Happy Hour Harmonica Podcast

Fata Morgana interview

• Neil Warren • Season 1 • Episode 30

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Fata Morgana are a Dutch harmonica quartet, who first formed in 1980 after meeting at the Eindhoven Harmonica Club. Two of the original members survive from that time, with the current line-up existing since 2001.
The group have played at many festivals around the world, including in Asia where harmonica groups are still very popular. They have released six albums, with their latest one in 2017 including four guest harmonica players from across Europe.
They share how they put together their own arrangements, how they get their sound and what life is like on the road for a touring harmonica group. 

Select the Chapter Markers tab above to select different sections of the podcast (website version only).

Links:

Website:
http://fatamorganamusic.nl/?lang=en
History:
http://fatamorganamusic.nl/geschiedenis/?lang=en

Videos:

Website video page:
http://fatamorganamusic.nl/videos/?lang=en
Tom Jones medley at NHL Festival:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z3XMePuGhZ8
Happy birthday to Roger Trobridge:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zN103hCsKJo
Al Smith playing with Harmonica Express:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73m7H5UtzMY
My Little Angel with Matyas Pribojzski:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFwNkLaqyYI


Podcast website:
https://www.harmonicahappyhour.com

Donations:
If you want to make a voluntary donation to help support the running costs of the podcast then please use this link (or visit the podcast website link above):
https://paypal.me/harmonicahappyhour?locale.x=en_GB

Spotify Playlist:
Also check out the Spotify Playlist, which contains most of the songs discussed in the podcast:
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5QC6RF2VTfs4iPuasJBqwT?si=M-j3IkiISeefhR7ybm9qIQ

Podcast sponsors:
This podcast is sponsored by SEYDEL harmonicas - visit the oldest harmonica factory in the world at www.seydel1847.com  or on Facebook or Instagram at SEYDEL HARMONICAS
and Blows Me Away Productions: http://www.blowsmeaway.com/

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SPEAKER_01:

Fatima Garner, join me on episode 30 of the podcast. Fatima Garner are a Dutch harmonica quartet who first formed in 1980 after meeting at the Eindhoven Harmonica Club. Two of the original members survived from that time, with the current line-up existing since 2001. The group have played at many festivals around the world, including in Asia where harmonica groups are still very popular. They have released six albums with their latest one in 2017, including four guest harmonica players from across Europe. They share how they put together their own arrangements, how they get their sound and what life is like on the road for a touring harmonica group. A word to my sponsor again, thanks to the Lone Wolf Blues Company, makers of effects pedals, microphones and more designed for harmonica. Remember, when you want control over your tone, you want Lone Wolf. So hello Fatima Ghana and welcome to the podcast. Hello Neil. Let's start off with the name Fatima Ghana which I understand means mirage and is a sort of form of a mirage for sort of sailors seeing fairy castles over the sea and getting shipwrecked. Where did the name Fatima Ghana come from?

SPEAKER_04:

Well when we started Fatima Ghana in 1980 obviously we had a lot of references from the harmonica community worldwide with many players having names including harmonica or cromonica or something like that. something with cats. Since from the beginning, we thought that we should try to create our own identity. We wanted to be different from all the others, both in the music we played and in the name of the group as such. So we just did a brainstorm session. And Ronald's brother, who at the time was the second lead player, the second chromatic player, he just came up with Fato Mogana in the brainstorm session. And we didn't think much about, let's say, its meaning. We just considered it to be recognizable and different from all the others.

SPEAKER_01:

So how are you guys forming? You say you formed there in 1980. So I believe you all were members of the Eindhoven Harmonica Club and that's how you all met up initially.

SPEAKER_04:

Yes, true. And the Eindhoven Harmonica Club started at the end of 1969. Ronald and I were amongst the first members of the orchestra, both playing bass. So Ronald and I had been playing a number of years in different little groups and in the orchestra. And in 1980, we decided decided to play Ronald's brother and Ronald and myself as a trio and then another lady who was a chord player in the orchestra asked if she could join as well and that is where the quartet started and when we when we actually founded Fata Morgana.

SPEAKER_01:

Great yeah and so as you say that yourself and Ronald and we'll introduce all the members of the quartet shortly but you dealt with Ronald with founder members and you've had quite a few different members over the years but you two guys have been there since the beginning.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, true.

SPEAKER_01:

So what about maybe some of the people who've come and gone, you know, what happened with that? They just had life circumstances, which meant they had to leave the quartet and then you replaced them.

SPEAKER_04:

Well, I think what happened was that two years after Fata Morgana started, Ronald and I had to go for our military services. So during that time, we were, let's say, we had a pause of about a year and a half or so. And when we started, when we wanted to get together again and start up all the things, then our lady court player who had been married in the meantime, she said, well, I now concentrate on other things so please carry on without me so we had to go find another chord player and then another four years later Ronald's brother the second chromatic player got married with a lady who lived about let's say 150 miles away so he moved house and we had to find another second chromatic player which became Dirk then 1988 our second chord player well he quit because he was concentrating on other musical things he was a drummer as well so we had Lex as the third chord player Lex after six years well wanting to concentrate on his piano playing. And then we had to find the fourth chord player. And then we had 1995, and that is where Antal joined. So he's been around for all those years as well now. 2001, actually, we had some, let's say, difference of opinion about several things with our second chromatic player at the time. So that led to the situation where we separated. And then at the end of 2001, Paul joined the group. So we've been in the same group of people let's say since the end of 2001 now. So 19

SPEAKER_01:

years and the whole group's been going since 1980 so 40 years now your 40 year anniversary have you done anything particularly in this special year to celebrate that?

