137: Sam Docker - How To Adapt, Stay Creative & Future-Proof Your Wedding Business

Sam Docker is an award-winning wedding photographer based in Derby, known for his creative approach that blends documentary storytelling with editorial-inspired imagery. With over a decade of experience and more than 300 weddings photographed across the UK and Europe, Sam has built a reputation for creating authentic, emotional images that capture not just how a wedding looked, but how it felt. Drawing inspiration from art, fashion, architecture, and design, his work is modern, timeless, and deeply personal. 

Beyond photographing weddings, Sam is passionate about helping photographers build sustainable, long-lasting careers. He regularly educates and mentors creatives, sharing his thoughts on evolving your style, staying inspired, and adapting to an ever-changing wedding industry. Through his podcast and YouTube channel, Another Idea, he explores creativity, business, and the challenges of building a successful career in the creative industries. 

Based at Brickwork Studio in the heart of Derby, Sam continues to photograph weddings throughout the UK and internationally. His philosophy is simple: create honest, meaningful photographs that stand the test of time while constantly pushing himself creatively with every wedding he captures.

Transcript

Welcome And Industry Check-In

SPEAKER_00 0:03

Welcome to the photography podcast, outfits PDI and Justice, the world's highest rated business management aspects, specifically for photographers. Listen and let us the most successful photographers on the planet share their knowledge to help you transform every element of your photography business. Here's your host, Sally Shaw.

SPEAKER_01 0:30

Hello, hello, hello. How are you doing?

SPEAKER_03 0:32

I'm very good, thank you. Yeah. Yeah, it's always very surreal when you have that like hello introduction, but we've just been chatting for five minutes before that call. But it's fine. People don't need to know about our uh our life issues. Like everybody's doing this stuff, aren't they?

SPEAKER_01 0:45

We've put the world to rights for half an hour before.

SPEAKER_03 0:50

No, things are good. Yeah. It's um yeah, it's been a it's been a strange few years work-wise, but all all good. Um yeah, feeling quite positive about about the next sort of year or two. And a bit of there's a lot of uncertainty, I think. But um, yeah, on the whole, I'm all right.

SPEAKER_01 1:06

Good.

SPEAKER_03 1:06

How are you?

SPEAKER_01 1:07

I'm all right, yeah. Same, same things. Like like personal life dramas are all aflow, which is as normal, isn't it? All um, other than that, it's it's all right. I've I've got a quieter year on the wedding side of things, but I'm grateful for it, to be honest, this year. So um it's all the everything works out for a reason, doesn't it? So

Bookings Down After The Boom

SPEAKER_01 1:27

yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:27

Yeah. Yeah, I think uh I think that I think a lot of people would echo that sentiment, though, wouldn't they? That everyone is seen. I haven't really spoken to anybody that I that I think is really busy this year. Most most photography industry are like, yeah, bookings are down, like, period. That is it. Um so it's uh yeah, it's a it's a very strange time. I think since yeah, certainly since COVID, like this is the first real dip that we've all had to deal with. Um and for a lot of photographers, it's probably the first dip they've had to deal with because COVID drove a lot of people into the industry. And you know, this might be the first experience they're having of going, oh god, it's a bit tight this year. Got to be careful.

SPEAKER_01 2:06

Absolutely. Obviously, you've been shooting wedding town for 14 years, am I right?

SPEAKER_03 2:10

Yeah, this is year 14, yeah. Yeah, wild. Absolutely

Falling Into Wedding Photography

SPEAKER_03 2:13

wild.

SPEAKER_01 2:13

Looking back, what drew you into the industry?

SPEAKER_03 2:16

Um I mean, lots of things really. Uh I don't think it's ever something that people kind of go into. Um I don't think, I don't think you can't, I think people naturally just fall into the industry, don't you? I think we all when we all look back on how we got into it, it was like a happy accident. Like I just bought uh I just bought a film camera off eBay. I've still got it. I still actually I've started shooting with it this year at weddings, which is mad because it's been off my desk for about 12 years doing nothing. And um and I just I just absolutely fell in love with just the process of taking images. And I'd already done kind of a bit of photography, but it it took a few other things to fall into place for me to kind of go, oh, maybe there is maybe there's an opportunity here. And it was literally just friends that I knew getting married. Um, and they said, look, we haven't got a photographer, would you, you know, would you help out? And it's like, yeah, of course we would. But if I'm gonna do it, I want I want to be paid a little bit because I'm you know, I want to take it seriously. I don't want to be the guest that's a friend and just, you know, I want to treat it as a professional thing. And just, you know, you look back and you kind of go, God, that that just snow that snowballed very quickly. Yeah, you know, it really did. I mean, I I bet you've probably got a similar story, right? I think it's uh kind of like just one of those things that we and and then you kind of it's sink or swim, I think, for people in that position. Like you kind of you shoot it and you either absolutely go bonkers in love with it, and you're like, Yeah, this is like I don't do drugs, but is this what like crack cocaine's like? Or or you go, God, that absolutely terrified the living Jesus out of me. I'm not going near that again. Um I was doing both.

