The future of accessibility at Tesco - Talking Technology episode 118

On this episode of Talking Technology, David takes a trip to a Tesco superstore to hear from James Hurst, head of UX design and research for the store experience.

They explore Scan as You Shop, as well as the recent accessibility improvements made to Tesco self-service machines.

There’s a long way to go, so David and James discuss new changes that will see accessibility preferences saved to a customer’s ClubCard, as well as the possibility of screen readers for self-service and scan as you shop devices.

The Google graveyard expands in this week’s tech news, and we have good news for users of Windows 10.

All that and more on this week’s episode of Talking Technology.

Join the conversation with a WhatsApp voice note now. The number you need is +353 86 199 0011. 

1:42 – Comments from Toni regarding live AI, and explaining Scan as You Shop

8:03 – Demo of a Scan as You Shop at Tesco

28:26 – Tesco self-service machines

40:09 – Talking Technology News

Transcript

0:00

This Vision Ireland podcast contains chapter markers. If you want to skip the intro or a topic you don't like, you can use chapter markers to do so. Chapter markers are only supported in some podcast apps. Enjoy the show. Welcome to Talking Technology with VI Labs. At VI Labs, we believe technology is the single greatest enabler for people with sight loss and all disabilities. If you're looking for the latest news and conversation on tech, from a more accessible perspective, you've come to the right place. From a more accessible perspective indeed. Hello gang, welcome in to Talking Technology with VI Labs, episode 118. Hope you're keeping well. Hope all is going good for you. We have a great show coming up for you over the next hour or so. We are doing some retail therapy. I don't know if you're a fan of retail therapy or whether you enjoy shopping. You either love it or you hate it, to be honest. But we are going shopping at Tesco. We had the team from Tesco in the UK over to chat to us recently and we got to go shopping in one of the Tesco super stores to check out the accessibility of their self-service checkouts. We've talked a little bit about that on the show before and also their scan as you shop. So we'll tell you more about that in a bit as well. So do stick around because we would absolutely love to have you as part of that conversation. And on that note, there are loads of ways if you would like to get involved that you can get in touch with us. So if you want to join the conversation, you can find us on WhatsApp if you would like. You can send us a message using 086-199-0011. That's 086-199-0011. Or if you're one of the lucky ones and you can now search by username, you'll find us at Talking Technology. That's at Talking Technology. You can also send us an email if you'd like. You can send that to content at vi.ie. That's content at vi.ie. So whether you would like to send us an email, a WhatsApp or anything of that nature, we would love to hear from you at Talking Technology 086-199-0011 or content at vi.ie. And to go through some of the correspondence from the week gone by, I am joined from Kilkenny by Mr. Joe Ronaghan. Joe, how are you? Hi there, I'm good. Down here in the sunny South East. Another heatwave incoming. Another heatwave incoming, absolutely. As we record this, we were checking in with Daniel before we started recording. They're up to 27 degrees there, which is pretty cool. So yeah, heatwave incoming indeed. But we did, Joe, have one bit of correspondence in from the last week. Nothing related to heatwaves, but this related to live AI. Tony asking by email, is there live AI in Ireland? Does live AI exist? You know, what are its benefits for blind people? All of that. This is a topic that's a bit confusing for people, Joe. It's very confusing. Live AI to me is AI that updates in real time. For example, maybe you can point your phone or maybe your smart class at something that tells you the bus is coming or whatever, or maybe a taxi has arrived. But there is a version of live AI to a degree, like even on your Scene AI app, as you point it around, or maybe I think there's a napkin scribing me going around. It's not fully available here, I don't think. And then you have Orion on the metaglasses as well. There are versions of live AI, but they're not reliable enough for me to be recommending at the moment as of yet. But they're getting there and they are very good in their development. There's also Gemini. Gemini is probably the closest to live AI that's available here in Ireland. I'm talking to some Android users and they love it. I don't use it myself, I'm on the iPhone. I know it has a Gemini app, but I haven't really tested that extensively. But yeah, Gemini is making big strides in live AI as well. And the EU regulations are holding back slightly over here in Ireland. But look, yeah, what Tony refers to, yeah, some of the apps he does use do have live AI, but it is confusing. It wouldn't technically be live AI, do you know what I mean? It's not going to the cloud, giving you that instantaneous real-time information as it updates, but it's almost there. The way I explain this to people is it's at the moment you ask and it responds, but it doesn't continuously watch out for things changing, like a taxi arriving or, you know, like, for example, we have an eclipse in Ireland tomorrow and, you know, you're not going to be able to ask, you know, when, well, you can ask, is it dark? But you can't get it to tell you when it's starting to get dark, for example. It's not continuously watching out unless you keep asking the question. But I do think we will get there in time, potentially. We will, and Tony requested that we get an expert on to talk about live AI. That's something we're going to look into. Maybe there might be one from Meta or somewhere like that that could speak about the live AI that they have in America and will it ever come here to Ireland. So, yeah, that's definitely a runner for the future. Absolutely. So thank you so much for the comment, Tony. If you want to join the conversation, you can send us a WhatsApp 086-199-0011. You can send us