SPEAKER_04:

Actually we tried perhaps Anton you can say something about that. We had

SPEAKER_02:

an idea how can we celebrate our anniversary over the time we organized all kind of events ourselves in the past and that was also the first idea that came up to organize a concert or something in our own neighborhood. Yeah, that was a tremendous amount of work for us as a, yeah, it's not our professional life to make music and live from music and organize events. So it's all on the side as a hobby. So we thought about an alternative knowing that our anniversary date was in September and in September there's also a harmonica event happening in Switzerland. Also, Switzerland is one of the countries where we had most performances for, we were invited there for many times and we also went there on our own, you know, initiative to join events in Switzerland. So we thought maybe it's a good idea to combine this and to organize the evening before the event in Switzerland to organize a birthday party and invite some people from Switzerland and the surrounding areas to join us there. And then, of course, we know what happened and we had to postpone everything. So hopefully we can organize something next year.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, that'd be fantastic. Yeah. Let's get into just introducing all the guys now. So let's let everybody know who's who. So Rob, we've heard you talking at the beginning. So you're mainly the chromatic player and harmonetta player, is that right?

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, that's true. So I've been playing in various groups in the past and I do play, let's say, all chromatic harmonicas. So the lead chromatic, bass, chord and harmonetta. And in the group, my position is the chromatic player and harmonetta in those pieces where the arrangement has especially been written, including the harmonetta

SPEAKER_01:

piece. Could you just explain what harmonetta is to people?

SPEAKER_04:

Yes. Actually, the harmonetta is a harmonica, which from the top looks like a little bit of a typewriter or the button accordions that you see every now and then. So it gives you the, let's say the mouthpiece of the harmonetta is like any harmonica with a range of three octaves with blow and draw reeds being the same tone. And with the buttons that you push, you release the air to the applicable reed. So with the combination of buttons on top of the instrument, you can either play single notes or you can play multiple notes and form all sorts of chords manually so whereas the normal chord harmonica has fixed positions for the chords that are either on the instrument or not the harmonetta allows you to play any combination of tones forming any particular chord and then also because of the pitch that you have over the three octaves on the mouthpiece you can play those chords or any combination of tones that you play in any position as well.

SPEAKER_01:

Great. It is a reed instrument, just the same as a chromatic has the same reeds.

SPEAKER_04:

Yes, definitely. If you open it up, which I would not recommend because I did it once and it took me four hours to get it back together again, the part close to the mouthpiece looks like a normal harmonica with the reeds and the body and the reed plates and stuff.

SPEAKER_01:

Great, yeah, so thanks Rob. So we'll move on and speak to Ronald next. So Ronald, you're the bass player for the group.

UNKNOWN:

...

SPEAKER_03:

Yes, I'm the bass player and as Rob said in the beginning of this interview, Rob and I started at the Eindhoven Harmonica Club playing the bass. Well, since that time, I only play the bass. So I'm not very good at playing chromatic or chord. But on the other hand, I took a lot of lessons playing organ. So I make a lot of music in my spare time.

SPEAKER_01:

So you still play the organ now, do you?

SPEAKER_03:

Yes, I still play the organ, also in

SPEAKER_01:

the church. And so do you see the usefulness of playing the bass lines on the organ and the bass? harmonica, is that something you can transfer across the two instruments?

SPEAKER_03:

Yes. Well, I think every time that I listen to groups or music on the radio, I always listen to the bass lines. I'm not just listening to the melody line. So I really am a bass player.

SPEAKER_01:

It's interesting. We all gravitate towards our own instruments, don't we, when we're listening. So early on, you really found the bass, that's what attracted you and that's what you liked. Yes, really. So you don't play bass guitar though? No,

SPEAKER_03:

I don't. No.

SPEAKER_01:

And I understand that by profession, you're a lawyer. That's right. I'm a lawyer in the labor law. Great. I'm sure it could come in useful for the group one of these days. So thank you, Ronald. So we'll talk to Paul next, because we haven't heard from Paul yet. So hi, Paul. You're another of the chromatic players.

SPEAKER_03:

Yes, I'm the second lead player. I'm the youngest of the quartet. I was only seven years old when Fata Morgana was founded, so I was not in the picture yet. Quite funny, my physician, he advised me to play a wind in for my lungs because they weren't developed yet and I chose to play the harmonica so I got to play harmonica in the harmonica orchestra EMC in Eindhoven well I was a great fan of Vater Morgana and when at the end of 2001 Antal called me question if I wanted to join the quartet I was really really excited so I immediately said yes and since then I'm a proud member of this quartet

SPEAKER_01:

fantastic and I understand you were in a a duo called Duo Cadence, which won an award at the Estonia Festival.

SPEAKER_03:

Yes, that's right. That was quite an event. In 2001, I was there with my partner for the first time. It was the first festival at the Baltic Nordic Harmonica Festival at Pernun. And a year later, I was a member of Fata Morgana and I came back, but then with Fata Morgana and I took my partner Remco with me as a Duo Cadence and we won the Vati Award. Well, we were very proud of that, of course. The only disadvantage was that That award was so big.

SPEAKER_04:

It was a one meter high wooden sculpture that he had to take back on the plane.

SPEAKER_03:

Yes.

SPEAKER_01:

So that was a challenge. So do you play any of the other instruments, the orchestral harmonica instruments yourself, Paul?

SPEAKER_03:

No, I just play the harmonica. Sometimes I play the harmonica just to play some riddles. I play a second lead. And when Rob is playing the harmonetta, then I play the first lead.

UNKNOWN:

¦

SPEAKER_01:

And so to Anton next, who's the chord player for the group. Hi, Anton.

