What is the weWALK Smart Cane? - Talking Technology episode 107

On this episode of Talking Technology, we explore the WeWALK smart Cane and ask how technology can be used to enhance the traditional long cane we know and love. 

Jean Marc Feghali Chief Innovation Officer at WeWALK tells us about the WeWALK smart cane too and shares some exclusive news on their ever expanding WeAssist service. 

We dive into all the new products from Apple, discuss the new tech support hub from Vision Ireland, and say hello to Zippay, a new payment service from AIB, Bank of Ireland, and PTSB.

Joe shares info on a new archive of Mícheál Ó Muircheartaigh’s GAA commentary, and in a week where Ring announced a new Irish voice for Ring video doorbells, David shares how he just missed out on the job.

The archive : TheReplay.ie

2:16 Voice Notes

12:54 WeWALK Smart Cane and the WeAssist service

39:29 Elaine discusses the Tech Support Hub and Vision Ireland’s  Tech Clubs.

49:33 Talking Technology News

68:01 Outro

Transcript

0:00

This Vision Ireland podcast contains chapter markers. If you want to skip the intro or a topic you don't like, you can use chapter markers to do so. Chapter markers are only supported in some podcast apps. Enjoy the show. Welcome to Talking Technology with ViLabs. At ViLabs, we believe technology is the single greatest enabler for people with sight loss and all disabilities. If you're looking for the latest news and conversation on tech, from a more accessible perspective, you've come to the right place. You sure have! Hello gang, welcome in to Talking Technology with ViLabs, episode 107. Hope you're keeping well. We're already in March, can you believe it? Three months into the year already. Time flies when you're having fun, as they say. And we've been certainly having fun here in Vision Ireland. We've been changing things up. You may have noticed that our newsletter has moved from Friday, it's back a day now. We're on Thursday, giving you more time to explore what's going on in the world of technology. So we've Talking Technology on Tuesdays, and Tech on Tap on Thursdays. So we're making little changes, but hopefully people are enjoying that, and hopefully it's fitting in a little bit better into your week. But again, for today, well we've a packed show today as well. We'll be chatting later on about ZipA, a new payments service from AIB, Bank of Ireland and PTSB. We'll be chatting about that later on. But our main topic is all about WeWalk. You may have heard of the WeWalk SmartCane before. We'll be learning about the WeWalk SmartCane too. And we will also be sharing some exclusive news. Yes, we've got a podcast exclusive. All about the WeAssist service. So we'll be discussing that with John-Mark Fagali, who is the Chief Innovation Officer at WeWalk, in just a little bit. But if you would like to get in touch with us, we love hearing your comments, your thoughts, all of your views on technology. We really do love to hear from you. So we would love it if you would send us in a WhatsApp voice note or an email. And here is exactly how you can do that. So if you want to join the conversation here on Talking Technology, we would love to hear from you. You can send literally anything at all related to technology. Whether you've got a new toy that you're trying out, maybe you've discovered something new, or you've found something fancy that you like, we'd love to hear from you. The number that you need on WhatsApp, it's 086-199-00-11. That's 086-199-00-11. And if you need the country code for Ireland, we don't say that enough, by the way. We know we have lots of people listening from around the world. If you need the country code for Ireland, it's 353. So the number that you need, 086-199-00-11, if you'd like to get in touch, we would love to hear from you. You can also send us an email to content at vi.ie. So whether you would like to send us an email or a voice note, we'd love to hear from you. Remember, a voice note's not a call. You want to use the voice message button at the bottom right-hand corner of your screen. But 086-199-00-11, that is the number that you need. And to go through voice notes that we have gone in in the week gone by, I'm joined from Kilkenny by Mr. Joe Larnock. Joe, how are you? Hi, David. I'm good, thank you. Excellent stuff. How's your weekend been, Joe? Yeah, weekend quite enough. Look, and I suppose we've got a break from the rain, imagine. I know. And we had, I think it was National Women's Week on Sunday. And now somebody said it's, or not, no, National Women's Day on Sunday, but somebody came back and said it's National Man's Week, all this week. Ah, I can't subscribe to that. I think the women deserve it a bit more than us, Joe. No, no, because someone said it's because it's Cheltenham and then it's Paddy's Day and Monday's Club and all this kind of stuff. So, yeah, that's true, too. I think the women deserve a bit more of a break than we do, but there you go. Yeah, I actually, this weekend, I ended up at the Disrupt Disability Arts Festival. It took place in Dublin. Some really interesting stuff. There was, it was definitely more geared towards people who were deaf or hard of hearing. But I ended up on my first disco, Joe. It was an Irish sign language disco. A very weird experience, but very fun, too, it must be said. Yeah, well, that was a different disco. Relating today to disco, David, but at least it was different. The first one to go to, it was very different. So, yeah, I imagine that was a good experience. Great experience. I actually loved as well. So before the disco, there was a totally separate event. It was a theatre show. It was called Mark of a Woman. It was basically, it was a deaf performance artist and her show was completely through British sign language and visual vernacular and stuff like that. But the show had audio description. And also, interestingly, we had these like vibration straps. They were called Woojer straps, Joe. And they were kind of like these little, the best way I can describe them is if you've ever felt a hockey puck and you place this hockey puck kind of in front of you and it straps around you and then through different kind of scenes in the show. So as the person gets a tattoo or is running in and out of the sea or heartbeats or different things, you had different vibrations throughout the show that was all synced with the sound and stuff like that. The whole thing, I must say, was absolutely superb. The storytelling, the audio description, I couldn't fall to any of it. So, no, I thoroughly enjoyed the arts festival over the weekend. And it's great to see, you know, accessible stuff like that for people with different disabilities. It was a shame there was there wasn't that many visually impaired people there. It definitely skewed more in the range of, say, people who were deaf, people on the autism spectrum and a few other kind of disabilities as well. But it was really good to see an event like that happening in Dublin and happening at scale in Dublin, too, you know? Yeah, sounds interesting. Arts really does make people think outside the box as well. And, you know, Tottenham Hotspur Football Club have murals on the wall of their stadium at the moment with audio description. And you can access that audio description through QR codes. So that's another interesting thing I found out the weekend there. And it just shows you how art can open people's minds to giving and getting information. Absolutely. And you wrote as well about London Fashion Week. There was a great article there in Tech on Tap last week that you had written about London Fashion Week, and they had done some really cool stuff around accessibility as well. Yeah, well, London Fashion Week, I suppose it is one place that I think a lot of visually impaired people feel excluded. And because of that, some people tend to wear the same things all the time. But if our mind is open to it and we get included in audio description, or even if they maybe made more programs that were aimed towards us and gave us some of the information, then we could be included a bit more in the fashion industry as well. So, yeah, it was nice to see that London Fashion Week did include some audio descriptions and some touch facilities as well. And mainly because one particular famous hair designer actually has a father who's blind, and she set up a company that has supported all of this. Very good. Very cool stuff. So Joe, back to voice notes then. We did have a voice note in this week from regular contributor Edvard. And it is Edvard's birthday. We'll wish Edvard a happy birthday in a bit. But he got a great surprise