Talking Technology with V I Labs
This podcast is focused on technology that supports people who are blind and visually impaired. Our panel of IT Trainers & guest panelists discuss all the latest in mainstream and inclusive technology innovations in a fun and informative manner. V I Labs is the technology function within Vision Ireland. Vision Ireland is the national sight loss agency in Ireland. V I Labs provide technology assessments and training for all our service users. We are a not for profit charity, which offers support and services to people of all ages who are experiencing difficulties with their eyesight. Visit www.vi.ie to discover more about our technology services and other range of services Vision Ireland provide
Talking Technology with V I Labs
Accessible voting and BlindShell Updates – Talking Technology episode 99
On this episode of Talking Technology, we explore accessibility issues from the recent presidential election in Ireland and discuss updates for the BlindShell smartphone.
With Ireland recently electing a new president, we share views of those using the ballot paper template. Is voting in Ireland truly accessible?
BlindShell finally supports the Meta glasses, but is the phone living up to its claims of being a smartphone?
We have updates from Vispero and Amazon in tech news, and is the monarch the best invention of 2025?
All that and more in this episode of Talking Technology.
Join the conversation with a WhatsApp voice note now. The number you need is +353 86 199 0011.
0:00 Intro
4:08 Your Voice Notes
9:04 The Presidential Election
27:05 Blindshell Updates and Meta Glasses Support
47:28 Talking Technology News
1:00:42 Outro
This Vision Ireland podcast contains chapter markers. If you want to skip the intro or a topic you don't like, you can use chapter markers to do so. Chapter markers are only supported in some podcast apps. Enjoy the show. Welcome to Talking Technology with VI Labs. At VI Labs, we believe technology is the single greatest enabler for people with sight loss and all disabilities. If you're looking for the latest news and conversation on tech from a more accessible perspective, you've come to the right place. You absolutely have. Hello, everybody. Welcome in to Talking Technology with VI Labs, episode number 99. We are one away from 100. Yes, it is. It is so close. It is. We can practically touch it, which is great. But hey, hope you're keeping well. Hope all is going well for you on this, well, shocking day, weather wise here in Cork, at least. And I believe we actually had a rain warning this morning, a yellow rain warning, which was fun, but I didn't get too soaked. It could absolutely have been worse. So we are surviving. We are moving forward and we have a great podcast coming up for you today. We have thoughts. A lot of people sent us voice notes with their opinions regarding the recent presidential election and specifically how the voting and the accessibility of that voting process worked. We'll be chatting with Kevin Kelly about that in just a bit as well. And also major updates to the blind challenge, specifically the blind chance ability, at least for now, to work with meta glasses. We will talk about all that and more in just a little bit. But hey, a reminder that if you would like to get involved with the show, we'd absolutely love to have your opinions. They really do make the show possible because it allows us to know what you're thinking and then we can use that to guide the show. So we absolutely love hearing from you. And as always, there are loads of ways that you can get in touch. So if you want to join the conversation, the main ways that you can do that. Well, the first is on WhatsApp. You can send us a WhatsApp voice note if you'd like the voice note number that you need there on WhatsApp. It's 086-199-0011. That's 086-199-0011. Or if you would like to do it a good old fashioned way, you can also send us an email to content at vi.ie. That's content at vi.ie for vision Ireland dot i e. And either way, that will reach us and we would love to share your thoughts. So whether it's your views on the news, anything technology, maybe something new that you've tried content at vi.ie or 086-199-0011 on WhatsApp. So a reminder that those aren't calls that you want to make. You do want to use the voice message button, which is located at the bottom of your screen, the bottom right hand corner of your screen. And to go through some of the voice notes that you have sent in over the last week or so on all manner of really interesting topics. I'm joined from Kilkenny by Mr. Joe Lonaghan. Joe, how are you getting on? Good, thank you. Weather's not as bad here. Thanks be to God. So, yeah, I'm keeping well. Good, good. Yeah, it's absolutely filthy down here with a yellow warning this morning. And now, funny enough, I thought actually that yesterday was worse. But there you go. We've had no flooding or anything. So it's certainly been worse. We did have an office flood here once, but not on this occasion. So we're doing well, which is good. You're well used to it down there in Cork. Absolutely. We tend to get soaked on a regular basis down here. But what can you do? So, Joe, loads of voice notes in over the last little while. Our first one in from Michael. Michael had thoughts to share on the news that OpenAI are launching a browser. They're calling it Atlas. And we were asking people, I suppose, you know, how do you use AI and is it replacing search for you? Here's what Michael had to say. I, in response to this week's edition, I use AI all the time now rather than trying to search the web. I find it very useful, but, of course, not to be totally relied upon. In any case, I think that was always the way. Yeah, I think to be honest, I think you're right, Michael. I think it was always the way in a lot of respects because it's not to be relied upon. But it is, I think, a great starting off point, Joe, isn't it? It is. Yes, depending on what app you use. Some people use Perplexity. Some people use the OpenAI. Some people get results from their pictures and all that kind of stuff. So it depends what way you use it. It can be very, very useful. The point of that voice note came in after we wrote an article about OpenAI's new web browser called Atlas. And they have big ambitions for that web browser. They reckon it will rival Google in the long term when it comes to other platforms like Windows and Android and all the rest of it. So, yeah, AI, brilliant, but cannot be relied upon, especially for the fact that it gives us illusions sometimes. So we have to double check our facts. And also, there is now some safeguarding on websites that they don't always allow AI to brush up all their content or grab all their content and give it out for free. So that has to be respected. And you won't get all the facts with AI, but as Michael said, he does use it and finds it great. So, yeah, well, thanks for the voice note, Michael. Absolutely. Thanks, Michael. How do you feel about that OpenAI browser? I know it's only on Mac at the minute and you're a Windows user, Joe. But is it something that you