This episode takes you on an auditory pilgrimage with the Berlin-based, musician, Batila, weaving the essence of his Congolese and Angolan heritage into a rich narrative that dances between the notes of his latest album, "Tatamana." As Batila unpacks his life's journey from Germany to the cultural depths of his upbringing, we discover how a childhood migration shaped not only his reality but also the very music that he breathes into existence.
Batila's convictions resonate as he insists on music as a vessel for storytelling, a self-acclaimed Griot channelling his energy of crossroads between time and space that underscores his outlook in life. We explore his philosophy that songs must be born from significance, enveloped in the authenticity and depth of his artistry. His first album, a celebration of Black love and unity, stands as a testament to his craft, every carefully composed piece reflecting his dedication to delivering not just sound, but an experience. The high-resolution audio of "Tatamana" invites listeners to not just hear but feel the music, as we discuss how Batila's meticulous attention to detail crafts not only songs but a movement.
Join us for an inspiring session that transcends melody and tinkers with the realms of spirituality and healing. Batila shares his vision for his upcoming album "Mpeve," aiming to connect listeners in a collective trance of togetherness. We close with "Resurrection," a track symbolizing hope and peace, capturing the essence of our discussion. It's a fitting end to our journey with Batila, where each note is a step towards understanding the unbreakable bond between sound, identity, ideology and the eternal quest for inner peace.
Host: Emeka Okereke
Guest: Batila
Production: Atelier E.K Okereke
Cover Photo: Natasha Morokhova
Thank you for listening. Follow Nkata Podcast Station on Instagram @nkatapodcast and Twitter.
See the website for extensive materials: nkatapodcast.com
This episode takes you on an auditory pilgrimage with the Berlin-based, musician, Batila, weaving the essence of his Congolese and Angolan heritage into a rich narrative that dances between the notes of his latest album, "Tatamana." As Batila unpacks his life's journey from Germany to the cultural depths of his upbringing, we discover how a childhood migration shaped not only his reality but also the very music that he breathes into existence.
Batila's convictions resonate as he insists on music as a vessel for storytelling, a self-acclaimed Griot channelling his energy of crossroads between time and space that underscores his outlook in life. We explore his philosophy that songs must be born from significance, enveloped in the authenticity and depth of his artistry. His first album, a celebration of Black love and unity, stands as a testament to his craft, every carefully composed piece reflecting his dedication to delivering not just sound, but an experience. The high-resolution audio of "Tatamana" invites listeners to not just hear but feel the music, as we discuss how Batila's meticulous attention to detail crafts not only songs but a movement.
Join us for an inspiring session that transcends melody and tinkers with the realms of spirituality and healing. Batila shares his vision for his upcoming album "Mpeve," aiming to connect listeners in a collective trance of togetherness. We close with "Resurrection," a track symbolizing hope and peace, capturing the essence of our discussion. It's a fitting end to our journey with Batila, where each note is a step towards understanding the unbreakable bond between sound, identity, ideology and the eternal quest for inner peace.
Host: Emeka Okereke
Guest: Batila
Production: Atelier E.K Okereke
Cover Photo: Natasha Morokhova
Thank you for listening. Follow Nkata Podcast Station on Instagram @nkatapodcast and Twitter.
See the website for extensive materials: nkatapodcast.com
Ignorance is the trigger and you've been triggering me for a while, sadly, I do matter. Hundreds of years, you deny I, black people. Multiply Black love. Unify Black woman. Unify Black youth. Organize my people. Don't you compromise Black men realize, oh, oh.
Speaker 2:Oh, oh, hello, hello, hello. Welcome to this episode of Dott of Thoughts. I will be in conversation with Batila. So Batila is a musician and the song you've been listening to is the first track in his 21 album called Black Love. The track is called Black Love. The thing is, batila is a Berlin based musician and I have been listening to his work and what comes across is this idea of Africa as a story of Johnny's. So I thought to have a conversation with him around this idea of Johnny's and yeah, so that's what we're going to be doing today. So, with no further ado, let me say welcome to the studio.
Speaker 1:Yes, I'm here.
Speaker 2:So both of us have had a conversation about your work, your person, your disposition and what informs the urge behind what you do, and we are going to listen to some of your songs. But I want us to start off with this idea of Johnny's and in this case your personal, johnny Well our personal Johnny is.
Speaker 1:Well, we came to Germany when I was like five years old, my mother and my sister. My father was here already, so he brought us. They were young. My father realized that the political situation in the economy in the Congo was kind of getting a bit crazy with Mobutu and all that, so he decided to leave. He was a very bright guy, knew how to do a kind of shit, knew how to work with his head and everything. They were very courageous and he decided to leave. So he came to Europe.
