Audio Description research in Ireland, and Be My Eyes in the workplace - Talking Technology episode 106

On this episode of Talking Technology, we catch up with Lucia Pintado Gutierrez to learn about her ADESI research looking at audio description in Ireland. 

We explore the newly announced Be My Eyes Workplace in Tech News, and speculate on what new fancy toys we might be getting at next weeks Apple event.

Joe investigates why David made the RTE News, and shares details of a new public Consultation being conducted by the Irish government into the cost of disability.

Handy links

Cost of disability survey: www.Gov.ie/COD 

Read the Audio Description research: https://adesireland.com

Join the conversation with a WhatsApp voice note. The number you need is +353 86 199 0011

0:18 intro

2:18 contact details

3:41 tactile images and the World Unseen exhibition

12:29 Lucia Pintado Gutierrez on her Audio Description research

33:30 Talking Technology News

50:57 Outro

Transcript

0:00

This Vision Ireland podcast contains chapter markers. If you want to skip the intro or a topic you don't like, you can use chapter markers to do so. Chapter markers are only supported in some podcast apps. Enjoy the show. Welcome to Talking Technology with VI Labs. At VI Labs, we believe technology is the single greatest enabler for people with sight loss and all disabilities. If you're looking for the latest news and conversation on tech from a more accessible perspective, you've come to the right place. You sure have, as you always do. Hello everybody and welcome to Talking Technology episode 106. It's Talking Technology Tuesday and we have another episode packed with content just for you, you lucky duck. Hope you're keeping well and hope you've been enjoying the show recently. We've had loads of great topics on the show recently, whether you've been listening to our coverage of the IAAP event from last time, we've had content on Braille, we've had loads of content recently and we keep on going with it. In fact, today we are going right back to the world of audio description. You'll remember that we spoke on one of the recent podcasts about audio description for the Six Nations and how that partnership was returning there with Guinness and Virgin Media to bring audio description and indeed live Irish sign language commentary to the Six Nations. We'll be chatting more about audio description in just a bit with Lucia Penteado Gutierrez, who is an audio description researcher. She has done some really cool research into the state of play, I guess, with audio description in Ireland. We will be chatting to her about her ADC research in just a little bit, so do stick around for that. We hope you enjoy that as well. We have loads to discuss, so let's dive right in. But before we do, a reminder that if you would like to join the conversation, there are loads of ways that you can get in touch with us and here are just a few of them. If you want to join the conversation, we'd love to have you as part of the show. People send us in all sorts of voice notes on their thoughts on technology, maybe something they spotted in the news, a product that they've got, a new toy in the house that you're experimenting with and you think is cool and you'd like to share. We'd love to hear from it. We'd love to hear all about it, in fact. You can send us a voice note on WhatsApp if you'd like to 086-199-0011. That's 086-199-0011. Or if you would like to send us an email, you can do that too, to content at vi.ie, to content at vi.ie. If you have something that you love or maybe you got a new piece of tech that you don't love so much, we'd love to hear all your thoughts 086-199-0011 on WhatsApp or send us an email to content at vi.ie. Now, to catch up on all the goings on from recent weeks, I am joined from Kilkenny by the one, the only Mr. Joe Lannigan. Joe, how are you? Hi, David. That's all good down here. Thank you. Good, good. The weather's behaving, Joe. I know we check in on the weather every podcast. Yeah, we check in. We're Irish. We have to check in on the weather. The weather's not behaving, never behaving. It's a little bit of wind and a threat of rain all the time. If you're in Ireland, bring your umbrella. Absolutely. Good advice. I've been keeping busy and keeping an eye on technology as usual. I have no new products at the moment, but I hear, David, you've been busy as well. You went to the World On Scene exhibition and you were spotted on the Irish 6.1 News. I was on the news, Joe. I made the news. Yeah, it was a great experience. We, myself and our head of technology, Sean Doran, we got to go to this. It was a World On Scene exhibition that was taking place in Dublin a little while ago. And we'll talk about this more in a future episode of the podcast. But basically it was organised by Canon, they're the kind of camera and printing company. And basically it was kind of normal photos, but they were raised and they were tactile. So you could feel them if you were blind or visually impaired. So the way it worked is you had a canvas to the left, let's say, with your different tactile images and so on. And then there was a description of those images in Braille to the right. The Braille, by the way, it felt fantastic, Joe. It was superb Braille, actually. And there was also audio description, headsets available and stuff like that, a really accessible exhibition. They had Navi lens codes everywhere. It was really, really cool. Yeah. So David, well, so for example, you've seen an example of a photograph or a tactile photograph. So could you recognise the photograph without being prompted what it was? Not really. So