14. Angkor, Cambodia

Jon and Jackie do some tomb raiding.  If tomb raiding could possibly be defined as having a discussion about one of the largest cities of the ancient world and the largest stone temple ever.   That’s right, they are in Angkor Cambodia.  Join them as they sit comfortably in their “Quarantine Nook” and relax their way through the virtual tours and plethora’s of information on this beautiful World Heritage Site.  Fake lions, immortality, and lettuce will be discussed thoroughly.

Jackie Reilly: Host
Jon Schaller: Host
Charles: Producer

Instagram: @cozynookexplorers
Email: cozynookexplorers@gmail.com

Community Shoutout:
Charity Water

Mentioned in this episode:
Angkor Wat
Angkor Tree

** 1 Disneyland = 500 acres ** 

Transcript

JACKIE: I’m Jackie 

JON: And I’m Jon 

JACKIE: And we are the cozy nook explorers!

JON: Welcome to our show where we explore the world from our cozy nook here in New Jersey using the power of the internet!

Jackie: Yes and it’s Wednesday which means it’s time for another exploration! AND WE ARE IN QUARANTINE IN CALIFORNIA for the next two weeks because we just flew across the country as step one of our California move! Can you believe we finally made it to California?!

Jon: I can believe it because I am here. 

Jackie: I just can’t! There are PALM TREES and there is no humidity! And every day is perfect! Charles is here too which is so great because we need our trusty producer!

Jon: We aren’t exactly sure how many episodes we will be recording over the next few weeks in our cozy quarantine nook, but we will keep you posted as we go! Although, we will technically be out of quarantine when this episode comes out because we are recording it in mid- July and it will come out at the end of the month.

Jackie: TIME TRAVEL! That’s so cool! Speaking of time travel, this week we are going to be traveling BACK in time to the ancient city of Angkor in CAMBODIA! I have to say, I knew nothing about Angkor before we began researching and this quickly became one of my favorite places, if not my FAVORITE place we’ve visited so far! All I can say is WOW! Jon, this episode was your idea. How did you learn about Angkor? 

Jon: I remember an image of it in a national geographic a long time ago.  I also remember it from the movie Tomb Raider with Angelina Jolie.  Which is very much not the best movie but going back and looking at the scenes that take place in Angkor it is understandable why the location stayed with me.

Jackie:  It is funny what stays in your mind.

Jon:  Sometimes it is amazing 

Jackie: Yes. Speaking of amazing- we got a couple of really great- 

ASK CHARLES questions from our listener Liana!  

Jon: Our producer Charles is the ‘Banksy of Podcast Producers’ and a man of mystery. He likes to keep his private life private, but has agreed to answer some audience questions. He agreed to answer one question this episode.

Jackie: Liana’s question is ‘Charles what is your favorite cozy food and drink?’

Jon: And his answer is holiday cookies preferably ginger snaps and cereal milk preferably from lucky charms. 

Jackie: Delish! Speaking of cozy- Jon- what’s keeping you cozy this week?

WHAT’S KEEPING YOU COZY

Jon: Bubble Wrap Therapy 

• Do you prefer the big bubbles or the little bubbles?
• Do you secretly hope that there is bubble wrap in every online package that you receive?

Jackie: Lettuce Fresh From The Garden!  While we were in New Jersey we had the chance to see lettuce grow in the garden! 

• Do you have a favorite type of lettuce?
• What is your favorite use for lettuce?

Let’s Get into it 

Jon:  I want to start off by saying that the volume of information on Angkor Cambodia is stagoring.

Jackie: I feel like we have just cracked the surface on this one. I feel like I’ve been saying that a lot lately, but there are also so many fascinating theories and myths that go along with the facts! 

Jon: We should start by saying that we will be talking about Angkor and Angkor Wat. Angkor is a massive ancient city. Angkor Wat is a structure within this city that is very prominent and well known. I think it’s the most popular part of the city.

Jackie: It has been so much fun researching Angkor, but it feels impossible to know where to start.  If I had to choose, I’m thinking we need to start by going back in time. Like, super duper far back. 

Jon:  Like dinosaurs back in time? Because we can talk about how all of the stones were formed.

Jackie: Ok, not that far or else this episode would be 3 hours long. But, still really far. 802 AD! Possibly, the furthest back we’ve gone on the show yet… 

Jon: I think we should start by talking about Angkor as a whole and then go into details about Angkor Wat and the people who lived there.

Jackie: Sounds good see- there are just so many layers to this! Ok, lets start with the city of Angkor before this whole podcast is just us deciding where to start.

Jon: Angkor, Cambodia- also known as who’s on first part two!

Both: (Laugh)

Jackie: Angkor

Jon: Wat?!

