{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Presenter","startTime":0.96,"endTime":3.48,"body":"Hi everyone, we've"},{"speaker":"Presenter","startTime":0.96,"endTime":3.48,"body":"set up this being an engineer"},{"speaker":"Presenter","startTime":3.48,"endTime":8.04,"body":"podcast as an industry knowledge"},{"speaker":"Presenter","startTime":3.48,"endTime":8.04,"body":"repository, if you will, we hope"},{"speaker":"Presenter","startTime":8.04,"endTime":10.8,"body":"it'll be a tool where engineers"},{"speaker":"Presenter","startTime":8.04,"endTime":10.8,"body":"can learn about and connect with"},{"speaker":"Presenter","startTime":10.8,"endTime":13.83,"body":"other companies, technologies,"},{"speaker":"Presenter","startTime":10.8,"endTime":13.83,"body":"people, resources and"},{"speaker":"Presenter","startTime":13.83,"endTime":17.76,"body":"opportunities. So make some"},{"speaker":"Presenter","startTime":13.83,"endTime":17.76,"body":"connections and enjoy the show."},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":18.96,"endTime":21.0,"body":"And say you have to"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":18.96,"endTime":21.0,"body":"make sure that everything works"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":21.0,"endTime":23.55,"body":"together, they have enough food"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":21.0,"endTime":23.55,"body":"and water and supplies and"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":23.55,"endTime":26.22,"body":"everything to get to the top of"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":23.55,"endTime":26.22,"body":"the mountain. And a lot of"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":26.22,"endTime":28.77,"body":"times, we just simply don't do"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":26.22,"endTime":28.77,"body":"that. It's just a lot of"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":28.77,"endTime":33.24,"body":"assumptions, a lot of focus on"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":28.77,"endTime":33.24,"body":"us and what we do, and very"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":33.24,"endTime":36.36,"body":"little focus on the client and"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":33.24,"endTime":36.36,"body":"the client's needs."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":50.52,"endTime":53.28,"body":"Hello, and welcome"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":50.52,"endTime":53.28,"body":"to another episode of The being"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":53.31,"endTime":57.72,"body":"an engineer Podcast. Today we're"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":53.31,"endTime":57.72,"body":"speaking with Pam Hurley, who is"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":57.72,"endTime":61.41,"body":"the founder of Hurley write,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":57.72,"endTime":61.41,"body":"Inc, where she has developed a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":61.41,"endTime":64.74,"body":"curriculum that hundreds of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":61.41,"endTime":64.74,"body":"companies use to improve their"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":64.74,"endTime":69.18,"body":"team's writing, reviewing and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":64.74,"endTime":69.18,"body":"presentation skills. From"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":69.18,"endTime":71.94,"body":"personal experience, I can tell"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":69.18,"endTime":71.94,"body":"you that technical writing is an"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":71.94,"endTime":75.09,"body":"area many engineers struggle"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":71.94,"endTime":75.09,"body":"with. And if you're one of those"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":75.09,"endTime":79.38,"body":"engineers, it is holding you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":75.09,"endTime":79.38,"body":"back from opportunities that"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":79.38,"endTime":82.86,"body":"would otherwise be available to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":79.38,"endTime":82.86,"body":"you. So let's get into it. Pam,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":82.89,"endTime":84.09,"body":"welcome to the show."},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":84.36,"endTime":86.19,"body":"Well, thank you for"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":84.36,"endTime":86.19,"body":"having me. I'm excited to be"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":86.19,"endTime":86.7,"body":"here."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":87.3,"endTime":91.02,"body":"Tell me how did"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":87.3,"endTime":91.02,"body":"you first see the need in the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":91.05,"endTime":93.3,"body":"technical world for better"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":91.05,"endTime":93.3,"body":"writing skills?"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":93.63,"endTime":96.36,"body":"Oh, that's a great"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":93.63,"endTime":96.36,"body":"question. I was teaching in"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":96.36,"endTime":102.36,"body":"academia. And I realized that a"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":96.36,"endTime":102.36,"body":"lot of the writing courses that"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":102.36,"endTime":107.25,"body":"were available, were just not"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":102.36,"endTime":107.25,"body":"preparing students to, to live"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":107.25,"endTime":111.87,"body":"in the real world. I developed"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":107.25,"endTime":111.87,"body":"the technical writing class, a"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":111.87,"endTime":114.84,"body":"foundational and then an"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":111.87,"endTime":114.84,"body":"advanced class with a head to"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":114.84,"endTime":119.16,"body":"use writing in real world"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":114.84,"endTime":119.16,"body":"applications. So had them do"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":119.16,"endTime":122.82,"body":"feasibility studies and things"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":119.16,"endTime":122.82,"body":"like that. Because the sad"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":122.82,"endTime":127.38,"body":"reality is, is that most"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":122.82,"endTime":127.38,"body":"universities are pretty poor job"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":127.38,"endTime":130.62,"body":"of teaching folks, especially"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":127.38,"endTime":130.62,"body":"engineers, how to write in the"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":130.62,"endTime":135.51,"body":"real world. And so my goal was"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":130.62,"endTime":135.51,"body":"to help them on that journey to"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":135.51,"endTime":139.23,"body":"understand that they weren't"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":135.51,"endTime":139.23,"body":"have to write a lot of engineers"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":139.23,"endTime":142.05,"body":"like Oh, I'm we hear that from"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":139.23,"endTime":142.05,"body":"clients all I just wanted to be"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":142.05,"endTime":145.44,"body":"an engineer, I didn't want to"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":142.05,"endTime":145.44,"body":"write, and not understanding"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":145.44,"endTime":148.8,"body":"that in most professions, you"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":145.44,"endTime":148.8,"body":"have to write and you have to"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":148.8,"endTime":151.77,"body":"write well, to your point, if"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":148.8,"endTime":151.77,"body":"you don't write well, you are"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":151.77,"endTime":152.7,"body":"being held back."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":154.44,"endTime":157.62,"body":"A very experienced"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":154.44,"endTime":157.62,"body":"engineer I worked with towards"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":157.62,"endTime":161.55,"body":"the beginning of my career once"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":157.62,"endTime":161.55,"body":"told me, the output of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":161.55,"endTime":166.92,"body":"engineering is documentation."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":161.55,"endTime":166.92,"body":"And documentation is is, uh, so"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":166.92,"endTime":171.6,"body":"critical, right? Not all"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":166.92,"endTime":171.6,"body":"engineers love doing"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":171.6,"endTime":174.69,"body":"documentation. But as part of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":171.6,"endTime":174.69,"body":"the job, right? It comes with"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":174.69,"endTime":178.35,"body":"the territory. And I said it in"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":174.69,"endTime":178.35,"body":"the beginning of this episode,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":178.35,"endTime":181.35,"body":"if you're not good at technical"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":178.35,"endTime":181.35,"body":"writing, you're missing out on"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":181.35,"endTime":183.87,"body":"opportunities that would"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":181.35,"endTime":183.87,"body":"otherwise be available to you."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":184.11,"endTime":184.95,"body":"Yes, exactly."},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":184.95,"endTime":186.48,"body":"Right. One of the"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":184.95,"endTime":186.48,"body":"things we talked about in our"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":186.48,"endTime":189.75,"body":"classes, one of the first things"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":186.48,"endTime":189.75,"body":"I say when I teach and hopefully"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":189.75,"endTime":193.8,"body":"my instructors do as well as the"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":189.75,"endTime":193.8,"body":"document is the deliverable. It"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":193.8,"endTime":196.71,"body":"doesn't matter if you do great"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":193.8,"endTime":196.71,"body":"work behind the scenes if you"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":196.71,"endTime":200.58,"body":"can't convey the results, or one"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":196.71,"endTime":200.58,"body":"of the things we see a lot with"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":200.76,"endTime":205.5,"body":"engineers, specifically is that"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":200.76,"endTime":205.5,"body":"they can be incredibly verbose,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":205.68,"endTime":208.65,"body":"including unnecessary details"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":205.68,"endTime":208.65,"body":"such as really difficult for"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":208.65,"endTime":211.02,"body":"your readers to read and get"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":208.65,"endTime":211.02,"body":"through the information. It"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":211.02,"endTime":213.54,"body":"does. Your the work that you do"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":211.02,"endTime":213.54,"body":"behind the scenes just doesn't"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":213.54,"endTime":216.45,"body":"matter, because the document is"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":213.54,"endTime":216.45,"body":"the deliverable."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":216.93,"endTime":220.92,"body":"Yeah. I've alluded"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":216.93,"endTime":220.92,"body":"to this already. But based on"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":220.92,"endTime":224.61,"body":"the plethora of experience that"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":220.92,"endTime":224.61,"body":"you have had, what are engineers"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":224.64,"endTime":228.3,"body":"missing out on by not having"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":224.64,"endTime":228.3,"body":"great writing skills?"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":228.66,"endTime":231.36,"body":"Oh, my goodness, the"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":228.66,"endTime":231.36,"body":"list goes on and on. And on"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":231.39,"endTime":236.1,"body":"promotions, we work with a major"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":231.39,"endTime":236.1,"body":"aerospace company, and their"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":236.1,"endTime":240.9,"body":"engineers to get to the position"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":236.1,"endTime":240.9,"body":"of fellow have to write personal"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":240.9,"endTime":243.63,"body":"essays, essays about why they"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":240.9,"endTime":243.63,"body":"should be promoted and things"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":243.63,"endTime":250.11,"body":"like that. And so they hired us"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":243.63,"endTime":250.11,"body":"to help those folks write those"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":250.11,"endTime":253.89,"body":"essays, because the essays were"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":250.11,"endTime":253.89,"body":"so poor, that literally one of"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":253.89,"endTime":259.98,"body":"the directors was spending days"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":253.89,"endTime":259.98,"body":"rewriting these essays for his"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":259.98,"endTime":263.43,"body":"engineer so that they can be"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":259.98,"endTime":263.43,"body":"committed to these pretty"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":263.43,"endTime":267.36,"body":"prestigious levels. So they're"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":263.43,"endTime":267.36,"body":"missing out on opportunities in"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":267.36,"endTime":271.65,"body":"terms of business, they're"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":267.36,"endTime":271.65,"body":"missing out on promotions, you"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":271.65,"endTime":273.75,"body":"know, they're missing out on"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":271.65,"endTime":273.75,"body":"just, you know, one of the"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":273.75,"endTime":276.78,"body":"things about writing as people"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":273.75,"endTime":276.78,"body":"kind of tend to see it in a"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":276.78,"endTime":280.17,"body":"vacuum is that well writing is"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":276.78,"endTime":280.17,"body":"this one activity that we do"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":280.17,"endTime":282.63,"body":"that has no bearing on anything"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":280.17,"endTime":282.63,"body":"else that we do, which is"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":282.72,"endTime":286.02,"body":"totally incorrect. So the"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":282.72,"endTime":286.02,"body":"opportunity to build"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":286.02,"endTime":289.23,"body":"relationships, to build rapport,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":286.02,"endTime":289.23,"body":"to show yourself in a"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":289.23,"endTime":293.61,"body":"professional light. All of those"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":289.23,"endTime":293.61,"body":"things people miss out on when"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":293.61,"endTime":294.99,"body":"their writing skills are poor."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":295.89,"endTime":299.4,"body":"Yeah, I tell young"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":295.89,"endTime":299.4,"body":"engineers frequently that"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":300.63,"endTime":303.66,"body":"There's only so far you can go"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":300.63,"endTime":303.66,"body":"in your career by being really"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":303.66,"endTime":306.36,"body":"good. Technically, that's"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":303.66,"endTime":306.36,"body":"important for sure, you need to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":306.36,"endTime":310.17,"body":"have at least a certain level of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":306.36,"endTime":310.17,"body":"expertise in your field from a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":310.17,"endTime":313.86,"body":"technical standpoint, but"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":310.17,"endTime":313.86,"body":"there's a ceiling there, if your"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":313.98,"endTime":317.73,"body":"only skills are technical, if"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":313.98,"endTime":317.73,"body":"you don't have the communication"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":317.73,"endTime":321.6,"body":"skills, the soft skills than"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":317.73,"endTime":321.6,"body":"there's a ceiling beyond which"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":321.6,"endTime":327.03,"body":"it's hard to achieve. But if you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":321.6,"endTime":327.03,"body":"have that minimum technical"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":327.03,"endTime":331.08,"body":"skill set, and you're also"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":327.03,"endTime":331.08,"body":"really good with communication"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":331.08,"endTime":334.2,"body":"and soft skills, there's almost"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":331.08,"endTime":334.2,"body":"no limit to how far you can go."},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":334.5,"endTime":336.57,"body":"Totally agree with"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":334.5,"endTime":336.57,"body":"you. Yeah, I mean, I totally"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":336.57,"endTime":338.64,"body":"agree, even even at comes with"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":336.57,"endTime":338.64,"body":"presentations, when you're"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":338.64,"endTime":341.55,"body":"presenting information to, you"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":338.64,"endTime":341.55,"body":"know, to clients, to"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":341.55,"endTime":343.83,"body":"stakeholders, that kind of"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":341.55,"endTime":343.83,"body":"thing, they have to be clear,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":343.83,"endTime":346.44,"body":"there has to be it has to be"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":343.83,"endTime":346.44,"body":"crisp. I mean, the interesting"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":346.44,"endTime":349.47,"body":"thing is that people's attention"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":346.44,"endTime":349.47,"body":"span, I know, you know, this,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":349.47,"endTime":352.62,"body":"I'm sure your listeners do as"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":349.47,"endTime":352.62,"body":"well, people's attention spans"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":352.62,"endTime":357.69,"body":"have gone down to nothing. And"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":352.62,"endTime":357.69,"body":"so one of the things that"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":357.93,"endTime":361.44,"body":"engineers and all writers need"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":357.93,"endTime":361.44,"body":"to understand is okay, if that's"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":361.44,"endTime":366.15,"body":"the case, then now how do we"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":361.44,"endTime":366.15,"body":"pivot? So that we can write"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":366.15,"endTime":370.86,"body":"documents for readers or make"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":366.15,"endTime":370.86,"body":"presentations for audiences who"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":370.86,"endTime":374.55,"body":"have short attention spans?"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":370.86,"endTime":374.55,"body":"Because that's, that's the,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":374.58,"endTime":377.19,"body":"that's the reality of that"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":374.58,"endTime":377.19,"body":"thing. So you have to be in a in"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":377.19,"endTime":381.57,"body":"a in a state where you're"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":377.19,"endTime":381.57,"body":"constantly adjusting to meet"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":381.57,"endTime":384.27,"body":"your readers needs and to meet"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":381.57,"endTime":384.27,"body":"your audience's needs."