{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":13.38,"endTime":15.93,"body":"Welcome to the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":13.38,"endTime":15.93,"body":"being an engineer podcast. Our"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":15.93,"endTime":19.59,"body":"guest today is Devin Campbell,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":15.93,"endTime":19.59,"body":"who has worked in many different"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":19.59,"endTime":23.4,"body":"engineering roles from design"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":19.59,"endTime":23.4,"body":"engineer to engineering manager"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":23.4,"endTime":26.88,"body":"to senior director, and is"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":23.4,"endTime":26.88,"body":"currently running his own"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":26.88,"endTime":32.04,"body":"consultancy called products."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":26.88,"endTime":32.04,"body":"That's PR o d, c t that I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":32.04,"endTime":36.9,"body":"pronounce it correctly. Okay,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":32.04,"endTime":36.9,"body":"perfect. So, welcome to the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":36.9,"endTime":39.54,"body":"podcast. Devin, thank you so"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":36.9,"endTime":39.54,"body":"much for spending some time with"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":39.54,"endTime":41.67,"body":"us. Yeah, I'm happy to be here"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":39.54,"endTime":41.67,"body":"and excited to talk with you."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":42.18,"endTime":51.0,"body":"First question, why No, you in"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":42.18,"endTime":51.0,"body":"product? There's no, this must"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":51.0,"endTime":54.21,"body":"be a you have a thing, right?"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":51.0,"endTime":54.21,"body":"That's how they teach grammar."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":54.21,"endTime":54.39,"body":"They're"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":54.839,"endTime":59.099,"body":"not you have a"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":54.839,"endTime":59.099,"body":"thing? You know that there's"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":59.099,"endTime":64.919,"body":"really no clever answer to the"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":59.099,"endTime":64.919,"body":"question. I really focus my"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":64.919,"endTime":70.259,"body":"advisory practice on helping"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":64.919,"endTime":70.259,"body":"people think through all the"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":70.259,"endTime":72.299,"body":"infrastructure that you need to"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":70.259,"endTime":72.299,"body":"be able to do product"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":72.299,"endTime":77.339,"body":"development really well. And"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":72.299,"endTime":77.339,"body":"it's all about product"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":77.339,"endTime":79.859,"body":"development. 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And I'm a big kayaker,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":86.429,"endTime":92.279,"body":"mountain biker, I kept looking"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":92.279,"endTime":98.399,"body":"for analogies with respect to"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":92.279,"endTime":98.399,"body":"those different sports and, and,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":98.429,"endTime":100.919,"body":"and things that you would use"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":98.429,"endTime":100.919,"body":"and equipment that you would use"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":100.919,"endTime":105.029,"body":"it has like an engineering tone"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":100.919,"endTime":105.029,"body":"to it helps kind of steer you in"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":105.029,"endTime":108.929,"body":"the right direction or you know,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":105.029,"endTime":108.929,"body":"things like rudders or, or, or"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":108.929,"endTime":113.279,"body":"aspects of a kayak. 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So I"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":124.169,"endTime":128.639,"body":"just I dropped the U out of it"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":128.729,"endTime":134.819,"body":"as PR o DCT. In product Dev is"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":128.729,"endTime":134.819,"body":"the website. So it kind of works"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":134.819,"endTime":137.009,"body":"and speaks really clearly to"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":134.819,"endTime":137.009,"body":"what it is that we do."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":137.22,"endTime":139.29,"body":"And it's"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":137.22,"endTime":139.29,"body":"memorable. 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That's the whole that's"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":151.59,"endTime":155.85,"body":"the whole point. So I haven't"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":155.85,"endTime":157.14,"body":"tried to do anything with it."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":157.47,"endTime":159.99,"body":"Fair enough. Fair"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":157.47,"endTime":159.99,"body":"enough. Okay. So speaking of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":159.99,"endTime":165.45,"body":"product dot Dev, the website is"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":159.99,"endTime":165.45,"body":"very minimal. 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I knew I"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":214.5,"endTime":218.13,"body":"needed to have some kind of"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":218.13,"endTime":224.16,"body":"landing page, do event do offer"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":218.13,"endTime":224.16,"body":"podcasts like this, or others,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":224.52,"endTime":227.37,"body":"the global medical device,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":224.52,"endTime":227.37,"body":"podcast or med tech, true"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":227.37,"endTime":231.45,"body":"quality stories, and others"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":227.37,"endTime":231.45,"body":"where people hear me, and they"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":231.45,"endTime":234.33,"body":"hear us talking about product,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":231.45,"endTime":234.33,"body":"and I needed to have some"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":234.33,"endTime":237.12,"body":"landing sites. 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So it's almost like"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":262.26,"endTime":265.05,"body":"you're you're not hurting for"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":262.26,"endTime":265.05,"body":"work. Certainly you're you're"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":265.05,"endTime":268.23,"body":"almost kind of tempering it with"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":265.05,"endTime":268.23,"body":"the the minimalist aspect there."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":268.26,"endTime":268.47,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":268.5,"endTime":271.26,"body":"I mean, it would"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":268.5,"endTime":271.26,"body":"help obviously, to help other"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":271.26,"endTime":275.94,"body":"people kind of understand what"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":271.26,"endTime":275.94,"body":"we do as a company. 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But for"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":292.38,"endTime":296.19,"body":"the most part, we haven't really"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":296.19,"endTime":299.46,"body":"needed to advance the website"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":296.19,"endTime":299.46,"body":"that much. And of course they"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":299.46,"endTime":303.75,"body":"say all of With a huge caveat"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":299.46,"endTime":303.75,"body":"that, you know, what would it"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":303.75,"endTime":308.16,"body":"hurt for me to go ahead and have"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":303.75,"endTime":308.16,"body":"us updated? Additionally, more,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":308.16,"endTime":311.7,"body":"you know, it could just drive"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":308.16,"endTime":311.7,"body":"additional business. We may do"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":311.7,"endTime":314.85,"body":"that in the in the near future,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":311.7,"endTime":314.85,"body":"but right. Right now, for the"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":314.85,"endTime":316.98,"body":"last two years, we haven't"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":314.85,"endTime":316.98,"body":"really needed to do that."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":317.55,"endTime":319.86,"body":"Well, simple is"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":317.55,"endTime":319.86,"body":"great, too. 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You"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":333.78,"endTime":337.62,"body":"also have the Devin Campbell"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":333.78,"endTime":337.62,"body":"comm website where it goes into"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":337.62,"endTime":340.83,"body":"a little bit more information"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":337.62,"endTime":340.83,"body":"about you yourself. One thing I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":340.83,"endTime":344.28,"body":"read there that was really"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":340.83,"endTime":344.28,"body":"interesting is I guess you're"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":344.31,"endTime":348.0,"body":"into photography, to some"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":344.31,"endTime":348.0,"body":"extent, is that accurate? 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I don't"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":393.6,"endTime":396.21,"body":"purposely go out looking for"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":393.6,"endTime":396.21,"body":"things I'll just, I'll be riding"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":396.21,"endTime":401.85,"body":"the subway. I'll see. I'll see"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":396.21,"endTime":401.85,"body":"something that speaks to me and"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":401.85,"endTime":406.02,"body":"I'll take a picture of it. Try"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":401.85,"endTime":406.02,"body":"to line it up as best I can. I"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":406.02,"endTime":412.47,"body":"do very minimal post processing."},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":406.02,"endTime":412.47,"body":"But I do have an affinity toward"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":412.56,"endTime":413.34,"body":"black and white."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":414.12,"endTime":416.76,"body":"Do you prefer to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":414.12,"endTime":416.76,"body":"use your phone for the most part"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":416.76,"endTime":420.09,"body":"or do you have some heavier gear"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":416.76,"endTime":420.09,"body":"that you take around with you on"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":420.09,"endTime":420.15,"body":"it?"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":420.18,"endTime":422.31,"body":"I have heavier"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":420.18,"endTime":422.31,"body":"gear but I don't typically take"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":422.31,"endTime":427.41,"body":"it around with me since it's"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":422.31,"endTime":427.41,"body":"always when the moment strikes"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":427.44,"endTime":430.89,"body":"and I see something like oh wow,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":427.44,"endTime":430.89,"body":"that's really that's that's"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":430.89,"endTime":434.37,"body":"cool. 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Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":448.56,"endTime":451.2,"body":"the best cameras"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":448.56,"endTime":451.2,"body":"the one you have at the moment"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":451.2,"endTime":456.57,"body":"right? I started a photography"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":451.2,"endTime":456.57,"body":"company many years ago with a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":456.57,"endTime":459.72,"body":"friend of mine and we actually"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":456.57,"endTime":459.72,"body":"ran it for four or five years"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":459.75,"endTime":463.56,"body":"and so I I am also a lover of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":459.75,"endTime":463.56,"body":"photography sounds like you're"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":463.56,"endTime":467.64,"body":"in into the canon gear what what"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":463.56,"endTime":467.64,"body":"Canon camera do you have? Oh, I"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":467.64,"endTime":471.06,"body":"have I have an"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":467.64,"endTime":471.06,"body":"old I was probably 10 years old."