Speaker 2:And, by the way, we didn't say actually where you from when he left and we came to Germany. You mentioned Germany but you didn't mention from where. Well, yeah, we came from Congo Angola and then and that's actually what is fascinating about this idea of Johnny, because there is Congo as Angola in that situation Are you going to tell us about it a little bit more?
Speaker 1:Well, this Angola story, I think, is more the story of my parents, not really my story, so I don't really feel that I have the right to talk about that part. I just know that I experienced Angola during the war because they had a very long civil war, and Angola is also same with Congo as those countries where my roots are. I have a huge family in Angola, a huge family in Congo. We are actually the same people. Only through the Berlin Conference they have this artificial borders, but we are actually the same people.
Speaker 1:So both countries are somehow in my soul and in my heart and, like I said, our journey went from Congo to Angola and Angola went to Portugal. We came to Frankfurt, then Lüven. Lüven is a very small village, now it's a bigger town and coming to Germany in the 80s it was quite adventurous because in that village we had the only black family, I was the only black child and I went to kindergarten one year, the kindergarten, primary school, everything. So for me it was a complete different, a new world that I was engaging with, but my family was quite tight.
Speaker 1:So I think, they made it quite easier for me to settle. And well, I grew up there. I did my A-Levels, then went to London, studied in London, then after my studies I was in Paris for a bit. I was in France, not just in Paris, but I traveled all over France and then I came to Berlin.
Speaker 2:Very interesting. That's a lot of detail, and I know that much of this detail was also a function of how your parents moved and when they came to Europe. Much of that was the reality of Africans, where they had to move a lot before they found their base. Let's put it that way.
Speaker 1:Well, actually my parents didn't move that much. My father just came to Angola and from Angola directly to Germany. We just had a few stops. We just stopped in Portugal for a couple of days in the Netherlands and we came directly. So my parents really decided to stay in Germany, but me, at a certain age I couldn't stay in Germany anymore.
Speaker 2:I had to move.
Speaker 1:That's what I did.
Speaker 2:And you started your own journey and much of that, the way you have moved, also reflects in your work as a musician. But again, let me not get ahead of you. I want to ask you, how has that sort of idea of movement and moving and knowing that you are from Angola, from Congo and also even German yeah, In a way, yeah, you're German, because, by the way, he speaks German fluently like blasting water.
Speaker 2:Yeah, how has that affected you? First of all, as a person, you know your worldview, the way you think about life. I like to say that each and every one of us have their realities, almost like your own VR set through which you look at life, but it's a prism also. It's a prism through which you understand and comprehend through life. So how has that affected you?
Speaker 1:Let me say it this way I think my luck and my foundation is truly my family. You know, because you know, coming as a young person into a western country, you need a solid foundation because you can get lost very quickly. Yeah, you know. So at home, I was truly at home. I was like still in Congo, still in Angola somehow you know.
Speaker 1:My parents were young so they integrated very fast so I had both words. Always At home I was having my Congolese food, the music, the poetry, the traditions. You know, like family gatherings, how to speak in family gatherings. You know, like, how to welcome people. All that I got it from home.
Speaker 2:Amazing, amazing.
Speaker 1:So my parents made sure that this, this, that we were not uprooted. You know, because I mean, we were young.
Speaker 1:You know, like my sister could barely speak. You know, but in our household we're speaking our mother tongue, uh-huh, you know because my mother was always saying you guys have to speak Lingala because we have relatives all over the world and we are like dispersed all over and you guys got to meet and you need to have a common language. You know because we don't know. You know where in life's going to take, you take whoever, so you need to speak Lingala in order to communicate with your grandparents, with your family. So our household, we all speak Lingala.
Speaker 2:Wow, wow, and you know what you're saying now. Um, on one hand, especially within the context of the diaspora on one hand, this is just, this is a part of that is not accessible to many people. Oftentimes we think that you know when you are, you know in the diaspora, you are sort of like obliged, sort of like be outside, that, you know culture, like you said, and then you, you have very little of that sort of system. But at the same time, it's not true. No, there are so many context that are, but it's just that we don't hear that enough. So again, on one hand, what you're saying is common, but at the same time, it's something that we shouldn't take for granted. You know, because it's there. It's just that we don't know that. That's, that's, that's a thing actually.
Speaker 1:Yeah, especially, especially when we go back to the music, because that shaped also my writing you know, and my thinking yeah.
