Grow Your Photography Business Podcast
Ninjacast is your go-to podcast for growing a successful, sustainable photography or videography business - brought to you by Studio Ninja, the trusted studio management software built specifically for creatives behind the camera.
Hosted by Studio Ninja’s own Sally, Ninjacast features real, honest conversations with leading photographers, educators, and creative entrepreneurs.
Each episode delivers practical tips, inspiring stories, and actionable advice to help you elevate your brand, attract your ideal clients, and run your business with clarity and confidence.
Whether you’re just getting started or scaling up, you’ll discover how to simplify your workflows, sharpen your marketing, and build a business that supports both your creative ambitions and your personal well-being. Expect candid chats, zero fluff, and plenty of value - so you can spend less time on admin and more time behind the lens.
Grow Your Photography Business Podcast
135: Sam Hollis - How To Increase Wedding Enquiries With A High-Converting Website
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Sam Hollis helps photographers build businesses that actually serve their lives, not the other way around. As co-host of the Commercial Photographer podcast, he shares weekly insights on marketing, growth, pricing, and creativity, helping photographers think more strategically about how they run and scale their businesses.
Through his work at Website 4 Photographers, Sam specialises in helping photographers take control of their online presence. He is particularly known for his expertise in local SEO and Google Maps, showing photographers how to dominate their local area, increase visibility, and generate consistent, high-quality enquiries without relying solely on social media.
Sam is a strong advocate for building efficient, systemised businesses that support long-term sustainability. He believes that with the right foundations—clear messaging, a well-structured website, and smart marketing channels—photographers can create predictable lead flow and more freedom in their work.
Living what he teaches, Sam operates a highly mobile “freedom model” lifestyle. While his daughters live and study in the Netherlands, he and his wife split their time between the UK and the sun of Mozambique. His approach to business is grounded in flexibility, intentional design, and creating a life that aligns with what matters most.
Welcome And Meet Sam
SPEAKER_00Welcome to NinjaCast, a photography podcast powered by Studio Ninja, the world's highest-rated business management app, built specifically for photographers. Listen and learn as the most successful photographers on the planet share their knowledge to help you transform every element of your photography business. Here's your host, Sally Shaw.
SPEAKER_01Hi, Sam. It's lovely to have you on the show. How are you?
SPEAKER_02Very good, Sally. It's great to be here. Thanks for inviting me.
SPEAKER_01Not a problem. Thank you for giving up the time in your busy schedule. I know you've told me you've just moved house, so what a frantic time to be jumping on a podcast, but I really appreciate it.
SPEAKER_02No problem. Yeah, a bit chaotic, but there we go. Fun to be here. Thank you.
SPEAKER_01Indeed. So talk to me a little bit about yourself. If you can give me a bit of an introduction for our listeners that might not know who you are and how that's relevant to our industry.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, of course. So I do a couple of things relevant photographers. Um, first thing is I co-host a podcast for photographers called Commercial Photographer. I do that with Marcus Ahmed. Um, I kind of bring in the marketing business side, he brings in the photography creative side, and kind of that's that's that's where we meet. Um so that's part or two photographer. I also run website for photographers, which is a uh website and marketing company. So we help photographers get found on Google, get their websites working for them and getting them leads and so on. And I've kind of my I'm kind of an amateur photographer now, um, especially here. I live in Mozambique and the wildlife is stunning. So I've bought them those huge lenses and go out and can go and see the elephants and things, which is just amazing. And I I did start there. Uh I live here, I've lived here for uh six years.
SPEAKER_01Wow. What what caused the move?
SPEAKER_02So I'm actually over here with my wife's work. Um we're about to we're about to change and go hybrid, so because I my work's mainly in the UK, so we're gonna we've just got our house in the UK, so we're now gonna kind of do a bit of back and forth, a bit of time here, a bit of time there, and and so on.