},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":471.36,"endTime":475.86,"body":"It's a was it EOS Rebel or"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":471.36,"endTime":475.86,"body":"something like that?"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":477.24,"endTime":479.22,"body":"Oh yeah, that's a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":477.24,"endTime":479.22,"body":"great one."},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":481.02,"endTime":484.11,"body":"I have a minimal"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":481.02,"endTime":484.11,"body":"set of lenses that I swap that I"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":484.14,"endTime":488.4,"body":"would swap in and out but like I"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":484.14,"endTime":488.4,"body":"said it's it's spending more"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":488.4,"endTime":495.78,"body":"time gathering dust than it does"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":488.4,"endTime":495.78,"body":"I mean the cameras in our phones"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":495.78,"endTime":500.82,"body":"are just I purposely why my"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":495.78,"endTime":500.82,"body":"phone only for the camera"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":500.82,"endTime":502.59,"body":"capabilities to be quite honest"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":502.86,"endTime":505.41,"body":"so I'll and what"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":502.86,"endTime":505.41,"body":"phone are you using using"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":505.41,"endTime":505.83,"body":"iPhones"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":505.83,"endTime":509.88,"body":"for long for"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":505.83,"endTime":509.88,"body":"quite a while but like when the"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":509.88,"endTime":513.27,"body":"seven first came out I got the"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":509.88,"endTime":513.27,"body":"big giant seven even though I"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":513.27,"endTime":517.02,"body":"hated carrying around this brick"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":513.27,"endTime":517.02,"body":"this HDTV against the side of my"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":517.02,"endTime":522.0,"body":"head I get a better camera and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":522.299,"endTime":524.999,"body":"in the software"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":522.299,"endTime":524.999,"body":"that they have to create the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":524.999,"endTime":528.569,"body":"bouquet the blurred background"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":524.999,"endTime":528.569,"body":"it's it's gorgeous they really"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":528.569,"endTime":529.349,"body":"have done a great job"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":529.38,"endTime":531.3,"body":"yeah, it does a"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":529.38,"endTime":531.3,"body":"nice job. Oh, I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":531.3,"endTime":533.37,"body":"had something I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":531.3,"endTime":533.37,"body":"was gonna say what was it? Oh,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":533.37,"endTime":536.4,"body":"it was the rebel I just had to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":533.37,"endTime":536.4,"body":"mention this that's where I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":536.4,"endTime":541.23,"body":"started as well with a rebel and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":536.4,"endTime":541.23,"body":"again just like yours it's it's"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":541.26,"endTime":544.8,"body":"over 10 years old at this point"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":541.26,"endTime":544.8,"body":"but with you know we're"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":544.8,"endTime":550.05,"body":"recording this during the whole"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":544.8,"endTime":550.05,"body":"quarantine period and so kids"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":550.05,"endTime":554.13,"body":"are home and my wife and I we"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":550.05,"endTime":554.13,"body":"took out the old rebel I don't"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":554.13,"endTime":558.15,"body":"think anyone has used it for"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":554.13,"endTime":558.15,"body":"probably, I don't know six or"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":558.15,"endTime":561.72,"body":"eight years and it's working"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":558.15,"endTime":561.72,"body":"like a champ the kids are are"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":561.75,"endTime":564.72,"body":"taking pictures and learning"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":561.75,"endTime":564.72,"body":"Photoshop and I mean I was"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":564.72,"endTime":567.66,"body":"really impressed with how it"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":564.72,"endTime":567.66,"body":"still works flawlessly."},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":567.81,"endTime":570.96,"body":"I like how much"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":567.81,"endTime":570.96,"body":"control you can get using you"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":570.96,"endTime":574.5,"body":"know a camera that's meant to be"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":570.96,"endTime":574.5,"body":"a camera not just a phone. Do"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":574.5,"endTime":574.65,"body":"you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":574.65,"endTime":578.01,"body":"think that part of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":574.65,"endTime":578.01,"body":"photography that appeals to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":578.01,"endTime":581.07,"body":"engineers is the technical"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":578.01,"endTime":581.07,"body":"aspect No, there's there's"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":581.28,"endTime":585.69,"body":"dialing in the lighting and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":581.28,"endTime":585.69,"body":"there's the aperture and the ISO"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":585.69,"endTime":589.38,"body":"and the frame rate and all that"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":585.69,"endTime":589.38,"body":"stuff. I would did the technical"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":589.38,"endTime":592.41,"body":"aspect appeal to you or was it"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":589.38,"endTime":592.41,"body":"really just the artistic side?"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":592.53,"endTime":597.21,"body":"Honestly, it was"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":592.53,"endTime":597.21,"body":"the artistic side. When I went"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":597.21,"endTime":600.42,"body":"to school, I got my bachelor's"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":597.21,"endTime":600.42,"body":"and master's both major Chemical"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":600.42,"endTime":606.78,"body":"Engineering. But I also took"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":600.42,"endTime":606.78,"body":"enough courses within the"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":606.81,"endTime":610.41,"body":"creative writing program to have"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":606.81,"endTime":610.41,"body":"a minor in creative writing. So"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":610.41,"endTime":617.22,"body":"there's always been this, this"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":610.41,"endTime":617.22,"body":"air of creativity balanced with"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":618.09,"endTime":621.72,"body":"the the strict technical nature"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":618.09,"endTime":621.72,"body":"of what we do professionally."},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":622.23,"endTime":626.67,"body":"And I think the two can blend"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":622.23,"endTime":626.67,"body":"really well. But in photography,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":626.67,"endTime":630.51,"body":"I like to use the creativity as"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":626.67,"endTime":630.51,"body":"a way to showcase the technical,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":630.87,"endTime":634.05,"body":"I'm not geeking out over the"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":630.87,"endTime":634.05,"body":"technical of the photography"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":634.05,"endTime":640.17,"body":"gear itself, I get more excited"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":634.05,"endTime":640.17,"body":"by taking a good look at the the"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":640.17,"endTime":642.93,"body":"gear or the valve or whatever it"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":640.17,"endTime":642.93,"body":"is that I'm finding out in"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":642.93,"endTime":646.8,"body":"nature, or out in just in the"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":642.93,"endTime":646.8,"body":"environment."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":691.48,"endTime":693.8800000000001,"body":"That's great."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":691.48,"endTime":693.8800000000001,"body":"That's great. I know, we're on a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":693.8800000000001,"endTime":697.1500000000001,"body":"podcast about engineering. So"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":693.8800000000001,"endTime":697.1500000000001,"body":"thanks for humoring me and no"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":697.1500000000001,"endTime":700.8699999999999,"body":"problem or fee for a little"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":697.1500000000001,"endTime":700.8699999999999,"body":"while. Alright, so let's dive"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":700.8699999999999,"endTime":705.55,"body":"into the engineering. You"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":700.8699999999999,"endTime":705.55,"body":"started out working at? What was"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":705.55,"endTime":709.8699999999999,"body":"it? Ventana? That was one of the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":705.55,"endTime":709.8699999999999,"body":"first Okay, and and pretty"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":709.8699999999999,"endTime":712.96,"body":"quickly kind of climbed the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":709.8699999999999,"endTime":712.96,"body":"ladder? And within I think it"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":712.96,"endTime":718.21,"body":"was about 10 years had gone from"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":712.96,"endTime":718.21,"body":"a design engineer to a director"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":718.27,"endTime":719.6199999999999,"body":"level? Is that accurate?"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":719.6489999999999,"endTime":724.8389999999999,"body":"Yeah. I would, I"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":719.6489999999999,"endTime":724.8389999999999,"body":"would layer in the additional"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":724.8389999999999,"endTime":731.499,"body":"perspective that I went out of"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":724.8389999999999,"endTime":731.499,"body":"my way to find engineering roles"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":731.559,"endTime":736.9590000000001,"body":"while in college. And throughout"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":731.559,"endTime":736.9590000000001,"body":"my bachelor's and my master's, I"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":736.9590000000001,"endTime":741.039,"body":"was working in engineering"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":736.9590000000001,"endTime":741.039,"body":"disciplines. Of course, I wasn't"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":741.039,"endTime":744.8789999999999,"body":"working as it as an actual"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":741.039,"endTime":744.8789999999999,"body":"engineer at that point. But I"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":744.8789999999999,"endTime":747.729,"body":"was fortunate enough, for"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":744.8789999999999,"endTime":747.729,"body":"example, during my"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":747.729,"endTime":753.3689999999999,"body":"undergraduate, to work at the"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":747.729,"endTime":753.3689999999999,"body":"suit observatory Mirror Lab, at"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":753.3689999999999,"endTime":757.509,"body":"the University of Arizona, where"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":753.3689999999999,"endTime":757.509,"body":"the world's largest telescope"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":757.509,"endTime":760.569,"body":"mirrors were cast and polished."