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":384.6,"endTime":386.31,"body":"Yeah, I'm sorry,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":384.6,"endTime":386.31,"body":"Pam, could you repeat that? I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":386.31,"endTime":389.58,"body":"was checking my text messages."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":386.31,"endTime":389.58,"body":"Oh, which one? I'm sorry, the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":389.58,"endTime":394.98,"body":"whole thing. Just kidding. My"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":389.58,"endTime":394.98,"body":"attention span. That's a good"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":394.98,"endTime":402.12,"body":"one. I love that. That's"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":394.98,"endTime":402.12,"body":"awesome. All right. All right."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":403.95,"endTime":410.88,"body":"Okay, so I appreciate it. Thank"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":403.95,"endTime":410.88,"body":"you very much. We have some"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":410.88,"endTime":414.24,"body":"wonderful, wonderful engineers"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":410.88,"endTime":414.24,"body":"here at pipeline. And I've"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":414.24,"endTime":417.27,"body":"noticed that, despite the fact"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":414.24,"endTime":417.27,"body":"that they have terrific"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":417.27,"endTime":422.04,"body":"technical skills, some of them"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":417.27,"endTime":422.04,"body":"not all of them are not the best"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":422.04,"endTime":427.05,"body":"writers. And the grammar gets me"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":422.04,"endTime":427.05,"body":"right, like misspelled words,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":427.2,"endTime":431.1,"body":"inappropriate punctuation or"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":427.2,"endTime":431.1,"body":"lack of punctuation. So grammar"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":431.1,"endTime":434.91,"body":"is part of of writing. But"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":431.1,"endTime":434.91,"body":"what's what's the difference"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":434.91,"endTime":438.63,"body":"between good writing and good"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":434.91,"endTime":438.63,"body":"grammar? And which do you think"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":438.63,"endTime":439.71,"body":"is more important?"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":439.769,"endTime":442.229,"body":"That's a really"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":439.769,"endTime":442.229,"body":"great question. Good writing is"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":442.649,"endTime":445.199,"body":"far more important than good"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":442.649,"endTime":445.199,"body":"grammar will get caught calls"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":445.199,"endTime":447.779,"body":"all the time from builder"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":445.199,"endTime":447.779,"body":"grammar, the grammar steeks are"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":447.779,"endTime":450.839,"body":"blah, blah, blah, blah, okay,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":447.779,"endTime":450.839,"body":"well, grammar is easy to fit,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":451.199,"endTime":455.309,"body":"thinking not so easy to fix. And"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":451.199,"endTime":455.309,"body":"so one of the things we talked"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":455.309,"endTime":458.519,"body":"about in our classes, we very"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":455.309,"endTime":458.519,"body":"rarely ever talk about grammar,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":458.519,"endTime":462.029,"body":"because grammar is something"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":458.519,"endTime":462.029,"body":"that can be AI can fix grammar"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":462.029,"endTime":466.979,"body":"for you. Ai can't fix thinking."},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":462.029,"endTime":466.979,"body":"And so philosophers have said"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":467.009,"endTime":471.839,"body":"for 1000s of years that writing"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":467.009,"endTime":471.839,"body":"is thinking on paper. And so"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":471.839,"endTime":475.019,"body":"when you read something, and"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":471.839,"endTime":475.019,"body":"you're like, wow, I don't"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":475.019,"endTime":477.599,"body":"understand what this person"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":475.019,"endTime":477.599,"body":"said, people don't give you the"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":477.599,"endTime":480.929,"body":"benefit of the doubt. They"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":477.599,"endTime":480.929,"body":"think, oh, well, Pam, she's just"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":481.049,"endTime":484.379,"body":"she's a terrible writer. She's a"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":481.049,"endTime":484.379,"body":"terrible thinker. So the list,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":484.409,"endTime":487.949,"body":"you know it, it really does"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":484.409,"endTime":487.949,"body":"snowball, people don't look at"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":487.949,"endTime":491.849,"body":"something Oh, well, I think I"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":487.949,"endTime":491.849,"body":"know what she meant to say. They"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":491.849,"endTime":494.879,"body":"are not going to be forgiving,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":491.849,"endTime":494.879,"body":"because the other part of that"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":494.879,"endTime":498.119,"body":"is people are bombarded with"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":494.879,"endTime":498.119,"body":"information. So thinking is"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":498.119,"endTime":501.599,"body":"critical when you have to think"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":498.119,"endTime":501.599,"body":"about. So one of the things I"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":501.599,"endTime":505.229,"body":"love about engineers is they are"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":501.599,"endTime":505.229,"body":"wonderful thinkers, they're"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":505.229,"endTime":509.039,"body":"great strategists are great"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":505.229,"endTime":509.039,"body":"problem solvers. But when it"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":509.039,"endTime":514.379,"body":"comes to writing, all that falls"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":509.039,"endTime":514.379,"body":"to them all that falls apart."},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":514.379,"endTime":517.859,"body":"And I blame that on academia to"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":514.379,"endTime":517.859,"body":"be quite honest with you."},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":517.859,"endTime":522.329,"body":"Because as I've said, before,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":517.859,"endTime":522.329,"body":"academia does a really poor job"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":522.329,"endTime":526.469,"body":"of teaching people how to write,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":522.329,"endTime":526.469,"body":"they don't, that they don't"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":526.469,"endTime":530.339,"body":"marry it to critical thinking."},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":526.469,"endTime":530.339,"body":"And it's one way and one way"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":530.339,"endTime":532.499,"body":"only and they view it as you"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":530.339,"endTime":532.499,"body":"know, they teach it as a linear"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":532.499,"endTime":535.739,"body":"process. First you outline and"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":532.499,"endTime":535.739,"body":"then you do the first draft, and"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":535.739,"endTime":538.679,"body":"then maybe do a second draft."},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":535.739,"endTime":538.679,"body":"Does that tell people right? But"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":538.679,"endTime":540.509,"body":"what if you're not good at"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":538.679,"endTime":540.509,"body":"outlining? What if your brain"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":540.509,"endTime":543.989,"body":"doesn't work that way? Right?"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":540.509,"endTime":543.989,"body":"When When engineers solve a"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":543.989,"endTime":546.389,"body":"problem, they don't want to go"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":543.989,"endTime":546.389,"body":"what kind of goes one way to"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":546.389,"endTime":550.619,"body":"solve this problem? They look at"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":546.389,"endTime":550.619,"body":"multiple ways to solve a problem"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":550.619,"endTime":555.239,"body":"and writing is exactly the same"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":550.619,"endTime":555.239,"body":"battle exactly the same thing."},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":555.239,"endTime":557.699,"body":"There's more than one way to"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":555.239,"endTime":557.699,"body":"solve any writing problem."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":558.3,"endTime":560.22,"body":"I love the way you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":558.3,"endTime":560.22,"body":"put that I guess it's not you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":560.22,"endTime":563.19,"body":"philosophers throughout the ages"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":560.22,"endTime":563.19,"body":"writing his thinking on paper."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":563.19,"endTime":565.47,"body":"I've never heard it put like"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":563.19,"endTime":565.47,"body":"that before. But that makes a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":565.47,"endTime":569.13,"body":"lot of sense. I love that. And I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":565.47,"endTime":569.13,"body":"was going to ask you about well,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":569.13,"endTime":572.7,"body":"what about programs tools like"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":569.13,"endTime":572.7,"body":"Grammarly? Don't they just fix"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":572.7,"endTime":575.31,"body":"everything. But as you pointed"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":572.7,"endTime":575.31,"body":"out, they just fixed the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":575.31,"endTime":578.4,"body":"grammar, not the underlying"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":575.31,"endTime":578.4,"body":"thought process, which is really"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":578.4,"endTime":580.59,"body":"the most important part of the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":578.4,"endTime":580.59,"body":"writing."},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":580.83,"endTime":582.96,"body":"Exactly. Right."},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":580.83,"endTime":582.96,"body":"Yeah. Because I mean, again,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":582.96,"endTime":585.51,"body":"people make judgments about you"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":582.96,"endTime":585.51,"body":"based on your document, whether"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":585.51,"endTime":590.22,"body":"you like it or not, and you can"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":585.51,"endTime":590.22,"body":"have perfect grammar, right, and"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":590.22,"endTime":592.47,"body":"the document just be"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":590.22,"endTime":592.47,"body":"incomprehensible. In fact, most"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":592.47,"endTime":596.85,"body":"documents that we see are"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":592.47,"endTime":596.85,"body":"grammatically correct, right"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":596.85,"endTime":599.67,"body":"with maybe a few punctuation"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":596.85,"endTime":599.67,"body":"errors and things like that."},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":600.0,"endTime":603.63,"body":"But, you know, if I have a few"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":600.0,"endTime":603.63,"body":"misspelled words, but the"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":603.63,"endTime":607.2,"body":"content is there, I'm more"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":603.63,"endTime":607.2,"body":"likely to overlook the"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":607.2,"endTime":610.62,"body":"misspelled words. Now I'm not"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":607.2,"endTime":610.62,"body":"I'm not talking about agree"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":610.62,"endTime":614.07,"body":"just, you know, 50,000"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":610.62,"endTime":614.07,"body":"misspelled words, one or two"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":614.07,"endTime":617.58,"body":"misspelled words, if the content"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":614.07,"endTime":617.58,"body":"is there, and the logic is"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":617.58,"endTime":621.09,"body":"there, then I'm going to be a"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":617.58,"endTime":621.09,"body":"lot more likely to overlook the"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":621.09,"endTime":623.88,"body":"grammar problems, because those"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":621.09,"endTime":623.88,"body":"are those are, that's minutia"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":623.91,"endTime":626.19,"body":"that's minor, we can fix that"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":623.91,"endTime":626.19,"body":"fat."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":627.149,"endTime":629.759,"body":"I love that"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":627.149,"endTime":629.759,"body":"focusing on the core of the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":629.759,"endTime":635.009,"body":"problem, not superficial stuff."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":629.759,"endTime":635.009,"body":"I once heard someone talk about"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":635.039,"endTime":640.049,"body":"the writing reports within the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":635.039,"endTime":640.049,"body":"context of engineering. And"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":640.049,"endTime":642.869,"body":"someone said, you know, reports"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":640.049,"endTime":642.869,"body":"are a waste of time, half the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":642.869,"endTime":646.679,"body":"time the person writes the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":642.869,"endTime":646.679,"body":"report, and it just sits on a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":646.679,"endTime":649.109,"body":"desk somewhere, no one even"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":646.679,"endTime":649.109,"body":"reads it. So what's what's even"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":649.109,"endTime":652.079,"body":"the point of writing reports,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":649.109,"endTime":652.079,"body":"and I can't remember who this"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":652.079,"endTime":654.989,"body":"was. But the response stuck with"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":652.079,"endTime":654.989,"body":"me, I thought it was very"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":654.989,"endTime":659.099,"body":"insightful. The gentleman who is"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":654.989,"endTime":659.099,"body":"speaking said that the purpose"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":659.099,"endTime":661.559,"body":"of the report yes is to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":659.099,"endTime":661.559,"body":"communicate some information to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":661.559,"endTime":665.519,"body":"someone. But arguably the most"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":661.559,"endTime":665.519,"body":"important part of that report is"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":665.519,"endTime":671.699,"body":"to help the writer really"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":665.519,"endTime":671.699,"body":"concisely understand what he or"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":671.699,"endTime":675.599,"body":"she is trying to communicate, to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":671.699,"endTime":675.599,"body":"clarify, in the writers own"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":675.599,"endTime":678.989,"body":"mind, what's happening. And, and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":675.599,"endTime":678.989,"body":"by the end of that process of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":678.989,"endTime":682.709,"body":"writing this report, the writer"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":678.989,"endTime":682.709,"body":"really understands this content"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":682.709,"endTime":686.069,"body":"very well. And that's as"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":682.709,"endTime":686.069,"body":"important, if not, in some cases"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":686.069,"endTime":689.099,"body":"more important than being able"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":686.069,"endTime":689.099,"body":"to disseminate that information"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":689.099,"endTime":690.719,"body":"to other people. And best,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":690.93,"endTime":692.73,"body":"that's 100%."},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":690.93,"endTime":692.73,"body":"Correct. I mean, it's something"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":692.73,"endTime":695.55,"body":"about writing it down, that"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":692.73,"endTime":695.55,"body":"makes it real, right. Because if"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":695.55,"endTime":697.44,"body":"you're trying to think about"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":695.55,"endTime":697.44,"body":"things in your brain all the"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":697.44,"endTime":699.27,"body":"time, one of the things we"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":697.44,"endTime":699.27,"body":"talked about in our writing"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":699.27,"endTime":702.39,"body":"course is, you know, you have to"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":699.27,"endTime":702.39,"body":"know who you're writing for. And"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":702.39,"endTime":705.54,"body":"we actually asked students to"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":702.39,"endTime":705.54,"body":"ask participants in our classes"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":705.54,"endTime":708.72,"body":"to write those things down."},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":705.54,"endTime":708.72,"body":"Because if it's just going on in"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":708.72,"endTime":711.39,"body":"your brain, you've got a million"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":708.72,"endTime":711.39,"body":"things going on in your brain at"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":711.39,"endTime":715.35,"body":"any given time. But writing it"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":711.39,"endTime":715.35,"body":"down makes it real, and then you"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":715.35,"endTime":718.02,"body":"can work on it. And the other"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":715.35,"endTime":718.02,"body":"interesting thing, it's called"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":718.02,"endTime":721.17,"body":"incubation, I don't know what"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":718.02,"endTime":721.17,"body":"the scientific term for it is."},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":721.38,"endTime":724.44,"body":"But if you write something down,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":721.38,"endTime":724.44,"body":"your brain is continually"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":724.5,"endTime":727.71,"body":"continuing to work on it, even"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":724.5,"endTime":727.71,"body":"if you're not physically working"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":727.71,"endTime":730.98,"body":"on it. But that doesn't happen"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":727.71,"endTime":730.98,"body":"if you haven't written it down."