Talking Technology with V I Labs
This podcast is focused on technology that supports people who are blind and visually impaired. Our panel of IT Trainers & guest panelists discuss all the latest in mainstream and inclusive technology innovations in a fun and informative manner. V I Labs is the technology function within Vision Ireland. Vision Ireland is the national sight loss agency in Ireland. V I Labs provide technology assessments and training for all our service users. We are a not for profit charity, which offers support and services to people of all ages who are experiencing difficulties with their eyesight. Visit www.vi.ie to discover more about our technology services and other range of services Vision Ireland provide
Talking Technology with V I Labs
Jaws, Zoomtext, and something new. A conversation with the CEO of Vispero - Talking Technology episode 103
On this packed episode of Talking Technology, we catch up with Rhonda Bassett-Spiers, the CEO of Jaws maker Vispero. We discuss what’s new in Jaws and Zoomtext, and we hear details of an entirely new product currently in development.
We discuss Vispero accounts and changes to how Jaws and Zoomtext licences work, and could Vispero partner with or purchase Be My Eyes? We discuss all that and more.
Dereck Carolan joins us to share some of the services offered by V I Labs at Vision Ireland, also teasing some of the courses on the way this January.
We have coverage of the consumer electronics show in tech news, as well as discussion of major accessibility issues at Leinster House.
Join the conversation with a WhatsApp voice note now. The number you need is +353 86 199 0011.
0:00 Intro
3:14 Voice notes
22:18 An interview with the CEO of Vispero
49:38 What is V I Labs?
1:02:52 Talking Technology News
1:18:29 Outro
This Vision Ireland podcast contains chapter markers. If you want to skip the intro or a topic you don't like, you can use chapter markers to do so. Chapter markers are only supported in some podcast apps. Enjoy the show. Welcome to Talking Technology with VILabs. At VILabs, we believe technology is the single greatest enabler for people with sight loss and all disabilities. If you're looking for the latest news and conversation on tech from a more accessible perspective, you've come to the right place. You have, you know, hello there. Welcome in to Talking Technology with VILabs. Happy New Year to you. Welcome to our first episode of 2026. Hope you're keeping well. Hope you had a good break, a Christmas holiday if you celebrate. Welcome in. We are back in business now. It's like we were never gone really. But we have loads. We've been busy beavers over the break. We've got loads of stuff to discuss today. We've got loads of voice notes in. Thank you to everybody who sent us in voice notes. We've also got a really exciting interview today with the CEO of Vispero nonetheless. Ms Randa Bassett Spears will be with us in a bit to discuss all that's new with JAWS, ZoomText. We'll be talking about Vispero accounts, Vispero licensing, all of that stuff we'll be discussing in just a bit. So do stick with us for that. And we will have information on all of the different services that we've got in VILabs as well as your tech news coming up later on as well. So we really haven't, you know, we took a little break for Christmas, but my goodness, once we were back, we were back and we were back with a bang. So do be sure to stick with us over the next little while, because we really do hope you enjoy the show. And it's worth pointing out that this show, it might be slightly longer, actually, than some of our regular episodes. We'll still try and keep it to just over the hour. But a reminder that at any time, if there is a specific segment that you're interested in, you can use the chapter markers that are available on all of the podcast episodes. Or you can listen if you so desire at one and a half or two X speed there, if you're listening to us on YouTube or in some of the podcast apps. I see nowadays actually with YouTube Premium, you can go all the way up to three X. I don't know if that will be my cup of tea. I like two X personally, although I have listened to audiobooks a little bit faster than that before. So it depends what your style is, but either way, you can listen to us in all manner of different ways. And please do feel free to do so. But with that said, hey, there's no need to just listen to us. You can also contribute if you like. And there are loads of ways that you can join the conversation. We always love to hear from you with loads of voice notes and stuff like that in over Christmas. And if you would like to send us a voice note in, well, there are loads of ways to do so. If you would like to join the conversation, maybe send us some more content in 2026. Maybe you got some new toys of a Christmas or maybe you spotted something at CES, the Consumer Electronics Show. Maybe you've been keeping an eye on technology news around that and you want to share your thoughts. We'd love to hear from you. You can send us a voice note 086-199-0011, that's 086-199-0011. And if you need the country code, by the way, we're based in Ireland, so the country code for Ireland is 353. Just note that if it's of relevance to you. So 086-199-0011, that's 086-199-0011. Or you can send us an email, the good old fashioned way, if you so desire, to content at vi.ie, that's content at vi.ie. But now, though, to go through all of the voice messages and correspondence that we had in over the break, I'm joined from Kilkenny by Mr Joe Lonnigan. Joe, how are you? Hi, David. I'm good, thank you. Excellent stuff, Joe. How was your break? Yeah, break was really good. So I had a nice Christmas, the weather was good, kids had a great time. And we're back now, like you said, we're back at the bank and talking to the CMEO of Freedom Scientific, it's going to be great. Absolutely. Loads to discuss. So, Joe, we've a packed show, so let's get straight down to business then. We had a few voice notes in over the break. Thank you to everybody who sent those in. We're starting off this week with a voice message that we received from Raheem. And Raheem, following up on a tip that we gave in a previous episode of the podcast around setting audio description as a default using the Apple TV app. Hi, folks. Hope you're doing well. Wishing you all a very happy new year. Raheem here, by the way. Thank you for all the advice over the last year. Just to give you some feedback on my query regarding audio description settings being saved in Apple TV. Thanks very much. Your advice actually worked. And yeah, so we did it actually from the settings rather than setting it while playing a series. So now it actually has saved the settings and we have audio description permanently, which is excellent. So look, just I would like to wish you all the very best again with the podcast for 2026. And thanks again. Thank you so much, Raheem. Really appreciate it. Always great to hear that feedback that we're giving on the podcast is actually working in the real world, Joe, isn't it? Yeah, well, I'm delighted that that actually worked. So as we said to Raheem, you're best off, I suppose, to go into the settings of the Apple TV app and set your audio description on as your default. Say as you happen to stop your playback and fiddle around with things and it'll work if you're all visually impaired in the house, there's no harm in having it on by default. So, yeah, I'm glad it worked and happy new year to you too, Raheem and Tina and hope all goes well for 2026. Absolutely. Second that. Thanks so much, Raheem. We also had a voice note in over the break from Keon and Keon, well, he got as many people did, it seems. He got a really cool Christmas present. Hello all. Happy New Year to you all. Well, I'm happy to say I got the Meta Ray-Bans glasses for Christmas. I have to say I'm delighted with them. But here's the next thing I have, right? Do they work? Does the Meta thing work when you're in a phone call? Because it doesn't seem to for me. Do I have to turn something on in settings to get it to work? And how often should I be cleaning them? That's another one thing I want to know to make sure that they're in perfect condition for a long time to come yet. But other than that, I'm delighted with my new Meta Ray-Bans glasses. It's been the present of my dreams that I've been wanting for ages now and they were really worth waiting for. The present of one's dreams nonetheless. That's fantastic to hear, Keon. Glad you're delighted and enjoying the glasses. Joe, we did some testing around the Meta glasses and phone calls. Doesn't seem to be a runner, I'm afraid. No, I tested it only... I double-checked it there only half an hour ago and no, it doesn't work. No, so I think, Keon, you're out of luck with that one. But like I know it certainly works when you can hang up phone calls and all that kind of stuff with it. But no, unfortunately, the Hay Meta command will not work for when you're in a phone call. Because I think the microphone is already being used while you're in the phone call. So then that doesn't allow it to listen to you saying, hey, Meta, there isn't multiple microphones on it, but they're all being used for the quality of the phone call. It's always awkward when you're trying to get an iOS device in particular to do anything where you need multiple microphones working at the same