a voice message there with the voice message button, or you can send us a message through email to content at vi.ie. We would love to hear from you. Now, retail therapy. We love a bit of retail therapy. Are you into the retail therapy, Joe? I do. I'm very selfish. I love doing it for myself. Waiting around for other people while they shop for clothes now, that's debatable. So, yeah, I do like shopping, though. Very good. Indeed. I hate clothes shopping. I don't mind shopping to an extent, but clothes shopping drives me demented. But anyway, we'll come back to that later on when we talk about how we do shop. But Tesco, though. Tesco are rolling out a number of new accessibility features in their stores that are rolling out across their self-service tools and in the future to platforms like their Scan as you shop service. Now, I caught up with James Hurst in a Tesco superstore to go through some of these accessibility features, starting with those on Scan as you shop. Now, there's a few things to note here. Firstly, this is a work in progress. So these solutions don't have screen readers yet and a number of other things. James talks about that and what the future might look like. This is the first step in what is a much bigger project for them. So they're showing it to us at an early stage. So just keep that in mind as we go through. And the other thing is for people who aren't familiar with Scan as you shop as it stands, how this works is they have basically a wall of devices that you can scan your card, pick up and take around the shop with you. And you scan your items as you shop. So you can scan them, put them in your bag or whatever. And then when you get to the till, rather than scanning all of your individual items, you scan your little handheld unit. And that then basically does all of the heavy lifting for you. So that is what Scan as you shop is. Let's dive in and look at its accessibility with James. And we'll come back in just a bit to discuss all things self-service. So you join me in a Tesco specifically right next to the teabags where in a little bit, I am going to be catching up with the accessibility director for Tesco to discuss all of their new technology in store, their self-service checkouts, their Scan as you shop system. We're going to be looking at that too. It's eerily quiet around here. There's lots of beeping around the place because it's just me and a number of other staff at the minute. They are going around doing the whole scanning, I think for like delivery and stuff, which is really cool. So that is what's happening. I'm going to be meeting James from Tesco in just a bit. But so far I have a Tesco store to explore. And this is not just any store. This is a Tesco Superstore. So it is quite large. So we will see how we get on. So James, we are still in the Tesco. Firstly, thank you for coming over all the way from the UK. But do you want to tell us a little bit, what is your role at Tesco, first of all? So, hi David, I'm James. I'm the head of UX design and research at Tesco looking after the store experience. So my role on my team look after all the customer facing technology in store, from self-service to scan as you shop. Awesome. So what we're looking at today is the accessibility of the store experience. So we will dive in and we will go shopping in a bit. But do you want to tell us a little bit first off about some of the work that you've done so far? Yes. So a few years ago we started building our own software. And what we wanted to do was make it as accessible as possible. And so we worked with charities in the UK to understand the needs of our customers. And we started to build out a very long vision of what we wanted to achieve. Starting with what we saw as the easiest, which was large text and high contrast modes. So earlier this year we launched the second phase, which is our high contrast, which allows customers to change the color contrast of the tool to two other options. So we've got blue and white and black and yellow, as well as increasing the font size of the tool. OK, so we don't have and we will talk about screen readers and so on and so forth later. But for now, shall we just explore the shopping experience? Because I guess we met at a conference in Dublin a couple of months ago. And at that I mentioned to you that I had never used the self-service experience. Was that a surprise to you as someone working in that kind of experience? It was both a surprise and not a surprise. So when we started this whole program, we knew that the self-service, in general, all self-service not just the Tesco's were fairly inaccessible to a broad range of people with better accessibility needs. Not only visual impairment, but also physical and hearing. And so what we've tried to do is look at ways that we can optimize that. You talked about screen readers and yes, the realization is how far we've got to go. But I think the point is that making even incremental changes to the experience for everyone is our aim and that it's worth doing. I suppose I was quite shocked. I think, you know, I joked that making sure that you get a bagging alert because everyone in life needs a bagging alert. Yes, we do. I felt like you were missing out on something. So today feels like a rite of passage for both of us, I think. Okay, well, I look forward to it. Well, let's get down to business and let's start with scan as you shop. So do you want to tell me first off before we grab our little machines, or I don't know how this process works, but do you want to tell me what is scan as you shop? How does that work? So scan as you shop is a handset that you can take around the store and you can scan your own items as you shop. And this allows you to pack as you go, but also means that you can keep running tally of what your shopping is. We also allow integration with shopping lists. So you could load up your shopping list before you come and then check it off as you go around. Very cool, very cool. All right, let's see if we grab one of these machines then, shall we? Yeah, and I think the caveat to this is that we haven't done any accessibility on scan as you shop. So this would be a really useful test bed. Okay. To