Happy Hour Harmonica Podcast

Billy Branch interview

• Neil Warren • Season 1 • Episode 4

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Billy Branch is a Chicago blues harp player who grew up learning directly from some of the classic generation of Chicago players,  such as Carey Bell, James Cotton and Junior Wells.
And he played in Willie Dixons band for 6 years.

Billy has been nominated for three Grammy awards.
He has become a real ambassador of the blues and takes great pride in maintaining that legacy with his long term band, the Sons of the Blues.

A great technical exponent of the harmonica, with great soul, Billy released his latest album Roots and Branches in 2019.

Select the Chapter Markers tab above to select different sections of the podcast (website version only).

Some of the YouTube clips mentioned:
Turkish politicians:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8z8zxRESLU

'I am the Blues' concert with Willie Dixon:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwL_wohIEMw

Mellow Down Easy video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajrB-sC_MsI

If you would like an online lesson with Billy, you can contact him here:
billybranchmusic@gmail.com


Podcast website:
https://www.harmonicahappyhour.com

Donations:
If you want to make a voluntary donation to help support the running costs of the podcast then please use this link (or visit the podcast website link above):
https://paypal.me/harmonicahappyhour?locale.x=en_GB

Spotify Playlist:
Also check out the Spotify Playlist, which contains most of the songs discussed in the podcast:
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5QC6RF2VTfs4iPuasJBqwT?si=M-j3IkiISeefhR7ybm9qIQ

Podcast sponsors:
This podcast is sponsored by SEYDEL harmonicas - visit the oldest harmonica factory in the world at www.seydel1847.com  or on Facebook or Instagram at SEYDEL HARMONICAS
and Blows Me Away Productions: http://www.blowsmeaway.com/

SPEAKER_01:

Hi, Neil Warren here again and welcome to another episode of the Happy Hour Harmonica podcast with more interviews with some of the finest harmonica players around today. Be sure to subscribe to the podcast and also check out the Spotify playlist where some of the tracks discussed during the interviews can be heard. Billy Branch is a Chicago blues harp player who grew up learning directly from some of the classic generation of Chicago players such as Carrie Bell, James Cotton and Junior Wells and he played in Willie Dixon's band for six years. Billy has been nominated for three Grammy Awards. He has become a real ambassador of the blues and takes great pride in maintaining that legacy with his long-term band, the Sons of the Blues. A great technical exponent of the harmonica with great soul, Billy released his latest album, Roots and Branches, in 2019. Hello, Billy Branch, and welcome to the podcast.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, hi, Neil. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01:

It's a real pleasure to have you on. You're the first American I've had on this podcast, so it's great to get that.

SPEAKER_02:

All right. Oh, well, I'm honored.

SPEAKER_01:

We can start with a bit about yourself. So you currently live in Chicago. So when you were young, I understand you moved to Los Angeles for a little while and then back to Chicago to go to university.

UNKNOWN:

Yes.

SPEAKER_02:

That's correct.

SPEAKER_01:

So you went back to Chicago around the age of 18?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, about 17.

SPEAKER_01:

And so Chicago's a real mecca for the blues, yeah? So I assume that when you were 17, that's what it was like. It was still a real blues town then.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, it still is. But during those times, you had so many great artists that you could see. practically free on a nightly basis. I mean, literally hundreds were alive and active at that time.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, this was around Maxwell Street, wasn't it? Is that the main place?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, no. Maxwell Street was a Sunday morning showcase. The majority of the blues artists did not perform on Maxwell Street. Maxwell Street was historically where some of the first migrants from the South where they had a showcase, including Muddy Waters, Little Walter, and Robert Nighthawk, a lot of the guys. And Maxwell Street was the open flea market, also known as Jewtown because Jewish merchants owned the surrounding shops. And then there was the flea market, you know, where you could, they say you could find anything on Maxwell Street. And then, I don't know how it was initiated, but, you know, the guy, different groups of musicians would set up on the street. They'd run an extension cord through somebody's window and they'd perform on the street for tips. And it was still around when I was here. I did go to Maxwell Street Sadly, not as much as I could have and should have, but I did go there quite a few times back when I was in college.

SPEAKER_01:

What got you started playing the harmonica?

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, just fate, destiny. I walked into a five and dime store and saw one, and a little voice told me I could play it, and I bought it and put it in my mouth, and I was immediately playing folk tunes and Christmas carols. Do you know what sort of age you were then? Oh, I was probably about, oh, maybe nine or ten, somewhere around there. And so

SPEAKER_01:

you hadn't particularly heard any harmonica music before you bought it, or did you? No, I had not. Right, so you literally just picked it up and fancied playing it. Yeah. Yeah. Did you buy harmonica in L.A. or in Chicago?

SPEAKER_02:

No, that was in L.A., that's... I didn't come back to Chicago until I was 17.

SPEAKER_01:

So when you did start playing harmonic, did you start listening to harmonic music then or did that come a few years later?