SPEAKER_02:

Hi.

SPEAKER_01:

So maybe you could explain to the uninitiated exactly what the chord harmonica is.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, it's exactly what it says. It's a harmonica in which you can play chords. So it's also developed that on the harmonica are all kinds of groups of eight tones, and together the eight tones form the shape of the chord. And you have 48 different chords on the harmonica, including all major, minor, seventh, and diminished and augmented chords. So basically, yeah, you can play a lot of chords on that. Technically, it's also possible to play more chords when you take half of one chord and a half of the chord next to it. But for us, it's key to keep the rhythm alive. And when you play those chords, it's more difficult to play them. And in combination with the rhythm, it's very complicated. Next to that, we also have a second lead in the group who can take over the notes that we are missing. So altogether, for us, it's It's more mandatory and key to focus on the continuation of the rhythm.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, absolutely. And listen to you guys, you know, yourself and Ronald are the rhythm section, the chord and bass, you know, the real driving force behind the group. Is that something you've really worked on a lot together to get that rhythm nice and solid? We're working on it

SPEAKER_02:

every week. It's always a challenge. We also see this year that when we don't practice enough or we don't have enough live shows that we are focusing on, then slowly it becomes more and more difficult to focus on that and it slips between the fingers so yeah we have to work hard on that to keep it in shape yeah and can be exact

SPEAKER_01:

And so do you guys still live around Eindhoven?

SPEAKER_02:

More or less. Paul and myself, we live in Eindhoven. So we live very close to each other. And Rob is living in the next city on the east side. And Ronald is living a bit more far away on the west side. But it's relatively close. So it's quite doable to be with us every week.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, so that's obviously critical that you actually live physically together. So in this world of, before the pandemic, of lots of online things you feel you still need to be able to meet in person to be able to successfully rehearse together yeah

SPEAKER_02:

yes yes and then still then it's and you don't have the challenge to to focus on some event and then that makes it still difficult to uh to rehearse on the same level and with the same focus that we did we used to do before

SPEAKER_01:

yeah great i do own a a chord and a bass harmonica myself and i've actually been in a a couple of ensembles so it's something I've dabbled in I've never really quite mastered it but I certainly own them and yeah I do appreciate playing them and the chord's great the bass is more challenging but I actually have Ronald I don't know if you've seen Brendan Powers going to develop to slide to the bass harmonica I actually got one of those and fitted it to my bass and it's very good because then you can use the slide so you don't have to switch between the two levels of the bass but whether it's quite as responsive as it is without it I'm not so sure but have you ever seen that Ronald?

SPEAKER_03:

Yes I saw him on Facebook and I wonder if that new type of bass with a slide works well or not. But you said that you have one. Why do you think that it's better than the normal bass?

SPEAKER_01:

Purely because not being a great bass harmonica player, just the ability to be able to not switch between the two levels is much simpler for the movement point of view. And it kind of works like a chromatic harmonica you're used to the slide. So it does work very well. My bass harmonica isn't in possibly a greater shape. So it's maybe not as responsive than probably your bass harmonica, which is a newer one. So it's kind of hard for me to judge exactly how responsive the bass is with this slide on because my bass harmonica wasn't brilliant in the first place but uh worth trying out but getting it fitted is a bit of a you know kind of ruins the uh i guess you could take it off again and put the old uh the old mouthpieces on

SPEAKER_04:

One of the things that you could try is Suzuki has actually recently developed a bass harmonica that looks like a normal chromatic.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

I haven't seen the instrument yet in real. Well, I'm quite anxious to see what it is and how it sounds, because it means that they had to do something with the reeds to actually achieve the low pitch in such a small housing.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I've seen it. It'd be very interesting to try it. The problem with the orchestral instruments, and again, for the people listening is... particularly the bass and the chord they're expensive yeah so it's not really something you would just buy to try would it you have to kind of be committed to sort of think yes I'm going to play one of these instruments unless you can pick one up second hand and in which case they're not always in the greatest condition being in a harmonica club like you guys were the Eindhoven harmonica club obviously that really helps with that and we've had clubs like that in the UK at times on and off and Jim Hughes used to run one I know you guys know him so yeah so yeah having a harmonica club was really useful and there's a group of you already that you're meeting up. So Rob, is it right that it wasn't your father who started that club, Peter Janssen, or is that just a shared surname?

SPEAKER_04:

It's true. Yeah. He was the one who, well, had, let's say, a harmonica history already playing in several trios. And after he got back from an international event in Switzerland in 1969, he decided to approach it more seriously and start teaching people. And the first two people that he taught playing the harmonica were my sister and me. My sister playing the chromatic and me playing the bass and my father playing the chords so we had a family trio which then when he came up with the idea to found the orchestra and start teaching all these children to play the harmonica our little family trio actually played our first performance at sort of a demonstration evening where people were invited by a newspaper article kids were invited to come up and see what it was like to play the harmonica so they could let's say, register for becoming a member of the newly founded Harmonica Orchestra. And at that first meeting, actually 40 children registered for playing in the orchestra.

SPEAKER_01:

Is the club still going?

SPEAKER_04:

Yes, but they have now, let's say the average age, I think it's above 80. Yeah. So they are not as dynamic as we used to be.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes. I mean, that is a challenge, isn't it? Well, across music in many ways, but maybe particularly the Harmonica and about attracting younger people. What about harmonica groups that inspired you? You know, you listen to them. I know that Hot Show was a European harmonica group, which is quite a tradition in Europe. And I think you're fans of Jerry Murad as well. You know, what sort of harmonica groups were you listening to? That's

SPEAKER_03:

right, Neil. Well, I think that the time then was much different from now. As now we have Facebook, Internet, YouTube. You can see all kinds of groups. But then that time you had records. And I know that When I was young, at our home, we listened to the Dutch Hot Shot Trio. At that time, I heard of Jerry Murad's group, of course. One of the groups that I liked very much was the Blitzer Harmonica Gang from Germany. That group came to one of the festivals of the orchestra and played there.

