The Journey of Yes with Brenda Palmer
What does it really cost to say yes to God?
The Journey of Yes with Brenda Palmer is a Christian podcast about what happens when faith moves beyond what we believe and starts shaping how we actually live.
Each episode features honest conversations about radical obedience: the call that didn’t make sense, the step that required sacrifice, the season nobody applauded, and what was discovered on the other side of saying yes.
Brenda Palmer, author of The Journey of Yes: The Everyday Adventure of Radical Obedience, minister, and faith-based creator, sits down with leaders, creatives, couples, entrepreneurs, and everyday believers to unpack the real stories behind their obedience to God.
Together, we’re talking faith, calling, purpose, relationships, entrepreneurship, ministry, spiritual growth, and what it looks like to follow Jesus when obedience actually costs you something. Because saying yes to God isn’t always easy, but it’s always an invitation to know Him more.
🎙️ New Season: A Radical Yes | Streaming 8.28.26
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Follow Brenda: @iambrendapalmer | iambrendapalmer.com
The Journey of Yes with Brenda Palmer
A Proper Perspective w/ Devon Franklin
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Sometimes we allow life to hinder us to live free all while sleeping on ourselves and forgetting that we are one of one. We are unique and we have to start regarding ourselves as the fearfully and wonderfully made creation we are.
This week join Brenda Palmer as she sits down with her big brother Devon Franklin and talk all things that will help us develop the proper perspective of our journey in life.
Hey guys, welcome to Life in Perspective. I'm your host, Brenda Palmer, and here we talk everyday life through the lens of faith. I am super excited about today's guest. He's like my big brother, but he's also been on like the list of people I just admire so much. I'm excited to have author, producer, he doesn't like to be called pastor, uh, minister of the gospel, uh, my big brother Devon Franklin. What's going on?
SPEAKER_04I'm great. Thank you for having me. So glad to be here.
SPEAKER_00I'm excited to have you. Okay, I have to share this story. I shared it with you, but I gotta share with the audience just like what this moment means for me. So 2013, I'm sitting in my first day of film school. They ask us, who in the industry would you like want to pattern your career after? I say Ava DuVernay and Devon Franklin. I had just finished Produced by Faith before I started film school at Syracuse. And I the funny thing is, even though I said that, I never considered the preaching part. I was like, nah, I don't want that part. But I loved how you worked in Hollywood, but were also very, very bold about your faith. Like nobody has to guess, like we know like Devon is a believer. And so the fact that I actually get to experience the things that I said in that moment has been super, super crazy. And then the fact that I actually know you is even more crazy because at the time I did not. Right. That's God. It's so God. So I'm like, this is like for sure for me a full circle moment. 100%.
SPEAKER_04Man, I love it. Thank you. I love it. You're welcome. You're welcome. Of course, of course. I'm happy to do it and proud of you.
SPEAKER_00No, I love it. Okay, so man, we talk everyday life in faith. We've seen you kind of modern like faith in your career. I noticed that you have a tattoo on your arm. It says, live free.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00What does that mean to you? What is it? What does it mean to live free?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, The Live Free was uh based upon my last um hardcover book. And it was basically about how to, you know, manage expectations. And so often, you know, we have expectations of ourselves or others that are unspoken. And so live free is like you can really live free when you are clear on what your expectations are. So for me, it was just a reminder, yeah, you know, of like, okay, don't have any unspoken expectations. Uh make sure if I'm expecting something, to ask the question, hey, can I expect this of you and to get the confirmation? And then there's accountability.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04Uh, but prior to that, it's hard to expect something of someone that they don't know that they are being expected to do or to deliver or to be. So this is really about, you know, reminding me to set the expectations.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And uh and in the process, you know, to live free, to not be afraid to explore, to not be afraid to be open, to not be afraid to say, I don't know. Right? Like, I don't know.
SPEAKER_01There's things I don't know. Okay.