},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":757.509,"endTime":760.569,"body":"And it's a great kind of"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":760.569,"endTime":766.8989999999999,"body":"engineering Wonderland. And I"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":760.569,"endTime":766.8989999999999,"body":"was fortunate enough to have a"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":766.8989999999999,"endTime":771.279,"body":"boss there who took an interest"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":766.8989999999999,"endTime":771.279,"body":"in kind of molding me as an"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":771.279,"endTime":773.4390000000001,"body":"engineer. It was okay, well,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":771.279,"endTime":773.4390000000001,"body":"what are you taking this"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":773.4390000000001,"endTime":778.1489999999999,"body":"semester, and I'm taking, maybe"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":773.4390000000001,"endTime":778.1489999999999,"body":"thermodynamics and computational"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":778.1790000000001,"endTime":780.819,"body":"fluid, you know, dynamics,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":778.1790000000001,"endTime":780.819,"body":"something like that. And so,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":780.819,"endTime":783.1590000000001,"body":"okay, great. Well, he took me to"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":780.819,"endTime":783.1590000000001,"body":"projects to work on that or in"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":783.1590000000001,"endTime":787.1189999999999,"body":"that space. So now I'm, maybe"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":783.1590000000001,"endTime":787.1189999999999,"body":"I'm taking an optics class, and"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":787.1189999999999,"endTime":789.6690000000001,"body":"he gave me some work, there's a"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":787.1189999999999,"endTime":789.6690000000001,"body":"lot of optics there, it gave me"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":789.6690000000001,"endTime":793.1189999999999,"body":"some worked in the optic space,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":789.6690000000001,"endTime":793.1189999999999,"body":"helping design in parameters and"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":793.1189999999999,"endTime":799.479,"body":"things like that. And using the"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":793.1189999999999,"endTime":799.479,"body":"tools back then it was earlier,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":799.479,"endTime":804.4290000000001,"body":"probably, that I was using. But"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":799.479,"endTime":804.4290000000001,"body":"it really kind of gave me an"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":804.4290000000001,"endTime":807.3989999999999,"body":"opportunity to get a feel for"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":804.4290000000001,"endTime":807.3989999999999,"body":"what it was like and to work"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":807.3989999999999,"endTime":811.719,"body":"with professional engineers. So"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":807.3989999999999,"endTime":811.719,"body":"that by the time I finished my"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":811.749,"endTime":815.979,"body":"bachelor's and master's and"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":811.749,"endTime":815.979,"body":"started working at fintona, I'd"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":815.979,"endTime":821.529,"body":"already had, let's see, five,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":815.979,"endTime":821.529,"body":"six years of kind of experience"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":821.529,"endTime":828.6990000000001,"body":"in that space. So it kind of"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":821.529,"endTime":828.6990000000001,"body":"gave me a big leg up on jumping"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":828.6990000000001,"endTime":831.549,"body":"into the this work environment"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":828.6990000000001,"endTime":831.549,"body":"and being able to make an"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":831.549,"endTime":835.809,"body":"immediate impact. And kind of"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":831.549,"endTime":835.809,"body":"understanding how you design"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":835.809,"endTime":838.809,"body":"things. And where I worked at"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":835.809,"endTime":838.809,"body":"the Mirror Lab, I not only"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":838.809,"endTime":841.1189999999999,"body":"designed it, but then I had to"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":838.809,"endTime":841.1189999999999,"body":"go down into the machine shop"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":841.1189999999999,"endTime":844.509,"body":"and learn how to machine it"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":841.1189999999999,"endTime":844.509,"body":"myself and how to program the"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":844.509,"endTime":848.1690000000001,"body":"CNCS and how to run them. And"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":844.509,"endTime":848.1690000000001,"body":"whether I'm running a bridge, a"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":848.1690000000001,"endTime":853.029,"body":"bridge port, or you know, a"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":848.1690000000001,"endTime":853.029,"body":"manual bill or lathe, it gave me"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":853.029,"endTime":857.079,"body":"that unique opportunity to kind"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":853.029,"endTime":857.079,"body":"of learn how to best design"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":857.079,"endTime":860.829,"body":"something for manufacturability"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":857.079,"endTime":860.829,"body":"because I had to go and"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":860.829,"endTime":863.9490000000001,"body":"manufacture it. So I learned,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":860.829,"endTime":863.9490000000001,"body":"you know what stupid things not"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":863.9490000000001,"endTime":870.819,"body":"to do. And I think that allowed"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":863.9490000000001,"endTime":870.819,"body":"me it was one of the factors"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":870.819,"endTime":876.789,"body":"that allowed me to perform so"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":870.819,"endTime":876.789,"body":"well and gain additional"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":876.8489999999999,"endTime":882.729,"body":"responsibility at such a"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":876.8489999999999,"endTime":882.729,"body":"nonlinear pace once I started"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":882.729,"endTime":883.059,"body":"working."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":884.8299999999999,"endTime":888.8499999999999,"body":"Okay, so what I'm"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":884.8299999999999,"endTime":888.8499999999999,"body":"hearing is one of if not the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":888.8499999999999,"endTime":893.3499999999999,"body":"biggest factor in allowing you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":888.8499999999999,"endTime":893.3499999999999,"body":"to advance so rapidly was the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":893.3499999999999,"endTime":896.8299999999999,"body":"fact that you already had some"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":893.3499999999999,"endTime":896.8299999999999,"body":"of this previous experience"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":896.8299999999999,"endTime":900.22,"body":"working part time when you were"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":896.8299999999999,"endTime":900.22,"body":"a student at a few different"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":900.22,"endTime":905.26,"body":"places. And also, you had"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":900.22,"endTime":905.26,"body":"experience working in a machine"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":905.26,"endTime":908.74,"body":"shop, maybe not like as a you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":905.26,"endTime":908.74,"body":"know, full time machinist"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":908.74,"endTime":911.3499999999999,"body":"apprentice or anything like"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":908.74,"endTime":911.3499999999999,"body":"that. But you you understood"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":911.53,"endTime":915.19,"body":"manufacturing to the point where"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":911.53,"endTime":915.19,"body":"you could you could design"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":915.19,"endTime":918.6700000000001,"body":"something with designed for"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":915.19,"endTime":918.6700000000001,"body":"manufacturing in mind."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":918.73,"endTime":925.6300000000001,"body":"Absolutely. Yeah. Okay. And and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":918.73,"endTime":925.6300000000001,"body":"was climbing the ladder to kind"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":925.6300000000001,"endTime":931.3,"body":"of that managerial or director"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":925.6300000000001,"endTime":931.3,"body":"level role. Was that always kind"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":931.3,"endTime":934.4200000000001,"body":"of part of the goal or did that"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":931.3,"endTime":934.4200000000001,"body":"just happen organically? Totally"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":934.4200000000001,"endTime":940.21,"body":"not part of the"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":934.4200000000001,"endTime":940.21,"body":"goal. So I think, let me answer"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":940.21,"endTime":944.5899999999999,"body":"that question, but I'll dive"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":940.21,"endTime":944.5899999999999,"body":"into the second aspect I think"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":944.5899999999999,"endTime":950.1099999999999,"body":"that allowed me to perform well"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":944.5899999999999,"endTime":950.1099999999999,"body":"and ultimately realize all the"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":950.1099999999999,"endTime":955.48,"body":"successes I've been fortunate"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":950.1099999999999,"endTime":955.48,"body":"enough to have. I was never"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":955.48,"endTime":963.31,"body":"satisfied as a design engineer,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":955.48,"endTime":963.31,"body":"just sit in my office and design"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":963.31,"endTime":966.97,"body":"something up in CAD, do some"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":963.31,"endTime":966.97,"body":"modeling, do some, as a true"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":966.97,"endTime":972.76,"body":"engineer should think through"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":966.97,"endTime":972.76,"body":"the aspects of the design. In a"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":972.76,"endTime":976.03,"body":"vacuum, I always wanted to"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":972.76,"endTime":976.03,"body":"understand who all of my"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":976.03,"endTime":981.1300000000001,"body":"downstream customers were. And"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":976.03,"endTime":981.1300000000001,"body":"when I say customers, I don't"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":981.1300000000001,"endTime":984.31,"body":"mean ultimately the person who"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":981.1300000000001,"endTime":984.31,"body":"is using or the person who's"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":984.31,"endTime":988.72,"body":"buying the product. But I mean,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":984.31,"endTime":988.72,"body":"everyone from the quality"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":988.72,"endTime":991.4200000000001,"body":"engineers have to review the"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":988.72,"endTime":991.4200000000001,"body":"documentation that I generate,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":991.8399999999999,"endTime":996.0999999999999,"body":"and approve it. The"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":991.8399999999999,"endTime":996.0999999999999,"body":"manufacturing engineers who have"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":996.0999999999999,"endTime":999.6099999999999,"body":"to help create the manufacturing"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":996.0999999999999,"endTime":999.6099999999999,"body":"lines to where the manufacturing"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":999.6099999999999,"endTime":1003.0899999999999,"body":"work instructions to help build"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":999.6099999999999,"endTime":1003.0899999999999,"body":"whatever it was that I came up"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1003.0899999999999,"endTime":1007.3499999999999,"body":"with, you have a lot of"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1003.0899999999999,"endTime":1007.3499999999999,"body":"responsibility as a design"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1007.3499999999999,"endTime":1012.03,"body":"engineer, very high upstream, to"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1007.3499999999999,"endTime":1012.03,"body":"make sure that what you're"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1012.03,"endTime":1016.4100000000001,"body":"designing and developing meets"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1012.03,"endTime":1016.4100000000001,"body":"the needs of a lot of different"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1016.4100000000001,"endTime":1021.06,"body":"key stakeholders. And I like"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1016.4100000000001,"endTime":1021.06,"body":"understanding that holistic"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1021.06,"endTime":1024.06,"body":"picture. So I would do things"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1021.06,"endTime":1024.06,"body":"when I was working at Ventana"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1024.06,"endTime":1027.96,"body":"like, you know, asked to go out"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1024.06,"endTime":1027.96,"body":"onto the manufacturing line. And"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1027.96,"endTime":1031.14,"body":"I don't want to stand over the"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1027.96,"endTime":1031.14,"body":"people building stuff with my"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1031.14,"endTime":1033.75,"body":"arms crossed and just watching"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1031.14,"endTime":1033.75,"body":"and shaking, you