Speaker 1:And all that baggage of tradition, of the language, of the poetry and I love Congolese music, I love Congolese poetry. Traveling just enhanced that also. You know, like I learned through my journeys to appreciate where I'm from, what I have, what I've learned, what I've experienced, what I've heard, you know, and everything that just that I gathered along my way. It was just like some sugar, some salt, whatever, and I had a solid foundation and that's where my inspiration comes from. You know, that's where my inspiration comes from. The journeys that were very important to me to open up my, my, my perspectives. You know, like to see the world in different eyes, yeah, but then always remembering, in general, I would advise every young person to travel, to travel around, because if you travel, you discover, of course, things. You learn a lot about yourself, you know, and you also learn to appreciate where you're from.
Speaker 2:you know, in the bass, yeah, you know, as you're saying this now, I'm just thinking to myself what would be one song from your album that will sort of like give us a sense of that influence from Congo and a mixture of things. I know. That is all of it, I know, but one, now that we can play.
Speaker 1:I think Lubico would be good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, nice, all right, let's listen to Lubico.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2:Wow, wow, wow, so yeah.
Speaker 1:There's actually a funny story about this song. Yeah, no, but go on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've read a song where you describe your music, your music, your songs as sophisticated, colorful and with a lot of life. Much of that is also the way it's crafted. There's a split rhythm. Of course, it's coming from the Congo, the way we know it. I want to ask a specific question. It's not just about the usual cliché of who influenced you and all that. First of all, the usual one your influences, but also how are you thinking about it when you're weaving and cooking it together?
Speaker 1:My father played a big role in shaping my musical taste and getting me into the music because he was a. My father is a huge music lover. You know he spent a lot of money as a young person for artists, with artists, so he was traveling to Belgium always and bringing us violence from the latest tunes you know, Pippa Kale Zai Kulanga Langa Sima Kulutumba Okja Tabula.
Speaker 1:You know all those big people and what he will do is no matter how late he will come, he will wake me up and you tell him, or I'll wait for him because I'm excited. You know, father is gone three days, coming back so excited so he bring the violence and give it to me and he will tell me, tell me which song you like.
Speaker 1:I will not sleep the whole night and listen to the songs you know, and then the next morning he will tell me which song he want me to listen to. You know, and I knew all the songs of, like my head already, like my heart, you know. So my influences are definitely the big homely artists you know. First of all, like I said, papa Omba, okja Kinkester, billy Abel Chala, moana Abitima Sikini, evolo Guzho Ker. You know, I mean people really have to listen to those people to understand, to really understand because that's like deep, deep, deep now.
Speaker 2:you know, because we know Papa, omba, the rest of them, but you know there's all the other people. You know. Yeah, you really have there's Franco as well Franco Lomo Macchiati.
Speaker 1:You know Especially the songs from Franco Lomo Macchiati and his songwriter Lutumba Simarro. They were very poetic and through the poetry I also learned a lot about our society, especially the Congolese society you know, and through the songs also, I've learned that, the way the Congolese people I don't know if they still do it, but most of the songs are written in the perspective of the woman. You know, it was not a guy singing whatever, but it was like they were singing the pain of the woman.
Speaker 2:Interesting Interesting. And why is that?
Speaker 1:I really I also been thinking about that a lot. I don't have the right answer yet, but it was very interesting to observe. You know that most of the songs are in the perspective of the woman and what they also do is like they use love songs in order to tackle issues of the society. What's going wrong, like mistreatment and you know we have all these discussions about, for example, there are quite revolutionary songs. You know, like there's this song where a woman is saying look, I came to this bar, I just came to chill, I want to have some drink.
Speaker 1:I just want to have some drinks. You ask me to dance with you. Of course I say yes, we dance, but that doesn't give you the right to check me up. That doesn't give you the right to talk anyhow to me. You know I'm a very respectful woman you know, like you don't know where I got my money from to come here. You know you respect me. You know like those songs. You know I don't know if people listen to them, but they say a lot you know, like also about the status of people.
Speaker 1:You know and how people want it to be seen, how also women want it to be seen in the society. You know how she wanted to be treated.
Speaker 2:Was it like? Also like the men were actually singing or speaking on behalf of the women, but they're also female singers as well.
Speaker 1:they were Of course that strong female musicians like Abetima Sikini. She was a powerful woman. You know, she had her old style, she had like, of course, she had, like this, musical masterminds behind her. You know she was great Chalamuano. She made it from a dancer to a singer. We have Mbili Abel, we have Lucia Yengna. It's like one of the not my generation like, not even my parents' generation, so older and yeah, so there were quite a few females that also inspired me.