Getting Traffic Beyond SEO
SPEAKER_01Wonderful. So I know that we've kind of briefly discussed already um kind of the the key areas we want to touch on and educate on in today's podcast, which is great. One of the biggest challenges I think business owners in general, not necessarily just photographers um or wedding industry suppliers um that struggle with is simply getting people to their website, getting eyeballs on their website. So, what are the most effective methods that you've seen in driving more business to a website?
SPEAKER_02So there's a few different ways and a few different ways to look at it. So, I mean, um SEO is always great, and that's a big complicated topic all on its own. But actually, you first need to do other things. So for those who aren't 100% sure, SEO means getting people from Google onto your website, and AI is referring to that a bit, but it still exists, and lots of people still do Google searches. Um, but actually, one of the things Google uses to judge your website is how much traffic you've got. So you've actually got to get traffic from other places too. So I think that that's definitely one to kind of aim for in the longer term because eventually, if just kind of people are coming naturally from finding it, that's amazing, but that does not happen overnight. Um so I think that's a definitely a good long-term aim along with the AI searches. But yeah, what can you do in the meantime to get people to your site if you have if either it's new or you've been going a while, but you're looking at the traffic and going, oh god, yeah, there's not a lot here. What can you do? Um and one of the things actually is think about all your other homes in the web. So your Google business, you know, which gives you Google Maps and so on, um, your social media, your if you've got guest blogs, if you're on directories, all of those points around the web, actually a lot of things look at. So, like when Google's judging your business, it's not just going, oh, that's a lovely website. It's actually finding all those touch points around the web. And the more you've got, and the more they're on quality places and the more consistent they are, and the more that they've got recent content, then that really helps you. So, you know, having 16 social channels that do nothing isn't great. But if you've got like really good, relevant Facebook that's constantly going, that's business name matches your website name, and the same on, say, Instagram, and you've picked two to focus on, and then you're on Google Business, and again, your name on that matches your website and matches your social. I've met so many photographers where they've actually got a slightly different business name in each place, and it's just like the robots are not gonna put the dots together here, or the people who find you, frankly.
Social Channels And Google Business
SPEAKER_01Yeah, of course. So there's quite a lot of channels, if you like, then that we can um establish business from online. How should we be dealing with those differently? Should they have different methodology, if you like, in how we approach different each of those channels?
SPEAKER_02Um what do you mean by different methodologies? What in terms of the way you put content on them or approach them?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so the why the way we work with them. So, for example, should we be working with um Google Maps or ads that in the same way that we're working with our Instagram and our Facebook accounts?
SPEAKER_02So I mean they're they're all a bit different. So I mean the socials kind of work in their own way, don't they? And they've all got slightly different, but the key with socials isn't it. I mean, in my mind, the key with socials is to kind of build followers and build um a community and then try and move those towards your website and your mailing list and that sort of thing, because they're great where they are, but they don't tend to buy where they are. Um, but it's great for building those communities. Um, and like I said, they're great assignpts to your business for Google and so on. So that kind of works both ways there. Google Maps and Google Business, which are different names for the same thing, again, that's really, really important. Um make your map entry really carefully. Think about what you do there. A lot of people just throw something together, but actually, it can make a massive difference to your business. You really need to be really thoughtful about what your category is. But to me, the biggest thing on there is reviews. Reviews are massive. You if you look, if you do a search for, I don't know, photographers in Nottingham, wedding photographers in Nottingham, one of the biggest differentiators is simply how many reviews they get. And if you do that search, the person at the top is not going to have two reviews, they're gonna have 50 or 100.
Turning Visitors Into Leads
SPEAKER_01Yeah, for sure. So once we've established that people are on our website, the next challenge is turning those visitors into established leads and good quality ones at that. So, what are some of the biggest mistakes you see with your clients that they're making at that stage?
