Irish Braille is changing - Talking Technology episode 104

On this episode of Talking Technology, we’re discussing all things Braille.

Peter Claridge-Bowler tells us about the Brailliant BI 20 and BI 40 X Braille displays from Humanware. Are they any good?

Lina Kouzi from the Vision Ireland library and INBAF tells us about the new unified Irish Braille code, and what it means for those who have been using the Irish language Braille code previously.

And we catch up with Mairead O’Mahony to learn about the Vision Ireland Braille team and some of the services they provide.

It’s all buses and advertising in this week’s tech news, and we of course discuss the weather. It wouldn’t be an Irish podcast if we didn’t, now would it?

Send us a voice note with your thoughts now to +353 86 199 0011. 

0:00 intro (and a discussion on the weather)

2:48 Voice Notes

15:59 The V I Labs Braille team

18 53 Brailliant BI 20 and BI 40 x Braille displays

34:07 Unified Irish Braille

47:33 Talking Technology News

59:45 Outro

Chapters

• 0:17 intro (and a discussion on the weather)
• 2:48 Voice notes
• 15:59 The V I Labs Braille team
• 18:53 Brailliant BI 20 and BI 40 x Braille displays
• 34:07 Unified Irish Braille
• 47:33 Talking Technology news

Transcript

0:00

This Vision Ireland podcast contains chapter markers. If you want to skip the intro or a topic you don't like, you can use chapter markers to do so. Chapter markers are only supported in some podcast apps. Enjoy the show. Welcome to Talking Technology with VI Labs. At VI Labs, we believe technology is the single greatest enabler for people with sight loss and all disabilities. If you're looking for the latest news and conversation on tech, from a more accessible perspective, you've come to the right place. As you do, week in, week out. Hello, everybody. Welcome in to Talking Technology with VI Labs, episode 104. It's our Braille special for January, 2026. Hope you're keeping well. Hope you are surviving the chaotic weather that we have. Although, to be fair, down here in Cork, at least where I am right now, it is glorious. It is dry. We have no issues whatsoever. It is absolutely perfect. But there are parts of the US that are absolutely covered in snow, as we record currently. And indeed, there are parts of Ireland that are experiencing extreme flooding and all sorts of craziness. So lots going on with Mother Nature at the minute. But we are hoping that you're keeping safe and hopefully not being impacted too heavily by the weather going on around the world. But anyway, with that said, maybe you'll be cozy inside enjoying a podcast to get you through the weather event. And hopefully, we can entertain you over the next hour or so, where we have a show literally packed to the rafters with Braille content. We have a review coming up later on the brilliant BI20 and BI40X series of Braille displays. Peter Claridge-Bowler from our Braille team will be discussing that. Mairead will be along to tell us all about some of the Braille groups and Braille training that's available from VI Labs. And we'll be learning about the brand new Irish Braille code. This is unified Irish Braille. And we will be discussing that with Lena, both of the Vision Ireland Library and of INBAF. We'll be discussing that with her later on in the show as well. So do stick around for that. A reminder that you can always listen on 2X speed or jump around the show using chapter markers, if you so wish. And you can also, should you desire, join the conversation by getting in touch with us using a WhatsApp voice note or by email. If you want to be a part of the show, as always, we'd love to hear from you, whether you've got an opinion on technology, maybe you're trying something new, anything like that at all. And maybe you want to respond to some of the questions. In our newsletter, lots of people did that this week, you can send us an email to content at vi.ie. That's content at vi.ie. Or if you so prefer, you can send us a WhatsApp voice note instead, the number that you need for that. 086-199-0011, that's 086-199-0011. Remember, a WhatsApp voice note is not a call. You want to use the voice message button at the bottom corner of your WhatsApp chat screen. 086-199-0011, if you want to get in touch with us. And now to go through some of the correspondence from the week gone by. I am joined from Kilkenny by Mr. Joe Lonegan. Joe, how are you? Hi David, I'm good. Excellent stuff. We're not having a nice good winter. Oh dear. As you're having down there in Cork. Look, it'll blow away soon and we'll hopefully be still here. I think there's a storm named to this one. It's one of these ones that they've given the storm a name and everything, isn't it? So I think it starts with a C, but I can't remember what it is. It's a storm Chandra or something like that. Chandra, that sounds about right, I think. Yeah, absolutely. We share the naming for those who don't know with the Met Office in between Ireland. So our Met Aaron, the UK. And I believe then is it the Spanish are also involved in Joe, I think? That's true. I think Daniel is the weather expert here, but yeah, we'll check in with him later. But I think in Spanish is that kind of drift all right, that kind of part of the world. But we generally do have the same kind of weather as the UK and rain and wind and some winter sun. And that's about the size of it until we get to March or April, hopefully the weather will get a lot better. There we go. Well, look, weather chat aside, we do have loads of technology stuff to get through. We aren't launching a Vision Ireland weather podcast just yet, that will be, or maybe someday in the future, stranger things have happened. But hey, this is our technology podcast and we do have some tech thoughts in. First off, this is responding. We had a correspondence in from Porik. Porik was following up on an article in last week's Tech on Tap newsletter around PRM assist and airport accessibility in general. Here is what he had to say. Hi guys, this is Porik calling in. Look at congratulations on all the fabulous work that you do. Love the show, particularly love the one on TVs, which was really helpful. And on accessing the TV and the sky facilities, et cetera, really, really brilliant help there. On the subject of traveling through airports, I really, as a completely blind person, I couldn't understand how anybody could travel through an airport without the assistance. It's superb. You go into your airport, certainly in Dublin and Shannon, there are designated assistance desks. You go there, if there's nobody there, just a simple phone, you pick it up and somebody answers, they will come down. They will bring you up to the check-in. If they've got a bag, they'll do the bag for you. So they will check you in. They will then bring you through passport control, through the very difficult security, they'll do all that for