Join us on a Global Ideas Tour mini-series where our host, Sara Stace, takes a deep dive on key elements of cities, places and spaces with our global WSP colleagues as they share learnings, experiences and thoughts on the future as we start to look past the COVID 19 pandemic.
For this session, join Ludo Pittie, Alan Whiteley and Steve Rossiter - dialling in from London, Auckland and Sydney as they discuss the spaces we’ve all rediscovered since the pandemic, human connection and the importance of liveable, green neighbourhoods that can adapt to a changing world.
Show notes and References:
Greater Use of Public, Open and Shared Spaces, NSW State Government Study – https://www.greater.sydney/city-shaping-impacts-of-covid-19/greater-use-of-public-open-and-shared-space
The 15-minute City, Professor Moreno - https://www.c40knowledgehub.org/s/article/Carlos-Moreno-The-15-minute-city?language=en_US.
Join us on a Global Ideas Tour mini-series where our host, Sara Stace, takes a deep dive on key elements of cities, places and spaces with our global WSP colleagues as they share learnings, experiences and thoughts on the future as we start to look past the COVID 19 pandemic.
For this session, join Ludo Pittie, Alan Whiteley and Steve Rossiter - dialling in from London, Auckland and Sydney as they discuss the spaces we’ve all rediscovered since the pandemic, human connection and the importance of liveable, green neighbourhoods that can adapt to a changing world.
Show notes and References:
Greater Use of Public, Open and Shared Spaces, NSW State Government Study – https://www.greater.sydney/city-shaping-impacts-of-covid-19/greater-use-of-public-open-and-shared-space
The 15-minute City, Professor Moreno - https://www.c40knowledgehub.org/s/article/Carlos-Moreno-The-15-minute-city?language=en_US.
Hello, and welcome to the People and Place podcast. Here's your host, Sara Stace Director of Cities for WSP Australia.
Sara:Hello everyone. I'm Sara Stace and you're listening to our Global Tour miniseries within the People and Place podcast, where we take a deep dive into three elements of cities, spaces and social life. I'm joined by WSP colleagues from around the world as they share their learnings, experiences and thoughts on the future. As we look past the pandemic and its impact on urban life. We'll be looking at the shift the world has undergone to really value our local spaces, the importance of human connection in unpredictable times, and how creating adaptable, inclusive, and green spaces are now at the top of the place agenda across the globe. Welcome everybody. I'm based in Sydney, on the land of the Gadigal people of the Eora nation. And I pay my respects to elders past, present, and emerging. Today, we'll hear from experts in the UK, New Zealand and Australia to discuss the role of public space. First to Ludo. I understand you're currently in France, which is something we are very jealous of while we're stuck at the Southern end of the globe.
Ludo:Thank you, Sara. Hi everyone. My name is Ludo Pittie and I'm the Head of Landscape and Urban Design in the UK. And my role is very much about shaping how we create future ready public spaces, bringing together nature and communities at the heart of everything we do. So this is very much a topic, very close to my house.
Sara:Thanks Ludo. Alan is calling in from Aotearoa also known as New Zealand. Hi Alan.
Alan:Kia ora, everybody. I'm Alan Whiteley. So I'm the Head of Urban Design and Landscape Architecture for New Zealand. Our approach to place very much comes through utilizing the multilayers of holistic designs that we get by being as part of a multidisciplinary company. And we hold people at the core of all of our thinking and specialize in systems thinking and communities creation.
Sara:Thank you, Alan. And Steven is in Sydney in Australia.
Steve:Hi everyone. Thanks, Sara. Yeah, I'm Steve Rossiter. I'm the Director of Healthy Communities and Regions. I'm based here in Sydney. So our role is we plan for public space, look at a range of community facilities and community infrastructure, including public space. And we're also really starting from that people place as well, understanding how people will use space, what kind of spaces people need, and really importantly, the outcome that we want to achieve from that space as well.
Sara:Thank you, everyone. So Australia New Zealand are currently in the midst of lockdowns. We have more than half of our citizens under some lockdown rules. It is really highlighted the vital role of neighborhoods and quality public space within walking distance of people's homes. It also reveals the importance of play rest and recreation to our health and wellbeing. We'd like to hear from our panelists, starting with Ludo in the UK. What has changed about our thinking of public space since the start of the pandemic?