on his birthday because he discovered something pretty cool about Google Gemini. Hi, guys. So I just figured out a little trick that you can do with Gemini. Just like with Zuno, you can actually create songs with it. Somebody actually showed me that yesterday. And we were messing around creating songs for my birthday as it was my birthday yesterday. So we were creating funny songs. But it's actually really cool that you can do that. You don't even have to have Zuno. You can do that with Gemini as well. And I didn't know that. So there you go. Pretty cool. Absolutely pretty cool indeed. Belated happy birthday, Edvard, from all of us here in Vision Ireland. I love how loads of service users just send us in their birthday messages now. I love this. Yeah, well, happy birthday. Maybe that's the real reason you sent it in. Who knows? But anyway, going back to Gemini. Yeah, Gemini is a great tool. And so great that Siri are going to be integrating it into their own smart assistant service. A little bit, somebody might say that's a little bit embarrassing that Apple are relying now on a Google product. But it's also good that they're combining. But yeah, creating music with Gemini and all these kind of things. I actually don't like it. Because authenticity goes out the window a little bit. But it is a cool idea and all that kind of crack. And it's fairly amazing the way AI has got to that level, that it can create music. But I think music, poetry, things like that, sometimes should be left alone. But yeah, it is cool in fairness that it could do the same as that Zuno product. Yeah, I think I would. I've started to agree with you a little bit more and more. I think a lot of like at the start, I thought this is really interesting. And it does absolutely allow people, especially if someone's not able to create music on their own, it does allow them to be creative in some really interesting ways. But I think the problem that you run into a little bit is it goes back to that conversation that we've had before around a lot of AI slop and you can definitely end up with what you'd call AI slop songs. I've definitely heard them in like advertising and stuff like that. And it's disappointing, you know? Yeah, a lot of things on the internet now, introductions to stuff and people making announcements. It's all very samey, you know what I mean? It's all very AI driven and written with AI. And you're like, oh, not another one of these 200 word messages that has been created with AI. You know what I mean? Whereas if it was made by the person themselves, it would be fairly unique and might sound a bit more interesting. Sure. But yeah, I know what you're saying. Yeah, AI slop. I've noticed then as well, sometimes you can ask your smart speaker to play a song by a certain artist and it will be that artist, but their AI voice and sometimes they'd mix it with another artist. And you think Teddy Swims is singing with Beyonce, but it's not really them at all. It's the AI versions of it. So yeah, I don't like it, David, but look, everyone's into their own thing. So I'll leave the matter. But as long as, look, Edvard, you enjoyed playing around with it. It's actually cool to play around with these tools. Yeah, absolutely. And again, happy birthday, Edvard. A reminder to people, if you want to send in voice notes to us, you can do so on WhatsApp. 086-199-0011, the country code there, 353 if you need that. And we would absolutely love to hear from you. You can also send us an email to content at vi.ie for now. Thank you very much, Joe. And Joe will be back later when we're chatting all things, talking technology news. But now, though, it's time to have a really interesting conversation about WeWalk. For those of you who haven't heard of WeWalk before, they make the WeWalk Smart Cane. Now, the WeWalk Smart Cane 2. And this is a regular long cane, a standard long cane that you or I may use. But it has some really cool and interesting smart features built in. And to discuss all that and more, I'm joined on the podcast by John Mark Fagali from WeWalk to tell me all about it. Here is what happened when I caught up with John Mark. So joining me now on talking technology. I am delighted to be joined for what I believe is their first time on the podcast by John Mark Fagali, who is the chief innovation officer at WeWalk. Hi, John Mark. How are you getting on? Thank you very much, David. Our first, but hopefully not our last. I hope so. Hope so. So, John Mark, I suppose to start off as an easier first time on the podcast. For those who haven't heard of WeWalk, even as a company, tell me a little bit about WeWalk, where it all started and where you are now. Yeah, of course. So WeWalk is actually built by a team of people with lived and professional experience of visual impairment. So we came together as a group of people that love our long canes that have dealt with the visual impairment in our lives and realized that we could do so much more with technology. And the way that we wanted to do that is with the WeWalk Smart Cane. We love the wide cane. It's a ubiquitous tool, but it could do a lot more. And that's exactly where WeWalk came about. So we took a standard wide cane, we chopped off its rubber handle, and we replaced that handle with the WeWalk handle, which has all the smart bits inside. So an ultrasonic sensor for upper body obstacle detection and painted smartphone connectivity so that you can control your smartphone and get turn by turn navigation all from your cane without having to take up your phone. Now, this Smart Cane 1 launched in 2019. Of course, we learned a lot, but it validated the user needs for us. People like the product and they told us, hey, you should keep doing this. And here are a few things you should fix and improve. And that's exactly what we did. And we launched our Smart Cane 2 in 2025. It's actually just been over a year since Smart Cane 2 launched. And it's the world's first smart cane to look and feel like a traditional wide cane. So all the benefits of obstacle detection, navigation, and voice control all from your cane, basically, as you're going around. And that's cool. So I suppose then if we touch on the actual concept of a smart cane, we've had companies like Glide and stuff like that on the podcast here before. But this, I suppose the difference is this is, as you say, very much a cane at heart. It's the same as the wide cane that I'm using. It just has the smart bits at the top. Exactly. And you know what's interesting? We almost pitch WeWalk to people. We say, well, we expect you to use WeWalk 80% of the time switched off. And that's a weird thing for a tech developer to say. But that's the whole point. It's technology that you don't have to think about. It's not like you have to actively think, I've now got to pick up my WeWalk and switch it on to get mobility. But rather, it's integrated into that product that you would just never leave the house without. I know I would never leave the house without my cane. So it's just there. And it's just that extra bit of confidence, that extra companion that you can use when you need it. It's designed in an ergonomic way where, number one, you wouldn't be able to distinguish it from a standard cane. But number two, you can still use your standard continuous contact, two-point touch, same technique that you would use when using a long cane, except now it's got some smart bits inside. And it just for people, because I know people get really into this kind of stuff. So it has all the same kind of cane tips and stuff that people will be familiar with. Like all of the non-techy bits are the exact same. Oh yeah, the exact same. So we ship with an Ambitec graphite cane by default. So that cane is already readily attached to your WeWalk smart cane. And it comes in your standard Ambitec sizes as well. And the tip of the cane is just a standard hook-on tip. We provide the cane with a Pathfinder tip as stock. But of course, we're experimenting with other tips as well. The Pathfinder being one of the most premium tips Ambitec make. And we wanted the best tip for the best shaft. But you know, it is very much so a standard cane experience. So let's then talk about, you know, that's kind of smart canes, I suppose, as a whole. It's taking the standard cane and kind of giving it some tech. But for the smart cane too then, what does that tech involve? You mentioned some of the senses there. But what can the actual cane do that my regular, you know, not smart cane can't do? Of course. So to get a little bit techy and geeky, because we like doing that at WeWalk. So WeWalk has a bunch of sensors