I suppose you couldn't like independently tell without the context of what it is. Like I mentioned this example on the news, there was a photograph there and it was kind of like an eruption and there was smoke and so on and so forth. That smoke, it felt to me like if I was guessing as to what it was, I would have guessed it was a cloud, you know? So like there were little things where obviously you couldn't really tell. But as soon as you were given the context, you were very easily able to discover, OK, what's what. And there was some really cool I was thinking, you know, after about like what are the use cases for it, I guess. And I can see obvious uses in things like education, but also I think it's a fantastic way to demonstrate scale of something. So like imagine something like, you know, a baby's handprint or footprint or whatever. You know, a lot of parents keep those and you could have like that raised so you could actually feel it and feel the different scale as time goes on. And there was also kind of ultrasound one. So from a sentimental point of view, I actually see great benefits in it, both practical and sentimental. It's not a perfect system. You know, it's not like you feel the image and your mind's blown, but you get the idea. So it's like 3D printing in a way, but you could imagine it might be useful for graphs, diagrams, maybe even maps, even some sort of tactile map to give you. Say if you had a picture of a centre part, maybe it might be able to give you the diagram of the area or your way to a log cabin or something like that. Yeah. So the way they do it, as I understand it, is it is actually quite similar to 3D printing. So what they do is they they do an initial coat of ink and then they just continuously layer ink, you know, layer by layer by layer on top until they get obviously the final image. You know, it still appears visually, but you also get the different kind of raised elements and the texture and stuff like that. And there was a really interesting one that they had as part of a separate exhibition, because world unseen, like part of the world unseen is also things that are, you know, even if you have full sight, that you're not easily able to see. And they had taken this theme around like underwater stuff and things like that, and you could feel different corals. And they had, you know, a dead coral and a living coral. And you could feel the difference between them even from the texture point of view, which was really cool. So you do still need the context, but it's a really interesting tactile experience, I guess, you know. Yeah, there is some, I suppose, amazing ideas that could come from it. Like you need to fill your printer with plenty of ink. Is it ever going to be, I suppose, universal or is it going to be something the colleges use or what would you think? It's a conversation we'll definitely have with the guys from Canon and the printing company and stuff like that, hopefully on a future episode of the podcast. Like I did ask multiple times about the just the cost of printing something like this, because I think it would be lovely to say, oh, you know, you could print this family photo or you could print this as a gift for someone or whatever. And they didn't give me a solid cost as to what it did, you know, cost to print something like that. But the like the actual printer that was being used, I do know that that cost in the region of tens of thousands of euros. So not certainly accessible for home use, but maybe for commercial printing companies, possibly. So hard to say, you know. Sounds very interesting. Yeah, so keep an eye on the future as regards tactile maps. And I know this stuff has been touted for a long time, but it's good to see it come close to fruition. Yeah, it's you know, I know that a lot of places have done experiments with kind of tactile graphics and stuff like that. And we've had the folks from Humanware on the podcast before talking about the Monarch, their multi-line braille device and how that can work with tactile graphics. What was great about these is like they were very pronounced, you know, and they felt great. So, yes, you still need like a guide of what's what, but I do think I see the benefits of it, you know. It's that mental image that we get. Absolutely. Yeah, and mental image. And once you have a mental image in your head, you can kind of you can feel the aspects of it to validate that. Or I think it will be especially impactful if there was an image that, let's say, you had seen before when you were sighted and you later lost your vision. Then I think it would be really cool to actually be able to not obviously re-experience the same thing, but be able to have some resemblance of that picture that may have had a lot of sentimental value or whatever to you in the past. So I see really interesting potential for the idea, you know. Yeah, very good. So, yeah, we've been busy beavers on that and the section that was done for RTU News, it's very short, it's very brief. But if you are interested and you haven't seen it, it's on the RTU website, you can find that there. But onto this podcast, rather than sending it to other people's content, onto this podcast then, we have loads of stuff here as well. Audio description is always a popular topic and how we improve the provision of audio description. Not just on television, but also in things like, you know, theatres, around sport, museums to touch on the World on Scene exhibition there. You know, that had audio description too. And there's a whole wide variety of audio described experiences. You can actually go on an audio described audio tour of Cork