you. They'll bring you up to the departure lounge, the flight that you're departing from, bring you up to the staff who are in charge of that particular flight. One of the staff will then bring you and put you first, might I add, onto the aeroplane. Aeroplane lands, everybody leaves, then somebody on assistance, which is automatically set up because you're on their system. Somebody will meet you, come on the aeroplane, get you off the aeroplane, get you in the arrival. Airport that you're flying to will get you through passport control, will bring your bag off a carousel if you've brought a bag, and will bring you out to the arrivals gate, where that's the end of their responsibility. Hopefully, if somebody is meeting you on the other side, that's where they meet you. Or if you're making your own way, if your site will allow that, you can do that too. So, honestly, it is absolutely a faultless service. They couldn't, they're terribly appropriate. They know perfectly well how to guide you. Bags, they're completely clued in. They couldn't be friendlier, couldn't be, I have never had, in fact, the opposite. I won't say I've never had a bad moment. What I will say is, every experience has been really positive. So anybody who might be anxious or a little bit, oh, that couldn't be for me. I wouldn't be able to do that. I would encourage you to give it a go because really, it is very emancipating. Liberating would be the words that I would use. And it just means that people in our situations with visual impairments can do what other people do. And in fact, in my experience, sighted people look and go, gosh, that looks really easy. Yeah, why can't I have access to that kind of assistance? So listen, it's wonderful. So the best of luck to anybody who's hoping to travel through an airport. Emancipating and liberating. Those are some words to describe it. Joe Wood, I guess he's fantastic. Great detailed voicing out there from Powrick. Thank you so much for it. Fantastic to hear that people are having such a really positive experience with airport assistance because I know this can be an area that, you know, it's important, but it's also been touch and go at some points in the past, isn't it? That's exactly it. It has been a slightly touch and go years ago. And that was years ago, I think, David. Now, look, I agree with Powrick. Powrick, thanks very much for that brilliant voice note. Well delivered. And I hope you brought your wife to duty free there as well. And maybe brought her to the Charlie Tilbury counter and a few of those while you're at it, Powrick. And they're not in short of tucking you into bed, I think, at this stage. But no, no, look, back, all seriousness, though. It's a brilliant service. And Powrick described it very well. It works. If you go to the Dublin airport, for example, it's just in the door on your right. So you walk up with 50 steps and there it is on your right, the desk. And you can sit down in the waiting area and they bring it to your gate that you have to get your airplane. And then look, I won't go over all again because Powrick described it very well. And it's a brilliant service. And they're very well linked up with the PRM assist. Very well linked up with that. And you can book your assistance through when you're booking your flight. And that will automatically slide over the PRM assist. And it just all works very seamlessly. I think it's a great service. They've also been trained really well. They know how to guide. Last time I used it is probably a little bit over a year ago, I went to Salew. And there was a small little airport in Rios beside Salew. And it just worked out great. We were out of the airport in no time. There wasn't much waiting around. They helped you get your suitcase and all that kind of stuff. But they also have two kids. Kids are sighted, obviously. But there's no problem with sighted people tagging along with you, as long as they're family as well. So it makes the whole experience for your whole family work seamlessly. Super stuff. Powrick, thank you very much for the detailed message in on that. We did have some other correspondence on the PRM assist app as well from Tom. Tom had some thoughts on that as well. We're not going to go through that voice note today just for time. And we also want to look into some of the stuff that Tom shared with us as well, some interesting stuff that we may bring you in the future on that. But for now, to Powrick and Tom, thank you so much for sending those into us. I'm really much appreciated. On a separate topic, then, we also had Dominique sent us in an email regarding her new iPhone 17. This is a follow on to the review that Joyou wrote in the newsletter on the iPhone 17. We'll touch on that review in just a second. But now, here is what Dominique had to say. Keep in mind that her email is being read by AI here because it was sent by email. I've just read your great review on this phone, which I also bought, along with the Apple Watch Series 11. My previous phone was an SE3, and I love everything about this phone, and immediately noticed the amazing sound from the speakers and how good it is. I initially was going to get the iPhone Air until I heard that there was only one mono speaker. And I'm now so glad that I didn't go for it because I would have been very disappointed with it, especially as the 17 has so much better sound, battery life, and is so much more responsive. I was very apprehensive about going for a phone without a home button because all my phones had always had a home button or keypad, but I got the hang of it in a few hours. And I would never go back to a phone with a home button again. There you go, a very Americanized version of Dominique there. But Dominique, thank you so, so much for the email. Much appreciated. Joe, you also similar experiences with the iPhone 17? No, I have an iPhone 17 there since Christmas, and I agree with what I wrote the review, I suppose, that she responded to, and it is a great phone. I have, it's a major upgrade from what I had. It was an iPhone 8, actually. And I know I missed the home button, but at the same time, I am used to using the phone now with the new system, I suppose, of sliding my finger up, probably 33% of the screen and lifting it, and then that's similar to the home button. That's the new gesture. Also, the app switcher as well. People might take a little while to get used to the app switcher, because before, if you had a home button, you pressed the home button twice to get the app switcher. Now you have to slide your finger up just a bit above halfway and lift it, and your app switcher starts up, and you can close your apps or do whatever you want. But look, there is other little suggestions, I suppose, you can do to make some of those things easier. If you're finding the gestures more difficult, or the learning curve might be a little bit much for you to start, we