SPEAKER_02Um so there's all sorts of things. Uh, one of the biggest is is who you talk about, so actually, this is quite common with a lot of photographers, is they're talking about themselves. And they say, I'm a photographer, I've done this, and I've done that, and I do and the page goes on and on and on. Now, somebody's coming to your website because they want a wedding photographing, or they want they're like, Oh, I need something for LinkedIn urgently. The boss says I need it and I need a photographer, and they're thinking about themselves, they're not thinking about you, and yeah, they need to know your photographer. So the website should always be focused on the person reading it. It's much more engaging to them. So, one of the things I do with people is I do a review and say, right, how many times, very simply, does your website say I or variation versus you or variation? And the you should be way, way more common than the I. So that's the first thing is you need to engage the engage the reader with the first thing is is you're talking to them and talking about their problems, you're not waffling on that 20 years ago you did that and you've lost them. They're not interested. They want to know if you can shoot their edding, yeah. Um, so that's a big one. And then call to actions the next, because I I mean call to actions are the kind of the key. So a call to action means something that you want the person on the website to do. The entire point of your website is you want someone to visit it, and then you want someone to do something before they leave. Otherwise they go, oh, that's lovely, and then they go make a cup of tea and browse Instagram, and you've lost them. So you want them to do something, and what is it? And and it might be you have a couple of call to actions on your website. It might be you've got a free download that you want them to do. It might be that you want them to book a call, it might be you want to fill in a form, whatever it is, but you need to make it very clear what it is, first of all. Huge, big, bold button, do this. Um you need to repeat it endlessly. Um, I know sometimes when we build websites for people, like sometimes they'll we sometimes get feedback and go, it's a bit repetitive, isn't it? And we go, yeah, people are not gonna read your whole website like a book like you do. They're gonna jump around and so you need these call to actions again and again and again and again. And they've also got to be tempting. So, you know, you know, spend£2,000 now isn't that tempting? You know, book a call. Why? You know, maybe if you're a wedding photographer and you're going, you know, book a call, and by the end, I can give you five things to help with your wedding planning or whatever it is, but give people you've got to have a tempting call to action that's repeated again and again and again and again, and you're saying why they want to do it, what they're gonna get out of it, and then when they do that call to action, say it's a call, you're making sure you're delivering that too. Um, because yeah, loads of people have sites that are full of text, and you browse around and you browse around, and then you leave because you haven't had those call to actions. And the journey too. So sometimes your call to action might not be on the home page because it might be there's a home page, and maybe you do pet photography and some other photography. You want to kind of use your first call to actions and buttons to get people to the right page, and then on that page you've got your specific call to action. So customer visitor journey through the website is really important too. Some people don't think about that, you know. Well, usually land on the homepage. How are you going to get them to where you want to be? What are they going to do next? And don't get them in a loop. Some people have blogs, and blogs are amazing, but some people have blogs where the blogs take them to the website, and then the website takes them to the blogs, and they just go around and they never and then they leave when they get bored.
SPEAKER_01So, what would you say some of the most successful customer journeys on a website are that you've seen? What would be kind of a model journey?
SPEAKER_02So, a model journey is I mean, a model website would be a niche website, so you wouldn't really have pet photography along with your wedding photography and anything else. So a niche is really good. And I think to me, one or two call to actions, really specific ones, really targeted for your audience, that aren't sales, unless I mean most photographers aren't selling little things. If it's uh, you know, literally a LinkedIn headshot for that, you know, a cheap maybe. But for most people, it's about that engagement. Probably a call is what most photographers want, isn't it? A call or a meeting. So it's about repeating the message there. What are people gonna get from jumping on a call with you? You know, not a discovery call, you know, how tempting, you know, a really engaging call. So, like we say, if it's a wedding, you're thinking about what are those people's needs. If who normally calls you? Is it the bride? Is it the groom? Is it the mother of the bride? And then you think about so, you know, these guys are going through a pretty stressful time. They're doing a lot of planning. What could we do to make their life easier? And so we're thinking, how can we help them? How can we give them tools that are gonna make them think, I really want to click this, you know, I'm going mad with the wedding planning, my head's all over the place. And you'll say and you jump on a call and at the end of it, you're gonna send them this kind of 10-point wedding planner that really helps them simplify their wedding planning, or because you do love the wedding industry really well, you're gonna, you know, put them in contact with two of the best caterers, um, you know, and two of the best wedding flower places in the region that you know really well and were doing an amazing job.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. It's making your, I guess, your service stand out at the same time, isn't it?