Ludo:Great question. Thank you, Sara. I think, first thing I would say was probably people became fearful of their public spaces. I think that was probably part of the initial reaction when we didn't really know what was happening and where we were going. And I think there's probably still some segments of society in Europe where you still have that element of fear in actually seeing others, cause that's where transmission starts. But fundamentally as practitioners, what we've seen is a change of awareness and attitudes. So first of all, people started to live far more locally. And that even applies too to how people have been taking their holidays. So it's really had a fundamental impact on everything that everyone has done and this fear within which we live all of a sudden shrunk to within a certain mid radius from where you lived. And therefore we probably started to reconnect a lot more with our local communities and our neighborhood. And that awareness of what available nature we have around us. How do I get to it? How can I stay healthy and fit within the confines of my neighborhood and my home are all questions that really became far more to the forefront of people's minds. And so I think that there's been a broad increase in awareness towards healthier living outcomes, whether it's active travels or whether it's also our relationship with our public spaces in general. I think there's, we've seen a fantastic rise in tactical urbanism around the world where people have been simply reclaiming their spaces because they could. There were no cars, there were far less people around them. Therefore they took the opportunity and some governments took the initiative to do experiments on the future of their own spaces and their cities. To test out behaviors because this was a once in a lifetime opportunity. So for example, in Manchester, they took the opportunity to close down Deansgate to traffic, which is one of the main arterials through the city and would have been unthinkable 5 or 10 years ago. So I think it's also seen some very interesting changes and practices. And I think hopefully creates a new era where people, nature, living sustainably, caring for each other more, compassionate neighborhoods, form part of the DNA of how we live going forward.
Sara:Yeah, I think that's absolutely right. Ludo. We certainly saw a lot of tactical urbanism approaches in Australia and New Zealand. And we also saw this massive global database of around about a thousand cities that have responded in different ways with tactical urbanism in response to COVID, which really shows a massive shift in thinking.
Alan:Yeah, I'd probably also echo Ludo's perspective in terms of a real strengthening of our community which has the obvious impact on how we view community spaces. As a real sort of feeling when the initial pandemic started affecting people's lives and that we were all under the same sort of problem. And as a result of that scenario of all being in the same boat together a sense of community is derived out of that. And then there's also the additional things of the success of people working from home, the offset of which is actually a closer focus on how we actually balance our lives and how we can be a bit more dynamic and a bit more flexible with our lives. And all of these things sit as a sort of a baseline. Towards a different way of life in which public space becomes a lot more valuable. I think there's certainly been highlighted during this pandemic, when we've seen the CO2 emissions and the nitrogen oxide emissions over cities disappear as airplanes stopped going into the sky. We became very aware of our carbon footprint and our impact on the planet. And also how quickly the world repairs itself. Once we stopped doing what we're doing, and that's also put an additional lens on our future ready directives to create a low carbon future, which also sets as a systems based thinking about how we design our spaces. From my side, it's about a real lens on impacts that we have as a society, and then also a strengthening of our community. And quite naturally that turns into a localization and decentralization as a result of thinking much more on a human scale.
Sara:That's great. Thanks for that insight, Alan. Certainly, in Australia we had massive bush fires that raged for months on end, just prior to the pandemic starting. And I honestly thought that nothing would compare to those bush fires that killed, I think something like a billion animals in Australia and so on. And now we're seeing those bush fires right across the world in places that have never seen that level of heat before. So I think it is incumbent on us to be thinking about that much more in our work and in our lives. Steve, in Australia, what has changed our thinking of public space since the start of the pandemic?