SPEAKER_01 3:50

I was I enjoyed the day and I like I was full of adrenaline and I love being around the people and I loved capturing and creating, but then I hundred percent got home, walked in, and turned to my partner and went, I'm never, ever, ever doing that ever again.

SPEAKER_03 4:09

And then and you're now 14, 13, 14 years down the line, aren't you?

SPEAKER_01 4:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:13

So there must have been something there for you though to want to go back.

SPEAKER_01 4:16

I think I think there has to be that like any any photographer that's been in the industry, you know, a decent amount of time, you're a few years in, you don't do it if you don't love it.

SPEAKER_03 4:26

Because you And I think there are some people that come into it that think they can use it as a way to make a quick book or whatever. You know, like that that gets found out very, very quickly in this industry. Yeah. You know, um, there has to be at the absolute heart of what you do, like a real joy and a passion for for for capturing moments and people and events. And if you don't have that, it doesn't matter. You you you've you've got to, haven't you, at the end of the day. And yeah, like even 13, 14 years in, I still go to weddings kind of with some nerves in my, you know, like a little knot in my stomach sometimes. Not maybe not as much as it maybe did in the first, you know, first year or two, but definitely like uh there's like an expectation to to cat, you know, just I suppose it's like an internal pressure that I put on myself. Like I always want to just do a great job. And um, yeah, I still still go to weddings. I say with a bit of nervous, I still go to weddings and I'm absolutely buzzing about it. Like the uncertainty, I think it's the uncertainty, isn't it, that that we all kind of that scares us a little bit, but it's that bit that I kind of like I really thrive on, I think. And just yeah, like not knowing what you're gonna get, but knowing that if you go through the process and you work through what you know works, then you just capture things that you could just, yeah. It's just

Nerves, Pressure, Work Ethic

SPEAKER_03 5:41

there's not it's just such a great joy, isn't it, when you kind of you see you work and you reflect and you go, God yeah, I did that.

SPEAKER_01 5:46

Yeah. Were you nervous when you got my wedding?

SPEAKER_03 5:50

Yes and no. I think there's always like a like I suppose it's like anything. Like again, uh, you have to sort of separate yourself from knowing the person a little bit. Like, you know, I obviously I knew you, I knew that you're a photographer, so there's that element, but I I think you have to try and just put that to the to the back of your mind, yeah. Um, and just focus on the process. You can't you can't control a wedding, like you know, they are an organic, moving uh uh vehicle, aren't they? And you have to just kind of get on the vehicle and just go with it. And yeah, I mean when was that? Was that six that six years ago?

SPEAKER_01 6:23

2019.

SPEAKER_03 6:25

Seven seven years or yeah, wow, yeah. Um I mean this goes by an ish credot, doesn't it? It's frightening.

SPEAKER_01 6:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:32

Um but um have you have you shot photographers' weddings?

SPEAKER_01 6:36

Yeah, a couple.

SPEAKER_03 6:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:37

I think the same thing. Like I I was a hundred percent like, oh shit, this is another photographer.

SPEAKER_03 6:43

Like, really, but it's a massive compliment, right?

SPEAKER_01 6:45

Yeah, 100%. You're like you you've got that pressure that you put on yourself, like you say, where you're like, I've got to nail this. Like this has got to be like one of the best weddings I've ever shot. Um, but then when you're in it and you arrive, it's just like they're just they're just a client, they're just another client. You've just got to treat it.

SPEAKER_03 7:01

In the nicest possible way.

