What’s with all the labels? A chat with Hable about Speechlabels - Talking Technology episode 111

On this episode of Talking Technology, we learn about Speechlabels, a new product from the team behind the Hable One and Hable Easy smartphone controllers.

The team also tell us about Stactiles, their new tactile sticker product.

We explore new laptop chargers and Meta Glasses in Tech News, and can GameStop afford to buy eBay?

All that and more on the latest episode of Talking Technology with V I Labs.

Join the conversation with a WhatsApp voice note now. The number you need is +353 86 199 0011. 

0:00 intro

2:14 Voice Notes

9:51 Hable Speechlables interview

32:39 Talking Technology News

56:12 Outro

Transcript

0:00

This Vision Ireland podcast contains chapter markers. If you want to skip the intro or a topic you don't like, you can use chapter markers to do so. Chapter markers are only supported in some podcast apps. Enjoy the show. Welcome to Talking Technology with VI Labs. At VI Labs, we believe technology is the single greatest enabler for people with sight loss and all disabilities. If you're looking for the latest news and conversation on tech from a more accessible perspective, you've come to the right place. Yes, indeed you have. Hello gang. Hope you're all keeping well. Welcome in to Talking Technology with VI Labs, episode 111. We are finally in May. We have made it past the May bank holiday weekend here in Ireland. Hope you had a good extra day off if you got one. It was really enjoyable here, got to relax, got to do absolutely nothing. And you know what? It was glorious. But anyway, there you go. Welcome in to Talking Technology, episode 111, where we have a packed show coming up for you. We're going to be chatting with the folks from HABLE today. You may remember HABLE were on the show before talking about their HABLE One and HABLE Easy products. Those are kind of like Braille controllers for your smartphone. But today we are talking about something completely different. We'll be talking about speech labels. Those are their little stickers that you can put on things. Well, they have stickers, but they've got them in all sorts of different, I suppose, settings. You can stitch them into clothing with little buttons and everything. We'll be chatting to HABLE about all that later on, as well as their new product, Stactiles, which are tactile stickers. Yes, they're coming after the bump ons. We'll be chatting to HABLE about all that and more later on in the show, so do stick around. But hey, a reminder that, as always, we do love hearing your input on technology, your thoughts, your opinions, your views. And we would love if you would get in touch with us. And hey, there are loads of ways that you can do so. If you would like to join the conversation, then get involved and have a bit of fun. We would love to hear from you. You can send us a voice message on WhatsApp if you'd like. Remember a voice message. It's not a call. You want to use the voice message button. But you can do that. And the number that you need for it is 086-199-00-11. That's 086-199-00-11. And a reminder, we don't say it often enough, but if you are abroad outside of Ireland, the country code for Ireland is 353. So you just put in a plus 353 and you drop the zero. Usually WhatsApp handles that automatically, but just in case it doesn't, you will then be having 86-199-00-11. Or you can do it the good old fashioned way by email. The email address for the show is content at vi.ie. That's content at vi for visionireland.ie. And either way, we would absolutely love to hear from you. And to go through some of the voice notes in from the week gone by, I am joined all the way from Kilkenny by Mr. Joe Lonegan. Joe, how are you? Hi, David. I'm good, thanks. So you had a long weekend, so I kind of quiet one myself. So we're all back into it now. Absolutely. It was gone too soon, Joe. Too soon, yeah. And kids had Friday off as well. So they had a nice long weekend too. And Luke had a couple of soccer tournaments and a hurling tournament. So he was busier than I was. And yeah, but we got over and we're back to work already. I'm sure you were dragged along for the fun though, Joe. Oh, of course, but we enjoyed it because the weather was good and that always helps. And everybody had some a bit of fun and a bit of competition as well. And there was plenty of treats there at the end of it all. That's fantastic. Any ice cream vans or anything, Joe? Well, no ice cream vans, but there was a sandwich stands and crisps and Capri Suns and you name it. Typical sports stuff. You can't have a sports event without a Capri Sun, can you? That's a fact. You can't have it. You just can't. Absolutely not. Anyway, Joe, we do have some voice notes in and they're on topic this week, Joe, because we are talking about all things labelling later in the show. And Amy got in touch with us. We were asking in the newsletter in Tech on Tap last week about how people do different labelling for their different products and so on and so forth. Well, Amy got in touch with us and she had this to say. If I need to label things, what I usually do is initials, for instance, in large rising. For instance, self raising flower like the SRF and self raising flower underish in large rising. I mean, simple but effective, Joe, it's that kind of typical large print. And I know years ago as well, you know, we would use the, you know, the thick, the black ink markers. Like they were really good for that sort of thing, too. Yeah, that's a very good low vision option there. Thanks, Amy, for the voice note as well, by the way. So I suppose it's nice and personal, like she knows what the abbreviations are for. I suppose, look, everyone has a different system. I suppose some people might have a system where they just put certain things like the one item on particular shelves, like maybe your beans and your peas on one shelf, cereals on another and have a bit of organisation that way. But sometimes you do have to label as well. So it's great to have a system. But I'd be more interested in what she's cooking with the self raising flowers, scones or scones or water, the cakes. I was hoping for cookies, yeah, yeah, maybe maybe that maybe that might be self