see how difficult it is. Well, we'll go through it warts and all. Let's see how we get on, shall we? So I'll take your lead. Yep. So we'll grab a basket. Yep, I'll let you carry that because I have hands full. That's fine. So when someone comes into the store, how do they get these scan and shop devices? So we'll walk over to the scanner, what we call a scanner wall. Scanner wall, I love that. And what you have is a completely visual screen. Okay. Where you would need to scan your club card to release a handset. Okay, well, let's try scan my club card then and see if this works. Let's see, does this one work? Let's give it a go. Where would I be tapping then? So what you need to do is, no tapping, you need to put it on the screen underneath as a scanner. Like so? Further down. Like this? Oh, okay. Did that do its thing? Club card not recognized, you would know that because it doesn't say any audio. So club card not recognized. It's interesting to tell even that that's, you know, an issue that I suppose, as you said, I wouldn't have known about. Let's try this one. Down again. And there you go. So what you've got now is, again, you don't know this because it's the exact same noise. Yep. What you agree to give is a screen where you need to agree to the terms and conditions. Okay. And you've got an agree and decline button. Okay. So again, all visuals. All visual. Okay. So I'm going to probably ask you to do the honors here then. I think you should try first. Okay. Because this is, this is. So how would, so this is a little screen. I'm just going to feel here and I've got a little, it feels like a little tablet on a wall. Yeah, that's exactly what it is. So now I obviously wouldn't know where the accept button is, but I'm just going to poke around and see what happens. I'm going to instinctively go for the corridor. And you have agreed. Oh, okay. Now, what's happened is, again, purely visual, no audio. What it said is there's a, a handset has released and it's got hello. Okay. So I actually have enough vision to see that, but again, if someone, it's right down at the bottom, I think. Now what's happened is it's timed out because it hasn't given you enough time. Okay. To get there. This is why we're doing what we're doing. It sure is. Okay. Now you need to do that all over again. Right. Okay. At least we know what we're doing this time. But hopefully this time, because you've used it once, or technically used it once, you should hopefully only get the release again. So let's try. Okay. Let's, let's see how quickly I can do this. So I'm going to pull up my club card on my phone and I'm going to put that under this lovely machine. Okay. I think that it beeped. So I'm going to take that as a good thing. So we just go aim for the corner. I heard nothing happened. So I'm going to continue tapping away. There. Got it. Oh, super. Again. Okay. And this one is closer to me. So can I just pull this out? Yep. How do I get it out of the thing? Or do you lift it? It's just my own experience. Okay. So let's try again. This is not good. Third time lucky. Okay. Okay. I'm going to agree with you this time. Yeah, I'll let you agree. Okay. Right down at the bottom again. Let's pick this lot up. There we go. We now have, so this feels, do you know what this immediately reminds me of? Go on. The old Wii remotes in a weird way. It's like a little kind of, it feels really nice. So it's got a screen here on the top and it almost feels like a phone on the top, but it's got like a phone attached to a handle. Yes. Would be the best way I would describe that. So this is our little scan and chop device and it's got a kind of a button on it that your thumb kind of naturally rests on. I can feel that. Is this bit a touch screen? It is a touch screen, but you've also got the physical button which allows you to do the scanning. So can this be used completely without the screen? Obviously this whole setup process, we've found a number of issues here so far. Can this be used without me needing to see this screen? Believe so, yeah. Well, let's find out, shall we? Okay. Now, I am, because I've got a microphone, cane and scanning thing, we are going to need three hands, but we will make this work. And what do we want to shop for? Well, what would you like? Good question. Let's just say if we wanted to get just a regular... We pop in quickly for a drink because that I suppose is the handiest thing to, I guess, pick up. You might run in. This is an example where you might use the scan system, I guess. Or I guess even a lot of people would use it for the weekly shop. But the next thing is finding where things are. Now, that's not your area. So there is partnerships with Be My Eyes and others that they're not your area, but they do exist in the UK stores. And we'll hopefully find out if those can roll out in Ireland at some point. One of the things we are looking at is wayfinding anyway in general for all users. And one of the use cases obviously supports that possibility. So if you were to have your own shopping list on that screen, it would give you a list and it would give you the... You could order it by aisles and therefore it could help you not only remember the items, but... So it could in theory talk to you and give you instructions with directions. Yes. Very cool. Okay. Future stuff, though. Future stuff, though. So that's spoilers for you. Okay. We love spoilers on this podcast. So I can hear fridges. Is this the drinking section? We are right in front of the cold drinks. Okay. Well, let's pick up just something. It doesn't really matter then what we pick up. But let's pick up... I'm just going to pop my hand out here. Oh, that's not... That doesn't feel like a drink. That's a sandwich. Oh, that's a sandwich. Okay. So drinks up this way maybe or... Right in front of you is some cans. Oh, very good. Okay. So I can tell that this is an orange and I can tell that it is a Fanta. So we'll see what other options... Oopsie daisy. Knocking things over as per usual. So we'll take a look. That feels like the Lipton ones or something like that. I don't know what it is, but that's okay. That's an energy drink. An energy drink. A bit early for that. It is