SPEAKER_01:

I liked that group very much. Was there any particular songs that inspired you from these groups?

SPEAKER_03:

Well, I think that Jerry Murad, of course, had many good songs. What I liked most was the album with the classical pieces. The fact is that with Fata Morgana, we now play one of those pieces, one of those classical pieces of Jerry Murad. Which song is that? Nutcracker Suite, Tchaikovsky.

UNKNOWN:

.

SPEAKER_03:

Of course, the Hot Shed Trio. I know that when I was young and I played in my family trio, we played simple songs from the Hot Shed Trio and we tried those songs to play. And later when Fata Modala started, we also tried to play and we played songs from the Hot Shed Trio.

SPEAKER_01:

Great, yeah, great. So a good tradition. I mean, looking at the appeal of a harmonica group today, I mean, you guys, again, you've lasted 40 years And so, you know, have you found that that appeal is still there? And seeing it's very interesting, it's very, you know, the harmonica fan, but for people who may be not harmonica players, the appeal of the harmonica group today for audiences?

SPEAKER_04:

Well, what you see is that the number of harmonica groups is coming down for a number of years already, as I think is the general number of harmonica players, but especially harmonica groups in our country. When we started, when Ronald and I started playing the harmonica, there were still many players around and there were still still many trios and groups and stuff. And when we were playing at a harmonica event in the Netherlands where they had a competition, then we even had the original bass player of the Hotcha Trio, Geert van Driesen, being one of the judges. So we got to know him as well. And then we had quite a big harmonica community and the interest of people for harmonica groups was, let's say, better than it was today. What we see happening is that Europe and the US, the numbers are coming down and only in Asia, the numbers are still going up and they are quite enthusiastic as far as harmonica players and also harmonica groups are concerned so we were quite amazed actually when we were invited to Taiwan the first time in 2014 by the serious harmonica ensemble from Taipei they told us that our experience after the concert that we were going to play would be quite extraordinary and we said well we come from the Netherlands we're quite straightforward people so we don't get excited that quickly but in the end we were because let's say they had a packed audience or let's say the hall was packed with about 700 people and they all stood in line for autographs and stuff like that and it took us I think almost two hours to satisfy all the people with CDs and pictures and autographs and everything else. That was a completely different experience where both young and old people showed a great interest in the harmonica in general and harmonica groups in particular.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah and there's a DVD available isn't there of that concert and there's some clips on your website but yeah like you say there's a big passion for it over there isn't there and there's a lot of harmonica bands over there now isn't there and it's proven very popular still

SPEAKER_04:

true

SPEAKER_01:

and have you been invited to go and play out in the east much more frequently since then

SPEAKER_04:

so far well the first time Taiwan then I think 2017 we were in Korea for the Korean festival 2019 we were in Taiwan for the second time

SPEAKER_01:

great yeah so it's a nice nice long trip out there and I mean as a concert I understand you guys have played over 400 concerts together not necessarily in the current lineup but yeah you've done over 400 concerts yet generally your concerts I think you try and make them about an hour long is that right so

SPEAKER_03:

well it depends we can play a maximum of one hour and a quarter and sometimes when it's really necessary we can make that longer to one hour and a half and it's just a question of talking a bit more on stage so we can fill up the one and a half hour. It depends on the question of the organizer. Mostly it's between 30 minutes and 45 minutes. And mostly it's also joint concert, accordion.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, well, you've got accordion orchestras or choirs or all sorts of music clubs that do concerts. And our participation of that, what we try to do is, you know, harmonica is something where you know that it's kind of a niche instrument. So one of the things that we prefer is leaving the stage when people are still excited. If you play too long, then perhaps they get bored and they don't want to come again.

SPEAKER_01:

With instrumental music, I think you're right in that you can maybe only listen to instrumental music for so long before you kind of need something else and maybe some vocals. So you don't have any vocals as part of your show at all, do you? No, no, no. And we shouldn't.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, there's one exception, Neil. On our last CD, we have a recording of a song with Matthias Prybojski. It's a blues player from Hungary and he also sings. My Little Angel is a song on our last CD where he also sings. That's the only vocal part of our music.

SPEAKER_01:

Because as you say, it's somewhat of a niche interest. But again, I think visually very interesting. I'm sure lots of people would be really wowed seeing a harmonica group and the different harmonica instruments. I know when I whip out my big chord harmonica here in the UK, it gets quite a reaction. People are amazed to see the instruments. Have you ever considered entering in some sort of a national television talent competition?

SPEAKER_04:

Well, actually, obviously, we talked about it and we were all very unanimous decision-wise not to take part in shows like that. I think we would rather put the harmonica, we would take it away from, let's say, the serious musical effort that we are considering when arranging and playing. And I think that the type of entertainment of those shows is quite different and it wouldn't fit us at all.

SPEAKER_01:

It's probably for younger people that sort of thing to enter too, isn't it, shall we say?

SPEAKER_04:

I would rather not connect it to age, but that's because I'm the second oldest in the group.