},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":731.31,"endTime":735.72,"body":"So it's it is it's a, it's a,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":731.31,"endTime":735.72,"body":"it's a great way for for writers"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":735.72,"endTime":738.21,"body":"to understand if they understand"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":735.72,"endTime":738.21,"body":"something, and I think it was"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":738.21,"endTime":741.63,"body":"Einstein, who said, If you can't"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":738.21,"endTime":741.63,"body":"explain it simply, you simply"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":741.66,"endTime":744.72,"body":"don't understand it. It was one"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":741.66,"endTime":744.72,"body":"of the it's one of those really"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":744.72,"endTime":748.08,"body":"smart guys who said, you said"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":744.72,"endTime":748.08,"body":"that, and it's true."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":749.46,"endTime":751.53,"body":"Speaking of really"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":749.46,"endTime":751.53,"body":"smart guys who said things,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":751.56,"endTime":755.43,"body":"there was a French philosopher"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":751.56,"endTime":755.43,"body":"Blaise Pascal, who once said in"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":799.1199999999999,"endTime":801.4000000000001,"body":"a letter to an acquaintance, I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":799.1199999999999,"endTime":801.4000000000001,"body":"would have written a shorter"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":801.4000000000001,"endTime":805.69,"body":"letter, but I didn't have the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":801.4000000000001,"endTime":805.69,"body":"time. The inference there being"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":805.69,"endTime":809.1700000000001,"body":"that our communication can be"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":805.69,"endTime":809.1700000000001,"body":"shorter and more succinct, if we"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":809.1700000000001,"endTime":813.6099999999999,"body":"take the time to make it. So do"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":809.1700000000001,"endTime":813.6099999999999,"body":"you find that poor written"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":813.6099999999999,"endTime":817.3599999999999,"body":"communication is more often the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":813.6099999999999,"endTime":817.3599999999999,"body":"result of not spending enough"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":817.3599999999999,"endTime":819.8199999999999,"body":"time on it? Or where lack of the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":817.3599999999999,"endTime":819.8199999999999,"body":"skill?"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":820.3299999999999,"endTime":823.3,"body":"I think it's not"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":820.3299999999999,"endTime":823.3,"body":"spending enough time on it? I'm"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":823.45,"endTime":827.8599999999999,"body":"planning, most writers can be"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":823.45,"endTime":827.8599999999999,"body":"spending about 80% of their con"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":827.8599999999999,"endTime":831.28,"body":"planning, and only 20% of their"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":827.8599999999999,"endTime":831.28,"body":"time writing, but they don't"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":831.28,"endTime":835.3900000000001,"body":"what most writers do is they,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":831.28,"endTime":835.3900000000001,"body":"they hate it, as you suggested"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":835.3900000000001,"endTime":838.75,"body":"earlier, most most engineers,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":835.3900000000001,"endTime":838.75,"body":"most professionals we talked to,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":838.75,"endTime":841.27,"body":"you'll ask, Hey, how many people"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":838.75,"endTime":841.27,"body":"in this class like, right? And"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":841.27,"endTime":844.96,"body":"you might get one or two people?"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":841.27,"endTime":844.96,"body":"And that is it? Right? So if"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":844.96,"endTime":849.6700000000001,"body":"you're faced with a task that"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":844.96,"endTime":849.6700000000001,"body":"you don't enjoy, human human"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":849.6700000000001,"endTime":851.8599999999999,"body":"beings being what they are, what"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":849.6700000000001,"endTime":851.8599999999999,"body":"did they do they put it all"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":851.8900000000001,"endTime":853.96,"body":"right, regardless of what it is,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":851.8900000000001,"endTime":853.96,"body":"whether it's writing, or"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":853.96,"endTime":858.19,"body":"whatever the whatever the case"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":853.96,"endTime":858.19,"body":"may be. And then there's a"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":858.19,"endTime":861.22,"body":"struggle at the end, or this"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":858.19,"endTime":861.22,"body":"hustle at the end to get it"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":861.22,"endTime":865.03,"body":"done. When you do that, you're"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":861.22,"endTime":865.03,"body":"not letting you're not giving"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":865.03,"endTime":868.0,"body":"your brain the opportunity to"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":865.03,"endTime":868.0,"body":"solve that problem, that writing"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":868.0,"endTime":871.45,"body":"problem, who am I writing for?"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":868.0,"endTime":871.45,"body":"What am I trying to achieve?"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":871.45,"endTime":875.23,"body":"What do I want them to do? Etc,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":871.45,"endTime":875.23,"body":"etc. You're just kind of putting"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":875.23,"endTime":878.56,"body":"words on paper and and hoping"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":875.23,"endTime":878.56,"body":"for the best. The other thing I"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":878.56,"endTime":881.6800000000001,"body":"will say about this, though, is"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":878.56,"endTime":881.6800000000001,"body":"a lot of organizations, we've"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":881.6800000000001,"endTime":885.28,"body":"been in business for 35 plus"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":881.6800000000001,"endTime":885.28,"body":"years. So we work with a lot of"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":885.28,"endTime":888.4000000000001,"body":"companies, a lot of companies"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":885.28,"endTime":888.4000000000001,"body":"give lip service to good"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":888.4000000000001,"endTime":891.01,"body":"writing, how important it is, et"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":888.4000000000001,"endTime":891.01,"body":"cetera, et cetera, et cetera."},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":891.0999999999999,"endTime":894.5799999999999,"body":"But what they don't do"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":891.0999999999999,"endTime":894.5799999999999,"body":"oftentimes is give their writers"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":894.6700000000001,"endTime":897.73,"body":"this time in the space, they"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":894.6700000000001,"endTime":897.73,"body":"need to really solve that"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":897.73,"endTime":901.45,"body":"writing problem. So it's, it's,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":897.73,"endTime":901.45,"body":"it's on both sides, if you will,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":901.45,"endTime":904.5699999999999,"body":"that we need to get it done. You"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":901.45,"endTime":904.5699999999999,"body":"need to produce this report this"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":904.5699999999999,"endTime":908.23,"body":"procrastination on the part of"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":904.5699999999999,"endTime":908.23,"body":"the writer. And oftentimes,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":908.23,"endTime":911.4100000000001,"body":"organizations don't simply don't"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":908.23,"endTime":911.4100000000001,"body":"give their writers the tools"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":911.4100000000001,"endTime":913.48,"body":"they need to be successful"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":911.4100000000001,"endTime":913.48,"body":"writers."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":914.4100000000001,"endTime":916.51,"body":"I had an English"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":914.4100000000001,"endTime":916.51,"body":"teacher in high school who said"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":916.51,"endTime":918.6400000000001,"body":"something I've always"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":916.51,"endTime":918.6400000000001,"body":"remembered, and I've applied it"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":918.6400000000001,"endTime":921.49,"body":"to design that I think is very"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":918.6400000000001,"endTime":921.49,"body":"true there as well. But what she"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":921.49,"endTime":925.8699999999999,"body":"said was that which was easy to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":921.49,"endTime":925.8699999999999,"body":"read was difficult to write."},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":925.9290000000001,"endTime":926.9490000000001,"body":"Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":927.4300000000001,"endTime":932.1700000000001,"body":"Yeah. Do you find"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":927.4300000000001,"endTime":932.1700000000001,"body":"Oh, I've heard from a few"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":932.1700000000001,"endTime":935.74,"body":"different sources that writing"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":932.1700000000001,"endTime":935.74,"body":"stimulates the brain. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":935.74,"endTime":938.9200000000001,"body":"the act of writing stimulates"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":935.74,"endTime":938.9200000000001,"body":"creative thought, and I've"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":938.9200000000001,"endTime":942.4000000000001,"body":"certainly found that to be true"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":938.9200000000001,"endTime":942.4000000000001,"body":"in my own life. Is there a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":942.4000000000001,"endTime":947.44,"body":"difference in terms have the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":942.4000000000001,"endTime":947.44,"body":"degree of creativity that gets"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":947.44,"endTime":951.5799999999999,"body":"generated between handwriting"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":947.44,"endTime":951.5799999999999,"body":"versus typing?"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":951.999,"endTime":955.1790000000001,"body":"That's a really"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":951.999,"endTime":955.1790000000001,"body":"interesting question, one that I"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":955.1790000000001,"endTime":958.1189999999999,"body":"don't have the answer to, I"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":955.1790000000001,"endTime":958.1189999999999,"body":"think a lot of it just depends"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":958.1489999999999,"endTime":961.9590000000001,"body":"on the individual him or herself"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":958.1489999999999,"endTime":961.9590000000001,"body":"and what works for them. There's"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":961.9590000000001,"endTime":965.3789999999999,"body":"a lot of writers, for instance,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":961.9590000000001,"endTime":965.3789999999999,"body":"who liked dictation. And just"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":965.3789999999999,"endTime":971.1089999999999,"body":"talking into a, you know, a"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":965.3789999999999,"endTime":971.1089999999999,"body":"recorder stimulates their, their"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":971.1089999999999,"endTime":975.519,"body":"creative pod. So, personally, I"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":971.1089999999999,"endTime":975.519,"body":"like the mic. My handwriting has"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":975.519,"endTime":979.539,"body":"gotten so forth that with the"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":975.519,"endTime":979.539,"body":"advent of the computer, I think"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":979.539,"endTime":981.9090000000001,"body":"if I hand wrote anything, no,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":979.539,"endTime":981.9090000000001,"body":"but I wouldn't even be able to"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":981.9090000000001,"endTime":985.8389999999999,"body":"read it. But a lot of it I"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":981.9090000000001,"endTime":985.8389999999999,"body":"think, just depends depends on"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":985.8389999999999,"endTime":989.1690000000001,"body":"the individual. But your point"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":985.8389999999999,"endTime":989.1690000000001,"body":"is a good one. I mean, the point"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":989.1690000000001,"endTime":993.969,"body":"is to write, right you should be"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":989.1690000000001,"endTime":993.969,"body":"writing in research versus this"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":993.969,"endTime":996.6990000000001,"body":"isn't something I just made up,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":993.969,"endTime":996.6990000000001,"body":"the research bears out that"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":996.6990000000001,"endTime":999.6389999999999,"body":"people should be writing a"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":996.6990000000001,"endTime":999.6389999999999,"body":"minimum of 15 minutes a day,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":999.6990000000001,"endTime":1003.269,"body":"something not an email. But"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":999.6990000000001,"endTime":1003.269,"body":"uninterrupted writing, even if"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1003.269,"endTime":1006.569,"body":"you just write about the green"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1003.269,"endTime":1006.569,"body":"leaves, or whatever it is, you"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1006.569,"endTime":1009.6590000000001,"body":"want to write about that you"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1006.569,"endTime":1009.6590000000001,"body":"should be doing that 15 minutes"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1009.6590000000001,"endTime":1012.6590000000001,"body":"is nothing most of us we waste"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1009.6590000000001,"endTime":1012.6590000000001,"body":"15 minutes a day on social"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1012.6590000000001,"endTime":1016.3489999999999,"body":"media, and a lot of social media"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1012.6590000000001,"endTime":1016.3489999999999,"body":"enemy or anything, I'm just"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1016.3489999999999,"endTime":1019.829,"body":"saying that the other thing that"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1016.3489999999999,"endTime":1019.829,"body":"that research tells us is that"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1019.829,"endTime":1024.329,"body":"we should be reading for a"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1019.829,"endTime":1024.329,"body":"minimum of 15 minutes a day. And"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1024.329,"endTime":1027.839,"body":"not the normal business work"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1024.329,"endTime":1027.839,"body":"stuff that we read, you know,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1027.869,"endTime":1033.059,"body":"but novels and newspaper"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1027.869,"endTime":1033.059,"body":"articles and magazine articles"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1033.059,"endTime":1036.869,"body":"and etc, etc, etc. Things that"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1033.059,"endTime":1036.869,"body":"may we may be unfamiliar with"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1036.869,"endTime":1041.159,"body":"reading. Because we pick up"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1036.869,"endTime":1041.159,"body":"nuances in language, we pick up"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1041.159,"endTime":1045.479,"body":"style, we pick up vocabulary, I"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1041.159,"endTime":1045.479,"body":"mean, you're talking about 30"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1045.479,"endTime":1049.259,"body":"minutes a day, going back to"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1045.479,"endTime":1049.259,"body":"your original point to enhance"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1049.259,"endTime":1053.369,"body":"your you enhance your career and"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1049.259,"endTime":1053.369,"body":"enhance your communication"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1053.369,"endTime":1054.839,"body":"skills. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1055.109,"endTime":1058.049,"body":"you know, another"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1055.109,"endTime":1058.049,"body":"thought that just came to me a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1058.049,"endTime":1061.169,"body":"little bit tangential, but I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1058.049,"endTime":1061.169,"body":"want to put it out there is that"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1061.439,"endTime":1067.409,"body":"writing is a great leveraged"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1061.439,"endTime":1067.409,"body":"tool. If you're speaking to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1067.409,"endTime":1070.229,"body":"someone, there are only so many"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1067.409,"endTime":1070.229,"body":"people that you can speak to,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1070.229,"endTime":1072.5990000000002,"body":"right, because you kind of have"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1070.229,"endTime":1072.5990000000002,"body":"to be in person. I mean, these"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1072.5990000000002,"endTime":1075.689,"body":"days, there's like teams, right"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1072.5990000000002,"endTime":1075.689,"body":"and things like that. But still"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1075.689,"endTime":1078.479,"body":"you're you're kind of one on"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1075.689,"endTime":1078.479,"body":"one, or maybe one to a few"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1078.479,"endTime":1081.929,"body":"something like that. versus"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1078.479,"endTime":1081.929,"body":"writing, if you can write"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1081.929,"endTime":1085.079,"body":"something that can that can be"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1081.929,"endTime":1085.079,"body":"disseminated to so many"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1085.079,"endTime":1087.779,"body":"different people, especially"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1085.079,"endTime":1087.779,"body":"with social media, right?"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1087.779,"endTime":1090.659,"body":"Putting articles out there and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1087.779,"endTime":1090.659,"body":"things like that a lot of people"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1090.659,"endTime":1094.079,"body":"can read what you've written."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1090.659,"endTime":1094.079,"body":"And it's, I think, a little bit"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1094.079,"endTime":1098.3990000000001,"body":"more difficult to reach as many"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1094.079,"endTime":1098.3990000000001,"body":"people simply by speaking, I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1098.3990000000001,"endTime":1100.829,"body":"suppose there are videos out"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1098.3990000000001,"endTime":1100.829,"body":"there as well. But still,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1101.13,"endTime":1103.41,"body":"you're 100% Why we"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1101.13,"endTime":1103.41,"body":"worked with an engineering firm."},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1103.41,"endTime":1106.5900000000001,"body":"This was a couple of years ago,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1103.41,"endTime":1106.5900000000001,"body":"when they were trying to write"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1106.5900000000001,"endTime":1109.23,"body":"you better placed on LinkedIn."