time or multiple apps using the microphone at the same time. It always gets a bit awkward, but one of these things, so sorry on that one, Keon. But in terms of keeping it clean, I mean, yeah, I think a few people asked us this. You can just use the standard wipes, first of all, that you have for glasses and stuff like that. There's no need to do anything too fancy with them. But just kind of give them a clean, you know, just every kind of so often, it doesn't need to be constant. But it's like anything, you know, you clean, you know, any regular glasses. I mean, you know, would you clean glasses kind of at least once a week, Joe, or am I being unreasonable? Well, look, if you're the type to leave fingerprints on things and stuff like that, or maybe use your hands a lot as we do. Maybe you might leave smudges and stuff on them, but I wouldn't be overly concerned about it or anything. I just buy a microfiber wipe that you get in some of those, say, specks ever or something like that. Just a specialized microfiber wipe or cloth and use that and don't use anything wet on it, you know. So that's all I would do. And give it a tiny little wipe around the little openings of the microphone areas and stuff like that as well. And that's about the size of it. I haven't heard anybody complaining that their glasses have got overly destroyed by grout or dust or anything like that. But you're not supposed to wear them in the rain. Sorry, the Vanguard ones might be water resistant, but the general metal glasses are not. So be wary of that. Absolutely. Do you know what? I think with things like that, you'll feel as well if it's starting to get a bit grubby. Do you know what I mean? Hopefully you have a clean before it gets to that point. But if things are starting to get a bit a bit dodgy there, you're going to feel it, I think, as well. So, you know, that's always one one test that you can do there for sure. But, Keon, glad you're enjoying the new glasses. And thank you so much for sending us in the voice note. Do continue to let us know how you get on with them. It's always good to hear technology benefiting people. So thank you so much for that. Similar voice note in, albeit slightly different, from Edvard. Edvard also managed to get a pair of metal glasses for Christmas. Hey, guys. Happy New Year. You know how you had a call with Santi there before Christmas? How does he know my address? Because he dropped the metal glasses at my door. Anyways, guess who got the metal glasses? I really find them so handy, lads. Honestly, God, I'm still getting a hang of them. We're looking forward to try them when they when I'm out. If you guys could kind of answer me a few questions here, like. Should I turn on automatic software updates for the glasses as well? Because I heard that it's recommended really to keep them off. But I mean, why would you want to keep them off? So if you guys could answer me those questions, really be appreciated. Anyways, thanks so much. Thanks so much, Edvard. Really appreciate that. We did have to cut Edvard's message down slightly for time. Edvard did have a few questions, some of which we've already addressed around cleaning and calls and so on and so forth. But that one there, Joe, on the automatic updates, that's an important one as well. There are reasons, you know, there are pros and cons to leave it on and off here, really, aren't there? There is, I suppose. Some people say leave them off in case they shut off a feature that you really liked or they got rid of something. And some people say leave them on so we get all the new features. But like, where does that begin and end? Because I think eventually you won't have to update them anyway. You know what I mean? For security and all other things. So I'd be in the land of leave them on and hope for the best, because they're not going to get rid of the really important stuff, like, obviously, your hey, a metal command and your be my eyes stuff and some of the accessibility things that they're already famous for. I can't see them getting going backwards on those things. Sure. So I'm not sure what kind of things that it would not be good for. So unless you have a better idea, David, why you wouldn't turn on the automatic updates. But I think they have a lot of recently good updates, like include new reminders. You can link them now to your reminders app and you can sync them as far as I know, to some of your email notifications, that kind of stuff. But, yeah, so I don't see as long as they're linking to all different types of apps and they're linking with new apps all the time. I think leave yourself open to the good stuff. Don't cut yourself. Don't hold yourself back. Absolutely. Yeah. Look, I've been stung by automatic updates before with apps and stuff. But with that said, I do think you might as well leave the updates on with something like this, because, as you say, Joe, it's really unlikely they're going to fundamentally just break what you're doing overnight. And the great thing about the meta glasses now that probably wasn't the case before is they have a large proportion of users who are blind or visually impaired. So in that respect, you know, if there is a major issue that fundamentally changes something, there's going to be kickback that meta will hear. So, look, I would feel OK leaving automatic updates on. But it depends if you don't want the risk and you'd rather wait, then maybe turn them off. There's pros and cons, I think. And there's a massive Facebook group out there, too, that are a common group, blind and visually impaired meta glasses group. You'll find it by just typing that in to Facebook. There'll be a couple of groups like that, but you can ask questions on that as well and see what other people's experiences with the meta glasses. And I suppose you don't just have to take our advice and see what other people have done. Have they held off? Have they just let it go to the automatic updates? I haven't had no bad experience with automatic updates yet. So just watch the space. I'd say we'll be OK. Don't jinx it now, Joe. Don't jinx it. Yeah, I think the best thing to do is, you know, as you said there about the Facebook groups and all that, is if you were to leave them off, maybe, but just keep in tune with the likes of those groups. So if there is features that other people are boasting, then you can say, OK, it must be grand to do an update and put it in. And that way then you avoid the updates that you don't want to get. That's true. Very true. Perfect. So thank you so much for that, Edvard. Edvard did have another point there about the length of video that you can record on the meta glasses. It's up to three minutes at the moment. Edvard was saying that he'd like it to be longer, but who knows? Maybe that will evolve as the technology evolves in the future. Time will only tell. Thanks for that, Edvard. And to everyone who sent us voice notes over the break, we did also receive some correspondence by email. And to read that, we have Mr. Daniel Dunn. Daniel, how are things? Hi. So first of all, we've got Angel and she writes in, first of all, to wish us all a Happy New Year. And she goes on to say she loves the different topics and tips that she hears on the podcast. So thank you so much for that, Angel. She has a question and what she wants to find out is when you have an image that someone else has sent you in a notification on Facebook or if somebody has put an image on Instagram, is there a way you can share it and get the likes of Be My Eyes or Seeing AI or some other app to describe what is in the image? You know, just like the way you can do it, I guess, in an image that's in WhatsApp. So she's just curious to know, has anybody cracked that nut? Absolutely. And cracked that nut we have. So, yeah, there are loads of ways to do it. But we actually found and we were looking at different ways to do this and we don't know what iPhone you have, Angel. So apologies for that. But if it is one of the newer iPhones, you can actually just use Siri for this. So you can ask Siri something to the effect of what's on my screen. And do you know what they say fail to prepare and fail to prepare, then prepare to fail. Well, we did prepare because we didn't want to fail. So we did record a short demo of how this works earlier on. So here is how it works when you use, you know, you can use Facebook or Instagram or any app for that matter. And here's how it works when you use Siri to check what is on your screen. OK, so I'm on Instagram and I'm on the page of everyone's favourite sight loss organisation, namely Vision Ireland. And what I'm going to do is I'm going to use Siri as normal and I'm just going to ask describe the image on my screen. Would you like me to send the screenshot to chat GPT? Yes. The image is an Instagram post from Vision Ireland. It features a dark blue background with an orange and white party popper illustration at the top, releasing confetti and stars. Below it, the text says Happy New Year in white and Vision Ireland in orange. The caption thanks staff, volunteers and partners for their support in 2025 and looks forward to improving opportunities for people who are blind or vision impaired across Ireland in 2026. That was from chat GPT. Check important info for mistakes. And there you have it. It's as simple as that. So you literally just use Siri as you normally would. You ask, you