Steve:Thanks Sara. Yeah, I think there's some really common themes emerging there, which is interesting, isn't it? I think we've definitely developed a more local focus and that's been potentially a quite a universal phenomenon. From our perspective here, as we've become more confined we've started to realize and appreciate more the benefits and the value of our local communities and our local immediate environments and the connection between those two things. We've really recognized how important local public space is. And that includes the parks, the playing fields, the sports courts. Alan was just mentioning about working from home. You get a different insight into your community, being home at different times during the day with everybody else as well. But the use of those local parks, the playing fields and the sports courts, and they're not being used for organized sports they're being used for kick arounds and dog walking and all that sort of stuff. But I think the thing that's probably struck me the most is the streets. And how the streets have worked as social spaces and how critical streets are as part of our community infrastructure. And I think we have traditionally looked at those spaces as just the bit beside the road that might be very functional in some ways. But I think we've all probably seen how important streets are as people are out walking. Obviously important for physical activity, but that's where a lot of the social exchange is happening at the moment. And that's where that strengthening of community that Alan mentioned. And I think Ludo had a nice phrase there about how we can become a more compassionate community. And I think it's through those interactions with people that are occurring on our streets, in our other public spaces that are really important. The pandemic has forced us to take a more simple view and a very local view. And I think there that can be real benefits in that. And we're all finding, and we've been forced to find, pleasure and release in those simple activities, like walking, spending time in the local parks, having a chat with people at the appropriate physical distance in those parks. So I think that's important. I was reading something that Jan Gehl's team had done the other day on this. And they talked about how, despite the pandemic humans are still humans. And I think that's really been reinforced. And I think if anything it's shown us more about our humanity and how sometimes a crisis type situation can really bring out the humanity in people. But I think that also means that we still need to really have a strong focus on providing those spaces and ensuring people have access and that all people have access. I may be speaking from quite a fortunate position where I am, where there are the appropriate types of streets and local spaces in my neighborhood where people can do that form of interaction and that kind of activity. But we've got to ensure that we provide those spaces so everyone can have that sort of experience. We're in the state of New South Wales, in Sydney, in Australia and our state government has been doing some interesting research, I think, on public spaces and how they're used. And they released some data towards the end of last year showing that 45% of households, I think it was, were spending more time in public space since the pandemic than they were before. And even considering the requirements for physical distancing over half the people I think was around 52% use public space to connect with friends outside of their immediate households. And that was rated as a really important aspect of their mental health. So yeah, public spaces, those local spaces absolutely critical and have been seen to be really essential in how we're all responding to the situation.
Alan:One of the best things about public spaces, it's a fantastic social leveller. It's open to all creeds and levels of society and it's where the most diverse range of people can congregate in one place. And right now we're experiencing one of the largest levellers of all time, which is a massive pandemic, which affects us all regardless of where we're from and what we do. So these notions of community connections are very present in our mindset at the moment.
Ludo:Absolutely. I think there's been a number of fundamental crises in the past two years. This has been very much a wake up call to humanity, both socially and from a climate perspective, being able to witness how quickly nature could reclaim the built environment by just not us being there. If humans are not around, nature will come back. And how quickly did air quality improve in Sydney, Paris, London, Tokyo, everywhere.
Alan:Yeah, those nitrogen oxide heat maps over the cities as soon as the airplanes stopped were just incredible to watch and in terms of the age of the world, an immediate response.
Steve:That's amazing, isn't it? And it's amazing that all those, qualities are so responsive and the data captures that so quickly. So I think, yeah, there's some really fundamental lessons in there, isn't there? And it's really important that we recognize those.
Sara:That's a great discussion. And what I wanted to then turn to now was thinking beyond the pandemic context, what role do neighborhoods play for people, Alan?
Alan:Good segue from what we've been discussing is that we've actually now started very much moving towards connectivity, accessibility, equity in the spaces and environments that we design. And we've all heard about the notion of the 20 minutes city where we've almost culturally made a bit of a change from hypermobility to great accessibility. The direction forward is probably gonna look at decentralization. People need access to a series of services and amenities within a specific area. Ludo and I have had discussions quite recently about whether or not 20 minutes city is particularly an appropriate terminology cause 20 minutes means a lot of things to a lot of people. Anyone from in a wheelchair to somebody who has a bike, 20 minutes is a different scenario and cities doesn't necessarily encompass everything we're talking about. What we're really talking about is livable neighborhoods where the necessary amenities and services are reachable, where we have access to a healthy lifestyle to clean air, clean water, and green networks. While we also have accessibility through digital connections. Where people feel connected on a personal level, rather than the sort of isolationism that can happen in a world that's so full of digitalization. And so I guess all of these sort of underpinning learnings that we've had during the COVID times will manifest themselves into a protocol of designing much more engaging neighborhoods that really focus on people's wellbeing and health as a new value system going forward.
Ludo:Definitely a topic close to my heart and one that I've been discussing with a lot of our colleagues around the world over the past 18 months. It's been a great opportunity to actually reconsider, what do we mean by neighborhoods and rediscover how fundamental neighborhoods have been to human lives since the creation of settlements, really. And I think that's almost redefining what do we mean by our neighborhoods? Like Alan said, we had a long conversation last week on what do we think are the key attributes of what we would define as livable neighborhoods? Part of that is, it starts in the definition from Professor Moreno, who came up with a sort of 15 minutes city for the Paris mayor and that's really helped kick the conversation. And I think that the key thing from his perspective and his research at the Sorbonne is very much that the six social functions that we all need in our lives should be provided within that 15 minutes. So it's not so much about the city. It's about the fabric. What we need in our lives should be available within that sort of 15 minute walk around us so that it is as accessible as possible and as equitable to all of us. And I think people tend to forget the subtlety of his definition and sort of latched onto the headline. But I think adding to that fundamentally, it is about moving towards net zero living. Because what we need to bring together, the idea of, bringing together health outcomes as well as better outcomes for the planet. So it's really about bringing together how do we redefine all neighborhoods and how do we almost bring the UN sustainable development goals into practice into our daily lives on a local scale. And as a result, what kind of new urbanism might arise from that to create that more local, sustainable, community-based urbanism that can bring that circularity of resources, rather than bringing everything from everywhere. Another thought, lowering impact on the planet with how we live. So I think it's bringing about a lot of fundamental, conversations that will redefine the next hundred years.