SPEAKER_02:

No, that didn't come until I got back to Chicago. I wasn't aware of any harmonic music per se, other than if I'd hear maybe a little pop riff on a pop song or rock song or something. But no, I didn't. I was... This was just something to entertain myself and in turn entertain my friends and family. I'd always keep it. When that one would wear out, I'd go back and buy another one.

SPEAKER_01:

Do you know what type of harmonica that was?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, it was called a Valencia harmonica. It was a double reed, folk style. It was curved. I even made it a point fairly recently to... to verify that. So I looked it up on the internet and there it was. So what we would

SPEAKER_01:

call a tremolo harmonica?

SPEAKER_02:

Yes.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay, so yeah, a real folky harmonica. Interesting. So did you carry on playing that until the age of 17? I kept playing it. And do you know when you first bought your first diatonic harmonica?

SPEAKER_02:

I was probably about 18. You know, at that time, in addition to All the blues that was surrounding, I mean, that was inundating Chicago. You know, on college campus, you know, there's always would-be musicians. So, you know, you'd run into different guys on campus. And I can't remember how or who turned me on to the Marine Band. I don't really remember that. But it

SPEAKER_01:

wasn't

SPEAKER_02:

long.

SPEAKER_01:

So it was a marine band you got once you got your first diatonic. It was probably a marine band. Yeah. And so you really started picking up on the blue stuff when you went to college. Yes. And I understand you've got a degree in political science.

SPEAKER_02:

That's

SPEAKER_01:

right. And you were thinking about becoming a lawyer at one point.

SPEAKER_02:

That was an option. I don't know how serious... I mean, by all accounts, I would have been a... successful one but you know when you're young you go to college and you know I pretty much it was pretty much understood that I would you know there was no question three generations of my family attended University of Illinois including my grandfather and who was a chemist and so here I was at University of Illinois but I didn't really know what I what I wanted to do. I thought, maybe I want to be a lawyer. So they said, okay, well, major in political science. I said, okay.

SPEAKER_01:

And I understand you represented the USA in Turkey's parlance as well.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah. That was a wonderful tour, six-week tour, which my band took part in. And we also had special guests with us. We had fantastic veteran blues singer Zora Young from Chicago and also Cedric Burnside.

SPEAKER_01:

So you got the Turkish politicians to play harmonica here in their

SPEAKER_02:

parliament. Yeah. Matter of fact, I think the clip is available on YouTube.

SPEAKER_01:

I'll try and post it on the podcast.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah. We have the leader, two leaders of the opposition parties. The Liberal Party representative was a very renowned Turkish folk singer. And we had an impromptu jam session with the members of parliament. And she joined in. And we were just kind of jamming some blues. And she joined in singing in Turkish.

SPEAKER_00:

I'm having a time with you I'm having a time with you

SPEAKER_02:

We just gave a few of them harmonicas, and she played a little harmonica. It was great. You've got to see it. It's really cool. Next one. Cedric Burnside's playing guitar. I'm playing Harb Zor Young's singing, and it was really cool.

SPEAKER_01:

Awesome, yeah. Talking about your music career, you played with Carrie Bell, and then you went on to replace him in the Willie Dixon All-Star Band.

SPEAKER_02:

I did. Although, Carrie Bell, I have on a cassette tape It was kind of weird because, yeah, I was replacing Cary Bell. And Willie Dixon knew that he was going to leave. And he actually, I got to accompany the band while they were on tour, while Cary was still playing. So I was kind of like an apprentice harmonica player for the Willie Dixon Chicago All-Stars, yeah. My first band, and right prior to that, was with a boogie-woogie piano player. from Memphis by the name of Jimmy Walker. He gave me my first real break to be in a regular, to be in a band on a regular basis. And we started out as the Jimmy Walker Trio with just guitar, harp, and piano. My buddy Pete Crawford on guitar. And then eventually we added bass and drums. But he was really, I remember him fondly, and I really miss him. miss him because he was a great guy. I always credit him with giving me my first break, so to speak.

SPEAKER_01:

And what sort of age were you when you joined Willie Dixon's family?

SPEAKER_02:

That was just a few years after that. Right after that, we had formed the Sons of Blues because we went to a historic... We performed a historic concert at the Berlin Jazz Festival in 1977. That was then. So that was myself, Freddie Dixon... Lurie Bell and Garland Whiteside. So everyone in that rhythm section was a son of a famous blues musician except for myself. But Willie Dixon was with us as the emcee and the patriarchal figure. And that concert, there's two documentaries on YouTube. One's an extension of the other. That's also on YouTube too. One's called Willie Dixon and the New Blues Generation, and the other one is I Am the Blues.

SPEAKER_01:

Roy, I'll post links to those as well. I'm sure I'll find

SPEAKER_02:

those. Yeah, they're really, really interesting because Jim and Amy O'Neill, the publishers of Living Blues, they were commissioned by George Brunt, who was the producer of the Berlin Jazz Festival, to assemble a group of At that time, youngsters, we were the answer to the question, are there any young black people playing blues? So they assembled five of us comprised in three rhythm sections. The Sons of Blues was born as a result of that.

