Season 2, Ep. 11 - When Justice Feels Delayed: A Christian Man’s Response To Evil And Hope

Some days it feels like evil is winning. We open the door to that honest ache and walk through it together, asking why the wicked seem to prosper and what faithful men can do without feeding bitterness or despair. From the pull of vengeance to the patience of hope, we trace a path that faces hard facts, honors Scripture, and keeps our families grounded when headlines won’t quit.

We get practical about the fixer’s instinct—how that drive to solve everything collides with systems you can’t control. Instead of numbing out or spiraling into obsession, we talk boundaries: watching the signs, limiting the doomscroll, and choosing purposeful action. Righteous anger has a place, especially when defending children and calling out hypocrisy, but we draw a firm line against celebrating harm or confusing justice with revenge. Romans 12:19 becomes our guardrail; courage and truth-telling remain our lane.

Preparation becomes a form of love. We share ways to steady teens who feel hopeless, build family rhythms that teach courage, and explain what it means to prepare without scaring. Along the way, we reflect on portrayals of Christ’s suffering—from The Passion of the Christ to stage productions—not for shock, but to remember the scale of mercy and the certainty of judgment. Delay is not approval. Eternal justice is unavoidable. That promise frees us to do our daily work: protect our homes, confront lies, teach our kids, and trust the Judge who sees what we can’t.

If this conversation helps you stand a little straighter, share it with a friend, subscribe for the next episode, and leave a review with one takeaway you’re putting into practice this week. Your words help more men find a steady path.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:03

Welcome to the Make a Man Podcast, where we explore what it means to be a man in today's society. All right, guys. Welcome to the latest episode of the Make a Man Podcast. I am your host, Brett, and we've got RJ. How's it going, RJ? I'm here again. I'm doing well. We're going to continue our conversation with everything going on. We're going to kind of steer it a little bit more into injustice that we can continue seeing. Because I see a lot of people making comments, and I'm kind of one of those people, I'll admit, that it's time to see people hang for what we've seen. It's time to see the justice of people getting what is coming to them for the crimes for not just crimes, but for the evil they have committed against our world. And so we're going to kind of dive into that, kind of talking a little bit about as a Christian, we see this all the time. So when we see these elites doing bad things or people in political powers, or even just in just in a form of power altogether, but no justice is coming to them. I mean, uh as a Christian, what do you think on how we how I mean we got to admit to ourselves that we see this all the time?

Why The Wicked Seem To Prosper

Scripture, Judgment, And Hope

SPEAKER_01 1:53

Yeah, yeah. And like sorry, I think I did I cut you off there. No, you're good. Okay. So yeah, I mean, it's it's something that you know we it's something we'll always experience, right? The reason people are getting to these points, right? There you see evil people as being successful and doing all these things. Well, the reason they got to that point is because they're evil, because they are willing to lie, steal, cheat, you know, say whatever, be manipulative to get into that point and to get into that position to where they are, because that's what they crave. That's the thing that's that's that's their reward is what's here and now, right? And we have as believers, and we see it throughout scripture, especially David, David struggled this a lot because there were so many people, so many people that were against him, but against God. And you know, he saw all the all the horrible things, even though, of course, he was a man and messed up himself. But you know, all these sins being committed against God, it bothered him. And you know, he came to the point where he's like, But I must focus on God. You know, Psalm 37 talked to you about that one before we started. That's a prime example. And 73, 73 also, you know, it's easy to remember those two. 73 is like, man, that that really hurts because we I I feel it, right? I feel the same thing. And you know, why do the people that hurt me and my family the most, why do they still get to do what they do? You know, yeah, it's my job to call them out, you know, especially that then since they are professing Christians, but is it gonna make a difference? I don't know, but it's not my place to know just to know that I'm supposed to do this thing because God said, you know, to do these things in scripture, and the Holy Spirit led me to open my mouth a little bit, and so I say something, but not with the expectation that something is gonna happen to them, right? But God's the judge, and evil will prosper while we're here on this earth, and you know it's laid out in Revelation that we're gonna see that, and but there will come a day when they have to answer for everything, everybody has to answer at the white throne judgment, right? For the things that we've done here, and them included. And so I I know that scripture says I have to focus on the Lord, and that's what I'm trying to do. It it does make it hard to see these things continuing to happen, but that's that's what we got to do. We gotta remember to do that every day because every day it's a struggle for me, and I'm sure it is for you too.