Steve:Yeah, I think that's really interesting. In some ways, you know, it creates an interesting challenge for that group of professions and people who are grouped into that urbanist, or work in the urbanism space. Because I think there has been a lot of focus in the past on cities and city centers and big projects that create a lot of attention and can attract a lot of funding and are really interesting and exciting. And I would love to think and need to think that cities will always have a key role in our communities as well. But I think this situation is forcing us almost to look at more of a balance between that large scale sort of city building, but also place-making and stuff that occurs in our big cities and some people do really well and it has some great benefits. But also have an equal balance on those local spaces and those local neighborhoods and the neighborhood, as both Ludo and Alan have said, as the unit where we live, where we spend most of our time. And how we design those spaces and places where we can get those, as Ludo also mentioned, those human needs met. And I think importantly, the pandemic has shown us how we care for our mental health. And that's about not only getting access to the formal sort of services and supports that we need, but what are the things within our local neighborhoods in our local communities that can help us strengthen our mental health in a preventative way. And what are those sort of spaces and places and what are the resources that we need to be able to do that? So I think getting out and using local spaces and meeting people as we've talked about in our local community, we're doing that like we've never done before. And I think we need to build on that momentum and find ways to strengthen that and make sure that's as equally accessible for all people in all groups in our communities as we possibly can be. This has been a leveller. And I think we're going through a common ordeal and a common experience, and there can be the potential for growth and greater connection in that. And many people now are feeling more connected to their local communities because of that. No one of course wants to diminish the impact of COVID, but we also need to ensure that we can find some good things to come out of it so that we can bounce back in a strong way. And I think building on the strength that people are finding in neighborhoods is really important. I think another thing that's interesting to look at is the role that community infrastructure has played. And the adaptability of community infrastructure has been an important element of how we've responded to this. And Sara, you mentioned the bush fires here before which were absolutely devastating on so many different fronts. But as we saw in the bush fires different forms of community facilities were used and adapted in different ways to help people recover, to help people stay safe, to help people access vital supplies in terms of food and things like that. And as we've seen in COVID different spaces being used for vaccination centers and testing centers and things like that. But those facilities need to be there in our communities to have that capacity to adapt, and then they need to be designed and built and located to have that capacity for adaptability. So I think one thing that we've all learned from this process is that we need to be adaptable. We need to be flexible, and I think we need to take that mindset into the approach about how we develop our communities and our neighborhoods in the future. I think people have shown an amazing capacity to be adaptable and resilient. And I think they're human qualities that we should be building on.
Ludo:I think that's great point, Steve. I think that my key take away from what you've just said is that all neighborhoods needs also to have that resilience. You made a super good point from us as humans and some of our community infrastructure. But at the neighborhood scale we need to build that in as well, don't we?
Steve:For sure. Absolutely. It's quite a profound thing, isn't it? Coming out of, what has in many ways been a crisis and being able to respond in that way. And I think some of the human qualities have shown that, and as you've said Ludo, we need to ensure that our neighborhoods and the places that we create and that we adapt are able to, you know, accommodate that resilience and that adaptability for sure.
Alan:Yeah, there is enhanced ownership and stewardship that's come about during COVID. You know, from a personal level, I now go to the local coffee shop, which is obviously locally owned and rather than being outraged by the super high prices of coffee, I actually now feel like I'm contributing towards a local business that really needs it in tough times. And my whole perspective about that exchange of money has gone from something that was rather negative to something that feels like I'm contributing. And that sort of feeling is behind a lot of how a community is resilient. You know, when we wear our masks it's about looking after other people, as well as looking after ourselves. And that sort of aspect of that ownership, I think is fantastic as a core aspect of a very successful society.
Steve:Yeah, absolutely.
Sara:So just touching on that aspect of health and wellbeing, I wanted to go back to Alan. Cities that you're seeing in New Zealand, including Auckland, how are they doing?