SPEAKER_04Can I live free with the knowledge of understanding that there's certain things I'm still discovering, certain things I'm still feeling figuring out. So that's just a reminder to, you know, not get trapped or caught in any sort of you know limited thinking, uh and to always, you know, live free.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. No, I love that. I okay, I want to go to the part about managing expectations though that you sometimes feel like other people have of you. You know, like you're a public figure, essentially. Um, and I don't know, like I feel like sometimes when you are a public figure of faith, you are always expected to respond in faith, even when sometimes that's not the first response. Like, how do you navigate that? Like, how do you navigate your human experience um when faith isn't the first option for you?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, you know, it's um I don't know, it's an interesting question. I I I don't I don't think I've ever felt the pull or the conflict of like, oh, I see something that happens or someone that says something, and how I would resp want to respond is different than how I would respond because of you know who I am, right? I never really felt that. Um for me, you know, I have been in Hollywood since I was 18 years old. So, you know, we're going on 28 years.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04And and as a result of seeing so much, I understand that, you know, when you are in the spotlight, there's a lot that comes with that. Uh and that isn't a burden, you know, it just comes with the territory.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04So when I've had, you know, situations like that or you know, certain things have been said, I haven't really felt the conflict of like, oh, as a man I'd like to respond like this, but as a man of God, I'm being required to respond like that. Uh, I've never really experienced that. You know, I usually kind of look at something and and either I will respond the way I feel that feels authentic, or I won't, you know, and just say, all right, well, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna engage in that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_04But I don't think that that's informed necessarily by a pub my perception of a public perception of myself. I think it's just more informed by what's true for me and how I feel is the best way to handle it, if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, I actually think that speaks a lot about your character because it means that for me, what I'm hearing is you say, like, I'm one in the same. Yeah, in a sense, like I never have to navigate, um, okay, this is the person they think I am, versus like how I would. So I think that like it's and I I love that you said it, like, man, it seems kind of weird, but it's not weird. There are there are some people who respond differently um because of the persona they've created doesn't necessarily align with who they are. And so I think, but I think the other thing is too, like, I think for me, where I've seen the conflict a little bit is I went from being a person that nobody cares what I have to say to people carrying what I have to say. Okay. And so then I think that makes me think twice because just because like I am a natural, like, I just say how I feel.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But now I carry the weight of somebody, I license people to do things based off what I say. So it's not a necessarily like an inauthentic response. I understand the responsibility of my response. That like, if Brenda says this, somebody's gonna say, Well, Brenda said. And so like I just always want to make sure that aligns with um not even like my persona, but like it aligns with what God has entrusted to me to steward. So I kind of look of it, look at it as more of like a stewardship thing. But I love that you said that because you like, nah, it's gonna always be the same.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, because um, you know, it's it in my experience, you know, in navigating, you know, these waters of you know being in the public and to your point, you know, people saying, Oh, you know, Devon said this, Pastor Brendan said that. In my experience with that, you know, one of the the challenges is that if I am overly calculating what I think someone will say or respond, then it kind of takes me out of what's true. You know, and and there are certain ways to respond to things that or say things where, you know, you're you're not demeaning someone or you're not, you know, putting someone down or whatever that might be. But at the end of the day, if I have an overemphasis on how this is going to be considered, then sometimes it can make me offer an inauthentic response to whatever it might be. So, you know, when I'm thinking about what I'm putting in the world or, you know, what I say, you know, I I'm not I'm not overly cautious about it. You know, like it's it's definitely like a thought. I mean, you know, not everything that I think or not everything uh that I've experienced needs to be discussed publicly. For sure. Um, but I also try not, I try to have freedom in expressing who I am and what I'm about and and the things that I may want to respond to or how I might want to respond without allowing, because see, the challenge is again, going back to the question, right? So it's like, okay, if I am trying to manage my response by managing someone's expectation of me, that's really difficult. It's really because because in essence, we're managing, we're trying to manage the mindset of people we don't even know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, or people that don't know us. They don't know us.