can help out. You can set up a back tap, which you could double tap the back of the phone, and it will either do the home, or it could do the app switcher for you as well. So there's lots of solutions to these kinds of problems. But in general, the phone is excellent. It has, I suppose, twice as long battery life as the iPhone 8 that I had. It also is a lot louder, as Dominic did suggest there, and there is a great speaker on it. The other thing as well is it's an iPhone 17, so it has Apple Intelligence, and anything above the 15 really has Apple Intelligence. And you can use ChatGPT to describe your screen and help you with writing tools and all that kind of great stuff that's gonna come down the line. And well, it's here already, but it's going to get better as we go along. Absolutely. I saw a great tip on AppleVis during the week as someone who had created a Siri shortcut and set it to a voiceover gesture that you could just do a specific voiceover gesture, and it automatically takes a screenshot and describes it for you. I thought that was really cool. So I now have a four-finger flick up on my phone to do a screenshot and describe what it sees straight away to me without the need to open any apps or without the need for even to move the voiceover cursor. It's really, really good. So some fantastic stuff out there, and really creative solutions too. But Dominic, thank you so much for that. Much appreciated. As a reminder, if people do want to get in touch with us, you can do so by sending us a WhatsApp voice note to 086-199-0011, or you can also send us an email, as Dominic did there, to content at vi.ie. That's content at vi.ie. Moving on though, we have a show packed, as I said earlier on, with Braille for you today. And to tell us all about what is going on on the Braille team, I am delighted to be joined by the wonderful Ms. Mairead O'Mahony, who is on that Braille team. So Mairead, how are things first of all, and what's going on with the Braille team? Yep, perfect, David, thank you. Well, there's a few of us in the Braille team, and we do a lot of work. We're constantly kept going, which is a good thing. So what we do is we offer a lot of various training courses in small groups of, which are delivered via Teams. So at the moment we're doing, we're currently doing the uncontracted again, and we have a contracted one coming up at the end of February. So the uncontracted would be for beginners. So anyone who's new to learning Braille or would just like to learn it to be able to, you know, even read like medicine boxes, the numbers on the different floors of lives, things like that, you know. So it's very useful for that. And who knows, if people enjoy it, they might decide to know I'd like to go on further and study more. And if that's the case, they'd be able to read the letters and the alphabet and short paragraphs of texts and things. So if that's the case, then they can advance on to the contracted course, which is in February. And again, for anyone who's not familiar with contracted, it's like a shorthand of text. So rather than spelling everything out, we have a lot of abbreviations. So you wouldn't have to spell everything out in full. So it would be a lot of that. So for example, like TM would mean tomorrow, TD would mean today. So different things like that. So, and it's always, do you know, they're fun courses to do. I think anyone that actually does them enjoys them and feel they get a lot out of them. Like we're also there as well to support anybody who uses any electronic braille displays or, you know, for any support around those. So for example, like if anyone is using the Braille Sense 6 or the Mantis or the Braillians or Focus or any of those kinds of things, we'd always, you know, we're always there to help out in things as well. So yeah, if anyone has any queries, just feel free to reach out to us. And, you know, even if you can't do any of the courses that are on at the time, we'll try and work out a plan that will, you know, work for you, you know, to facilitate everybody. Absolutely, so a busy, busy team on the braille side, but on the braille front, one member of that braille team is Peter Claridge Bowler and Peter is, I suppose, an absolute whiz when it comes to all things digital braille. So we'll be catching up more with Morade in just a bit, but before we do, let's check in with Peter, who told me recently all about the Brailliant BI 40X from Humanware. Peter, you're very welcome back to Talking Technology. Firstly, how are you? I'm doing very well, David. Thank you very much for having me on today. Thank you so much for joining us. So Peter, the Brailliant BI 40X, a bit of a mouthful, but an interesting device. This is a device from Humanware. Do you wanna tell me a little bit about what is the Brailliant BI 40X and what's the Brailliant line in general? So the, well, we'll start off with a little history. The Brailliant line has kind of gone back to the better part of nearly 25, 30 years now, forgive that the dates aren't quite right, but it has been an ever evolving line of Braille displays. Now, what is a Braille display? I can hear you thinking to yourself. Well, it's a type of device that interacts with your screen reader and converts all the synthetic speech that your screen reader would normally produce into refreshable Braille. So that allows for anyone who's a proficient Braille user or who prefers Braille as their medium to be able to read, interact and control or edit text on the computer. It also can be very good for anyone who is deafblind as you can also control the entire device, your computer or your smartphone from one command system. Instead of having to reorientate yourself on a keyboard, you can just do all the keystrokes within the Braille Perkins keyboard. Okay, awesome stuff. So then that brings us up to the BI 40X. What's the story with this specific device? So more precisely, it's the X series that we're kind of looking at as it is more considered as a hybrid type of Braille display. This kind of is the first Braille display that introduces synthetic speech, a built-in screen reader from the moment go, access to online services, partial online services, I will say, such as Bookshare, Bookshare Online, Victor Reader, Daisy Player Online as well. So it offers a limited but substantial amount of access to literacy through Braille. You can also download audio files onto this device as well and play it through the two speakers that are installed. Okay, and I guess what makes this difference because we've had conversations on this podcast before about the difference between Braille displays and Braille note takers. Note takers are that more kind of full featured. So is this still a Braille display? You describe it as a hybrid there. Yeah, so it'd be more classed as a hybrid as it has its own built-in note-taking features and note-taking functions. The only