think, yeah, that could be good? Or are you thinking, nah, stick with Chrome or Edge or whatever? It's something I'd like to try because I do like to ask follow up questions and stuff. And I think that is the idea of it. Maybe to keep your search going and ask follow up questions probably has a probably would have a voice mode and stuff like that. So, yeah, as much look, the more AI gets integrated into stuff, I suppose to make sense to have an OpenAI browser. Absolutely for sure. Thank you so much for your thoughts on that, Michael. Much appreciated. We also had voice notes in this week on the Blind Shell. And we'll be talking more about the Blind Shell in a minute. But we had a voice note in from Martin. Martin shared his view on the recent updates to the Blind Shell Classic 3. Hello, labs. Hope you are all doing well. I just like to let you know that the metal Ray-Ban glasses are now working with the Blind Shell Classic 3. I find them very, very good. I am also enjoying listening to your podcast. Great content. Thanks so much, Martin. Really appreciate that. Always good when we hear great feedback and great content, Joe. But we'll talk more about the classic three in a minute. But is this a general step in the right direction? Oh, without a doubt. Very clear. Dictation there from Martin. Thanks very much for your voice note. I've been chatting to Martin on different days and the help desk. He's very disappointed only recently that he couldn't actually get it working for a long time. But then Blind Shell will hear more about it later on when Blind Shell released an update, which allows it to work at the moment. So it's very welcome for people like Martin that has the Blind Shell 3. And it's working quite well at the moment for him. So I just think that anything works, anything works with, well, we call it a so-called smartphone. There's a debate about that. But yeah, I think it works. That's a later conversation. Yeah, that's a later conversation. Yeah. So anything that works like that. I mean, look, he has to be happy with it now at the moment, but let's hope it stays working. Absolutely. Let's indeed hope it stays working. More on that later. Thank you so much for the voice note, Martin, much appreciated as well. We have another voice note in this voice note and a good few voice notes, actually. And lots of people share their thoughts with us on this over the last little while, specifically related to the recent presidential election. We had a presidential election here in Ireland not that long ago. We have now completed that process and our new president, Catherine Connolly, will be, I don't know what's the term that we use over here, inaugurated, I guess, in a few weeks time. I believe that's happening around the 11th of November. But we do have lots of people who shared their voice notes on that whole election process. And the first to share their views on it was Tom. Here is what Tom had to say. Good evening. This is Tom O'Neill in Balbriggan. Very interesting topic, especially on the day of the presidential election to have voted. Today, I voted in Balbriggan and I received the plastic cover, which was the one that was generally used when we had the European elections. It had about 23 slots in it and all we needed to do was three. Extremely untidy, but at the same time effective to some degree. What I would suggest is an option in the manner in which we ring any company today and you press one for groceries, two for household, three for hardware, four for carpets, five for haberdashery or whatever you like. They could do that easily in a constituency situation where you would have seven or 19 or 27 candidates. Press one for your first candidate run the way through and set up options all the way down like that, one to 19 or whatever the case may be. That's something I'd like to see going forward. The idea of the plastic thing is definitely a step forward. The window cover with the peel-off thing, quite effective. If you read Braille, having the Braille markings is quite effective as well. There are pluses and it's a step forward, but there has to be a better way and a more independent way. Thanks for taking the time to listen to this, Tom. Thanks so much, Tom. I really appreciate that and I think to my knowledge, Joe, that is the first time I have ever heard the word haberdashery. Have you heard that word before? No, I just love to know what that means. That's a great word. I think it means whatever. It means some other things. We'll have to check and if it's not in the Oxford English Dictionary, we'll have to get it added because I do love it as a word. So thanks so much for giving us new words for the vocabulary, Tom. Appreciate that. But I think Tom, messing aside, raises some brilliant points here, Joe. And it is crazy in some respects that they used the ballot paper template from the European elections, which were clunky almost by nature because they had so many candidates. When on this occasion, I mean, on the ballot paper, on this occasion, there were three candidates. It's a bit unwieldy, isn't it? That was crazy, really. 23 slots on a paper that has three options, you know. So I agree with Tom's feedback there. Step in the right direction, having our template and stuff. But there could be a couple of templates. It's only a matter of getting the, I suppose, the special printer out, you know, whatever that might be, and then making another template. I know it'll cost a few, Bob. But in today, I think we are a very important minority and we should have the option there to that's made easier for us to vote. And as Tom said, at this stage, there should be a technology option for us, a technical option where we can press one, two, three, etc. So thanks, Tom, for the voice notes. Very interesting. I'm going to, you know, say this perhaps a bit maybe bluntly or more blunt than I should, Joe. Is it, you know, do you find it disrespectful that, you know, cost cutting was done when it came to the ballot paper template? Is that showing blind or visually impaired people disrespect or am I being overly sensitive? No, I agree. I think it is very disrespectful, to be honest with you, a bit of a two fingers to our plight. You know what I mean? I think every vote is really important. And any time you make something even slightly more difficult, it's hard enough to get to the polling office for some people that might be vision impaired or have certain disabilities. But when we get there, we want the experience to be 100 percent accessible, if possible at all. I know they say it's not possible. They don't have the wherewithal, but they're doing it in other countries. I'm not going to give all the examples, to be honest with you, but I'm sure they could look at some other countries now at this stage and make voting fully accessible for us with our, we call it, disability. Absolutely. Tom, thank you so much for the voice note. Really appreciate it. And I can confirm that apparently a haberdashery, it is a store or a shop within a larger department that sells sewing or clothing supplies. So there you go. Now you learn something new every