SPEAKER_04So it's like again, I'm not saying, you know, if you are, if God has given you the spotlight or put you in the public eye that you shouldn't be mindful of that, of course, can be responsibility. But it can't control you, you know. It's like, okay, got it. I understand that there may be a certain expectation, and I get that. And if my truth aligns with that expectation, great, but there may be times where it doesn't. And there may be times I may have to say things or do things that others may not agree with in that moment, and that comes with the territory, and that's okay.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, that's really good. That makes sense. You know, I'm always trying to get a tidbit for myself. No, I love that. Okay, so one of one, that has kind of been, I don't want to call it your brand, but that's kind of been your messaging, you know, over the course of, I don't know, the last year, yeah, the last year or so. And um kind of walk us through what that means. What does it mean to be one of one?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, you know, it means to be rare, you know, it means to be distinctive. It means to, you know, when you're one of one, it's like, man, you don't only want. You only want to like you. You and you, man, listen, you know, if you like Jordan's or you like a Bosqui eye man, getting that one of one, that means, woo, that's expensive. And it's worth a lot. And that's really what it comes down to, self-worth. Because so often, you know, it's like, oh, especially in a Christian culture, it's like, well, you're worth something when you're with someone. Right? Or you're worth more when you're with someone. And I fundamentally don't believe that's true.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Your life can be enhanced, certainly, you know, if you are in a couple or you have the right relationship or the right marriage, cool. But if you're if you don't, that doesn't diminish your value.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And so it really is a mantra for self-worth. And when I say I'm one of one, it reminds me that not only am I worthy, but I'm also uh at a level of self-worth that I deserve the best and to be treated the best, to be treated, you know, in a way that is at the level of my worth. And so often, you know, in my experience, you know, what I realized is like, oh, I really didn't know what it meant to be single until I got divorced. You know, I was like, oh, this is what it means to be single. Like, oh, okay. You know, meaning that, you know, the the status of being single, the the couple is only as strong as the two singles that make up the couple. And if I'm looking for the couple to be in a couple, to do work for me that I'm not doing as a single, I actually make the couple weaker when I get in the couple.
SPEAKER_03For sure.
SPEAKER_04Because I'm not bringing my healed self to the or the self of me working on who I am and understanding my worth, I'm not bringing that to the couple. So if I buy into the idea that I'll be worth more if I'm with someone, I actually give up my power to that person. And in my experience, you're probably gonna end up being manipulated because the other person may not even do it consciously.
SPEAKER_00It's what you've submitted just to do.
SPEAKER_04Completely, right? It's like, oh, if you treat someone as your source of happiness, of joy, of fulfillment, of peace, or whatever that may be, that person knows they're not equipped to provide all of that to you. So in some way, they it inadvertently will take advantage of you. So part of being one of one is to understand that I am as a single, I am worthy, I am powerful, I am love, I am loved, I can look in the mirror and love who looks back at me. You know, I don't need to be with someone to feel those things. I am the keeper of my happiness, so that when I am with someone, I have something to bring.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And what I'm bringing is the fullness of who I am, which fundamentally is going to make the relationship or the couple better. So that's what one of one means. It's really a mantra of self-worth. Because when we are aware of who we are, it will help clarify every situation in our life. We'll be able to look at something and say, oh, why am I in why am I allowing this?
SPEAKER_00Because I'm one of one.
SPEAKER_04I'm one of one, right? I'm one of one. But if you don't know that, you will allow things in your life that are less than your worth.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And so when I know my worth, it's like, no, I'm not gonna tolerate that. I'm not gonna let someone deal with me casually. I'm not gonna let someone, you know, handle me that way. No, because I know who I am.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And that's and that's that's a powerful statement. And that's where, you know, that's really what it means.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, I first of all, it, first of all, thank you. Um, because it's it's like odd that it's coming from a man to be saying that. And the only reason I say that is because I feel like we, I think as women, we feel that, right? Like we are not worthy until we are married. I think it is almost indoctrinated in us as we grow up in church. We are taught to pursue marriage, which is odd because life is so much more than that. But then it becomes an idol. And to your point, when I've been like taught that you're not really nothing until you have a husband. It it's crazy. Like, it's what happens to me now, no matter where I go, like if I'm preaching somewhere and I sit down and get to talk with people, they're like, So are you dating? Like, you know, do you want to be married? Right. It's like, I mean, I'm okay with that question, but there is more to life than that. And it, but it does create like this stigma that like I'm never gonna be enough until I'm with someone, or it's not gonna matter. And so I think the messaging behind that, I think that's why people caught on to it so much, right? Is because we need someone saying the opposite of. It's not saying that marriage is not, you know, valuable, it's that also there is value in your singleness. Yeah, there is something to like there, I live a great life, you know what I'm saying? Like, and not to say that I don't want to be married because I do, but my life doesn't start at the point of marriage. Like I can live life before that. And to your point about settling, I think if we don't recognize who we are and what we carry and what we bring to the table, we'll settle in life, period. Not just in relationships, like not just in romantic relationships, but also friendships. Our people don't talk enough about the abuse that happens in friendships. Like friends be out here taking advantage and abusing just as much as you like, man. I'm not, it's not even a romantic relationship, and I'm dealing with a lot. So um, how does one I mean, because you kind of this became your messaging after a divorce?
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So how does one go from something ending that you'd been in for so long to now recognizing your worth? And or does recognizing your worth help you transition out of that situation?