raising. But scones sounds like a good option is making me hungry now. I love that. It was very subtle, Joe. You were telling me, David, that doesn't require self raising, but good man. That was a subtle but effective put down. Good man. I was going to let you shoot yourself in the foot and show how bad you are in the kitchen, but I held you back and saved you. Thanks so much. Yeah, I assure you, I might not be the best chef, but I can hold my own. Fair play, Joe. Oh, good, good. Yeah, look, there are loads of different ways that people do labelling. And, you know, it's good because I was talking to one of our community resource workers here in Cork this morning and even simple things like, you know, it doesn't have to be fancy. It can be something as simple as an elastic band, you know. Yeah, that's true. Exactly. Something really simple that suits the individual that is using the products. Could be two bump ons on something and one bump on another, or it could be maybe a raised letter or something like that, you know. Absolutely, absolutely. Well, we'll be talking to the folks from Hebel in just a second about some of their products, both the speech labels and the stack tiles. Those are their tactile stickers. But Joe, you've tried as well. We talked, I believe, on the podcast about this before, but those Halo stickers, I think they're kind of like bump ons, but they have different shapes and stuff. The Halo tactile stickers. They're excellent as well. They're trolling different ones, I suppose. They're actually trolling ones at the moment for induction hubs, because induction hubs are notorious for just having smooth glass panels, which are almost useless for the likes of me and you that might not be able to see the touch screen. So they're trolling them at the moment, and they sent me out ones to test, and they're reasonably OK. They need some improvement, I suppose, more in the stickiness rather than the feel, if you know what I mean. So you might go to clean it, and after a while the product, the stickiness of the sticker will remove itself, which is not good. You need it to stay on forever. But they have other ones, other solutions then, where they just have flat circles or they have arrows to the right. They might have a play button. So you can stick these on anything you want, really. And they have clothes, washing machine symbols and all this. And so I suppose Hable have similar products now. The trouble with the Halo ones for us over here in the EU is the lack of sellers. You can purchase some off Etsy, and by the time you've paid for Customs of America from the company itself, it might be worth a while. So it's good to have another option now of a similar product and almost the same in some ways. Absolutely. Well, look, thanks for that, Joe, and thank you again to Amy for the voicing up. But let's dive in to the conversation that I had with Luke from Hable. Hable, you'll recognise them. They make the Hable One and the Hable Easy Smartphone Controllers. We've talked about that on the podcast before, and if you're interested, you can go and have a listen back to that. But I caught up with Luke from Hable to learn about some of their newer products, specifically the speech labels, which connect with your phone. They're all smart and they're less smart, but nice and handy alternative, which are StacTOS. Here's what happened when I caught up with Luke joining me now on talking technology. I am delighted to be joined by Luke Janssen, who is a co-founder at Hable. Luke, welcome to the podcast. How are things? Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Things are great. Going great at Hable. Excellent. Brilliant. So I suppose to start off, Luke, we've had Hable on the podcast before. But for those who haven't heard that, do you want to tell us a little bit about what Hable is? Yes. So Hable is a company that started five years ago. It was originally founded by my co-founder, Fréke van Welsenis, who I believe was on this podcast before. And we started with a product called the Hable One, which is a product that helps you to navigate the digital world better, with your smartphone. It's a remote control for your smartphone. And now we are expanding our portfolio with other products that help people with visual impairment to improve their daily lives. Super stuff. And you've recently expanded into different kind of areas. So you've got devices like the Hable Easy and stuff like that as well. That's true. Yeah. So maybe it's good if I give a quick rundown of what we've been doing so far. The first product that we had was the Hable One, which is a wireless keyboard to control your smartphone that's been controlled through Braille. It's a Braille input device for your smartphone. And we expanded this with the Hable Easy, which is a smartphone control without a Braille input, which can also be used by people that are not proficient with Braille. So that was our second product recently, and we're probably going to talk about it a little bit more. We also added Speech Label as a new product category. And even more recently, we've also added Stactiles, which is our new Stactile sticker lineup to our portfolio. OK, so you've been fairly busy. We'll touch on Speech Labels, Stactiles and a number of other products in a bit. But I remember when we had Frank on the podcast, he spoke about wanting Hable to be kind of a low cost assistive technology company. Is that kind of still the aim that that's kind of the market you're going for? Yes. So what we see in the assistive tech and in the world of assistive tech for people with a visual impairment is that there's a lot of innovation, a lot of innovation is aimed at the higher end products, very expensive products that use a lot of complex technologies to solve very complex issues. And these products are not available to everyone. They are only available if there are extensive reimbursement schemes, if you're able to get funding through insurance or through other means. But it's very difficult to sort of offer them at scale directly to consumers that need these products in their daily lives. And we see a huge gap in innovation on the, I would say, more affordable assistive technology. And that's the gap that we want to want to