know, nodding"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1033.75,"endTime":1036.99,"body":"my head every wants to say, Oh,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1033.75,"endTime":1036.99,"body":"I like what they're doing. No, I"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1036.99,"endTime":1039.3,"body":"wanted to get trained the way"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1036.99,"endTime":1039.3,"body":"they got trained. I wanted to go"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1039.3,"endTime":1041.64,"body":"through the same programs, I"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1039.3,"endTime":1041.64,"body":"want to sit on the manufacturing"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1041.64,"endTime":1045.9,"body":"line for a few weeks, and learn"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1041.64,"endTime":1045.9,"body":"what it's like to be in that"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1045.9,"endTime":1049.83,"body":"space. I did the same thing to"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1045.9,"endTime":1049.83,"body":"understand what are the"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1049.86,"endTime":1054.6,"body":"ramifications and and what do"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1049.86,"endTime":1054.6,"body":"the field service engineers have"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1054.6,"endTime":1058.89,"body":"to deal with. So I asked because"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1054.6,"endTime":1058.89,"body":"we were fortunately everything"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1058.89,"endTime":1061.38,"body":"was in house where I was we"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1058.89,"endTime":1061.38,"body":"didn't outsource really"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1061.38,"endTime":1064.56,"body":"anything. So I had the"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1061.38,"endTime":1064.56,"body":"opportunity to say alright, I"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1064.56,"endTime":1068.25,"body":"want to go shadow a field"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1064.56,"endTime":1068.25,"body":"service engineer for two weeks."},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1068.52,"endTime":1071.4,"body":"And so they sent me it actually"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1068.52,"endTime":1071.4,"body":"turns out to be the East Coast"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1071.43,"endTime":1075.93,"body":"they sent me out to and I stayed"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1071.43,"endTime":1075.93,"body":"with a very senior engineer to"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1075.93,"endTime":1081.27,"body":"understand what their life was"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1075.93,"endTime":1081.27,"body":"like out here. And what kind of"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1081.27,"endTime":1085.1100000000001,"body":"decisions do I make in a way"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1081.27,"endTime":1085.1100000000001,"body":"upstream in the in the"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1085.1100000000001,"endTime":1089.8200000000002,"body":"development space, to allow them"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1085.1100000000001,"endTime":1089.8200000000002,"body":"you make their lives of a"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1089.8200000000002,"endTime":1094.2,"body":"nightmare, or make it really"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1089.8200000000002,"endTime":1094.2,"body":"easy for them, and took those"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1094.2,"endTime":1097.74,"body":"learnings take that brought it"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1094.2,"endTime":1097.74,"body":"back taught my team what I what"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1097.74,"endTime":1100.8600000000001,"body":"I learned out in the field, so"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1097.74,"endTime":1100.8600000000001,"body":"that we can all do a better job"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1100.8600000000001,"endTime":1105.24,"body":"to meet everyone's needs, not"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1100.8600000000001,"endTime":1105.24,"body":"just the end user. And I think"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1105.24,"endTime":1111.45,"body":"that holistic approach allowed"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1105.24,"endTime":1111.45,"body":"me to live in other people's"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1111.45,"endTime":1115.05,"body":"shoes, understand what it takes"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1111.45,"endTime":1115.05,"body":"to walk not just a mile, but"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1115.05,"endTime":1118.05,"body":"several miles in those shoes,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1115.05,"endTime":1118.05,"body":"and then be able to come back"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1118.05,"endTime":1122.0700000000002,"body":"and design a better shoe to"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1118.05,"endTime":1122.0700000000002,"body":"allow them to do that job"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1122.0700000000002,"endTime":1126.81,"body":"better. So that coupled with you"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1122.0700000000002,"endTime":1126.81,"body":"know, having a little bit of a"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1127.02,"endTime":1130.77,"body":"of a head start on understanding"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1127.02,"endTime":1130.77,"body":"what the environment would be"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1130.77,"endTime":1134.4,"body":"like, before I started there, I"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1130.77,"endTime":1134.4,"body":"think those two things coupled"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1134.4,"endTime":1139.38,"body":"really allowed me to progress"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1134.4,"endTime":1139.38,"body":"quickly. Now, I love being an"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1139.38,"endTime":1142.92,"body":"engineer. And you didn't you ask"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1139.38,"endTime":1142.92,"body":"someone to answer that question."},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1142.92,"endTime":1147.6000000000001,"body":"Now you asked about my ability"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1142.92,"endTime":1147.6000000000001,"body":"to whether it was organic, or it"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1147.6000000000001,"endTime":1149.0700000000002,"body":"was it was part of the plan."},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1150.539,"endTime":1153.8690000000001,"body":"I love being a mechanical"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1150.539,"endTime":1153.8690000000001,"body":"engineer, and my intent had been"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1153.8690000000001,"endTime":1158.159,"body":"the entire time. You know, I"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1153.8690000000001,"endTime":1158.159,"body":"really like doing what I do. I"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1158.159,"endTime":1161.039,"body":"like understanding the holistic"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1158.159,"endTime":1161.039,"body":"picture, I like coming up with"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1161.039,"endTime":1164.219,"body":"things in my in my head. I like"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1161.039,"endTime":1164.219,"body":"designing them, I like doing the"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1164.219,"endTime":1167.0990000000002,"body":"engineering analysis to make"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1164.219,"endTime":1167.0990000000002,"body":"sure that what I'm designing is"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1167.0990000000002,"endTime":1171.839,"body":"elegant, and clean and simple,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1167.0990000000002,"endTime":1171.839,"body":"but straightforward, easy to"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1171.839,"endTime":1177.419,"body":"use, and not too much material,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1171.839,"endTime":1177.419,"body":"but just enough material. I love"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1177.449,"endTime":1181.469,"body":"thinking through all of that"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1177.449,"endTime":1181.469,"body":"piece of it. And really, my"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1181.469,"endTime":1186.839,"body":"sense of self identity was of"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1181.469,"endTime":1186.839,"body":"that of a design engineer. And"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1187.919,"endTime":1190.709,"body":"it just so happened that because"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1187.919,"endTime":1190.709,"body":"I had done so much work to"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1190.709,"endTime":1195.959,"body":"understand the holistic picture"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1190.709,"endTime":1195.959,"body":"that the team, the management"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1195.959,"endTime":1200.3990000000001,"body":"team that I worked with, and I"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1195.959,"endTime":1200.3990000000001,"body":"had some amazing mentors and"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1200.429,"endTime":1207.509,"body":"and, and advisors and bosses in"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1200.429,"endTime":1207.509,"body":"that space. Saw that I could do"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1207.509,"endTime":1210.5990000000002,"body":"more and actually approached me"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1207.509,"endTime":1210.5990000000002,"body":"at one point said, Hey, Devin,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1210.5990000000002,"endTime":1213.3590000000002,"body":"we're gonna pull you up out of"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1210.5990000000002,"endTime":1213.3590000000002,"body":"engineering. And we want to put"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1213.3590000000002,"endTime":1216.6290000000001,"body":"you in these other roles where"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1213.3590000000002,"endTime":1216.6290000000001,"body":"you'll be in charge of"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1216.6290000000001,"endTime":1218.3990000000001,"body":"engineering, but you'll also"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1216.6290000000001,"endTime":1218.3990000000001,"body":"have a lot of other"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1218.3990000000001,"endTime":1222.719,"body":"responsibilities that aren't"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1218.3990000000001,"endTime":1222.719,"body":"just pure engineering. And I"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1223.319,"endTime":1226.229,"body":"when your company asked you to"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1223.319,"endTime":1226.229,"body":"do something you said, I've"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1226.229,"endTime":1228.5990000000002,"body":"always had philosophy like okay,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1226.229,"endTime":1228.5990000000002,"body":"yeah, well, I'll do it because"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1228.5990000000002,"endTime":1231.659,"body":"they've asked me to, but I"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1228.5990000000002,"endTime":1231.659,"body":"didn't like it. You know, I came"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1231.659,"endTime":1233.699,"body":"home and I was like, I really"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1231.659,"endTime":1233.699,"body":"don't like the way this is"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1233.699,"endTime":1238.709,"body":"going. This is gonna lead me"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1233.699,"endTime":1238.709,"body":"more as a manager or than mine"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1238.709,"endTime":1242.009,"body":"being a manager of engineers but"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1238.709,"endTime":1242.009,"body":"to be Director of Product"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1242.009,"endTime":1245.069,"body":"Development and be in charge of"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1242.009,"endTime":1245.069,"body":"all of it. Development and all"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1245.0990000000002,"endTime":1248.759,"body":"aspects of a design through"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1245.0990000000002,"endTime":1248.759,"body":"development and"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1248.759,"endTime":1252.089,"body":"commercialization and service"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1248.759,"endTime":1252.089,"body":"and support and everything else."},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1252.659,"endTime":1259.319,"body":"I was not excited about that."