difference it doesn't have, it doesn't have direct access to the internet. So you can't just go through to Google, you can't send an email, you can't download third-party apps onto the device unlike devices like, say, the Braille Note Touch Plus or the Braille Sense 6. Those do have those capabilities. That's what makes them both a little bit more expensive and a bit more versatile with their uses. The name kind of goes, I always kind of describe a display as it is like a second monitor. First, the people who use monitors or people who have got good enough sight to see more than one monitor at a time. This would kind of replace that as it gives you that not just speech feedback from your screen reader, but that Braille feedback as well. Okay, and then I suppose, do you want to give me an idea of the layout of the device? So you mentioned obviously it has Perkins-style keyboard for input in Braille, and it also has that display. I presume it's a 40-cell Braille display, given the name. So the number normally corresponds with the size as well. So we have the smaller version, the Brilliant BI20X, which does exactly the same thing as the 40X, but it is just on a small scale. The layout of the Brilliant is quite intuitive and ergonomic, it's very comfortable. So when you're having it flat and facing the ceiling, kind of looking at you, you have your eight Perkins keys, you have your backspace, you enter your dots one to six, then drop down ever so slightly from that, you'll have your cursor routing buttons, which allows you to navigate through text and move the Braille cursor or the computer cursor to any part of the screen where you wish to edit any text or even interact with an item. So just below the Braille display, you have two space bars. And then below that, in the center of the front panel is a home button for the internal mechanism, so all the internal programs. You press that and it will take you straight to the main menu of the device, so you can switch between devices, or you can open up your note-taking apps and so forth. And to the left and right of that are your navigation keys or the navigation thumb keys, which are quite a human-ware product, as in no other Braille display or Braille note-taker product uses these particular types of thumb keys, which allows a Braille reader to keep their fingers on the display while they're reading and just use their thumb to move on to the next section or move on to the next line. Now, to the left and right of the Braille display are what would be called command keys. Now, these offer similar functions to how you can have certain programs set up to them, but they are in the same shape as a kind of a Perkins cell, or sorry, a Braille cell. So you have dots one, two, three on the left-hand side and dots four, five, six on the right. And pressing any combination of those dots may do a command on any particular software that you're running. So let's say you're running JAWS and you want to access the JAWS menu, you press dots two, four, and five, which is the letter J in Braille, and that will open up the JAWS command menu. Or if you want to press go home on your iPhone, you press the letter H, which is dots one, two, and five on those command keys. But that also can be done through the keyboard as well if you do certain keystrokes and certain keyboard commands. So it's just an efficiency play then, really. That's interesting. Yeah, it is. If you're reading, let's say, a long line of text and you want to edit something very quickly, you don't have to kind of reorientate yourself onto the keyboard. You can just do the quick commands on the command keys and it should do as it's told. So this device is, you know, a lot of the human wear Braille devices run key soft. This is running a more light version of it. Key soft light, I think you called it. Yes, so this kind of rolls back into the hybrid element of it all. Because key soft normally would have your Word editor, your email client, your Google client, your internet clients and all that built into the software. But if you strip that all away, they've just kind of changed the name to, well, we've taken away all the big hardware driven capacities and capabilities. So they've now more or less just kind of given you the basics. You have a Braille editor, you have a file editor, you have a Victor reader, you have partial access to the internet. So essentially they've just stripped it down to its bare essentials, but still allowing for you to have great flexibility. And they've just added a new feature to the device, which they've also, I believe, added to the Monarch series. This is an audio recorder. Yes, yes, they have added it as of recent and I think it will be a great opportunity. Now, unfortunately, I haven't been able to get it to work yet. I have tried, but it could just be me not quite understanding how to run it yet. Fair enough. And how long are these devices typically gonna get updates for? Do you see active improvements with it? Well, because of the hybrid element of it now, we will probably see much more longevity. Now these devices do typically run for any length of time, depending, it's not just update as well, because these machines will probably go, you'll see daily use through them. Now I've known of some Braille displays that have lasted 25 years. Some have lasted only a couple, you know, seven or eight months because of wear and tear or just how they're used. There's so many little things you have to kind of account for when it comes to life expectancy for these devices. But you can, I would say you can probably get a solid 10 years out of this. Super stuff. So tell me then what's good about it, what's not so good about it? I like, the quality of the Braille is very good. The feedback is always very good. It's very responsive. It feels very, almost paper-like, like you're reading a paper book in Braille. That's what it kind of gives the sensation of. The command structure is also very good. Very intuitive, especially with Jaws, which is kind of, I can more or less control my entire computer just from the keyboard on the Brailliant. The biggest issues I have with it is probably, for me, is its portability because it's a little bit on the bigger side. It doesn't quite fit so easily into your bags as some of my smaller displays have done in the past. But I think always the biggest problem with these kinds of devices will always fall back onto the price point. So it's portability. Sure, okay. So I'm going to play devil's advocate here for a second. Humanware are going to say that, you know, these prices, they're expensive to manufacture, which undoubtedly they are. And of course, everybody's tolerance for a price and what something's worth to them is going to be different. So I suppose if we get into the specifics of the prices then, those numbers, so for the BI20X, including VAT, and remember you might be