day. So thanks for that, Tom. Loads of others did get in touch on the election topic as well. Another who shared their views with us was Derry. Here's what Derry had to say. Hi, David and Joe. Hope you are keeping well. Derry here from Dublin. So today, 24th of October, I went down to vote for the president and I got my template, which had 27 gaps in it for the 27 candidates that didn't exist. So they were using the old European election one template and it's just print number one and braille number one and then a square box. And then below that, print number two, braille number two and a square box below that, print number three and braille number three and below and draw that in a square box. All the way down to number 27. So only the top three were used. So it was Katrin Connolly, then Jim Gavin and then Heather Humphries. So I thought it was pretty. I mean, the box is lined up eventually after you figured out how to get the damn thing in. But I still don't think we've got it right. And it's such a shame we can't do it on the iPhone. It's a pity we can't do it electronically at this day and age. But I know that's a long way off. But yeah, I definitely gave my number one to the person I wanted to give it to. And then my problem is then if I want to give it a number two or three, I have to write a printed number two. And I think I have done the death of three, but I don't think I have a comfortable eleven or fifteen. So yeah, interesting one. But I think we haven't we haven't landed on the right method yet. I still think it's very messy. This big long template for three candidates. It wasn't really taught to keep up the great work. Oh, by the way, I love my Apple Watch Ultra. I got it. The batch life is amazing. I love the Shazam button. And yeah, you can do more with that button. Keep up the good work. Thanks so much, Derry. I'm glad you're enjoying the Apple Watch Ultra. I am also enjoying my Apple Watch Ultra. I've got the the action button set up for workouts, which I need to be doing more of. But there you go. So thanks for sharing that with us. You know, Joe, Derry touches on a really interesting point here and an issue that I've run into myself before as well, because it can be very difficult, surprisingly difficult, even if you know where the box is and you have a tactile ballot paper template or whatever. It can actually be very difficult, that physical kind of writing of the number, especially if you're not familiar or used to writing like I can barely do a signature. That's the only thing I ever write year to year, you know, like. And it's one of these things where suddenly when you need to write a number, that can be deceptively difficult. And you can almost end up unintentionally spoiling a vote if you don't get that right. So I think Derry touches on a really interesting issue here. Oh, yeah. Derry basically repeats what I said earlier. He's not happy with the process and wishes there was a technology option. But yeah, you're right. There was even a word of people saying, oh, they don't trust pencils at one stage. You're afraid people will rub out the pencil marks. And then if you're blind as well, you're wondering, did that actually go down correctly? You know, you don't want to you probably don't want to ask the person next year or something or, you know, if you want to do something, if you're doing it independently anyway, you know, you just you just might be throwing off a little bit if you make a little mistake. Or as you said, you can nearly spoil your own vote. You're not writing it down properly. It's just not the right system. So, yeah, I think we just have to keep advocating for ourselves and see, can we come to an agreement with someone in the electoral committee and get a better system? Absolutely. Well, look, it's well and good us giving out. And thank you so much for the voice note there to Derry and to Tom for their voice notes on this. It's well and good us giving out. But one of the people who's trying more actively, I guess, to engage on those topics is Kevin Kelly. Kevin runs our advocacy team and runs external affairs here at Vision Ireland. And Kevin, I suppose I want to come to you on this and ask you, I suppose, for your perspective, what do you think, first of all, on what the guys had to say on the subject of accessible voting? The guys, I think, were very fair in their analysis of the voting templates. And I think what they say also would be shared by the vast majority of people who are blind and vision impaired. After the general election in 2024, Vision Ireland ran a survey and 89 per cent of the people who responded to that survey said that they found the experience voting with the template to be difficult or challenging. And the reasons that the lads outlined in their two voice notes there came up across the responses in that survey. That information is something that we compiled and we brought it to the attention of the Department of Housing and local government and to the Electoral Commission. So work is happening in this space. And I think it's a very valid topic that you raised last week in your newsletter to ask people's opinions, because for some people, they're not that enthused about voting. But the fact that people who are blind or vision impaired are still struggling to be able to cast their vote independently is something that does warrant attention. And I think one of the gentlemen in their voice notes referenced the fact that it's great to have the template. And I would be the first to acknowledge the work that Robbie Sinnott did almost 10 years ago now that resulted in us having the template. And that was a huge step forward. It works relatively well for a referendum, but when it comes to PRSVT elections, not so much. And it's interesting because something I found fascinating that the two gentlemen brought up there is I voted with assistance. So I didn't actually use the template on this occasion. But I thought it very strange that they actually used the templates that they had for the European elections, rather than having a more simplified one when there was only on this occasion three candidates on the paper. Yeah, that's something that we've flagged to the department following the election. I'm surmising and haven't got an official response to this, but I imagine that was a cost saving exercise because they had these templates in stock. I don't believe that that's appropriate. And it fits within the spirit of the High Court decision to allow people to vote independently. That's my own personal opinion is something that we will be expressing to the department when we participate in the working group on accessible voting for people with disabilities. It made it even more cumbersome than the process needed to be. What is and you mentioned the working group there, I suppose. What is Vision Ireland doing specifically on the subject and where will that likely go and when will we start to see change in this area? That's a big question. When will we likely to see change? I mean, that's the key question, too, isn't it? It is the key question, but it's a multilayered question, David. I