SPEAKER_00 4:39

Well, I mean, especially when I see it, how that affects my family. Yeah, no doubt. That that that part is something uh I for anybody who knows me, and RJ, you've known me for years, I'm a fixer, right? I whatever the task is, whatever needs to happen, that's just my personality. I'm a fixer. If you're sad, how can I make it better? If you're upset with me or you have any issues, or you're down, how can I fix it and make it better? That's just that's just the way I am. If there's an issue that needs to be solved, let me sit and think about it for 20 minutes and I'll figure out a solution. That's just been my personality. And I I remember in college, because for those of you guys don't know, I I used to be involved in college theater and even professional theater. I was a stage manager and set designer and technical director in Denver, Colorado for a lot of different productions. And one of one of my former tech directors, I I I mean, he was not like a mentor or anything, I just kind of knew of him, but people would talk about him all the time. And one of his things was basically, as a tech director, your job is to basically take the set design and make it come to life, basically. Yeah, right, yeah, and figure out how to make things work. Well, this tech director was the same way as he, if a director asked him to do something in particular, he would go, give me give me 20 minutes. He would go sit in the auditorium and just sit and look at the stage and think. And he would come up with a solution, yeah, and that's the just the way I am. And so when I see people angry, frustrated, upset, I'm the guy who always wants to fix it, you know, and that's when where I wrestle with problems, and I I get anger myself, especially in these situations where we see the injustice, we see all these horrible, disgusting things happening, and I can't do anything about it.

SPEAKER_02 6:57

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 6:58

You know, I can't go and arrest people, I can't go do any of that. So and people are like, well, you can't dwell in that. I'm like, I understand that. Like there is a temptation, like I understand that there's a temptation to be and a lot of people have done are doing this right now, they're obsessing about it, and where it consumes their life. And I agree it's gonna consume your life, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:26

Definitely, yeah, yeah, totally gotta be careful of that.

Obsession, Detachment, And Facing The Signs

SPEAKER_00 7:29

So, but we but I can't not do something, you know, to better the situation with my family. Like, even my own daughter, you know, being 14 years old, she doesn't like talking about any of this stuff because she's like, in her mind, she has no future, you know, she has no because of everything coming down the pipe is basically here to destroy her life. Yeah, and so she doesn't like talking about it because she doesn't want to think about that stuff. And I completely understand that and I sympathize with that, and but on the flip side, I want her prepared in case any of this bad stuff that could happen comes down the pipe. True enough. I don't want her blindsided like I think millions of people are going to be in the future.

SPEAKER_01 8:19

And I think some of the being blindsided is is a willingness to not look at what's around you, you know. We gotta be careful of that too. Like we can be so detached from it that we don't look at the signs that are around us, and then it's surprising. But like these signs were there, you know. There's signs of of all kinds of things going on, and if we're not willing to look and you know, admit that this is a possibility, it's gonna be a surprise. And you know, like you and I talked about, it's not a surprise, like the files that came out, all this stuff. It's not a surprise to us, you know. Definitely wasn't a it's not a surprise that that mankind can be so wicked. Because I I knew that they we have the capability of doing that, but even the events that you know, the things that they were partaking in, not a surprise, right? But we were prepared for that.

SPEAKER_00 9:15

Well, I guess one big surpr, I mean, uh I understand that we've been, you know, you and I have been kind of looking at this stuff for years, you know, and people were you know, you're just a conspiracy theorist, and blah blah blah blah. It's like it like for those who don't know, that term was coined by the elites to distract us. Just FYI.

SPEAKER_01 9:35

Just FYI, just FYI.

SPEAKER_00 9:38

But you know, that that's the whole thing is the amount of people has been blowing my mind, and people who you you you see in movies, you see in shows, you see in uh you know music, and you're like, you're you're this dark and evil? Like, how?