},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1252.659,"endTime":1259.319,"body":"But they had, they had faith,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1259.469,"endTime":1263.939,"body":"and they kind of taught me to"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1259.469,"endTime":1263.939,"body":"have some confidence in their"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1263.939,"endTime":1269.249,"body":"ability to see what I could do,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1263.939,"endTime":1269.249,"body":"and put me in that environment"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1269.249,"endTime":1271.589,"body":"and gave me the right support"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1269.249,"endTime":1271.589,"body":"that I need. And I ended up"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1271.589,"endTime":1274.739,"body":"finding as much as I've kind of"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1271.589,"endTime":1274.739,"body":"fought it tooth and nail, I"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1274.739,"endTime":1279.659,"body":"ended up finding out that I was"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1274.739,"endTime":1279.659,"body":"really good at it. And I think a"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1279.659,"endTime":1282.689,"body":"big piece of that had been"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1279.659,"endTime":1282.689,"body":"because I'm an engineer, and I"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1282.719,"endTime":1285.569,"body":"look at the way that we're"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1282.719,"endTime":1285.569,"body":"trained to look at really big"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1285.569,"endTime":1289.169,"body":"problems and break them down,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1285.569,"endTime":1289.169,"body":"and to analyze things and to"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1289.919,"endTime":1291.929,"body":"move forward. And that"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1289.919,"endTime":1291.929,"body":"meticulous and kind of"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1291.929,"endTime":1298.439,"body":"thoughtful way allowed me to"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1291.929,"endTime":1298.439,"body":"take that style of thinking I'd"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1298.439,"endTime":1304.529,"body":"apply it to broader product"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1298.439,"endTime":1304.529,"body":"development themes. And I ended"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1304.529,"endTime":1307.739,"body":"up actually really liking that"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1304.529,"endTime":1307.739,"body":"side of the that side of the"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1307.739,"endTime":1312.959,"body":"space. And I've kind of been on"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1307.739,"endTime":1312.959,"body":"that that more senior leadership"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1312.989,"endTime":1315.299,"body":"side of the spectrum, kind of"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1312.989,"endTime":1315.299,"body":"ever since."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1315.569,"endTime":1318.239,"body":"Okay, here's an"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1315.569,"endTime":1318.239,"body":"another question for you. And"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1318.239,"endTime":1322.829,"body":"this is not, this is not within"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1318.239,"endTime":1322.829,"body":"the context of Devin capital,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1322.829,"endTime":1327.1190000000001,"body":"this is a more general context"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1322.829,"endTime":1327.1190000000001,"body":"here, it seems to me like"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1327.1490000000001,"endTime":1331.8890000000001,"body":"oftentimes, there is an"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1327.1490000000001,"endTime":1331.8890000000001,"body":"incentive, whether it's"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1331.8890000000001,"endTime":1336.449,"body":"prestige, or financial"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1331.8890000000001,"endTime":1336.449,"body":"incentives for an engineer to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1337.049,"endTime":1342.989,"body":"move up into some sort of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1337.049,"endTime":1342.989,"body":"managerial or director role. And"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1343.679,"endTime":1348.839,"body":"you know, that that's great. I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1343.679,"endTime":1348.839,"body":"have a little bit of a problem"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1348.839,"endTime":1353.8790000000001,"body":"with it, when someone who's"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1348.839,"endTime":1353.8790000000001,"body":"really good at engineering, and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1353.8790000000001,"endTime":1359.3690000000001,"body":"maybe isn't going to be great at"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1353.8790000000001,"endTime":1359.3690000000001,"body":"managing people gets plucked"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1359.3690000000001,"endTime":1364.199,"body":"from the engineering pool and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1359.3690000000001,"endTime":1364.199,"body":"placed into an managerial role,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1364.229,"endTime":1368.339,"body":"simply because that individual"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1364.229,"endTime":1368.339,"body":"is very good at engineering. And"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1368.339,"endTime":1371.009,"body":"the assumption becomes, well, if"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1368.339,"endTime":1371.009,"body":"he's that good of an engineer,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1371.009,"endTime":1374.939,"body":"he's gonna be he's gonna make a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1371.009,"endTime":1374.939,"body":"great engineering manager. What"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1374.969,"endTime":1380.339,"body":"what do you think about that? Is"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1374.969,"endTime":1380.339,"body":"that a legitimate assumption? Or"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1380.339,"endTime":1380.6090000000002,"body":"not?"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1380.64,"endTime":1386.0700000000002,"body":"I would say"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1380.64,"endTime":1386.0700000000002,"body":"absolutely not. You, I have had"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1386.0700000000002,"endTime":1391.5900000000001,"body":"the pleasure of working with"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1386.0700000000002,"endTime":1391.5900000000001,"body":"some amazing engineers, just"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1391.71,"endTime":1394.92,"body":"brilliant engineers, and they're"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1391.71,"endTime":1394.92,"body":"great at doing what they're"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1394.92,"endTime":1401.4,"body":"doing. But they are, you have to"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1394.92,"endTime":1401.4,"body":"have the intellectual side, but"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1401.4,"endTime":1404.67,"body":"you also have to have the"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1401.4,"endTime":1404.67,"body":"emotional intelligence side. And"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1405.8700000000001,"endTime":1411.75,"body":"to be a really strong manager."},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1405.8700000000001,"endTime":1411.75,"body":"Or at least, maybe manager might"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1411.75,"endTime":1417.18,"body":"be maybe a different aspect. But"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1411.75,"endTime":1417.18,"body":"if you're talking like director,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1417.18,"endTime":1423.24,"body":"Senior Director, or VP level,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1417.18,"endTime":1423.24,"body":"you have to have a very strong"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1423.24,"endTime":1429.15,"body":"appreciation for the human side"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1423.24,"endTime":1429.15,"body":"of engineering. And we don't"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1429.15,"endTime":1433.68,"body":"always necessarily have that."},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1429.15,"endTime":1433.68,"body":"One thing that I've done with"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1433.68,"endTime":1437.8500000000001,"body":"companies that I've run the"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1433.68,"endTime":1437.8500000000001,"body":"development for, when we have"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1438.51,"endTime":1440.94,"body":"when I've had engineers that are"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1438.51,"endTime":1440.94,"body":"just brilliant engineers, and"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1440.94,"endTime":1443.88,"body":"they want to do more, and they"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1440.94,"endTime":1443.88,"body":"think a lot of great engineer"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1443.91,"endTime":1448.23,"body":"put me into management is that"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1443.91,"endTime":1448.23,"body":"often kind of coached them"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1448.23,"endTime":1452.79,"body":"toward a fellowship type role."},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1448.23,"endTime":1452.79,"body":"And in two different cases, I"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1452.79,"endTime":1455.94,"body":"had to kind of go and create"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1452.79,"endTime":1455.94,"body":"that side to help people"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1455.94,"endTime":1462.45,"body":"understand there is a role that"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1455.94,"endTime":1462.45,"body":"a very senior level engineer can"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1462.45,"endTime":1466.68,"body":"play, that is still a leadership"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1462.45,"endTime":1466.68,"body":"role, but it's not a managerial"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1466.71,"endTime":1471.39,"body":"role, but it is a leader of"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1466.71,"endTime":1471.39,"body":"other engineers. And to try to"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1471.39,"endTime":1474.15,"body":"create, like an engineering"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1471.39,"endTime":1474.15,"body":"fellow and senior fellow type"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1474.78,"endTime":1478.17,"body":"type roles within an"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1474.78,"endTime":1478.17,"body":"organization, so that people"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1478.17,"endTime":1481.2,"body":"have the opportunity to see"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1478.17,"endTime":1481.2,"body":"these. It's not that there's a"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1523.07,"endTime":1525.95,"body":"ceiling that you're brought up,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1523.07,"endTime":1525.95,"body":"but up against, and you can't go"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1525.95,"endTime":1528.98,"body":"anywhere unless you go into the"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1525.95,"endTime":1528.98,"body":"management managerial side. It's"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1528.98,"endTime":1532.46,"body":"not the case. I think even"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1528.98,"endTime":1532.46,"body":"really outstanding engineers,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1532.79,"endTime":1537.6799999999998,"body":"that don't have great people"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1532.79,"endTime":1537.6799999999998,"body":"skills, could still grow and"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1537.6799999999998,"endTime":1541.94,"body":"evolve and have more"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1537.6799999999998,"endTime":1541.94,"body":"responsibility and add amazing"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1541.94,"endTime":1546.56,"body":"value to organizations, as"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1541.94,"endTime":1546.56,"body":"leaders of other engineers to"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1546.56,"endTime":1550.01,"body":"kind of help mold younger"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1546.56,"endTime":1550.01,"body":"engineers that come in help"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1550.01,"endTime":1552.5,"body":"teach them the way that we do"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1550.01,"endTime":1552.5,"body":"design and development, whatever"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1552.5,"endTime":1557.24,"body":"the company is, help them"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1552.5,"endTime":1557.24,"body":"appreciate the value of your"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1557.24,"endTime":1560.69,"body":"experience, wait, you know,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1557.24,"endTime":1560.69,"body":"sharing it with them? That's a"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1560.69,"endTime":1563.6599999999999,"body":"really valuable asset and you"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1560.69,"endTime":1563.6599999999999,"body":"don't have to be a manager or a"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1563.6599999999999,"endTime":1567.62,"body":"director to do all that. So"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1563.6599999999999,"endTime":1567.62,"body":"yeah,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1567.649,"endTime":1571.009,"body":"that's a really"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1567.649,"endTime":1571.009,"body":"interesting approach. So it's"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1571.009,"endTime":1576.4089999999999,"body":"almost like a quasi manager. We"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1571.009,"endTime":1576.4089999999999,"body":"can't really use that word"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1576.4089999999999,"endTime":1579.4089999999999,"body":"really to describe it, but and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1576.4089999999999,"endTime":1579.4089999999999,"body":"this gets into a little bit of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1579.4089999999999,"endTime":1582.9489999999998,"body":"your your coaching or"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1579.4089999999999,"endTime":1582.9489999999998,"body":"consultancy aspect with product."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1583.249,"endTime":1587.299,"body":"How How does a company go about"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1583.249,"endTime":1587.299,"body":"about implementing that sort of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1587.299,"endTime":1593.239,"body":"role, given that they're parb,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1587.299,"endTime":1593.239,"body":"probably already have an"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1593.239,"endTime":1596.719,"body":"engineering manager, but they"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1593.239,"endTime":1596.719,"body":"have this really seasoned really"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1596.719,"endTime":1602.239,"body":"talented engineer that they want"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1596.719,"endTime":1602.239,"body":"to step into that quasi"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1602.239,"endTime":1606.829,"body":"leadership role. How do you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1602.239,"endTime":1606.829,"body":"implement that? That engineer"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1606.829,"endTime":1608.119,"body":"leader role."