Jackie: Angkor

Jon: Angkor Wat?!

Jackie: Angkor

Jon: Angkor Wat?!

(Laughs)

Jackie: Alrighty- SO the ancient city of Angkor was believed to be 900 hectares which is about 4.45 Disneylands!

Jon: It is also believed that Angkor was once the largest city in the World with a population of that could have possibly been as large as million people.

Jackie: To give some perspective, London’s population at this time in history was about 30,000 people. Angkor was larger and more advanced than any European city during the same time. 

Jon: Like all early civilizations having a river that floods and recedes is essential for Agriculture because it creates automatic fertile land.  Angkor is on the west bank of the Siem Reap River. They were able to harness the water from the river to water rice fields and build an intricate canal system throughout the city and this allowed them to THRIVE. Also, they were able to eat the fish in the river!

Jackie: Without the Siem Reap River and the innovative and advanced infrastructure system that was put into place, Angkor could have never existed.  Everyone had access to water including little ponds behind their homes! Doesn’t that sound delightful?!

Jon: It does. In my mind the canal is like a lazy river running through the city and everyone had their own inner tube, but I don’t think that was quite how it was.

Jackie: That would be awesome! Lazy rivers are the coziest of all water rides.

Jon: Did you see about NASA?

Jackie: I did! This is so neat! So, a big issue that archeologists face while trying to study Angkor is that the area is overgrown with the jungle because it was left abandoned for so many years. This has made it challenging to know how the infrastructure worked and how many temples there were.   

Jon: In 1994 archaeologists teamed up with NASA to gain a better understanding of the area. NASA was able to use radar detection that could see through vegetation while they were in space. 

Jackie: When they were flying over Angkor they scanned the area and were able to give archeologists photos where they could see outlines of additional temples along with the roads and canals!

Jon: They were able to confirm that the ancient city was 100 kilometers long and 10 kilometers wide. 

Jackie: Which one is it, Jon?

Jon: Both.  It can be pronounced both ways.

Jackie: That’s very diplomatic of you. Anyway, by using the NASA scans from the 90’s, archaeologists today are able to pinpoint areas to study and they are also able to give us a better understanding of how the city worked! Another reason to say yay to outer space! 

Jon: I think we need to talk about WHO lived in Angkor. 

Jackie: Should we talk about the Khmer Empire?

Jon:  Yes- let's go to the top of this society with the concept of the God Kings. 

Jackie:  From what I can see, the God Kings were similar to the Pharaohs in Egypt, but instead of being a connection from the people to the Gods.  The Kings of Angkor were viewed as Gods.  They built themselves massive temples.

Jon:  Syria Varmen the second was the king who created Angkor Wat which is an indescribable, insanely epic temple complex. I’ve never seen something so amazing. We will put a link to a photo in the show notes. Angkor Wat is the largest stone temple in the world.  A hindu temple that was meant to house the remains of a King and that King was Syria Varmen.  It took thirty years to build. And Syria varmen has a relief sculpture of himself looking pretty Epic.  

Jackie: What’s a relief sculpture?

Jon: It is when you have a wall then take away portions of the wall till you have a sculpture.

Jackie: So it goes inward, not outward? 

Jon: Bingo. So, I have definitely read a number of expert opinions talking about God King Theory.  I am just not certain about it.

Jackie:  I think there’s a lot of logic to the God King archaeological theory.  How do you get that many people to comply with the epic amounts of manual labor needed to create this massive temple complex and harvest that much food? You would have to believe that the person you are creating this for is a God.  I should also note even though some people choose to be part of the creation of Angkor, slaves were also forced to build much of the city which is a very sad piece of their history and important to remember.

Jon: Yes, that’s very troubling. But I am still not sold about the God King Theory because Angkor Wat was a temple to the Hindu God Vishnu.  I think maybe Syria Varmen was just trying to intertwine his story with Vishnu so that he could have more legitimacy after taking the throne by force.

Jackie: I don’t know I have seen the statues and I have seen the sculptures. Doesn’t it look like this guy wanted you to think he was a God?

Jon:  Well I think you win this round.

Jackie: Yes I did. Let’s move on. What did you think of your virtual tours?

Jon:  I loved them.  The consensus for traveling is to wear comfortable shoes because you will be on your feet all day.  Keep in mind that you will be in the sun all day. 

Jackie:  Yes, and remember this is a religious temple so you have to wear long pants and shirts that cover your shoulders.  If you wear a skirt or a tank top they will tell you you gotta go home and change.

Jon:  A number of people I saw suggested going in April because it is the hottest month of the year and there are no crowds as a result.

Jackie:  How hot are we talking?

Jon:  40 degrees.

Jackie:  What no that can’t be true.

