was probably not that popular in Ireland. Everybody in my circle, anyway, just seems to be Revolut. So, yeah. So I think, is it going to take off and become as big as Revolut? No, I don't think so. But will it be useful? I think so because there are instances where, you know, people will want to maybe have the money in their bank account rather than in a third-party app such as Revolut. So there is potential for it. Yeah, I think so, David. It's important to have it as well, for sure. I know Revolut have a step ahead of the banks. And this was announced a year or more ago as well. And they cancelled it. I think we covered it at the time. Yeah, I was close to seeing it at the time. That's right. Yeah, but I definitely think there's room for our own personal banks to have this because it can be an accessible pain as well as just a general loose in having to pull money from your personal account over to a Revolut account, especially if you're not 100% user of Revolut. And Revolut, we're at the mercy of their accessibility and their privacy and all the rest of it as well. So I welcome it myself. Yeah, I think it's going to be interesting. I think one of the big advantages is that it's going to be opt out. So most people, you know, you still, and it's rarer nowadays, but you still get people who will say, oh, I don't have a Revolut, which usually sometimes that's a cause for celebration because then you can be like, well, here's my referral code. But other times then it's kind of a case of, well, actually, I just want to literally send you money. And now what am I meant to do? Get your whole eye ban and all this crap. You know, nobody wants to do that. So I think for that, I have hope for Zippe, you know, or Zippe, whatever we want to call it. But yeah, I have hope for it. In other news, those updates to the Metaglasses, Joe. Firstly, you were at the Metaglasses event on Friday. Loads of people very interested at this event. Yeah, there was probably one of the bigger or the biggest events or the event to show the most interest out of any product that we've had before. Probably since the dawn of smart speakers, I'd say, you know. Yeah, these updates, they are what people are looking for, to be able to access your calendar straight from your Metaglasses. So especially your Outlook calendar. So I think they are a good update. If you don't have them, don't panic because they're being rolled out a little bit slower. It's not like you update your Apple phone, everybody has to update. They don't roll them out to everybody at once. So don't panic if you don't see them. And the other thing was, I think it was a couple of weeks ago as well, they had another update which was more detailed recognition descriptions for people with vision impairment. So that will give you, for a while there, you'd ask something about your, from your Metaglasses, you'd ask it, take a look. And it'd come back and tell you the door was on your right. Instead of actually being on your left, it was getting things backwards. Given to you in the mirror image rather than the actual right way around. So now it tells you the door's on your left when it is actually on your left. So it won't confuse you. It also will throw in a couple of little extra descriptive things maybe. It'll say something like the way is clear in front of you. There's no obstacles in front of the door. And it'll say the light switch is on the left-hand side if you're looking for that kind of thing. So that's welcome as well. It just shows that they're thinking of us and they know their market. And there's a lot more people with vision impairment purchasing these Meta Ray-Ban glasses. So I just think that's great, David. And that can only get better. Yeah, I'd be really interested to know what the Metaglasses, you know, like the accessibility purchasing share of actual all together Meta purchases. Like, is this a large percentage of their user base? Because I don't hear about anyone other than blind or visually impaired people being super hyped for Metaglasses. So you wouldn't know. But time will tell on that. David, I'm not disagreeing with you there. But I did look on Facebook and there's obviously a Metaglasses group for blind people. But then there's another Ray-Ban Metaglasses group, you know, doesn't mention anything about people with vision impairments and whatever. But that's got over 10,000 users. So I think just because we're not in that space, maybe it is the fact that we don't hear about other people using them. There's lots of sports enthusiasts using them and people that like to do mountain climbing and hiking and walking and recording. People that like to record their experiences and stuff. And I think that just the ease of taking a photo, I think it's a big seller on Metaglasses apart from the accessibility options. Yeah, absolutely. It's an interesting one and time will tell. But it is good, as you said, to see us getting recognised by the people at Meta for these things. And we did, interestingly, have a Meta executive at the event on Friday. So they are listening, which is good. And hopefully that will continue as well. Lots of other little stories there on accessible gaming. Joe, those Navi lens codes on the cider. Are you a cider fan, first of all? Yeah, I won't say I love cider, if you will get the wrong idea. Do I like cider? Yeah, it drinks the odd bottle into somewhere. Bulmers would be my one of choice. But Strongbow, I think it's more of a brand in the UK. I think it's available over here in off-licences. It'd be interesting to see if we do get a new batch here over in off-licences here in Ireland, will it have the Navi lens code? And it'd be also interesting to see what information it gives us when we scan it with our Navi lens app. And I'm just thinking Navi lens codes, should they be integrated or should they be lumped all in one with your other bar codes, if you know what I mean? Should we be able to access them from your regular code scanner? Yeah, I think it makes sense, you know? At this stage, maybe, yeah, just to bring it universal, you know, make it more mainstream. Absolutely. I do hope that will happen. Interestingly, Joe, apparently we're not allowed to use Vision Ireland cash to buy alcohol. So that's a shame, but we won't be able to test the cider for work. But who knows, maybe in a personal capacity, one of these days I'll end up trying one. Not during working hours anyway, David, not during working hours. So no, yeah, but a strong boss, too strong for me anyway, David. So I'll leave that one on the shelf and we'll hope other beverages, whether they be Carlsberg Zero or an alcoholic beverage that they might include in Navi lens codes, if these ones are a success. Absolutely, 100%. I think the work could be more fun, but look, there you go. Anyway, moving swiftly on, that is about our loss. What a note to end on for this week. But thank you so much for listening to Talking Technology, though. We are going to be back later this week with coverage of the Apple event. And as we say, the Apple Store, it's now offline, so we know stuff is coming. We just don't know what yet. And maybe as you're listening to this, you know stuff that we don't. So, hey, do send us in your thoughts in advance. The number that you need on WhatsApp is 086-199-0011. If you'd like to get in touch with us with a voice note, or you can send us your thoughts to content at vi.ie. Are you going to be upgrading the phone? What do you like? What don't you like? Are you curious about the watches? I'm really looking forward to the new Apple Watch Ultra 3, which has been rumored, but I haven't been keeping up to date with a whole lot of the rumors. So I have a lot to learn later this evening and we'll see how we go. But for now, though, thank you so much for listening. We'll see you again later this week in video form, in podcast form and in newsletter form for cover to the Apple event. And have a safe rest of your week. For now, thanks for listening and we'll see you then. Thanks for listening to the Talking Technology podcast with VI Labs. If you'd like to support our show, please visit vi.ie slash donate. Talking Technology is proudly sponsored by IA Labs, the market leader in digital accessibility services. IA Labs, digital inclusion, your legal obligation.