SPEAKER_04Well, it's like one has nothing to do with the other, and then one has everything to do with the other, right? So, you know, it's not that you know, recognizing my worth then, you know, necessarily help the transition. You know, if anything, it was not even so much for me about not knowing my worth. Okay, you know, it was after the marriage, because so much of you know who people know me to be was related to my marriage. For sure. So it really had nothing to do with the marriage. It had to do with, okay, now that that's not a part of my story.
SPEAKER_01Who am I?
SPEAKER_04Exactly. Exactly. Now that I'm I don't have that association as a husband, now, you know, what is that? Or that title, not an association, that that title, you know, of as a husband, okay, you know, who am I? What am I? What am I about? So it was really about like saying, Oh, I am still worthy, I still have self-worth regardless to my you know, relationship status or my marital status. And so it was about that revelation that, oh, okay, even though I've gone through that, that doesn't diminish my worth. Yeah. You know, I'm still valuable, I still have a lot to offer, I still am who God created me to be. And then that's what got me thinking, like, wow, we do tether so much of our self-esteem, our worth to who we're with. Yeah. And and that, in that part of our culture, you know, our broader culture and our church culture, you know, I think is doing a lot of damage to uh in to singles, to those in relationships and those in marriage. Because we take, especially as you talked about, you know, you travel in the country and everybody's, you know, wanting to know, are you dating, are you married, and all that. And that and that's that's fine, right? But on some level, the implication is there's something wrong if you're not.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_04And and that's actually not true. And I think that in our culture, what happens is everybody, you know, wants to uh put the pressure and pushing people into marriage, but there really aren't any tips and tools on one, how to be single, and then two, how to be married, and then three, if it doesn't work, how to handle divorce.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04You know, that was one of the things that I noticed, you know, in in the church. It's like, okay, everybody's like, hey, get married, it's great. And then when you're married, you say, yeah, what are we supposed to do? Yeah, but but but it was but it's so interesting. It's like, you know, being married, you know, it's almost like in the church culture, it absolutely opens up other doors. You know, you get more invitations, you get more attention, people are like, oh, come do this, come do this, come do that. But then when you get divorced, it's like they'll call you to say, hey, so sorry, but that's it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, you're not getting it.
SPEAKER_04I mean, that's it, you know? And and I think that that that is really unfortunate. It kind of reminds me, you know, sometimes of like, you know, when uh certain how certain veterans feel when they come back from war. You know, it's like, okay, there was a massive effort to recruit people to be a part of, you know, the army or or the air, the armed force, I mean the air force or you know, Marines, whatnot. And then, but when they come back from war, you know, some veterans feel like the country doesn't really take care of them. Uh and I feel like, you know, when it comes to church culture, you know, those that have gone through heartbreak, those that have gone through divorce, the church doesn't really care for those individuals. You know, and so for me, part of me as a man, you know, having this message of one-on-one, it's a message of care. You know, it's a message to say, you know, no matter where you are in your relationship status, you know, single, in a couple, divorced, you're still worthy.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04You're still worthy. And and resist the temptation to place your worth in who you're with.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Right?
SPEAKER_00Um, yeah, and I think, or what you do. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Because I think absolutely like when I hear you talking about that, I was literally just talking to a friend, like, man, we don't realize how much of our identity is in a thing until we don't have to think anymore. That's right. And then it's like, oh, I was whatever position you held, you get fired from that job, or even if you walk away from it, it takes time to figure out what do I do without this thing. And so I I completely agree with that. I also wonder when we talk about the church and divorce, I wonder if they just don't know what to do with it. You know what I'm saying? Like, because if we're always pushing marriage, when it ends, it feels like a failure. And not just a failure for the couple, but like the body of Christ too. So I think I think it's less about they don't know, I just think they just don't know what to do with it, right? Because then it's like, if we embrace it, it's like we're okaying divorce. And then if we platform it, it's like, well, we don't know like the implications of things that went on, but it's like, I think that the church doesn't really know what to do with divorce. But I also think, to your point, we put a lot of weight on getting married, but we don't, there aren't like a lot of tools for within the marriage, how to navigate. Nobody talks. I don't really see a lot of couples saying, hey, we didn't like each other.