know, what's on my screen or describe the image on my screen or you can ask it in any way, shape or form that you want. Really, it should usually understand you and away you go from there. It will tell you what is on the screen and it works the same way, whether it's Instagram, whether it's Facebook or indeed any other app that you have on your phone. So there you have it. A handy one for sure, Joe, one that is, I think, actually quite useful. Very good. And it's very quick. I know you'll have to have your iPhone 15 and upwards or any phone that supports Apple Intelligence. But at the same time, if you don't, you can take a screenshot of that Instagram or Facebook post and then you can go into your photos and you can go to share. And then go down to recognize with scene AI or recognize would be my AI. So there is other options for people to have 14 and below. So they don't lose face if you can't use describe my screen from Apple Intelligence. So my one. And don't forget, when you are setting that up, you have to agree to using chat GPT on your first the first time you do it. We also have an article on that particular operation that you've just demonstrated, David, it's on our website via technology. Awesome stuff, Joe. Thank you so much. And Angel, thank you for the brilliant question. Really do appreciate it. And thank you to everyone who sent us in that correspondence over the break. And we'd love to hear more of it. If you want to send us a voice note, you can do so on WhatsApp. It's 086-199-0011. Or you can send us an email to content at V.I. dot I.E. But now then, let's move on. I'm really excited for this one. Earlier this month, I caught up with Rhonda Bassett Spears and Rhonda is the CEO of Vespero, who make Jaws. They make Zoom text, Fusion, a whole range of digital magnifiers there under a number of different brands. They really do a huge amount. They have a company called TPGI, who do accessibility testing and training and stuff like that as well. Huge accessibility company. And Rhonda joined us to catch up not only about what's new in Jaws and Zoom text in 2026, but also to get a view of what's coming in the future for Vespero. Here is what happened when I caught up with Rhonda. So joining me now on Talking Technology, I am delighted to be joined by Rhonda Bassett Spears, who is the CEO of Vespero, the company that make Jaws, Zoom text and Fusion. Rhonda, how are you? I'm very well, thank you. How about yourself? Great, thank you. So, Rhonda, you're new to the position of CEO at Vespero, obviously the top job. How are you settling in? Well, it's been about four months so far, so settling in very well just by way of background. My background is primarily software as well as some hardware in my career. So I started my career as a software engineer and slowly over time, I've become obviously more of an operator. And now this is my third time being a CEO. This is my first time being CEO in a mission based company, which I really resonate with the mission. It's part of what excited me about the opportunity. So on that then, how did you find, you know, stepping into the world of blindness and vision impairment for the first time? So I wouldn't say it's the first time. Growing up, my grandmother was vision impaired and went blind. And so as you know, growing up with my grandmother, all I really remember is experiences with her when she did have low vision and then again eventually became blind. And so that was really my first introduction. And then my mother, she lost her sight about 15 years ago. And, you know, it was an evolution over time. And when she first started losing her sight, both my grandmother and mother were big readers in younger lives. And for my grandmother, you know, my father and my mother and others in the family would read the newspaper aloud to her because she was a very big, very interested in current events. For my mother, she read a lot of books. And so I was working and, you know, my father had passed away, so there wasn't an opportunity for one of us to read to her. So I bought her an iPad and she never used a computer before. And it was very enabling because at least she was able to zoom in and she had one word per screen. The problem was, is all she could do was read a book. She couldn't buy them. She couldn't download them. There were so many things she couldn't do. So it opened my eyes and I would say sensitized me and in many ways frustrated me because technology is pretty far along. And if that's the best we could do at the time, that just wasn't enough. So that was my experience coming into this job. You know, understanding a little bit again, not personal experience, but understanding through family members and loved ones what the challenges in the world really are. Coming into this role, we have a good percentage of low vision and blind employees. And when I first joined the company, I met one on one with most folks or small groups. And since then, I have formed a monthly meeting with our low vision and blind community within the company because they're a subset of the overall community. But they're they're very they're very forthright with their opinions and their feedback. And it really helps, I would say, you know, helps me navigate. Always good to have that feedback for sure. So, Rhonda, I guess lots of people listening to this, they may be JAWS or ZoomText users. They may have Fusion and they'll be curious as to what's new with the products. So do you want to give us a little bit about what's new in the twenty twenty six releases of JAWS, ZoomText and Fusion? So I would say for JAWS and ZoomText, one of the challenges has become innovation has been very I don't want to say slow. I think Vespero has done a really great job of keeping both of those products current as things change. Right. And so, you know, as there's operating system changes or things like that, they've kept that we've really kept pace. Right. And but a lot of our development time and energy has gone into keeping pace with changes that are outside of our immediate control. Right. So both products we've innovated, we've typically had in the past an annual upgrade. And and then every other month or every eight weeks or so, we'll issue a more minor upgrade. That's shifting in twenty twenty six. And so we won't necessarily have one major upgrade, but rather we'll have continuous upgrades. And so we're one of the areas we're investing in fairly heavily is AI, because in my belief, AI is purpose built for assistive technology. And so we're leveraging AI, we're building what we call and we haven't we don't have a name yet. So I apologize for that. But we're basically building an intelligent assistant to JAWS where JAWS has been around for 30 years and we believe it'll be around another 30 years. We believe there's opportunities to leverage AI to create a new interaction model that will reduce the cognitive load and accelerate adoption, particularly among younger users. And so we're looking at doing things like, for example, instant summaries of complex information. And the ability for conversational follow up that will dramatically reduce the cognitive load associated with using JAWS. And so, for example, we'll be doing things like actions that, you know, for example, a user user receives an email and there's attachments to that email. We'll be able to give an instant summary of what each attachment, what information each attachment provides or contains such that then the user can use conversational follow ups. And so that'll, you know, one, accelerate the interaction time. Right. And so it'll replace that step by step navigation, enabling, you know, users that will excuse me, an interaction model that will increase independence and efficiency while keeping the user in full control. Right. And providing continuous feedback. And so I mentioned the example of, you know, when there's an attachment in Excel spreadsheet, it'll be able to summarize what's in there. And then the user can query and ask questions to get to the specific information they're interested in. The same thing as pertains to a Word document. So those are some of the things that we're working on and coming in twenty twenty six. We're moving pretty quickly. We've got a demo that we're planning for our internal meeting, which is an early January. We have a sales kickoff meeting that is global in nature for for our software team. And so we'll be doing a demo of that then and then at CSUN, we'll be meeting with our dealers and also demoing a little bit more further along product at that point. And we hope to be in a position to be able to offer this in the second half of twenty twenty six. So that's one area that there are others. You mentioned it there kind of as a product. Is this a separate product to Jaws and Zoom text akin to an add on? Or is it going to or are you envisioning more as part of the product more akin to say, you know, the the Sharkey and Zoomie voice assistants that have existed and still exist? Yeah, no, it'll be a separate product. So what we found in some of our research and again, we're I'll talk a little bit more about how we're how we're doing research and how we want to do research actually going forward. But it'll be a separate product. There are a number of JAWS users and we do have some some AI type capability that we've introduced in JAWS over the past year. So, for example, we introduced