fill. So we want to offer products at a lower price range that we can scale on a more global scale. And by doing that, we can also keep the price as low as possible and make sure that these are products that are affordable to the end user. Awesome stuff. So we've talked a lot on the podcast previously about Hable One and Hable Easy, and people can go back and listen to those if they so desire. But I want to start off by having a chat about your newest or one of your newest products. We'll touch on Stactiles in a minute, but speech labels. So speech labels has, to my knowledge, had a bit of a history outside of the Hable universe before. But I suppose what is speech labels and how did it come to be a Hable product? Yeah, so that's an interesting story. Speech label is primarily an app on your smartphone on either Android or iOS that helps you to label anything with your voice. And it has been developed by somebody who started this as a way to help people use their smartphone to label everything in their lives or in their daily homes. And we know him very well. This is somebody who worked with a lot of different companies to make accessible apps for the smartphone. But he was unable to make it into a product or make it into a product that he could scale to other countries as well. So one year ago, he approached Hable and asked whether we would be able to help him with this. And when we saw the product and when we used it for the first time, we thought this is going to be a big hit because it is very easy to use. It's very straightforward. And we are able to set this up on a more professional level and scale it to other countries as well. So we discussed with him and we thought the best course of action would be for us to completely take over the app, redevelop it a little bit, so improve it a little bit, change some of the designs, some of the ways of working and find new and improve labels for the software. And now we have launched it as a Hable product last year. So let's talk then about the actual product. So in terms of what the person is buying, they're buying these little labels and then they download the app to their phone. When these little labels and you can describe those to us in a second, but when they arrive in the post, then what happens? How does everything work? So it's indeed what you what you described is correct. So you buy a pack of labels and there are different kinds of labels. I'll go over that in a bit. But these are physical labels. So they are stickers or buttons that you can use to to attach to items in in in your surroundings. The on the back, there is a big code QR code and you can use that to download the app. And the app is very accessible and works very well with talkback and voiceover and guides you through it on how to how to get started. And with the app, you can audio label anything and you want the app is free. So you can even try out the app right now. You can download it from the from the app store directly if you want. But we do sell the labels separately. Now, there are four types of labels. There are QR code labels. So these are being used with your camera. So you scan them and then you can add a label to it. And when you scan the code again, then it will play back the label to you. I think a common a common example is, for example, if you put it on on on a box of Tupperware that has some leftover food in it in your in your refrigerator. You can scan it and you can say, oh, this is my my curry lunch from from this and this date. And the next time you scan it, it will read back to you in your own voice. Next to the QR code stickers, we also have NFC stickers, which works through the NFC scanner on your phone. So the benefit of the NFC stickers is that you don't have to use your camera, but you can tap it with your phone. And but the system basically works exactly the same. So it's a different technology, but it is the same system. And the last label we have are buttons we call laundry buttons. And these are physical buttons that you can sew into your clothing or into any textile objects. And they are washing machine proof and you can use them to to label and describe all your clothing, for example, and say, hey, this is my black t shirt or this is my gray sweater. And when you scan the small button, it will talk back to you and explain to you which piece of clothing you're actually holding in your hand. Awesome stuff. So these devices, they're available now. I suppose the obvious question that a lot of the audience of this podcast, I suppose, are going to ask, you know, we talk a lot about things like the meta glasses. Right. And yes, I suppose a lot of people are going to ask, you know, what's the advantage of something like speech labels over something like the meta glasses? Is that a question you guys get a lot? Yeah, that's a question we get a lot. And they're typically for different uses. I think the most important added benefit of speech labels is that you stay in full control. So this is not AI. So you can describe the object, you can describe what you want to tell about something instead of what the AI thinks it is seeing. Right. So a nice example is we know of a couple of our clients that use it, for example, to label their bottles of wine they received as a gift. And they want to label who they received it from. Sure. That's not something the AI can tell by scanning the label of the bottle. Right. So these are these are the things that you stay in full control of labeling. And the same goes with, you know, all the Tupperware in your kitchen and all these type of things. AI doesn't know what it's looking at. It will only tell you it's a Tupperware box, but it doesn't tell you what's inside, when you made it, when it might expire, etc. So that is one of the sort of the having the self control of labeling the things around you is, I think, very important difference compared to object recognition that is available through other means. And another and another very, very big benefit, I think, is the price. If you have the Meta glasses, which is an expensive product, this is something that for 20 euros per pack, on average, you can get started. Awesome stuff. So then to it reminds me actually a lot of, you know, obviously much less