SPEAKER_02That's it. Yeah, the service definitely needs to stand out as well. But because you're a photographer, you're not selling that right away. You know, your service is often thousand pounds, what are two, you know, thousands of pounds. So people are not gonna click and buy. So yeah, you've got to talk about your service, you're right, but not sell it. You've got to sell the that call to action though. What are they gonna gain from clicking that button, having the meeting, getting the download, whatever it is.
SPEAKER_01So often with with photographers, but I guess wedding industry suppliers in general, um the I guess the most common customer journey is that the potential bride or groom would kind of look through the website, have a look at the portfolio, learn a little bit more about you as a person, because especially in the photography, you know, we can be with them for 10, 12 hours a day. So who we are as people behind the business is really important. Um then generally the next step is that they fill out a contact form, usually. So they would give ideas of when their wedding date is, where it is, what they've planned so far, where they're up to in their journey of planning. Um, and depending on how that photographer works, it's either they're requesting prices because prices aren't on their website, or they are looking for more information on pricing. I mean, my prices are on my website, clear as day, under an investment tab. Um, and yet I still receive inquiries that ask how much I charge.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, because you got it's because everyone's journey is different. So some people have gone to your homepage, gone to your contact form, fill it in, they won't have looked. So yeah, you always have to remember people are, yeah, some people will look and some people will carefully look at everybody's website, and some people will ignore it, and some people will even see it and and be trying it on, and you know, there's so many different variations. Um, and sometimes the pricing you put on the website, you know, isn't always what's what happened. I don't yeah, obviously I'll not say it for you, but you know, some people are just putting example prices, and really you need to know more details to get it.
SPEAKER_01Um yeah, I think I think it's definitely um a process in securing that that entirety of that booking um in the wedding industry in general, I guess. You know, not just for wedding photographers, but the florists, the venues, the um, everybody that's involved. Um, so it's that um I know website kind of getting those leads from a website in the first place is definitely something that our industry struggles with as a whole. There's a lot of photographers out there that, you know, the the traffic just isn't making it to their website.
Choosing The Right Lead Sources
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's it. And then that's when you need to, well, that's when you need to think, how do I want to get those leads? So do you want it through your website? So I think that's one of the first things. Often I'd talk to people and oh, I definitely need SEO. And and some people do and some people don't. But the key is to really think about your marketing and think, well, how are you gonna get your leads? And for some people, they might go to a load of wedding fairs that gets them all their leads. And so their website then is not at all about getting found on Google. Their website is about when people come home from the wedding phone, they've got the lovely glossy broch and some cards, when they're checking you out online that it just looks the business, and that's all it needs to do. Yeah, um, and it doesn't matter if that person gets five visits a month, if those people are all booking expensive weddings and they're the right five people, it's fine. And then getting found on Google is irrelevant to you. So I think that's really important is thinking about, yeah, how do you want to get your leads and how are you going to do it? And for some people, the Google search is right and you've got to work on that, and for others, it really doesn't matter. You're doing it in other ways as long as the business is coming in.
Sam’s Path Into Web Work
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely. I forgot to ask you about kind of your background, Salmon, how you, you know, how did you get into doing this service and working with wedding industry professionals on their websites?