a bit early for that. We're recording this in the morning. Do you know what? Let's just stick with whatever this green one is. It's probably a Sprite considering. No, it's a 7up. I can tell that one. So let's say I want to scan this. Can I hand you that? Thank you. So how would I go about scanning this? So I've got the button. I'm going to do this instinctively. I'm going to press the button. And I'm just going to turn the can around to see that it does nothing automatically. But if I... It doesn't do anything automatically. So one thing to point out. Yes. Is that the scanner is at the top of the device. Like here. Okay. Okay. So it's here. So if you press the button. Okay. And then that's released. It's shining a little light. Oh, and it kind of timed out on me there again. It's at the bottom. So this just goes to show. And the interesting thing is you've passed the barcode quite a few times. Okay. Haven't stopped you because that's not fair. But you're there. And then... It should work. It is. Oh, it did work. Or did it beep? Try again. And let's go back a bit. Try again. Oh, there we go. That was tricky. Oh, and now it gave me a noise. And it did. I think it vibrated. Yes. Which is cool that it does have that. But what is it indicating on screen there? I feel like I've got a reward or something. It does. It says you've got fresh offers to use. Oh, okay. Show me my offers or close. Well, because this isn't particularly accessible. I'm going to hit the bit underneath, which I'm guessing is closed. That is closed. There we go. So again, I am using the limited usable vision I have here. But yeah, so then let's say just when we finish this experience, the actual checkout part. So we've picked up our bits. How would we go about actually checking out? What we will do now is we'll head to the checkout. Yeah. And then in this store, there's a dedicated area for a Spanish shop. Super. And in other stores, there might not be. What you would do is on the screen. Yes. On the device itself, you could obviously do lots of stuff, like remove items and stuff like that. But as you're ready to check out on the screen on two different places. This bit in front of me. Yeah. There's a barcode which you then scan. So I scan like this. Oh, okay. That worked and it gave a little doo-doo sound as well. And again, facing into the fact that we are... Just face it into the fact that we are... First time you've shopped, you've got what we call a service check. And the service check is to just ensure that you've scanned all the items. Okay. Again, it will tell you that because you're a new user. Okay. It's on the screen. But all of that is oblivious to you because... Yes. It's all purely visual. So what would happen in this instance is a colleague will come over who she did. Okay. And she's going to come back. Okay. Hi, how are you? How are you? Not too bad. So the colleague needs to scan her barcode to say that she's a colleague. And what she's now got is a service check on her screen. So she's taken the handset off you. Yes. The handset, as far as you're concerned, is now finished with. Yeah. And what will happen is all doing well, you'll be transferred to Attil. Okay. Super. Excellent. And then just pay normally with your card. So let's tap the card there and see that that works. And that should hopefully do it. Thank you so much to James for that. It's a really interesting process, that whole scan as you shop thing. It's something I could, in theory, see myself using when it develops and when it gets a screen reader. It's important to note that, as James said there, they haven't done any accessibility work on scan as you shop yet. So this is all early days. But what do you think of the concept, Joe, if we take all of that out of it for now? The concept is really interesting. I'm really delighted to see Tesco doing development on accessibility in retail, because there's not that many people that are even showing much interest in the accessibility part of it. So congrats to Tesco. But yeah, the scan as you shop, having a little item to bring around with you and scan. You go along and then reduce the friction of actually queuing. That's probably the dreaded part for a lot of people, queuing and throwing your items on the checkout and collecting them and putting them all back in a bag. At least you have a couple of tasks done there. You've thrown the items in your bag and you've paid for them. You're out the door then. You know what I mean? I think my little boy might love that more than me going around scanning items. Yeah, so he's 10 years of age. Sometimes he helps you with the shopping and stuff as well. But I think it's a great idea. Hopefully that will get developed into an accessible option. Absolutely. How do you manage shopping generally, Joe? Generally, I have a great supermarket here, Supervalue Callan, and the staff in there are amazing. But they know me and I go in and just ask, could someone give me a hand? They come around, pick out my items, throw in my bag, open the counter, and then I pay for them out the door. But yeah, that means I need an assistant. You know what I mean? When I go around the shop. On occasion, I suppose, I'll go in and I'll find something because it'll be so familiar, maybe sourdough bread or something. And I might only need that item. I know where that is. So I just grab a chance me arm and go up to the counter and pay for it. But that's only if the shop stays the same layout as always does. In fairness to that shop, it does. But that's not the same with all supermarkets. And then on occasion, my little boy is with me and he helped me out with shopping. He's 10 years of age. And occasionally, I've used Aira Explorer as well. But generally, I don't waste minutes. But I don't like using only minutes on that kind of a task. There is be my eyes out there as well. But I find I just get to ask the staff to help me. And they kindly do. There you go. I'm much the same. I will where I can if I know the layout of our Aldi or whatever, I'll be able to manage that. And then for other stores, I will typically get assistance. I did have an experience. I don't know if I've told this story on the podcast before. I may