SPEAKER_02:

But the question is also what we want to achieve with that. Like I said before, it's pure a hobby, and we also, I think we all want to keep it like that. So when we would join such a competition, for most of the people, they want to make benefit from it. They want to do more shows. And for us, it's 10, 12 shows. the years a bit around the maximum that we are doing and we also want to keep it on that level

SPEAKER_01:

great okay so we'll move on now to talk a bit about your recordings and talk through your albums a little bit so you've got quite a varied repertoire in the songs that you've recorded you know you play sort of swing jazz you play pop blues classical music you've already touched on as well so what about the repertoire you choose

SPEAKER_03:

Well, in the past, when we started, we were still learning to play. It was really our challenge to become better and to participate in festivals and in competitions. And at that time, we choose mostly classical pieces because we thought that real classical pieces would do fine in those competitions. So for that purpose, we choose, for instance, the Brandenburg Concerto from Bach and we played that and later in another competition we chose the Moldau from Smetana but the Moldau from Smetana is a very long piece it lasts about 15 minutes so we made an arrangement of that piece that lasted 8 minutes but still I think that it was not very successful because 8 minutes for us is still very long Later on, when we recorded it on our album, we shortened it to almost four minutes. And I think that's great. So I think that in the past, we choose classical pieces. But well, maybe the festival in Jersey opened our eyes, the Jersey Festival in 1987, where we met many other groups. For instance, the group from Al Smith. Al Smith, he played pop songs. And we didn't know that it was possible to play that kind of rhythms. And after that, well, we also tried to broaden our repertoire to change other types of music.

UNKNOWN:

.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, and I think that works very well, particularly, again, for instrumental music. So if people recognize the song, you know, often these pop songs, and then people kind of sing along almost the words to themselves while you're playing it, don't they? So that really helps, I think, carry it as, you know, mainly pretty much, you know, pure instrumental music. Just talking through some of your albums, so through the 80s, I know you guys, but again, in the different incarnations of the group, you released a couple of cassette tapes. Yeah, so that became available in 2000, a sort of compilation of the 90s. 1980s material that you guys did when you were all quite young. You went to Jersey in 1987. So I had Jim Hughes on a few episodes ago and we talked about Jersey and of course he organized that. The best harmonica festival ever, I think it's quite fair to say.

SPEAKER_04:

We can definitely confirm that.

SPEAKER_01:

Was that kind of the big break for you guys to go there and take part in the competition? And you won the first place in the group competition, didn't you?

SPEAKER_04:

Yes, we did. If you talk about ideas from other players, just as Ronald said with the Harmonica Express with Al Smith on chords, Jersey was for a different reasons was a very great experience because we got to know all these and we got to hear and see all these wonderful players from around the world. And whereas up until then, we were really into the chromatic harmonica and group music. We saw a lot of blues players as well in Jersey, which really opened our eyes. Well, there's more than meets the eye and really look to all the things that are happening. Yeah, we got all sorts of ideas and we took the different kinds of modern music to that, including the pop songs where we had some ideas from L. Smith. And at one occasion, what we did was that we wrote an arrangement that started with a classical piece, which was the first piano concerto by Tchaikovsky. Then we had the idea from a piano player who started with this piano concerto, and then after that went through continuing on a boogie-woogie piece, which we then arranged for the harmonica group as well, which we used for for a later version of a harmonica, an international harmonica competition, where we tried to show that by playing a combination of classical and modern music, you could show that you were not, let's say, depending on one particular style

SPEAKER_01:

only. So great. And you also played at the opening ceremony in Jersey as well. So you met lots of players there, of course. And of course, Larry Adler was there. And I think Jerry Murad was there as well, was he, that year?

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. Well, the nice thing is, which was what Ronald was earlier in this conference, Ronald was referring to the album Harmonica Rhapsody of Jerry Murad's Harmonicats and actually that particular album which is an album with only arrangements of classical pieces all of those arrangements were written by Pete Peterson and the strange thing about this album is that although it has been played by Jerry Murad's Harmonicats which is a trio all those arrangements are actually quartet arrangements and that is one of the reasons that we picked one of those for our repertoire as well and what happened in Jersey was that the Harmonic Cats as a trio were joined with Pete Peterson as a second chromatic player, and they actually played as a quartet, which I think was a once-in-a-lifetime experience. They played several pieces of that

SPEAKER_01:

particular album live in Jersey. Roger Trowbridge, I've been talking to him about speaking to you guys, and he said there's a video of you guys playing in Jersey in 1987, which turned up in Japan in 2005. Have you got that video?

SPEAKER_04:

Well, we do have video recordings from Jersey and obviously we got them from Roger. So I think that those are the ones. I know that Brian Chaplin did a lot of recording in Jersey and those recordings have been gone for a couple of years and then they turned up again. I don't know about the Jersey video, but I do know that in the same year, Jim Hughes and Ivan Richards and Ronald and myself, we recorded a Christmas album in the UK and those recordings actually disappeared and were never released as far as we knew. And then in 2005 in Bristol Jim suddenly turned up and said hey a friend of mine got our Christmas recordings because they were released in Japan so that was another example of well where you get your surprises from somewhere else around the world

SPEAKER_01:

After the couple of albums you made through the 80s, you released Way To Your Heart in 1996, which contains a few more songs, Moonlight Serenade, and still got the blues, so sort of a bluesy number.

SPEAKER_04:

I think it was the last time that we did a recording was the cassette tape we did, the second cassette tape, which we did in 1989. So we had seven years without putting out a recording. And 1996 was just after the switch of chord player because Antal joined in 1995. Well, we had the combination at that time. Finally, we had the combination of spending time on doing the recordings. And at the same time, Antal was working on, well, let's say, getting his feet under the table. Yeah, we had a lot of preparation time for that album. So we could think about what pieces to go on there and do a proper representation of the broad style horizon that we were aiming at. So I think that, as you mentioned, we've still got the blues and Moonlight Serenade. Those were pieces that were adding something to the repertoire, whereas the Still Got the Blues was our own arrangement. And Moonlight Serenade, actually, as an exception, was an arrangement that was not written by Fata Magana themselves. We got it as a present from José Peralta, which is, let's say, a longtime harmonica friend from Portugal.