what we call FS Companion, which stands for Freedom Scientific Companion. We're going to be actually renaming that going forward. I suspect you said that. Yeah, yeah, we're going to be renaming that. But we did that. We've also integrated picture smart things like that into JAWS. But what we found is, is that there are users that are very comfortable or there's implementations of JAWS and Zoom text infusion that that may that where there may not be an interest in leveraging an intelligent assistant, right? Like this AI. So we're developing it as a as an assistant. That'll be a separate product, but but integrated and part of the JAWS experience. I suspect that there'll be a number of users that will want to use it. You know, as always, there's always there's some folks that are not necessarily interested in leveraging AI and we have to respect that. So we're trying to plan our product strategy around the different use cases, the home use case, the work use case. So we're really trying to focus our product strategy and our product deliverables along those those needs. You have started with some of those AI rollouts for JAWS and Zoom text 2026. And correct me if I'm wrong in this. There is the introduction of Vispero accounts. So first question, I guess, on that, will that be a requirement for those of us in Ireland or those in the EU or is that US specific currently? So that is right now US specific. The goal of what we call user registration today we have in or in the past, unlike I would say every other company I could think of, we've not required our users to register. And so what that means is, is that when there is any kind of update or anything we want to communicate to our users today, it's impossible. So if there was some kind of security issue, we wouldn't be able to identify and communicate to our users, which is concerning, right? Because we don't want to put our users of our product in any in any in any format of harm, right? In terms of having some security problem. But most but second and most important, some of the new technology that we're introducing is going to be specific to a user experience and user registration helps us provide that specific experience. Additionally, there are some restrictions even in the United States regarding the AI and the use of AI for users under a certain age. So we've got to be very careful. Like all software companies, we've got to make sure that we're covered from a security and standpoint and update standpoint, such that if we need to notify our users of something, we can. And then secondarily, as we're introducing new capabilities specifically with AI, we can then customize their experience around that individual. And then last point and very important point is we've got to make sure we comply with regulations regarding accessibility with AI and what users in a certain age demographic are allowed or not allowed to to leverage. So we've got to it's walking a little bit of a tightrope. Sure. But that's really the that's really the overall reasoning. Staying in the EU, then there's been a lot of talk in the last little while around licenses and how the licensing for JAWS, ZoomText and Fusion is changing. Do you want to tell us a little bit about what exactly is changing and why? So in the past, JAWS, Fusion, ZoomText were sold primarily. Now, I say this in the US, we have a we have a subscription model for home use for home or personal use. But but primarily JAWS, ZoomText and Fusion have been sold historically with perpetual licenses. We haven't required users in the past to purchase in addition support and maintenance, which would give them the ability to contact technical support, give them access to frequent upgrades. That changed in twenty twenty five mid year just before I came to the company that was mandated that if a customer buys a perpetual license, they also need to buy support and maintenance. What's changing going forward is, you know, there there are very few companies in software today that sell perpetual licenses. And the reason is that technology is evolving very quickly and their browser updates, operating systems changes, you know, there's accessibility standards changing by country around the world all time at all times. And so one of the things I think that's been difficult for the company is when you sell a perpetual license, given this environment that we operate in, it puts us in a difficult position because we're not always able to keep up. It's just a reality of what happens. And so the company has decided to move to a term license and or subscription model in twenty twenty six and it'll be sometime in the second half of twenty six. The reason we're doing this is this is the most effective way for us to ensure that our AT software stays aligned with the pace of change that scope that goes on in technology and in the world. Right. It allows us the ability to deliver continuous updates to keep JAWS, Zoom text and fusion stable and compatible given the technology changes. Right. It also enables us to invest more steadily in meaningful improvements to improve accessibility. And that includes AI and other type of technologies. So we look at it as a more predictable, future ready technology approach for users and organizations. And so term license is basically the ability to, you know, people buy them all the time from many companies sell a term license. It's basically a license that enables you to use the software for a period of time. It can be a one year, two year, three year, five year period. It includes all the support you need for that period of time. And so it's a purpose builder. It's very it works very well for government. It works well for tenders where you need a guaranteed price. Customers can pay just like a perpetual all up front and they can capitalize that purchase if they're an enterprise and they so choose to do so or they can recognize the expense over time. So it's it's a it's a great way to serve the education market government. And then there's some enterprises that just prefer a term license. Subscriptions are also an option and we'll offer both. It really it some there are certain verticals or certain end customers that prefer a term license and there's others that prefer subscriptions. So just to be clear, then, so if I choose to let's say I'm purchasing a new license for Zoom text hypothetically, I can purchase my term license for, you know, one to five years, whatever. Let's say two years for argument's sake. After that two years, am I then going to be able to continue using the product, obviously without the updates or support? Boss, am I going to be able to continue to use the product fully or am I going to be reverted back to 40 minute mode? So you'll basically be asked to renew your term license. That's basically what's going to happen. And again, the idea is in the past, we sold a perpetual license. You could use it forever. Now, granted, when there were browser operating system changes, it would it would stop working or at least there may be some significant technology problems with using it. But going forward with term licenses, you'll buy it for a term. You'll use it for a term, much like if you use the Microsoft Office suite at home, you can you can you'll buy it for a year and then it'll auto renew at the end of that period. Sure. How does a company, you know, like you referred to as mission driven earlier on, how does a company like Vespero in a mission driven space kind of balance that mission? But also, I mean, a CEO, you're going to be well aware, you know, you have to deliver profit to shareholders, presumably at the end of a year. So how do you balance the two of those as CEO? And is that a challenge or is it something that is kind of well defined at this point? You know, it's a challenge, but I also think it's well defined. I think that Vespero has done a very good job in the past of navigating. Albeit, I would say, you know, I don't think the company has been as communicative as we need to be. So I think that's another thing you're going to start to see more recently. I've started to publish blogs in terms of keeping our user community more updated in terms of what's changing, what's coming. But as a company, we haven't been very communicative over the over the life of the company, you know, whereas our user community tends to be very vocal. And so that is one challenge. We do need to keep our user community better informed as there's changes. And, you know, for example, things like product roadmaps and what's coming, that's not something in the past we've done. And I, you know, over the past couple of months, I've started to meet with in customers as well as our dealers and our dealers in the U.S. as well as globally, you know, that many of them sell to small businesses or to individuals or or companies. But I've met with over the past six weeks, 23 dealers and, you know, about five or six customers, enterprise more at more enterprise level customers, but also several associations. And a lot of the feedback I've received is around communication. Our customers, they want there are several things they're asking for, but number one is they want to know what's coming. They want to know what's on the product roadmap. When when is it going to be delivered? You know, what's the plan? Because what we've typically done is whenever there's a release, we'll we'll do a