},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1106.5900000000001,"endTime":1109.23,"body":"And so we work with them,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1109.23,"endTime":1112.71,"body":"helping them understand what"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1109.23,"endTime":1112.71,"body":"their value prop was, and hoping"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1112.71,"endTime":1115.02,"body":"that because they didn't veneer"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1112.71,"endTime":1115.02,"body":"for like, this does this, and"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1115.02,"endTime":1117.24,"body":"this does that. And this doesn't"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1115.02,"endTime":1117.24,"body":"count. And it's like, Oh, who"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1117.24,"endTime":1120.8400000000001,"body":"cares? Nobody, right? Because"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1117.24,"endTime":1120.8400000000001,"body":"what people care about, you"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1120.8400000000001,"endTime":1123.75,"body":"know, when you at the end of the"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1120.8400000000001,"endTime":1123.75,"body":"day is how documents affect"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1123.75,"endTime":1125.8500000000001,"body":"them, or how whatever it is,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1123.75,"endTime":1125.8500000000001,"body":"you're selling effects, and they"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1125.8500000000001,"endTime":1130.8,"body":"don't care how the you know, oh,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1125.8500000000001,"endTime":1130.8,"body":"was made in 20? You know, 2021?"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1130.8300000000002,"endTime":1135.54,"body":"Who cares? Nobody. So we really"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1130.8300000000002,"endTime":1135.54,"body":"kind of tried to help them."},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1135.66,"endTime":1139.65,"body":"Because people do business with"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1135.66,"endTime":1139.65,"body":"companies that they trust,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1139.65,"endTime":1144.69,"body":"right? And so people care about"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1139.65,"endTime":1144.69,"body":"how these affected them. And"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1144.69,"endTime":1147.03,"body":"that's one of the things we"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1144.69,"endTime":1147.03,"body":"talked about in our classes as"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1147.03,"endTime":1151.89,"body":"well. Write a document that"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1147.03,"endTime":1151.89,"body":"people understand how they're"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1151.89,"endTime":1157.17,"body":"going to be affected by it,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1151.89,"endTime":1157.17,"body":"right? Don't just give them a"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1157.17,"endTime":1161.16,"body":"litany of information was so"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1157.17,"endTime":1161.16,"body":"well, what am I supposed to do"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1161.16,"endTime":1167.43,"body":"with this information? Right? So"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1161.16,"endTime":1167.43,"body":"a good a good writer. I'd say I"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1167.43,"endTime":1170.19,"body":"use the word manipulate, and I"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1167.43,"endTime":1170.19,"body":"use it in the best possible"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1170.19,"endTime":1173.7,"body":"sense. I don't use it as being"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1170.19,"endTime":1173.7,"body":"unethical, but a good writer"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1173.7,"endTime":1177.3300000000002,"body":"manipulates the reader to take"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1173.7,"endTime":1177.3300000000002,"body":"the journey with them. And to"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1177.3300000000002,"endTime":1181.38,"body":"get to the conclusion that the"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1177.3300000000002,"endTime":1181.38,"body":"writer wants them to get to you"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1181.38,"endTime":1185.01,"body":"don't want to read or to come to"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1181.38,"endTime":1185.01,"body":"a conclusion that is not the one"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1185.01,"endTime":1189.15,"body":"that you wanted him or her to"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1185.01,"endTime":1189.15,"body":"get to. So it's it's it's very"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1189.15,"endTime":1196.17,"body":"strategic and it's it's mind"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1189.15,"endTime":1196.17,"body":"blowing to me that strategy, is"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1196.17,"endTime":1198.3600000000001,"body":"it really taught along with"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1196.17,"endTime":1198.3600000000001,"body":"thriving, it's called like,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1198.3600000000001,"endTime":1201.06,"body":"well, here's here's how to write"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1198.3600000000001,"endTime":1201.06,"body":"and here's grammar, here's"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1201.06,"endTime":1204.42,"body":"language, and this is you know,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1201.06,"endTime":1204.42,"body":"but you know, the, the"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1204.42,"endTime":1209.28,"body":"underlying principles of good"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1204.42,"endTime":1209.28,"body":"communication, like strategy are"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1209.28,"endTime":1210.81,"body":"very rarely discussed."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1211.17,"endTime":1215.3400000000001,"body":"Yeah, right. Well,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1211.17,"endTime":1215.3400000000001,"body":"one of the areas that you work"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1215.3400000000001,"endTime":1220.44,"body":"in is teaching folks how to do"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1215.3400000000001,"endTime":1220.44,"body":"effective presentations. What"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1220.44,"endTime":1224.19,"body":"are a few common mistakes that"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1220.44,"endTime":1224.19,"body":"you see engineers making when"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1224.46,"endTime":1225.8700000000001,"body":"making presentations?"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1227.1000000000001,"endTime":1230.31,"body":"reading off the"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1227.1000000000001,"endTime":1230.31,"body":"slide was number one, get"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1230.309,"endTime":1231.6290000000001,"body":"rid of the slides."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1230.309,"endTime":1231.6290000000001,"body":"That's bad."},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1233.039,"endTime":1235.679,"body":"Well, you can, but"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1233.039,"endTime":1235.679,"body":"people don't like it very much."},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1235.979,"endTime":1238.709,"body":"When I sit there, I don't know"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1235.979,"endTime":1238.709,"body":"if you've seen those his guy on"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1238.709,"endTime":1240.809,"body":"YouTube and I can't remember his"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1238.709,"endTime":1240.809,"body":"name, but it's called avoiding"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1240.809,"endTime":1244.199,"body":"death by PowerPoint, but he is a"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1240.809,"endTime":1244.199,"body":"neuroscientist, you I'll send"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1244.199,"endTime":1247.409,"body":"you the link, but it's wonderful"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1244.199,"endTime":1247.409,"body":"to watch. But he's the talks. He"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1247.409,"endTime":1250.1090000000002,"body":"says, you know, people, I don't"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1247.409,"endTime":1250.1090000000002,"body":"want to watch them dead whose"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1250.1090000000002,"endTime":1252.239,"body":"death by PowerPoint, and then"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1250.1090000000002,"endTime":1252.239,"body":"they go into their office and"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1252.239,"endTime":1255.779,"body":"they do exactly the same thing."},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1252.239,"endTime":1255.779,"body":"Well, you get to do with me. So"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1255.779,"endTime":1260.429,"body":"it's really interesting. So"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1255.779,"endTime":1260.429,"body":"really, but I paid you a bigger"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1260.429,"endTime":1264.5990000000002,"body":"problem than that is that people"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1260.429,"endTime":1264.5990000000002,"body":"just cram their slides full of"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1264.5990000000002,"endTime":1268.499,"body":"information. I mean, they're"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1264.5990000000002,"endTime":1268.499,"body":"full. We work with the client a"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1268.499,"endTime":1273.749,"body":"couple of couple of months ago,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1268.499,"endTime":1273.749,"body":"in sales in their flies, and"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1273.749,"endTime":1275.999,"body":"they they're taking the slides,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1273.749,"endTime":1275.999,"body":"and they're presenting the"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1275.999,"endTime":1279.479,"body":"product, you know, sales and how"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1275.999,"endTime":1279.479,"body":"much the what's grown, you know,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1279.479,"endTime":1283.289,"body":"blah, blah, blah. And they take"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1279.479,"endTime":1283.289,"body":"the same information. And they"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1283.289,"endTime":1287.519,"body":"present it three different ways"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1283.289,"endTime":1287.519,"body":"on the same slide. I mean, I"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1287.519,"endTime":1292.919,"body":"might, what is that? I mean, you"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1287.519,"endTime":1292.919,"body":"know, a busy a busy owner, or"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1292.949,"endTime":1295.679,"body":"whomever it is, is it well, I"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1292.949,"endTime":1295.679,"body":"don't know, which one of these"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1295.679,"endTime":1299.549,"body":"three things should I pick? Up"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1295.679,"endTime":1299.549,"body":"the information? Yes. Very"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1299.549,"endTime":1304.8590000000002,"body":"confusing. And so that I think"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1299.549,"endTime":1304.8590000000002,"body":"is, is one of the one of the"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1304.8890000000001,"endTime":1309.299,"body":"worst is just it's PowerPoint."},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1304.8890000000001,"endTime":1309.299,"body":"It's not power pros. Right. So."},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1310.259,"endTime":1312.1190000000001,"body":"And I came up with that all by"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1310.259,"endTime":1312.1190000000001,"body":"myself."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1312.72,"endTime":1316.41,"body":"Clever. Yeah. Love"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1312.72,"endTime":1316.41,"body":"it. Yeah. But I think"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1316.41,"endTime":1319.56,"body":"those are the two of"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1316.41,"endTime":1319.56,"body":"the two of the biggest things,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1319.56,"endTime":1323.01,"body":"and then people get nervous."},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1319.56,"endTime":1323.01,"body":"And, you know, a lot of times,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1323.01,"endTime":1325.56,"body":"you're better off just not tap"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1323.01,"endTime":1325.56,"body":"PowerPoints at all, or just have"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1325.6200000000001,"endTime":1329.73,"body":"a few, you know, just very few,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1325.6200000000001,"endTime":1329.73,"body":"let's just succeed points, but"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1329.73,"endTime":1332.88,"body":"people are terrified. I think"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1329.73,"endTime":1332.88,"body":"oftentimes, I mean, they're,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1332.91,"endTime":1335.13,"body":"they are a security blanket,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1332.91,"endTime":1335.13,"body":"right, pal."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1335.91,"endTime":1337.95,"body":"But yeah, you can"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1335.91,"endTime":1337.95,"body":"just read it. That's easy. If I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1337.95,"endTime":1339.54,"body":"have to speak extemporaneously"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1339.5700000000002,"endTime":1342.99,"body":"Watch out. Exactly."},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1339.5700000000002,"endTime":1342.99,"body":"Yeah, that one."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1343.38,"endTime":1346.1100000000001,"body":"Well, how about"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1343.38,"endTime":1346.1100000000001,"body":"some things that that we should"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1346.1100000000001,"endTime":1349.17,"body":"be doing during presentations"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1346.1100000000001,"endTime":1349.17,"body":"that maybe not many of us are"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1349.17,"endTime":1349.5900000000001,"body":"doing?"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1349.95,"endTime":1354.39,"body":"Well, I think one of"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1349.95,"endTime":1354.39,"body":"the things she does practice, a"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1354.39,"endTime":1358.2,"body":"lot of folks don't write, but"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1354.39,"endTime":1358.2,"body":"they do just read off the slides"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1358.2,"endTime":1360.93,"body":"and then practice without your"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1358.2,"endTime":1360.93,"body":"slides. I mean, can you speak"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1360.93,"endTime":1364.3200000000002,"body":"intelligently about your topic?"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1360.93,"endTime":1364.3200000000002,"body":"Probably, you can. But"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1364.3200000000002,"endTime":1368.04,"body":"oftentimes, the slides are"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1364.3200000000002,"endTime":1368.04,"body":"actually a hindrance, because"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1368.04,"endTime":1370.95,"body":"you're relying on them, instead"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1368.04,"endTime":1370.95,"body":"of thinking about the natural"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1370.95,"endTime":1375.1200000000001,"body":"flow of a topic and how the how"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1370.95,"endTime":1375.1200000000001,"body":"topic about the topic leads from"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1375.1200000000001,"endTime":1379.77,"body":"one subject to another. Whereas"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1375.1200000000001,"endTime":1379.77,"body":"if, if you were talking with you"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1379.77,"endTime":1383.46,"body":"and I were talking, it would"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1379.77,"endTime":1383.46,"body":"probably be a totally different"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1383.46,"endTime":1386.8200000000002,"body":"presentation than having the"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1383.46,"endTime":1386.8200000000002,"body":"slides there that are this"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1386.8200000000002,"endTime":1390.27,"body":"constant reminder. We don't even"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1386.8200000000002,"endTime":1390.27,"body":"use slides when we teach"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1390.27,"endTime":1394.02,"body":"classes, because I find them to"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1390.27,"endTime":1394.02,"body":"be a tremendous hindrance. I"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1394.02,"endTime":1398.0700000000002,"body":"mean, if I can't talk about it,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1394.02,"endTime":1398.0700000000002,"body":"make my point without slides,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1398.0700000000002,"endTime":1402.3,"body":"then then what is the point? So"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1398.0700000000002,"endTime":1402.3,"body":"practicing is one thing and"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1402.48,"endTime":1406.56,"body":"being aware of alternate ways to"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1402.48,"endTime":1406.56,"body":"present the information."},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1407.3400000000001,"endTime":1410.88,"body":"understanding who your audience"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1407.3400000000001,"endTime":1410.88,"body":"is, that is tantamount, and I"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1410.88,"endTime":1414.66,"body":"don't mean to say no, I'm"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1410.88,"endTime":1414.66,"body":"speaking to people at such and"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1414.66,"endTime":1417.69,"body":"such a conference. Well, what do"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1414.66,"endTime":1417.69,"body":"you know about these people? I"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1417.69,"endTime":1419.5800000000002,"body":"mean, right? What are some"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1417.69,"endTime":1419.5800000000002,"body":"things that you would want to"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1419.5800000000002,"endTime":1422.8500000000001,"body":"know about them, maybe you want"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1419.5800000000002,"endTime":1422.8500000000001,"body":"to know that their attention"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1422.8500000000001,"endTime":1425.16,"body":"spans are short, okay, maybe you"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1422.8500000000001,"endTime":1425.16,"body":"want to know that they're"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1425.16,"endTime":1429.18,"body":"experts or non experts, or"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1425.16,"endTime":1429.18,"body":"whatever the case may be. And a"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1429.18,"endTime":1432.18,"body":"lot of folks, a lot of writers"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1429.18,"endTime":1432.18,"body":"and presenters never take the"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1432.18,"endTime":1435.15,"body":"time to do that. They just make"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1432.18,"endTime":1435.15,"body":"assumptions. And I'm not saying"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1435.27,"endTime":1439.14,"body":"you always know who you're"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1435.27,"endTime":1439.14,"body":"speaking to intimately. But if I"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1439.14,"endTime":1441.93,"body":"have a certain position, if I'm"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1439.14,"endTime":1441.93,"body":"a CEO, for instance, your sort"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1441.93,"endTime":1445.26,"body":"of assumptions I can make about"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1441.93,"endTime":1445.26,"body":"you, right? And then how do I"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1445.26,"endTime":1448.56,"body":"then cater my presentation for"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1445.26,"endTime":1448.56,"body":"that, and then just general"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1448.56,"endTime":1452.8500000000001,"body":"speaking, you know, speaking,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1448.56,"endTime":1452.8500000000001,"body":"skills, rushing, not taking"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1452.8500000000001,"endTime":1455.46,"body":"breaths, not using reflective"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1452.8500000000001,"endTime":1455.46,"body":"pausing. I mean, there's all"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1455.46,"endTime":1459.24,"body":"kinds of things that are"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1455.46,"endTime":1459.24,"body":"standing still like a stone, or"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1459.24,"endTime":1463.23,"body":"like a statue, you know, and"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1459.24,"endTime":1463.23,"body":"just not being engaging, are"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1463.23,"endTime":1466.68,"body":"some of the mistakes that a lot"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1463.23,"endTime":1466.68,"body":"of presenters make, not just"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1466.68,"endTime":1468.42,"body":"engineers, a lot of presenters."