inside. It's got an ultrasonic sensor, an IMU, an inertial measurement unit, which includes a gyroscope, compass, and accelerometer. A Bluetooth connectivity, microphone, speaker, and a USB-C port. For you to be able to charge up your cane through, you know, any standard power bank or USB-C connection. But all the sensors are pointed so they don't do what the user wants to do. So let's actually talk about what it does for you. The way that we like to describe WeWalk is a pyramid of four stages, with the main feature, the main used feature being sort of at the bottom, the widest block of the pyramid, and the more sort of experimental, sort of more newfangled features, if you like, being all the way at the top, where we're even still discovering how useful and how important they are because of all the new ways in which they're being used. So the bottom of that pyramid is the standard cane mode. So again, WeWalk switched off standard cane. It's giving you the ground level obstacle detection for tactile paving, drop-off detection, and everything you'd use your standard cane for. The level above that then is WeWalk safety mode. So you don't even have to have your smartphone connected for this. WeWalk safety always works because we know it's a safety-critical feature. But that's for your obstacle detection and your flashlights. The cane has a built-in flashlight. Really handy if you're low vision at night to sort of detect things. Or if you have no functional vision, again, just very helpful to let people know that you're there. It kind of lights up the way for others to see you at night. And then the obstacle detection really is a standout feature. And most people actually just get their WeWalks just for the obstacle detection. It's a state-of-the-art TDK sensor with a custom horn that we've designed. So horn is what sort of directs the signal. So it only picks up the things that you want it to pick up. We've custom designed that based on traditional cane technique, so that it's almost like having a cane pointing up. So as you move left and your cane starts to beep or vibrate, you know there's something to your left. As you move it to the center, it doesn't pick up anything. It means you're good to go forward. So the width of that obstacle detection is almost like the perfect width for you to be able to pass an obstacle. OK. Before we just move on from the obstacle detection specifically, how far out can that detect an obstacle? Because I know I've been described, obviously, I have a little bit of usable vision. And when I'm using that, I tend to be quite quick as a cane user. How far out can a WeWalk Smart Cane 2 give me a warning? So we have different ranges. We've got short, mid, and far. Our short range takes your obstacle section just to about where the tip of your cane is. So that's really useful if you're indoors, if you want to detect things like doorways. It's short enough where it won't just be beeping all over the place. Mid is then just a meter past the tip of your cane. So that's useful for quieter streets, if you'd like, or larger indoor spaces like bus or train stations. And then we've got far, which is almost two meters away from you. And that's really helpful if you're a very fast walker or you've got lots of low-hanging branches or you sort of want to be extra careful when you're in an open outdoor space. We found people using it in ways that we weren't anticipating. So because the obstacle detection has beeps or vibrations, depending on to you, that get faster as you get closer to an object, people have been using it to detect the positions of revolving doors, lift doors, and to follow people in a queue rather than having to use the tip of their cane to touch up against their heels, but rather using the vibrations and pulses, which are very discrete, of the Smart Cane to tell as a queue is moving forward. So quite handy. That's cool. That's very cool. Yeah. Yeah. And actually more recently we've even introduced the ability to use the flashlight for obstacle detection. So where if you come close to something, it'll actually light up the way as well, which is quite nice. Oh, that's very cool. Very unique feature. So the next level up, level three, is the smartphone connectivity. Now, I'm sure I'm not the only one that's experienced this, but imagine showing up to your bus stop. You want to know when the next bus is coming. You've taken out your smartphone. You've got voiceover on. It'll probably take you, I guess, call it 30 seconds to open up Google Maps, find the search box, and you've got to type in the stop that you're at or click on it on a visual map on a screen, then scroll down, select transport, and then check out what options are coming. I reckon that would take one and a half minutes to two minutes, you know, on a good day. Yeah. Yeah. And that's assuming it's not raining and that you're sort of still. Sure. That was a problem because by that point, three buses would have passed. With WeWalk, by connecting it to the WeWalk app, which, again, we built from the ground up, which collects data from Google and move it, we've recreated this whole public transport and walking navigation experience in a way that can be totally controlled from your cane. So you can just leave your cane in your pocket, and you can use the buttons at the front of your cane to then quickly open up a menu, either the explore menu or the transport menu or the my places menu. Say you click into transport, you can then see the stop that you're at or sort stops based on distance. And if you're at that stop, that stop will come up. Yeah. You can then click a button to dive into that stop, and you can select between the different transport lines. You can see what approaching buses or trains are coming, or you can navigate to that stop if you're not closest to that stop yet, but you just want to quickly start the navigational journey. And you can do that with restaurants or cafes or universities or anything under the explore section as well. So you can find out nearby places, discover places around you, and quickly navigate there straight from your cane. So what would have taken minutes in the past now essentially takes seconds and you don't have to take out your phone. So say, you know, and I'm particularly conscious of just getting my phone out in London, you're going to see it in your pocket, you're controlling everything from your smart cane, and you're getting that information in a much faster way without occupying two hands as well. And for that exploration feature where you're navigating as such, is that using, say, spoken directions? And you mentioned the cane has a compass and stuff as well. So if I'm traveling along using my smart cane, what am I hearing, feeling all of that during that guided process? Yeah, I'm glad you touched on that compass, because that's again another key part of how we do navigation. So WeWalk's navigation system is spoken. So it will talk to you. It can either talk to you through WeWalk's built-in speakers, or it can send that over Bluetooth to a wired or wireless headset. So anything that's connected to your phone. And WeWalk will give you turn-by-turn directions like any other app, except our ones are a lot more detailed, and they use the compass that's built into your smart cane. So we can give directions like your target is at 12 o'clock, 500 meters, take a three o'clock right turn onto Queen Street, if we're making up street names. So that use of clock directions or cardinal directions, if you really want north or east, or even simple straight, slight left, sharp right, for instance, is only possible because we're using the compass inside WeWalk. So you can put your phone in any orientation, in your backpack, in your coat pocket, but your navigation will remain accurate, because we've calibrated that compass to always be pointing forward. It's in your cane. We kind of know you're moving in that forwardly direction. So we can provide much more customized and granular navigation that can talk to you every 20 seconds or every 20 meters, unlike the traditional mapping apps that will only give you very brief directions like turn left in 50 meters. But what does that really mean? How sharp is that left? What if it's a junction with multiple lefts? Here, you can understand if it's a sharp, slight, and if you're a very seasoned traveler, you can have it not talk to you at all. Or if you're the type of person that loves to hear everything, you can set it to always talk to you. Awesome stuff. And what are the main features of the WeWalk SmartCane? Is there any kind of experimental stuff beyond that point, or even stuff