now with Cork City Council. That's a thing that exists that I haven't done yet. I don't know if it's good, but it sounds really cool. So there's all sorts of experiences. But how fragmented is the audio description sector? What needs to change and how can we make it more sustainable and increase provision in the future? Lucia Penteago Gutierrez is a researcher at DCU and she has been working in their languages and translation courses and so on. And I caught up with Lucia as she released her ADC research all about audio description in Ireland. Here is what Lucia had to say. So Lucia, very welcome to Talking Technology. So you've been doing some really interesting research around audio description and I suppose the audio description landscape in Ireland in recent years. You've been working on this for a bit now. Do you want to tell me firstly, how did the ADC research come about? Good morning, David. And thank you so much for having me in your podcast today. So this project started around an informal conversation with Kevin Kelly back in 2021-2022. I had been already collaborating with him in bringing audio description in one of my modules. And then we discussing bits and pieces, we came to the idea that there was so much to be done. So ADC started as such in 2023. It is a unique project in that it carries what I call a national mapping approach which connects higher education, the entertainment industry and end users. And it tries to identify systemic gaps in Ireland within the accessibility infrastructure. So I was trying to see what the relationship was among the three stakeholders. So within education, I looked at how the description is or isn't really being taught in higher education. And to find out if the next generation of professionals, whether in media studies but also beyond, is being trained in accessibility. And then I had a particular interest in the entertainment industry. So I wanted to map the current provision of audio description and also audio descriptive commentary across broadcasting, media, theatre, museums and sports, just to try to get an overall sense of what is happening at the moment. But most importantly, through the report, I wanted to engage with the blind and the visually impaired community. They are five to six percent of the Irish population, so it's quite significant. So through the report, I wanted to understand their lived experiences, but also the barriers they face in accessing cultural media. So you mentioned there, I suppose we think of audio description a lot of the time as just television, but it's so much broader than that. You mentioned museums there, theatre, you know, audio descriptive commentary and sport. I find that really interesting because I suppose we like we know, I suppose, in some ways that it's available. But it's still there's so many people who are blind or visually impaired that don't know that these different services exist and that they might be able to assist them, I suppose. Absolutely. So what this research finds out is that the landscaping of audio description in Ireland is progressing, but it remains deeply fragmented. And it's interesting that you'd say or that you think that people know what is being offered, perhaps more in media. So but the visibility gap was within the report meant or showed striking findings. So 83 percent of users are currently unaware of any promotion of audio description services. And what this means is that even when the technology or the provision of audio describers and other description are available, the communication about these within the community is failing. So basically, even when services are provided, many end users don't know about it. So that is why I wanted to look at, you know, beyond media. Media is so important, but there is other aspects, other areas, other sectors within the industry of entertainment. Yeah, it's interesting. It's purely anecdotal. But I went to a theatre show recently which had audio description and then separately I went to another show that had Irish sign language. And it was very obvious to me between the two that the Irish sign language was being used way more than the audio description. And statistically speaking, there are probably less people in Ireland who would benefit from the Irish sign language than would benefit from the audio description. But it was still more widely used. And I think that that, you know, that 83 percent, that really is huge, isn't it? It is huge. I mean, Irish sign language or ISL as I go with has made amazing progress. And kudos to, you know, broadcasters and other colleagues doing research and taking action on this. But it is true that it's a pity that audio description seems to lag behind a little bit. That is not to say that ISL shouldn't be promoted, but audio description seems to be lagging behind. If you think of broadcasting, if you think of media, there is a good success story. So, you know, national broadcasters say like RTE, they are not only meeting the targets, but they are exceeding the quotas in recent years, which is fantastic. But then, as you mentioned, there are other areas, other sectors across media, culture, arts and even sports that represent very different realities and they have very, very different provision. So when we look at, say, the industry then, you know, so that kind of entertainment industry as a whole, how do they view it? Like, are they, you know, what issues are they saying are the barriers there? We've touched on promotion of it, I guess. But what are the barriers that they're facing in the actual provision of that audio description service? I think, you know, all this goes back to