SPEAKER_01 7:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:02

Yeah. And and if you're not focused on doing your job and doing the thing that you know that you're meant to do, like the day the day goes by frighteningly fast. Yeah. You know, I've always had this approach and this mentality that I'm here and I've got to give everything to my couples, but I've got to make sure that I'm making the most out of every sort of part of the day. Um because if I don't, and if I leave, I then start to feel I would, I would, if I didn't do that, I'd feel guilty that I've not given my all. Um I'll never forget, I mean I'll never name names, but I'll never forget working with a videographer couple in the in the second year maybe of doing it. And they spent more time in their car than they did at the wedding. And I and I'll never forget leaving thinking, like you just you just haven't given your couple everything today. You haven't. And they they're gonna see and know that. Um, and I was I think I'd already got a good work ethic before anyway, but that really cemented it for me of going, I'm never gonna be that person. Like I might not be the I might, you know, I might self-criticize I might criticize myself with my work sometimes. I might not think I'm you know up there with some of these great photographers that I look at, but you know what? I'm gonna work hard and I'm gonna give everything I can give. And that's that's often m most of the battle, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 8:17

I think yeah, that's all your couples are ever gonna want from you. You know, they book they book you because they love what you do and they love that, you know, they have that connection with you, they love the work that you create. So if you know you've given 110% to that wedding day, then you know, yeah, you've done your job, haven't

Adapting Style Without Copying

SPEAKER_01 8:32

you? So you um you shared a post recently that sparked a lot of discussion, shall we say, online.

SPEAKER_03 8:39

Yeah. Yeah. If it's the one that I think you're where you're going.

SPEAKER_01 8:42

Yeah. Do you want to run me through that kind of from your perspective?

SPEAKER_03 8:44

So I just I think it was just a bit of a it was just a bit of a random post, just talking about how, you know, I'm I I I shoot now on a 15 to 35, you know, and I've always been a prime shooter. I take images that are slightly skewed sometimes, which again I never would have done. I use flash during the daytime, which again I would never have done five years ago. You know, I'm shooting film, which again I never would have done. And I think I was just trying to make the point around how not just as a photographer, but as a business, you have to kind of adapt and evolve. Um and I think it's really dangerous when you're a business if you don't. I think I think a point that maybe people might slightly misunderstood was me saying, look, sometimes you have to listen to like what the market is saying and listen to the trends, you know, and how that can influence your work. And and I wasn't for a second saying you have to copy what other people are doing. It was always, it was much more about you have to, as a business owner, be aware of the market trends. And it's okay for you if you want to go and experiment with those or not. That's your decision. But I think sometimes you've got to have a bit of an awareness of what's happening in the world and in the market and what people are after, and what you know, that's not to say you've got to start all of a sudden taking huge photos with flash during the day. That's not what I'm saying. But you have to be able to experiment. I think you have to give time in your business, especially our businesses that are creative, you have to give time to experimenting, playing, being creative, trying new things, and put your own take on it. And yeah, I think if you are the opposite of that, which is no, this is how I do it, this is how I've always done it, just think that puts you in a really dangerous place and it it puts your business in a really vulnerable position because you know it's like the the age-old saying, isn't it? That you know, those that don't evolve die, you know, and ultimately I I don't know about anybody else, but I've lost a business before. I had I had a business before this that wasn't in the world of photography. And I'll never forget looking back on why that business failed, and it was really because we never adapted and we never evolved. We we kept doing what we thought worked and what we thought was going to, you know, generate results. And then when the landscape shifted and changed, and we didn't change with it, the business went under. And yeah, I I can kind of see where people were coming from with no going, oh no, you've got to do what you believe is like, yes, but you can also play, be creative, experiment, try new things, yeah, and still put out your work and be true to what you you know, what you see as as right as a photographer. And I even though I take those images now, I still think they're my images and that they are my they've got my feel to them, like because that's me. I I'm not doing something that's completely outrageous, you know. I'm not doing spot colour yet. But like, you know, let's hope that doesn't come back around. But you know, never say never. Like you just don't know, do you?

SPEAKER_01 11:41

Would you do it though?

SPEAKER_03 11:43

No, it would take a lot, it would take a lot. I I couldn't although you although you say that, you say that, and this is this is how the world works, right? And this is how trends and fashions evolve and happen. Yeah, I I I went where was the day? I was in Manchester over the weekend and I saw an advert for a beer company and they were using spot colour on a huge on a huge advert. And I it just made me kind of think and go, okay, is is something like is that the start of maybe some because people are after if you think about why these trends have come back around a little bit, it's because people are trying to get your attention. You know, they want it's an attention thing, right? And I suppose it's up to you as a photographer in a business to decide whether that brings or adds value to your product as a photographer.

SPEAKER_01 12:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:31

So yeah. I think it opened a can of worms.