always enjoy coming on the podcast for these sorts of questions. No, but on a serious note, I suppose we have been really active in this space post the election and post our survey in 2024, where, as I said, eight, nine percent of people said they had a difficulty in voting. And as you said yourself, that survey found that 62 62 percent of people chose to use cited assistance as opposed to using the templates. And that doesn't tally with the experience of the general public. So in in response to that, the department, particularly the Electoral Commission in 2026, are commencing a research project to look at ways for people who are blind and vision impaired in particular to allow them to vote independently. So everything will be on the table, including digital means of voting that will be a cross jurisdiction project. There's no definitive timeline as to when the outcome of that report would be. But if we were to move towards electronic or telephone voting, that would require legislative change and that does take some time. But Vision Ireland are very much active in the conversation and will continue to be in the coming months. Fantastic, Kevin. Good to know that at least the options are being considered and are on the table, even if it may take a little while. But for now, thank you so much. Really appreciate you joining us on the show. You're very welcome, David. Any time. Yeah, it's a really interesting topic there. And I think a lot to be said, lots of conversations to be had. But I think there is a consensus that while the ballot paper templates is absolutely a move in the right direction, Joe, still a lot of work to be done. Yeah, a lot of work to be done, but the fact that we can uniquely identify ourselves with an iPhone now, it should become a software issue down the line. And we should be able to maybe open a certain app and then use our fingerprint, our face ID, and then press number one, two, three or whatever. And then click confirm. And that would be a solution for me down the line. But, yeah, as you said, the important question is when and look, Kevin from the doctor even answered that one. So we'll see. Just time will tell. And hopefully the meetings they have going forward will be very positive. Yeah, look, I suppose I understood concerns about electronic voting before. Like genuinely, I would have understood like a lot of the concerns. But then the more I considered it, the more I thought, well, I'm banking on my phone and I care a lot about the security of my banking. I do my taxes on my phone. I care a lot about the security of my taxes, my email, my messages. Like we're trusting our phones with everything, you know, like at what point is voting any different? And I think it's something to consider, but lots of conversations to be had and thank you to everyone who contributed on that. A really interesting conversation. And if you would like to join the conversation on that or other topics as well, you can send us a voice note on 086-199-0011 on WhatsApp. Remember, you do want to use the voice message button or you can send us an email to content at VI.ie, that's content at VI.ie. But now, moving on, there have been lots of recent updates, as Martin mentioned earlier on, to the Blind Show. And one of the biggest ones is an introduction of Metaglass's support, which is a big deal. And this had been a long time coming, Joe. David, especially for Martin, I've been interacting with Martin for the last few weeks as well as some of the other trainers, because he was frustrated that he purchased Metaglass, but couldn't get him to work with, I suppose, an expensive tactile smartphone, like we call it, you know, Blind Shell Classic 3. It's supposed to work with certain external apps, but didn't at the time. But now he's satisfied that he has it working and he's using the Metaglass successfully. So, yeah, so that's where Martin is at at the moment. Absolutely. And I do want to bring in our newsreader extraordinaire, Mr. Daniel Dunne, on this as well. Daniel, I suppose lots of people, you know, will look at this and are happy to see kind of improvements from Blind Shell. But the Blind Shell, it's on a rocky road in some ways because it works with some apps, but notably not with others. Yeah, that's true. Unfortunately so, David and Joe. Look, the Blind Shell has a limited catalogue of apps. So think of your own Apple iPhone or Samsung smartphone. You know, you've got your Play Store, you've got your App Store, you go there, you get your apps. The Blind Shell has something similar, but it's the catalogue. Now, unfortunately, it's not designed in the same way that Play Store is or the Apple App Store is that anybody can more or less put together an app and put it up there, provided you go through the checks and balances with Google and Apple, of course. So what happens is the Blind Shell team in Central Europe, they have to, I guess, modify the app so it will work with the Blind Shell phone. So this leads to, I suppose, a game of chase and catch up that Blind Shell have to, as apps are updated by their respective owners, whether it's Meta updating WhatsApp or Spotify updating their app, that Blind Shell then have to go along, analyse those changes that have been made to the app and make it compatible once again with the Blind Shell phone. So unfortunately, in some instances, that can mean downtime for your favourite app. You know, or if there's significant changes, it can mean a little bit longer outage. So it means as a Blind Shell owner, you've got to be more in tune for making sure your apps are up to date. So you will be, you know, if an app goes down on you, it's off to the catalogue store. Is there an update for this app? Fingers crossed there is. And then hopefully your app works again. If not, you kind of have to wait about until Blind Shell update the app in the catalogue store that is the Blind Shell store. So that is a little bit of a drawback there on it, you know, which I suppose proprietary software pieces. So, yeah. Yeah. And it's, you know, I think it's disappointing because the aim was that with the classic three, so their most recent phone, the aim was that this would be solved by the introduction of third party app support. But the problem with that is that a lot of those third party apps, whether they're relying on Google services or whether they're requiring a specific kind of thing, like this was the issue with the Metaglasses. It required a specific Android feature around Bluetooth that just didn't exist on the Blind Shell. And we're starting to see lots of apps run into this issue, like notably Seeing AI has been having problems. Spotify was having problems recently. And it's a tough kind of it's a tough sell for Blind Shell users, because, Joe, these are expensive phones too. Yeah, they're expensive phones. And over here, the 600 euro mark. So it's you'd probably get a good iPhone 15 for that. You know, I'm not saying any of the newer ones are probably touching the thousand euros for the iPhones. But look, it's it's branded almost as a tactile smartphone. So but you're not exactly getting the full