currently, we could say, like a social infrastructure that struggles with different areas. On the one hand, I think there is a fragile system. So the current provision of audio description at the moment often relies on a few committed individuals or volunteers rather than professionalized or a sustainable workforce. So it depends on the tradition of every different sector, but also the human resources and the financial resources that each of the sectors account with, but also the knowledge of what the description is. This is a real story. Again, anecdotal, but when going to a theater to inquire whether they provided audio description or not, they did say that they provided with subtitles. So there is a need to bring in this culture of what is audio description and what are the needs to make things more accessible for the blind and visually impaired. I found that as well, even with cinemas. If you ask in a cinema, do you guys have audio description or whatever, sometimes they just won't know what you're talking about. So it's definitely an issue. You mentioned again that 83% of those who could benefit from it, but even those who could be those on the front line who will be supporting someone in that area, they're not aware of it either. So there needs to be a lot more awareness, it would seem. Absolutely. And I mean, there are so many barriers, but some of the barriers, David, are so easy to overcome. One would be within a theater, within a museum, having people know what audio description is. Those people who are at customer service, it is as easy as starting to understand what accessibility needs are people asking for, and what is audio description, what is Irish Sign Language, subtitles, short titles, and all of those different types of accessibility. I mean, then each of the sectors have their own difficulties. In some of them, the difficulty is actually having audio describers or having audio describers that are available to travel to other places which are not based in Dublin. Because one thing is the cinema, you know, TV programs and so on. A very different one is a play in, you know, West Ireland, which requires audio describers to travel as well as doing their job. And that involves, you know, financial aspects as well as human resources. You're obviously working in the educational field. How common, and I think, you know, you mentioned there that as part of the work that you do, audio description is a component within that and, you know, it gets discussed within that education setting. Is that rare? It's quite rare. It is more rare than I actually thought. So my background is in translation and interpreting back in the day. Translation and interpreting is actually a field that looks at audiovisual translation and media accessibility in many countries within Europe and beyond as well. So it is quite striking or it's quite interesting to see that this is not the case in Ireland. So when I tried to see the presence of media accessibility and audio description being approached or brought into the curriculum by different colleagues, you know, the findings were that audio description remains sidelined. So only 9% of the lecturers who took the survey claim to provide audio description related content. And again, often this is driven by personal interest rather than institutional strategy. Now this might change, but it was striking to find out that there was barely any audio description or media accessibility being taught, whether it was in translation studies, but also in journalism, communications and media. And that's important. Like it's, you know, often we have the conversation about just wanting people to know about these things, wanting people to understand. And you would think that, let's say, you know, in areas like journalism or marketing or communications or whatever, that there will be an understanding of what audio description is or an understanding of what I suppose accessibility is more generally. But colleges in some respects, they are the frontline for getting that information out there in some ways. Is that a fair comment? I think it would be a fair comment here, David, even though I do believe that a collaboration between, you know, academia and other stakeholders, as has been the case through ADESI, it is so, so important because we have to take into account practicalities, what's being done at the moment, what needs to be done, and so on. In a way, if you thought about that, currently there is no national certification framework or a formal register for audio describers in Ireland. And it makes me think there is a certain mistrust regarding potential collaboration and who should provide the training in terms of, you know, quality, the consistency of the service and so on. Absolutely, that collaboration, I guess, really important. So, Lucia, tell me a little bit then about the findings of the report. We've heard some of those numbers there, but give me an idea of what the overarching kind of recommendations are here. So I suppose the key findings are, you know, there is a certain, or to an extent, a broadcasting success. Commissioner Morrie-Namon and the Broadcasting Authority in Ireland earlier did and are doing a great job in looking at these quotas and trying to bring them forward. The adhesive report also puts forward the idea of the niche of collaborating across different sectors and also tell success stories. So it makes me think of this kind of like qualitative leap within sports. So in the last year and a half, perhaps two, we've seen a significant shift in live sport with major bodies such as the GA, the IRFU beginning to bring in audio description