SPEAKER_01 12:34

Yeah, I can imagine. I

Trends, Tools, And Audience Demand

SPEAKER_01 12:36

think going back to what you were talking about with um with trends and styles and things evolving, we we're so quick as business owners to make it about us, and we're so quick to say, you know, this is my style, this is what I do, and that's great, and absolutely everybody should be confident in what they do and what they produce and and who they are as a business owner. But I think really what feeds into what you were saying is actually it's nothing to do with what we produce, who we are and what we do. The demand changes as years goes on, and what couples changes as years goes goes on. Do do the couples that I serve now, do they want the same things as the couples wanted when I started out nearly 15 years ago? Absolutely not. Completely, completely different clientele.

SPEAKER_03 13:24

So your your principles, your principles as a photographer can still stay true and relevant. Like you can let's I think part of the part of it was like the whole like now I still take images and they've got to be level and landscape. Like, okay, yeah, well, I I still take images that are level and landscape, and I still take the portraits that I've been taking for 10 years, you know, but I've also added other layers to my work. So like the flash, like the slightly skewed, like the motion blur. Like they are, I think somebody commented on it was like, yeah, that's spot on. They're like, it's trying to see it as a creative tool in your toolbox on a wedding day. Like, not every image has to be hugely creative and different. It can just be a really simple, like in-focus, perfect portrait of a guest that sat at a table. That's fine. But sometimes it's good just to mix it up a little bit and just go, okay, well, I've got that shot. What else can I do that's gonna maybe inspire or or or generate something for my couple that means that it's just more than just a what you know? Yeah. I'm kind of going off on that. Look, those are little tangents here, but that is really what I'm I'm looking at. It's like, look, just try things. Make you make the decision, it's your business. You get to do what you want to do at the end of the day, yeah. But just be careful.

SPEAKER_01 14:37

Yeah, 100%. Why is it that you think so many photographers struggle with the idea of adapting or trying something new or because I think that's probably, you know, it's I think we get comfortable.

SPEAKER_03 14:50

Yeah, I think we get comfortable. Um, and I I kind of thought about this earlier when we were talking about like the how long we've been in business. Like, you know, you you're not in business for 14 years without having to make yourself feel a bit uncomfortable and try new things.

unknown 15:06

Yeah.

Marketing Shifts And Discomfort

SPEAKER_03 15:07

You know, like again, look at how the marketing landscape has shifted in five years, let alone the last 15. You know, you will you and I will be able to there'll be people listening to this that don't even know what it's like to post an image to Facebook. They just won't. Yeah, but that is how it used to, that's what used to happen.

SPEAKER_01 15:24

That's how we used to do it.

SPEAKER_03 15:25

And then Instagram comes out, and then then all of a sudden everyone's kicking off because you've got to do stories, then they're kicking off because you've got to do videos, then TikTok comes, and it's like it's never ending. But that is your job as a business owner is to put yourself in front of your audience, and you you've you've got to be able to move with those those those times, because if you don't, you're gonna disappear. It's as simple as that. Um I don't know what your question was kind of like you know, when you start talking, you kind of go, um, yeah, I think it's I it was about, yeah, I think it's I think we get comfortable, and I think uh, you know, photographers, humans just generally don't often like being made to feel uncomfortable. And change is something that makes you feel uncomfortable. And the the better you get at changing or just adapting and moving a little bit, the the longer you're gonna be in business for.

SPEAKER_01 16:19

Yeah. Obviously, we were talking about being creative and pushing ourselves to be creative and and try new things.

Burnout, Boundaries, Work Life Balance

SPEAKER_01 16:26

On the flip side of that, have you ever felt burnt out in your 14 years?

SPEAKER_03 16:29

And oh God, absolutely burnt out, yeah. Um yeah, I just think it's just about you know, may maybe, maybe more so in the opening sort of three or four years, you know, doing it's the volume thing for me. Yeah. You know, um, doing north of 50, 60 weddings. It's just it's just not sustainable. You know, and you see people doing it now, and and we've you know, we've had this discussion with AI and stuff recently as well about how people are able to expedite that editing process and they call it, and it's like, okay, great, but just you know, I've heard people doing north of 100 weddings now. You know, it's like some people some and it's like you you cannot turn up to a wedding six months into the year having shops 60, 70 weddings and be like, yeah, I'm I'm I'm here for you guys.