able to get a VAT refund on these because they're assistive technology, depending on where you are. The BI20X with VAT is 2,640 euro 50 cent. So if you then move that up to the BI40X, so this is the 40 cell unit again with VAT, that's 4,317 euro and 30 cent. Don't forget the cent there. So a bit of a jump from the 20X up to the 40X. Peter, what does that tell us about these devices? That kind of shows you that the price of the cells really does reflect on how it's built. So how many cells it has will reflect on its price point. Sure. It's other competitors, the problem is, it's other competitors are all about the same price. Unfortunately, everything's about the same price regardless. The only reason why I would suggest or kind of say, well, I personally prefer these kinds of displays is because there is that longevity put into the design. There is that longevity kind of forethought implemented in how it's constructed and how it's updated. So this is kind of like, it's that Apple argument, isn't it? This is an investment more than a kind of one-off purchase kind of thing, isn't it? Yes, so you'll find that most Braille displays, most Braille note takers, it is a big investment because some of these devices will take, one of the Braille note takers for instance, the Braille, the Braille Note Touch Plus is nearly 7,000. That's the down deposit for a car. Now, you know, you have to make sure you're getting your money's worth. So it's a lot of the time when we're arguing about why did, you know, the reason why they say Braille is kind of going the way of the dodo or kind of not being as used as much. Well, there's our biggest problem is its price. You know, we are neglecting a kind of a historical institution of a sense of 200 years of Braille use. We're cutting people out of that discussion because of the lack of funding or lack of affordable technologies. Now we do have companies like Orbit and Orbit Research who do the Orbit displays, but there have been their own problems in the past with some of their kind of mechanical issues. Now, I don't know if that's changed since we've had them on or since we've used them, but those were kind of those biggest concerns. So your overall then view of the Brailliant BI40X, good product. It's a fantastic product. Super, good product. Your only concern really was that price. Yeah, my only big concern is the price because of its flexibility and its ability to switch between devices on the fly. So if I'm on my computer and I get a text on my work phone, I can, without even having to touch my work phone, I can press a command and it'll switch over to my work phone and I'll start being able to read the text I've received and I'll be able to reply to it all within moments without actually having to interact with my phone and then switch back to the computer and pick up exactly where I left off. So it offers that wonderful flexibility of connectivity as they kind of promote in their own promotions for this. They very much heavily promote flexibility and connectivity. Okay, and you seem to like those features. Peter, thank you very much for joining us on Talking Technology as always. I guess it is always worth pointing out the prices with these things. It's subjective, isn't it? You know, everyone has their own view on what's going to be worth it to them. So to some people, those price may absolutely be justified and as Peter said, brilliant product. So Peter, for now, thank you so, so much and really do appreciate you joining us. Thank you very much for having me, David. Always fantastic to catch up with Peter on Talking Technology there on the brilliant BI20 and BI40X braille displays. Really interesting bits of kit. And of course, if you do want to learn more about those, you can pop an email to braille.vi.ie. That's braille.vi.ie. And the team will be more than happy to give you any info that you need. Really interesting bits of kit there. So thank you to Peter for talking to us about those. Right then, moving on, you may have recently heard that the Irish National Braille and Alternative Formats Association, also known as INBAF, have introduced Unified Irish Braille. This is a new braille format, a new braille code even, for users of braille in the Irish language, designed to create a bit more unity between Irish language braille and braille in other languages such as English and French and languages like that. So to learn all about the newly introduced UIB, I caught up with Lina, both from our Vision Ireland library and also from the board of INBAF to learn a little bit more about it. So Lina, you're very welcome back to Talking Technology to discuss all about the new Irish braille code. Do you want to tell me a little bit, first of all, about, I suppose, how did this come about, Lina, and why is there an updated Irish braille code? Yes, so the updated Irish braille code is now the new modern standard for Irish braille. We started working in INBAF on the Irish braille code back in 2014, and it was just finalized there late last year. So we have now the primer, the Irish braille primer, the new Irish braille primer, yeah. And I suppose that work starts back in 2014. What goes into creating a new braille code? Well, it's not actually a new, new code. It's building on the previous code that was around, but it's modernizing it and bringing it more in alignment with the changes that have happened with the English braille code and other braille codes that are used in Europe as well. So we were looking at aligning the Irish braille code with the unified English braille code, the UEB. And the reason behind it is for better bilingual use, so that using most of the UEB contractions, but keeping some very unique Irish features, like specific letter signs and the handling of, say, the chevaux differently. OK. That's really interesting. And then will Irish books that are produced going forward, will they then be using this new format? And how familiar is that going to be to those who've been reading Irish language text through braille up until now? Yeah, the updated Irish braille text from now on, that's what will be used on the systems that we have, whether it's the Duxbury system that we use, the software that we actually use for the conversion process from a print into braille. So that is the language that will be used in Duxbury. So it will be UIB. The changes are not drastic changes. So someone who was reading Irish braille books in the past would be able to follow through with the new primer and the new contractions. So it's just a step forward. It's modernizing the contractions, bringing them up to date, as I mentioned, with the unified English braille for better bilingual use, basically. Was there a role to play for companies like the developers of Duxbury and stuff? Did they have to update their software around this? And has that all now happened? It has. And so it has all happened. INBAF