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1468.779,"endTime":1471.3590000000002,"body":"Wonderful, those"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1468.779,"endTime":1471.3590000000002,"body":"are super actionable tips. Thank"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1471.3590000000002,"endTime":1474.809,"body":"you for sharing all of that."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1471.3590000000002,"endTime":1474.809,"body":"Now. We're gonna get right back"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1474.809,"endTime":1479.249,"body":"to the questions in during a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1474.809,"endTime":1479.249,"body":"short break here. Pipeline"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1479.249,"endTime":1482.339,"body":"design and engineering is the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1479.249,"endTime":1482.339,"body":"sponsor of the being an engineer"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1482.339,"endTime":1487.319,"body":"podcast. And at pipeline, we"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1482.339,"endTime":1487.319,"body":"develop new processes, process"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1487.319,"endTime":1492.299,"body":"development, r\u0026d, could be a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1487.319,"endTime":1492.299,"body":"test, new test process or a new"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1492.299,"endTime":1495.809,"body":"inspection process or"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1492.299,"endTime":1495.809,"body":"manufacturing process. And then"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1495.959,"endTime":1499.8890000000001,"body":"we build custom equipment and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1495.959,"endTime":1499.8890000000001,"body":"automation around those"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1499.8890000000001,"endTime":1503.969,"body":"processes. So if you are in need"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1499.8890000000001,"endTime":1503.969,"body":"of having a new process"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1503.969,"endTime":1506.8490000000002,"body":"developed, and then having"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1503.969,"endTime":1506.8490000000002,"body":"custom equipment, fixtures"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1506.8490000000002,"endTime":1509.819,"body":"automation built around that"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1506.8490000000002,"endTime":1509.819,"body":"process, please reach out to us"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1509.819,"endTime":1513.929,"body":"at Pipeline, you can contact us"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1509.819,"endTime":1513.929,"body":"at Team pipeline.us is our"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1513.929,"endTime":1519.749,"body":"website, or send us an email at"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1513.929,"endTime":1519.749,"body":"info at Team pipeline.us. All"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1519.749,"endTime":1522.3890000000001,"body":"right back to the reason that"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1519.749,"endTime":1522.3890000000001,"body":"we're actually here today. Pam"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1522.3890000000001,"endTime":1525.689,"body":"Hurley, Pam outside her"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1522.3890000000001,"endTime":1525.689,"body":"presentations, for example, like"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1525.719,"endTime":1529.169,"body":"technical reports, or even"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1525.719,"endTime":1529.169,"body":"emails, what are some tips that"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1529.169,"endTime":1532.289,"body":"you can share about improving"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1529.169,"endTime":1532.289,"body":"our writing outside of the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1532.289,"endTime":1533.219,"body":"presentations,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1533.52,"endTime":1536.97,"body":"take the time to"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1533.52,"endTime":1536.97,"body":"plan in"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1537.0,"endTime":1537.81,"body":"80%"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1537.809,"endTime":1540.989,"body":"You say right or sad"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1537.809,"endTime":1540.989,"body":"80% Should you should be"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1540.989,"endTime":1543.659,"body":"planning there's all kinds of"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1540.989,"endTime":1543.659,"body":"things that are involved in that"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1543.689,"endTime":1547.229,"body":"out, but people just tend to"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1543.689,"endTime":1547.229,"body":"rush to, to write instead of"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1547.229,"endTime":1550.799,"body":"taking the time to really think"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1547.229,"endTime":1550.799,"body":"about, who are you writing for?"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1550.919,"endTime":1554.339,"body":"What do you want them to do?"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1550.919,"endTime":1554.339,"body":"Right? What's the outcome? I"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1554.339,"endTime":1558.179,"body":"always go back to. I don't know"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1554.339,"endTime":1558.179,"body":"if you're familiar with the"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1558.179,"endTime":1561.449,"body":"author, John Irving, he wrote A"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1558.179,"endTime":1561.449,"body":"Prayer for Owen Meany and the"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1561.449,"endTime":1565.919,"body":"world according to gar. But he"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1561.449,"endTime":1565.919,"body":"when he writes a novel, he"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1565.919,"endTime":1570.329,"body":"starts with the last sentence."},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1565.919,"endTime":1570.329,"body":"And that's a starting point. But"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1570.329,"endTime":1573.839,"body":"we don't do that we start from"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1570.329,"endTime":1573.839,"body":"the beginning and work our way"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1573.839,"endTime":1578.3690000000001,"body":"to the end. So anything, one of"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1573.839,"endTime":1578.3690000000001,"body":"the things that all writers can"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1578.3690000000001,"endTime":1582.179,"body":"do better is to start from the"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1578.3690000000001,"endTime":1582.179,"body":"end and reverse engineer the"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1582.179,"endTime":1585.689,"body":"document, if I know where I'm"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1582.179,"endTime":1585.689,"body":"going, it's going to be easy for"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1585.689,"endTime":1587.819,"body":"me to get there, I'm going to go"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1585.689,"endTime":1587.819,"body":"see the big ball and go on a"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1587.819,"endTime":1590.729,"body":"Kansas, I'm not going to just"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1587.819,"endTime":1590.729,"body":"get in the car, start driving"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1590.729,"endTime":1593.039,"body":"around and hope I get that. But"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1590.729,"endTime":1593.039,"body":"that's what we do with writing,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1593.429,"endTime":1595.769,"body":"we start writing, we hope, we"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1593.429,"endTime":1595.769,"body":"hope that we get there, we"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1595.769,"endTime":1598.979,"body":"oftentimes don't even know what"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1595.769,"endTime":1598.979,"body":"we're trying to accomplish, that"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1598.979,"endTime":1602.219,"body":"if I know what I'm trying to"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1598.979,"endTime":1602.219,"body":"accomplish, then that"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1602.219,"endTime":1605.669,"body":"necessarily would limit the kind"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1602.219,"endTime":1605.669,"body":"of the amount of information"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1605.669,"endTime":1610.709,"body":"like that I can include. So we"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1605.669,"endTime":1610.709,"body":"always encourage our writers to"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1610.709,"endTime":1614.969,"body":"start with the start, start with"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1610.709,"endTime":1614.969,"body":"the end. And reverse engineer."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1615.299,"endTime":1618.569,"body":"That's terrific."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1615.299,"endTime":1618.569,"body":"I'm, we started a program called"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1618.569,"endTime":1623.429,"body":"CAD club at pipeline where we"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1618.569,"endTime":1623.429,"body":"open our doors deciding, it"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1623.459,"endTime":1627.059,"body":"actually is super cool. Pam,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1623.459,"endTime":1627.059,"body":"thank you very much, you would"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1627.059,"endTime":1633.089,"body":"be blown away if you did cat"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1627.059,"endTime":1633.089,"body":"club. Now we opened our doors"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1633.089,"endTime":1636.3590000000002,"body":"once a week to kids in the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1633.089,"endTime":1636.3590000000002,"body":"community and teach them CAD and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1636.3590000000002,"endTime":1638.969,"body":"engineering skill law that"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1636.3590000000002,"endTime":1638.969,"body":"really the purpose is to help"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1638.969,"endTime":1641.579,"body":"these kids see what healthy"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1638.969,"endTime":1641.579,"body":"adult behavior looks like. Now,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1641.579,"endTime":1644.939,"body":"some people argue my behavior is"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1641.579,"endTime":1644.939,"body":"neither healthy or successful."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1644.939,"endTime":1647.939,"body":"But nevertheless, we have other"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1644.939,"endTime":1647.939,"body":"people here to demonstrate that"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1647.939,"endTime":1652.1390000000001,"body":"that behavior. And anyway, I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1647.939,"endTime":1652.1390000000001,"body":"bring this up because I am"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1652.1390000000001,"endTime":1655.679,"body":"putting together the a new set"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1652.1390000000001,"endTime":1655.679,"body":"of curriculum for the next term"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1655.709,"endTime":1659.8790000000001,"body":"of caddy club. And as I was"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1655.709,"endTime":1659.8790000000001,"body":"writing down some things I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1659.8790000000001,"endTime":1661.6490000000001,"body":"thought, you know, I don't feel"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1659.8790000000001,"endTime":1661.6490000000001,"body":"like I have really great"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1661.6490000000001,"endTime":1666.029,"body":"direction here. So I kind of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1661.6490000000001,"endTime":1666.029,"body":"stopped and took a step back and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1666.029,"endTime":1669.1490000000001,"body":"looked high level. And so at the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1666.029,"endTime":1669.1490000000001,"body":"end of this class, what do I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1669.1490000000001,"endTime":1671.759,"body":"want these kids to walk away"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1669.1490000000001,"endTime":1671.759,"body":"with? And I wrote down what I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1671.759,"endTime":1673.8890000000001,"body":"want, I want them to know this."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1671.759,"endTime":1673.8890000000001,"body":"And I want them to know this."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1673.8890000000001,"endTime":1676.529,"body":"And I want them to know that. So"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1673.8890000000001,"endTime":1676.529,"body":"that was my last sentence."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1676.529,"endTime":1679.289,"body":"basically write effectively."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1676.529,"endTime":1679.289,"body":"These are the things I want the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1679.289,"endTime":1683.189,"body":"kids to walk away with at the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1679.289,"endTime":1683.189,"body":"end. And once I had the end in"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1683.189,"endTime":1685.529,"body":"mind, then it was a lot easier"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1683.189,"endTime":1685.529,"body":"to go back and say, Okay, what"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1685.529,"endTime":1687.929,"body":"is week one look like? What is"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1685.529,"endTime":1687.929,"body":"the week to look like? So"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1688.049,"endTime":1691.319,"body":"anyway, I really appreciate what"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1688.049,"endTime":1691.319,"body":"you were just saying and agree"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1691.439,"endTime":1693.659,"body":"100% with it that that makes a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1691.439,"endTime":1693.659,"body":"lot of sense."},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1694.2,"endTime":1698.1000000000001,"body":"Yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1694.2,"endTime":1698.1000000000001,"body":"And thank you for doing that for"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1698.1000000000001,"endTime":1699.1200000000001,"body":"kids. That's awesome."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1700.3200000000002,"endTime":1703.23,"body":"It's, it's been"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1700.3200000000002,"endTime":1703.23,"body":"amazing. We we've had a great"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1703.23,"endTime":1706.23,"body":"time, we finished the first term"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1703.23,"endTime":1706.23,"body":"last month, and we're starting"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1706.23,"endTime":1708.69,"body":"the second term next month, and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1706.23,"endTime":1708.69,"body":"it's picking up steam. We've got"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1708.69,"endTime":1713.7,"body":"some excellent partners here in"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1708.69,"endTime":1713.7,"body":"Phoenix, who different schools,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1713.7,"endTime":1717.03,"body":"public schools that we're"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1713.7,"endTime":1717.03,"body":"working with, anyway. It's a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1717.03,"endTime":1720.6000000000001,"body":"great, it's a great little"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1717.03,"endTime":1720.6000000000001,"body":"program. Just something else I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1720.6000000000001,"endTime":1723.54,"body":"was gonna bring up what was it?"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1720.6000000000001,"endTime":1723.54,"body":"It was there was CAD club we're"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1723.54,"endTime":1727.2,"body":"talking about and beginning with"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1723.54,"endTime":1727.2,"body":"the end in mind, it'll come to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1727.2,"endTime":1732.3600000000001,"body":"me. Anyway, another area that"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1727.2,"endTime":1732.3600000000001,"body":"engineers are often called upon"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1732.3600000000001,"endTime":1735.1200000000001,"body":"to help with writing is is"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1732.3600000000001,"endTime":1735.1200000000001,"body":"creating proposals, right, this"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1735.54,"endTime":1737.76,"body":"customer might want a new"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1735.54,"endTime":1737.76,"body":"project, we have to write a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1737.76,"endTime":1741.18,"body":"proposal for it. This might be"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1737.76,"endTime":1741.18,"body":"some of the same answers. But"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1741.75,"endTime":1745.47,"body":"what what are some tips that we"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1741.75,"endTime":1745.47,"body":"can use to write effective"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1745.47,"endTime":1749.97,"body":"proposals, you know, with with"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1745.47,"endTime":1749.97,"body":"the goal of closing more deals,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1750.0,"endTime":1750.6000000000001,"body":"ideally,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1751.049,"endTime":1756.029,"body":"focus on the client."},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1751.049,"endTime":1756.029,"body":"Nobody cares that you were"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1756.029,"endTime":1761.6090000000002,"body":"founded in 1827. Nobody cares. I"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1756.029,"endTime":1761.6090000000002,"body":"mean, you really have to focus"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1761.6090000000002,"endTime":1764.249,"body":"on you have to figure out what"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1761.6090000000002,"endTime":1764.249,"body":"the client wants, what is the"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1764.249,"endTime":1767.549,"body":"client looking for? People don't"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1764.249,"endTime":1767.549,"body":"care about all that other stuff."},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1767.789,"endTime":1771.5990000000002,"body":"Right? So one of the biggest,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1767.789,"endTime":1771.5990000000002,"body":"one of the biggest mistakes we"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1771.5990000000002,"endTime":1775.949,"body":"see in proposal is just this"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1771.5990000000002,"endTime":1775.949,"body":"litany of all the things that"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1775.949,"endTime":1779.459,"body":"we've done. And again, we're"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1775.949,"endTime":1779.459,"body":"grading good for us and all this"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1779.459,"endTime":1784.3490000000002,"body":"other kind of fun stuff, with no"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1779.459,"endTime":1784.3490000000002,"body":"connection to how all that fun"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1784.3490000000002,"endTime":1788.8490000000002,"body":"stuff relates to solving the"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1784.3490000000002,"endTime":1788.8490000000002,"body":"client's problem. Right, they"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1788.8490000000002,"endTime":1792.539,"body":"come to you because they have a"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1788.8490000000002,"endTime":1792.539,"body":"problem. How are you going to"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1792.539,"endTime":1798.3590000000002,"body":"help them solve the problem?"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1792.539,"endTime":1798.3590000000002,"body":"Right. And so, you know, again,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1798.3590000000002,"endTime":1802.559,"body":"engineers love details. Right?"