SPEAKER_02 17:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:18

There's a part of you who's gonna be absolutely knacked. And you know, I I talk about this very openly, and I've talked about it on like education stuff. You know, I love this job in this industry, but the one downside is that it's generally weekend work and it's really hard to have a uh a balance of work and life, and like especially when you're having a family, it's so difficult. And I think it's a trap a lot of photographers don't often see coming. Um so yeah, I kind of again move that on a little bit. But yeah, burnout, I think it's just giving yourself like some some rules and some boundaries, I think is probably the biggest thing that I could recommend. Like if I was doing it again, I'd be like, right, I'm having one weekend off every month throughout the summer. Like, I'm not gonna book a wedding on one, you know, one weekend of every month through that six-month window.

SPEAKER_02 18:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:09

Because you need it. You know, I I remember doing some years where I wouldn't I wouldn't start from May to October. I'd be I'd work every weekend. Some it was one, some it was two, some it was three. And it it takes its toll.

SPEAKER_02 18:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:22

Um so yeah, just giving yourself some kind of boundaries and and I do think people are much more aware of you know, our own, um, yeah, their their sort of their mental health, their physical well-being, their balance. I think the new generation coming through are a lot more in tune with that than maybe, you know, I'm 42, 43, 42. I think I'm 42. Like, yeah, but I think like I'm just on the end edge of that generation that was like, you get out there and you work bloody hard. And I'm not saying you don't get out there and work hard, but you you also have to do it with a bit of balance and you know, a bit of care for yourself.

SPEAKER_01 18:58

I know what you mean. I think I think there's definitely more awareness around, you know, giving yourself down time and giving yourself work-life balance and making sure that you're not burning out and burning at both ends. And I'd I that didn't necessarily it was that wasn't the the priority kind of 10, 15 years ago. The priority was, like you say, work and work and work and work. And you know, that's very much I came into this industry, but I came into kind of my working career, if you like, from being the age of like 15, 16. And I've always been referred to as a workaholic because I just don't stop. I always I'm always juggling a couple of jobs at once, I'm always doing multiple things. And when I'm not working, I'm picking up extra work or I'm finding extra things to do.

SPEAKER_03 19:41

And it's yeah, you're you know, you're a grafter. Um, and I don't think it's a bad trait, but I think you know, it's just having a bit of an awareness of going, okay, so I do need to have a break sometime, you know, I do need to stop here and there.

SPEAKER_01 19:50

I'm terrible at that.

unknown 19:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:52

I for me, uh like I'm I'm I'm self-diagnosed at ADHD, and I'm like, I'm I'm pretty sure that is it. Like there's no there's no off switch for me. You know, I'm I'm always thinking of things, even if I go on holiday, holidays are the worst because when I'm trying to rest, that's when my mind goes into overdrive. And I'm like, okay, I have a better idea. So yeah, yeah, it's a tough one.

SPEAKER_01 20:13

So after what you've built so far, obviously you're 14 years in, you've got the education side of things, you're still shooting weddings.

Building A Safer Workflow System

SPEAKER_01 20:20

What's the future hold?

SPEAKER_03 20:21

Yeah. Uh yeah, I mean, uh you know, it's it's a strange time at the minute. I kind of feel like I'm a bit of a cross a little bit of a crossroads. Like education has taken a bit of a back seat lately. Um, I'm I'm kind of in two minds as to how much I want to start pushing that. I do I like I love helping photographers, it it's something I've always enjoyed. Um, but I'm in a position where I've got a few other spec plates spinning and I'm just trying to kind of weigh up what my options are. I've you know, I've just very recently when will this go out, by the way? Can I talk to you? It's fine, I'll keep it in. Yeah, like so I've I've basically built a program that I I'm really excited about that I think kind of sold is basically geared towards the very initial stages of that backup and ingest process that photographers go through um and also into culling. But it's not AI, it's about safety, backup. It's the boring stuff, but in a hopefully a slightly more visual and aesthetic way than maybe the apps that are out there at the minute. And uh I'm this week I'm releasing that to um 15 photographers for testing, which is exciting. Um so yeah, we'll see where we'll see where that goes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:25

And then Wow, that's it. Yeah, it's just one of those things. It's one of those things.