Jon:  40 degrees Celsius and that is 104 degrees fahrenheit

Jackie:  That sounds more accurate and it also sounds like I will not be going in April.

Jon:  You would not trade heat for no crowds

Jackie:  Nope!

Jon: Okay!  Another thing is there are no guard rails on the moat and some people fall in if they get too close.

Jackie:  Ohhh that beautiful square Moat.

Jon:  Yes the miracle that is that perfectly square Moat.  We will get back to the Moat after a word. From our sponsor

Jackie:  Sounds good.

AD Break #1

Jackie: This podcast is brought to you by lettuce fresh from the garden. Want lettuce, but don’t want to go to the store? Start a garden! Sure, it’ll take a bit for the lettuce to grow, but once it does- you can make a salad! So, yes you’d need to go to the store until the lettuce grows, and you’d also need to go to the store for the salad toppings, and I guess you’d need to get your gardening supplies there too, BUT you don’t need to buy the lettuce at the store because it’s in your garden- eventually!  So, go to the store and get growing today!

Jackie: So back to the Moat. It is so pretty and square.  If you are going to build something that is meant to keep out invaders make it aesthetically pleasing.

Jon:  I never thought of Rain as an invader but I guess I could come around to that way of thinking.

Jackie: Alright so explain.

Jon:  Well Angkor Wat sits right on top of a pretty significant water table. And the water table fluctuates rapidly due to a Monsoon season and a dry season.  When that water table fluctuations  that warpeds land and the foundation under the temple.  This would destroy the temple very quickly if no other preventative measure were built.   

Jackie:  So the Moat acts as a way of keeping the water table stable.

Jon:  Exactly.

Jackie:  The water table stable I like the way that sounds. It’s like a cute little horse barn.

Jon:  It not only sounds cute it is the thing that has kept the building standing for centuries.  Not to mention all the Statues inside.

Jackie:  There are dozens and dozens of Statues that are carved into the stone walls themselves.

Jon:  They are so intricate and beautiful.  I really like the statues of the smiling faces.  Although those statues are in Bayonne and that is in Angkor Watt Archaeological Park.

Jackie:  They are the most cozy happy statues I have ever seen.

Jon:  I can’t think of a single smiling statue from ancient Rome or Greece.

Jackie:  It must have been insanely hard to hold that smiling pose for so long. 

Jon:  But the fact that they have such a thing as smiling statues seems so foreign yet induces such a feeling of happiness in me. I now wish more statues smiled.

Jackie:  I love the lion statues that look nothing like lions.

Jon:   Well I think they have captured the essence of a lion.

Jackie:  It could be described as lion adjacent.

Jon:  Pho Lion

Jackie: Astro Lion

Jon:  Hehehehe It looks like some sort of monster yet of all other things it could be Lion is the best description.

Jackie:  It's like someone told an artist what a lion looks like but never showed him a real lion.

Jon:  Maybe that is what happened because Lions are not native to Cambodia but it is possible that they met someone who travelled to Africa who told them about Lions.

Jackie:  (Adorable)  But they are so cute, the Lions who are not Lions.

Jon:  And speaking of the sculptures I wanted to talk about the Churning of the Sea of Milk.

Jackie:  The Churning of the Sea of Milk is a relief sculpture - I know that now!-  that is carved into a wall.  

Jon:  It's a religious story and an instruction Manual about how to attain the elixir of life.

Jackie:  The Elixir of Life is like the Hindu version of Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's stone or Philosopher- same difference. 

Jon:  The Instructions would be as follows first be a God

Jackie:  Second- stand on a giant Turtle.

Jon:  Third place a mountain on your head.

Jackie:  Next get the Turtle into the Ocean while you continue to stand on it.

Jon:  After that wrap a giant snake around your waist

Jackie:  Have all the other Gods and Demons pull on the snake to spin you around very quickly.

Jon:  This will churn the ocean and the elixir of life will come to the top.

Jackie:  This sculpture is so intricate and beautiful.

Jon:  What I like about this story is that it gives the ocean a property of immortality by acknowledging the ocean is where the mysterious stuff comes from..

Jackie:  I just think it is a pretty sculpture and I like the part about the turtle.

Jon:  It is beautiful and I have to say that considering that the ocean has coral that can live for 1100 years that was a pretty good guess that the secret to immortality would live in the ocean.  

Jackie:  Speaking of water, did you see that the very same relief sculpture  The Churning of the Sea of Milk being destroyed by the rain.

Jon:  And a group of people tried to fix it with western building techniques and only made the problem worse.

Jackie:  Yes they tried to repair the roof by using mortar which is a building paste that you use to lay down items like bricks. 

Jon:  One thing that is amazing about Angkor Wat is that they built the largest temple in the world and the didn’t use Mortar at all.  They shaped the stones by rubbing them up against each other and fitting them flush together.