promise of a smartphone, because some of the popular apps like Spotify, which is still not working. It's not all Blind Shell's fault and look, maybe not all Spotify's fault. But it's it's hard to get them lined up and working. So, you know, some of the really important positive things are working on the phone. Yeah, I know that it's first of all, it's tactile. That's why people are buying the phone and there is other apps that do still work. Watch that box fairly well and stuff. But I did welcome that improvement they had last in the last week or so. The Bluetooth support for third party apps. Because, look, as you said, there is so many apps using that Bluetooth support now. That was one hurdle to get over. But there is a few other hurdles for them to go over, as you can see. Yeah, and even it's going to be interesting because like features like the the ally solos glasses, they require a similar feature, but they're going to run into different problems altogether because the ally companion app just doesn't even exist on the Blind Shell store full stop. So there are a lot of problems that they're going to run into here. And, you know, at a certain point, like, you know, like, is the blind shell a smartphone or is it a phone that happens to have some smart features? And I think that's a tough question that we need to ask ourselves. And then at that point, you got to ask, well, does it justify its price? I think it is the second option. It's a tactile phone with some smart features right now. It has some very important smart features like the observable app and which gets some scene descriptions. And you can also read read stuff with it and it has a dictate, but none of where you can make phone calls with your voice. And there's lots of amazing positive things that the Blind Shell has. But to get the full smartphone experience, you'll get the tactile stuff and all that loads of people want. But the full smartphone experience is not quite there yet, which I'm not saying they promised it, but it was one of the things having some support for some third party apps was one of the... It was heavily implied, wasn't it? In fairness, it was heavily implied that, you know, third party app support and to be fair to Blind Shell, they do say upfront, you know, oh, we don't necessarily support these or these are, you know, you know, if it looks, it's your lucky day. But, you know, it is something that I think was a big selling point for the classic three. And it is something they're going to have to come to terms with, is that issue. But in fairness to Blind Shell, I don't want to be overly negative regarding Blind Shell. They have been working to introduce a number of new features and bring some smart features to, in particular, the classic three. And one of those is a feature that, Joe, you referenced there, called Observo. Observo is a AI description tool that lets you get descriptions of images. And just to give you a look at what Observo looks like and sounds like, I recorded a short demo of the feature to give you an idea. So this is Observo on the Blind Shell classic three. So in my hand, I've got the Blind Shell classic three. It's a standard button phone. It's all tactile. So you can just use the up and down arrows above the two key to navigate through the menu. That's all standard enough. Five new notifications. Eleven twenty two a.m. And I'm going to go and show you Observo. Call one of eight messages, two of eight contacts, three of eight. Just going down through it. Tandem four of eight applications, five of eight. And let's go into the apps. Internet browser tools, two of eight. And we'll go to I think the cameras in the media section, actually. Eight media, four of eight camera, one of ten, there we go, let's use the camera. So we boot up the camera and you get a kind of a tactile kind of or an audio kind of indicator, I suppose is the best way to put it. And if I turn the phone to orientation landscape, orientation portrait. So I can do it like that and I'm going to just press to take a picture. Image one of three and I can save image, view image, two or three. Use Observo image description and I'm going to do that instead. So we just give that a second to start working road caster mixing console with sliders sits on a light wooden desk to the left is a blue smartphone with a black screen above black cables run to a white power strip attached to a pale wall. The wall has three outlets with black and white plugs in them. One of one. And there you go. So that is it is indeed a road caster mixing console that I have in front of me. That is how I am able to mix this very podcast to see. But similarly, Observo lets you, you know, read text, it will summarize text, things like that. It's pretty good in that respect. The phone doesn't have support for seeing AI at the minute. Seeing AI is not working particularly well with the phone. And I think it's good that they focused on some of the native apps. But that is definitely its biggest downfall is the challenges with some of those third party apps for sure. Yeah. And look, I don't want to be overly harsh on blind shell here because I think if and sure I'll be interested in your thoughts on this, that Observo feature works really well in fairness. Yeah. That that's great. As you said, some of the native apps work very well like Observo and there will be a lot of people very, very happy because they bought the phone because it's a tactile phone. You have your typical phone keypad on it. So but I suppose, look, you can't have it every way. With Android, I suppose software are made for touch screen phones. And it's probably very hard to convert all of that amazing technology into a phone that has a tactile keypad on it. So look, I think once you know the parameters you're getting into when you buy the blind shell, you'll be happy. But if you think it's going to do every single thing that another smartphone, a modern smartphone will do, you know, it's not going to do all of it. So especially, look, if you're a big fan of Spotify at the moment, you'd be a little bit disappointed. You know, you may have other devices at home that play those kind of things, but I think I don't want to get myself in a quad mire here and look at name and apps and all that, because a lot of the apps could be fixed by next week. You know, this is just the way it is at the moment. It's open. It's up and down. Daniel, what are the challenges for someone using a blind shell who may decide that they want to switch to an iPhone? Is that, you know, how big a jump is that? Is that as scary a jump as many people think? Yeah, it can be. I guess, you know, moving from tactile, obviously, to touch, swipe and gesture is definitely a big learning curve and, you know, to get that right. You know, however, all is not daunting, I guess, and, you know, if you were to move from a tactile phone over to an iPhone or an Android phone, you know, the device assistance that's on the iPhone and on the Android phone is going to get you out of a lot of trouble while you are coming around to learning swipes, gestures, taps. So it's probably not