expensive, but it reminds me of things like the old RNIB pen friends and stuff like that that used to exist years ago. So a fascinating kind of innovation and bringing that into the modern age with apps and such. So I suppose how then can people find out more about speech labels? How can they purchase them if they want to learn more? Where can they go to find out more? They can find out more on our website, which is www.iamhebel.com. And then there is a big sign that's a speech label and there you will find the different text that you can buy. There are five different options and there's also a lot more information about how it works, how to get started. We also have a lot of information on what are interesting ways to use the system. So, yeah, there's more information on our website. Fantastic. And I also want to chat a little bit about stack tiles. These are your new stickers. Tell me a little bit about how these, I guess, tactile stickers, hence the name stack tiles, how do they work? So these are tactile stickers that are made with a 3D printing technology. It's got UEFI printing, which allows for very high quality raised stickers. And with this, we can make all kinds of different stickers for different applications. We have about 10 different designs now available and these are being used for making interfaces more accessible, for example. But they are also being used to label things with Braille stickers, which is very convenient for a lot of people. So these are just tactile stickers. And when I say just tactile stickers, it's very easy to explain to people that they are tactile stickers, but they are made with a very new and modern technology and they're also being coated. So they are dishwasher safe, they stick for a very long time with a very good adhesive. And so they are very high quality tactile stickers and they can help you to basically label anything in your house just with touch and tactility. How are they different from, say, bump ons or locator dots or those kind of other kind of, you know, sticky things that we as blind and visually impaired people tend to stick to microwaves and all of these various different things? Yes, so they are different in the sense that it's a different design and there's a lot more design freedom. So we have stickers with different textures, we have different shapes, we have different symbolism, we have different icons that are all designed to feel really, really easily. And we also have simple braille stickers, for example, and these are all things you cannot do with bump ons. With bump ons, you can add one or two or three and then it becomes a bit messy. So if you want to label it more correctly, you can use these more, I would say, well-designed stickers that we now offer. Super stuff. And is there a potential down the road for kind of tactile and the speech labels to almost kind of coexist that you could have, you know, a tactile speech label kind of hybrid kind of thing? Is that something you've considered down the road? We've considered it, but I don't think the combination would make sense because we started out by saying that we are looking for affordable solutions and people that just want tactile stickers don't want to pay for the NFC sensors in it or the QR codes that are printed on it and probably the other way around. So it would drive up the price of both different products. And what we see and what we get back from all our users is that they are two completely different products that are used for different things in their lives. So I don't think it makes sense to combine these products. Fair enough. Before we wrap up, then, is there anything worth noting on the product that, I suppose, gave Hable its name, Hable One, Hable Easy? Is there anything new or exciting coming down the track for that that people should be aware of what's happening in the world of Hable One and Hable Easy right now? We just keep up to date with all the new software launches. We're always on top of things. So there are not many new things to mention there, but we are working on some exciting follow-up products regarding smartphone control. But this unfortunately has to wait a little bit longer. Maybe we can tell more about this in a couple of years. You're teasing us. Very good. Listen, thank you so much. For those, just again, who want to learn more about Hable, any of the products, do you want to give us the website and all of the details again there one more time? Yes, it's www.iamhable.com. Iamhable.com. Listen, Luke, thank you so much. Really appreciate your time on the show today and congratulations on the new product launch and thanks for joining us. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Thanks so much to Luke from Hable for that fascinating product. And you know what? Sometimes it really is those simple solutions and maybe adding the smartphone to something that's been around for a while that can make all the difference, Joe, isn't it? Oh, yeah, that's a fact. I know, Luke, they had a product before separate to a smartphone, I think it's called a PenFriend. It's still going and people love it. I have nothing against that product, but personally for myself who likes using a smartphone, it's great to have an app that you can sync with labels, you know, that recognize NFC tags or stickers or QR codes and bar codes. Whatever it may be, speech label from Hable has them, you know what I mean? They have different types. You can buy, as we said, the grocery ones with the bar codes or you can buy the NFC tags or the ones you sit into buttons for the clothes. So you have loads of options and they're all reasonably priced. So it's easier than buying a device that might cost you the ones of 100 pound and then having to buy stickers, which at least you only have to buy the stickers. And cleverly enough, it works with an app. There you go. Yeah. And I suppose everyone's got their phone on them all the time as well. So you're not kind of you're not like, Jesus, where's my PenFriend gone? You know, I've lost my PenFriend. How do you find your PenFriend when it's lost? Like, you know, it's the thing. Then you have to work out just maybe I need an AirTag for my PenFriend. So it gets more complicated as you go along. The AirTag for the