SPEAKER_01:

I think you've got a huge repertoire as well. I mean, again, pointing to your next album, For Once in My Life in the year 2000, you do bluesette on the song, very famous Tootsie Hillman song and the Sonata Medley. So... Do you know how many songs do you guys know? Probably between 70 and 80, I guess. Okay, great. And how many of those do you think you could still play?

SPEAKER_04:

Well, that won't go beyond 25, I guess.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, so you keep them short. So talking a little bit about the arrangements. So you guys do your own arrangements, don't you, of the pieces? And is it I believe it's Rob and Ronald who write mostly arrangements, is it?

SPEAKER_03:

Yes, that's right, Neil. Rob and I make the arrangements for the group. Well, every time that we think about a new song to play, then we look at our repertoire and we look at the types of music that we already play and discuss new songs. One of the latest songs that we are now practicing is a tango because we saw that that is a of music that we didn't have on our repertoire. One of the issues for us is if we want to choose a new song to arrange, we always want that every one of us, so all four, will like to play that song. And if one of us doesn't like to play that song, we won't play it. Sometimes that's a problem. Well, maybe Rob can tell you about one particular artist that I didn't like very much. much at that time. We really wanted to play that song from that artist. Brock, maybe you can explain better than I can.

SPEAKER_04:

As Ronald said, we always check that all four of us like to play the piece because well, as you know, playing the harmonica is a hobby. We all get a lot of joy out of that and that would be, let's say, less the case if we were playing music that we don't like. So we are always looking for the ones where all four of us get enthusiastic about it. There are some exceptions. Well, in those cases, one of the examples of a trade that we made was Ronald came up with a French waltz that I didn't particularly like, and then I came with a proposal for writing a medley of Tom Jones pieces, which Ronald didn't like. So we said, well, okay, let's not skip both ideas. If you come along with this one, go along with this one, I will go along with the other one. So in the end, we did both of them. And actually, both pieces have been quite successful in live performances ever since.

SPEAKER_01:

The Tom Jones one, which I think I heard you play

SPEAKER_04:

live. If you were in Bristol in 2005, we did that one. Yeah. Roger has a video recording of that as well, including my five-minute announcement.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I was. I remember that well, yes. Superb, yes. So when you're playing the arrangements, you write them out into scores, yes. I don't think you play reading from music, though, do you? Do you memorize the pieces to perform?

SPEAKER_04:

Yes, the process is that we do write everything on sheet music and we practice from sheet music. So the first part of practicing is making sure that you control your part and then we have to play together, obviously, and get it done. And then the last piece is memorizing everything and making sure you can play without having the sheet music in front of you. We decided from the start that we would never play with sheet music on stage because, well, it's a distraction of the attention that you need for your playing in a group to watch and hear each other. And, well, music stands tend to fall over during the performance, which is chaos. So it only has disadvantages. So we concentrate on memorizing and then putting all our attention on stage on playing it right and playing together.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, making it a good performance too. And I know you guys are very keen on entertaining the audience. That really helps, doesn't it? You don't want music stands in front of you for that so you can really entertain. Yeah, true. So going on to your 2006 album, Strutting With Some Harmonica, which is a good album. I understand Paul Gillings here in the UK did the artwork for that album.

SPEAKER_04:

Yes, he did. When we were in Bristol, we had a long conversation in the hotel bar with Paul.

SPEAKER_01:

And lots of beer.

SPEAKER_04:

Lots of beer as well yeah

SPEAKER_01:

so yeah and so again a nice variety of music on that album yeah and I think your most popular song on Spotify is She

SPEAKER_03:

yeah that's true it's our most popular one and the funny thing of She on that CD is that we we have it now on our repertoire but when we recorded the CD it was a new song and we didn't play it as a quartet until the recording so it's quite funny to see that She is the most popular song although we didn't perform it until after the recording of the cd

SPEAKER_04:

the strange things about cds about our cds is about both on the way to your heart cd and the uh for once in my life cd the pieces that actually were used for the name of the album were never performed live by us But there is a live performance of Way to Your Heart because it was copied note by note by an Asian group who

SPEAKER_01:

then put it on YouTube. And then in 2017, you released the Four Friends album, which has got four guest harmonica players. You've already mentioned Machas. And do you want to tell us about the other players who joined you on that?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. The first idea was, OK, we want to make a CD and it would be nice to invite some friends out of the music scene or people that we think, yeah, would be a joy to play with. We just made a short list of four people and we didn't know how the people would react. So we sent the first email just to investigate a bit how they think about the idea to gasp the former on our CD. In a very short time, I believe in one week, we get back four positive reactions from all four of them. The next risk, we want to let the guests choose a piece that they would like to play together with us. We don't know how much of a challenge that would be. At the end, everything worked out very well It was great fun to invite the people to the Netherlands for the recordings. So we had a great weekend together with Philip Aguil to record Fieso from Iwakowski.