down the road that you're looking at? Obviously, you're not going to want to give away all your secrets, but where can this technology go? Of course. So actually, we've just had something now that's leaving the experimental phase and moving into a mainstay in the product. And that's our voice assistant, and that's that tip of that pyramid, that fourth level. Now, everything that I've described so far is controlled by you either pressing a button, and then WeWalk responding to you. But we haven't discussed actually speaking to your cane, so having a conversation with it, asking it questions, and interrogating it with your voice. And that's what our AI Assistant is for. So powered by Google's Gemini, we've created an AI voice assistant built into your SmartCane, where you can literally take out your cane, hold down the circular button that's built at the front, wait for the beep, and then you can ask WeWalk practically anything. You can ask it, where am I right now? Very useful feature, just simple, where am I? And it'll give you your address. Nearby restaurant, nearby cafe, it'll read out what's nearby. But the real value of this feature is a general knowledge question. So say you're out in a new city, or you want to learn more about a tourist attraction, like Big Ben or something, you can simply ask it, tell me more about Big Ben, or what's around me, or what can I do in this city? You can even ask it about recipes. So say you're out grocery shopping, you don't want to take out your phone, you've got groceries in your hand, but you've got your cane in your hand, because you always have your cane in your hand. You can just hold that button down and ask it, how many grams of beef or salt will I have to use to make this recipe? And again, the cool thing here is that because it's powered by AI, yes, it has some genuinely useful features, but we're still discovering ways in which users have used or asked questions that I guess we just don't anticipate. And we keep hearing this great feedback of someone saying, oh, I used our AI assistants to do this in things that we hadn't expected, which is great. And in terms then, you mentioned one of the things I think is really cool there is that kind of real-time information, where am I? Is that something that has expanded? The way I could imagine myself using that is let's say I'm standing at a bus stop, I quickly ask my cane, when is my bus coming? Are we at that point yet? Or is that an area that can be looked at down the road kind of thing? So the thing is, for questions like that, I would still recommend using our voice menu feature because it is faster. So in the sense that if you click a button, I guess that's us saying that level three is so good that it's an easier way of doing it than level four for really quick information. So say you want to find out the next bus, that is literally just three button presses to get to from your standard cane button menu, which we call the voice menu. So you click onto it, you go transport, nearest bus stop, and your bus stop is there. So that's kind of how we anticipate people using that public transport feature because it's just easier, you don't have to ask it. But hopefully, if you really wanted to also ask your cane questions like that, then you could. And it's getting more and more integrated with the device as we keep progressing it. So for example, you can now ask it questions like, what's my battery level? And it'll also do that. And we're still finding new ways that you can control device features, again, without having to take out your phone. So before we move on to your Wii Assist service, just a few quickfire questions then. You mentioned battery life. What is the battery life? How often am I going to be charging my cane? Yep. So it'll definitely get you, even if you're a superpower user, through a whole day at least, sometimes even two days. So the battery life is good. So we've had conferences where we'd start the morning doing demos from nine all the way till the evening, till about five or six p.m. And we'd have everything switched on, which I guess isn't totally realistic. Unless you're walking nine hours a day, which is, you know, that's good for you. But it can get through the day. So the battery life has been good. And it keeps getting better because we can keep updating through firmer updates. So we can make things even more efficient. And if you're ever in a pickle, it's very quick to charge and can charge from any USB-C cable, phone bank, your laptop, your phone. It's pretty easy. How much is happening on the actual device? This is something I noticed with the first generation WeWalk is it was doing a lot, I suppose, through the phone. And that did introduce a little bit of latency back then. How are things on that front now? Yep. Oh, a lot better. So the obstacle detection and flashlight will always continue to work from your smart cane because they're safety critical. But the navigation and exploration features will continue to require either an iOS or an Android smartphone. And that's just because it keeps everything up to date. Because we draw live information from Google and move it, it basically just makes sure that we've got the most up-to-date maps. But also, unlike the first version, because we have so much control over smart cane too, since we've engineered every single part of the hardware, we can push out those firmer updates that I mentioned earlier through your smartphone. So say we roll out a new feature, like being able to use your flashlights, for obstacle detection, or the brand new, very exciting, different voices and different speech rates, which I know was a highly demanded feature. That's very important. Yeah, that's just a simple software update. So we just pushed it out. Users got a App Store update on their phones. When they open up the WeWalk app after updating it, they then got another message to say, your smart cane firmware needs to also be updated. Takes four or five minutes at most. And then they've got a brand new smart cane experience without having to send in their canes or do anything differently. So that's one of the benefits here of having that software platform, is that the smart cane that people are using today has been improved significantly from the smart cane that they had purchased a year ago. Two last questions then on the smart cane. Will it work when it is raining? Yes, we are now IP 44 rated. So it is good to go in most day-to-day rainy situations in the UK. So I've been using mine outdoors with absolutely no problems. Of course, you cannot go ahead and dunk it. So you shouldn't dunk it in a bath or go swimming with it. But if you treat it like you would treat a regular cane in terms of just going out and about regardless of the weather, you should be good to go. So final question then on the smart cane. Where can people find out more and get pricing information if they're interested? Yeah, that's a great question. So I always direct people to our website. If you want to learn more about the product's features, we always have lots of great content there about how people are using their canes and what's new and exciting. And if you'd like to make a purchase, then do visit the lovely Sight and Sound Technology. So they deal with our smart cane distribution, providing support, and actually getting you a smart cane in Ireland. They're lovely to work with a great group of people as well and knowledgeable on the product. But of course, we're also here as a team if you ever need us. So do reach out to us if you ever want more information. Brilliant stuff. Excellent. Very interesting product. Now, I did want to chat to you last week. You had a really cool summit, your new yearly summit, and you announced the international launch of a service called WeAssist. So what is WeAssist? This is separate from the cane entirely. Indeed it is. So the beauty of WeAssist is you don't need a smart cane to benefit from it. It was a service purely developed by us because we saw a gap in users' needs and we wanted to fill that without making users have to download a separate app. So we heard time again from our smart cane users that, yep, we love the smart cane. We love the WeWalk navigation app. But there are still certain areas where I still need help to get a complete mobility journey. It could be the last mile problem. So finding a specific flat door within a building after your WeWalk has gotten you there. Or it could be at a tube station. Or it could be at the grocery store. So reading a particular label. It could even be doing or helping your kids out with maths homework. There are some great