were key. INBAF is the Irish National Braille and Alternative Format Association. So they were key in negotiating with the likes of Duxbury to make sure that they can carry the UIB. UIB has been endorsed now by the Department of Education. And it's been taught in schools about five or six years ago. They started with the UIB as a standard for teaching. But it was only launched late last year. OK. Very good. And why does you mention their modernization? And language is always evolving. And I suppose it's important that the codes we use keep abreast of that, I guess, isn't it? Yes, absolutely. Language is not static. No language is static. There's always new words and new iterations being added to language all the time. So it's the same when it comes to whether it's Braille, English Braille, or Irish Braille, or French Braille. It's being constantly on the move. A static language is a dead language. So it's important to bring up languages to keep them moving and modernizing and moving them with technology, side by side with technology, and also with readers that want better and improved services around Braille. Absolutely. Lina, it would be amiss of me to ask, what is happening with the library on the Braille side right now? Is there anything exciting happening in the Vision Ireland library? Oh, yes. Yes, there's always exciting stuff David happening in the Vision Ireland library. We are now working on a list of books for World Book Day that's going to be launched in March. And we're also working on the One City One Book with Dublin City Council on the book choice for the Dublin City libraries, which will be launched in March as well, the same week in March. That's fantastic. And how can people find out more about the new Braille code and also what's going on in the Vision Ireland library? Where can people learn more? Yeah, we have our website on Vision Ireland site. So there's information on the library pages there. There's also information on Bookshare Ireland. Bookshare Ireland, of course, is the biggest, largest digital library in Ireland and also in Europe when it comes to accessible books and free accessible books. So if anyone wants more information about the Braille code or to get the Braille primer, we'd contact INBAF, that's I-N-B-A-F, INBAF, INBAF.ie. They have a website as well. So if you go onto their website, and you'd be able to download a word version of the code from their site. And how closely, before we wrap up, how closely does Vision Ireland work with the likes of INBAF? Well, we're one of the founding members, ourselves and Child Vision and Arbor Hill Braille Production Unit. The three organizations or three departments are founding members of INBAF. Stuart Lawler now is the chairperson of INBAF. He's the chairperson director of INBAF at the moment. OK, awesome stuff. Lina, thank you so, so much for joining us on Talking Technology. Always great to catch up. And well done on all of the work with the new Irish language Braille code. It really is fantastic to see Braille keeping pace with modern evolutions of Braille in general. So thank you so much. Thank you so much, David, and speak soon. Thanks so much to Lina from the library there. Always brilliant to catch up with Lina on Talking Technology. And we might be hearing more from Lina on the podcast in the future when we will be sharing more about a brand new app from Vision Ireland coming really soon called Vera. We will be telling you more about that on the podcast in due course. But for now, brilliant to get to know more about UIB and excellent to see the Braille code evolving and not staying static there. Really, really good stuff. Now, we heard earlier on in the show from Mairead. Mairead is back to tell us all about some of the other initiatives from the Braille team here in ViLabs and Vision Ireland. And Mairead, I suppose to start off, you guys have a monthly Braille meeting to discuss things around digital Braille, obviously, some of the stuff that we've been talking about today. Do you want to tell me a little bit about that meeting and how it all works, I guess? Yes, so these are, we call them the monthly electronic Braille meeting. So these initially started during COVID when there was a lot of lockdowns and things. And I think it's just a way for any Braille enthusiasts to kind of get together and discuss any issues they'd be having with Braille displays or updates or firmware updates or any new Braille devices they got or any queries. So what it is is everybody kind of helps out each other on these, it's kind of more of a support group for people. We all kind of help out each other. If someone has maybe the latest firmware and their focus is giving some kind of issue, we'd kind of see, can we help out with that? We'd all kind of just link in with each other and help. So it's virtual, it's delivered virtually. And it's the second Wednesday of every month from three until four. So the next one is the 11th of February. From three until four. And if anyone is interested in joining it, you can always just send an email to Braille at vi.ie or you can send an email to the training account, just expressing your interest and maybe you'd like to join us. And I suppose look what we, we'd always talk about new devices that are coming out in Braille as well and things like that. So, like we'll say even recently now, like there was new updates to the Irish Braille code and things. So that would generate a topic of interest. So, it's to discuss anything like that and for everybody to help out each other and just have a peer support of people that kind of go through the same things. Yeah. And go through the same daily situations. And Mairead, from sitting in on those groups, is there an excitement about electronic Braille? There is, yes, there is. I mean, there's always, everybody always wants to know what's new and to know what new devices are coming out. And like, again, I suppose for a lot of people, while all these devices are great, cost is a huge barrier for a lot of people as well. So, unfortunately, I suppose when a lot of new devices come out, there is also, you have to keep in mind, a lot of people who don't get to try them out, who don't get the opportunity to try them out because cost is such a huge barrier as well. Yeah, yeah. It's been a recurring theme. I know Peter mentioned that earlier with the BI40X and BI20X Braille displays or the hybrids. It's a recurring thing with Braille and I think we have this conversation every time we do a Braille podcast, but it still remains an issue, doesn't it? It does, yeah, it really does. Alrighty, well, listen, Mairead, I guess, how can people find out then? Maybe they're using Braille, electronic Braille, or they just want to learn more about it. How can they find out about those monthly Braille meetings? How can they sign up? And also for those courses, where can they go to learn