commentary into the matchday experience, for instance. Visibility, then, it's something key. You know, the community for the blind or the visually impaired people, they need to know what is going on. They need to know what initiatives are taking place and perhaps they should have a stronger voice on what services is it that they need. And, you know, the lack of of the description and accessibility or media accessibility within higher education, whether it's part of the curriculum or part of the research, is something that should definitely go, you know, increase for further collaboration as well. Sure. Lucia, it's fantastic research, really fascinating stuff. How can people read the report, learn more about the research? Is there a section or a place online that people can go who are interested? There is, yeah, I suppose the easiest way is to google my name, Lucia Pintado at DCU, and within there you'll be able to find a link that leads to the ADESI report. As well, I have a dedicated website for my project, which is www.adesiarland.com. And, you know, you should be able to find everything related to, I suppose, this type of research in this area that you might find useful. Super stuff. Lucia, thank you so much. We'll include that link for people in our show notes. Really appreciate the work you've done on this. It's a really interesting report. But for now, thank you so much for joining us on the show. Thank you so much for having me, David. Great to catch up with Lucia there for her first time on Talking Technology, and hopefully we'll hear more about audio description research and so on in Ireland in the future. It's great to see all of those, like Arts and Disabilities Ireland, Commission Iman, RTU, the Disability Fan Network there on the sports side, Vision Ireland, of course. Great to see all of them collaborating on how audio description provision and awareness can be increased. Joel, have you ever gone to, obviously we always talk on the podcast about, you know, audio description for media, but have you ever gone to like sports or theatre events or anything like that with audio description? Well, I never went to a theatre event with it, but I did go to a sports event recently, as recently as the weekend actually, I went to an Aston Villa game and I took one of the headsets that they provide at the game. So I was at the game enjoying the atmosphere with my son, with my family really, and then I had the headset on so I could follow the game as well. So to me that's, I know it's the radio commentary from the club itself, but to me it's a form of audio description, you know, so I was able to follow along as well as enjoy the atmosphere, so I found that brilliant. Near the end, the trouble is with these devices when you have them turned up very loud because of the noise of the crowd and stuff, you do have to have them loud, the battery does get a little bit drained before the last 15 minutes when it's getting to crunch time. And the battery, I kind of turn it down really low for a few minutes and then save the battery and pull it back up again, but that's the glitches of life when you're using portable devices there. I'd say it's rechargeable, it was so small, I'd say they had to recharge it, I don't imagine it's the battery you put in, I'm not sure how it works, but I had to give back the device at the end, so I didn't get to examine it properly, but it just had one control, which was the volume. So you twist the cog until you hear it click and it's off, and you twist it the other direction, like a radio, and it goes to full volume, so that was very simple to use and it only connected to one frequency, so really you couldn't go wrong with it really, you know. Yeah, you're secretly hoping in the back of your mind that you're like, please don't go into extra time, the battery will not last. Please don't die, please don't die, we're at the last two minutes. Yeah, that's mental. I've gone to audio described theatre and stuff before, I think it's fantastic, there does need to be more of it. It's very disappointing, I suppose, when you get to a point where, and Lucia touched on this, that it's oftentimes not a professional career for people and it's people just kind of doing it, whether it's voluntary or whatever. And the downside of that is, you know, it's available for some shows, it's not available for others, or it's available for some matches and it's not available for others, where it just needs to be a lot more prevalent, but in time we'll get there. It's inconsistent, they call it, yeah, it's inconsistent really. As you said, I went to another match in Croke Park in the summer, yeah, the commentary was really good for one game, and it was, I suppose, different for another, so it can change the atmosphere a little bit, and I found in one case that the commentary from RTE Radio was better, but as you said, it's different people doing it, they're only getting used to it, they need some feedback and some information from us to make the product better, you know. Yeah, yeah, well that's where collaboration comes down. I love how diplomatic you are there saying different, but it wasn't as good, I think, as what you're saying, Joe. Well, yeah, you see, I don't think sometimes the person who's doing the commentary actually gets the whole audio description piece, you know. We want extra information, really, rather than just the same information everybody else is getting, you know. Yeah. So I think that's, maybe you need to read the full brief better, or maybe sit in the working group, on the working group or something like that, and then get some of the feedback and direct it straight