blot, we'll do a webinar and we'll announce it. But it's very close to the release date. And we don't always communicate that in a in a way that gets to the entire market as quickly. And so we're going to be doing a lot more in terms of communicating what's coming with our products, what people can expect and also just changes with our business model. Right. As we make the transition from perpetual licenses to term licenses or subscriptions, we're not going to wait till the week before. We're going to start a steady flow of communications to keep the market informed about our plan. And so I think that's one chain or one or two changes communication, but communication specifically of our roadmap. The second thing we want to do is I've received feedback that we have an internal group of users who are low vision and blind that do a lot of testing on our product. And they do a fabulous job. They really do. They give a lot of valuable feedback that really helps to guide some of our internal decisions. But going forward, we also want to engage the broader user community that because the feedback that I've received is our internal users, they do a great job, but they're very familiar with the products. So their filter is a little different than someone who may be a first time user or an irregular user. Right. So that's that's the other thing we want to do is become much better at helping, you know, at engaging our end customers and users who aren't as sophisticated with our technology as some of our internal resources are. So those are a couple of things I would say. You know, the mission remains steadfast. And to your point, we do need to balance between our shareholders. Right. And the community that we're part of. And I think, you know, we're we're navigating. There's been a few tricky situations so far, and I assume there will continue once in a while. There'll be one. But we're very open to feedback. We're we're very open to making things right. You know, so I would just say that, you know, if there if there is a specific issue, feel free to to contact me or to contact Vespero and we'll we'll do our best to make it right. So Vespero is, as you alluded to earlier on, the leader when it comes to, you know, screen magnifiers and screen readers and so on. But you're now looking at entering the AI space. And there are other competitors that are quite well established in this space. You know, Be My Eyes, probably being the most popular, at least at this time. Have you guys at Vespero considered, you know, partnering with them or, dare I say, acquiring them? Is that kind of has that been something that has been thought about? Or are you determined to kind of build this, you know, from the ground up yourselves? You know, it's funny, we've actually been talking about Be My Eyes for for a couple of reasons internally in the company. I would like to meet with them and explore a partnership, because I think there's an opportunity for us to work together. Our focus is is definitely in the consumer market, but it's it's very, very we're very focused on the enterprise market. You know, you have TPGI as well, I believe. That's exactly we do. We have TPGI. And so as you as you start, as things start to evolve at Vespero, you'll start to our focus again has been in the US very much consumer market. But we're good. And also education and government and then in addition, enterprise. Right. And internationally, that's the same, too. I would say internationally with with our products today, we have we have primarily worked through dealers, which is what will continue in the future. But we are definitely going to be more active in the market globally than we have been in the past. Today, the primary three markets where we're I would say we're everywhere today, but we do a lot of work to activate the markets in the US and Germany and the UK. But but and we again, we do business globally. But I don't think we engage with our dealers and partners in the different parts of the world as effectively as we can to make sure they understand the solutions that we have today, what problems they solve. And then in addition, what's coming. So one of the things I'm working on right now is just planning meetings and in-person visits with a lot of our larger dealers around the world and smaller, because I want to get out there to better understand how we can help them serve their markets more effectively. So I do think there's a bigger, bigger role we can play. I just think we've been I want to say on auto control. I mean, JAWS is so well known that there are people that contact us inbound and enterprises every day. Given, you know, my example earlier about how I hired a blind engineer to you look Packard. And I asked him what tool setting needed to do his job, but he said JAWS. And I think that's not an unusual situation. Most many companies, they don't know all of the tools. Right. And so JAWS just has a brand name globally that I think really has helped the company. And going forward, I think that'll continue. But as a company, we're going to innovate more and more leveraging AI and other technologies. And I think also just be in market more, more proactively globally as a change you'll start to see. Second to last question, then, do you see that AI product, you know, outgrowing JAWS in the years to come as this world evolves? No, I really don't. I mean, I think it's one of those things. I mean, I you know, people when they find something that works, right. And this is true in every aspect of life. When you find something that works and you're used to it, people don't change. So I think JAWS is, as I said earlier, it's going to be around another 30 years. And probably beyond that, just because that's the way the world works. When people find something that works for them, that's effective, they just continue to use it. Sure. So Rhonda, thank you so much for the conversation. How can people find out more about Vispero products, JAWS, Zoom, TextFusion? How can people stay up to date, check for upgrades, do all that good stuff? Sure. So number one, we have our website, which is a place people can go to find out information, right? We are going to be launching a new rebranded website in early 2026 that will be provided, but much easier to use navigation and enable our users or customers to find things more easily. I would say our website that we've had up till about two, three months ago had not been updated in a very long time. And there was a wealth of information there, if you could find it. The focus of our website is going to be to make things more accessible, more easy to locate, right? And so that's one thing. And that's one place to go for information. We also have a blog that I've started to publish too, that's available. And then we'll be posting on social media, Facebook, as well as LinkedIn. And our focus going forward is to over communicate, right? It's not even just to communicate what's happening, but it's to over communicate as information. And so there'll be more and more information available in those areas that people can easily locate. Awesome stuff. Rhonda, I'm sure given that intention to over communicate, you'll be back on the podcast at some point again in the future. But for now, I'm sure I will. Thank you so, so much. I know it's early morning for you guys there, but thank you very much. And thank you for joining us on Talking Technology. It's been a pleasure. Have a great day. Thanks again. Thank you so much to Rhonda for joining us. And I'm sure she will be on the podcast again at some stage with that commitment to over communicate. Always good to hear from my point of view as a podcast producer. I think, yeah, we love companies over communicate. That's great news for us. But thank you so much to her for for joining us. And thank you as well to the team at Vispero and also those at Sight and Sound, who did a huge amount of work in helping us get that set up as well. Thank you to Stuart and the team over there as well. Much appreciated. We would love to hear your thoughts on anything that Rhonda had to say. Are you a JAWS user, a ZoomText user? How do you feel about, you know, the direction JAWS is going? How do you feel about term licenses? What are your thoughts on all of this? What do you want in an AI product from Vispero? We'd love to hear all that and more. You can send us a voice note on 086 199 0011. Or you can send us an email to content at vi.ie. Please do send us your thoughts. We'd absolutely love to hear from you. Now, though, on talking technology, moving on, we have an exciting conversation all about the different services that ViLabs offer. You know, you may listen to this podcast regularly, but sometimes you'd wonder, you know, what exactly do we have here at ViLabs? What supports are out there? What is available? What do we do when we're not recording podcasts? Well, there's a huge amount of stuff that we do here at Vision Ireland and at ViLabs. And to tell me all about it, I caught up with Derek Caralan, who is one of the technology trainers here at Vision Ireland and, of course, also doing a huge amount of work with our training courses. Here's what happened when I caught up with Derek. Derek, you're very welcome back to Talking Technology. Firstly, happy new year to you. How are things? Good, David. Happy new year to you as well. Yeah, things are good. Can't complain. Back rest