SPEAKER_01:

So then that stage in the 1970s, there was less interest in the young black guys in blues then?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, there was so much less interest. There weren't a lot of us, but this kind of highlighted the fact that there were a handful and that we were all pretty skilled at what we were at our craft.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, you were in good company there, as you say, the sons of famous musicians and then Willie Dixon himself. Right. We're talking about some of the awards you've won. I understand you've received three Grammy nominations. Were they for your albums?

SPEAKER_02:

Right. They were the first one right after that concert. Matter of fact, shortly thereafter, we recorded for Alligator, Living Chicago Blues, Volume 3.¶¶ I think we received that in 79, 78, 79. And then one was for Superharps with myself, Charlie Musselwhite, James Cotton, Sugar Ray Norcia.

SPEAKER_01:

I have the album Superharps. I listened to that a lot when I was younger. Yeah, I remember it well.

SPEAKER_02:

Mean little momma, slow your rolling down. And the other one is for Chicago Blues Living History with myself, John Primer, Billy Boy Arnold, Carlos Johnson, Lurie Bell.

SPEAKER_01:

So did you go to the Grammy ceremony when you were nominated for those?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I went twice. And the last time for the Chicago Blues Living History, we actually expected to win. And because it was a very well... produced a record complete with great liner note booklet and photography. And the musicianship was top notch. And we were there. And this was actually produced by Larry Scholar, who lives in Nice, France, but he's American. And Larry had the support of the French government in Aulnay-sur-Bois. And they... The mayor from that town and various dignitaries were there at the Grammys, and we're all there, and Lurie Bell's there, and John Primer, and we're all just sitting, and, you know, we almost, I said, maybe I should have written an acceptance speech, and Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis, you know, producers of the time and Prince, they were the presenters, and when they read the... And the winner is... Now, the Blues, of course, is not televised, but they have a ceremony for the so-called lesser commercial categories, which I think is a travesty, but that's another interview. But you see your name flash up on the big screen, and the winner is Ramblin' Jack Elliott. And we're like,

SPEAKER_00:

whoo!

SPEAKER_02:

And I never heard of him, but apparently he's a veteran folk singer, songwriter, guitarist, and apparently was a mentor to Bob Dylan. And so we kind of connected the dots and said, oh.

SPEAKER_01:

You were also on the Grammy Board of Governors as well for the blues category.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. Well, I was, yes. I started the first blues committee as a governor.

SPEAKER_01:

And you won a couple of WC Handy Awards as well?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I got three of those. They were Handys, now they're BMAs. One for Harper Tech. One for Chicago Blues, A Living History. That might have been Volume 2. And one for... Oh, me and Kenny Neal. Double Take, best acoustic album. And then a couple of BMAs for my work with Blues in Schools, Keeping the Blues Alive Awards.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I was going to ask you about the Blues in Schools.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, you know, I did a... Blues in Schools performance in Jersey at Giles' old school.

SPEAKER_01:

I didn't play at his school. I knew that you'd played in Jersey recently.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, we played at his school. It was surreal. We felt like we were in a Harry Potter movie. It looked just like it. I mean, it was the old decor and the architecture. It was really surreal.

SPEAKER_01:

And did the students like the concert?

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, they loved it. I had them singing Stormy Monday at the top of their lungs and standing up and raising their hands and screaming, Lord have mercy.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, let's hope you've got a new jowl coming through then from Jersey as a result of that. Yeah,

SPEAKER_02:

yeah, yeah, possibly.

SPEAKER_01:

Great that you're keeping the blues alive. And clearly with your... Your band name is Sons of the Blues, so you've clearly got this strong feeling about keeping the blues going and the history and the legacy of blues music.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, the reason was because every member, except for myself, was the son of a famous blues musician. But consistent with that theme, we certainly were actively pursuing the goal in addition to Our careers, but kind of spreading the word, so to speak. We did something kind of unique, Neil, here in Chicago, in that as a younger band, we ended up playing in neighborhood black-owned taverns, which normally their clientele would not be so blues-oriented. The blues, contrary to probably a lot of people's beliefs, is not... really popular in black communities. Don't get me wrong, you have a lot of black people that still like the blues, but in terms of attendance in the clubs, like Buddy Guys and the clubs on the north side, the audiences are primarily non-African American. And when we put our band together in the late 70s, We would play in clubs that, I'll give you an example. Some of these clubs were, the clientele was middle class and upper middle class black people, sometimes celebrities and politicians and locals, Chicago. And then they weren't all like that, but they were neighborhood bars that people normally who came in there would not have gone out of their way to go hear a blues concert. So we, in effect, baptized our own people because we were playing at such a high level that they couldn't deny us. There's a stigma attached to the blues within the African-American community. And part of it has to do with remembering the South and hard times. These are things that some people would rather forget. And there's always been the debate about is the blues low down, whereas jazz is classy. You know, there's always that kind of a debate as well. So in essence, we reintroduced our culture to the people who were the inheritors of that culture, who had basically had shunned it or turned their back on it. I'll give you an example. One club we went in. We went in, we did our regular show, and then the people turned their noses up. This is a black club. They turned and they looked at us like we stole something. But within one month, we'd walk in and they'd say, are you all going to play the blues tonight? Because they couldn't deny. And the blues is like that. Because it's, you know, I've said many times that it's the... most universal of all musics because it speaks directly to the human condition it's everyone has the blues from time to time you can't say i got the hip-hop i got the jazz i got the you know i got the whatever but everyone gets the blues so therefore on some level everybody can relate to it