SPEAKER_03You know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_00Like, there aren't honest conversations so that before I make the decision to get married, I recognize like, hey, this isn't gonna just be the wedding that we spent all of this money on. Like, I actually have to like this person somewhat. And I think the pandemic taught us a lot. It's like, ah, I don't, I don't even like you. So I gotta get out of this. So I think like I appreciate the message because I think like even for the people that are like watching this, like understanding how to not define yourself by the person you're with or not defining yourself by not being with the person. Because sometimes that makes you feel like, oh well, like nobody's hitting my DMs. I'm not getting no swipes on Tinder. Like what is happening? And then we begin to like, then it becomes like about us. And it's like, nah, maybe it's just not the season for that. Um, what are some practical steps in being able to discover your worth, apart from whether it's what you do or who you're with?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, you know, uh so much of that self-worth has a lot to do with your self-talk. So the first thing is to really take authority over the self-talk. Because a lot of times the way we talk to ourselves is worse than we would allow someone to talk to us. So it's really hard for me to feel worthy. It's really hard for me to have a high self-esteem if that inner voice is really negative. And a lot of times that inner voice comes from when we were a child, right? Whatever those messages were, whatever the insecurities were, you know, those tapes get played. And so you first gotta take authority there. You gotta really say, hey, I gotta stop talking to myself this way. I have to talk to myself in a loving way, I gotta talk to myself in an encouraging way. I've gotta talk to myself in a way that is that really helps lift my spirit and reminds me of who I am. And it's not that voice of you're not, you're not good enough and what's wrong with you, and all of those things because it's that inner voice that truly determines if we can really embrace our self worth or not.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_04The other thing that's very important affirmations. You know, really start affirming who you are. This is who I am. I am this, I am that. You know, really getting those affirmations almost like vitamins. You know, you take your vitamins every day, you take the affirmations every day. Why? Because whatever, if there are detrimental. Instrumental tapes that are playing in in your mind, they have to be reprogrammed. And how do you reprogram it through repetition? So it's like, okay, how do you get strong in the gym? Through repetition, you got to keep going, you got to stay consistent, you got to keep lifting, you got to keep running. Oh, okay. And then over time, you get stronger. And that's the same way. You know, when you when you know you're one of one and you're trying to increase your self-worth, you gotta have those affirmations. And then the other part is you have to really look at your life. You know, who are who's in your circle?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04You know, who are the people that, you know, bring you down, who are the people that build you up, who are the people that have encouraging conversations or encouraging words, who are those that have discouraging words. And you may have to rearrange your circle, you know, to align with your worth. The other thing that's very important is learning the power of saying no. Because that no, that when we say a lot of yeses in my experience, it's because we're not sure of our worth.
SPEAKER_00That's true. Because you, yes, is your yes is expensive.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. It is. It is. But when I can, when you can say no, it's because I, well, I know what I'm worth. And what I mean by that doesn't mean that you're, you know, you're saying I'm good too good for this or that. You're saying, you know, that's not the that's how I want to spend my time. I know, I don't feel God is calling me to do that. No, that's not exactly what I feel I'm ready to do yet. Taking control of your no is truly a powerful sign of how much we feel good about ourselves or not.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Because sometimes we feel like, well, I don't want to disappoint anyone. So then I'm gonna overextend myself, I'm gonna over give these yeses, and then I'm gonna be on the hook to deliver whatever the yes was, and I'm doing things for others that I that was not even my spirit to do. But then we are the ones that pay for it. Because we're the ones that are exhausted, burnt out, yeah, frustrated, all of those things. So when I have a strong sense of self-worth, I gotta control my no better. You know, so those are some tips and tools on how to really get to the core of self-worth.
SPEAKER_00No, that's it's it's it is the I am learning the power of no. Yes. Because uh-uh, I can't, I can't do it no more. And it is, it is, I but it's interesting because I would have never connected that to words, but that's true.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um because I am I literally threaded the other day like, yes, it's expensive. It's gonna cost you something. Time is the only thing you spend that you can never get back. So I completely understand that. Um man, direct me. You said you said that no, just for me. Just for you. Yes, it was just for me. Um, okay, so in sharing um in some of your messages for one of one, um, you talk a lot about like you lost a lot back to back.
SPEAKER_01Sure.
SPEAKER_00And um I wanna I wanna dive into that a little bit for two reasons. I want to dive into how does one get out of that space like without giving up. You know, because back to like sometimes we can handle one big blow, but then like, okay, relationships and job and family, like, which is sometimes that is people's reality. It's like they're losing, losing, losing. How does one hold on to their faith when life is completely contradicting what they believe?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, well, here is the thing, right? So we create a picture of what we think it's supposed to look like, and it meaning our life. And if I have enough faith, and if I, you know, serve God, and if I, you know, am a good Christian and I show up every you know weekend, I'm giving an honest tithe. We believe that this is there's a certain picture that our life is supposed to look like.