PenFriend, you spend ages trying to find the PenFriend, you find the PenFriend with the AirTag and then the PenFriend's battery's dead. Yeah, I know. It gets worse. It sure does. But that's not, look, that's not a criticism of the PenFriend, but just shows that, you know, there's so much there's different ways that you can use this technology. And the PenFriend, I suppose it is going to be a better solution for some. But for those who use a smartphone all the time, this might be a nice alternative. The speech labels might be a nice alternative. It was interesting because, as Luke mentioned, you can get the speech labels and stack tiles through the HABLE website, IamHABLE.com. But you can also get them through the RNIB. And I was looking on the RNIB site and I came across recordable clothes pegs, Joe. I did not even know that was a thing. Well, I don't know. They're actually not clothes pegs. They're shaped like clothes pegs, but they're for pegging onto, we'll say, packages. Maybe they could be seeds or vitamins or something like that. But yeah, you can record into those pegs and the same idea as the recordable caps for tins. So you could record into this thing. You can magnetically stick onto tins of peas or beans and obviously you can record tins, peas, beans, sweet corn, whatever it might be. So that was the idea, the pegs. I don't have one of those pegs myself. But there might be a solution for people that just are not into smart phones or the more technical items, you know what I mean? So they can be a simpler option for some people. But yeah, the stacked, what are they called again? Stacked tiles. Stacked tiles, yeah. They're excellent stickers and an excellent option as well, going back to those. They're not smart or anything, but they come from Abel as well and you can buy a pack in different shapes. You can buy basic shapes, which means squares, circles, triangles, or you could buy one sort of washing machine, which I noticed in one shop I looked in there earlier sold out. Yeah, so people must be doing a lot of washing and that is one of the areas you will need these stickers is to stick them onto those analog washing machines that are not smart. So, but it makes them a little bit smarter, the fact that you can actually use them once you have the stickers on them. So that's probably where they're sold out. And then there's other stacked tiles that have emojis, love hearts and all different shapes, which you have to be careful. If you have a little daughter in the house, you could start rubbing all those stickers on you. Yeah, that's true. Could be an expensive purchase for me. Yeah, so about six, we see them for 16 euros, I think, on their website and then they're a little bit more expensive on R&B. But whatever suits you, you can search those two websites, have a good browse and see what suits yourself. And even Breedon would help you in the in the shop in Vision Ireland to get them through R&B if you really wanted to. Absolutely. Yeah, so loads of options and really interesting products. So thank you to Luke from Hable for going through that with us. Always good to hear what's going on with Hable. They're really trying to be that kind of low cost assistive technology company, which is really interesting to observe. So thanks to them for that. A reminder that if you want to tell us how you're labeling things, if you've got some creative ways of distinguishing between things, I suspect there's people out there who are doing some very interesting techniques for this. So I would love to hear about it. Do send us a message. You can do that on WhatsApp. It's 086-199-0011. Or you can send us a message through email to content at vi.ie. But now, though, it's time to cross over to the one and only Mr. Daniel Dunne for your latest talking technology news. This is talking technology news. So with your latest talking technology news, I'm Daniel Dunne. Most people know the pain of having a laptop charger break, not knowing what replacement to get. Those replacement chargers can be expensive and are often very bulky. These pain points might be an issue of the past, however, as the European Union has introduced new rules to standardize laptop chargers in the same way as phone chargers were standardized a couple of years ago. New laptops are now required to provide USB-C charging. So in theory, one standard cable could be used to charge your laptop, phone and a variety of other electronic devices. Back when the legislation was signed in 2022, the European Commission estimated that 250 million euros could be saved by consumers as a result of the new rules. In addition to laptops, the rules also apply to mobile phones, tablets, digital cameras, headphones, video game consoles and portable speakers. We've also seen many other devices such as power banks adopt the standard in order to keep pace. This really sounds like a good news story, as most people already have USB-C chargers at home by now. And hopefully those big bulky chargers will soon become a thing of the past and be replaced with a new flashy and sleek solution. Do you have any horror stories from trying to get a really unique charger? Please let us know with a WhatsApp Vice Note. In other news this week, it looks like there's job losses are on the way at Meta. The company who are behind services like Facebook, Instagram, WhatsApp and of course the Meta Glasses have announced that they are looking to cut around 8,000 jobs globally in order to allow them to substantially invest in AI developments. Jobs are also expected to be cut at Covalent, an Irish company that provides services to Meta around content moderation and AI annotation. It's not clear exactly how bad things will be, but Silicon Republic and a number of other publications are reporting that job losses could reach 700 workers at Covalent alone. That's before you consider the potential job losses at Meta's own Dublin office. Meta employ around 1,800 people directly in Ireland and the company wants to spend between 115 billion and 135 billion US dollars on AI this year. So that means there is less money to spend on staff. It's sad to see job losses like this. What do you think the downsides are for AI? Let us know. And now we have a list of upcoming training courses from