SPEAKER_01:

yeah definitely certainly for myself when i was younger blues was a You know, very important to me. It's the music I love. And I started playing the harmonica, yeah. So certainly for me, I grew up in northern England, you know, a long way from where the blues came from. Yeah. If we can move on to talk about some of your albums now. You mentioned, I think, the Chicago's Young Blues Generation. That's the first album you wrote in 1982.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, that was out in 82. Yeah, that was in conjunction with the American Folk Music Tour. for Horst Lippmann and Raoul. You know, they were the first entrepreneurs to start bringing blues to Europe on a regular basis. Going back with Muddy and Willie Dixon and Sonny Boy and Little Walls, so many of them that they brought over. And so we did that, yeah, for that organization.

SPEAKER_01:

You mentioned the album Heart Attack. Yeah, so Heart Attack was the first time I heard you. And yeah, the great album. And again, when I was growing up and playing the harmonica, that was a... an album I played along my harmonica to a lot. Obviously, you had yourself on there and Carrie Bell and James Cotton Jr. Well, so how did that album come about?

SPEAKER_02:

That was on Alligator Records and Bruce Eagle Hour, the owner and producer, he came up with the idea. And prior to that, he had done similar formats with guitars, you know, the guitar showdown and he had Texas guitar showdown, you know, where he had like four different guitar players, you know. And he envisioned that same concept, but using harp players. And he had assembled, now he's related to me this story several times, and he had already assembled Kerry Bell, who I knew, spent a lot of time with, of course. Well, I spent a lot of time with all of them, actually. Junior Wells, and James Cotton. And these, along with Big Walter Horton, these were my principal influences. These are the guys that I would hang out with at the clubs. Get my ass kicked, get blown off the stage by each and every one of them numerous times over the years. Yeah,

SPEAKER_01:

you talked about that on the album, didn't you? You say that you used to cut my head regularly and all these things. Yeah,

SPEAKER_02:

yeah, yeah. A new kid on the block. Yeah, all of that is true. Every verse... Every verse in that song is accurate. So he assembled the three of them, and he asked them, he said, we need a fourth harmonica player. And so he asked them, and they all unanimously said, get Billy. That was a great honor for me, and it was a lot of fun. I remember when I cut New Kid on the Block, Junior Wells, right after we did it, he said, don't F with it. I said, what? Leave it alone. In other words... I think we did that on one take, and that was it. It's

SPEAKER_01:

a great, great song. Yeah, I know it well.

SPEAKER_02:

Thanks.

SPEAKER_01:

Playing on that one, you're playing with James Cotton, and you have that kind of blow-off on the end of the song. And James Cotton plays this really laid-back sort of riff, which is beautiful, against your kind of attacking sort of style of harmonica. It's a really nice combination.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, thanks, man. I miss those guys, those cats. I learned so much from those guys.

SPEAKER_01:

So lucky, like you say, you were hanging out with those guys and learning directly from those guys. I think a lot of harmonica players give their right arm for that. Any particular advice to give you? Well,

SPEAKER_02:

yeah, it wasn't like they would welcome you with open arms because at that time there were so many really skilled Chicago musicians In the clubs, you know, it was always loose. You know, people... And it still is. We still have that kind of family thing. Like, for example, if I walk in, just say Little Ed's playing or Ronnie Baker Brooks or something. I walk in, the first thing they're going to say, hey, man, we're in the key of A. Get your D harp. You know, I mean, we've always... Chicago has always had that kind of welcome vibe when it comes to us sharing the stage. We've always done that. I've seen it from the beginning when I first entered the scene. It kind of disturbs me when I've traveled different places and I see these guys. They're so stringent. They're so almost as if you're insulting them. You say, well, hey, I've got an instrument and they're so stringent. I don't know what the word is, mercenary about it, the territorial, because that's not the way that I learned, and that's not the way we do here in Chicago. It's very, very gracious. It's not uncommon. Just say, if you say, hey, man, I'm from England, and I know Billy Branch, and I play harp, chances are they say, well, you got your harp? Come on up here. So there was a competition level. So, in other words, by now I've, you know, gotten a little notoriety. If I'm in the house and James Cotton's in the house or Junior Will and I'm going to, if they know I might play, they're going to try their best to cut my hair. You see what I'm saying? So, it was, but it was, you know, it wasn't, it was never house style, but it was just, It was healthy competition.