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1798.3590000000002,"endTime":1802.559,"body":"Great, nothing wrong with"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1802.559,"endTime":1806.3990000000001,"body":"details. But if you're going to"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1802.559,"endTime":1806.3990000000001,"body":"include information, you have to"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1806.429,"endTime":1809.669,"body":"you have to make sure that that"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1806.429,"endTime":1809.669,"body":"information is somehow related"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1809.669,"endTime":1814.439,"body":"to solving the client's problem."},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1809.669,"endTime":1814.439,"body":"Right. And that's, that's one of"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1814.439,"endTime":1819.1490000000001,"body":"the biggest things we see in"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1814.439,"endTime":1819.1490000000001,"body":"most proposals is just this kind"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1819.1490000000001,"endTime":1822.839,"body":"of, well, I'm going to assume"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1819.1490000000001,"endTime":1822.839,"body":"that they understand that"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1822.839,"endTime":1826.559,"body":"because we built the Golden Gate"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1822.839,"endTime":1826.559,"body":"Bridge that they understand how"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1826.559,"endTime":1829.079,"body":"that's going to solve their"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1826.559,"endTime":1829.079,"body":"problem about trying to create a"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1829.079,"endTime":1832.469,"body":"footpath through their community"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1829.079,"endTime":1832.469,"body":"or whatever the case may be."},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1832.829,"endTime":1836.459,"body":"Right without making that"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1832.829,"endTime":1836.459,"body":"connection. One of the things"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1836.459,"endTime":1839.939,"body":"and I alluded to this a little"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1836.459,"endTime":1839.939,"body":"earlier, readers are on a"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1881.809,"endTime":1886.549,"body":"journey, and you're the Sherpa"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1881.809,"endTime":1886.549,"body":"and assurance sponsibility to"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1886.549,"endTime":1889.9089999999999,"body":"guide them on the journey to the"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1886.549,"endTime":1889.9089999999999,"body":"meadow or the mountain or"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1889.9089999999999,"endTime":1893.059,"body":"wherever it is, you're taking"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1889.9089999999999,"endTime":1893.059,"body":"them. And so you have to make"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1893.059,"endTime":1895.549,"body":"sure that everything works"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1893.059,"endTime":1895.549,"body":"together, they have enough food"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1895.549,"endTime":1898.009,"body":"and water and supplies and"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1895.549,"endTime":1898.009,"body":"everything to get to the top of"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1898.009,"endTime":1901.6989999999998,"body":"the mountain. And a lot of"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1898.009,"endTime":1901.6989999999998,"body":"times, we just simply don't do"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1901.6989999999998,"endTime":1905.899,"body":"that. It's just a lot of"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1901.6989999999998,"endTime":1905.899,"body":"assumptions. There's a lot of,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1906.589,"endTime":1910.129,"body":"they'll know what things mean,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1906.589,"endTime":1910.129,"body":"they'll know the connections,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1910.129,"endTime":1914.389,"body":"I'm trying to make a lot of"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1910.129,"endTime":1914.389,"body":"focus on us and what we do, and"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1914.389,"endTime":1917.869,"body":"very little focus on the client"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1914.389,"endTime":1917.869,"body":"and the clients knee."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1919.1,"endTime":1921.32,"body":"I think you're"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1919.1,"endTime":1921.32,"body":"spot on, it reminds me of a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1921.47,"endTime":1924.86,"body":"situation that we had here,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1921.47,"endTime":1924.86,"body":"situation is a strong word for"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1924.86,"endTime":1929.9299999999998,"body":"this. But I was copied on some"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1924.86,"endTime":1929.9299999999998,"body":"emails, and a customer of ours"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1930.1399999999999,"endTime":1934.04,"body":"reached out and said, Hey, I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1930.1399999999999,"endTime":1934.04,"body":"need some support on on this"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1934.07,"endTime":1939.9199999999998,"body":"item. And one of our engineers"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1934.07,"endTime":1939.9199999999998,"body":"responded and said, Okay, well,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1940.1299999999999,"endTime":1945.32,"body":"I, I need to remote into the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1940.1299999999999,"endTime":1945.32,"body":"system to provide that support,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1945.86,"endTime":1949.4299999999998,"body":"and an email. And I'm thinking,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1945.86,"endTime":1949.4299999999998,"body":"Okay, what the customer really"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1949.4299999999998,"endTime":1953.4199999999998,"body":"wants is the support, he doesn't"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1949.4299999999998,"endTime":1953.4199999999998,"body":"want to know what you need to do"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1953.45,"endTime":1956.9299999999998,"body":"to give him that support he"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1953.45,"endTime":1956.9299999999998,"body":"wants to support. So let's guide"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1956.9299999999998,"endTime":1959.99,"body":"him, you know, tell him exactly"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1956.9299999999998,"endTime":1959.99,"body":"what the next step is. And that"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1959.99,"endTime":1963.05,"body":"was the part that was missing"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1959.99,"endTime":1963.05,"body":"says, I need to remote into to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1963.05,"endTime":1965.69,"body":"do that support period and of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1963.05,"endTime":1965.69,"body":"email. Really what it should"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1965.69,"endTime":1969.44,"body":"have said is I need to remote in"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1965.69,"endTime":1969.44,"body":"to do that support. Are you free"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1969.44,"endTime":1972.98,"body":"this afternoon at 3pm? So that I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1969.44,"endTime":1972.98,"body":"can do that. Right? It's like"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1972.98,"endTime":1977.48,"body":"you said, guiding the person. If"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1972.98,"endTime":1977.48,"body":"we don't know that, if the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1977.57,"endTime":1980.27,"body":"recipient doesn't understand"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1977.57,"endTime":1980.27,"body":"very clearly what the next step"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1980.27,"endTime":1983.45,"body":"is, then we have not done our"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1980.27,"endTime":1983.45,"body":"jobs communicating, or our"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1983.45,"endTime":1986.12,"body":"engineering manager here."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1983.45,"endTime":1986.12,"body":"Michael loves to say the the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1986.12,"endTime":1989.12,"body":"meaning of our communication is"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1986.12,"endTime":1989.12,"body":"the response that we get."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1989.4199999999998,"endTime":1993.1399999999999,"body":"Absolutely. Yeah, we don't get"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1989.4199999999998,"endTime":1993.1399999999999,"body":"the response we want. It's"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1993.1699999999998,"endTime":1996.11,"body":"probably because our"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1993.1699999999998,"endTime":1996.11,"body":"communication was insufficient"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1996.1399999999999,"endTime":1996.44,"body":"for"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1996.469,"endTime":1998.779,"body":"some way. That's"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1996.469,"endTime":1998.779,"body":"exactly right. If readers don't"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1998.779,"endTime":2001.149,"body":"come to the correct conclusion,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":1998.779,"endTime":2001.149,"body":"and it's not on the reader, it's"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2001.149,"endTime":2003.609,"body":"on the rider. It's the always"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2001.149,"endTime":2003.609,"body":"the writers fault. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2004.6889999999999,"endTime":2009.1589999999999,"body":"report. Yeah, absolutely poor"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2004.6889999999999,"endTime":2009.1589999999999,"body":"design. And I, I get emails,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2009.1589999999999,"endTime":2011.649,"body":"because sometimes people are I'm"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2009.1589999999999,"endTime":2011.649,"body":"in a hurry, or whatever the case"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2011.649,"endTime":2016.1789999999999,"body":"may be, but emails are probably"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2011.649,"endTime":2016.1789999999999,"body":"as important if not more"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2016.1789999999999,"endTime":2019.149,"body":"important, than a report or"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2016.1789999999999,"endTime":2019.149,"body":"something like that, because"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2019.149,"endTime":2024.999,"body":"it's so immediate, right? And it"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2019.149,"endTime":2024.999,"body":"usually requires some action"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2025.539,"endTime":2029.829,"body":"pretty soon or immediately. So,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2025.539,"endTime":2029.829,"body":"but people just kind of treat"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2029.829,"endTime":2033.039,"body":"emails, like, I was just like,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2029.829,"endTime":2033.039,"body":"I'm just gonna do instead of"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2033.039,"endTime":2036.099,"body":"thinking about branding it like"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2033.039,"endTime":2036.099,"body":"Like anything else, especially"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2036.099,"endTime":2036.819,"body":"with a client."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2037.3,"endTime":2041.2,"body":"Yeah, I'm gonna go"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2037.3,"endTime":2041.2,"body":"back to proposals really quickly"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2041.2,"endTime":2043.9299999999998,"body":"here. I'll say this in the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2041.2,"endTime":2043.9299999999998,"body":"context of proposals, but"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2043.9299999999998,"endTime":2046.4199999999998,"body":"really, it's true with with any"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2043.9299999999998,"endTime":2046.4199999999998,"body":"kind of written communication."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2046.54,"endTime":2050.26,"body":"It's almost disrespectful when"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2046.54,"endTime":2050.26,"body":"we just dump all this"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2050.26,"endTime":2053.86,"body":"information in some of its"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2050.26,"endTime":2053.86,"body":"relevant some of its not. It's"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2053.86,"endTime":2057.64,"body":"almost like we're requiring the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2053.86,"endTime":2057.64,"body":"recipient to sift through all of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2057.64,"endTime":2061.54,"body":"this junk and figure out okay,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2057.64,"endTime":2061.54,"body":"what's the one paragraph that I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2061.54,"endTime":2064.6,"body":"really need to know here? Right?"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2061.54,"endTime":2064.6,"body":"In journalism, that's called"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2064.6,"endTime":2068.5,"body":"burying the lede, basically, how"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2064.6,"endTime":2068.5,"body":"often are we burying the lede as"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2068.5,"endTime":2072.4,"body":"we communicate with whoever it"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2068.5,"endTime":2072.4,"body":"is we're talking to? Lately, one"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2072.4,"endTime":2074.59,"body":"thing that I've been doing"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2072.4,"endTime":2074.59,"body":"because I fall victim to this"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2074.59,"endTime":2078.28,"body":"myself, I'm not perfect, I will"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2074.59,"endTime":2078.28,"body":"start writing something and I'll"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2078.28,"endTime":2081.58,"body":"ask myself, what is the most"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2078.28,"endTime":2081.58,"body":"important point that I want to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2081.58,"endTime":2085.15,"body":"get across in this, whether it's"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2081.58,"endTime":2085.15,"body":"an email or an article I'm"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2085.15,"endTime":2088.03,"body":"writing? Lately, I've been"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2085.15,"endTime":2088.03,"body":"writing a lot of articles. So"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2088.03,"endTime":2090.8799999999997,"body":"that's largely where this has"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2088.03,"endTime":2090.8799999999997,"body":"been. But what is the most"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2090.8799999999997,"endTime":2093.79,"body":"important thing that I want the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2090.8799999999997,"endTime":2093.79,"body":"reader to understand? When this"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2093.79,"endTime":2096.31,"body":"is done, and I'll write it down."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2093.79,"endTime":2096.31,"body":"It's usually just one or two"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2096.31,"endTime":2099.73,"body":"sentences, right? Very quick."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2096.31,"endTime":2099.73,"body":"And then as I'm writing, I can I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2099.73,"endTime":2102.8199999999997,"body":"can look back at that sentence"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2099.73,"endTime":2102.8199999999997,"body":"and say, okay, are the things"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2102.8199999999997,"endTime":2105.49,"body":"I'm reading supporting that? Or"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2102.8199999999997,"endTime":2105.49,"body":"are they going off in some"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2105.49,"endTime":2109.12,"body":"tangents and not not really"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2105.49,"endTime":2109.12,"body":"relevant to that? The lead the,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2109.2999999999997,"endTime":2112.1499999999996,"body":"the point of this whole thing,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2109.2999999999997,"endTime":2112.1499999999996,"body":"and that's been a helpful tool"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2112.1499999999996,"endTime":2115.3599999999997,"body":"for me to stay on track and make"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2112.1499999999996,"endTime":2115.3599999999997,"body":"sure that I'm producing content"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2115.3599999999997,"endTime":2117.8799999999997,"body":"that's relevant to the message"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2115.3599999999997,"endTime":2117.8799999999997,"body":"I'm trying to communicate."},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2118.419,"endTime":2119.799,"body":"Now? Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2118.419,"endTime":2119.799,"body":"absolutely. That's what we were"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2119.799,"endTime":2122.769,"body":"talking about before, start at"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2119.799,"endTime":2122.769,"body":"the start at the end. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2122.769,"endTime":2125.589,"body":"where, where, where do you want"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2122.769,"endTime":2125.589,"body":"your readers to go? What"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2125.589,"endTime":2128.919,"body":"conclusion do you want them to"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2125.589,"endTime":2128.919,"body":"draw? Yeah, right. Right. What"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2128.919,"endTime":2131.0789999999997,"body":"action? Is there an action you"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2128.919,"endTime":2131.0789999999997,"body":"want them to take? What is it?"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2131.109,"endTime":2135.369,"body":"Okay, great. Okay, I want them"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2131.109,"endTime":2135.369,"body":"to, you know, go get the garbage"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2135.369,"endTime":2138.129,"body":"can or whatever the case may be."},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2135.369,"endTime":2138.129,"body":"Okay, well, what do I need to"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2138.129,"endTime":2141.369,"body":"do? What did they need to be"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2138.129,"endTime":2141.369,"body":"able to complete that action"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2141.369,"endTime":2144.729,"body":"successfully? You know, without"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2141.369,"endTime":2144.729,"body":"making people work so hard. I"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2144.729,"endTime":2147.369,"body":"mean, goodness gracious. So many"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2144.729,"endTime":2147.369,"body":"of the documents you pick up"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2147.369,"endTime":2152.439,"body":"business like oh, and and what"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2147.369,"endTime":2152.439,"body":"what a lot of writers don't"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2152.439,"endTime":2155.259,"body":"understand is, you know, it's"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2152.439,"endTime":2155.259,"body":"this idea what I write and"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2155.259,"endTime":2158.499,"body":"they'll read it. Well, lameness"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2155.259,"endTime":2158.499,"body":"is sick necessarily, because if"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2158.499,"endTime":2162.339,"body":"they've gone 13 documents from"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2158.499,"endTime":2162.339,"body":"me, which had been pretty poor,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2162.459,"endTime":2165.339,"body":"when DoD when document number 14"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2162.459,"endTime":2165.339,"body":"comes along, they don't but"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2165.369,"endTime":2167.439,"body":"can't wait to read this. They've"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2165.369,"endTime":2167.439,"body":"had a lot of practice, they"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2167.439,"endTime":2170.139,"body":"should be better now. They're"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2167.439,"endTime":2170.139,"body":"making decisions, because"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2170.139,"endTime":2172.5389999999998,"body":"everybody's time constrained and"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2170.139,"endTime":2172.5389999999998,"body":"we're bombarded with"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2172.5389999999998,"endTime":2176.8289999999997,"body":"information. And so if not,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2172.5389999999998,"endTime":2176.8289999999997,"body":"they're not going to say they're"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2176.8289999999997,"endTime":2179.799,"body":"not going to give you the"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2176.8289999999997,"endTime":2179.799,"body":"benefit benefit of the doubt. I"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2179.799,"endTime":2182.8289999999997,"body":"mean, readers are probably less"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2179.799,"endTime":2182.8289999999997,"body":"forgiving now than they've ever"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2182.8289999999997,"endTime":2186.459,"body":"been, because they have so"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2182.8289999999997,"endTime":2186.459,"body":"there's so many The sources,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2186.5789999999997,"endTime":2190.8089999999997,"body":"there's so much information, it"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2186.5789999999997,"endTime":2190.8089999999997,"body":"just be thrown at them all the"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2190.8089999999997,"endTime":2193.569,"body":"time. So it's really important"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2190.8089999999997,"endTime":2193.569,"body":"that you're in a war for"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2193.569,"endTime":2196.299,"body":"eyeballs essentially. So it's"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2193.569,"endTime":2196.299,"body":"really important that you make"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2196.299,"endTime":2200.649,"body":"your documentation shine you"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2196.299,"endTime":2200.649,"body":"make it so that they want to"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2200.649,"endTime":2203.199,"body":"read it. Not that this all"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2200.649,"endTime":2203.199,"body":"happened this at the bottom of"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2203.199,"endTime":2204.729,"body":"the pile. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2205.029,"endTime":2207.759,"body":"And be specific. I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2205.029,"endTime":2207.759,"body":"think that's a really important"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2207.759,"endTime":2211.749,"body":"thing. Another example, I'll"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2207.759,"endTime":2211.749,"body":"share, I was copying on another"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2211.749,"endTime":2215.499,"body":"end, another email, right? This"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2211.749,"endTime":2215.499,"body":"one came from us to a customer"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2215.949,"endTime":2220.239,"body":"to one of our vendors, actually."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2215.949,"endTime":2220.239,"body":"And the email said, How is I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2220.269,"endTime":2223.479,"body":"can't remember exactly how it"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2220.269,"endTime":2223.479,"body":"was phrase, but how was the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2223.479,"endTime":2226.929,"body":"machining work coming is more or"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2223.479,"endTime":2226.929,"body":"less what it said, Now really,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2226.959,"endTime":2229.629,"body":"what we cared about was, when"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2226.959,"endTime":2229.629,"body":"are we going to get our parts?"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2229.659,"endTime":2233.109,"body":"That was the question that we"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2229.659,"endTime":2233.109,"body":"really were trying to ask, but"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2233.349,"endTime":2237.0389999999998,"body":"the words we used were, how is"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2233.349,"endTime":2237.0389999999998,"body":"the machining work coming along?"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2237.069,"endTime":2242.469,"body":"Right? So the vendor responded,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2237.069,"endTime":2242.469,"body":"and said, Yeah, this is fine."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2242.889,"endTime":2245.529,"body":"This, this is what we're working"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2242.889,"endTime":2245.529,"body":"on right now. And then we're"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2245.529,"endTime":2248.199,"body":"gonna work on that thing. And"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2245.529,"endTime":2248.199,"body":"you know, we're doing our best"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2248.199,"endTime":2252.7889999999998,"body":"thanks for checking in, I guess."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2248.199,"endTime":2252.7889999999998,"body":"And so, alright, well, let's"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2252.939,"endTime":2255.699,"body":"they responded to what was the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2252.939,"endTime":2255.699,"body":"meaning of your communication is"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2255.699,"endTime":2258.549,"body":"the response that you get,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2255.699,"endTime":2258.549,"body":"right. So a better way to word"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2258.549,"endTime":2261.0389999999998,"body":"that would have been? Hey,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2258.549,"endTime":2261.0389999999998,"body":"thanks so much for what you're"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2261.0389999999998,"endTime":2264.099,"body":"doing for us. We sure appreciate"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2261.0389999999998,"endTime":2264.099,"body":"your help. What day do you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2264.099,"endTime":2266.349,"body":"expect to have this all"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2264.099,"endTime":2266.349,"body":"delivered to us right back? That"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2266.349,"endTime":2269.469,"body":"would be the specific way to ask"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2266.349,"endTime":2269.469,"body":"that question. And by the way,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2269.649,"endTime":2271.8089999999997,"body":"I'm kind of picking on a couple"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2269.649,"endTime":2271.8089999999997,"body":"people on the team right now."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2271.8089999999997,"endTime":2274.749,"body":"But let me just put it out here"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2271.8089999999997,"endTime":2274.749,"body":"that they are far better"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2274.749,"endTime":2278.319,"body":"engineers that I am. I'm just so"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2274.749,"endTime":2278.319,"body":"so engineer at best on a good"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2278.319,"endTime":2281.529,"body":"day. They are way more talented"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2278.319,"endTime":2281.529,"body":"than I am. When it comes to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2281.529,"endTime":2283.719,"body":"engineering. I happen to be, I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2281.529,"endTime":2283.719,"body":"think fairly good at"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2283.719,"endTime":2285.609,"body":"communication. So I picked some"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2283.719,"endTime":2285.609,"body":"of these things out."},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2285.88,"endTime":2288.43,"body":"No, that's fine."},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2285.88,"endTime":2288.43,"body":"Yeah, specificity is key. It's"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2288.43,"endTime":2292.45,"body":"it is interesting. And I"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2288.43,"endTime":2292.45,"body":"suddenly we talked about this,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2292.48,"endTime":2295.24,"body":"you know, in our email writing"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2292.48,"endTime":2295.24,"body":"classes, that there's this"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2295.27,"endTime":2299.74,"body":"tendency among us for some"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2295.27,"endTime":2299.74,"body":"people to just be so it's so"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2299.74,"endTime":2305.62,"body":"wishy washy. And so they're"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2299.74,"endTime":2305.62,"body":"surprised when they don't get"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2305.62,"endTime":2309.61,"body":"the response they want. And then"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2305.62,"endTime":2309.61,"body":"it's like, well, now I'll say,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2309.61,"endTime":2311.65,"body":"Well, what have you thought"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2309.61,"endTime":2311.65,"body":"about doing it this way? And"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2311.65,"endTime":2315.19,"body":"then well, that's just really"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2311.65,"endTime":2315.19,"body":"that's just, it's not rude. It's"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2315.19,"endTime":2317.83,"body":"business. There's a big"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2315.19,"endTime":2317.83,"body":"difference between me asking you"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2317.83,"endTime":2322.2999999999997,"body":"for a favor. Would you please,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2317.83,"endTime":2322.2999999999997,"body":"you know, get the report done by"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2322.2999999999997,"endTime":2325.6,"body":"Friday at five o'clock versus"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2322.2999999999997,"endTime":2325.6,"body":"the report needs to be finished"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2325.6,"endTime":2330.49,"body":"by Friday at five o'clock. But"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2325.6,"endTime":2330.49,"body":"it's it's interesting, kind of,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2330.64,"endTime":2333.88,"body":"I don't want to come across as"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2330.64,"endTime":2333.88,"body":"rude. I don't want to Well, then"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2333.88,"endTime":2336.97,"body":"you're probably not gonna get"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2333.88,"endTime":2336.97,"body":"what you want to get. Right."},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2336.97,"endTime":2339.82,"body":"It's business. It's not it's not"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2336.97,"endTime":2339.82,"body":"a failure. It's just like people"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2339.82,"endTime":2346.39,"body":"beginning emails with a hope all"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2339.82,"endTime":2346.39,"body":"as well. Oh. Hey, how are you"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2346.39,"endTime":2350.11,"body":"doing? Oh, my God, I just hate"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2346.39,"endTime":2350.11,"body":"that. And people are like, well,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2350.11,"endTime":2352.99,"body":"you just, you're just the"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2350.11,"endTime":2352.99,"body":"announcer like, you're not being"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2352.99,"endTime":2357.04,"body":"nice, because everybody does it."},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2352.99,"endTime":2357.04,"body":"Everybody uses those words to"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2357.04,"endTime":2360.13,"body":"start a need muster. How are you"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2357.04,"endTime":2360.13,"body":"being nice? What you're doing is"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2360.13,"endTime":2363.52,"body":"you're saying, I'm just like all"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2360.13,"endTime":2363.52,"body":"the other sheet. That's what"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2363.52,"endTime":2367.87,"body":"you're doing? If you really want"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2363.52,"endTime":2367.87,"body":"to be nice, then think about is"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2367.87,"endTime":2371.38,"body":"there some kind of personal,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2367.87,"endTime":2371.38,"body":"something that you could start"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2371.38,"endTime":2374.62,"body":"the email with? Whatever. It's"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2371.38,"endTime":2374.62,"body":"just it's just interesting that"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2374.62,"endTime":2377.32,"body":"people just, well, you're right."},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2374.62,"endTime":2377.32,"body":"If you don't know you're not,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2377.32,"endTime":2378.04,"body":"you're not rude."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2379.029,"endTime":2381.879,"body":"I had a sales"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2379.029,"endTime":2381.879,"body":"coach who called those hate"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2381.939,"endTime":2387.009,"body":"emails, H A Y T stands for how"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2381.939,"endTime":2387.009,"body":"are you today? Right? Because so"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2387.009,"endTime":2390.009,"body":"many people started with how are"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2387.009,"endTime":2390.009,"body":"you today?"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2390.61,"endTime":2393.88,"body":"Fine. Well, my cat"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2390.61,"endTime":2393.88,"body":"died this morning. And then I"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2393.88,"endTime":2398.71,"body":"got stuck in crap and had a flat"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2393.88,"endTime":2398.71,"body":"tire. I hate life right now."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2398.98,"endTime":2403.09,"body":"How are you? No"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2398.98,"endTime":2403.09,"body":"hate emails, no emails, nothing"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2403.09,"endTime":2403.18,"body":"to"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2403.18,"endTime":2405.58,"body":"think about with"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2403.18,"endTime":2405.58,"body":"emails is the expectation is"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2405.58,"endTime":2408.22,"body":"that they're going to be brief"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2405.58,"endTime":2408.22,"body":"and to the point. So if I have"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2408.22,"endTime":2411.7,"body":"something I need you to do, I'm"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2408.22,"endTime":2411.7,"body":"not going to start and have a"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2411.7,"endTime":2417.07,"body":"whole paragraph of fluff. Before"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2411.7,"endTime":2417.07,"body":"I get to the ask. I respect you."},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2417.1,"endTime":2422.35,"body":"You're busy. Let me get to the"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2417.1,"endTime":2422.35,"body":"ask first. Right. And that's,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2422.59,"endTime":2425.47,"body":"that, that shows more respect"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2422.59,"endTime":2425.47,"body":"than having a paragraph full of"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2425.47,"endTime":2429.25,"body":"stuff that nobody cares about."},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2425.47,"endTime":2429.25,"body":"So I love it. Yeah, yeah."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2430.24,"endTime":2432.22,"body":"What are some"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2430.24,"endTime":2432.22,"body":"skills that we can use for for"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2432.22,"endTime":2435.07,"body":"in person presentations, where"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2432.22,"endTime":2435.07,"body":"like, maybe we're standing in"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2435.07,"endTime":2439.45,"body":"front of a group, you know, it"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2435.07,"endTime":2439.45,"body":"could be a presentation, but or"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2439.45,"endTime":2442.0,"body":"maybe it's like a live thing."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2439.45,"endTime":2442.0,"body":"Maybe we're standing up in front"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2442.0,"endTime":2444.79,"body":"in front of a large group doing"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2442.0,"endTime":2444.79,"body":"a q\u0026a session or something like"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2444.79,"endTime":2448.36,"body":"that. And he tips for for like,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2444.79,"endTime":2448.36,"body":"live in person communication?"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2448.63,"endTime":2450.61,"body":"Yeah, I think one of"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2448.63,"endTime":2450.61,"body":"the things that people need to"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2450.61,"endTime":2454.2999999999997,"body":"do is beat themselves. I think"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2450.61,"endTime":2454.2999999999997,"body":"too often when people are doing"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2454.2999999999997,"endTime":2457.42,"body":"live presentations they take on"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2454.2999999999997,"endTime":2457.42,"body":"this persona that really isn't"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2457.42,"endTime":2462.58,"body":"them. And so, you know, thinking"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2457.42,"endTime":2462.58,"body":"about being engaging, laughing,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2463.45,"endTime":2466.72,"body":"you know, just trying to relate,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2463.45,"endTime":2466.72,"body":"relate to people in a way that"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2466.72,"endTime":2469.6,"body":"they that they like you and want"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2466.72,"endTime":2469.6,"body":"to and want to speak with you. I"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2469.6,"endTime":2473.23,"body":"think when you when we are"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2469.6,"endTime":2473.23,"body":"standoffish and I know that you"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2473.23,"endTime":2476.29,"body":"know, even if you're shy, there"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2473.23,"endTime":2476.29,"body":"are techniques and strategies"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2476.29,"endTime":2479.95,"body":"that you can learn to be more"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2476.29,"endTime":2479.95,"body":"engaging and compelling. Even"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2479.95,"endTime":2484.27,"body":"tone of voice can change can"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2479.95,"endTime":2484.27,"body":"help smiley can help right so a"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2484.27,"endTime":2488.08,"body":"lot of us don't remember stands,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2484.27,"endTime":2488.08,"body":"we have a lot of these, a lot of"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2488.08,"endTime":2491.23,"body":"these strategies, a lot of a lot"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2488.08,"endTime":2491.23,"body":"of these things that we can do,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2491.47,"endTime":2496.0,"body":"just tone of voice smiling,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2491.47,"endTime":2496.0,"body":"being engaging icebreakers, that"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2496.0,"endTime":2499.81,"body":"kind of thing can help. You"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2496.0,"endTime":2499.81,"body":"know, and being and being human."