Alan:Good question. So how is Auckland, and how is Christchurch doing? So we went into another lockdown. And obviously the first thing you do is call around and check in with everyone and make sure they're doing okay. And they've got everything they need to do their day-to-day work. And now that actual resilience has, is actually coming through. Whereas, last year we were having stories of I'm not sure what to do or how this is going to work. We're now getting a lot of the, yeah, we've been there before. We're just going to crack on and we know exactly what we have to do. And that actually proves what we're saying here, that the more experience we have in this place, the more comfortable people are, the less they'll be panic buying. I have to say in the Countdown, in our supermarket, in central Auckland, I didn't see panic buying this time. People were becoming more assured and confident. Yeah, so I guess that's what we're seeing. We're seeing a maturing to this situation. And I guess through, if we relate that back to good design, we're all walking an unwalked path right now and seeing where we're going to go forward and how this is all going to accumulate in great livable neighborhoods going forward. I guess the messaging from our discipline of surety and positive messaging about our commitment towards wellbeing and people's health and low carbon futures is ever more present as well.
Sara:So, we'll finish with a challenge to our panelists. Where do we go from here? What are you most excited about in your country? When you look at the future of social spaces, let's start with Steve.
Steve:I would like to think, and perhaps optimistically, but I think it's been a theme in our conversation today that there is the potential for us to come out of this with a greater understanding of our connections to each other. And that from this, we will be able to develop a stronger sense of shared responsibility. I think Alan just mentioned, wearing a mask is a sign that you're not only looking out for yourself, but you're looking out for other people as well. And I think the pandemic has really shown us that we all have shared responsibility for others in our community and that our behaviors impact other people as well. So I think there's a real potential for quite a significant shift in the way we think about our communities and how we think about each other. I think the one final thing I'll mention Sara is it really highlighted that there's a real opportunity for improvement in the way we understand the diverse cultures that make up our community and how we communicate with everyone to ensure that the proper messages are getting out. So we need better, more suitable, more appropriate ways to communicate beyond sort of mainstream media and beyond mainstream communities to ensure that everyone gets the best possible information to protect themselves and to take the appropriate actions and to protect each other. So to be in a situation where the government's not speaking in your main language. And you don't have access or supports who can help you with that. I think there's a massive opportunity for improvement in how we do that.
Ludo:Some of the things that Steve touched upon, I think that idea in terms of the social dynamics. Whether it's equity and looking after each other especially when it comes to health inequalities as we've discovered. I think there's a lot to take to come out of it stronger as societies. But I think also we need to look at how we can bring nature to help us create resilient futures. And I think that's one key thing for me, that there is now a much better awareness of how strong of the need there is to do that. So for me, the thing I'm most excited about is really bringing those green blue infrastructures to create those resilient social spaces. Bringing together both of the design nature-based solutions, ecosystem services, and everything we've learned and talked about so far today to really create a whole new generation of neighborhoods and social spaces. So I think there is a future we can influence, but it has to be one where humans and planet can co-exist in harmony. We need to stop thinking that we are the complete masters of everything and everything is unlimited. So we need to reduce our impact and care for each other rather than have the egoistic ways of living that we've seen prior to the pandemic. So it's brought us closer together, but we need to make sure we don't go back to the old ways once we have a new normal ahead of us. I think governments are starting to realize some of the opportunities there with different funding programs and different energy programs to start to build back better and greener. But we need to make sure we also keep on looking after each other and the planet, in the process.
Sara:And Alan, have you got any final remarks on the future of social spaces?
Alan:Ludo was saying there I always see our role as designers is to take the ego out and sit behind communities and the environment and push it forward and up to the next level. And that for me is the most exciting part about what we're going to do next. We've talked about community ownership and looking out for each other. One of the things I'm really looking forward to coming out of the COVID is a sort of a community where we value face-to-face tangible communication with each other. The overwhelming amount of social media and false messaging and digitalization can create isolation and mental health issues. And when we design places for people to meet face to face there's a meaningful connection that resonates with people on an individual level and communities at community level. And then also to reiterate again what Ludo was saying, one of the great things as a landscape architect of seeing what's happened and the learnings that have come out the back of it is it validated some of the core values that we hold very dear to us, such as the accessibility to nature, the biodiversity net gain, putting people at the front of all of our decisions. And taking those learnings that have become so important over the last couple of years is going to definitely set a great pathway going forward for us.
Sara:Great. Thank you to our panelists for this truly global ideas tour and phoning in from different time zones around the world to share your thoughts on our changing perspectives about spaces. Thanks everyone.
Steve:Thanks very much.
Ludo:Thanks everyone. That was brilliant.