SPEAKER_01:

I'm sure that helped draw the best out of you and push your playing on to the heights that you've reached. Oh, it

SPEAKER_02:

did. I was like the little kid that kept going to the playground and getting knocked down by the bully. I just kept coming back for more until... So when the bully hit me, I didn't fall down anymore,

SPEAKER_01:

you know. That is obviously a Little Walter tribute album. What made you want to do a Little Walter tribute album? Well,

SPEAKER_02:

actually, in the beginning, I didn't want to do it. I had to be convinced by my wife and Little Walter's daughter, Marion Diaz, who appears on the album.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, that's a nice touch.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. You know, we're part of the Little Walter Foundation, my wife and I. My wife is currently the director, and... We developed a close relationship with Mary and Little Walter's daughter. The 50th anniversary of his passing was coming up, and we did the tribute to Little Walter at the Mainstage Chicago Blues Festival in 2018, 50th anniversary. So it made sense to do something to commemorate that. But initially I pushed back because I was like, you know, there's been so many tribute to little waltz records. Do we need another one? And my wife said, well, you know, it'd be important that you do this, especially with Marion being on it, you know, his daughter. And I said, okay. And after we got engaged in the process, it started, you know, this song started morphing and taking on a life of their own and we ended up with what I consider a very good recording because my band really rose to the occasion.

SPEAKER_01:

It's an excellent recording. I think you add, like you say, there's been a lot of Little Walter tribute albums, but you definitely add your own flavor to it and some great playing on there. You know, some of the songs you've taken quite a long way away from the Little Walter version, such as Mellow Down Easy, which is probably my all-time favorite Little Walter song. You know, you do that very differently. First of all, it's in a different key. It's in E and not in A. Yeah. It's got a completely different vibe about it, doesn't it?

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

than juke yeah is quite similar but again a number is different enough that you know it kind of is juke isn't it but you've added your own flavor on top of it again

SPEAKER_02:

yeah with juke i'm i'm playing almost note for note with little walter played but we put a completely different rhythm to it so you know and and it came out to be refreshing because i've never uh been one to just want to recreate what other people have done, you know, just copy, copy, you know. I mean, what's the point? It became a creative effort, and the band was as much a part of it as I was. They came up with a lot of ideas. So I'm really pleased with what came out.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it's really great. I enjoyed it. So before then, I think you'd released 2014's Blue Shock, so that was five years before. And then before

SPEAKER_00:

that,

SPEAKER_01:

there'd been quite a gap of, I think, a 10-year gap between a studio

SPEAKER_02:

album. Yeah, more than that, closer to 15, that we did something that, I mean, I continue to record as a session man, and I may have done some compilation stuff, but in terms of on my own group, yeah, it'd been a good while. I mean, it was time. It was already five years since Blue Shock. And I'm trying to make it not another five years before the next one. I'm writing some things and trying to get material for the next release.

SPEAKER_01:

What's your favorite song on the album? That's funny. I

SPEAKER_02:

was kind of thinking about that. One of my favorites is Blue and Lonesome.

SPEAKER_01:

You start playing chromatic and then you switch to diatonic. Is that that one?

SPEAKER_02:

Yes. That's another example of how we modified and added our own touch to that. Because, you know, traditionally it's... Lil' Walter plays chromatic throughout and then we took it into a different mode, you know. I hate to see you go and mellow down easy. Oh, we have a video on mellow down easy.

SPEAKER_01:

Move on now to... talking about some of the harmonic influences on you. Is there any particular albums that you listen to, any particular songs that influence you? Well,

SPEAKER_02:

I listen to Lalo, Walter, Lalo, Sonny Boy, and then I would go to hear Junior and Cotton and Carrie Bell. and Big Walter here. They're alive, you know, a lot.

SPEAKER_01:

The first two people most everyone says is Little Walter and Sonny Boy Williams.

SPEAKER_02:

What is it you think

SPEAKER_01:

about those guys, you know, won people over to their music?

SPEAKER_02:

Even though they were both from the South, they had a commercial appeal, almost like, you know, almost like a pop kind of appeal because the recordings were produced on such a high level. And you take a song like Help Me, which is about as simple as you can get. But the way that Sonny Boy delivers this is just so geniusly constructed. And it's so catchy. And it's not a lot of instrumentation. It's not a lot of flashy harmonica playing, but it's so soulful. And his voice and his vibrato in his voice and the vibrato in his harp playing, it just reaches out to you, you know. And little Walter, you know, again with his... Virtuosity and the arrangements and the rhythm section, just well-oiled machine. It's like all the notes just fit where they were supposed to be, almost like our favorite pop songs were. For blues, you don't necessarily make that kind of association. Did you see those guys play

SPEAKER_01:

yourself?