SPEAKER_02Um, so I work with photographers in general, uh, rather than kind of wedding in particular. Um, I mean, my very first job was carrying the bags for my dad, who was a wedding photographer. No. Um so you know, I was 16 or whatever, and carrying, you know, carry using the reflectors, carrying around, and then eventually I was there with my little Canon AV1 snapping, snapping the casual shots while dad was doing the kind of it was, you know, back then in the 90s, it was very much the formal wedding shots for what everybody had. But yeah, so I guess we were kind of a little bit pining because I'd go around with a little camera and shoot the kind of the casual behind the scenes type of things. Um back then, and then obviously left that um left that behind, always had photography as a hobby. Um went through doing various things. I was a teacher for uh a long time, 13 years. Um, left that and set up a web design business, and then kind of was looking for who am I gonna help with the web design business and kind of eventually went, right, okay, I'm gonna look at helping photographers with my kind of enjoyment of photography I already had. Um it just kind of seemed to fit the bill.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, definitely. Oh, well, that's fantastic. Well, thank you so much for all of the the tips that you've given there. I think definitely I've got some food for thought there on um, you know, what I need to go away and do on my website. Um I'm definitely that prime culprit that doesn't get as many um as many eyeballs on my on my website as I would like. So um I've I've been uh making notes as we speak.
Career Reflections And Deliberate Work
SPEAKER_02Excellent.
SPEAKER_01If if you could start your career all over again, Sam, is there anything that you'd do differently? Anything that you um you would approach differently?
SPEAKER_02My whole career, that's it, that's an interesting reserve. Yeah, I've done so many different things. I've been on support desks, I've done project management, I've done teaching. Um I don't think so. I might have left teaching slightly earlier, moved on when it was time for Eddie. I think, oh yeah, maybe that a little bit too long. But no, apart from that, I've kind of enjoyed the way it's gone and it's worked with my lifestyle. I've kind of more moved to the running my own business when I needed to help with the kids and stuff. So I've been pretty pleased with how it's all gone.
SPEAKER_01Awesome. And what's one final piece of advice that you might be able to give to our listeners? Something that's made a big difference in your business life as a as an owner of a business.
SPEAKER_02Um I think just do things deliberately. So don't just stick in the hamster wheel and you just day to day and you didn't and you're not thinking, stop, think, plan, look ahead. Just you know, it just makes so much difference.
SPEAKER_01I love that advice. That's really good because it's so easy to, like you say, just get in that hamster wheel of the recurring things you do day in, week out. You know, it's it it you you kind of get stuck in that sometimes, don't you?
SPEAKER_02Oh, definitely. It's very easy. Yeah, yeah. Especially with the Photoshop, I think is the worst for photographers. Oh, just I could just edit that one a little bit more, and it's like, well, stop. Maybe you could stop and spend an hour on your marketing instead, and that could really grow your business.
SPEAKER_01I lose days inside of Lightroom.
SPEAKER_02That's it.
Where To Find Sam
SPEAKER_01Well, thank you so much for joining us, Sam. It's been such a pleasure chatting to you. Um, if our listeners would like to find out more about you, where's the best place for them to get in touch?
SPEAKER_02Okay, best place to get in touch is you uh a couple of websites. It's either our podcast, which is commercial hyphen photographer hyphenpodcast.com, or website for photographers.co.uk, and that's with their number four in the middle.
SPEAKER_01Amazing. That's perfect.
SPEAKER_02Or find me on LinkedIn.
SPEAKER_01Yes, yeah, LinkedIn as well. But it's been awesome getting to know you, and um, I'd better shoot and get those changes done to my website sometime soon.
SPEAKER_02Amazing. Great to speak to you. Thanks so much.
SPEAKER_01Bye.
SPEAKER_02Bye.
SPEAKER_00Thanks for listening to this episode of NinjaCast, brought to you by Studio Ninja. Beautifully designed and super easy to use, Studio Ninja will help you manage your leads, clients, shoutes, invoices, contracts, workflows, and so much more. To learn more or start your 30 day free trial, go to www.studioNinja.co.