at them, and you know, it will work better in time, but the main thing is, it started, it's there, and if it wasn't there, it can't get better, but the fact that it is there, it can get better. Absolutely. You can find the full report from the ADC Research on ADCIreland.com. We'll have that linked in the show notes as well. If you're listening on any of the podcast apps or if you're on YouTube, it will be in the podcast description. But now though, it's time to cross to Daniel for Talking Technology News. This is Talking Technology News. So with your latest Talking Technology News, I'm Daniel Dunne. Be My Eyes has announced a new product called Be My Eyes Workplace. For those who have used Be My Eyes on desktop previously, some of the features may be familiar, but new features have been added to enhance workplace productivity for blind and visually impaired people. A new workplace reader option has been created to help make access to PDFs more accessible. Workplace Connect allows you to quickly get visual assistance from sighted colleagues or external sighted agents. And of course, you have Workplace AI, which brings you lots of the AI features that you would expect to be from Be My Eyes. The Be My Eyes company is really trying to get employers on board by encouraging employees to share the product with their employers in exchange for three months of free access. It's effectively a referral program where you can get free access to the product for your employer for a bit before they need to pay. The product is definitely priced for workplace use with pricing starting at 60 US dollars a month per user with various add-ons such as the outsourced trained agents also available. It's an interesting option and further develops the premium business products available for Be My Eyes customers. Be My Eyes aren't the only company trying to make a splash in the workplace at the moment with Flick, the creators of the Flick Smart Button, launching a new white label solution targeting corporate customers. The Flick Smart Button lets users control devices in their smart home with a single button press. And there are also options such as the Flick Twist, which have a tactile dial for controlling things like lights. The new button has a few different brand names already, including Message Button, which can send messages to someone in your workplace via SMS or email. And Flick have launched a new Cloud Button app that will allow for more complex integrations of the buttons into your workflow. How this technology will be used is difficult to say at this point, but perhaps we will see Flick buttons being used more for requesting assistance in a hotel or sending notifications in our own workplace. The good news is the buttons are tactile and appear to use the same hardware as the Flick options so should be decently accessible. Have you used a Flick button for anything creative? Let us know with a WhatsApp Vice Note. And finally for now, an Apple event is just around the corner and there are some exciting new products expected. The events taking place next week is expected to focus on the Mac, but we could even get lucky and see a new iPhone introduced. All we have to go on for now are rumours, but it's expected Apple may introduce a new cheaper model of the MacBook to try and compete with some of the lower cost Windows and Chromebook laptop options. More premium versions of the MacBook Pro featuring upgraded M5 chips are also possibly on the cards, as well as potential upgrades for the iPad lineup. Rumours also suggest that an iPhone 17e may be on the cards following on from the popular 16e introduced last year. The 17e would likely have a few of the same core features as its regular 17 counterpart with a slightly lower quality screen and downgraded aspects in some areas. It should hopefully have a cheaper price though which would be good to see. It's all speculation for now, but hopefully we will see something new and exciting from Apple next week. What Apple products are you hoping to get an upgrade? Let us know with a WhatsApp Vice Note. And that's it for now. A reminder that if you are looking for more technology news, you can always sign up for the Tech On Tap newsletter on the Vision Ireland website. For now though, it's back to you, David. I love the iPhone, I love the Mac, the iPad and all that, but they're all good, refined products at this point. The HomePod feels dated right now. It really does. And they haven't paid attention to it in a good few years. Yeah, that's true David. It still feels modern in a lot of ways, but then some people would say Siri can let us down a bit. It needs that upgrade that you're talking about. They were talking about connecting with Gemini and stuff like that, so it needs that upgrade. Yeah, it's going to be interesting to see what happens there, but even still, the Lady A devices have been getting upgrades from Amazon for years upon years at this point. We're at the fifth or sixth generations at this point. And we've had one revision of the HomePod since it was introduced outside of the HomePod mini. And look, it's not a bad product, but it's just getting a bit old. Yeah, I think the HomePod still sounds great, and that probably doesn't need much improvement. It's probably the inside of it, and it needs a little upgrade. Sorry Daniel, I cut across you. Oh, you're fine. Yeah. I'd like to see maybe more efforts gone into the software and more connectivity back with the ecosystem. Yeah, you're dead right David. It feels like they've kind of put it on the back burner a bit, and it's just getting security updates and things like that in the background, but no really