Speaker 2:But now, let me now ask this is like a tongue in cheek kind of question who were the Nigerians who inspired you? It can't be Congo only. Come on, Nigeria is everything in Africa.
Speaker 1:No, I mean Fela, inspired me later, as when I was listening to the lyrics and I was very interested in politics, you know, and I was very proud to and very, very happy to hear this artist, you know, tackling the political leaders, you know, and being brave Everybody was scared. Everybody was scared to say something you know, and he was very bold. He was doing whatever he wanted and he was expressing, you know, and I was really like impressed by that. There is also another guy, but I forgot, I can't pronounce his name.
Speaker 2:Press Nikon Baga.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, he was like. His covers were also like very mysterious, you know like.
Speaker 2:Okay, is it from the east of Nigeria?
Speaker 1:I think from the east Obanjo something.
Speaker 2:Who would that be? Who would that be? Who would that be? No one comes to mind now, yeah, but speaking of you know, being bold and speaking, I also find that there is that angle to your work as well. Like, there are specific things that you are saying and I know we've had this conversation before and he says something to the tune of you know that you like to sing from a place of the heart and that when you hear a sound and it doesn't feel right, it churns your belly. You know and if, like, I don't want to do this, I'm going away from this that you sing from that place and I get that sense in your work as well. And there are specific ways that you write. It's not like trying to write a nice beautiful song, but rather to tell a specific kind of story. Why is that, and can you speak more about that?
Speaker 1:There's this. I think he's an imbopement artist called Oliver M Tukutzi, and I met him in Malawi, 2010. And he said something quite interesting. Something that I can also relate to is like he said, that he doesn't write a song if he have nothing to say. So, I operate the same way. If I don't have nothing to say, I will not write. You know, sometimes I'm very frustrated because I want to, I would express something, but I don't have the right words.
Speaker 1:so I just cool down and I just don't say don't write anything until it comes, and for me the musician has the I mean art in general I feel must have a purpose, and my purpose is to tell stories, to also visualize something in my music, because sometimes I sing about something that I hope for myself or for somebody else in the future, you know, because some people say, yeah, but how come you sing about this but you don't act according to it? And I'm talking to myself also. It's also something that I want to be, something I want to achieve. You know, somewhere I want to go, you know and I want to pass it on.
Speaker 1:You know I'm like a modern Grillo. You know I tell stories tell stories, inform also you know, because I think we live right now, we are in a very conscious time. And I think we need conscious music also.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, you know, and this is it's very interesting because, especially in this album you know that we are listening to that is called Tatamana.
Speaker 1:Tatamana yeah.
Speaker 2:You seem to also be speaking to and for black people, and also black people, in this expansive way, in this planetary way, in this like wherever you are in the world. This is your disposition. This is how you're supposed to situate yourself. Yes, sometimes it sounded a bit like, you know, very instructive, though, guys, this is how you're supposed to do this. So sometimes you turn it to the black person, but sometimes you turn it to Like, what did I see? When we say that I speak, I'm speaking in your presence, but I'm not speaking about you, I'm speaking beyond you. Exactly, you know, and this is in relation to the, to the West, to the white person, you know, or to the archetypal white person. I like to always use archetypal because that is very specific. Can you speak to that?
Speaker 1:I don't know, I don't know exactly they're saying I can't reproduce it, but you know there's some. There's some things you just talk within the family, Is it? Is it? There's some stuff you, no matter how bad it is, you just it has to be talked into the family. You can't be going outside and talking shit about your family, Uh-huh, you know. And there's some things you talk in public. Exactly, you know, and I also believe that in my music there's some quotes. You know, there's some songs where, of course, I dedicate to every music lover that loves good music, good lyrics, whatever. But there's some songs like Black Love, for example. That's why I put because Black Love is the last song that I wrote for this album, the very last, but I needed that message.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:I made it the first song on the album you know, because that's what we need. We need Black Love, we need this unity. You know we need the understandings like accountability. It's not like I'm pointing fingers, but I am saying this because this is what we need. This also, I'm also in it. You know, it's like. It's like I'm putting myself. I give myself a task, also To engage in that.
Speaker 1:And I found it very important to do that, you know, to have that message of Black Love as a first song of Tatamana. You know, tatamana means it's Kikungwe, means don't give up, hold on to what you love Interesting, and I love Black people.
Speaker 2:Wow, interesting. So let's listen to Black Love in full, because we just only listen to it like the first part of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Let's get a sense of what you are trying to pass across.