SPEAKER_00:

Iwakowski

SPEAKER_02:

with Majas we also had a great weekend and later on one time we performed the song in an event in the Netherlands and I believe one time in Hungary in Budapest as well and we made a small video clip in Hungary which you can find on YouTube

SPEAKER_01:

in a field on haystacks I saw the video I'll put a clip up that's true

SPEAKER_02:

so it was great fun and still when I click the button on YouTube it still makes me smile and remember the times and the fun times that we had with Matias.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, and you mentioned Philip Achille there. You also had Antonio Serrano play a song with you as well. You first met Antonio in Jersey in 1987, didn't you? Yeah, he was 13 at the time. And I believe you beat him in a competition.

SPEAKER_04:

Yes, he played the second chromatic in the family quartet with his father, his brother and his sister. Actually, the Serrano family from Spain, they actually participated, I think, in every single competition that was going on in Jersey. so including the the group section so yes so we competed in the same in the same category and and yes we beat them so we we still have our jokes with Antonio about that when we meet him I mean he's he's an absolutely brilliant player and a very nice

SPEAKER_00:

guy

SPEAKER_04:

so

SPEAKER_01:

And you've had Hermine as well, and of course, who is another Dutch player, and she did a track with you too.

SPEAKER_02:

Yes, so Hermine came up with Spain from Czech Korea. Now, I think maybe that was even the biggest challenge for us to play because that was most out of our comfort zone. I think at the end, everything worked out very well. I think it was a great adjustment to our recording.

SPEAKER_04:

We asked them to... to select a piece that they would like to record as a harmonica player together with a harmonica group, which hadn't been done before. So we wanted them to select a piece. We would then arrange the group section behind that and record that. And then we would invite the players to the Netherlands to record their own part and listen to what the total sound picture would be. And that is exactly the way we did it. And we had the advantage of having four people from four different countries that actually played four different musical styles as well. Matthias playing blues, Hermine playing jazz, Antonio playing the Paso Doble, the Spanish Paso Doble, and Philip playing the Spivakovsky Harmonica concert, which obviously is more classical. So that was really a challenge.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it comes out great, yeah. But I believe also, Rob, you've released a solo album called Harmonica Love Songs.

UNKNOWN:

harmonica love songs

SPEAKER_04:

Well, it wasn't so much my own initiative to do a solo album. Actually, what happened was that about half a year before we went to Jersey in 1987, I was invited by a Dutch producer to play the harmonica part on a series of CDs where he was doing romantic pop songs. And those were released as a series where he did some of the pieces with the harmonica as a lead instrument, some with guitars, some with the flute, whatever. In the end, I just got the idea to buy the mastered recordings from this guy and put them on a CD. And then I decided to do one myself as well. That's a one-off thing, which normally we wouldn't do. I'm really a group player and I consider it great fun to travel and do concerts with the four of us.

SPEAKER_01:

I mean, what about the group then? You've been together in this format for 19 years. You all get along well, do you? No arguments and no problems, no chance of you guys splitting up? Do you want an honest answer? I want to hear about the flights, you know, backstage, all these sorts of

SPEAKER_03:

things. So if you would ask me what is the most important tip for a harmonica group or whatever musical group to play together, that you get along. Because when you perform as much as we do, and you mostly do that abroad, you sit for a lot of hours together in the car or in the plane. If you don't get along, then that's just not right. So we get along very good. We are not our best friends. We are so different and we are so complimentary that it's quite fun in the car. I love driving in the car with four of us because we make a lot of jokes. We have a lot of stories. We make fun of each other. And if you ask me, I don't think that if we would stop with Fata Mogada, it's not because there's a conflict or something. It would be the age of Rob, I think, or Ronald.

SPEAKER_01:

Rather Ronald, yeah. Good to hear you're still going strong then, Enoch. all get along well and um

SPEAKER_00:

yes yes

SPEAKER_01:

and again i know you guys are keen on and entertaining the audience and for this reason you quite often wear different outfits

SPEAKER_03:

yeah not only on stage off stage as well antonio serrano always makes fun of us looking the same

SPEAKER_01:

do you all have the same pajamas when you stay in a hotel together Antonio did

SPEAKER_04:

say the same thing, yeah. He did ask the question, but he didn't get an answer.

SPEAKER_01:

You've dressed up in cowboy outfits, Mexican outfits, and you have this sort of yellow and black.

SPEAKER_03:

For the unity, it's quite good to wear the same outfit. And also, for example, you know, cowboy outfits. We especially bought that in Dallas because we had a performance in Dallas. You know, in Dallas, there are lots of cowboys. Yeah, they liked it. And what we also did did there was choose music especially out of the region the crowd laughs when they hear a song out of their own region so we arranged the Dallas team for that performance and we made a special American theme block with Stars and Stripes Forever and Magnificent Seven yeah we think about what we do on stage

SPEAKER_01:

yeah and this time in Dallas this was preparing at Spa was

SPEAKER_03:

it?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. You've been over to spa a few times.

SPEAKER_03:

Well, if you ask me, I was there once in 2003 in Dallas at the spa. But I know Fata Morgana was there, but I don't know the year.

SPEAKER_04:

91 in Detroit. Yeah, that was actually the first time when there was a spa festival close to Detroit. There was a competition part as well where we participated. And that was the first time actually that Fata Morgana performed in the US. And then in 2003, we were invited So what about ensembles

SPEAKER_01:

then? So other people who might be interested in forming an ensemble? You've said it's important to, you know, to be friends. Any other tips for any people who might be interested in forming an ensemble?

SPEAKER_03:

Well, to get along for the first time, that's really important. But also it's really important that you say to each other what you want with your ensemble. For us, it's a hobby. We don't do it to make money or something, but just to have fun. So you can also say no to an invitation if you don't like it. We also make the agreement that we like the songs we are playing. But also when we arrange, not me, but Ronald or Rob, they always look at make it a little challenge for the individual players. So that it's not just playing fun, but it's also to get better on the harmonica. And what is also important, if you make an agreement that you want to play on stage with your ensemble, then you have to realize that the crowd, they also have to love it. So you must also choose songs of which you know the crowd loves.