SPEAKER_00I don't know where we got that from.
SPEAKER_04Where do we get it from?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Where do we get it from? Scripture says the rain falls on the just and the unjust. Period. Scripture also says if you suffer me, suffer with me, you're gonna reign with me. So what I had to do is I had to, I didn't just go through a a divorce from my marriage. I had to divorce myself from the picture of what I thought my life was supposed to be. So in that process, you know, I say, okay, God, you clearly are taking things away, you know, from my deal of Paramount, losing that, and having to fire employees, and not fire, but let employ layoff employees, you know, losing my office space, uh, you know, losing the the place that I was staying in and you know, living in a hotel for some time, you know, all of these things. So my response was like, okay, God is painting a new picture.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04So my response is I cannot do demand of God that it look a certain way. I have to surrender to what he wants to do. And if all of these things need to go for him to paint the picture he wants to paint in my life, then so be it. So that process is one of full surrender, full commitment to what he's doing. And part of that is just allowing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Right?
SPEAKER_04It's like, okay, these things are going. Okay, all right. I just have to just wait until things settle and then begin the rebuilding process. And the most important thing that I learned through this is again, I think sometimes, you know, in our in our church culture, we we are selling a bill of goods. That's just not true. Not true. It's not true. And and I think as a result, if when you have faith and things don't work out, then we think something's wrong with our faith. Like, well, I didn't believe hardly. Or God ain't God isn't who he says. No, but but God's in all of it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and he never said those things that y'all saying he said. Right.
SPEAKER_04You know, so so for me, I had to say, oh, okay, God, I I had my plan, I had my ideas, and and clearly those ideas and plans took me to a point, and now God's trying to do something different. Yeah, and God's trying to do something new. So my response to that was surrender.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Not my will, but thine be done.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And through the process, learning that the thing I think that that changed for me through this whole all the stuff that I went through and have gone through, it's really empathy. Because, you know, being a minister and preaching, and you know, I've been preaching since I was 15 and you know, been in the church my whole life, it is very easy to be covertly self-righteous. It's very easy. You know, to to you don't even realize like, you know, that self-righteousness that seeps in and your thought process and certain things you say or how you say certain things. And for me, I certainly was guilty of that. And going through all of the losses, what it did is it brought me empathy.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04We are spirit and flesh. And for whatever reason, and I don't need I'm not gonna sit here and profess to understand the meaning, full meaning of life, and why God needed us as spirits to have this flesh experience, but he did. And in that, there's gotta be empathy. Yeah, there's gotta be empathy. This life, this walk in life is not easy. And no matter how faithful you want to be, we're still flesh. Yeah, and at times we will stumble and at times we will fall. And empathy says, I know what it's like when I fell. So I'm gonna offer that to you when you fall.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And we are gonna get up together and we're gonna keep walking. I'm not gonna condemn you because you fail. I'm not gonna judge you. I'm gonna offer a hand. And so for me, empathy is what came out of the losses for me to be able to say, oh wow, right? Like I thought I had I knew it all.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04I thought I didn't knew it all. I thought I knew everything. You know, wrote a book about, oh, here's how you find the love of your life and all that stuff. And it doesn't mean that the principles in the book don't work, they do work. But my point is from a place of self-righteousness, I thought I had it figured out until I didn't.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04So my response to that was empathy. My response to that was humility.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And my spot response to that was curiosity. Okay, God, like maybe I was too attached to what I wanted and how I wanted it. Let me be more curious, God, about what your plan is for my life.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04What do you want this new picture to look like? What do you want my life to look like? And as I have surrendered that and had empathy and practiced, you know, humility, he then has begun to add these things back to my life in a very different and unique way. And in a way that is very fulfilling, in a way that I'm saying, oh, okay, God, now I can see how the picture's coming into play. But it really came from just allowing myself to be human and to experience the fullness of what I was going through. And that's another thing. I think sometimes, you know, we will we don't want to feel unless it's a good feeling.
SPEAKER_03We don't want to feel.
SPEAKER_04We don't want to feel the pain, we don't want to feel the shame, we don't want to feel the guilt.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_04We don't want to feel the frustration, we don't want to feel the anxiety, or the hurt, or the hurt. We don't want to feel it. We don't want to feel it. So then what happens? If we don't feel we cannot heal.