about those? Yeah, okay, so we'll go with the courses first. So if anyone is interested in doing any of the courses, so the uncontracted or the contracted, and remembering we can always offer one-to-one support with Braille devices as well. So if anyone has a specific device, just feel free to send, especially for the Braille queries for the courses, send an email to training at vi.ie. And one of the members of the Braille team will be in touch with you then about the training course and have a chat to you about the training course and just ensure it's the right course for you and that it meets the requirements. Then if you have any Braille queries or would just like to get involved in the monthly electronic Braille group, send an email to braille at vi.ie. And one of us will be in touch with you about it then and just have a chat with you and just ensure that it's for you as well. And if anyone requires some Braille support, we can put a training plan in place to help you get the most out of your device, if you're using a new device. Excellent stuff. Mairead, thank you so, so much. I really do appreciate it. Braille at vi.ie for all things Braille. Or if you're looking for training, training at vi.ie as always. And you can find out more about all of our courses indeed on the upcoming events section of the Vision Ireland website. But for now, Mairead, thank you so much. And we'll cross now to Daniel for Talking Technology News. This is Talking Technology News. So which are your latest Talking Technology News? I'm Daniel Dunne. Visual Interpreting Company, Aira, have announced that a new partnership with Meta to build a direct integration between the Meta glasses and the Aira service. Aira, who allow users to connect to a trained visual interpreter to assist with tasks or navigation already, have some support for Meta glasses built using WhatsApp. But this new partnership will provide users with a much more seamless experience. In a statement announcing the partnership, Aira said, we are excited to be partnering with Meta to build a direct integration for Meta smart glasses using their new wearable device access toolkit. This upcoming integration is designed to support a more seamless explorer experience with features like GPS continuity, photo capture, and more comprehensive in-call support. This integration will be available for both iOS and Android. And we are working hard to ensure it functions as expected before rolling it out to the full explorer community. Internal testing is underway with a closed beta test to follow. It's not known when the new Meta glasses support will roll out for users, but improvements to existing services can only be a good thing. Do you use Aira? Let us know your visual interpreting stories with a WhatsApp voice note. The NextBus Dublin app has been rebranded and is now called NextBus Dublin and Ireland. The reason for the rebrand is the addition of the bus air routes to the app, making it relevant for commuters outside of the capital for the first time. The app is relatively accessible with vice-over and has a number of advantages for visually impaired users compared to the official TFI live app. Dark mode support may make life easier for those with low vision. And if the app has access to your location, it can quickly find nearby stops without the need for you to enter a stop number. This is particularly useful if you are unable to see that stop number. The biggest downside of the app is that it does contain banner ads, but these ads are not quite as invasive as some of the other tools such as Move It. The app is maintained by Stephen McBride and has been popular in Dublin for a number of years now, but this 2.0 update now allows the app to be used outside of Dublin for the first time. For those in Dublin who have used the app previously, how do you find the new layout? And for those who may be using the app for the first time, do you find it better or worse compared with the TFI live? Do send us your thoughts. Options are always good, and even if none of the apps are perfect, it is good to have some competition. While Nextbus Dublin and Ireland may have banner ads, another service that will soon be getting ads is OpenAI's ChatGBT. Users of the free and go tiers of ChatGBT will soon be getting advertising, with the move set to begin soon in the United States. Users will get relevant ads underneath their questions to ChatGBT, and if the user allows it, then ChatGBT's memories about the user and past conversations will allow it to get more precisely targeted advertising. The move is a major shift for OpenAI as just two years ago, the company's CEO, Sam Altman, described ads as uniquely unsettling, also describing them as a last resort, according to the Irish Times. Both the free ChatGBT tier as well as the new cheaper ChatGBT go tier are available in Ireland, so it will be interesting to see if the ads make their way across the pond sooner or later. Is advertising going too far? Let us know your thoughts with a vice note. And that's it for now. A reminder that you can check out a wide variety of upcoming courses from Vision Ireland Labs by visiting the upcoming events section of the Vision Ireland website. But for now, it's back to you, David. Manny, thanks, Daniel. Yeah, really interesting stuff. There are ads kind of everywhere at this point. Joe, it's you I know have, I think you've ranted on this podcast, justifiably so, about ads in the past. They can create some issues for people, can't they? David, yeah, I mean, you try using YouTube without paying for it to 17 euros a month or whatever, the prices at the moment. Like, I mean, it will probably drive you a little bit mad to the point that they nearly push you to pay for it. That's probably the point, I suppose. But it's someone on low income, maybe someone who doesn't work or whatever. It can be the difference between, I suppose, maybe a meal and not. They want you to pay an extra tenner a month to go on ad-free chat GPT. I suppose it is the way of the world, but the last thing we want is another subscription, you know? I think there is many different tiers of payment, as you explained to me yesterday, David, on chat GPT. And the top one is a massive, you can share your points before I fall down. So basically, people who are on the free tier will obviously have advertising. People who are on the go tier, so that's a new one, so that's 10 euros a month, they will also have advertising. So you're getting advertising and you're paying for it. And then you start to lose the ads once you go up to the next tier, which is chat GPT+. That one is 23 euros a month, 22.99 to be specific. And then there is chat GPT Pro, which costs a wild over 200 euros a month. This is nearly 300 euros a month, in fact. So like, it's crazy, to put it bluntly. But look, we had this conversation with the brilliant device earlier. Price subjective, isn't