services that exist out there. There truly are. So if we think of other services like Aira and Be My Eyes, they're wonderful services, plenty of space for all of us here. But we realized we've got a great user base that's already in our WeWalk app. Why don't we give them a professionally trained, you know, sighted agent that they could rely on when they need to, to be able to access and complete their journeys or do any of these other tasks that they would want to do? And that's how WeAssist was born, so you don't have to download a new app. You simply take out the WeWalk app, which you've already got installed. You click a button that says connect to an agent and you'll be connected to some of our professionally trained sighted guides. And the nice thing is I use the word professional here and I put a lot of weight on that because they are professionally trained. They've been trained up not just by us, but by the RNIB as well, who helped develop the curriculum for how to speak to a visually impaired person. What are our particular needs? The right questions to ask, so you can always rely on a certain level of support. Super, excellent stuff. And is that going to be a kind of subscription service in a similar way to the likes of an Aira then? It is indeed, but as part of this launch, because it's such a big thing and such an important thing for us, we are providing loads of free minutes for people to enjoy. And you also have a bundle. So if you want to learn more about the different minute pricing, anyone can actually just take out their WeWalk app and they'll have a list of minutes that they can then purchase to supplement their free minutes as well. Brilliant stuff. Now, you did announce at the summit that the WeAssist service is coming to... I believe it's already in the UK and Turkey, but it is coming to Canada, the US and Australia. Notably in the summit, you didn't mention Ireland, but I believe you have a secret to share with me. We do, which is why we were so excited to come onto the show. We will actually be launching WeAssist in Ireland in mid-March. So, of course, we'll be providing exact details and dates. I'm sure that'll come up later post-podcast, but that's something that we're very much looking forward to and we really hope people in Ireland benefit from the service and start making the WeAssist calls. Absolutely, really looking forward to it. So, Jean-Marc, before we let you go, you mentioned it there with the smart cane, but for those who want to learn more about WeAssist, WeWalk, the apps, all of that sort of stuff, how can people find out more and follow the journey, I guess? Yeah, so we love it when people visit our website, but we also have great content on our YouTube channel. We're also quite active on social, so WeWalk.io, on Instagram and Facebook. We do try to get involved in the community. Again, as I mentioned, we are a team with a lived experience of visual impairment, so we're part of that community. We love to engage in discussions. On top of just the usual digital platforms, we're always at in-person events, so we're always traveling from places like Side Village in the UK to Side City in Frankfurt. The team's going to CSUN in March, so we love meeting with people face-to-face as well and talking about how we've used our smart canes, but also how our wonderful partners like yourselves, RNIB, CNIB, and everyone else that we've worked with also use our product. So if you don't speak to us, you can speak to them, and it's just a great experience. Brilliant stuff. John-Mark, thank you so much for telling us about WeWalk. Thank you for joining us on the podcast. I'm sure it won't be the last time. And best of luck with Smart Cane 2 when we assist. Yeah, I appreciate it. And we're looking forward to all our listeners here in Ireland to feed back to us and to let us know how your experience has gone. Again, it means the world to us when people come up to us and say, I've used your technology to achieve X and Y, and that's perfect. So if you can come back to us and let us know, we'd be more than happy to hear your thoughts. Or if you think there's anything for us to improve. With WeAssist, it's such a key and important service for us. Anyone can make a WeAssist call immediately upon launch. So if there's anything constructive, we'd love to hear it. John-Mark, thank you so much. Thank you, David. Thanks for having us on here. Great to catch up with the guys from WeWalk. They're a really interesting product. I must say, I am definitely interested to see where that technology goes. We've had the conversation about Glide and other devices there. And I think it's an inevitability that technology is going to play more and more of a role in mobility. So exciting stuff potentially down the line. Joe, would you ever use a smart cane yourself? Well, yeah, I could see myself using one. I don't know if I'd pay big money for a smart cane myself. But yeah, it does sound interesting, though. And the services that come along with it or beside it do sound fairly good as well. So many tools you see on my smartphone that I use, and I just use a normal cane that I could just throw in the corner. And if I lose it, it's no big deal. But yeah, I suppose I could see myself using it. I'd love to try it out, actually, and just give it a go in real life and see would it suit me. Because I don't think you can see if you'd use anything until you actually try it. You know what I mean? That's it. And I'd love to. Yeah, I'd love to know more. I think it's a product that I don't think you can fairly judge without trying. I think it's a really interesting concept. I'd love to have more of you on it. They sell it really well, to be fair to them. They're really good at selling it. But other companies have done that in the past to mixed results. So I'd love to actually spend a week with it as my actual cane and make a fairer judgment then. But exciting stuff from them. And thank you to the team at WeWalk for joining us. If you've tried a WeWalk cane, if you have thoughts on smart canes in general, we'd love to hear your thoughts on that. 086-199-0011 on WhatsApp or content at vi.ie if you would like to get in touch. Right, though, moving on, we have loads of various supports here in ViaLabs and Vision Ireland. And to catch up on two of them, I caught up with Elaine Power, one of our technology trainers, to discuss our virtual technology clubs and our brand new tech support hub. So here is what happened when I caught up with Elaine. Back now on Talking Technology for her second appearance, I am joined by one of our super duper technology trainers. Miss Elaine Power, how are you? Hi, David. I'm good. Thanks. How are you? Good. Thank you. How have things been in the sunny southeast to the country of late? Not too bad. All is good down here. Yeah, sure. Just recovering from all the bad weather. But looking out the window today, the sun is shining. So it's all good. No fear of us down here. Brilliant. Brilliant stuff. And so you've been on the podcast before, Elaine. We were chatting to you shortly after you got started here. You're now you're over a year in, which is crazy. How have you found it over the last year? Stealing in really well, David. I'm really enjoying it. The year is after flying by. I can't believe how fast it's after going. But I'm really finding my feet now and really enjoying it. So, yeah, it's been great. Excellent stuff. I won't ask you if you've a favorite technology trainer. That will be cruel. But what has been the kind of most common thing you've seen coming through the door? Is there anything that's kind of stood out to you and been exciting? Yeah, I suppose. Yeah, well, the meta glasses over the last while have been really exciting, I suppose. And in the last couple of months, that's been the most prominent thing that people are, you know, really wanting to know about, I suppose, something new and something exciting for people. So that's been great to kind of be there at the start of that and kind of come in on on with that. So it's been nice to be a part of that. And I suppose other than that, like it's everyday things, practical stuff that people want to know about, which is it's great, you know, coming with their phones or, you know, ways of using their phones to maybe read something or help with downloading an app or setting up a phone with accessibility features or things like that. It's those everyday things that make a difference to people that, you know, I really enjoy doing. And there seems to be, you know, lots of that. So that's a lovely part of the job. Fantastic stuff. So Elaine, we want to bring you on to