SPEAKER_01 9:56

Yeah, you know, you want to believe that uh most people are good, but what's now you're trying to tell us too, but it's still to lie.

SPEAKER_00 10:06

Yeah, I mean, it's just well, but I I I mean, but like we've talked about in the past episodes, of you know, there I feel like there is a difference of different types of anger, right? Correct. I think in this situation, we should be angry righteously about it because it like you said in the last episode, well, about you know, if especially if it involves children, I mean, you're children are innocent and they're innocent for a reason.

Righteous Anger Versus Sinful Anger

SPEAKER_01 10:37

Jesus said it'd be better for them to have a millstone tied around their neck and thrown into the sea than to hurt one of these children. And I I want to throw a millstone around a lot of people's necks, you know, right and and chuck them into the sea and and then some, you know. I'm I'm feeling what Jesus was saying, right? And what what many other people are thinking? Oops, sorry, about my mic.

unknown 10:58

My bad.

SPEAKER_00 11:00

But well, yeah, but the difference of is saying I want to see that justice happen because of what they're doing to the children and all this, versus when the you know, the one guy who was not basically in the the Epstein files, Charlie Kirk. Um, I have great, you know, love him or hate him, I have great respect for that man because he preached his preached the gospel, preached, you know, logic, and but the people who were celebrating after his death, I'm like, that's disgusting. And that that to me is sin. You know, that's sinful anger. That's not righteous anger.

SPEAKER_01 11:43

Even if I disagree with somebody politically or even you know, morally or I want to celebrate that kind of thing happening. Yeah, I would never do that. Like that just sounds horrible. Like anybody who's you know, I feel is is my worst enemy, I would never want to see that happen because I don't know, maybe it's because of the Holy Spirit living inside us that we want that we see there's something more, right? And we see it for what it is, that it's a battle between good and evil, between you know, God and and the evil one, and that's that's the battle. And us people we're caught we're caught in a mix, you know.

Preparing Families Without Feeding Fear

SPEAKER_00 12:27

Well, and I know people are gonna go, well, you just said that you would rather you see like to see a millstone with a bunch of people and da-da-da-da. It's like, no, that there's a difference between the righteous justification of actions versus people getting we just want to see people getting killed just to be killed because we just disagree with them. That's not that there's a complete difference, and that's I think the difference what we're seeing a lot more on the conservative movement versus the liberal movement. And if you're liberal and listening to this podcast, more than likely liberals are not listening to this podcast, but if you happen to be, you know, the that's something to think about is you know, the people who are claim to be, it's it's like for me, it's like people who claim to be Christian, but yet are okay with abortion. Yeah, you know, there's you know, they're like it's kind of like a it's an oxymoron, you know. It really is. You're literally killing God's children, you know. So I think it's it's a difference, and it and it is hard to resist the the obsession part of it because it can consume your your world and consume your life. You know, and I know we've talked about the pastor that I talked to about you know, he doesn't want it affecting his day-to-day life, and it could, you know, that's why he doesn't really follow all that. However, there's a balance that it should be struck of understanding what we need to be doing as Christian men, especially, because that's what this entire podcast that you know you and I have been recording about is what is our job as Christian men, you know, and I I want to kind of to touch on that of you know, as as as husbands, as dads, you know, it is our job to prepare our families for what could be coming.

SPEAKER_01 14:28

Yeah, and that's that's you know, the command of for scripture to be written in our hearts, and that's our job is to teach them, you know, it's that is also in scripture is the preparation for what's to come. Otherwise, why would it be there if we weren't supposed to learn about it? You know, like God wouldn't God wouldn't have even put that in there in any prophecy if it wasn't something He wanted us to know. And so it's there, so we teach and we teach our kids. And you know, even my own kids, there was a time when, and even sometimes still, they're like, I don't want to talk about that, but that's really hard. Like, but you must, and not to scare them, but to prepare them, you know. And it's like Jesus telling his disciples that he was gonna be crucified, right? He told them what was gonna happen. He didn't do that to scare them, but to prepare them for what was coming, and you know, and that's the same take we gotta do with with scripture. We we must prepare our kids, and yeah, and sometimes it involves talking about these really horrible things. Nobody wants to deal with that. I don't want to talk about those things, they they bother me, they keep me up at night, you know. It makes me sick to my stomach, but I still gotta I have to, you know, I have to talk about it.