Speaker 1:Beautiful, hundreds of years you deny I. Black people multiply Black love for to fight, black woman unified, black youth organized. My people don't you compromise Black men realize. Oh, we won't be resting in Very less at With the crumbles of your empathy. We are the secret keepers of humanity when everything and you will succeed. Oh, oh oh. Na na na linde, na na na linde, na na na linde, na na na linde. How can it be forgotten? Your poisonous gifting? Everything you are is us. How can it be forgotten, your poisonous gifting In return? What have we got? Nothing.
Speaker 2:We've given everything you are still taking it. Where would the whole western world be without Africa?
Speaker 1:Black people multiply. Black love fortified.
Speaker 2:Wow, very self-evident, wow, it's interesting. But also cutting across all your work is this attention to detail, the instruments, everything. I listen to them on high-res, streaming it from cubos, by the way, the CD quality and I'm listening with my headphones wired Because I really love to listen to music and get a sense of what the musician is trying to achieve in the studio, because I know there's a lot of attention, but I hear it, it comes across. So can you talk about your process of music making a little bit?
Speaker 1:I mostly start with the guitar, with an idea that is somewhere in my head and I play it. Sometimes it depends on the different ways. Sometimes I take the idea to the band and say it's all idea, let's jam on it.
Speaker 1:And through that jamming I get an idea. My drama records most of the things that we rehearse. I take it back and start thinking maybe this one I can't use this, and I just start working on it and sometimes I don't have nothing at all. I just play the lyrics and I carry it around with me all the time and then one day I just pick up the guitar, have the lyrics in my head and sometimes I don't even know, it just happens. But when we talk about details, to me it is very important that every instrument plays its role. I really pay attention that everything that is in the song has a meaning and hearable and the sound is very important to me. I learned a lot in the studio that I work with, the Tick Studios. I learned a lot from the African music arrangement, because sometimes there are like 15 people playing. You don't hear any chaos, you don't hear any chaos?
Speaker 1:why?
Speaker 2:Because everyone has a role and everybody is proud and exercises the role with really, really with love, and it's also beautiful about the kind of diligence and care with which music was made in the 60s, 70s, 80s, from the African continent, when you hear the sound, and that's where we start thinking or talking about polyrhythmic sound. But again, polyrhythm is not cacophony in any way, it's not noise. In fact, that's what makes it really beautiful.
Speaker 1:It's really like how the society should work. Everybody gives what they have. We kind of meld it together and bring it together Without denying the existence of the shaker, of the little sound effects. Everything is important, everything is there.
Speaker 1:It's just the question how you place it. When is it going to come? I'm very much in love with sound. You can be the best player in the world, but if you don't have that sound, you can create sound with your fingers. You can create sound with your amp. I like that. I like people that have sound Like me. For example, when I play guitar, a lot of guitarists. When I tell them to reproduce it, they will not be able to reproduce it because I have a certain sound.
Speaker 1:I have a certain way to play, also because I didn't study it.
Speaker 2:Is it the same as thinking that there is a way your ears hear sound, but there's also a way your body reproduce sound? Definitely Like in terms of the mechanics of it, definitely it's important.
Speaker 1:This is also what I tell my musicians when we rehearse, and I see their bodies, how they play, I say no, no, no. You have to move like this, Because when you move like this, the sound will come out and it happens. Interesting the way you position yourself, also the way you stand on the stage. There's a certain way you have to stand a certain way. You have to move in order to.
Speaker 2:So that the sound can come out. In other words, the sound is not just something you hear. It is actually something that is a product or a manifestation of how one moves their body in space, but also in presence, in presence.
Speaker 1:It's so important. Sometimes, when we are playing something especially when it's a new musician, and I see how he's moving his head and how he's playing, I say look the way you're moving your head already. It's the reason why you're not playing it right, Because your body is not moving accordingly. You have to make your body, you have to move your body to the rhythm. You can't be playing a different rhythm and your body is doing something else.
Speaker 2:It doesn't work.
Speaker 1:I like to express those things.
Speaker 2:Everybody understands it and sometimes it gets to misunderstandings, but at the end it's like that you have lived a good part of your life in Germany, but, again, you've always struggled the sense of being here and elsewhere and this is something that is taken from Edward Lisand's idea of a politics of relation To be here and elsewhere at the same time. So you're going back and forth, maybe 20, 30 years ago or 40. It's called a schizophrenia, identity crisis between cultures, but as we come closer and understand the power in that, we are not seeing it so much as a schizophrenia, but still there's still a struggle To know where you stand and how to move. Again, we're talking about movement. I love this analogy of the way you move your body is the way the sound comes out. I really love that. So now, how have you been dealing with that? Being in Germany and making your music the way you're making it, but also having to every single day leave and also express yourself? You're in a reality that is a German society.