Vision Ireland Labs. So starting in the month of May, we have music streaming apps taking place on the 7th of May. Then on the 12th of May, we have searching the web on your phone. On the 14th of May, we have NVDA navigating Windows, an introduction for visually impaired users. On the 19th of May, we have Smart Kitchen Technology, an introduction for visually impaired users. On the 21st of May, we have Google Gemini. And on the 22nd of May, we have Uncontracted Braille. Smart Living at Home is on the 26th of May and Navigating Websites with NVDA is on the 28th of May. On the 29th of May, we have Contracted Braille and our monthly technology support hub takes place also on the 29th of May. And that concludes our list of courses for May. If you are interested in participating in any of these courses, please do drop an email expressing your interest to training at vi.ie. Also, you can visit our website vi.ie, select news and events and upcoming events to see the full list of courses available and all the details about each one. And finally, for now, the World Health Organization alongside the Irish government have launched a new report on assistive technology in Ireland. The Assistive Technology Capacity Assessment in Ireland report found that, among other things, that severe staffing shortages were resulting in disabled people and older people struggling to access equipment they need. It found there have been significant progress in empowering individuals and strong political will in improving AT access. However, it also found high levels of unmet needs remain and disjointed and inconsistent approaches have led to gaps. Speaking at the launch of the report, Minister Norma Foley said, I think the report points to very positive steps forward, and it also points to things that we need to do better going forward. And that's the entire purpose of having a report like this. So in the first instance, it does acknowledge that there are excellent examples of assistive technology being made available, but they're desperate across different departments. It's there, but it's disjointed. So our focus going forward now will be very much to rein it in. Speaking about the report from Vision Ireland's perspective, Head of Technology Sean Doran added, This report is important because it helps broaden public understanding of what assistive technology really means. It's not just specialist equipment. It's often the difference between dependence and independence, between exclusion and participation. At Vision Ireland, we see every day how powerful the right technology can be. But we also see the barriers created by cost, inconsistent funding and fragmented access. We would love to have a more coordinated national approach. And as technology evolves, we also need to recognise that mainstream tools such as smartphones, AI enabled wearables and built in accessibility features are now a lifeline for many people with disabilities. Future assistive technology policies should reflect that reality and ensure people can access the tools that work best for them. So what sort of challenges have you faced in accessing assistive technology? Please do let us know with a WhatsApp voice note. And that's it for now. If you have any thoughts and any of the stories we covered, why not get in touch with us using a WhatsApp voice note? For now, though, it's back to you, David. Why, thank you very much, Daniel. Do you know that that assistive technology reports really interesting. I was watching the webinar for the launch and it just kind of goes to show that I think people are really aware of the issue. But I think it just takes a push now to actually move things forward. And I think Sean's right in what he's saying that, you know, like and this has been the case for a while. This isn't something that's happened overnight. But mainstream technology, it is assistive technology now. It makes such a difference to people like I will be completely lost, as I'm sure many people will be without something like my phone, because I'm using it obviously as a screen reader. But also for other things like I'm using assistive apps like, you know, the likes of Seeing AI or Aira. And, you know, that makes such a difference for people, I think. No, you're dead right, David. I just come in there. Yeah, I think when people hear the word assistive technology, they're thinking of all sorts of different devices that you might have to purchase that are very expensive. But it's not always the way anymore. You're right. Your actual Samsung phone or your iPhone is assistive technology. You might just have to turn on a few different accessibility options. But there you go. It works a little bit differently to the way everyone else uses their phone, but it does the same thing. There was one person, there was one person at the webinar launch or the launch of that report who spoke about, you know, how much something like an Alexa had been a game changer for them. And if you think about, you know, like we have the course coming up on it as well as that that kind of smart home technology, like the ability to just say, you know, adjust the heating or turn on the lights or, you know, open the blinds or whatever. That's a huge enabler for people, you know? Oh, without a doubt, like, I mean, to be able to sit there and give something a voice command to whether it's turn on an oven, a light or anything or turn the heating on or switch off a device even, you know, for someone that couldn't do that independently before a smart speaker, it's a game changer, just like metal glasses are a game changer for some people, iPhone is a total game changer for some people when it came out. So, no, assistive technology, it's basically a road to independence. Absolutely. Brilliant stuff. And I think what's highlighted there, David, is a very important point to make is, you know, the funding that is available for assistive technology and it's kind of alluded to there in Sean's comments, you know, it's very disjointed across the country. You know, I think we've heard the term thrown around before. It's a postcode lottery and it certainly seems that way. And I think that's where the government can certainly act and, you know, rein it in as Norma Foley says herself. But, you