is after Christmas. So ready to go for a new year and looking forward to 2026 and all it brings. So, yeah, absolutely. Lots to be said for that. So, Derek, I suppose we've done so much in 2025, but now we're a new year. We're starting afresh. There's a whole load of different things that we're doing in ViLabs and Vision Ireland over the next little while. What have we got going on? Yeah, so what I might do is I might just kind of just going to recap a little bit on kind of what we are, just in case anybody is joining in or listening to us for the first time. So we're Vision Ireland Labs, OK? So we provide a range of services, OK? And we sit within Vision Ireland, OK? And we focus on the technology and digital inclusion for people who are blind or visually impaired. OK? So what we hope to do is give people access and help them to understand the use of technology in a way supports independence in everyday life. OK? So we work with a wide, wide range of people from families, individuals, professionals, organisations and everything we do. We try and centre around their needs, their experiences and what they need. So then I suppose within our own team, there are a number of different kind of sub teams or different areas that we focus on. So I think one of the big ones and your part of it as well, David, is the help desk and the technical support. OK? So this is somewhere where people can just just ring us up. OK? If they're having issues, there'll be somebody on the other end of the line. So whether you're using a mobile phone, a screen reader, an app or anything causing you trouble or issues, it allows you to basically get in touch. And hopefully we can resolve the issue over the phone. OK? If we don't know what the issue is, we will make a note of it, ring it back and try and sort this. But the idea to help desk is there is somebody at the end of the line. Do you have the number, David, to share whatever you have for them? Yeah, that's one eight hundred nine one one one one zero. So that's one eight hundred nine one one one one zero. And if people do call the main Vision Ireland line as well, you do have the option to press three for technology support. So that option is also there for people who would prefer to do it that way. It's really an important service because there's nothing more frustrating than, you know, you're trying to do something. Maybe it's even in a workplace or something like that. And all of a sudden, you're just, you know, your technology just isn't playing ball. There's really nothing worse, Derek. Exactly. Look at that. My first hand experience here this morning, my technology wasn't working with me. So I kind of had to ring the guys that helped us. They got me sorted and got me back up and running, which is great. Yeah. So that's that's really, you know, even the technology people have tech problems sometimes, Derek. That's the joys of technology, isn't it? Sure. It's when it works and when it doesn't work can be frustrating. But look, we keep moving forward. That's the important thing. There we go. And we've loads of training courses as well. We do one on one and group training. But you've been doing a huge amount of work as well on developing these training courses that we really kind of got on the road last year. That's that's right, David. Yeah, we have a number of training courses coming up. We ran a number of group training courses and individual training courses as well. Throughout last year, the feedback was very, very positive. We offer a wide variety of training courses and we're kickstarting them again now this this month. So this week already, Joe has started off with touch typing. So he did on Monday and. Tuesday, we have Chris doing that setting up your smart device. OK, so tips around that. Then we have Peter linking in with us on Thursday. He's running the Metaglasses group, just an overview on Metaglasses. Very popular. Still a few places left on that. A lot of people want to to reach out to us at training at VI.ie. Then we have some MS Teams training next week with Dorian and we have Chess GPT and AI. Very popular in the news at the moment. So George is going to do a little overview session on that. We also have Mairead back with us towards the 23rd of the month doing uncontracted braille. So that's proven popular. We have a lot of interest in that at the moment. So that's just a real taster around braille and give people a sense of what's involved and how braille works. And it takes away some of the mystery. Sure, of course. But it's a good little kind of sampler to give you an idea of what's happening. Great to see braille so popular too, isn't it? Yeah. Oh, yeah, definitely. It's kind of coming back a little bit. So it had had kind of kind of gone dormant for a while. But no, there seems to be a bit more interest in it. And braille has been coming like linked up with all the newer devices as well. So like even the the updates that we get from Apple and the Android guys, you know, there's always a braille inclusion, which is brilliant, you know. So it is definitely there. Then towards the end of the month, then we have, of course, on booking public transport. I think, David, you're going to do something on Gemini, the Google assistant. So they're telling me? Yeah. And then we have our tech clinic at the end of the month. And the tech clinic is if you're not familiar with this or if any of our listeners aren't familiar with this, is the opportunity to link in with a trainer one on one. So you can send us an email to trainingfvi.ie and just pop in your question, your query. And then you get a one on one session with one of our trainers that will go through your query and help you out any way they can. And I suppose one of the big things that we do as well that are always very popular and these take place across the different regions in which we operate is we have our tech clubs, Derek, as well. Yeah, the tech clubs have been around for a while and they're wonderful. So they are, I have to say, absolutely wonderful. I'm lucky I covered the one in the West and the Midlands. Well, Longford, Westmeath, Daniel does, Lee Shofley, guys. So yeah, so they're great. I know there's a great one down in Cork and there's great ones all over the place. It's just a great opportunity for people to come together once a week, share their experiences, what they use technology for, ask questions in an environment that everybody is there to help. So it's a great hour every week. I really look forward to the one I do. I think you were you involved in the Cork one recently? Yeah, absolutely. We do the Cork one every Wednesday as well. And we've a great group there, very supportive group that join and engage in all sorts of conversations about, you know, what's it could be anything there is. I know it's a technology club, but there is inevitably the odd bit of GAA banter. But that's Cork. So what can you do, Derek? Well, that's it. But look, I think we're the same as well. We sometimes might try to solve some of the problems in the world, too. But, you know, it's good to have that space that people can talk and listen to each other and be respectful towards each other and listen to everybody's opinion. And the beauty about them as well, as I always say to my group and it's probably the same down in Cork, you know, they run every week where I am. Well, you don't have to attend every week. You can drop in and drop out as often as you want or as much as you want. So there is a lot of flexibility there. It's not a case that if you miss one week, you're going to be completely lost because most weeks it's usually we move on to a different topic or a different discussion or if there's something you've missed. We're usually very happy to go back over it again. We do also have and you're you probably know about this if you're you're listening to this podcast. But we do also have a whole variety of content available, including our podcast and newsletter, Derek. That's correct, David. You're probably better, better at speaking about this than me. But I'll give a quick intro and you can fill any gaps that I've missed out on, because in all fairness, yourself and Joe do a lot of the heavy lifting when it comes to this material. So the podcast, which I think you run twice or twice a month, David, isn't it? Yeah, every two weeks. So it's a biweekly podcast at the moment. So that's you're listening to that right now. So that's Talking Technology. It's our biweekly podcast that I suppose has evolved in many iterations over the years. But that's the form it it takes currently, at least. That says and we also then have our weekly newsletter that goes out towards the end of the week. So it does. And it will contain two or three articles, some interesting comments, questions, topics that are that are topical, really. Isn't that right, David? That's it, yeah. So I suppose we've a few different bits as well. Then we've the tech on tap newsletter, as you say. So people can sign up for that on vi.ie. And I guess, you know, that we're trying, as you say there, Derek, to have the latest kind of up to date info on what's going on in the world of technology. So typically we'll have three or four articles in there that you can read along to. Sometimes we do more interactive stuff. One of the really fun and maybe a little silly ones that we did last year was we did an article on how you could