Passion Of The Christ, Suffering, And Love

SPEAKER_00 15:49

Well, it's it's kind of like even so Megan and I have talked about, I'm sure you've seen it, you've seen the movie Passion of the Christ. Right? That's I I know it's more coming from because Mel Gibson is a Catholic, it comes from more of a Catholic standpoint, but the story still is there. Yeah, but I I applaud, like I've only watched it probably a handful of times in my lifetime. Like it's this movie's been out for 20 years, but you know, if you haven't seen it, it's graphic, like it is graphic to the uh as it's Christian gore. I mean, in a way to put it, because it shows everything what Christ went through, and it is and it's disturbing, like you know, when he was beaten with the whips with the shards of you know clay in them and stuff, and his skin ripped to shreds.

SPEAKER_01 16:48

Yeah, down to the bone.

SPEAKER_00 16:50

Yeah, like he went through a horrific like and I and Megan and I would talk about my wife, you know, season six of The Chosen is supposed to be released this year at some point. Yeah, and they haven't announced when, but this year, uh season six is the crucifixion, because they left season five off. I I think you've seen it by now, yeah, with sorry, spoiler alert, but there's not really a spoiler because you if you read the story of Christ, there's no spoiler. You know the end, but they left season five with Judas turning, you know, betraying Christ, yeah, and which is basically what the day or a day or two before his crucifixion, you know. And so with season six coming out, it's gonna be a hard watch. It I mean, I've been seeing clips of Dallas Jenkins and his the crew and the actors and everybody involved in tears. Yeah, like they're not showing, but you know what's going on, yeah, you know, and and you know, so being being able uh coming back to being able to talk about it, you know. I mean, if you get the opportunity, it's it's a little bit sensational, but it is uh or sensationalized, I should say. Um go see the Thorn if you get the opportunity to go see the Thorn musical production, it's a production about Christ's life, and but very fast-paced. But dude, I will say the actor, I mean, I know it's all makeup. I know, I mean, being a performer theater kid myself, I know how it all works, but I will tell you when I went and saw the thorn, yeah, I mean, during the crucifixion scene, I broke down crying.

SPEAKER_01 18:45

Yes, because you realize, like, wow, that's what Jesus decided to do that he chose to, and for me, for everyone here, for everyone everywhere, he did that for us, and he knew what was coming, and that's just like it it makes me sad, but I feel loved, you know, right? I feel I feel the most love that I could ever feel.

SPEAKER_00 19:11

Um, and if you think about it though, he had to do it to that level. For as humans, we don't understand spiritual torture, we don't really understand. We have that's why it bothers us when we see torture situations. That's why it bothers us to see blood and guts and gore and all that, yeah. And because that's something that we can relate to is a way to put it. Yeah, you know, so I mean, just throwing yourself in Christ's shoes for two seconds, man. Like, it's it's it's upsetting, it really is.

SPEAKER_01 19:56

But it's a worthwhile to see, honestly.

God’s Timeline, Delay, And Eternal Justice

SPEAKER_00 19:59

Yeah, just for prepare. If you watch if you watch Passion of the Christ, and I'm excited to see he's coming out with Mel Gibson's coming out with what is it, is it what is it calling it? Revelation or something like that. It's basically it's the time right after like the 40 days that Christ walked the earth.

SPEAKER_02 20:19

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:21

Um, which I'm excited to see that whenever that or if that even comes out, but he's talked about it. But if you get the opportunity to see Passion of the Christ, I'm trying to convince the family to watch it over Easter coming up in the next month or two. But it's it's a hard watch. I'm yeah, it's nothing to pass by it. It's a hard, hard watch. I saw it in theaters when it came out. Yep, me too. It was it's rough, definitely rough.

SPEAKER_01 20:56

You know, the heart behind it.