SPEAKER_02:

No, I came too late. I didn't come to Chicago until 69. Walter died in 68. Sonny Boy a few years before that. You did sit in with Muddy Waters at one point, didn't

SPEAKER_00:

you? Yeah,

SPEAKER_02:

I got a couple of times to sit in with Muddy. I got to see him several times, not as much as I would have liked to. Was that when he was

SPEAKER_01:

playing in Chicago and you were sitting with him?

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

He never asked you to become one of his harmonica players of choice?

SPEAKER_02:

No. I know at one point there was talk about me possibly playing with Coco Taylor, which I recorded on three or maybe four Coco Taylor's albums, but not with Muddy during the time it might have been possible. Of course, I was with Dixon, and those were... If you were a sideman as a harp player, those were the two golden gigs to get. He only had those two, either Muddy Waters or Willie Dichter. Fortunately, at least, I could play with Willie for about six years.

SPEAKER_01:

We touched on earlier on that clearly you know Giles Robson, who I did the last podcast with. So Giles has brought you over to the UK a few times, and Europe, so you've toured in Europe and the UK, playing with Giles' band.

SPEAKER_02:

So

SPEAKER_01:

how did

SPEAKER_02:

that come about? Giles initiated that. You know, I had played in the UK, but never in the London area, and Like the Great Rhythm and Blues Festival, I'd done that a couple of times. I even did a blues in schools for a week in the UK in conjunction with that festival for a week and went to five schools during that week.

SPEAKER_01:

Is that the one in Burnley in Lancashire? Yes. So my hometown is about 10 miles from there, so I used to go to that festival when I was young. It was kind of one of my big blues influences. We had that festival, and then there was another one in Colne also in Lancashire.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, in Colne, I did that one too.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, so you came over and you played with Giles. I know, as you say, you came over to Jersey and I saw you play at Burnley when Sugar Blue came over as well, just a few years ago now.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah. Who was it? It was me, Sugar Blue, Charlie Musselwhite. You

SPEAKER_01:

talked about

SPEAKER_02:

your band

SPEAKER_01:

and would you have any advice for up-and-coming blues bands?

SPEAKER_02:

You know, the main thing, do your homework and practice. Practice, practice, practice, of course. But do your homework because Giles, he keeps some quality musicians. to his credit. And so when he said, you know, it's really challenging when you're playing with a pickup band. You know, you can never really do, as a band leader, you can never really do what you can do with your own band. But at least if you've got good musicians, you can come pretty damn close. And to Giles' credit, he's, you know, he's like the Cinelli brothers. Those guys are great. He's always kept top-notch musicians in the UK. So, It makes it a lot easier. But these guys, they've done their homework, and they know the idiom, even when I did with Lewis Fielding, which we just did as a duo. Lewis was an excellent accompanist. And then you've got to respect the music, and you've got to respect where it comes from, and understand that this is a legacy. Of course, now it's an important aspect of world culture, but it's an important cornerstone of African-American culture as well. I think the respect and the reverence is also important.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, and

SPEAKER_02:

the

SPEAKER_01:

foundation for rock and roll.

SPEAKER_02:

Right. It basically spawned the British blues invasion. I mean, the British rock invasion.

SPEAKER_01:

That's right. When the Beatles came over to America, I believe one of the first things they said was, they mentioned Woody Walters, and the journalists in America didn't know who Woody Walters was.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah,

SPEAKER_01:

yeah, yeah. It's a place, apparently. They didn't know who he was. Talking about your playing style now, particularly when I first heard you on Harp Attack, you did bring quite a modern sound to that, you know, with the other guys playing on the album, James Cotton and Junior Osnock. Kerry Bell. Yeah. You know, you, you quite a strong attack on the sound, you know, quite aggressive sound. And then you would have a kind of night playing some nice top end stuff coming down. How would you say you develop your style?

SPEAKER_02:

I think my style, which is when I, when I related to you about how we appeal to, uh, the people that didn't necessarily, uh, black, uh, African American audiences that were not necessarily blues fans, because, uh, My style is a... You know, I'm a product of my musical development as a youngster, you know, and I can't... Okay, so I didn't come up listening to blues, what I listen to. I listen to everything on the radio, you know, Motown, pop, rock. So I'm listening to Stevie Wonder and Jimi Hendrix. I'm listening to The Doors, The Beatles, The Stones. You know, I'm listening to all of this stuff, like all of this music. And so... Somewhere in the back of your mind, those influences are there. You know, we do some things that are slightly jazzy. We can play some light jazz. But for me, I think it's just about the groove and it's about the feeling. You know, when I perform, sometimes I do these long, fast flourishes, but the blues is not just about that. And I feel that sometimes people... can overdo that to the extent that it no longer becomes blues. It's unrecognizable. I mean, yeah, it's great that you're accomplished and you can do these fantastic note runs, but are you playing the blues? It becomes questionable because the blues is about the soul, the feeling. It's about telling the story, you know? I'll refer you to another song on YouTube you may not have heard. And I turned Giles on to this some years ago. He loves this song. It's called Roaches. It's real funky. It's not really a blues, but to me, in the big picture, it's all the blues because it's all about the soul. Even your top jazz musicians in interviews, most of them would say, from Count Basie to Miles Davis, they all say, if you can't play jazz, if you don't know the blues, because it all comes from the blues, you know.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, absolutely. I love jazz music too. A lot of it's based on the blues. Yeah. A lot of Charlie Parker songs are basically blues songs with jazz chord changes. You're the front man for the band. Well,