new features or anything that jumps out and says, hey, I'm here, don't forget about me. You can't even access Apple Books on the HomePod, which is crazy. You know, how many years in are we like, you know, that's been Amazon's bread and butter for so long, and you can't even access Apple Books. Yeah, that's true. It's not great. But the other thing I would like to see some I think the loss of touch ID is a massive thing for a lot of people. I don't think Apple even realized that today, which maybe you could like to do with one of the iPads they included on a side button somewhere I think was the iPad Air. It's a pity they couldn't bring back touch ID in some form because face ID is actually very difficult for some people because a blind person or vision impaired person doesn't always hold the phone the exact same way as a sighted person. A sighted person always has the eyes on the phone and knows exactly where to look. I know that doesn't always make a difference exactly where you look, but we can hold it sometimes sideways or a little bit facing the ceiling rather than our face or whatever is comfortable for our hand, you know what I mean? So I'd love a touch ID option to come back. Yeah, face ID is always a challenge and not just necessarily on iPhone as well. I have to go through the horrible process that is unfair. This is not the worst process to be fair, but I have to go through renewing my travel pass at the minute, and they have a face scan as part of that because you're effectively renewing your public services card. And oh my God, it just will not accept. So I have my left eye is slightly like visually deformed. So it's not able to get a clear like shot of my eye and stuff like that. And it just will not play ball like full stop not happening. So I have to go to one of the card centers now to get it done like properly, but I can't just upload an image, which is such an inconvenience. But look, what can you do, you know? Yeah, that is a bit of a tragic system. But look, saying that touch ID isn't perfect either, because if your hands have any bit of dust on them or maybe a bit of sweat or you've washed your hands recently, any bit of dampness at all will affect the touch ID and it won't come back until you're fully dried up, if you know what I mean, or everything is clear again. But yeah, so they both have their issues. It's just, I find touch ID is a lot better for our community. Absolutely. Yeah, you'd wonder why they couldn't have both, you know? Yeah, some phones, some phones do have both. Yeah, but they're not from Apple though, of course. So yeah, that's one of the things I'd like to see come back. But yeah, one other thing I'd like to mention just after the news is if people see the survey coming up about the cost of disability payment, they should consider filling it in. It's for people with all disabilities, but you can tick whatever boxes you seem appropriate and why disability does cost you more, whether it's the price of assistive technology, the cost of going on holidays and maybe bringing someone else with you or maybe using taxis a lot more than other people or whatever. It's worth filling in. If you see that survey, it's been pushed at the moment. But as you said, David, you have to deal with my gov.ie, it's been pushed by the government and public consultation at the moment. So keep an eye out for that one. Absolutely. Gov.ie slash COD for cost of disability. So check that. Think of the fish. COD. Gov.ie slash COD. We'll put that in the show notes as well for people. That's a good shout out Joe. Absolutely. Well worth being aware of. Must do that myself actually. Right. Oh, other news there that we didn't get to mention an update from Blindshell. It's mainly bug fixes and there are some improvements to Luna. That's their voice assistant. So do check for updates if you haven't done so recently. And yeah, lots of really exciting stuff like that. And Daniel, we also have, as we always try to shout about, some of our technology courses coming up as well. There's some exciting stuff on the radar. Exactly. Thanks, David. Yeah, just first up, I'll highlight our technology support hub, which takes place from 12 to 1 on Friday the 27th, so not too far to go now. Basically, the concept is if you need some help with your technology, you can book a one-to-one virtual session with a dedicated technology trainer. So yeah, so it's not for the full hour. You try and give 15 minute blocks there. So if there's anything you have that you might just like to throw our way, give us a challenge, so to speak. Do get in touch, send us an email, training at vi.ie. That's happening this Friday, the 27th of February from midday to 1pm. And you'll get a slot there with a dedicated IT trainer. So if there's something there that has, you know, proven not difficult. Maybe annoying or whatever. Frustrating. Frustrating, that's the word I was searching for. So do get in touch about that. Other upcoming events that I want to let you know all about. We also on Friday, we have a contracted braille course. So if you're interested in advancing your skills on contracted braille, get in touch with us before Friday. Again, email training at vi.ie. Touch typing commences on the 2nd of March. That runs for six sessions. So do get in touch there to find out the details of that. So introduction to touch typing. Well worth taking out to brush up on your touch typing skills. Then on the 3rd of March, Siri and Google Assistant commands. So get the best out of Siri and Google Assistant with this webinar covering all the commands on the 3rd of March. Then on the 5th of March, we have an overview of smart