SPEAKER_00 20:57

And well, they even how even Judas was tortured.

SPEAKER_01 21:01

Yeah, oh yeah, that was that was wild. But really, like I love that movie for the production of it and what happened to Jim Cavizel and the guy that played oh my gosh, what was it, Barabbas? The guy that played Barabbas saw something different, even in Jim Cavizel, as he's standing there with the makeup on, bloody as their crowds are saying, We want Barabbas, and he's he's walking by him. There's a he gives a double take. Like he looks at him twice. That wasn't in the script. That was that actor. Yeah, he will talk about how what he saw changed him. Just seeing what he saw in Jim Cavizal, it really, it really changed him. And you know, God was working through that film, even though, yeah, okay, it doesn't follow scripture, you know, it it follows these other traditions, you know. But the heart behind it, like it was evident. You know? For sure.

SPEAKER_00 22:03

Yeah. And so that's why I like it's it's just interesting to see it's hard to see when the wicked are getting their way. And it's it's very hard. But the one thing in my notes here, a couple things we gotta realize is you know, and it's hard. It is so difficult. We have to go off of God's timeline, not ours. Indeed. A couple of the notes I have is delay is not approval.

SPEAKER_01 22:37

Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_00 22:38

Yeah, you know, judgment may be earthly or eternal. Yeah. But eternal justice is unavoidable. Always. And you know, I'll I'll admit, as a Christian, that's that's one thing that it does scare me because of all my sins. Like, you know, we've all done bad things, whether you know, as minor as I stole a candy bar, to some people have committed adultery, to cheating, to murder, to you name it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:09

I mean and yeah, well we'll have to we'll have to give an account for that. But then what's great is like scripture says, but Jesus says, but wait, he's written here. He's his name is here. So I've I've paid that already, right? Like he doesn't have to pay that punishment. I already did it. Like that's just that's what we gotta share with everybody. Like that's the hope that's within us. Not that we're gonna be healthy, wealthy, or whatever, or that you know, yeah, we're never we may never see people come to justice. We may never see anybody in these Epstein files come to justice, you know. But to know that our names are written and that we are loved and cared for, uh, that's the thing that we need to be sharing. That's the only thing that we can rely on, right? We can't rely on earthly justice, anything like that, but we can rely on you know, God's justice and conversely, his mercy, right?

Vengeance Is God’s, Courage Is Ours

SPEAKER_00 24:12

Well, God says in so Romans 12 19, he says, Beloved, ne well, I mean, this is I think Christ saying it, but never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of god, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord. Yeah, you know, so because I'm trying to remember it's uh I'm sorry, go ahead. I'm trying to it was Paul who wrote the book of Romans. Yes, and so this is his letter to the Romans, but talking about Christ is saying, I vengeance is his, not ours.

SPEAKER_01 24:52

Right, and it doesn't mean say nothing, never do anything, right? Right, it's vengeance is something totally different than standing up for the truth, right? Many people, and even there are people in religious leadership positions, I will say that, who will use that verse to say that we should say or do nothing. Like if somebody messes up, you know, that's not your place to say anything because that's God's to judge. But how do you get around other parts in the scripture that say that we are supposed to? And because it's not vengeance, like me pointing out somebody who is a religious leader, you know, if I'm pointing out their sin and unrepentant sin, right? It's not me being vengeant, vengeful, you know, that's me trying to be kind and loving to them and pointing out something that's so that they can flee from it, right? So that they can, you know, no longer be stuck in that. And that's not what is saying there, right? Like, yeah, you know, I can't condemn Victor Marx for what he did to some people because yes, in that moment he was trying to save somebody, and his life was threatened, right? He didn't he didn't go out to I'm going to go kill bad guys. I'm going no, he said, I'm going to go save these people by any means. By any means necessary. If these people get in my way, if they try to hurt me, well, I'm going to make sure that I come out on top, you know? Right. But you know, it's that wasn't vengeance at all. You know, that was that was him being a shepherd. That's if you want to know what a true shepherd is, that's a shepherd, right? They're willing to put lay down their life for the people who can't defend themselves, who can't, you know, say anything or do anything about their situation. And and that's what we're called to do, right? So yes, vengeance is his, but we're not called to sit around and you know, wait for something else to happen.