it? Yeah, that's a fact, I mean, those people that are paying 300 a month, they're missing out on some awesome ads. I know, look, they might come back someday. But yeah, look, it is terrible. It's a tactic, bit manipulative, but that's what works for them and makes the money and makes the world go around, unfortunately. So we're stuck with it. It's like every other platform we use now. I think there's even some of those platforms we use, like I think Prime, Amazon Prime has a cheaper version that has some ads, and when you pay the tier one, it has no ads, this kind of crack. And that's for even watching a paid subscription on a TV service. So that's the way things are going. We thought like by paying for a service that you'd get rid of all the ads, but no, you have to pay every month. That's not necessarily true, Joe. Like many of us subscribe to Sky TV, and we have for years, and every channel has advertising, even though you're paying a hefty monthly fee. So paying for subscriptions and getting advertising. Well, you can pay extra for the Sky and get the ad skipping. That is true, that is true, to be fair. And it's like, but at the same time, that's only with the on-demand stuff. But you're never gonna remove it as far as I know from the live TV. No, you're not, not from the live, no. Like it is, but it is, I think, no matter what way you look at it, it is kind of double-dipping, isn't it? It is double-dipping, yeah. It's like getting double-taxed on something, you know. But we won't go into that. We won't spiral this down in that rabbit hole. But yeah, it is double-dipping. Yeah, absolutely, but there you go. Ads on that, but look, an interesting one. An app then that, you know, it has banner ads, but they're not too invasive, to be honest. I haven't found them to be so. This is the new NextBus. Well, it's always been NextBus Dublin. Now, NextBus Dublin and Ireland. This app gives you access to all your bus times and stuff like that. First time I've been able to use it in Cork, because obviously we use bus errand down here. But notably not available in your neck of the woods, Joe. No, well, I know there is some bus errand buses down in Kilkenny, but generally the most popular one down around here is JJ Cavanaugh's. And that doesn't seem to pop up. I've tested it today, seen as they expanded their service nationwide. That particular app you're speaking of, NextBus Dublin and Ireland. I did test out the app all the same. It did say one of the nearest buses to me on the Dublin bus route was Sandymount. Then I was able to get the headings and go down and I was able to show me other services, the private service that supports Dublin bus. And then I was able to go to the next heading and it brought me down to bus errand. So I was able to go down and check all the times at Waterford Dublin route to go to the airport. So it is quite a good, useful, easy to get around app. I'm hoping the ads in this app are not going to stop me getting to the next section. Like I've noticed some free apps before ads again. They are a bit painful. There's no way of paying to get past it or anything. But as you said, they're not as invasive as some other apps and it is quite useful. I wouldn't mind paying for it, to be honest. But yeah, go ahead. There is a pro version for two euro. Is there? Oh. Well, I've found it on Android. Oh, are we second-class citizens on the iPhone? I didn't see one, no, interesting. I didn't see it, no, I just downloaded for free. Maybe it'll pop up the more I use it. It might say there's in app purchases or something like that. But as I said, it's not that useful to me down here at the moment. When I did live in Dublin, I used the older version of this app and it was. I did find it good in fairness because it tells you the next bus, basically, is right beside you. So you stand beside this bus stop and it recognizes it through GPS and that pops your uncle, it tells you the time, the next bus. Yeah, there you go. Interestingly, there is no NextBus Dublin and Ireland on Android. It's still NextBus Dublin. NextBus Dublin Pro. Oh, wow, okay, that's interesting. Yeah, it's just NextBus Dublin and Ireland on iPhone and there are no in-app purchases. So that is very interesting. We might have to get onto this McBride lad, see if he can give us a few ad-free versions on the iPhone. That will be handy. But there you go, an interesting one for sure. Daniel, Jo, Mireille, thank you very much for going through the news with us there. Before we do move on, Mireille, I know we've talked on this podcast before about the Metaglasses. Are you excited to see apps like Aira and kind of third-party apps getting support for the Metaglasses? How do you find the idea generally? Yeah, definitely, I think so. Because I think even when you're connected to somebody as well, the connection will be more stable and you're not kind of worrying, will they see my video? Won't they see the video? It'll kind of just all be in sync because sometimes you end up having to call them back on WhatsApp again or whatever with the video because it doesn't transfer over sometimes. So I think it will make just the user experience more stable for everyone. Do you use Aira much or have you used it in the past? I've just used the five-minute one on it a few times, all right. And I do find it much handier than using it on the phone because I'm not trying to hold the phone steady and that kind of thing. So yeah, you'd call Aira through the WhatsApp and yeah, but it would be nice to have it all just synced in to it and it's more stable. For sure, for sure. Maria, thank you very much for that and thank you to everybody who worked on the podcast today. That is about our show. A reminder that if you would like to get in touch with us, you can do so by sending an email to content at vi.ie or a WhatsApp voice note, 086-199-0011. Your views, good, bad and indifferent. We'd love to hear them, so please do send those in to us. And a reminder as well, Daniel touched on it in the news there, that there is also a whole variety of courses available for us here in VI Labs and indeed on our Vision Academy platform. You can learn a whole lot more about all of that on the Vision Ireland website. Go to the upcoming events section there to learn about some of our courses that we do in group sessions. Or if you want to check out Vision Academy, just sign in to your MyVI account. You can do that on the website too. But for now though, that's our show. Thank you so, so much for listening and we will be back in two weeks time for another episode of Talking Technology with VI Labs. See you then. Thanks for listening to the Talking Technology podcast with VI Labs. If you'd like to support our show, please visit vi.ie slash donate. Talking Technology is proudly sponsored by IA Labs, the market leader in digital accessibility services. 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