as daunting as it would have been once upon a time. Still is daunting, you know, somebody who's all their experience is tactile phones, push button phones. And now we've got this glass surface, what do we do? But you can fall back on, you know, hey, Siri, make a phone call to whoever, send a text message to whoever or send a WhatsApp message to whoever. You know, so you do have a lot more voice commands and a lot more reliability in that space than you did maybe five, six, seven years ago. And I guess we're, you know, we're waiting for our assistants to become more AI. You know, Google are probably the first ones to make the jump there in the sense that Google is now going from Google Assistant to Gemini. We've seen big push in that and there's rumors that Google, the old Google Assistant that we all knew and love is getting its own set in the new year. So yeah, it's getting the chop. So we'll all be on Gemini, well, all Android users. So yeah, I guess what I'm saying is the jump isn't maybe as daunting as it once was. Still a bit of work in it, you know, getting used to getting used to talk back, getting used to vice over, but you can do quite a bit of work with your voice. There you go. Yeah. It's an interesting one. Yeah. It's food for thought, isn't it? It is. And I mean, look, there are a lot of people who are going to be adamant about sticking with the something like a tactile phone. And I mean, the thing with the tactile phone, they are expensive, you know, so you really do have to balance, you know, well, what am I giving up? Even though I'm spending, you know, north of 600 quid on a classic three, it is worth pointing out. You can get a classic two that's a little bit cheaper, but the classic two doesn't have any of the third party app support and doesn't have features like Luna or observable. So that is something to keep in mind. Luna is the voice assistant on the that is exists on classic three and there's a much more basic voice assistant on the classic two. So lots of things to note, but Joe, do you think they justify their price? Short question, no, I don't think it should be 600 euros. I suppose I do see the argument they're made for the minority. And a lot of the time when someone's made for a minority like us, there is a lot of investment and research goes into it to make it even work for what it does work for. So I suppose I can't argue against it too much. So look, yes, six, it's a little bit steep, but it's worth it for some people, by the way. Fair enough. Fair enough. Well, look, we'd be really interested to hear people's thoughts on the blindshell devices. It is worth it. One of the reasons we covered the topic today is just also to get word out for some of you who may be listening to the podcast, perhaps on a blindshell one phone. If you are a blindshell one phone user, there are going to be some changes. So there are changes to the online services. And basically this means that if you don't update your phone, a lot of those online services such as the Internet radio, some of the calendar features, email login, lots of different things, they are going to stop working and you need to update your phone ASAP. Even if you've got one in the press, now is a good time to whip it out and get it up to date. Because if you don't, from March next year, the update functionality full stop will no longer work. So that is going to be a bit of a problem for you. This is a security update that blindshell are having to roll out. So lots of features, if you're wondering why your classic one is no longer working, your standard blindshell classic, that's why you do want to check for updates there. That I think it's an important message to get out to people as well, Joe, that things do need to be kept up to date. Oh, David, that's probably if anything came from this, it's please update your older blindshells for sure. And the newer one, of course. But the older one, as you said, will not have any Internet support if you don't update it soon. If you leave it in, you call the press there, David, it's a cupboard to anybody else in the whole world. But if you put away in a cupboard or a drawer somewhere, please update it before March 2026. Because if you don't, it won't even allow you to update, believe it or not. It won't be able to get onto the server for updates. So yeah, just update the phone soon as you can, because otherwise it'll become useless. Look, I know some of them are probably a few years old now and lifespan of phones is always different for everybody. But I'd say if you get five years out of a phone, a lot of the time you're doing well. And I suppose it's important to say, Joe, that anyone maybe out there that has a Blindshell One are wondering, oh, I'm supposed to update this or how do we do that? Don't hesitate to get in contact with your local Invision Ireland technology trainer. So we can assist and support that for any of the existing owners of Blindshell One handsets out there. And we also have information on our website too, and how to update it as well, and a recent article which we published about these important updates. Absolutely. There you go. So yeah, you can give us a call to our help desk if you do want to get in touch with a trainer regarding that. The number that you need for that is 1-800-911-110, that's 1-800-911-110. If you do have an older Blindshell or indeed a more modern Blindshell and you have some questions, by all means give us a call. And don't worry, I will be taking Mr. Joe Lanigan up on his total haberdashery of calling a press a cupboard. I will deal with that separately. But for now, thank you so much to everybody who sent in their thoughts on the elections, the Blindshell, all that and more, and please do feel free to continue to get in touch with us. A reminder that if you do want to do that, you can reach us with a WhatsApp voice note. The number that you need there is 086-199-0011, or you can send us an email to content at vi.ie. But with that said, it's time now for the new act. This is Talking Technology News. So with your latest Talking Technology News, I'm Daniel Dunne. Fispero, the makers of JAWS for Windows Screen Reader and the ZoomText Screen Magnifier, have issued a press release regarding future upgrades to their products. We will discuss this in more detail in a future podcast, but for now, here is what the company had to say. At Fispero, we understand that JAWS, ZoomText, and Fusion are more than software. They're essential tools that empower our employees and you to work, learn, and live independently, supporting that independence is a responsibility we're proud to carry. As technology continues to evolve, we're evolving too, so we can continue delivering the reliable, innovative solutions that you count on. That includes some important updates to our upgrade policy now and coming in January 2026. Effective immediately through to December 31, 2025, upgrades are reinstated under the existing structure. All customers are eligible for upgrades, and a valid software maintenance agreement, SMA for short, is required for new and upgrade orders. This is a great opportunity