SPEAKER_01It's true.
SPEAKER_04Period. The only thing that we can heal are the things that we're feeling. And when we don't want to feel, then we will look to things to keep us from feeling. And sometimes that's even going to church. And I'm not knocking church. I love church. I'm there. But I'm saying sometimes we go to church to keep us from feeling. But God is saying, no, no, no, no. Even when you go to church, don't be afraid to feel what you feel. So if you feel upset, before you try to get out of that feeling, acknowledge, well, why am I upset? What's bothering me? Oh, this is what's bothering me.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04You know, I'm feeling resentment from this, or I feel overlooked from that. Okay, once I get down to how I feel, then God can get in there and start rearranging or healing whatever that is. But so often we're not teaching people to feel. Yeah. We just say, you know, believe hard enough and then have enough faith and all of that. And don't get me wrong, those things do work in their in the context of certain situations. But what I feel is that we as people gotta feel.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04We gotta be able to say, okay, this is where I'm at.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And then when I'm in church and I'm in touch with my feeling, then God can do amazing work.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04But if I come to church, you gotta be honest. I gotta be honest. I gotta be honest. Like, hey, this, hey, I'm not feeling great today. That's why every time I get up to speak, I first tap in. Hey, you know, hey, how you feeling? You know, hey, God woke you up today. Like, I know I know you got problems. That's okay. We can deal with those problems. But also let's give some praise too, right? Because when I can tap in and say, ooh, yeah, I'm going through something. And from that place, even a broken place, offering a praise, oh, God loves when we give a sacrifice.
SPEAKER_00For sure.
SPEAKER_04But it comes from acknowledging those feelings. So anyway, that's a long answer to your question.
SPEAKER_00No, no, it's so real. I'm glad you went on the feeling thing. Because I think, man, we I feel like even growing up, you you don't see people be really honest about their feelings. It's like, no, we need to talk, you need to feel. You need to say, hey, today, God, I'm mad at you. Like, you need to just be honest. So I love that you said that. And I think I also always say, like, I feel like the the hard times that we go through in life are to remind us of our need for God. Because you mentioned the self-righteousness, righteous part, is like we go on and sometimes we think we are God. And we like, oh, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do this. I got it. We wanna be that in people's lives. And then the moment we fall, it's like, oh, I'm actually not invincible. I actually do need God to survive this. And I think too, like getting to a place where I feel like I live a life where I lose things often. I'm like, all right, God, this is yours. Like I live, I just live open-handed because I'm like, I'm even gonna get comfortable with it because I know in a minute you're gonna ask me for it. And so I think just being okay with even the things that I feel like I've lost, if he never gives them back, like learning another layer of who he is is enough.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_00And being okay with that, and I think using everything as um a lesson is like, man, I I didn't see this. I love when you talked about the picture. Because I think if we started at the beginning, even though this is my picture, God, what does your picture look like in comparison to mine? So I don't end up disappointed on the other side. Because I feel like we could manage some of the heartbreak if we invited him in in the beginning and not at the end. And he's like, I never even But here but here's the thing let's just go down that line for a moment.
SPEAKER_04Even if you invite him in.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Even if he ordained it. Maybe it was just for a season. Maybe it was just for a reason.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And this is this is why Scripture says his ways are not our ways. Higher than the human thought. Yeah. Higher than the highest human thought. It's God's plan for his people.
SPEAKER_00For sure.
SPEAKER_04And and and so often we make a conclusion. Oh, well, it worked out this way. Yeah. You know, so so but God, God can, I mean, think about, let's go to Joseph, right? Yeah. Okay. If Joseph had not gone to the, you know, if he hadn't told his brothers about the dream, and then his brothers, you know, went and sold him, and then, you know, he went to, you know, Potter's house and then got in jail. If he hadn't gone through all of that, yeah, he would have never been qualified to live in the manifestation of the dream. So did he, was that his plan? I wanted to go this way. No. But God used it all. Yeah. Why do I say that? Because when you invite God in, we then have to understand we're not subject to our way.
SPEAKER_03It's gonna be his way.
SPEAKER_04And I have never seen anyone achieve their purpose without going through pain.
SPEAKER_00No.
SPEAKER_04I don't know. Listen, I don't know why God created it that way. That's that's just my experience. When I look at scripture and I look at who God has used for great purpose, usually those people that have been the most purposeful have also experienced the most pain.