Speaker 1:It took me some time, actually, because I realized that I am with everything that I experienced, like what I got from home, what I see outside. I move with the people. I move with the people, but I don't how you call it assimilate. I don't live up to nobody's expectation, because last time I was in Congo, my relatives were calling my mother but what kind of guy is this man? Because people don't even realize that he's from Europe. Because I am with the people, I am in there. When I'm in Kinshasa, I am in Kinshasa, I take my space. Of course I see things that we're not comfortable with anymore Through the upbringing here. What is this? Whatever? But I surrender, I take it like that.
Speaker 2:I surrender. It's interesting, I surrender.
Speaker 1:I'm in the water, I swim, but nobody's going to eat me, I know how to navigate.
Speaker 2:You talk about this idea of surrendering, and oftentimes there are Africans who are born here and they grew up in the West. They grew up in a place like Germany. They are usually designated as Afro-Germans Highly problematic for me, I would say From my own standpoint. But this is a story for another day. But the point I'm trying to make is that Oftentimes, when they go to the African country, there's always this question of oh, I'm not accepted, I'm seen as European. It feels to me like there is something that is missing, which is this act of surrendering, and also that's surrendering meaning taking space at the same time. But because it's surrendering and it's not kind of taking space, of saying that I'm the one who is better or because I'm coming from the West.
Speaker 1:That's the problem, that's the thinking Because they come with the Western mentality of this is not how it's supposed to go.
Speaker 1:This is not how you're supposed to behave. This is not how you. You know, and I can just repeat it again. I think my luck is also that in our household we are communities, people. You know, like I know, about our traditions. I know how to talk to elders, I know how it is. You know I'm the first born. You know I'm like I have this first born duties, like given, like for my father, really sit you down and talk. So I think it's the responsibility of the parents also. You know, like when you have kids in the diaspora, if you want them to be connected, you have to give them something.
Speaker 2:This is like connect with you know, it's almost like I'm being judged now, because I'm just kidding. You're not being judged, but yeah, you too. You too, you have kids. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I have kids and I have kids and I make sure, I make sure that they know where they're from. You know, and they know what it means. You know. They know certain things. You know, I'm not trying to make them like, become like me or ever, but there are certain things you have to know. There's certain ways there's a certain humbleness. You have to be humble. You know, there's a certain humbleness, certain understanding of processes of how people think, because we don't all think the same.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:People also behave according to their situation. You know, it's like when I travel, for example, and you give somebody like when I'm in Kinshasa, for example you give someone like money, they are going buy me something. Be sure that he's going to add something on top.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:Okay, either you can be pissed about it and feel like you've been betrayed, mm-hmm, or duped, yeah, or you can just confront it, or this is what I do. I just say, ah man, what's up? But you understand.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I understand Mm-hmm, but you know we are cool. You can just tell me yeah, you know, and then people will be like, ah, okay, cool. And then they will. It will change, you know, Mm-hmm. What I'm basically saying is like for me. First of all, I think my lack is also that I don't see myself as a German. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, you know, I can never be a German.
Speaker 2:But you are. Isn't there part of you that want to make that into something that you sort of like can also own and say, well, I am because I live my life here, and when I need to be German, I can be German. Isn't there part of you that sort of like think that way? Is it necessary to create an? Either or?
Speaker 1:No, I don't think that it's necessary to create an either or. But in my case, I take my space, Mm-hmm. I take my space because I feel that I can be and live anywhere I want, Mm-hmm. I have the right to be whoever, wherever, Mm-hmm. But I don't call myself a German. Yeah, because I think. Before I call myself something, yeah, I need to be long. And the thing about the German society is they don't make you feel like you belong to them, Because there's always something either it's your skin, either it's your skin color, either it's the way you speak, either it's what you eat, either you know there's always something. You know, Mm-hmm, and for me, I don't want to go into that always have to defend myself, always have to justify myself.
Speaker 2:You know, mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:I am not a German you know, mm-hmm. Because the Germans they don't see me as a German also, you know like this is their country, their space you know, I'm in it, I live here, I appreciate it.
Speaker 2:you know I'm quite happy you know, I have my family and everything.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm, I live well, so yeah, but it doesn't mean that I have to, by false wanting, to become a German. They don't accept that anyway.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:Like. I see all the billboards with black people on it and whatever I say ah, it's nice, you know it's evolving, but at the same time, the Germans themselves, they're not.