to get current before the policy changes next year. Then beginning on the 1st of January 2026, we're updating our upgrade policy to ensure we can support every customer with the latest features, compatibility updates, and technical care now and in the years to come. We're sharing these changes early so that you have the clarity and time to make the decision that best fits your goals. Here's what's changing. Upgrade eligibility. You'll be eligible to upgrade if you're using a version that is no more than three versions behind the latest release. Example, if you're using version 2023, you'll still be eligible to upgrade in 2026. For older versions, if your software is more than three versions behind, you'll need to either purchase a new license or move to a subscription. Software maintenance agreement SMA, an active SMA will continue to be required for all upgrades and new licenses purchases. As previously advised, software maintenance agreements, SMAs are now time-based and will run for a period of 24 months from the date of purchase. These updates are part of Vespero's ongoing effort to deliver the best possible experience, keeping you connected to innovation, compatibility, and support. As we say, we will discuss this topic in more details on a future episode of the podcast, so do be sure to subscribe for that. In other news, Time Magazine has named the Monarch from Humanware as one of the best inventions of 2025. We've spoken about the Monarch on the podcast before, notably discussing how it gets thrown down the stairs during its testing phase. But in short, the Monarch is a multi-line braille display capable of displaying tactile graphics. It's been developed in collaboration with the American Printing House for the Blind and does mark a big step forward in braille technology. Speaking about recognition in time, Magazine General Manager Bruce Miles, professional solutions at Existler Luxortia and the head of Humanware said, we are deeply honoured that the Monarch has been named one of the best inventions of 2025 by time. In collaboration with our partners at APH, we have transformed braille experience for students, professionals, and lifelong learners around the world. Thanks to our groundbreaking Humanware Accessibility Suite Keysoft, the first to seamlessly integrate braille and tactile graphics, we've challenged the status quo and opened new possibilities in access and inclusion. It's cool to see products related to accessibility being recognised in this way, and hopefully we will continue to see innovation like this for the rest of 2025 and on into 2026. What has your standout technology been so far this year? Let us know with a WhatsApp Vice Note. And finally for now, OpenAI has signed a massive $38 billion deal with Amazon to allow the chat GBT owner to access Amazon's AWS Amazon Web Services computing power. Between Oracle, Broadcom, AMD, and chip-making giant NVIDIA, this new deal with Amazon Web Services means that OpenAI has signed over 1 trillion work of deals already this year for servers and computing infrastructure. Tools like chat GBT require a huge amount of power to run and OpenAI have been securing deals like this to protect their position in the market. OpenAI CEO Sam Altman said, our partnership with AWS Amazon Web Services strengthens the broad compute ecosystem that will power this next era and bring advanced AI to everyone. The news has resulted in a major share price bump for Amazon, so they will be happy campers with that. Do you think OpenAI will be able to make their money back on deals like this? Do let us know with a WhatsApp Vice Note now. And that's it for now. We'll have more great technology content available in our newsletter and on YouTube later this week, so be sure to subscribe for all the latest. We'll even have a rather unique meditation recording for you. For now though, it's back to you David. Take a deep breath in and out. There we go Daniel. Thank you very much for that. Yeah, that's a really weird mindfulness meditation recording that we had a bit of fun with earlier this week. So do look forward to that coming out on the ViaLabs YouTube channel where we will be telling you how to enable audio description in the Headspace app. We'll be telling you all about that later this week. But thank you so much for that, Daniel. Lots to discuss there. Firstly, is Monarch the best innovation of 2025, or if not, what is your standout from 2025? Well, look, I think something like the Monarch is a giant leap forward in braille technology and it's great to see that come to market. I think for braille users, the ability to be able to interpret graphs and graphics has been rather challenging. There has been other innovations in that space before, but I think something like the Monarch really transforms that whole space for braille and tactile users. So yeah, I think it's worth its award, definitely, definitely worth its award. Joe, your thoughts, what's your standout technology from 2025 so far? I do find it interesting. They're telling us about the best innovation of the year and it's still only November, but there you go. Yeah, well, we're not too far away from the end of the year, all the same, but yeah, the Monarch, it was great marketing to get into Time Magazine and now everybody knows about it. Fantastic. And look, I suppose it wasn't an invention of 2025 or anything like that, but in Ireland, we got access to the Meta Glasses AI service, well, I suppose Meta AI for the first time properly, you know, before that it was kind of locked down to USA and UK and stuff like that. But yeah, I think the smart glasses or Meta Glasses, any of them you could get your hands on this year, that was my deal breaker. Yeah, I suppose I probably agree a little bit with Joe, but I think we're talking maybe from an Ireland camp because Meta Glasses really took off here this year, you know, after the thing with the EU got resolved, but they did, you know, it is fair to say they have been outside the Irish market or the EU market up to this point. So maybe... Yeah, from an Irish context, yeah, that's what I'm saying, yeah. I think it's just from an Irish context we had access to them before that. We didn't have access and then Vision Ireland had an event which was organized by Chris Stewart, which went very, very successful back in September and they're booming at the moment. And look, long may they improve and we can't wait for 2026, which the biggest innovation will be developers allowed to make external apps for the Meta AI Glasses. Or will Apple Glasses come roaring in on the scene next year, Joe? I think so. I guess they are looking at Meta Ray-Bans and the other Meta products and saying they've sold over a billion of these. We need to get in there, you know what I mean? So yeah, I think Apple Glasses will. I know Vision Pro is there, but they're going to make an affordable pair eventually. Yeah, they're going to have to. Do you think with the Apple though, like, is it a little bit of, you know, they're coming in on the second round, you know, the second round of matches, you know, if you compare to a tournament