},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2499.84,"endTime":2502.39,"body":"You know, if you don't know the"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2499.84,"endTime":2502.39,"body":"answer, I don't know the answer,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2502.39,"endTime":2504.91,"body":"but I'll find out for you or"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2502.39,"endTime":2504.91,"body":"whatever. Instead of feeling"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2504.91,"endTime":2507.7599999999998,"body":"like you're, you know, you'd"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2504.91,"endTime":2507.7599999999998,"body":"have to, you'd have to answer"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2507.7599999999998,"endTime":2510.73,"body":"every question even even if you"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2507.7599999999998,"endTime":2510.73,"body":"don't. And then of course, I"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2510.73,"endTime":2513.97,"body":"know, this never happens to"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2510.73,"endTime":2513.97,"body":"anybody else. But sometimes in"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2513.97,"endTime":2516.31,"body":"presentations, you'll have"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2513.97,"endTime":2516.31,"body":"people who will ask questions"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2516.31,"endTime":2520.09,"body":"that aren't related. I know"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2516.31,"endTime":2520.09,"body":"that's shocking. And then so"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2520.09,"endTime":2523.63,"body":"being able to, you know, to"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2520.09,"endTime":2523.63,"body":"handle those kinds of folks and"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2523.63,"endTime":2528.58,"body":"turn that into a question that"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2523.63,"endTime":2528.58,"body":"is related to whatever it is"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2528.58,"endTime":2532.12,"body":"that you're talking about. But a"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2528.58,"endTime":2532.12,"body":"lot of it is a lot of it really"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2532.12,"endTime":2536.0499999999997,"body":"is practice. I'm a huge fan of"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2532.12,"endTime":2536.0499999999997,"body":"Toastmasters. I don't know if he"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2536.0499999999997,"endTime":2539.92,"body":"was at Toastmasters, I'm a huge"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2536.0499999999997,"endTime":2539.92,"body":"fan. They are they do a"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2539.92,"endTime":2544.96,"body":"remarkable job. And a lot of"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2539.92,"endTime":2544.96,"body":"organizations bring bring their"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2545.0499999999997,"endTime":2548.14,"body":"honor, and if it's a club, or"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2545.0499999999997,"endTime":2548.14,"body":"whatever it is, but make it"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2548.14,"endTime":2551.98,"body":"their organization that reflects"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2548.14,"endTime":2551.98,"body":"just being human being being"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2551.98,"endTime":2552.7,"body":"relatable."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2553.72,"endTime":2555.37,"body":"Alright, just one"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2553.72,"endTime":2555.37,"body":"or two more, and then we'll"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2555.4,"endTime":2557.98,"body":"we'll wrap things up here."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2555.4,"endTime":2557.98,"body":"Hopefully, this next one is not"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2557.98,"endTime":2561.94,"body":"sacrilegious for you, but when"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2557.98,"endTime":2561.94,"body":"should we not write and just"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2562.0,"endTime":2564.73,"body":"pick up the phone and call"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2562.0,"endTime":2564.73,"body":"someone or have an in person"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2564.7599999999998,"endTime":2565.54,"body":"conversation,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2565.6,"endTime":2571.45,"body":"lots of times, I was"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2565.6,"endTime":2571.45,"body":"interviewing for a job at a"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2571.45,"endTime":2576.19,"body":"university, and went through the"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2571.45,"endTime":2576.19,"body":"process and everything I was"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2576.19,"endTime":2579.88,"body":"working at at the university as"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2576.19,"endTime":2579.88,"body":"an adjunct. And I didn't get the"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2579.88,"endTime":2583.9,"body":"job. And guess how they told me"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2579.88,"endTime":2583.9,"body":"even now,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2585.19,"endTime":2586.48,"body":"it's pretty common"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2585.19,"endTime":2586.48,"body":"these days."},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2586.72,"endTime":2588.94,"body":"That's pretty That's"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2586.72,"endTime":2588.94,"body":"cold. I mean, that that it was"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2588.94,"endTime":2592.7799999999997,"body":"just me, right? So it wasn't a"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2588.94,"endTime":2592.7799999999997,"body":"mass email. You know, it was"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2592.7799999999997,"endTime":2596.5299999999997,"body":"just me. I mean, and then I was"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2592.7799999999997,"endTime":2596.5299999999997,"body":"right down off the hall from the"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2596.5299999999997,"endTime":2600.16,"body":"person who should have told me."},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2596.5299999999997,"endTime":2600.16,"body":"So if it's something very"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2600.16,"endTime":2604.12,"body":"complicated, right, oftentimes,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2600.16,"endTime":2604.12,"body":"picking up the phone is better"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2604.12,"endTime":2608.83,"body":"than than an email, if it's"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2604.12,"endTime":2608.83,"body":"something that you don't want"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2608.83,"endTime":2612.88,"body":"others to particularly know"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2608.83,"endTime":2612.88,"body":"about, then picking up the phone"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2612.88,"endTime":2616.06,"body":"is a good, it's a good, it's a"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2612.88,"endTime":2616.06,"body":"good way. And it's a great way"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2616.06,"endTime":2619.0,"body":"to establish rapport. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2616.06,"endTime":2619.0,"body":"especially if somebody maybe"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2619.0,"endTime":2622.72,"body":"somebody's new, somebody's"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2619.0,"endTime":2622.72,"body":"confused, you know, picking up"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2622.72,"endTime":2625.09,"body":"the phone, you have to think"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2622.72,"endTime":2625.09,"body":"about the medium, what's the"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2625.09,"endTime":2628.09,"body":"medium, and a lot of people, you"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2625.09,"endTime":2628.09,"body":"know, rely on email or default"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2628.09,"endTime":2631.5099999999998,"body":"to email when email may or may"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2628.09,"endTime":2631.5099999999998,"body":"not be the best way to solve the"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2631.6,"endTime":2632.95,"body":"need or to solve the problem."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2633.13,"endTime":2636.67,"body":"Yeah, yeah, I like"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2633.13,"endTime":2636.67,"body":"your example there. The"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2637.09,"endTime":2640.18,"body":"individual who maybe should have"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2637.09,"endTime":2640.18,"body":"walked over to your office and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2640.18,"endTime":2646.81,"body":"given you the news, I will, in"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2640.18,"endTime":2646.81,"body":"situations where it's a delicate"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2646.93,"endTime":2650.86,"body":"topic, or maybe sensitive"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2646.93,"endTime":2650.86,"body":"information that's being shared,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2651.37,"endTime":2655.7799999999997,"body":"I actually like to write it out."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2651.37,"endTime":2655.7799999999997,"body":"First, I'm not going to send"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2655.7799999999997,"endTime":2659.83,"body":"that. But I'll write out what I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2655.7799999999997,"endTime":2659.83,"body":"want to say and the points that"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2659.83,"endTime":2665.5,"body":"I want to cover. Because as we"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2659.83,"endTime":2665.5,"body":"all know, tone and and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2665.7999999999997,"endTime":2670.84,"body":"gesticulations, and facial"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2665.7999999999997,"endTime":2670.84,"body":"expressions get lost in email,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2670.84,"endTime":2674.68,"body":"right. But I found it very"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2670.84,"endTime":2674.68,"body":"helpful to write it out"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2674.71,"endTime":2677.83,"body":"beforehand. So I kind of have a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2674.71,"endTime":2677.83,"body":"pretty good understanding of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2678.04,"endTime":2680.41,"body":"what I'm going to say how I'm"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2678.04,"endTime":2680.41,"body":"going to frame the conversation,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2680.65,"endTime":2684.07,"body":"and then I'll have the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2680.65,"endTime":2684.07,"body":"conversation in person. So that"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2684.07,"endTime":2686.86,"body":"you know, the tone and the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2684.07,"endTime":2686.86,"body":"emotion isn't lost in in just"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2686.86,"endTime":2689.29,"body":"words, but I also know that the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2686.86,"endTime":2689.29,"body":"words that I'm going to say, and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2689.29,"endTime":2693.91,"body":"that's been a good, kind of not"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2689.29,"endTime":2693.91,"body":"a compromise, but a good way of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2693.94,"endTime":2696.22,"body":"utilizing both mediums written"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2693.94,"endTime":2696.22,"body":"and spoken."},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2696.879,"endTime":2698.409,"body":"Well, I think you're"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2696.879,"endTime":2698.409,"body":"absolutely right. I mean, I"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2698.409,"endTime":2703.5389999999998,"body":"think sometimes when we don't"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2698.409,"endTime":2703.5389999999998,"body":"write things out, and we just"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2704.019,"endTime":2709.3289999999997,"body":"speak to that can be, that can"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2704.019,"endTime":2709.3289999999997,"body":"be disastrous, is probably too"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2709.3289999999997,"endTime":2712.929,"body":"strong a word, but I certainly"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2709.3289999999997,"endTime":2712.929,"body":"know that I, that I that I've"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2712.929,"endTime":2715.989,"body":"done that, and when I wish I"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2712.929,"endTime":2715.989,"body":"would have written it down. But"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2716.019,"endTime":2718.509,"body":"you know, even talk about you"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2716.019,"endTime":2718.509,"body":"know, with emails, write, write"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2718.509,"endTime":2720.879,"body":"the email, if you're angry or"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2718.509,"endTime":2720.879,"body":"whatever, write it out, write"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2720.879,"endTime":2724.8089999999997,"body":"it, but you don't have to send"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2720.879,"endTime":2724.8089999999997,"body":"it, you want to just, you know,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2724.8089999999997,"endTime":2729.189,"body":"let the brain kind of stew over."},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2724.8089999999997,"endTime":2729.189,"body":"Yeah, if it's the best way to"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2729.189,"endTime":2732.489,"body":"provide the information, but a"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2729.189,"endTime":2732.489,"body":"lot of times is just, it's just,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2732.669,"endTime":2735.699,"body":"you know, that the thing about"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2732.669,"endTime":2735.699,"body":"emails is there's this anonymity"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2735.699,"endTime":2741.249,"body":"about it that I don't, I'm not"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2735.699,"endTime":2741.249,"body":"particularly fond, when you you"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2741.249,"endTime":2745.0589999999997,"body":"know, your, your, your emailing"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2741.249,"endTime":2745.0589999999997,"body":"people with ping may be"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2745.0589999999997,"endTime":2748.899,"body":"unfamiliar, or you're, or you"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2745.0589999999997,"endTime":2748.899,"body":"assume people are a certain way"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2748.899,"endTime":2753.159,"body":"when they're not. Yeah, that,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2748.899,"endTime":2753.159,"body":"that kind of thing. So emails"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2753.159,"endTime":2758.739,"body":"can be great. But they can also"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2753.159,"endTime":2758.739,"body":"be very, very tricky. So I I"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2758.739,"endTime":2761.139,"body":"like your approach. I think it's"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2758.739,"endTime":2761.139,"body":"smart."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2762.52,"endTime":2764.7999999999997,"body":"That goes back to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2762.52,"endTime":2764.7999999999997,"body":"something we talked about"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2764.7999999999997,"endTime":2767.92,"body":"earlier on as well, where"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2764.7999999999997,"endTime":2767.92,"body":"sometimes the act of writing it"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2767.92,"endTime":2771.34,"body":"out, the most important part of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2767.92,"endTime":2771.34,"body":"that is it clarifies in your own"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2771.37,"endTime":2775.12,"body":"head, what the message actually"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2771.37,"endTime":2775.12,"body":"is right? Versus like you said,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2775.12,"endTime":2777.91,"body":"if you just go to someone and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2775.12,"endTime":2777.91,"body":"start talking, you might not get"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2777.91,"endTime":2780.19,"body":"the right message across because"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2777.91,"endTime":2780.19,"body":"you haven't really thought it"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2780.19,"endTime":2782.98,"body":"through. And just the act of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2780.19,"endTime":2782.98,"body":"writing it out really helps you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2782.98,"endTime":2785.89,"body":"to think through what you want"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2782.98,"endTime":2785.89,"body":"to say in clarify in your own"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2785.89,"endTime":2787.93,"body":"mind before you start talking"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2785.89,"endTime":2787.93,"body":"with someone else,"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2788.04,"endTime":2789.87,"body":"right, and how did"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2788.04,"endTime":2789.87,"body":"you get the 15 minutes of"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2789.87,"endTime":2792.12,"body":"writing that you should be"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2789.87,"endTime":2792.12,"body":"doing? So there you go."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2792.91,"endTime":2794.83,"body":"you go. Perfect."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2792.91,"endTime":2794.83,"body":"Perfect."},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2795.37,"endTime":2797.0499999999997,"body":"You kill two birds"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2795.37,"endTime":2797.0499999999997,"body":"with one stone."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2798.06,"endTime":2800.94,"body":"Pam, This has been"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2798.06,"endTime":2800.94,"body":"delightful. I love"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2800.97,"endTime":2804.57,"body":"communication. I think it's so"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2800.97,"endTime":2804.57,"body":"important. I like talking about"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2804.57,"endTime":2807.45,"body":"it. And thank you so much for"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2804.57,"endTime":2807.45,"body":"being on the show today very"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2807.45,"endTime":2810.81,"body":"much just wonderfully. Great."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2807.45,"endTime":2810.81,"body":"Well, how can people get in"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2810.81,"endTime":2811.41,"body":"touch with you?"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2811.92,"endTime":2814.38,"body":"Well, you can go to"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2811.92,"endTime":2814.38,"body":"our website, which is Hurley"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2815.0099999999998,"endTime":2820.5,"body":"right.com Hu, R la y w r i"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2815.0099999999998,"endTime":2820.5,"body":"t.com. You can email me directly"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2820.5,"endTime":2827.5499999999997,"body":"Pam at Hurley right.com. Our"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2820.5,"endTime":2827.5499999999997,"body":"phone number is 877-249-7483. Or"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2827.5499999999997,"endTime":2830.82,"body":"you can obviously I'm on"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2827.5499999999997,"endTime":2830.82,"body":"LinkedIn, we'd love to connect"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2830.82,"endTime":2835.32,"body":"with you. And again, this has"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2830.82,"endTime":2835.32,"body":"been a lot of fun. I really"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2835.32,"endTime":2839.1,"body":"appreciate your inviting us or"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2835.32,"endTime":2839.1,"body":"me. I'm out in the rural is the"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2839.1,"endTime":2841.98,"body":"rural rural we like I said at"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2839.1,"endTime":2841.98,"body":"the beginning of the"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2842.2799999999997,"endTime":2846.99,"body":"conversation. But thank you very"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2842.2799999999997,"endTime":2846.99,"body":"much. But yeah, connect with us"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2846.99,"endTime":2849.72,"body":"and happy to have a chat. We"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2846.99,"endTime":2849.72,"body":"have lots of resources on our"},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2849.72,"endTime":2852.06,"body":"website. So check this out."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2852.369,"endTime":2854.139,"body":"Awesome. Thank"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2852.369,"endTime":2854.139,"body":"you, Pam. Check them out,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2854.139,"endTime":2854.619,"body":"everyone."},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2854.68,"endTime":2856.39,"body":"Thank you very much."},{"speaker":"Pam Hurley","startTime":2854.68,"endTime":2856.39,"body":"I appreciate it."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2855.56,"endTime":2862.19,"body":"I'm Aaron Moncur,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2855.56,"endTime":2862.19,"body":"founder of pipeline design and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2862.19,"endTime":2865.19,"body":"engineering. If you liked what"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2862.19,"endTime":2865.19,"body":"you heard today, please share"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2865.19,"endTime":2868.73,"body":"the episode. To learn how your"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2865.19,"endTime":2868.73,"body":"team can leverage our team's"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2868.7599999999998,"endTime":2872.5099999999998,"body":"expertise developing turnkey"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2868.7599999999998,"endTime":2872.5099999999998,"body":"equipment, custom fixtures and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2872.54,"endTime":2876.5299999999997,"body":"automated machines and with"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2872.54,"endTime":2876.5299999999997,"body":"product design, visit us at"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2876.56,"endTime":2879.56,"body":"Teampipeline.us Thanks for"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2876.56,"endTime":2879.56,"body":"listening."}]}