Speaker 2:The billboards. We all know that it's basically publicity, it's a facade, it's appearance, it's marketing. You know much and dyes of the body, totally All over again.
Speaker 1:Totally, and I don't play that game. You know, I'm just. I'm by Tila, I'm here in Germany. I can speak German fluently. I know the German, some German traditions, you know, Mm-hmm. But I also know my traditions, you know, and I can bring them nicely together you know Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Because in what I mean in Congo or somewhere else, they also tell me I. But you know, you're European.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I am, but I'm also this Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:When I take my guitar and start singing, they be like ah, how come you speak Lingala? So well you see. So what is it you know? What is it you know?
Speaker 2:Do you have songs that you've written in German?
Speaker 1:I have songs that I've written in German. When I came to Berlin, that was the first project that I had to write, an album in German Mm-hmm. But I did it for a while, but then I realized that it wasn't my soul. Yeah, I was singing in German, but it wasn't. There are beautiful songs also, but it wasn't my soul. It wasn't my ancestors talking out of me Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. You know, and this is very important to me it didn't really come out of my inner.
Speaker 2:Yeah, your inner soul, and it's a thing that you are referring to, something that does not need any other qualification beyond that. Simply that you know it. You know that it is not coming from that place.
Speaker 1:No, I know it, and people also know it, mm-hmm, because people also realize.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:They'll tell you oh, it's beautiful, mm-hmm. But there's something. I don't know if it's just expectations, but I think the people always feel it Mm-hmm. They do Mm-hmm. When I sing in N'Gala, for example, my voice also changes, and the texture of the voice, the way it's different.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's just different.
Speaker 1:It's just different. I can't. I would like to change that sometimes, but it's just different. Also for myself. When I sing in it I'm like but I can play one song in N'Gala.
Speaker 2:Exactly, I was going to ask you now, but the guitar, you know what? Yeah, let's do that.
Speaker 1:The song that I wrote a while ago. Let me f***ing. I love it. I love the singing, I love that language, I love the way we take our melodies.
Speaker 2:Combined with what I've all the influences here, and one feels that very much your album and also now that you have sung it, it feels like it comes natural to you. It feels like something is activated.
Speaker 1:By the way, everything is activated, All the senses. I can feel it everywhere.
Speaker 2:Wow, everywhere Did that time. We were at your concert, your last concert, and it was electrifying, to say the least. It was packed, it was intimate, but at the same time, people had fun and you took people through various moments, but there were also people singing with you. It was conveying other musicians', poets and dancers, body movements and things. It was really beautiful and there was an emphasis on basically trying to create an atmosphere.
Speaker 2:Yes, so, and I know that lately you've been thinking about where do we take this to now? Where do we take all of this energy to? And I know that you're not thinking of it only on the level of ambition, that you want to achieve some sort of success or be on a big stage or be on the mainstream or join the whole rave of Afro beats and blah, blah, blah. You're thinking about it more from a place of how do we animate and activate this energy in a fuller way, in a more responsive way? So how are you thinking about all of this now in terms of your work, in terms of your reality, in terms of your disposition?
Speaker 1:I'm working on the second album.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:And the second album will be called Pavey, and Pavey is like trance when you're in trance, you're in Pavey. When you're obsessed, you're in Pavey. And it's going to be a work of togetherness, of really bringing spirits together. You know, spirits together and I won't take myself back a bit but still be the driving energy. You know like I want to write songs and give it to someone else to sing it, for example, I want to bring a lot of young artists together. You know that energy of this uprising, you know, because this consciousness, we need it. A lot of people say that I'm a hater or whatever. Yes, sometimes maybe, but in this times, this is what we need. We need artists to bring those energies, those forces, this endeavor to change something, you know, in people's minds, you know in their souls.
Speaker 1:And this is actually my aim. I really want to get into people's souls, I really want them to listen, you know, and I promised myself that I'm going to make them dance, but at the same time, I want to make them think and feel healed, amazing, amazing.
Speaker 2:You know the aspect of healing. You know it feels like more and more with everything happening in the world and the way that it feels like we keep returning to this question of healing.
Speaker 1:Because people are really, especially in Berlin, I realized I never came across like in others cities, but people are not well. People are not well and music can play a big part in people's well-being. You know, People are not well, and music can also cause you not to be well. You know, depending on what you hear.
Speaker 2:It can confuse you, it can highlight, it can bring that part of you that is seek to light. So this idea of bringing something to light is also cathartic in a way. It's also unraveling in a way. So, but again, it is that kind of bringing it to light and you think about Berlin, but I just feel like it is basically everywhere. I mean, yeah, I mean, but Berlin definitely Germany in general.