and who's going to reach the final and win the Smart Glasses Cup. You know, Apple are kind of sitting in the long grass and seeing what Meta do and are they, you know, effectively, hmm, how can we do this for Apple and what can we do that they can't do? So I think there's a little bit of waiting in the long grass. And even though we know these Apple Glasses are, you know, it's been bandied about late 2026, it could be early 2027, but no one Apple, they'll want to crack Christmas market 2026. So, you know, I have high suspicions they're going to come out around next September, October just to capture that market. And I think, you know, how they integrate with the whole iOS, you know, they're obviously going to go way deeper into iOS than, you know, than the Meta at the moment. So it's very, very interesting year. It's exciting, I think, for next year. Yeah, I like your analogy about the big teams coming in. Like, they have an advantage because they have a good record so far with being a phone for everybody and they'll be a Smart Glasses for everybody, if you know what I mean. I think they will come in with a product. And for us that are vision impaired and blind, it will 99% surely be accessible. So out of the box, if you know what I mean. So I think I'm looking forward to it if they do launch one. And I'd be I'd say I wouldn't be far off first in line to get one of those as long as it was affordable. It wasn't much more than 500 euros. Yeah, I think so, Joe, yeah, it'll come down to the cost. But I think it's a very exciting potential future into twenty twenty six. So really exciting stuff to come. And also in twenty twenty six, a player that wants to be around for the long run is OpenAI. They signed a seven year, thirty eight billion dollar deal with Amazon Web Services, Joe, we did a really interesting conversation before we recorded the podcast. OpenAI is kind of everywhere now, aren't they? OpenAI is absolutely everywhere. And the fact that they have thirty eight billion to invest anywhere in such a short time to become that rich, it's just really astonishing. You know, I think there's probably a lot of people after getting rich even under shares and stuff. But at this stage, to be able to spend that kind of money on and invest in Amazon Web Services and collaborate with Amazon, it's a clever move, really. And maybe the fact that they had to spend so much money, there might have been a bit of pullback from Amazon before this. So who knows? But it is a clever move. Amazon Web Services are integrated in a lot of our lives. And OpenAI is now integrated in a lot of our, in almost everybody's life, whether we like it or not. They'll be won't be long before they'll be maybe they're maybe they're almost bigger than Google. Who knows? But it won't be long before they are bigger than Google and they're talking like, I mean, trillions. There's that kind of money been bandied about with the value of it. So yeah, it's it's worrying and really good for looking at it from both angles. Sometimes these businesses can get a little bit too big, a little bit like certain monopolistic very rich people in the world, I won't bother mentioning their names. But look, some of these companies get very monopolistic. But look, as long as it helps us and we get open AI and AI descriptions, I'm happy. But look, I still don't like them getting too big. Absolutely. There you go. Thank you so much for that, gents. Before we wrap on news, just a note that our friends over at the Anne Sullivan Center, who do some great work for those who are deafblind, they are holding an event in the near future. Daniel, tell us a little bit about this. Yes. So the Anne Sullivan Foundation, OK, they're hosting a drop in assistive technology open day that's on the 8th of November. So that's this coming Saturday. So it's on from midday to 3 p.m. So they're inviting all our listeners and any other service users out there that might have an interest to pop in. You know, so, yeah, just pop that in your diary if you've got a couple of hours free this Saturday afternoon, midday to 3 p.m. at the Anne Sullivan Foundation for the drop in. So lots of assistive technology there to browse around, have a view and maybe get a few ideas. It's absolutely always good to check out what's around and there are some great events and I've heard some brilliant stuff about events from the Anne Sullivan Foundation. So do check that out. But for now, though, that is our show. Thank you so, so much for listening. A reminder that we will have lots of courses upcoming as well. We've got courses coming up on podcasts and audiobooks. There's a few others there, Daniel, I think, as well, isn't there? There is indeed. Yeah. So on the 11th of November, as you mentioned, we got our podcasts, music and audiobooks overview. And then on the 12th of November, we've got a transition to secondary school assistive technology. Chat GPT and AI is on the 13th of November, online shopping tips and tricks is on the 14th of November, setting up accessibility features on your smartphone, 18th of November and finally on the 20th of November, accessibility on a smart TV. So if any of our listeners out there are interested in any of those topics, do get on to training at vi.ie or for a full list of upcoming events, do visit our website vi.ie, go to the news and events section and the first option, their upcoming events on each of those. You can read a little bit more about them if, you know, if you want to find out maybe what's what's happening in the accessibility on a smart TV, is it something that you might like to attend and you can do so then when read the description and drop an email to training at vi.ie expressing your interest and one of our team will be in touch. Absolutely. So there you go. Loads of great stuff happening at Vision Ireland, whether it's technology courses, whether we're campaigning on presidential election and election accessibility in general, there is loads of great stuff happening around the place. So do be sure to keep an eye out on our social media, on our website for all that. You can sign up for Tech on Tap on our website too, that's our newsletter that comes out every single Friday and be sure to subscribe to the ViLabs YouTube channel as well for more accessible content like this podcast, but also that very unusual meditation slash mindfulness session that we have coming out later this week as well. But for now, that is our show. Thank you so, so much for listening. If you'd like to send us a voice note in the meantime, you can do so on WhatsApp with 086 199 0011 or you can send us an email to content at vi.ie and we will be sure to include that in our next podcast, which is episode 100. We are there. We are nearly, nearly there and we will see you then, but for now, thanks for listening. We'll see you soon. Thanks for listening to the Talking Technology podcast with ViLabs. If you'd like to support our show, please visit vi.ie slash donate. Talking Technology is proudly sponsored by IA Labs, the market leader in digital accessibility services. IA Labs, digital inclusion, your legal obligation.