chat a little bit about some of the stuff that we do in labs, namely the tech support hub and our virtual technology club. So we'll start with the tech clubs. We've talked a little bit about them before on the podcast. But for those who don't know, what are the Vision Ireland tech clubs? OK, so I suppose the tech clubs are what I would say a friendly, relaxed environment for people to kind of discuss all things technology. It's where people come together in groups and talk about, you know, their experiences, maybe what technology they're using and share their thoughts with others there. I suppose you can do them virtually. There is online virtual technology clubs. So for people who maybe can't travel or live in rural areas, and they kind of want to find a way of connecting with people. There is that flexibility of joining from home where you come in with the group and you just chat away. The trainer is facilitating the group. And you're talking about things just like, you know, it's not a formal class. We're all learning together. We're learning as much maybe sometimes from the people participating in the group as much as they are from us. So it's a lovely thing. It's really learning together, picking up practical tips. And, you know, as I said, it's a lot of what happens come from real life questions. So people in the group might say something like, oh, you know, I'd like to be able to send a picture to my daughter or I'd like to be able to listen to podcasts. And that kind of leads a conversation of what people are using or how they're using things. And we should share thoughts and ideas. And it's just a really nice way to kind of learn a little bit and connect with people. There's also, you know, you've got some things like emerging technologies, you know, what's happening, what's new. And people like to kind of come in and hear that and kind of get some experience from others that maybe might have used it or come across it. In some cases, there is some in-person ones as well on local levels. So people can maybe come in face to face. Some people might like that aspect of it, too. They can just email in training at vi.ie to check, you know, what's happening in their local areas. And I suppose one important part of the technology clubs is it's a really strong social element to it as well. So, you know, people enjoy meeting others who, you know, understand the challenges and the opportunities that technology brings. So it's a lovely way for people to kind of connect and learn in a kind of informal, friendly environment. And it's just people in the clubs who have loads of experience, they know lots about technology and can share lots. And you've other people who may be at beginner level just coming into the world and learning from the others. So it's great space and it's fun. We have a bit of crack every week or every second week, whenever they're on in your local area, and it's a great way to kind of hear what's happening on the ground with technology and share ideas. So, yeah, in a nutshell, a friendly, relaxed space to learn about your technology. Excellent stuff. And I know that you do some you do the tech club, obviously, in the south east there. And I know you've done some stuff recently. I think you have a member of Ungarda Shia Khana in. You're doing some stuff with other kind of groups as well, which is fantastic. Yeah, no, it's been super. So one of the things we kind of pick up week on week. So mine happens every second week. And we kind of discuss what other people think going on in people's lives. And it has come up from time to time about scams and frauds and maybe getting phone calls or links and text messages and stuff and how to deal with them. And this was something I kind of picked up on. So I reached out to our local crime prevention officer and she came in on our call this Wednesday. And she kind of chatted all about how to protect yourself and tried to take some of the fear around it all and give some tips and tricks to the people in our club about how to kind of protect themselves. And they really found it beneficial. And it's great to kind of have that and have another voice in the choir, so to speak. So that the different people and maybe guest speakers just bring something different and a more another level of expertise, which is really useful and beneficial. And the participants all really enjoyed it this week. So it's something definitely hope to keep doing going forward. Excellent stuff. So if people want to sign up for them, they can check those out and what's in their local area by sending an email to training at vi.ie. And another thing that you can access by sending an email to training at vi.ie is our tech support hub. This is a relatively new, Elaine, and you've been leading this. Do you want to tell me a little bit about the tech support hub? Yeah, so I suppose it's an online one-to-one support service. So you can connect in with the trainer over Microsoft Teams. And it's a kind of a personalized support. So we kind of noticed that people are coming into our tech clubs. They attend our group sessions. They attend the online one-hour sessions that we do in the training, which is fantastic and learning so much from all those things. Sometimes people might need something a little bit more focused or a bit more personalized to them. So maybe putting some time aside in the month or in the week that, you know, all right, I'm going to connect in with Vision Ireland, send an email to training at vi.ie and ask for some one-to-one time. And we can be booked in then for a session where a trainer will call you back, have a quick discussion about what it is, maybe your challenges or your queries, and they'll arrange a time with you to kind of sit in and go through that at your pace. So like, again, it's not a formal class. It's very much a let's sit down together and work through this at your pace type of session. You know, what is your difficulty or what is your query? And let's take our time and go with this at your pace. Maybe they want to learn or practice how to download an app, maybe, or maybe considering purchasing something new and they want some advice. Or maybe, again, they're in one of our online group sessions and they're learning something from that. And maybe they get a bit stuck and they want a little bit of time to practice and run through something with the trainers. So, you know, that's what this tech support hub is about. It's just, you know, connecting in with the trainer, giving that time, setting some space aside to kind of have something a little bit more focused and personalized to you. Kind of ask your questions or help or guide you along with something. So just kind of building your confidence and confidence and working through something with the trainer so that in the future you maybe might be able to do it independently. That's kind of the gist of it. Yeah, brilliant stuff. So, Elaine, before we let you go, I suppose the one kind of thing that comes up time and time again with this sort of stuff, you know, if someone's perhaps a little bit uncomfortable, maybe they haven't joined a group like this before or anything like that, what kind of advice would you give them just to say, you know, that they can do it? Absolutely. I think, first of all, take the first step, email training at vi.e and connect with the trainer. You know, the trainer will call you back, put your mind at ease and have the chat with you and inform you about how it all works before you ever come in on a call. You know, if you feel uncomfortable about teams or connecting in on anything, you know, the trainer will help you with all that and set you up right before your very first session on anything. So it's important, first and foremost, connect with your trainer and have that conversation and discussion. And then I suppose remember that everybody else was in the same situation as you one time or another. You know, everybody had a first time starting and, you know, everyone in our groups is very welcoming and very, you know, very kind and is dying to have new people in and hear from new voices. So, you know, it's something to look forward to, not something to fear, but take the steps, you know, make the, send the email and talk to the trainer and put your mind at rest. And, you know, if it takes a little time to grow your confidence to come into the group, then work on that with your trainer. But that's the way to go for sure. Absolutely. Elaine, thank you so much. Again, if people want to sign up for either the tech support hub or their local technology club, you can send an email to training at vi.ie. Or if you