Speaker 2:I mean, look at, for me, what has been very sickening, you know, is that you are in a country that is supposed to give its own history, stand up really for a very impersonal, you know, humanity, a new humanity and what is happening in the Middle East, and everyone has, and there's a lot of hypocrisy On one hand, there's a lot of hypocrisy in how people are going about it here, and the hypocrisy is actually what is pitiable.
Speaker 2:It's not that people take positions and it's fine for you to say this is my position, but the fact that you know that position is wrong and yet you hide it, and I'm like where are we going with this? This is what one feels in a place like so far in this month now, in a place like Berlin. So that's on one hand. Now, on the other hand, you have the eye of the rising and all of that, and when you combine all of that, you say, basically, this is humans not knowing where to go. And I feel like that's what you're referring to when you talk about speaking to the soul, getting to the soul.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for me, my task, let me just call it my mission, I can see it as ambition, especially when I talk about black people. It's spirituality Because, like you said, this sickness is everywhere and black people are really also in that and spirituality plays a big role in it.
Speaker 1:And being sure about who you are, where you are, what you want, where you're from. I've met a lot of people also a lot of black people talking about this IFT thing and I felt that they were really frightened and for me I was like, okay, I understand, but you shouldn't be frightened. You shouldn't Because this what they want to do. It will not happen. I'm really convinced that it's not going to happen.
Speaker 2:Is that if the fear is giving it legitimacy? Exactly.
Speaker 1:The fear is giving them room to be. It's like they kind of grow out of that fear Exactly. Out of that fear, that growing and becoming strong as I am, because the people are scared. But if you're not scared, if you face them, I think nothing's going to happen.
Speaker 2:And the only way to not be scared is to continue to look for ways to speak to the, to get to the spirit right, to get to the spirit, to the spirit has to be strong.
Speaker 1:The truth is being revealed. It's revealing by itself. You see what Israel is doing. People are seeing it. The youth is seeing how the world actually is.
Speaker 2:So it's burying itself, it's exposing itself, it's exposing itself. And it can continue that way. I mean and it will not continue that way. It will not continue that way because for things to actually heal, it has to come into light.
Speaker 1:Exactly, yeah, and the truth is being revealed, even if you don't care about it, but you just see it. You know, like my younger brother, he was born here. When this Ukraine thing came up, where they were not letting black people into the trains and everything, you know I mean my brother he was really saddened and full of fear, you know. And it came to my mother. He was telling my mother hey, mom, I think it's time for me to go and buy land and build a house. You know, because I grew up here, I was born here, this is my place, yeah, but I don't feel safe. It shows a lot of things For the youth. It gives that sense of growth, of knowing where you belong and where you can be we don't have to.
Speaker 1:You know you were free. You know we're not like forced to stay at certain place where you're not accepted, where you're mistreated. We're not free to move around everywhere. You know we're really free to move around everywhere and we have a place. That's what I feel. And spirituality plays a big role in black people's suffering. And we are still. We are still too much in that mental slavery, mental enslavement.
Speaker 2:But in many ways also, in many ways, there is also this push to come out of it. A lot of things is happening and so I like pushing towards it. That's an optimistic way of looking at this maddening times that we find ourselves today. Well, this has been a wonderful, wonderful conversation, my brother.
Speaker 1:I mean, there's so many things we can talk about, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:You know. So we'll keep it here for now. This is the first one. But if I should ask you like one song from this album that you sign off with, you know, and on a good note, on a note that keeps it open-ended, which one will it be? I think resurrection. Yes, I was thinking. I was thinking should I ask you more? Should I play that one?
Speaker 1:The first song that I wrote for the album.
Speaker 2:Alright, so we're gonna play Resurrection.
Speaker 1:No way for my resurrection, cause the departure made me die long time ago. From all creations, you are the one like my other most One day Tuesday, wednesday, thursday, fridays. You never come home. Saturdays and Sundays I'm at home all alone. One day Tuesday, wednesday, thursday, fridays. You never come home. Saturdays and Sundays I'm at home, all alone. Now I've turned into a ghost, thank you. No way for my resurrection, cause the departure made me die long time ago. From all creations, you are the one like my other most One day Tuesday, wednesday, thursday, fridays you never come home. Saturdays and Sundays I'm at home all alone. One day Tuesday, wednesday, thursday, fridays. You never come home. Saturdays and Sundays I'm at home, all alone. Now I've turned into a ghost, exhausted from planting a carrot for my spirit Indeed. Only in you I'll find my eternal peace.