},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1608.479,"endTime":1610.4589999999998,"body":"So I mean, the"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1608.479,"endTime":1610.4589999999998,"body":"way that I've done it is to"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1610.4589999999998,"endTime":1615.649,"body":"develop two different tracks so"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1610.4589999999998,"endTime":1615.649,"body":"that everyone can see a forward"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1615.649,"endTime":1618.739,"body":"looking trajectory that they"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1615.649,"endTime":1618.739,"body":"might be able to follow. And"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1619.4589999999998,"endTime":1623.4189999999999,"body":"your, your glide path might be"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1619.4589999999998,"endTime":1623.4189999999999,"body":"on the managerial side, or your"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1623.4189999999999,"endTime":1626.749,"body":"glide path might be that you're"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1623.4189999999999,"endTime":1626.749,"body":"interested more in staying"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1626.749,"endTime":1632.4189999999999,"body":"purely technical, and you, you"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1626.749,"endTime":1632.4189999999999,"body":"don't want to be involved in the"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1632.4189999999999,"endTime":1635.1789999999999,"body":"in the managerial side of things"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1632.4189999999999,"endTime":1635.1789999999999,"body":"with performance reviews, and"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1635.1789999999999,"endTime":1638.9289999999999,"body":"all the other stuff that comes"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1635.1789999999999,"endTime":1638.9289999999999,"body":"along with that. Or maybe it"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1638.9289999999999,"endTime":1641.6589999999999,"body":"might be that you think you want"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1638.9289999999999,"endTime":1641.6589999999999,"body":"that. But your organization"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1641.6589999999999,"endTime":1643.999,"body":"says, You know what, you're"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1641.6589999999999,"endTime":1643.999,"body":"probably going to add more value"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1643.999,"endTime":1648.259,"body":"for us on the technical track."},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1643.999,"endTime":1648.259,"body":"But to create two of those and"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1648.259,"endTime":1653.389,"body":"show on those different"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1648.259,"endTime":1653.389,"body":"evolution charts, to say,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1653.4489999999998,"endTime":1655.6989999999998,"body":"alright, well, you can start as"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1653.4489999999998,"endTime":1655.6989999999998,"body":"an engineer, but eventually, at"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1655.6989999999998,"endTime":1658.789,"body":"some point, you can branch and"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1655.6989999999998,"endTime":1658.789,"body":"you can start to go this manager"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1658.819,"endTime":1663.9189999999999,"body":"way, or you can start to go this"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1658.819,"endTime":1663.9189999999999,"body":"technical leadership way. And I"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1663.9189999999999,"endTime":1666.649,"body":"would demonstrate that the"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1663.9189999999999,"endTime":1666.649,"body":"salary ranges are the same,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1666.649,"endTime":1672.019,"body":"depending on both both tracks"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1666.649,"endTime":1672.019,"body":"that you're taking. Is it"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1672.019,"endTime":1674.2089999999998,"body":"because that's important to make"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1672.019,"endTime":1674.2089999999998,"body":"sure that because a lot of"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1674.2089999999998,"endTime":1677.149,"body":"people think, well, I can only"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1674.2089999999998,"endTime":1677.149,"body":"get more money if I become a"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1677.149,"endTime":1681.289,"body":"manager or a director. And I"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1677.149,"endTime":1681.289,"body":"say, No, that's not not the case"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1681.289,"endTime":1686.089,"body":"and the situations that I've put"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1681.289,"endTime":1686.089,"body":"in place, so you can be an"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1686.089,"endTime":1689.869,"body":"engineering fellow, and you can"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1686.089,"endTime":1689.869,"body":"get paid the same as, you know,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1689.869,"endTime":1694.549,"body":"a senior director, if you're a"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1689.869,"endTime":1694.549,"body":"senior fellow, my expectations"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1694.549,"endTime":1696.829,"body":"and the company's expectations"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1694.549,"endTime":1696.829,"body":"of you are different, but"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1696.829,"endTime":1700.789,"body":"there's still very high level"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1696.829,"endTime":1700.789,"body":"expectations. No one is much"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1700.789,"endTime":1703.4289999999999,"body":"more on the strategic side, how"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1700.789,"endTime":1703.4289999999999,"body":"do we take the company and the"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1703.4289999999999,"endTime":1706.849,"body":"product in one direction? What"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1703.4289999999999,"endTime":1706.849,"body":"kind of team do we need, but the"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1706.849,"endTime":1710.299,"body":"other one is really, that mentor"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1706.849,"endTime":1710.299,"body":"and that role model and that"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1710.299,"endTime":1713.4189999999999,"body":"coach for the team, and you need"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1710.299,"endTime":1713.4189999999999,"body":"those people, and you have to"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1713.4189999999999,"endTime":1717.049,"body":"pay them appropriately. At least"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1713.4189999999999,"endTime":1717.049,"body":"that's been, that's been my"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1717.049,"endTime":1722.539,"body":"experience. But by sending two"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1717.049,"endTime":1722.539,"body":"tracks in place, it really is"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1722.539,"endTime":1726.079,"body":"liberating it frees you up as an"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1722.539,"endTime":1726.079,"body":"engineer to see, alright, well,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1726.079,"endTime":1730.579,"body":"I don't have this single path"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1726.079,"endTime":1730.579,"body":"that I have to follow, which is"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1730.579,"endTime":1736.6689999999999,"body":"all just, you know, engineer,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1730.579,"endTime":1736.6689999999999,"body":"Senior Engineer, manager, senior"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1736.6689999999999,"endTime":1740.509,"body":"manager, director, Senior"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1736.6689999999999,"endTime":1740.509,"body":"Director, VP, it doesn't have to"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1740.509,"endTime":1741.319,"body":"be that track."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1741.649,"endTime":1745.1589999999999,"body":"That's wonderful."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1741.649,"endTime":1745.1589999999999,"body":"That's wonderful. I agree 100%,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1745.1589999999999,"endTime":1750.829,"body":"that there shouldn't be this"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1745.1589999999999,"endTime":1750.829,"body":"like monetary or just prestige"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1750.829,"endTime":1757.099,"body":"based benefit to going into a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1750.829,"endTime":1757.099,"body":"manager, you should be able to,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1757.129,"endTime":1761.779,"body":"to receive the same, you know,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1757.129,"endTime":1761.779,"body":"recognition as being a really"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1761.779,"endTime":1765.6789999999999,"body":"good engineer, that, that the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1761.779,"endTime":1765.6789999999999,"body":"prestige shouldn't be associated"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1765.6789999999999,"endTime":1770.059,"body":"with leadership necessarily, it"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1765.6789999999999,"endTime":1770.059,"body":"should be associated with being"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1770.059,"endTime":1773.1789999999999,"body":"really good at what you do. Now,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1770.059,"endTime":1773.1789999999999,"body":"of course, there are limits to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1773.1789999999999,"endTime":1776.119,"body":"that a really, really good"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1773.1789999999999,"endTime":1776.119,"body":"janitor is never going to make"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1776.119,"endTime":1779.269,"body":"as much money as a really,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1776.119,"endTime":1779.269,"body":"really good engineer. But yeah,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1779.299,"endTime":1785.269,"body":"you know what I'm saying? So"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1779.299,"endTime":1785.269,"body":"let's, let's get into product a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1785.269,"endTime":1790.339,"body":"little bit more. We talked about"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1785.269,"endTime":1790.339,"body":"your, your coaching, and let's"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1790.339,"endTime":1793.9089999999999,"body":"say that I have, I don't know, a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1790.339,"endTime":1793.9089999999999,"body":"startup company, do you work"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1793.9089999999999,"endTime":1797.239,"body":"with mostly startups or do work"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1793.9089999999999,"endTime":1797.239,"body":"with more established companies"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1797.239,"endTime":1797.719,"body":"as well."},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1798.29,"endTime":1804.95,"body":"So we focus our"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1798.29,"endTime":1804.95,"body":"attention primarily on emerging"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1804.95,"endTime":1810.71,"body":"entrepreneurs and earlier stage"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1804.95,"endTime":1810.71,"body":"companies. You know, you might"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1810.71,"endTime":1815.69,"body":"have an a round closed, or a B,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1810.71,"endTime":1815.69,"body":"or maybe even be working on a C."