glasses. So if you would like to hear about the different types of smart glasses that are out there, do link in on the time before the 5th of March. Again, drop an email to training at vi.ie. If you are also interested in braille, but the uncontracted braille that's on the 6th of March and are highly popular scams and fraud webinar that's been held on the 10th of March. So tips to watch out for the latest scams and all that that are doing the rounds. So that's on the 10th of March. Accessibility on a smart TV, 12th of March. And then just after St. Patrick's Day on the 19th, we have booking a hotel. So any of those that click your interest, do drop an email to training at vi.ie. And if you'd like to find out more details on any of those, they are listed on our website vi.ie. Go to the news and events section and under upcoming events, you will see them all there listed. So if you would like to maybe find out a little bit more before dropping us an email, absolutely do it. All the details of each of those are there online. So back to you, David. Thank you very much, Daniel. Do you know that that scams and frauds course, it's great to see. I don't know if you've noticed this in recent weeks. Now, if I get a scam message or something like that, or a suspected scam message on iPhone, at least I get it. It comes up as likely scam, which is really useful. It's not always right and it's not 100% accurate and it's not foolproof, but it is good to see, you know. Yeah, I got one actually, and it was a genuine message. Was it from the bin collection company? Likely scammed. Yeah, yeah. You know, you know. Were they fusing you, Daniel? They're not actually, they're very good value, our local bin company. They haven't touched their prices in the last 12 years. Don't jinx it. Had tipped off to them and hopefully they're not listening in and say, we forgot to raise our prices. Yeah, there you go. But it is good to see. And as you said, Daniel, all of those courses, you can find them on the upcoming events section of the website. And if you do want to sign up for any of them, send an email to training at vi.ie, training at vi.ie. Before we do head for this episode, Joe, you wrote an article for last week's Tech on Tap around the Be My Eyes workplace tool. What are your initial thoughts on it? Yeah, my initial thoughts are it's a good tool to have if you need it. I suppose it'll be interesting to see who actually takes it up and who recommends it to their workplace, because there is lots of situations in the workplace that you can come across, places where you can get stuck. And it's so awkward having to ask a colleague to help you or maybe get assistance to read out a graph or a diagram or click on a box or whatever. So you'd be hoping if you do sign up to this service that it'll get you over the line in a lot of those little, I suppose, areas of friction. Look, I know the pricing might be prohibitive for some, but it's not as bad as I first thought. I thought it would be even dearer because some of those services that go through Be My Eyes, I'm not sure exactly which ones, but whether they're using ChatGPT or Gemini or any of those things, they do cost a lot of money to get on their servers. And run back to their own. So I know you can ring volunteers as well, trusted volunteers, probably similar to other companies. So there's lots of different uses for it. And I think even people who run their own business might find a use for it as well. Because I don't think there is another option, Be My Eyes on desktop, but that probably has its limitations. I wouldn't think you'd be allowed to use that constantly through the day with the workplace. So it probably will come up with messages to say you've reached your limit, if you know what I mean. So yeah, I do think it's a good service. It's out there. And maybe the competition come in when they say it's working and it might level out. So I'm delighted to see it here and hopefully it works out. Well, look, we know Vispero are working on some AI stuff. They've talked about that on the podcast before. Moira, of course, they're doing work in the workplace space as well. So there is a bit of competition. Be My Eyes isn't the only option, but it's good to see a little competition swimming around in that space. But there you go. If you do get to try Be My Eyes Workplace, are you going to be saying it to your employer? Do you think there's a better option? What are your thoughts? We'd love to hear your perspective on that. Send us a voice note 086 199 0011 on WhatsApp or content at vi.ie. If you'd like to get in touch with us by email. But for now, though, that is our show. Thank you so, so much for listening. We hope you've enjoyed it. If you have, be sure to maybe consider leaving us a rating on your podcast app of choice and do share it. If you're in any group chats with visually impaired people or anything like that and you feel they may be interested, share the love around. We'd love to grow the ship. So do keep spreading the word. If you do need support in the meantime, you can contact VI Labs. The help desk is open 9 to 5, Monday to Friday, 1-800-911-110. That's 1-800-911-110. Or you can email labs at vi.ie if you would like to get in touch for some technology support. But for now, that's our show. Thank you so much for listening. We'll be back in two weeks time for another episode of Talkin' Technology, and we'll see you then. If you'd like to support our show, please visit vi.ie slash donate. Talking Technology is proudly sponsored by IA Labs, the market leader in digital accessibility services. IA Labs, digital inclusion, your legal obligation. you