Fatherhood, Duty, And Daily Faithfulness

SPEAKER_00 27:00

Yeah, it's it's it it's gonna be interesting to see how all of this plays out with what we're seeing right now. But oh yeah, the biggest things you know, as a takeaway for this episode, you know, it just you have to believe God's wrath and justice will be done. Yeah, it just won't be necessarily in the time that you hope it will be. Yeah, I mean, and that goes for anything, that goes for any injustice or anything that goes around, you know. Um, you know, RJ and I have dealt with you know everything, a bunch of different situations, and one big one that we share together is church hurt and all this, you know, and men that I once called brothers, yeah, you know, I've confronted, but nothing came out of it, you know, and know that you know it sucks. And there are people with you and men who understand it, you know, and for the men out there that you know we we we understand where your frustrations come from and we're right there with you. But just you gotta you gotta trust in the Lord no matter what. You've gotta still guide your guide your wife, guide your family, guide your kids, and believe that even if you don't see it, that justice will happen in the future.

SPEAKER_01 28:26

Yeah, yeah. It's gonna be God's justice, absolutely 100%. And I love what you said. We still have a job to do as fathers, as men, you know. We can't fight all the time, you know. We have to we have to be there for our kids and teach them and and love them, and you know, we really we've got to be everything that we're supposed to be, and we can't just be one thing, right?

SPEAKER_00 28:49

Right.

SPEAKER_01 28:50

So well said, sir.

Community, Guests, And Resources Plug

SPEAKER_00 28:53

But well, thank you so much, RJ. I have I enjoyed this episode, and we'll continue the conversation. We're actually gonna be hopefully having a few guests coming in this the near future to kind of give their perspectives. We have I have a buddy of mine who's a relatively new Christian getting married, which is cool. And another buddy of mine that lives in in my area that he he's I think he's in the same generate journey as we are, is trying to find their community. And so it'll be great to get their perspectives and talk about kind of what's been going on and and kind of learn more from other people, you know, to hear other men's perspectives on what they're dealing with as well. So we're very much looking forward to that. So well, thank you so much, RJ. I appreciate it, brother. And uh if you guys get a chance, I'm gonna plug it real quick right here. If I can pull it up, where is it? I know that we uh it deleted our other our other chat, so I gotta pull it up in a different hang on, I got it. If you get a chance to if you need some help editing your books and then some, there's a ton of different services and pricing and everything going on. Check out repriseeditorial.com. That's repriseeditorial.com. Check out Beck and RJ's new business and website, and they can help you out with your editorial needs. But thank you so much. I look you'll have to you'll have to send me one of your bookmarks when you get them done.

SPEAKER_01 30:29

I will, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 30:30

Are you gonna sell them on your website or anything?

SPEAKER_01 30:33

Probably on the website, probably do an Etsy store. But we're also gonna with Becca's books, like when we do this book fair, they're gonna be we're gonna be giving away, you know, with books that people buy, but also just selling them outright there too.

SPEAKER_00 30:48

So where where where can you find Becca's books?

SPEAKER_01 30:52

Becca's books. You can actually go to her website. She's on she's on lots of different platforms too. She's on Amazon. So if you look for Rebecca Tyne McCamey, spelled biblically R-E-B-E-K-A-H, T Y-N-E, and then my last name, M-C-K-A-M-I-E. You will find uh several of her books there. But you can also go to her website, it's Rebecca Tine. Rebecca Tyne McCamey.com. Sorry, it just changed a little bit. I was looking, I was looking at her because she's yes, the whole thing. But you can see her books are there too. It's kind of it's nice because all her books are there and and has you can see who she is and everything.

SPEAKER_00 31:34

So definitely check it out too. Yeah, well, definitely check out her books, check out the website, and we will talk to you guys on the next episode. Thank you so much, RJ. And I look forward to the the future ones coming up. Hopefully we get the guys on there. Yep. All right. You guys have a wonderful day and God bless.