Jackie:  It looks like they had to do it that way in order to deal with all the water from the monsoons.

Jon:  So now to protect the Churning of the Sea of Milk they had to repair it without Mortar like they did originally to keep the rain out.

Jackie:  Thankfully the sculpture was saved and the work of the Khmer can continue to be seen today.

Jon:  I think the big question we have yet to address is why was this amazing achievement in Architecture abandoned by the Khmer Empire and taken over as a buddhist monastery. 

Jackie:  I can answer that.  Researchers have now shown that intense monsoon rains that followed a prolonged drought in the region caused widespread damage to the city's infrastructure, leading to its collapse. CLIMATE CHANGE! It’s not a new thing.  Also, the deforestation necessary to create all the rice fields to feed everyone caused environmental havoc in the area. DEFORESTATION- also not a new thing. There were also some wars and battles and by the time all was said and done it was just not a good place to live anymore. The Khymer weren’t destroyed or totally wiped out- they actually just moved to an area that they could start over and create a viable living situation again.

Jon:  And the Jungle reclaimed so much of the city and the temples.

Jackie: Until a french guy came along and pretended that he discovered it in 1860 even though there were Buddhist monks there the whole time. 

Jackie: Do you have anything else?

Jon: Jackie- we didn’t even talk about Angkor Tomb! 

Jackie: It was the last capital city of the Khmer empire and it was featured in the Laura Croft Tomb Raider movie that you mentioned  in the beginning of the episode! 

Jon:  It has a cool tree that seems to grow impossibly into the stones.

Jon:  The structure of Angkor is on the currency of Cambodia.  Do you have anything else?

Jackie: Much of what we know about Angkor during its hayday is from the diaries of Zhou Daguan who was a chinese diplomat that spent a good amount of time there and kept a journal. It’s hard to know what’s true and what’s been embellished because it was his personal log, but he wrote a lot about the customs of Angkor and it’s one oddly of the best resources we have. Angkor’s economy was based on international trade and the sold a lot of goods to China! Anything else?

Jon: It’s a world heritage site!

Jackie:  We will back with our community shout out after a word from our sponsors.

Ad Break #2  Bubble Wrap Therapy

I am Dave from Applications Incorporated where applications are born.  Today we got a really good application for you.  It’s called the bubble wrap App App.  We use state of the art technology to simulate what it is like to pop bubble wrap on your phone.  And every time you pop 1 million bubbles a drone is sent to your location with an appetizer that is covered in you guessed it bubble wrap.  It’s genius!  And you can expect this application to be available 2075.  

COMMUNITY SHOUTOUT- CHARITY WATER

Jon: Every episode we like to research and highlight something special in the community that we are exploring.

Jackie: Today’s community shoutout is Charity Water!

Jon: Charity Water is actually a non-profit organization based out of New York City. You may have heard of them, or even donated before.

Jackie: I’ve known and loved Charity water for about a decade. The founder Scott Harrison has a really inspiring story and they do great work all over the world, so I would highly recommend looking them up!

Jon: Nearly one in ten people in the world do not have clear water. Charity Water works with these communities to find long term and efficient solutions for bringing clean water to them. 

Jackie: Some areas that Charity Water works to not have access to water, so they need to do things like build wells, but as we learned about with Angkor, Cambodia has lots of water! The issue is that the water is not clean.

Jon: Because of this specific challenge, Charity Water works with a local partner- Clear Cambodia to educate rural communities about hygiene and help them to build their own water filtration system to clean the water they have access to.

Jackie: You can donate to Charity Water through their website. Something that I like a lot about donating to them is that your donation is always put towards the water projects. They have outside donors who cover their administrative costs. They are also extremely transparent with their funds in general, so that’s always great to see in a Charity. They also have a charity ball every year because Scott Harrison used to be a club promoter and knows how to throw a great party! Can you tell I’m obsessed? 

Jon: Yes, but for good reason. We will include a link to the Charity Water website in the show notes.

Jackie: Alrighty- I think that’s the show! Thank you to our producer Charles and to our correspondent Keenan for helping create the Angkor Wat ‘who’s on first’ bit! 

Jon: Thank you Charles and Keenan. And thank you so much to our listeners! We are so grateful that you take the time to listen to our show.

Jackie: Yes! Thank you so so much! Also, if you’ve been enjoying this podcast we would appreciate it if you took the time to rate us and write a review.

Jon: And we would also love to hear from you! Feel free to send us an email at cozynookexplorers@gmail.com!

Jackie: We will be back Wednesday with our next exploration.

Jon: Yes, on Wednesdays we explore!

Jackie: Stay cozy, and we’ll see you soon.