have. But one of the things I hate is closed shopping. And recently, I went to the shopping center here in Corka. Mahan Point, it's the biggest in Munster. And they have a stylist service. So you're able to book time with a stylist who will go around to the shops with you. You're able to pick out different outfits, not individual clothing items. Now you're being styled here. But you go around to your different stores, you try on a few different bits and pieces. And it was a very accessible process because they were able to effectively assist me through the whole process. And you have the added bonus, Joe, of getting a few deals thrown in because you're using that service too. And then they just ask for a donation at the end, which is really cool. It's fantastic, actually, David. There is a person shopper service provided by other big department stores as well, like Severnitz and Brown Thomas. I think that's great because I think a lot of blind and vision impaired people, they don't have that option to scan the store with their eyes and see what they might like, at least a bit of guidance from an expert, you know, that really knows the store very, very well and can help you out. If you're getting ready for a communion, a confirmation, a wedding or anything like that, and you want to buy a rig out, you know, just to get, just so you look well and you don't have to be guessing. So I think it's a great service, David. Hundred percent. So moving on then with Tesco, that was the Scan As You Shop service. Really interesting one. But as we said, not a huge amount has been done with that one on accessibility so far. It's a different story, though, for self-service checkouts. Still a work in progress. They don't have screen readers or anything like that yet, although it is on the road map. But they have rolled out some features such as a high contrast mode and a large print mode. So here's what happened when James took me further into the Tesco store to go shopping once again. So what we'll do is I'm going to take you now shopping. OK. And what we're going to try and do is we'll do it twice. OK, yeah. What we can do is just grab a couple of items. And the reason we're going to grab a couple of items is because I know that there's certain things on the screen that are going to be more difficult for you. OK. And we're going to try and get you to do it. So we'll do it in the accessibility mode because there's no point doing it in any other mode. Yes. We can play test the new stuff. Yeah, so what we're going to do is we're going to get you a croissant anyway. OK, super. The reason for this is that the reason for it is not that I'm not sweet to you, it's because. Well, that's who? That as well. Yeah. But it's more to sort of illustrate the, I suppose the struggles that people have if you're buying stuff that we call loose items. So loose items are items that don't have a barcode. The other thing just to call out when you're using the scanner as your shop. Yeah. Because if you were to buy the same products, what you would need to do is scan those products. So for the chocolate croissant we're about to buy. Yes. That you would need to put, scan the shelf edge label. Right, so what we've got here is the self service. It's a card only machine. Yeah. What we have here as you might be able to navigate in the bottom right corner is an accessibility button. Physical or on screen? On screen unfortunately. OK, is that something that you'll probably change at some point? At some point, yeah. OK, fair enough. So I'm just going to whack that. Now, this is where you're being given the accessibility settings. So what you've got is a high contrast mode. You've got default, set to default, and then you can choose black and yellow and blue and white. So I can't see enough to adjust that now at this point. I can't see that there's, to me this is just a white screen basically. So should we put it into, what would you prefer, black and yellow? Let's try, let's try black and yellow. Can we have large print and the high contrast at the same time? So I believe that is the bottom. This page is all in the larger text by the way. OK, I still can't see it but we'll give it a go. Give it a go. OK. And then we'll put it into black and yellow. OK, perfect. Now that's changed to black and yellow. I can see that it's changed. I still can't see what's on the screen as such. But in fairness to you guys, I would be a screen reader user anyway. So that's not a fault of the system. It's just my vision is probably beyond this level at this point. But that's not a fault of your system per se. So what we've got is confirm. OK. Now, we like spoilers. I can see there's a yellow box down in the corner here. So that's your pay. OK, so that's the amount, is it? Yeah, so at the moment you've got zero. OK. So the first thing I'm going to give you is some mayonnaise. OK, super. So if you want to scan that, I'll hold you up. Thank you. So oh, there we go. I did it, I think. So I can then pop this down here? Yep. OK, so we take our second item. So what I'm going to give you is your chocolate croissant. OK, perfect. Now, this is where we know that it's difficult. So there's no barcode, isn't there? There's no barcode, OK. So you need to look it up. Oh, I have to look it up? Oh, goodness. OK, right. So what we have is we do have, we know as a screen reader for visually impaired customers, we know that there's only a certain amount that they can see. So this is the bakery. OK. And what you have on the screen is the large text, the large images. Yes. And we've got to choose cakes and pastries. OK. OK. So again, all of our screens should have audio as well as visual cues. Yes. And what we would do here is go through the options to try and find the correct item. OK. And you found it there? And then we found it. And then what we try to do is create not only the size, but create that differentiated between the different buttons. So the primary call to action is always in the strongest. In the strongest color of yellow. So we've added that. OK, so I can pop this down in the side bit there. OK. And then the last one you've got, that's your potato. A potato. Now, this is a weight item. This