SPEAKER_03 21:30

Yeah, I I I so from doing all the teaching, I always find that so many photographers, one of the biggest issues is like, how do I deal with the volume of images that I'm dealing with? Like, how do I go from like not shooting weddings to like where do you put folders? How do you deal with stuff? And I just thought, right, do you know what? If I could, if I could build something from absolute scratch, what would it look like? And I've basically built a product that does that. So you put your card in, you know, you've got two drives connected. It automatically you just have to literally put in the couple's name and the date, and it sends them off to both drives. straight through folder structures, allows you to call, and then just moves the images around so that you don't have to kind of manually drag and drop stuff. It's just like, okay, you know, the traffic light system, so you know everything's safe. It's got an art like active project screen so that you kind of you know what you're working on at the time. You know, it's going to have an online backup solution as well built into it. So that, you know, there's things there that I'm like, okay, how do I just make what I need to be as simple and as clean and as almost as idiot proof as possible. Like that's that's how I want it to I want it to be like you don't know what this is, but you're going to put a card and you're going to know you're just going to instinctively know how to to work it. So that was the that was the foundation. So we'll see where that we'll see where that goes. Um and yeah still shooting weddings still doing a bit of mentoring so yeah good stuff. That's kind of it yeah in a nutshell where where things are at. Exciting

Redefining Success And Staying Honest

SPEAKER_03 22:51

do you feel like what you deem as your success now has changed from when you first started um I don't know I find success a really difficult word to I I don't really see myself as successful in that sense. I I have I I have struggle like some some like this year is is is going to be a struggle. Like I look at the numbers and I'm like okay shit like this is this is going to be tricky like something's got to change over the course of this year for me to feel okay.

SPEAKER_02 23:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:20

Um you know I I I don't I don't I don't ever look at myself yeah I you know I've completely got this figured out you know there's a still a huge element of like we're all just making this up as we go.

SPEAKER_02 23:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:33

You know I think social media's probably got a lot to answer for there hasn't it I think people see what you're doing and think you know think that you you're doing really well but it's not always the case. Like don't get me wrong there are times I've done incredibly well and I'm I'm really proud of you know launching a course I did a few years ago and you know having some of the most successful years of my life but stuff's happened since like you know we've talked personally we've talked about life stuff and it does it takes it's it means you take your eye off the prize a little bit but you have to kind of get back on with it. And I feel like I'm in that transition now of going, okay, where do I want to be in the next sort of four or five years. So yeah it's a it's a tricky one. I I take what other people are putting out on social as well with a pinch of salt like I don't I don't try and get I don't get like too jealous of people that shout about what they're doing or you know it's just we're all we're all just plugging away aren't we doing our business and just trying to make the best of it.

SPEAKER_01 24:24

I love that I think that's a really humble place to to work from which you know as much as I know you don't see it Sam but there's a lot of photographers in the industry that are like oh Sam Docker like he's a legend of the industry like you know he you know people are I find that very very strange very strange well like I say it's also appreciated to operate from a very humble place which is lovely but there's definitely photographers that aspire to you know to operate like you do and to produce the work that you do. So um yeah I think it's nice for them necessarily to be able to hear you say do you know what this year isn't great and you know they're and yeah I think it's it's good for it for everybody to be able to have that open book of we're all in the same boat.

SPEAKER_03 25:09

Yeah.

New Podcast And What’s Next

SPEAKER_03 25:10

And I've also started a podcast as well whilst we're getting the the little plugs in. So yeah not this um so I started doing a podcast called Between Shoots which is kind of a a bit of a roaming podcast basically so just out on the road honest conversation with people like this very much but just without the Zoom interface. So yeah there's things there's things bubbling away that I'm like okay I don't know where they're gonna go but I'm gonna keep you know I think that's all you can do right it's just lean into the things that you believe in and that you're enjoying and I've got this kind of I don't know I suppose like the kind of inner belief that it's gonna work out. Yes and and you just have to like combine that with like a a work ethic and just grasp and keep going um and yeah we'll all we'll all be all right in the end won't we?

SPEAKER_01 25:52

We will all watch this space.

SPEAKER_00 25:53

Well

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SPEAKER_00 25:54

thank you so much for joining us Sam I really really appreciate it it's been so good to catch up again and I'll catch you thank you Sally great to chat to you and yeah thank you so much for giving some time and and again for for everything that Studio New I mean I couldn't I couldn't operate my business without you guys so the least I can do really is uh is giving you a bit of time oh we love you thank you Sam thank you and cheers Sandy later bye thanks for listening to this episode of NinjaCast brought to you by Studio Ninja beautifully designed and super easy to use Studio Ninja will help you manage your leads clients produce invoices contracts workflows and so much more to learn more or start your 30-day free trial go to www.studio ninja.co