get stuck, you can also call the VI Labs help desk. That's 1-800-911-110. That's 1-800-911-110. Just tell the team there that you're looking to join a tech club or a tech support hub or anything like that. And they'll be more than happy to help. But for now, Elaine, thank you so much. Thank you for having me, David. Great as always to catch up with Elaine on the podcast and great to hear about some of the supports in VI Labs. If you want to sign up for a tech club or anything like that, you can get in touch just send an email to training at vi.ie. But now though, it's time to cross to Daniel Dunn for Talking Technology News. This is Talking Technology News. So with your latest Talking Technology News, I'm Daniel Dunn. Apple announced a number of new products last week included updated MacBooks, iPhones and iPads. The new iPhone 17e has been announced as an upgrade from the 16e released last year. It has a lot of the same Apple intelligence features and functionality from the regular 17 with a few features cut in order to reduce the price. While it's not Apple's top of the line phone, it has all of the basic features and works well for use of Siri and other similar tasks. If you're looking for a phone for an older family member or indeed someone just getting started with iPhones, the new 17e is looking like a really strong option. Apple has also introduced a new MacBook lineup called MacBook Neo. Similar to the iPhone 17e, this is designed to be a new entry level MacBook. And while it doesn't have a fantastic processor or anything particularly fancy, it's just word processing and checking emails that you're doing on the Mac. Then it's looking like a good potential option. There is always a question over the longevity of these devices with slower processors, but that is a question that can only be answered with time. On the pro side, there have been upgrades to the MacBook Air and Pro lineups, including the new faster M5 Pro and M5 Max chips. And there is also an updated iPad Air, which now supports M4. Apple has not significantly raised the prices for these new products, so they are generally being well received. They are absolutely not for everyone and are at the extremes of both entry level and high end devices, but they are welcome upgrades for those who will benefit from them. You can get more details on all of these devices in last week's technology newsletter or on the Vision Ireland website. New payments ZipPay is launching in Ireland today, in a bid to compete with services like Revolut. ZipPay is different to Revolut in many ways, as it does not use its own app. Instead, the service is integrated into the apps of AIB, Bank of Ireland and PTSB. It allows you to send payments to someone using just their phone number, with those payments happening instantly. We don't know much yet about the accessibility of the services, but hopefully the European Accessibility Act means that accessibility will have been baked into the product as it was created. Competition in the banking space is heating up in Ireland at the minute, as fintech company Monzo, who interestingly have a very accessible mobile app, is also launching in the Republic of Ireland quite soon. Have you used the ZipPay service yet? If so, how did you find it? Let us know your thoughts with a WhatsApp by Snow. And now a list of upcoming webinars and courses from Vision Ireland. On the 12th of March, we have Accessibility on a Smart TV. On the 19th of March, we have Booking a Hotel. On the 24th of March, we've got Zoom Training. And then on the 25th of March, we've got Transition to Secondary School Organisational Skills. Then on the 26th of March, we've got Introduction to Entertainment Apps. Then we've got our Technology Support Hub, as mentioned earlier, on the 27th of March. And Online Shopping Tips and Tricks is on the 31st of March. So if you're interested in any of these online webinars and courses, please do drop an email to training at vi.ie. And finally, for now, Ring has announced a new Irish Accent Vice is coming to the Ring video doorbell. The new vice will be able to respond on your behalf when you're away through quick responses triggered through the Ring app. However, the new Irish vice is only available to Ring Home subscribers. The new vice is that of 25-year-old Isabel Knee Kellig. Isabel, who's from Dublin and currently lives in Galway, is a former primary school teacher teaching through Irish, who left full-time teaching to complete a Caltis Garmel Sná Mian Master's Degree in Media. During her studies, she's worked as a musician and in the media, most recently on T.G. Katter's Ros na Rún. So here is how her vice sounds on Ring devices. We can't answer the door right now, but if you'd like to leave a message, you can do it now. Speaking about her new role as the vice of Ring video doorbell, she said, when I found out I'd been chosen, I rang my mum and told her I got it. My brother was with her at the time and his reaction was so funny. He was like, so you're going to be a doorbell? It was gas. She also spoke about why it is important that the Irish language is shared through products like this, adding there's a huge rise in the Irish language at the moment, even in ads and on posters. Lots of things are shown in two languages, so it's very important to have that option as well. Here is how the quick replies sound in Irish. We can't answer the door right now, but if you'd like to leave a message, you can do it now. The new vices are available for users in both Ireland and in the UK. An update may be required to use the new Irish language vices, but you can check for updates through the Ring app. Do you use Irish accents on your devices or screen readers, or do you prefer to use the more traditional screen reader vices from America or Australia? Let us know your thoughts with a WhatsApp voicemail. And that's it for now. A reminder that if you're looking for more technology news, you can now receive our tech on tap newsletter every Thursday. Full details can be found on www.vi.ie. For now though, it's back to you, David. Thank you so much, Daniel. Do you know, Daniel, I must say I love the new Ring video doorbell voice, but I have a story to tell here. So let's just have talking technology story time. Fun fact. I was in the final five to be the voice of the Ring video doorbell for Ireland. I still remember it was not a surprise to me when I heard those lines, because I remember learning off those lines for an audition and stuff like that. It was, yeah. So this was like, I think it was like summertime ish last year. Did the audition for the voice of the Ring video doorbell and it was a video audition. So we did that in a shopping center down here in Cork. They held a few auditions around the place and then going back again about a month later, I'd say it was I got a WhatsApp and they were like, right, we want to have a call with you. And it was basically like a casual kind of job interview. You know, I was asked, you know, why do you want to be a doorbell? And it was really just vetting and stuff like that. And we had a really fun and interesting conversation. But it turns out that I did not, unfortunately, become the voice of the doorbell. I made the final five, but Isabel got the role. And I must say, she does an absolutely fantastic job. She does very good. I think you should have qualified as demands option. You know, the way most of the male and a female option. So, well, yeah, that's the trick there. Ring, if you're listening, you know, I'm still here. But no, congratulations to Isabella. There's a few interesting phrases that you can get with the quick replies. So you have the standard ones, but you also have handy ones like. Hi, it may take a moment to answer. Please wait. So that's fair enough. There's also a shorter kind of version. Hi, we'll be right there. And there is also a version. If you are getting a parcel, please leave the parcel outside. If you'd like to leave a message, you can do it now. So there you go. And in, I suppose, a similar tone to what I was told when I found out I didn't get the gig. There is also an option when you kind of sometimes, you know, sometimes lads, you just need to tell someone to kindly go away. Sorry, we're not interested. Have a great day. There you go. So, yeah, there's some interesting ones, but would you use an Irish accent on your doorbell, Joe? Without a doubt, I would I would have used I would have even used yours, David, but no luck. It didn't make the cost, unfortunately. No, but no, I will. I will use I will actually use that the Irish accent, Isabella's accent. That was very, very nice. It's a