is a weight item. OK. So you need to put this on the scanner. Just place it there. Yeah. And you would do the same thing with find an item. OK. And again, you would need this level of visual. And now that's weighted. OK. And there was no beep even there either. No, there wasn't. That's interesting. So I can just place this on the side? Yeah. So that's very interesting. So from your point of view, right, are you looking at, because obviously even for a sighted person, there's a bit of a process there. Like you had to tap a few bits and so on and so forth. Is there a role for AI in this down the road, do you think? Yes, there is. And I think that's where it can certainly help with accessibility. So AI has been able to identify products. So instead of you having to look it up on a pick list, you can use product recognition. And we've tried that in some stores. Yeah. We've currently got that in Central Europe where you can put it on the scales and it will give you a short list of products. OK. So bananas, it will give you. Oh, it's getting impatient with us. Oh, yeah. And it will give you a short list of products to help you find it. But again, it's still visual. You'll still need to select it. It doesn't know the difference between the different types of apples, but it would know it as an apple. OK. Perfect. So then presumably, if I was to guess, I'm going to perceive a payment. I would ordinarily, I'm guessing, touch this bit. Yeah. Oh. Don't forget to scan or tap your club card. OK. Do we want to check out? Let's do it. Just to demonstrate. Yeah. Please tap or insert your payment card. So what we've done is used as signified that we're playing with card. Every screen, we try to make sure that every screen has audio instructions. Yeah. And what we try to do is remove as much noise as possible. But also, one of the things that we do is we allow customers to tap the payment card once they've tapped to pay. OK. You don't need to select card type or cash. Fair enough. So we know that you're going to pay, and then you would just tap. Now, the spoiler part of this is you've gone through this process of adding, setting up your preferences. And in the future, as we add more accessibility options, what we don't want is customers to have to set theirs up every time they want to shop. OK. So what we're launching in the next month is the ability for customers to save their accessibility settings to their club card. So all you need to do is walk up to the till, scan your club card, and it will remember you and load your preferred accessibility settings. And that's a big thing, because that will make this process a lot easier in theory, because you just have to do the scan bit once. Yes. And then it would remember it. We talked about screen readers. We have a long list of accessibility features that we want to look into and support. And we're a long way off, but screen readers are on the roadmap. OK. Super. As well as a number of other for customers with hearing impairments and how we can support them. As you found out with the scanner you shot with no audio on there at all. Yeah. And you're relying on beeps. When you take that away, you're not sure if you've scanned items, what's happening. And so we need to think about how we support customers where they have a hearing. Thank you so much, James, for that. Much appreciated. It is, I must say, I am interested in how this unfolds. I do have a little bit of a concern that we could see a move away from the human aspect of it. I think it's still very important to keep that. But I would be interested in potentially using this more and at least having the option there if these were to get a screen reader in the future. I don't know what your thoughts are, Joe. Yeah, David, I'm on the same thoughts as yourself. I really don't want to see an AI shop for sure, right? So I think there might be one in the airport or something where you scan your card going in and you pick up your items, it charges your card as you leave. But I don't want to see that kind of a service because customer service in a shop is really important, especially for us here in the vision impaired and blind community. It's great to meet a friendly face in the shop and help you pick out items, check dates before you put them in your basket and stuff like that. If that's what you need. But yeah, come back to the screen reader part. Yeah, screen reader would be great, but there's a lot of noise in a shop. And it'd be interesting to see how screen reader work. Maybe some tactile options like, you know, the scan part may be tactile, the pay button may be tactile, whatever. Even some Braille options. I don't know, it needs a room that we could all sit down and give some feedback in, David. And I'm delighted to see Tesco has even start the conversation. It's more than what some other shops are doing. It's the and there's the truth of it. I think it's a tough one because I do think like from my selfish point of view, yes, I know Tesco stores and any store is a noisy environment. I think for me adding a screen reader, I'd get such value out of that. But I think it's going to be different for everyone that will annoy somebody who may be autistic, for example. So there's so much to consider and that was something that myself and James talked about, is balancing all of this too. But hopefully as more people start to use these things, as they get linked to the club cards, people will start using it more. And more resources can be put into this stuff to actually improve the accessibility even further. So who knows what the future brings, but it is very exciting. So thank you, James, for coming over, showing us all that and as well for being so open about what's working and what isn't. Sometimes, you know, like any company, they just want to show off the bits that are working and that are polished. But Tesco were really honest with us and that is very valuable. So thank you so much for that. But now if you do want to tell us how do you shop, we'd love to hear from you. You can send us a message at Talking Technology on WhatsApp or you can use the good old fashioned phone number. Do you remember them? 086-199-0011. Or you can send us an