enable audio description in the Headspace app, but we did it as an immersive audio meditation. So we do some fun and, you know, we don't want to be boring. Everyone gets loads of boring emails, but we try and make it as engaging as we can. And we do likewise with the podcast, I guess. That's it, yeah, it is. And variety is really, really the key. So it is, you know, just just keep it interesting, keep it topical. And that's what you're doing. And you're doing a great job, in all fairness. And I know we're hoping to expand as this year continues through. And just, I suppose, if people want to sign up for the newsletter or the the podcast to just get a link for it to listen to us, there's a couple of ways to do this. One way could be the could be the straightforward way is drop an email to train at fbi.ie and we can look after you there. Or is there another option, David? Yeah, for newsletter, if people want to, you can Google Vision Ireland Labs newsletter sign up and you will find a link there. I know it's a bit wordy and we are working on improving that. So that is one way that you can do it. But then for the podcasts, it's available on all of the podcast apps. It's available on Alexa. So just search talking technology with the labs and you can subscribe and follow that. If you're listening to this as your first podcast, maybe subscribe. Explore some some of the back catalogue and see what you find. You'd never know what you learn. That's it. Or alternatively, drop an email to training at fbi.ie or sorry, training at fbi.ie or reach out to your local IT trainer. He'll be more than happy to assist you and get you linked in because it is a wonderful resource that's available to everyone. Absolutely. And, you know, we can't assist, I suppose, if we don't know that you need assistance. So please, you know, don't hesitate to reach out to us, whether it is training at fbi.ie, if you're interested in a course or you want to call the help desk there. It's 1-800-911-110 or whether you're listening to a podcast or interacting with the newsletter, all of that stuff. Like, please do feel free to link in with us. That's why we're here. And we really do love providing the support. I think that there's a great value to it, isn't there? Exactly. You can envision our labs exist to make technology work for people. Not the other way around. So whether you're starting off or you're an experienced technology user, we're just here to provide support, training and trusted advice. OK, we're really excited about the year ahead and continuing to develop the services and promote independence, you know, and give people a choice of what's out there. And I suppose we kind of the other thing that we do is the IT assessments, OK, where we welcome people into our offices throughout the country and they can pop in. We listen to what their needs are. We try and do a demo with them or show them so they can try some of the technology hands on. Like, you know, I know the metaglasses were are on great demand since they came out and loads of people have come into different offices throughout the country, got the opportunity to to pop on a pair, try them, test them, gives them a good sense of what they can do or cannot do as the case may be. And then they're in a better position moving forward to make a decision on whether that technology is for them or not. OK, so that's another big part of what we do. Fantastic stuff. Listen, Derek, thank you so much for going through all of that with us. A reminder that people can find out more about all of the things that we do on vi.ie and we regularly plug that stuff on the podcast here as well. So do stay linked in with that. But Derek, for now, thank you so, so much. Thanks, me and David. Talk to you again soon. Cheers. Thanks so much to Derek for that. I really do appreciate his time on that. Always good to hear about the different things going on at ViLabs. And a reminder that if you do want to sign up for a training course, you can send an email to training at vi.ie and you can find out full details of all of the upcoming events on the upcoming events section of the Vision Ireland website. But outside of that now, it's time to move swiftly on for the news. This is Talking Technology News. So which your latest talking technology news? I'm Daniel Dunne. The Consumer Electronics Show, also known as CES, took place in America last week. CES is a convention where lots of technology companies come together to show off their latest products or cool new innovations that they have under development. There were a few assistive technology companies demoing at the event with one of the products being demoed called Pocket Dot. Pocket Dot is a mini Braille display and Perkins keyboard that attaches magnetically to the back of an iPhone, allowing someone to type in Braille as well as read vice-overs output silently. For those of you who have tried the Hebel in the past, it is slightly similar with the Braille display, a single line on the device's surface. Pre-orders are open for the product now, but it still appears to be very much under development. A Braille label printer controlled by a mobile app was also on show at the event. Seemingly similar in design to devices like the Instax Mini Photo printers, the label printer takes text or speech from a phone and can quickly print it to a label. This device could be very useful for sighted people with blind or visually impaired family members who may wish, who may want to assist with the Braille labeling without the required Braille skills themselves. An exciting advancement for sure. The mobility aid Glide, as well as a number of smart glasses companies, demoed at the event too, and we can only wait and see what eventually starts to have an impact on the market. Robot vacuum cleaners continue to grow arms, but this year it was in the Roborock, grabbing all the attention. The Dream Cyber 10 Ultra and its Cyberdex Hyperflex arm were demoed picking up a ball at the event. And in theory, this technology could help to clear obstacles for robot vacuum cleaners, a feature especially useful for those who are blind or visually impaired. Did you hear of any exciting technology that stood out to you at CES? Please let us know with a WhatsApp voice note. You might remember that in a previous episode of Talking Technology, we discussed a number of accessibility advocates being stranded in Leinster House. Members of the HSE Gold Star Disability Awareness Training Program were left stuck after a lift in the complex broke down. Now, a new audit of accessibility for the complex has found over 600 accessibility issues within the space. With up to 200 issues deemed to pose a health and safety risk are likely to give rise to legal action. There are issues with lots of aspects, including a security scanner and perhaps most concerningly, a fire exit. The Irish Times, who obtained the audit through a Freedom of Information request, also state that the audit found there were steps on an evacuation route leading to an emergency exit from the public gallery in the Dáil. Hopefully, we will soon hear improvements are being made, but we can only hope that in time we reach a level of equal access for the national parliament. And finally, this week, AIB have announced that they have upgraded all ATM and CCL machines to provide increased functionality for people who are visually impaired. The move follows a similar move made by Bank of Ireland, announced following the European Accessibility Act taking effect last year in 2025. The new 40 million euro upgrade does more than just improve accessibility, however, with it also reducing emissions for the bank, which can only be a good thing. Upgrades to the machines and buildings have resulted in all AIB branches now being certified as autism friendly by the Autism Charity, as I am, which is great to see. Hopefully, we will see more accessibility announcements in 2026 following the implementation of the European Accessibility Act. All these small changes add up to create a big difference and lead to a more accessible world. And that's it for now, but a reminder that you can sign up for our Tech on Tap newsletter by searching Vision Ireland Labs newsletter sign up on Google. For now, though, it's back to you, David. Thanks very much, Daniel. Loads of great stuff there. Obviously not great to hear about all that mess there at Leinster House. I suppose it's an old building, isn't it? And it does pose some challenges in that regard, but still not great at all by any measure. No, not great. Yeah, like the as well as the story, the old building, like we can go back a good bit to remember the big fiasco over the printer that that they couldn't fit in. That's right. So yeah. Yeah. So that was kind of that, you know, you know, it is quite an old building. It's it's it's it's around a good few hundred years. So, yeah, like you can imagine all works and it being a listed building that it's, you know, it's hard, you know, don't mean to throw the government a bit of slack here, but it is it is going to be hard to get it right. But there's, you know, things too that that that, you know, it wasn't in the news script there, but the Irish Times reporting that some of them, some of the issues were down to even things like placement of statues and stuff like that. I mean, some of that stuff is stuff like we've got to look at that, you know, but