SPEAKER_02:

you know, it's on you. It's up to you whether you have a good show, a mediocre show, or it's all on you. It's... It all falls on your head. It doesn't matter if the bass player is messing up or the drummer is messing up or the piano player. Ultimately, at the end of it, you get that last note, they're going to say, oh, man, that was terrible. Billy Branch did a terrible show. So you've got that pressure, and it compels you to, to rise to the occasion, to be able to give a quality performance every time you hit that stage.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, but you prefer that, being the frontman, do you, rather than being a sideman? You like the pressure, the attitude, how do you think you rise to that?

SPEAKER_02:

You know, I've enjoyed both. You know, sometimes it's a relief sometimes when I'm doing a guest spot because you don't have all of that pressure. But, you know, I've done this so long, and I've certainly paid enough dues to assume that stature, I guess. And I've had enough experience. Plus, you make more money as the band leader, you know. So that's the bottom line, you know. I've been blessed to have always, in all the various incarnations, the Sons of Blues, we've always kept a good band, good, solid-type band.

SPEAKER_01:

You mentioned Blues Chromatic. Yeah, how do you think you're playing the Chromatic versus the Diatonic? Any tips for people who might want to pick up the Chromatic?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, you know, Blues style, we're basically playing it in the key of D. You know, one of my long-term dreams is to play it chromatically like it was made to do. But just, again, just listen to the greats, you know. Yeah. Little Walter did some amazing things with chromatic.

SPEAKER_00:

I am ready for you. I hope you're ready for me.

SPEAKER_02:

George Smith. I'm Monica George Smith. I've got a few gems in there. You listen to the guys that appeal to you, you know, and then you can start by copying them and emulating them, and then ultimately, if you can persist, you will hopefully develop your own style. But there's nothing wrong with copying, especially when you're first learning, you know.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I always try and encourage people to pick up some chromatic. I play quite a lot of chromatic myself, so third position is not really too different than playing the diatonic in third position. Yeah. A question I ask each time on the podcast is if you had 10 minutes yourself to pick the harmonica up, maybe now or maybe when you were younger starting out, if you only had 10 minutes to play, what would you play in that 10 minutes?

SPEAKER_02:

That's an interesting question. It might take me 10 minutes to think about it. If I only had 10 minutes to play, I would improvise something for 10 minutes.

SPEAKER_01:

How would you approach the improvisation? By playing something in second position or by the blues

SPEAKER_02:

scale? It would completely depend on how I felt at that moment, which is the way most of my recordings have been and a lot of my performances. When I take a solo... There's certain songs that I will play practically the same solo each time, but there's a lot of cases in which I'm learning as I'm going along on any given night. This is one reason I'm a person that doesn't mind sitting in because when I'm in different musical settings, I can explore different, experiment on different things. So if I have 10 minutes, It would depend on how I felt. I'd make up something.

SPEAKER_01:

Do you teach the harmonica?

SPEAKER_02:

Sure. Online? Not on a regular basis. From time to time, people will ask me, and they'll come to my home. And I have done lessons over Skype. I haven't done it on a regular basis. But from time to time, I do. And of course, I've taught... hundreds of thousands of children over the years. I started doing blues in schools in 1978, and I still do it periodically. I've got the kids from my 1978 classes who still come to my shows over 40 years later. So how do you try and get the kids to play? Well, it's not hard. You know, they got harmonicas and they make noise. You know, kids love to make noise. It's not hard at all.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay, and we can move on now to the last section mainly. Thanks very much for your time. Man, you're doing

SPEAKER_02:

a thorough interview. Are you sure you're not writing my biography?

SPEAKER_01:

Maybe I'll come to that. If we can talk a bit about gear now. So what is your harmonica of choice now? Are you still playing the marine bands?

SPEAKER_02:

No, I play Suzuki Manjis.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay.

SPEAKER_02:

And I've been playing them for the last, oh, what is it, about eight years now or seven, eight years. And I'm an endorsee. And I like them. They work really well for me.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, there are definitely good quality harmonicas. I have a few.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And do you have a favorite key of diatonic harmonica?

SPEAKER_02:

If I was to say, I'd probably say an A harp to play in the key of E.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Yeah, the popular choice so far has been the A and B flat. They seem to be the ones that people have talked to so far. They're the ones leading the way in this question. Yeah. Yeah, that range is... Someone made an interesting point that it's like having, it's like a tenor saxophone range, whereas, you know, higher up you get into an alto saxophone range. Yeah. It's quite an interesting way to think of it, yeah. And do you play any different tunings?