email. That's even more old fashioned. Content at vi.ie. Although I suppose when you think about it, the phone number did come first. So there you go. Anyway, that is that. Let's move on now for a little bit of Talking Technology news with Daniel Dunn. This is Talking Technology News. So with your latest Talking Technology news, I'm Daniel Dunn. The fateful Google Assistant is making its way to the Google graveyard, joining lots of its friends in the afterlife. As we transition our mobile experience to Gemini, Google Assistant will no longer be available on your mobile device, Google said in an email to users. We will begin removing access to Google Assistant starting on September 4th and expect that this process may take a few weeks to reach everyone. Some users of Samsung phones will still have access to Bixby, but for many others, they will automatically be transitioned to Gemini in the near future. Lots of people have already transitioned to Gemini and are benefiting from the features like Gemini Live that allow real-time descriptions of what the phone can see through the camera. But lots of people will miss the ease of access that came with Google Assistant. Some of the only devices that are going to continue using Google Assistant are cars with some versions of Android Auto. For most smartwatches, earbuds and other devices though, the switch to Gemini will be enforced. There will no longer be a way to go back either, so this may be a bit of a change for people. Gemini can complete a lot of the tasks that Google Assistant did, such as making calls, sending texts, so hopefully the transition isn't too bumpy. Did you ever use Google Assistant? And are you looking forward to the transition to Gemini? Please do let us know with a WhatsApp voice note. In other news, Microsoft are going to continue security updates for Windows 10 for another year amid severe pressure on the hardware market due to shortages fueled by the rise of AI. The components used to make computers have become significantly more expensive, as they are being used in a lot of data centers to power the large AMI models. So what does this mean for you, the lucky Windows 10 user? Well, you can continue to use your Windows 10 PC or laptop for another year, at least until October 12th, 2027. The caveat remains that you must have a Microsoft account to do so, and if you do, you will continue to receive critical security updates for Windows 10, meaning your computer is safe and secure. If you need to, you can navigate to the Windows Update section of your Windows Settings page and ensure that you are enrolled in the Windows Extended Support Program to avail of these updates. You can also call our Help Desk at any stage if you need support also. Hopefully, the PC and laptop market becomes a little bit more sustainable over the next while, so that people can actually upgrade their machines and benefit from newer and better technology. And finally for now, we have talked on the podcast previously about some of the updates coming to Apple's Siri later this year. We now know that while lots of these features will be available to those on the iPhone 15 Pro and up, some will only be available on Apple's newest devices. Adjusting the speaking rate of Siri's voice, as well as a new, much more accurate dictation model, will only be available on the iPhone 17 Pro line and newer. Blind people use dictation quite a lot, so missing out on this improvement will be very disappointing for those who have older iPhones. The cost of Apple devices may also move higher in the next little while for the same reasons as the high costs in the PC computer industry. Time will tell though how all this plays out. Our courses are taking a break in August, but we do have lots of exciting content right around the corner for you to look forward to. So be sure to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. But for now though, it's back to you, David. Thank you very much, Daniel. Joe, if I come to you there, some of these new Siri features, even adjusting the voice, we don't know what's coming to Ireland, what's coming to where, but also now it's a bit unclear as to what phone is getting what features. Yeah, well, it's a little bit annoying really, because adjusting the voice is not my most important feature, but one of the things is the dictation, the more accurate dictation. Now, the fact that they said the 17 Pro and upwards, or even the new 18, will only support that and the older phones won't. That sticks in my craw a little bit, because I've only pushed the 17 a short time ago, and I least expected that to support future Siri updates. So that's really annoying, I suppose. I know, look, most of the other features are any of the Apple intelligent ones. They're all available back to the 15 Pro. OK, but yeah, so it's a bit of a dose, I suppose, that 12, you have to have 12 gig of RAM to support some of those features. So yeah, I'm a bit annoyed about it. But look, we'll have to evolve along with it, David, like we always do. There you go. And Joe, what are your thoughts on this Windows 10 extended support? Yeah, well, it sounds like they keep it extended, but you see, it's in their interest. A lot of people can't afford a new computer, and I suppose you can't leave them in the lurch. And at least it's going to support people that can't afford a new computer. And they can spot that. So many people out there with machines that are working fairly perfectly, but just the security isn't there. So they're going to extend that for another while. And I welcome it anyway. There is a lot of older people that might be retired from work and they only use the computer once a week or whatever. So they need this kind of support. Yeah, absolutely. Daniel, would you echo that? Yeah, I agree there with Joe. Look, as we mentioned there in the news, the price of components is just going upwards at the moment. AI data centers have been built not just across Ireland, but across most of the world at the moment. So these centers are obviously placing fierce pressure on the companies that produce microchips and all the bits and bobs that goes into making phones, making laptops, making computers. And