SPEAKER_00The most pain.
SPEAKER_04So then if I look at experiencing pain as being out of God's will, then I may have a perception of pain that's absolutely not accurate. So we can invite God into the business, we can invite God into the relationship. And those things may still not work the way we plan. For sure, for sure. But they still can be purposeful.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely.
SPEAKER_04You know what I mean? So that's that's when you said that, I was like, oh, let's just go, let's just stay on that, that right there, because that's a really interesting idea to just because I want people to know, like, hey, you know, you can. I I before I got married, we did four months of pre-engagement counseling. Yeah, yeah. We did months of uh of premarital counseling, we did marital counseling, like if there was no lack of process or inviting God into it. This was just the result.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04So then I can sit here and say, okay, then it worked the way it was supposed to work. Because I know that I'm better for it. I know that she's better for it. We wouldn't be where we are in this life if we didn't have each other. And I say, Thank you, God. Thank you for allowing that experience.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And I continue to practice surrender that I don't know. Like I don't know. Like I have I have an idea of what I think works for me in this life, but I don't know. So, God, you bring to my life what you want. You bring to my life who you want, and let me stay in tune enough with you that then I can discern when it's yes. That's right. And even through that discernment, I have no idea how long that's gonna last. Right? You know, I don't know, you know, how long this new movie deal I have is gonna last. I don't know. Right? But right, I have it now. Yeah. I'm grateful for the now. I appreciate it. I'm gonna do my best. Wonderful. But what I can't do is obsess over controlling the outcome. Okay, because when God's in it, he still controls the outcome. For sure. Right? We don't. We can we participate in the process. That's good. We do our best, but there are certain things that God says, okay, it's working exactly to my plan. And you, and that's why you lost this deal. That's why this opportunity, you know, went away. Yeah, because it's working exactly to my plan. For sure. So it's not always when it works according to our plan that we say, oh, God was in it, you know.
SPEAKER_00He's even when it goes wrong, he's still in it. He's still in it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And this is why I what I'm why I'm so passionate about, you know, this part of the message is because I see so many people lose their faith. You know, because, oh, you know, God didn't work the way I wanted him to work or the way I was expecting him to work, based upon how I was taught.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Right? God is not subject to our teaching. He is God. You know what I mean? For sure.
SPEAKER_00You know, it was like or the image we've created of him. Yes, yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yes, exactly, exactly. And and so part of this process for me is is not only finding uh God in what I define as good, but also finding God in what I define as bad.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Come on.
SPEAKER_04Right. Because if God is in, if if God is omnipotent and omnipotent, then he's in everything. He's in everything. He's in all of it. All of it. Right. Yes. And if all things work together for our good, then I gotta be able to find God, even in the things that transpired that I didn't like. Yes. That caused me pain. I still gotta be able to find God there as much as I find him in the things where I can rejoice and find that peace and happiness.
SPEAKER_00No, that's so good. Okay, we because we could be here all day. All day. We could be here all day. Yes. Um, okay, so would you mind praying? No. Just hop right in.
SPEAKER_04Okay, great. Let's do it. Dear Heavenly Father, we thank you, dear Lord, so much uh for your love, your mercy, kindness, and grace. Thank you uh for blessing your daughter, uh, Pastor Brenda, dear God, to just be uh a light to this world, a voice for this generation. And as you continue to, you know, elevate her platform and and her impact, continue, dear God, just to show her uh even more of who you've created her to be and uh let her feel the power of that, the confidence of it, and the joy of it, dear Heavenly Father. And I pray that anyone listening or watching this podcast, uh that if you're watching, it's because you are blessed. If you're watching, it's because you are loved. If you're listening, it's because you are loved. Please know that if you are tuning in right now, it's because God has an incredible plan for your life. And I challenge you right now, in this very moment, to be peaceful where you are, to find joy right where you are, to find happiness right where you are, and to know that God will absolutely do the rest. This is our prayer. In the name of Jesus, we pray. Amen.
SPEAKER_00Amen. Guys, thank you so much for tuning in today. I pray that something was said to help put your life in perspective. Do me a favor, go follow Devon right now. His handle is in the bottom of the screen. Go tap in with him. He has a lot of amazing things coming up, and he's a really great person. You just want to tap in, okay? He has the content going. I promise you he does. Hey, you already know. Hit the subscribe button, and we'll be right back here next week. This is Life in Perspective. We out.