},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1816.44,"endTime":1824.21,"body":"But for the most part, we don't"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1816.44,"endTime":1824.21,"body":"target companies that are, you"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1824.21,"endTime":1826.25,"body":"know, huge multinational"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1824.21,"endTime":1826.25,"body":"companies, because they've"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1826.25,"endTime":1829.8799999999999,"body":"already got tons of engineers"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1826.25,"endTime":1829.8799999999999,"body":"and tons of development work"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1829.8799999999999,"endTime":1833.9299999999998,"body":"that's happening. We have"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1829.8799999999999,"endTime":1833.9299999999998,"body":"supported larger companies,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1834.2,"endTime":1836.84,"body":"especially when they're looking"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1834.2,"endTime":1836.84,"body":"for kind of external"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1836.87,"endTime":1843.1699999999998,"body":"perspectives on things. But our"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1836.87,"endTime":1843.1699999999998,"body":"targets, our target audience,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1843.1699999999998,"endTime":1846.5,"body":"really is is that more of"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1843.1699999999998,"endTime":1846.5,"body":"emerging entrepreneurs in"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1846.5,"endTime":1849.56,"body":"earlier stage companies, because"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1846.5,"endTime":1849.56,"body":"we'd really like to get in,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1849.95,"endTime":1855.08,"body":"right at the very beginning, and"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1849.95,"endTime":1855.08,"body":"help this first time CTO and"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1855.08,"endTime":1860.6299999999999,"body":"first time CEO or, you know, it"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1855.08,"endTime":1860.6299999999999,"body":"could be two folks that just"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1860.6299999999999,"endTime":1863.33,"body":"finished their PhD and they"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1860.6299999999999,"endTime":1863.33,"body":"decided to start a company with"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1863.33,"endTime":1868.1299999999999,"body":"some technology that that she"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1863.33,"endTime":1868.1299999999999,"body":"developed and they're in,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1868.1299999999999,"endTime":1871.31,"body":"they're moving forward with"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1868.1299999999999,"endTime":1871.31,"body":"something. But they've really"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1872.0,"endTime":1875.12,"body":"never developed a product that's"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1872.0,"endTime":1875.12,"body":"gonna go out into the"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1875.12,"endTime":1879.29,"body":"marketplace and need to be"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1875.12,"endTime":1879.29,"body":"successful. So we'd like to help"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1879.29,"endTime":1883.25,"body":"those very early stage companies"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1879.29,"endTime":1883.25,"body":"and there's a lot of enthusiasm"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1883.25,"endTime":1888.2,"body":"and excitement in that space. So"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1883.25,"endTime":1888.2,"body":"it's just a place that we enjoy"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1888.8,"endTime":1889.3999999999999,"body":"working with."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1889.9089999999999,"endTime":1893.6589999999999,"body":"Yeah. Okay, so"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1889.9089999999999,"endTime":1893.6589999999999,"body":"focusing on young startups,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1893.6589999999999,"endTime":1896.869,"body":"stage companies, let's say I'm"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1893.6589999999999,"endTime":1896.869,"body":"one of those. So I've got this"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1896.869,"endTime":1899.119,"body":"new product, it's going to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1896.869,"endTime":1899.119,"body":"change the world, we just need"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1899.119,"endTime":1903.349,"body":"to get it developed and onto"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1899.119,"endTime":1903.349,"body":"market, I come to use a Devin,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1903.379,"endTime":1906.469,"body":"we're, you know, we've got a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1903.379,"endTime":1906.469,"body":"pretty good team got 10 or 20"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1906.469,"endTime":1912.619,"body":"people here. I'm a first time"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1906.469,"endTime":1912.619,"body":"CTO CEO, what happens next."},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1913.55,"endTime":1917.12,"body":"So the first"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1913.55,"endTime":1917.12,"body":"thing that we'll have to do when"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1917.12,"endTime":1921.62,"body":"we come in is to understand what"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1917.12,"endTime":1921.62,"body":"your long term goal is, with"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1921.62,"endTime":1924.1399999999999,"body":"whatever it is, you're"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1921.62,"endTime":1924.1399999999999,"body":"developing. One thing, I think"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1924.1399999999999,"endTime":1927.44,"body":"it's probably important for"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1924.1399999999999,"endTime":1927.44,"body":"listeners to understand my"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1927.44,"endTime":1933.29,"body":"entire career. Other than some"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1927.44,"endTime":1933.29,"body":"small optics work that I did,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1933.5,"endTime":1938.6,"body":"while in school, my entire"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1933.5,"endTime":1938.6,"body":"career has been in medical"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1938.6599999999999,"endTime":1943.1599999999999,"body":"diagnostic devices and"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1938.6599999999999,"endTime":1943.1599999999999,"body":"therapeutics. So everything that"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1943.1599999999999,"endTime":1948.95,"body":"I've done has been FDA, kind of"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1943.1599999999999,"endTime":1948.95,"body":"under FDA jurisdiction, in some"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1948.95,"endTime":1951.74,"body":"cases, but it's not, it's still"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1948.95,"endTime":1951.74,"body":"a life science tool. It's doing"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1951.77,"endTime":1956.6599999999999,"body":"r\u0026d work. So it's a very"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1951.77,"endTime":1956.6599999999999,"body":"specific skill set and niche"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1956.6599999999999,"endTime":1962.09,"body":"market that we try to go after"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1956.6599999999999,"endTime":1962.09,"body":"in support. 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So if you"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1967.37,"endTime":1969.9199999999998,"body":"think you're going to be"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1967.37,"endTime":1969.9199999999998,"body":"bringing this new diagnostic"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1969.9199999999998,"endTime":1973.1599999999999,"body":"device or this new therapeutic,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1969.9199999999998,"endTime":1973.1599999999999,"body":"or an implantable or something"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1973.55,"endTime":1977.6599999999999,"body":"to market someday, you're going"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1973.55,"endTime":1977.6599999999999,"body":"to have to deal with regulators."},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1978.5,"endTime":1982.46,"body":"So I like to understand what is"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1978.5,"endTime":1982.46,"body":"it you're trying to do with your"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1982.46,"endTime":1985.28,"body":"product? What markets do you"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1982.46,"endTime":1985.28,"body":"want to sell it into? Who are"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1985.28,"endTime":1990.11,"body":"the people that you're trying to"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1985.28,"endTime":1990.11,"body":"help with it? Once we understand"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1990.11,"endTime":1997.1599999999999,"body":"that, that aspect of the"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1990.11,"endTime":1997.1599999999999,"body":"product, I like to focus because"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1997.1599999999999,"endTime":2000.3999999999999,"body":"we're highly technical, we focus"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":1997.1599999999999,"endTime":2000.3999999999999,"body":"very deeply on the science"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2000.3999999999999,"endTime":2004.96,"body":"behind what they're doing, which"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2000.3999999999999,"endTime":2004.96,"body":"is fun in the biotech space. 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What are your user"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2019.3899999999999,"endTime":2024.31,"body":"needs, it's good business"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2019.3899999999999,"endTime":2024.31,"body":"practice to do it anyway. But in"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2024.31,"endTime":2029.59,"body":"the medical device industry,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2024.31,"endTime":2029.59,"body":"whether you're ISO 13, you're"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2029.59,"endTime":2032.95,"body":"developing something under an"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2029.59,"endTime":2032.95,"body":"ISO 1345, implant quality"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2032.95,"endTime":2037.4199999999998,"body":"system. Or if you expect to get"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2032.95,"endTime":2037.4199999999998,"body":"FDA approval someday on"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2037.4199999999998,"endTime":2040.21,"body":"something, you know, there's"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2037.4199999999998,"endTime":2040.21,"body":"certain things that you have to"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2040.21,"endTime":2046.0,"body":"have in place. So we'll start to"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2040.21,"endTime":2046.0,"body":"interrogate the work that had"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2046.0,"endTime":2051.16,"body":"been done to date to understand"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2046.0,"endTime":2051.16,"body":"where is there some gaps. And"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2051.7000000000003,"endTime":2054.58,"body":"there's been times where I'll"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2051.7000000000003,"endTime":2054.58,"body":"start working with a company,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2054.58,"endTime":2058.9,"body":"and we'll start diving into it"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2054.58,"endTime":2058.9,"body":"and realize, you know, there"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2058.9,"endTime":2062.05,"body":"aren't, you know, there's no"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2058.9,"endTime":2062.05,"body":"documented Product Requirements"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2062.05,"endTime":2065.32,"body":"anywhere, there's no user needs,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2062.05,"endTime":2065.32,"body":"and then product requirements,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2065.44,"endTime":2070.6,"body":"you know, that are evolving from"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2065.44,"endTime":2070.6,"body":"those user needs, and then"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2070.63,"endTime":2072.61,"body":"evolves, ultimately, they would"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2070.63,"endTime":2072.61,"body":"evolve into product"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2072.61,"endTime":2075.37,"body":"specifications, software"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2072.61,"endTime":2075.37,"body":"specifications, everything else"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2075.37,"endTime":2080.08,"body":"that we need to do. So will kind"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2075.37,"endTime":2080.08,"body":"of look backwards and say, Well,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2080.08,"endTime":2083.86,"body":"what should we have done? To get"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2080.08,"endTime":2083.86,"body":"to, you know, to get to where we"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2083.86,"endTime":2087.91,"body":"are right now? And what kind of"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2083.86,"endTime":2087.91,"body":"gap analysis do we need to put"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2087.91,"endTime":2093.31,"body":"in place and get mitigations put"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2087.91,"endTime":2093.31,"body":"in place to bring us up to speed"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2093.31,"endTime":2097.12,"body":"with where we should be knowing"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2093.31,"endTime":2097.12,"body":"what our long term goal is? And"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2097.12,"endTime":2099.8199999999997,"body":"if you're thinking in two or"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2097.12,"endTime":2099.8199999999997,"body":"three years from now, I think I"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2099.8199999999997,"endTime":2106.96,"body":"want to sell this device in the"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2099.8199999999997,"endTime":2106.96,"body":"US. In Mexico, and in Europe,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2107.1099999999997,"endTime":2109.5699999999997,"body":"okay, well, fine. Those are"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2107.1099999999997,"endTime":2109.5699999999997,"body":"three different regulatory"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2109.5699999999997,"endTime":2112.5699999999997,"body":"agencies, those three different"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2109.5699999999997,"endTime":2112.5699999999997,"body":"expectations, their safety"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2112.5699999999997,"endTime":2117.46,"body":"certification you have to do. So"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2112.5699999999997,"endTime":2117.46,"body":"we'll start kind of teasing in"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2117.49,"endTime":2121.0899999999997,"body":"what are those things that we"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2117.49,"endTime":2121.0899999999997,"body":"need to do now, so that by the"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2121.0899999999997,"endTime":2124.0899999999997,"body":"time you're done with