not just that as well, but all devices out there that require microchips are feeling the pressure. So unfortunately, for the foreseeable, the prices are going to rise. So Microsoft, I suppose, are recognizing this. They did roll out a free upgrade to Windows 11 for existing Windows 10 users. Unfortunately, a substantial amount of laptops and PCs out there just did not meet the hardware requirements which is needed for Windows 11. So they couldn't be upgraded. So I think Microsoft kind of found themselves, well, if we switch off critical supports for Windows 10, it's going to force an awful lot of people to replace their machines. And at a time when prices are very high, it will be a very, very bad PR decision, I guess. So having said that, look, Microsoft would not come out shouting about this from the rooftops. They're kind of hoping that people will say, well, I'll go along and buy a new computer anyway. But for those who, you know, as Joss says, you might not use your laptop or your PC that much. You might use it a couple of times a week. Just, you know, type up a few emails, maybe do a couple of Word documents, just browse the net, you know, just kind of basic stuff. So your Windows 10 machine chugging along, even if it's not the quickest in the world, it probably just suits for those tasks. And it would seem an awful lot of waste just to kind of strong-arm people into changing the machines. You really, really don't have to. You know, if it's doing a job, if it ain't broke, why fix it? That's fair. That is very fair. Part of you would wonder, are Microsoft trying to not sell extra computers because they also need some of those AI chips? They need to get those prices back in hand themselves. Who knows? Yeah, that's an interesting angle on it too. I hadn't talked about that yet. Microsoft are rolling out their AI centers. So, yeah, they're probably saying, why come do it with yourself? Like, you know, exactly. But there you have it. But on the other side of the house, something that is being killed off, sent to the very extensive at this point, Google Graveyard. This is Google Assistant being killed off on a lot of devices. Yeah, yeah. So Gemini is going to be forced on the vast majority of Android users out there as their digital assistant. And yeah, like it's a good assistant. I like the devices. I think they're very natural. So, yeah, it's quite good. It can do lots of different tasks as well. It'll do everything that the Google Assistant did and a little bit more as well. One thing I will say is, you know, for TalkBack users, I've found and we've actually been reporting this to Google in some instances that TalkBack talks into Gemini and then it gets a little bit confused with itself. So hopefully, Google will come out and address that in the near future. But for, you know, for everybody else who's not using TalkBack, it's fine. If you come across this sometime early September, you haven't moved across yet and you may find that you just have to enable the permissions on Gemini to access your phone calls, your contacts, your microphone and WhatsApp as well. If you can use Gemini for sending WhatsApp messages and things like that. So you just you just probably have to enable those permissions. If you try to make a call that says, sorry, I can't do that and I need permission, there's a little button there that brings you over to do to the settings. There's a little slider for Google. Just switch that on and same when you try to do WhatsApp. This might not happen for everyone. It just happens in some cases. And once they are enabled, the Gemini works quite good. Apart from the TalkBack issue, I haven't come across any other issues with Gemini. So, yeah, it'll be it'll be a new experience for everyone going forward. Lots of different voices in there, too, if you really want to get in and customize it. Things are like about 12 or 14 or 16 different voices to choose from. And they're all very natural sounding and unique. So, yeah, you can you can you can customize that a little bit. So, yeah, it's going to be an interesting one to to see, you know, how everybody gets on with it. If anybody again, if anybody needs help and support for that, get on to your local IT trainer, get on to us, as you know, same for the Windows 10. About the enrollment in the extended program. You know, if you need help and assistance with that, get on to your local IT trainer with Vision Ireland or if you don't know who that is, or you need somewhere else to go for the Sportgiver National Help Desk. I call it's 1-800-911-110. We're there Monday to Friday at nine to five, excluding lunch, which is one to two and excluding bank holidays. So, yeah, there's a shout out on that. There you go. Oh, and David, we did test it. We did test it with action blocks. I know somebody asked. Oh, yes, do tell, do tell. It does. So you got to get back into action blocks into the main app. And in fairness, straight up in front of you on the screen comes a pop up. Do you want to use this with Gemini? And yes, I agree. And it works. Wow. There you go. I know we talked about that on the podcast before. Quite recently, actually. So, yeah, there you go. That is good to know, Daniel. Thank you very much for that. And hey, on that positive tip, that action box is now in business. We're going to love you and leave you. That is our show for this week. Thank you so much for listening. Thank you to the team from Tesco for coming over and being so open with us. That's much appreciated, too. And be sure to get in touch with us. If you do want to reach out, the number on WhatsApp 086-199-0011 or at Talking Technology, or you can send us an email to content at VI.ie. That's content at VI.ie. But for now, do stay safe. Be sure to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. And we'll see you really, really soon for another episode of Talking Technology with VI Labs. See you then. Thanks for listening to the Talking Technology podcast with VI Labs. If you'd like to support our show, please visit vi.ie slash donate. Talking Technology is proudly sponsored by IA Labs, the market leader in digital accessibility services. IA Labs, digital inclusion, your legal obligation.