SPEAKER_01:

So a question I ask each time, it's a 10 minutes question. So it'd be interesting how we can answer this one from the group point of view. So maybe as a group ensemble, if you maybe You've only got a short amount of time to practice. What do you spend the 10 minutes working on?

SPEAKER_03:

If you always have the number of the title on your repertoire, then you practice with all four. Because when you play it a few times with all four, you also get to get used to the sound of the others. You can listen to them and you can adjust to each other to make it more rhythm. Also the volume. If you ask me, I would prefer rehearsing with the four, the whole title, a few times.

SPEAKER_01:

So yeah, we just finished off in the last section, we're talking about gear. So we touched on some of this already, but first of all, the harmonica brands you use.

SPEAKER_04:

Most of it is definitely Hohner We're talking to Hohner about becoming a Hohner endorser, which we are. We told them that, yes, we play Hohner, but we do not play Hohner exclusively. In specific cases, we play other brands as well. I use, let's say, a whole range of different chromatic harmonicas depending on the piece that I'm playing. I mean, one instrument that I'm playing is actually a combination of three brands in one harmonica. The body and the reeds are Suzuki. Then the outside is a Hohner CX-12 model, but it has been tuned especially to my needs by Brandon Power. The sound and the way it responds is exactly what I like for that particular piece. I only play one piece with it.

SPEAKER_01:

Of course, Suzuki, they make some great orchestral instruments as well. The equipment you use for performing, I understand you've had quite a few issues over the years with the mixing desk that you use, and what sort of sound system do you use to amplify yourselves?

SPEAKER_02:

When you refer to the mixing console, what What we particularly do, I think, is a bit different than what other people are doing, which brings us a certain flexibility, is that we have a footswitch on stage with presets that we can use to change from one preset to the other without moving to the mixing console. So what we can do, we can make a preset, one for the typical standard formation that we have, two for Monica's bass and chords. When Rob has the lead, then he's a bit louder than Paul is. But then the next setup could be Paul has the lead, Rob plays the harmonetta, and then bass and chord, and then we just need a different setup. We can easily switch from one setting for one song to the next setting for the next song.

SPEAKER_01:

So microphone-wise, I know it can be quite a challenge with the bass and the chord, so what microphones do you use for the bass and the chord?

SPEAKER_03:

For the bass, I use the Suzuki microphone, especially made for the bass. The bass I play is a Honda bass. We put the Suzuki

SPEAKER_01:

microphone on the mono bass. And the chords and the chromatics that you're just playing through microphones on the microphone stands?

SPEAKER_04:

Suzuki manufactures a chord microphone as well. And we did try that as well. But it turned out that it was picking up sounds not only from the harmonica, but all sorts of sounds from all directions. So we decided not to do that. So for both the chromatics and the chord harmonica, we use standard wireless microphones. The chord harmonica microphone is placed on the microphone stand because Antal needs both hands, obviously, to hold and move his harmonica. And the two chromatics, they have normal wireless microphones that we keep in our hands together with the harmonica. And then we have a special make for the harmonetta because the strange thing about the harmonetta is that it has an upper and a lower reed plate which has reeds in it with one tone different. So to get the complete sound, you need two microphones that pick up the sound both both from the upper and the lower part of the instrument. Well, let's say a long time ago when we had Lex as a chord player, he was an electronic guy and he built a special specific Fato Morgana microphone for the harmonetta. And that has been built somewhere in

SPEAKER_01:

the early 90s and we still use it. So brilliant. And you use wireless microphones, as you say, is that just so you can move around more and keep the sound more consistently close up to the chromatics?

SPEAKER_04:

It is both that and the fact that if you use wireless microphones, then you're built up time of the equipment when you go to a concert is a lot shorter.

SPEAKER_01:

What about any effects? Any particular effects pedals?

SPEAKER_04:

Pedals we don't use. We pick the effects as part of the sound settings that we create when we put in the sound preset for a particular setup.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, so is that usually a bit of reverb, a bit of delay maybe? Exactly, exactly. Okay, so final question now then guys. So we're talking about future plans. Hopefully we're coming out pandemic next year. I see you've got a few gigs lined up on your website so you're hoping to get out there playing again next year

SPEAKER_04:

yeah well we do have a few on the website we obviously are waiting for what happens to the ones that were cancelled in 2020 I hope that by the time we get to June 2021 that the Estonian festival will actually take place because we were invited for that and that would be a very pleasant experience again and then obviously beginning of November we've got the World Harmonica Festival in Trossingen again

SPEAKER_01:

so hopefully next year things will open up your be able to get out there playing again. I look forward to being able to see you play again myself. Thanks very much for joining me, Fatima Ghorna. That's Rob, Paul, Ronald and Antal. It's great to speak to you and the group conversation worked very well.

SPEAKER_03:

Thank you. Thank you very

SPEAKER_01:

much. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. That's episode 30 of the podcast done. Thanks so much for listening again. And great on this milestone episode to have my first harmonica group on and talking to more than one person at once. It worked great. And thanks to Fatima Garner for the music and for keeping the tradition going of the harmonica group. Final words to my sponsor again, the Longwell Blues Company, making purpose-built effects and amplifiers for harmonica. Go and check out the website and enhance that sound. And finally, I leave you in the capable hands of the Fatima Garner Group, who sure know how to put on the

SPEAKER_00:

ritz. Thank you.