know, those words have to have to translate into action, you know, because, you know, we've heard of so many service users around the country, you know, trying to get access to assistive technology. And, you know, it's unfair that some people in some parts of the countries are getting it and other people in other parts of the country are being denied it. So let's hope that, you know, that report and, you know, often things in this country don't get done. Like we're aware ourselves as a population of problems in the country. But, you know, often it's the case that when an outside organisation comes in to say, Ireland, you're doing this wrong, next thing the government actually sits up and takes notice, which is kind of weird. But hopefully this will be one of those instances where they do actually something and say we need to do something on this. Yeah, you'd be hoping so. So let's let's wait and see what happens. But hopefully we won't be waiting too long either. On other notes, then we also had in the news there, Daniel, I'll come to you on this. That whole thing with job losses at Metta, a really interesting one. It's never good to see job losses like this. And I mean, you know, is this the cost of AI in some ways? Because like Metta are saying that it's not efficiency, but they're saying they want to just invest more in it. So they have less money to spend. Yeah, look, I think there's a whole moral debate to be had around, you know, job losses and technology moving in to take jobs. Now, in certain areas, obviously, technology creates jobs. But this is one of the downsides where technology is going to lead to some job losses. And I think going forward, you know, we've seen maybe in our supermarkets where self-checkouts and all this is, you know, really taking on leaps and bounds over the last few years. Is there is there a greater question about, you know, if you have AI computers doing the work that people used to do? Is there, you know, should it be taxed and paying their PRC and PAYE too? You know, I think it's something that's going to come in the future. You know, would it be a thing that if there was, you know, levies on these companies where, you know, where they're using AI to effectively make people redundant? That, you know, they should have to pay a substantial redundancy or something like that and levies, you know, to cover people who are being pushed out. Sure, because when people need to have jobs, you know, they have to, you know, earn a living and live as well. So, you know, and the profits of these companies are huge. So, you know, I think it's a bit hollow that, oh, we need all this money to invest in AI, like they're so wealthy already. You know, laying off 8000 people like that, I think is absolutely horrendous. Yeah, for sure. That makes sense. You know, you touch on a point there, and I think it's an important point. One of our local supermarkets who I'm not going to name because I don't want to get us or them in trouble. But they have recently introduced a policy where if you're buying something from the deli section, right? You have to use the self-service till unless you are paying with cash, which. Yeah. And I was like, because I don't really carry cash now, like I would pay using Apple Pay or something like that. So I went up anyway and I was paying for, I don't know, a breakfast roll or something like that or a sandwich. And next thing I know, I'm told, oh, we can't process that here because you're not paying with cash. So then a staff member had to come around and assist me to use the self-service thing in order to actually be able to use a card to pay. And I was just like, what an absolutely insane world that has been. That makes zero sense at all. You know, I'm all for efficiency and give people the choice. By all means, I've no issue with the self-servicing being there, but at least let me just pay for my lunch with a human. Like, yeah, it's not that much to ask in fairness. Yeah, they can be very annoying machines as well when they go wrong and it can end up causing more hassle than it's worth sometimes using them. So, no, you should always have the choice and you should never be forced down the road of having to use them, especially for someone that needs that maybe bit of human support, you know. But that's going back to the AI part of people losing their jobs. Another issue with that is if you're ever looking for support, does this mean going forward with Facebook or any of the meta companies? We're going to always have to talk to a chat bot or AI. Like, I mean, we'll never get that human empathy that we might need for maybe an assistive technology problem or maybe an issue that we have because of a disability or maybe to report a issue of discrimination or something like that. Like, I mean, a computer doesn't have empathy. They can, as we know, all this chat GPT is very agreeable to people, but we don't want stuff just to agree with us. We want a solution and we might want someone to listen to our problem and maybe fix it going forward or something, you know. So that's another issue apart from people losing their jobs is the whole personalized approach is just not there anymore. Yeah, it's nervous, Joe, really. Yeah, yeah. So that's one of my I suppose looking forward. That's one of my things that I would would see being wrong with the whole situation. Yeah, look, it is disappointing. I definitely but like that's been going on for years. It's so much harder to get in contact with places now. And it does actually, you know, change how you view a company. I think if a company is easy to contact, at least for me, and I can only speak for myself, but I do feel more comfortable spending money with them if they're going to be easy to contact. Definitely. Yeah, if you can get if you think you're going to talk to a human that can maybe help you with your problem or it might be a problem at all. They must maybe it's just selling you a product that you usually get or whatever. Good customer service. You just can't beat that. One hundred percent, one hundred percent. And to wrap up on a positive story, then we have a new standardized charging spec for laptops. USBC coming to the laptops, Daniel. Good news, I think. Yeah, I look at this. It