bit similar to the Siri Irish voice, but yes, I would use it. Absolutely. Well done again, Isabella. Great stuff. And yeah, who knows? Maybe I will be the voice of a, you know, a different doorbell in the future. Maybe Nest is listening. You know, that bus, Aaron Bus, mind the door. You know, that keeps telling you to stay away, stay out of the way of the door. The boot when it opens up. Yeah, one of those. There you go. So that's it. There's rules for being there. Yes, I'm not. I might not be a doorbell, but who knows? No, you'll be famous. Yes. Yeah, we'll get there. You know, we'll get there, too. There is some other stories that we didn't get to touch on in the talking technology news. Before we touch on that though, Zippe, I did get to try it in the AIB app. It did show up in my app literally about an hour ago and it seems to be decently accessible, which is really good to hear. I don't know what it's like for PTSD or Bank of Ireland customers, but if people have thoughts, do let me know. You can send us a WhatsApp message 086-199-0001. We'd love to hear from that, hear from you on that. But there is some other stuff. Daniel, you said there's some really interesting updates coming to Android. Absolutely, David. Yeah, this kind of popped up in my newsfeed over the weekend. So Google have announced that they're bringing changes to Android. They're going to allow other app stores onto their devices. So for the moment, some people might say, well, there's already a Samsung store. Yeah, but those stores are just for approved manufacturers that use the Android platform. I think one of the bigger stories in recent times was a long legal battle with Epic Games. So they removed Fortnite from Google Play. So that was much disappointment as well as of the younger members out there. But I suppose over the last four or five years, the tide is changing. And I suppose in part, remember, I think we had it on the news there a few months back that the EU are encouraging Apple to allow third party apps as well. So it seems Google is just going to go for it now at the moment. Europe and the UK are going to be the first places where this will happen. I think for our listeners, probably one of the biggest changes you see is if you want to use the Kindle app and things like that, and you want to be able to purchase your books that you'll be able to do it now, you'll be able to buy them directly within the app instead of having to go out to a browser and pay through that to get access. So it probably just streamlines more things for Android users. It probably means the return of Fortnite and things like that. Epic Games will probably return back to the Epic Games for anyone that doesn't know they have their own app store that you download all their games from. So you won't really find them on Play Store. So yes, look, it's going to open it all up. Also, payments for people producing apps and things like that, they're not necessarily going to be all going to Google Play's billing anymore. So it opens it up that providers like Stripe and numerous other ones out there will be able to process payments on the Android platform. So I think it's good development overall. It's going to mean potentially price cuts in some of the apps out there. It also means more availability, more competition. So good all around, I think, for the consumer we'd hope. Yeah, absolutely. I'd say Stripe are delighted. But then we also have in other news as well a service. Joe, you pointed this one out. Thereplay.ie. This is a new archive of material from Mihaly Marhurtig. Yeah, that's correct. I know Mihaly Marhurtig passed away a few years ago. But his archive is still there in RTE and RTE in collaboration with the Alzheimer's and dementia societies have put this together. And the good thing about this for us, it's all audio. So it's all the audio recordings of all the GAA matches that Mihaly Marhurtig has commented on. So if you're a Tipperary fan or Kenny or Offaly, whoever made it to All-Irelands over those years, you can listen back to them. And I know it'll raise up some great memories for people that might have dementia or Alzheimer's. But it's also a great archive for anyone that's really into older audio or anything. It was 2010 and he stopped, he retired. So anything from 2010 backwards. And who knows, this might open up another vault of archives and they might add to it down the line. It's not 100% accessible, but it is fairly good. And it works decently with voiceover on an iPhone. And I also tried it with Jaws. And the combo boxes don't work very well with Jaws, but I got there eventually. But there is a list of popular games that you can go through the headings and click listen and then click play. And it plays the match and it's very good. Excellent stuff. Yeah, it's, you know, we call them a legend on the podcast before. And I think that's a fair word to use. But yeah, you can check all those out on the replay.ie. We'll include that in the show notes as well for people. For those of you who are interested in that, interestingly on RTE, they have done an update to RTE player recently there where now if the app detects that you have voiceover turned on with RTE player, it will automatically ask you if you would like to turn on audio description and stuff like that, which is really cool. That's a good feature, I think. Yeah, some really interesting stuff. So good job them. And yeah, we didn't even get to touch on the Apple stuff, an iPhone 17E, new MacBooks. There's some exciting stuff in there. Yeah, I think the iPhone 17E, I'm glad they brought out a newer version of this, I suppose we could call their entry-level phone, even though it is 700 euros plus. But it doubled the memory, the starting memory, and it also supports MagSafe products, charging products and things like that. So look, it's an improvement to the previous version. And I'm glad they brought it out because it proves that there's a demand out there for that type phone and it also will hopefully keep it going for newer versions in years to come. Absolutely. Daniel, there's been a lot of commentary in the States about the MacBook Neo. This is the new cheaper MacBook and how it could conceivably be used even in school contexts in exchange for like a lot are using things like Chromebooks and stuff like that now. Could you say that being replicated in Ireland or is that a pipe dream? No, I definitely can see it being replicated. For me, Chromebooks, while they do have accessibility features, they're not very refined or polished overall, I would have to say. And if you have the same things built into the MacBook Neo, which is device over and the standard magnification that's across all Apple devices, whether iPads, iPhones or MacBooks, I think that's going to be a huge plus for students that maybe want to be able to use Apple's accessibility features. But up to now, in a laptop form, up to now have been kind of priced out of the market, I guess. So I think this is a major good thing for those potential customers. Absolutely. And Apple will probably win because it's one of these things. If you get them young, you get a long term customer there. So that's going to be very interesting. So David, what's the potential price? Potential price is around 700 quid, Joe. So I've seen a market that is 599 US dollars, Australian dollars. And so it'll be interesting to see, will they keep that 599 team when it comes to euros? Who knows? Interesting stuff. But yeah, it will be interesting to see. But I think definitely good to see Apple getting into the game on the cheaper side of laptops too. But hey, lads, thank you so, so much for going through that. If you want more news, you can sign up for Tech on Tap. Now, every Thursday, you can find full details on the website, vi.ie. And hey, that is about our show. Thank you so, so much for listening. Remember to subscribe to Talking Technology wherever you get your podcasts, if you haven't done so already. And why not leave us a rating on the apps as well? Maybe, hopefully, we'd love a five-star rating. And you can also send us a message to content at vi.ie if you have any feedback. We'd love to hear from you as well. But for now, that is our show. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you in two weeks time for another episode of Talking Technology with ViLabs. See you then. Thanks for listening to the Talking Technology podcast with ViLabs. If you'd like to support our show, please visit vi.ie slash donate. Talking Technology is proudly sponsored by IA Labs, the market leader in digital accessibility services. IA Labs, digital inclusion, your legal obligation.