SPEAKER_02:

I don't. No, I don't. No, I don't. I know there's a lot of players that are doing that these days, and I know the overblow technique has really gained a lot of steam over the last couple of decades. In that regard, I guess I'm somewhat of a traditionalist. I basically play the first, second, and third positions, the standard blues. Every once in a while, I might stumble into fourth.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I think that's what works on the diatonic, isn't it? I do play mainly just one other tuning, which is the Paddy Ricks, where you just retune the three blow-up a whole tone, so you've got that extra missing note there. Oh, okay. And that's used for playing melody, you know, being able to play melody. Yeah. Cool. And what about amplifiers? What amplifier do you use mainly?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, I've been using a PB Special amp. 130 for decades. That's for the clubs. But I have different amps I use in the studio sometimes. I got a Mesa Boogie Mark IV. And I recorded Roots and Branches with a rig similar to what Little Walter may have used. It's a throwback probably from the 40s or 50s, you know, with the two speakers that open up like a suitcase. And it's made by night, but I only use that for that session so far.

SPEAKER_01:

And the PB one, is that your main amp? That's a tube amplifier?

SPEAKER_02:

That's a

SPEAKER_01:

solid

SPEAKER_02:

state.

SPEAKER_01:

That's a solid state, okay.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, but it's really powerful. And, you know, on live shows, I don't necessarily go for the heavy distortion. It's a cleaner sound, but I got, you know, I don't necessarily, because of the style we play, I don't necessarily need that much distortion when we're playing live. Yeah, you've got that

SPEAKER_01:

quiet, clean sound. Do you have any particular favorite small amp?

SPEAKER_02:

No.

UNKNOWN:

No.

SPEAKER_02:

I've run across various ones in the studio, but I'd be challenged to identify what they were.

SPEAKER_01:

You mainly play, when you play with your band, you're using the big amps most of the time anyway, are you? Yeah. And microphones, any particular favorite microphones?

SPEAKER_02:

I use Lecture Voice 630, 630A or 630, Lecture Voice 9.

SPEAKER_01:

Is that a dynamic microphone?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, it is.

SPEAKER_01:

So it's a clean-sounding dynamic microphone, yeah. Yeah, Giles has told me that. He said when you were in Jersey, there wasn't an amp or something, and that you went through that microphone straight into the PA, maybe with one pedal. Did you have a pedal with it?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, just a delay pedal.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, he said you got a really tremendous sound, and he was keen to... Yeah. He was really blown away that you got this great sound just from going straight for the PA, and he was saying he was trying to, you know, he was looking up doing the same, because obviously the ease of just being able to play through the PA and not have to carry an amp and everything. Yeah, yeah,

SPEAKER_02:

because we didn't have any amps. We didn't have an amp, so we tried that, and it really did sound good, you know. Yeah.

UNKNOWN:

It's...

SPEAKER_02:

It's kind of luck of the draw what might happen. But that mic really just broke up just enough to get a nice sound there coming through the PA.

SPEAKER_01:

So again, it's not quite a clean sound coming through the PA with a dynamic mic and a delay.

SPEAKER_02:

Interesting.

SPEAKER_01:

And do you use effects pedals?

SPEAKER_02:

The delay pedal. Delay and an octave. But I have the octave up there. If the band's playing really loud, it gives me a little boost. And plus, I use it on certain solos. You can hear that on several recordings. People tell me, I knew that was you because I heard that octave.

SPEAKER_01:

Any particular brand of octave pedal?

SPEAKER_02:

I'm using Boss delay and octave.

SPEAKER_01:

I think just to finish off then, if we obviously were in this COVID-19 pandemic at the moment, but... Beyond that, have you got any shows lined up later in the year? Are you hoping to get back out playing?

SPEAKER_02:

Well, you know, we were scheduled. We would have been in China right now. We would have been in Wuhan

SPEAKER_00:

right now.

SPEAKER_02:

We had a three-week tour with my band, which, of course, was canceled or postponed. And Chicago Blues Fest, we have come up. We had Bellinzona Festival, King Biscuit Festival. Helen Arkansas, and Lou Cern. So we're just waiting to see what's going to happen, you know. And then hopefully we can get something to come back to the UK. I'm very pleased with Giles as a means for me to have a presence in the UK. For years, I hadn't played that much in the UK. And so in the last, I guess, four years now, Giles, I've been there probably for... almost half a dozen times.

SPEAKER_01:

I've seen you play a few times here. Well, hopefully I'll get to meet you, Billy, at some point when you come up next across the UK or Europe. So, again, thanks very much for taking the time to talk to me. It's been a real pleasure.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, thank you, Neil.

SPEAKER_01:

That's it for today, folks. Final word from my sponsor, the Longwolf Blues Company, providing some great effects pedals and microphones, all purpose-built for the harmonica. Be sure to check out their website.

SPEAKER_02:

Thank you.