is good news. You know, for four years, they're just, you know, every every brand had its own different style connector. You know, and gosh, I had a few neighbors call them to the ears, you know, of any chance would you have a charger for such a laptop? You know, sorry, I can't charge your Toshiba. Sorry about that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, my HP charger or whatever. You know, and funnily enough, like you ever notice laptop chargers, they'll always break when, you know, the the Levenster project is due to be handed in or the college assignment has to be done. You know, so it's it's yeah, they always seem to break at the worst possible moment. And yeah, so like this, this thing now being able to go on and grab any any charges from any branded laptop and plugging into charge up your your new device. As well as a few laptops out on the market at the moment that are are capable of taking a charge from the USBC adapter. So, you know, that's that's good news as the industry kind of pushed on with kind of in the knowledge that this ruling was coming down the line. You know, so it doesn't just mean that from this this year forward is only laptop, you know, only laptop sold after a certain date will be able to do it. There's actually a proportion of laptops on the market that you may even already own one that's capable of taking a USBC charge. So definitely a step in the right direction. And, you know, I'd love to see, you know, European Union for further further go on this. I'd love to see, you know, where to have the phones. And I think they're coming around and this for all phones now in the next few years have to have user replace with batteries. So, you know, yeah, if your phone battery dies, you will be able to buy your own replacement for yourself. So and I think and actually laptops as well have that issue at the moment. A lot of a lot of the newer laptops have this inbuilt inside battery. Whereas years ago, you had to pull two sliders at the back, click out a battery and get a new one. And I'd love to see the road, you know, to add to that room that all the all the batteries will be the same for a laptop. You know, so, you know, that one standard battery will fit all all different laptops and keep them going. That's a fascinating idea. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And you could expand it to EV cars, too, you know, because hindrance people adopting EV cars or electric vehicles, this was just a battery anxiety and worry. And if you had easily replaceable batteries for cars, I think it would be great. And if they all were kind of forced to use the one style of battery that, you know, would bring down costs as well for the consumers in the long run, hopefully they'll get there. You know, it's just ideas that I think, you know, following on the footsteps of this could be the start of something very good. Plug in the old electric motor with a USB C charger. I think that'll take a bit of time. You never know. We'll get there. Technology is a wonderful thing. Daniel, thank you so much. Joe, thank you so much for that as well. Before we wrap up, there was one story that we didn't cover in tech news. Do you remember eBay, lads? Were you big on eBay back in the day? No, I wouldn't say big on it. It was there if I needed something, I suppose. I very, very rarely used it. I still ended up using Amazon most of the time. Fair enough. Well, eBay is on the cards. It looks like they may be about to be acquired by the company behind GameStop. GameStop used to have a large kind of retail presence on the high street and stuff like that, selling games and stuff like that, as the name suggests. But they have made a proposal, despite being significantly smaller than eBay, they have made a proposal to acquire eBay for 56 billion dollars. And they want to do it as a part cash, part stock deal. So, yeah, a very interesting one. But it's incredible to see all those almost eBay is like one of those older Internet companies now. But, yeah, could they be acquired by one of the big retailers? Who knows? Yeah, it's like every dog has had its day. And I think they might have spotted eBay. It might be the opportunity to take it over. And I know GameStop had its day on the high street at one stage. I think that's gone now as well. So it's one way of getting back in on the online presence and making sure that GameStop's name is still there. Maybe doing other stuff now apart from just games. But yeah, it's kind of an interesting story. But we see all these businesses being taken over all the time. So we see what happens. Time at Charlotte. There you go. Were you ever a GameStop fan? Were you a big gamer, Daniel? No, I was never massive into the games. You know, it's fun to find the time to sit down with an Xbox or PS5 or whatever. It's very hard to find the time on even, you know, like some mobile games on your mobile phone. Ah, nothing, you know, nothing that really interests you there either. So I do appreciate GameStop was a massive presence for a lot of gamers who used to love frequenting the queues and the endless queues for new games when they come out. Yeah, but again, I suppose the high speed internet has killed that. Now, you know, download your games as part of a digital purchase. So it's very interesting that they're writing up the eBay. You know, what is the plan there, what would become of eBay if they get took over by GameStop? It's very interesting to see. Who knows? Time shall tell. Daniel, Joe, thank you so much for that. If you have comments on any of the stories that we discussed, you can do do please send them in to us with a WhatsApp voice note, the number that you need there. It's 086 199 0011 on WhatsApp. Remember, you want to use the voice message button. It's labeled with voice over at the bottom right of your screen, or you can send us an email to content at vi dot i e. That's content at vi dot i e. But for now, that is our show. Thank you so, so much for listening. We really hope you've enjoyed it from the conversation with Hable on speech labels and stocktiles to all of the topics in Talkin' Technology News. We really hope you've enjoyed the ride. So thank you so much for listening. 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