hopefully that will improve in time. But hey, all of the other news this week is positive news. Lots of really exciting stuff there at CES, Joe. One we didn't touch on is rumors of a new Clix smartphone. Clix, obviously, they have the keyboard case before. But is the button phone on the way back, Joe, do you think? Yeah, well, last year they brought out a keyboard case and it was very exciting. I was considering purchasing it for a while, but I never actually I mean, my phone wasn't actually new enough at the time. I have an iPhone 17 now. But the thing is, they've moved now to making their own smartphone. And I'm presuming it'll be obviously Android based because obviously you can't make your own iPhone. So it'll be it'll be exciting to see how good it is, how fluent and easy and tactile it actually is. Because if it is good and tactile and works with TalkBack and whatever else, I'd say it'll be a massive hit among the blind and vision impaired community. So I'm looking forward to seeing what that's like when it comes out. For sure. Lots as well on the robot vacuum cleaner front. I know you spoke in our Christmas episode about hopes for robot vacuum cleaners in 2026. And it seems like they're all growing arms, Joe. They'll be growing legs next. No, yeah, well, they actually do have legs. To some we're able to climb stairs and everything now, amazingly. Well, I'm really looking forward to seeing the developments in robot vacuums, because, first of all, AI and object detection has gotten so good, including with the assistance of LiDAR. It's got so good at measuring rooms and detecting legs of tables, chairs, objects, dirt, maybe even dog poo or whatever, you know, whatever is on the ground. It can avoid it or pick it up. Whatever it chooses to do in the right way. But now they're starting to make them with an actual arm. So it can actually pick up objects. And then you can designate an area or a basket so that it'll bring over the object. Say, for example, it's a slipper or a sock, bring over the object and put it in the basket or the designated corner. And then it can go and do its real job, which is vacuuming or mopping the floor, which I think is an actual excellent addition to any robot vacuum. Because sometimes, look, if you're visually impaired or blind, you know, you sometimes you won't notice that there is a sock or a wire or a lace or something that's going to clog up a vacuum. Even dog toys, you know, if guide dogs, you know, lots of blind or visually impaired people will have, you know, you know, guide dogs or kids take your pick. And like, you know, there are toys just everywhere. And I think that can be very handy just to to pick that stuff up. And, you know, as you said, pop it in the basket where you can deal with it later. Exactly. Dog ropes, bones, balls, whatever. I'm this particular one from Dreamy. I forget the full name of the product, but basically it has an arm and it demonstrated picking up a ball. And as anybody would know, picking up a ball with any sort of mechanical object is very tricky. Just try and use those machines, you see, don't try more or bray or something like that. So imagine the technology that goes into actually picking up an object with an arm. So I think that's amazing. And it will retail in around between one thousand euros and fifteen hundred euros when it does come out. And they're not that far away, really, either. So Roborock already has one out. And this one is supposed to be able to carry a heavier object than Roborock's version. So I'm looking forward to the developments in robot factories this year. If anybody wants to watch and there's loads of YouTube clips on about CES, you know, you'll find you'll find them there on YouTube. And they're they're actually quite fun to watch and you. But you will end up in a rabbit hole. So, believe me, absolutely, absolutely. Brilliant stuff. Thank you, Joe. Competition, competition, competition. It's always good to see Roborock and Dreamy there, which will which will get the upper hand. You know, there's so many arm jokes that I could make, but I will try and refrain. But thank you so much for that. One final story before we wrap this up that we didn't get to cover. It's been reported in the last couple of hours as we record this, that Apple and Google have reached an agreement that will see Google Gemini be used to power the new enhanced Siri and Apple Intelligence Foundation models. This is really, really interesting. Big news. Yeah, that's fascinating. Yeah, very natural. Yeah, they've kind of they've just given up, which is wild, isn't it? It is wild because Siri has a look. I'm sorry if I set anybody's phone off there, but it is very hit and miss for that way, you know, I've often tried to send a message. I end up having to say the word change it about three times before we get the exact correct example of the message. And then I can send it. Maybe that's to do with my temporary the southeast accent here, who knows? But I mean, Siri, Siri can work on that. But hopefully Gemini will give it a little bit of help and make it even better than it already is. Yeah, it's going to be interesting to see. And they only agreed a kind of limited partnership with OpenAI recently as well to integrate that within Siri. This seems much more fundamental. Very, very interesting to know what this will lead to, because I think from most people's point of view, you know, there were a lot of growing pains when people were moving over from Google Assistant over to Gemini. But I think it's starting to even out now, isn't it? It is. Yeah, it's it's coming on. You know, we are kind of still with with Google Assistant in the background. But, you know, every time you go to use it now, it's telling you, you know, Gemini is the preferred one. You know, I think the switch off for Google Assistant while it's being slow, announced and announced and announced. I think it's actually coming in this month or next month or March even. And Daniel, will the wakeboard stay the same? Yes. There you go. Yes, interesting. That's it. Yeah, you're still I won't set off everybody's Android phone. But yeah, the wakeboard is still the same. So, yes, it's it's quite it's quite interesting. You know, the the Gemini, I think, has improved very much. So over 2025, I remember when it started off a forest, it was hit and miss. But it's getting one thing I do notice where you might have kind of similarly named contacts. And, you know, the first one or two instances where you're asking them to call that contact and they might Gemini might come in and say, well, is it, you know, Mary A or Mary B? And, you know, you want to call Mary A and might ask you on the second attempt on the third attempt is just going to go straight for Mary A. So there is actually learning, decent learning in it. Which is why I have noticed a good act to be fair as well. You know, I do find Siri OK at that. You know, there is a taxi operator down here in Cork called satellite. And I can say, you know, called satellite, called satellite taxis, called satellite cabs, whatever. And it does genuinely understand what I mean, which is great. But yeah, one one one thing I will say where Siri lets me down is, particularly while driving on, you know, out on, I suppose, on the motorway or the national routes where you're where you're going 100 kilometers an hour, 120 kilometers an hour, depending on the road. And there's that little bit of extra noise in the cabin. Siri does struggle does struggle there, whereas Gemini is a lot sharper. And like you would compose a text message and send it no problem. Whereas Siri, yeah, it's it's sitting there waiting. It's listening to the noise of the road, thinking there's more to come. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's that's one of the, you know. So Siri is good. But in a noisy environment, I think it really suffers. Interesting stuff. Well, there you go. A joint statement from Google and Apple. That's something you don't see every day, that they are going to be collaborating and Google's technology will be used to power Apple's Apple Intelligence Foundation models. And yeah, very interesting stuff that we will talk about more in detail, I'm sure, at some point in the near future. We'll probably be talking about that as we get to things like WWDC later this year. But very interesting stuff for now and great to bring that to you. But for now, that is our show. Thank you so much to everyone who contributed on the show today. Thank you to all the team and really do appreciate you listening as well. A reminder that if you want to check out any of our courses, you can do so on the Vision Ireland website. That's vi.ie and you can check the upcoming events section there. Or if you want to send us a voice note or comment for the podcast, you can do so on 086-199-0011 on WhatsApp or content at vi.ie by EMA. But for now, thank you so, so much for listening. We are going to be back in two weeks time with an episode packed to the rafters on all things Braille. But for now, that's us. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next time. Thanks for listening to the Talking Technology podcast with ViLabs. If you'd like to support our show, please visit vi.ie slash donate. Talking Technology is proudly sponsored by IA Labs, the market leader in digital accessibility services. IA Labs, digital inclusion, your legal obligation.