product"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2121.0899999999997,"endTime":2124.0899999999997,"body":"development, you've done some"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2124.0899999999997,"endTime":2126.85,"body":"verification and validation,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2124.0899999999997,"endTime":2126.85,"body":"you've got a good product,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2127.27,"endTime":2130.27,"body":"you're not starting over from"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2127.27,"endTime":2130.27,"body":"scratch and saying, Okay, let's"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2130.27,"endTime":2133.54,"body":"go get FDA approval, when in"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2130.27,"endTime":2133.54,"body":"reality should have been doing"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2133.54,"endTime":2137.17,"body":"things in a certain way and"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2133.54,"endTime":2137.17,"body":"documenting certain things from"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2137.17,"endTime":2141.04,"body":"the very beginning, right, the"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2137.17,"endTime":2141.04,"body":"backfill, and it's, it can be"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2141.04,"endTime":2145.15,"body":"done, and a lot of companies do"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2141.04,"endTime":2145.15,"body":"it. It's just really expensive"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2145.36,"endTime":2149.68,"body":"to hire consults should come in"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2145.36,"endTime":2149.68,"body":"and help you recreate design"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2149.68,"endTime":2154.09,"body":"history file, at the end, rather"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2149.68,"endTime":2154.09,"body":"than have having built it in"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2154.09,"endTime":2157.6,"body":"little pieces. And in an"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2154.09,"endTime":2157.6,"body":"inexpensive way from the very"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2157.6,"endTime":2161.44,"body":"beginning. Because you had"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2157.6,"endTime":2161.44,"body":"someone help teach you about the"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2161.44,"endTime":2164.2,"body":"importance of doing it. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2161.44,"endTime":2164.2,"body":"you know, and that's step by"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2164.2,"endTime":2164.74,"body":"step way."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2165.31,"endTime":2168.13,"body":"So not necessarily"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2165.31,"endTime":2168.13,"body":"specific to the medical device"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2168.13,"endTime":2170.83,"body":"industry, but product"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2168.13,"endTime":2170.83,"body":"development engineering in"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2170.83,"endTime":2175.0299999999997,"body":"general. What are some of the,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2170.83,"endTime":2175.0299999999997,"body":"the big obstacles that you've"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2175.0299999999997,"endTime":2179.32,"body":"seen in these smaller startup"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2175.0299999999997,"endTime":2179.32,"body":"companies and what what"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2179.32,"endTime":2182.98,"body":"strategies have you shared with"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2179.32,"endTime":2182.98,"body":"them? Or what strategies might"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2183.07,"endTime":2185.5299999999997,"body":"someone who's not even working"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2183.07,"endTime":2185.5299999999997,"body":"with you but maybe just listen"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2185.56,"endTime":2189.79,"body":"to this podcast considered to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2185.56,"endTime":2189.79,"body":"overcome those those obstacles?"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2190.06,"endTime":2193.12,"body":"Well, I think"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2190.06,"endTime":2193.12,"body":"one piece of we touched on it"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2193.12,"endTime":2196.72,"body":"before is to keep a really open"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2193.12,"endTime":2196.72,"body":"mind think holistically about"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2196.72,"endTime":2202.42,"body":"what it is that you do as an"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2196.72,"endTime":2202.42,"body":"engineer, but also if you're if"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2202.42,"endTime":2205.0299999999997,"body":"you're an early stage company,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2202.42,"endTime":2205.0299999999997,"body":"and maybe you're the engineer"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2205.0299999999997,"endTime":2209.47,"body":"are one of the early leaders for"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2205.0299999999997,"endTime":2209.47,"body":"the organization, to think"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2209.47,"endTime":2214.39,"body":"holistically through all"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2209.47,"endTime":2214.39,"body":"aspects, the entire lifecycle of"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2214.39,"endTime":2218.32,"body":"your product, who's going to be"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2214.39,"endTime":2218.32,"body":"touching it? Who needs to review"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2218.32,"endTime":2223.15,"body":"it? Who needs to approve it? How"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2218.32,"endTime":2223.15,"body":"does it get manufactured? All of"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2223.15,"endTime":2229.21,"body":"that allows you, if you think"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2223.15,"endTime":2229.21,"body":"strategically for the long term"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2229.21,"endTime":2233.7999999999997,"body":"play, it allows you to do that"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2229.21,"endTime":2233.7999999999997,"body":"near term steps in a very"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2233.7999999999997,"endTime":2237.49,"body":"careful and thoughtful way. 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Knowing that"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2258.1,"endTime":2262.87,"body":"holistic taking that holistic"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2258.1,"endTime":2262.87,"body":"view really allows you to meet"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2262.87,"endTime":2266.62,"body":"the needs of your state of your"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2262.87,"endTime":2266.62,"body":"downstream stakeholders. And,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2267.07,"endTime":2269.7999999999997,"body":"and if you're building up a"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2267.07,"endTime":2269.7999999999997,"body":"company, it allows you to build"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2269.7999999999997,"endTime":2272.89,"body":"value in the company by"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2269.7999999999997,"endTime":2272.89,"body":"demonstrating the people,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2273.16,"endTime":2277.39,"body":"whether they're VCs or potential"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2273.16,"endTime":2277.39,"body":"partners, that you have an"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2277.39,"endTime":2283.36,"body":"appreciation for that whole the"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2277.39,"endTime":2283.36,"body":"whole environment in which your"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2283.36,"endTime":2285.25,"body":"your product is ultimately going"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2283.36,"endTime":2285.25,"body":"to go into"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2285.91,"endTime":2287.95,"body":"that's, that's"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2285.91,"endTime":2287.95,"body":"solid advice, I'm going to give"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2287.95,"endTime":2293.62,"body":"you 1000 points for that answer."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2287.95,"endTime":2293.62,"body":"Yeah. What, what are some of the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2293.62,"endTime":2296.62,"body":"biggest challenges that you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2293.62,"endTime":2296.62,"body":"personally have at work?"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2298.15,"endTime":2301.87,"body":"At work now or"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2298.15,"endTime":2301.87,"body":"at work? In my past,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2302.11,"endTime":2302.83,"body":"take your pick."},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2306.25,"endTime":2310.0,"body":"You know, that's"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2306.25,"endTime":2310.0,"body":"an interesting dynamic, when I"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2310.0,"endTime":2316.6,"body":"made this shift from working 20,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2310.0,"endTime":2316.6,"body":"some years in product"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2316.6,"endTime":2320.2599999999998,"body":"development, working for one"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2316.6,"endTime":2320.2599999999998,"body":"company at a time, you know,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2320.2599999999998,"endTime":2324.5499999999997,"body":"working on one product at a time"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2320.2599999999998,"endTime":2324.5499999999997,"body":"using one technology at a time"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2325.72,"endTime":2333.07,"body":"to try to make this pivot into"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2325.72,"endTime":2333.07,"body":"this role, where you're doing"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2333.13,"endTime":2336.0099999999998,"body":"advisory work for lots of"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2333.13,"endTime":2336.0099999999998,"body":"companies kind of at the same"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2336.0099999999998,"endTime":2342.13,"body":"time. And it's really not that"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2336.0099999999998,"endTime":2342.13,"body":"much different than working on"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2342.13,"endTime":2346.48,"body":"several projects internal to a"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2342.13,"endTime":2346.48,"body":"company at one time. I mean, you"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2346.48,"endTime":2349.75,"body":"just have to still kind of"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2346.48,"endTime":2349.75,"body":"manage all of that. But it took"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2349.75,"endTime":2354.1,"body":"me a little bit of time to do"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2349.75,"endTime":2354.1,"body":"the mental gymnastics to kind of"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2354.1,"endTime":2360.79,"body":"get my brain wrapped around."},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2354.1,"endTime":2360.79,"body":"Shifting gears and going from"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2361.33,"endTime":2365.14,"body":"one technology and one company"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2361.33,"endTime":2365.14,"body":"that I'm working with in the"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2365.14,"endTime":2369.5499999999997,"body":"morning to in the afternoon,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2365.14,"endTime":2369.5499999999997,"body":"working with another I've, I've"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2369.5499999999997,"endTime":2372.7599999999998,"body":"learned I've come to learn that"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2369.5499999999997,"endTime":2372.7599999999998,"body":"I find it invigorating, and I"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2372.7599999999998,"endTime":2378.91,"body":"really enjoy it. But that has"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2372.7599999999998,"endTime":2378.91,"body":"been kind of not even really a"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2378.91,"endTime":2382.63,"body":"challenge just been more kind of"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2378.91,"endTime":2382.63,"body":"an interesting observation and"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2382.63,"endTime":2388.66,"body":"making this pivot. And it gives"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2382.63,"endTime":2388.66,"body":"you not just different"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2388.66,"endTime":2392.2,"body":"technology at different"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2388.66,"endTime":2392.2,"body":"companies to work within, but"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2392.2599999999998,"endTime":2396.19,"body":"you're working with different"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2392.2599999999998,"endTime":2396.19,"body":"people as well. And I have"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2396.19,"endTime":2402.07,"body":"found, I do everything I can"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2396.19,"endTime":2402.07,"body":"with our organization with"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2402.07,"endTime":2406.24,"body":"product to avoid using the word"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2402.07,"endTime":2406.24,"body":"consultants, we we don't"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2406.24,"endTime":2408.85,"body":"position ourselves as"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2406.24,"endTime":2408.85,"body":"consultants, we position"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2408.85,"endTime":2414.82,"body":"ourselves really as advisors as"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2408.85,"endTime":2414.82,"body":"coaches and mentors. And one"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2414.82,"endTime":2417.94,"body":"line that I like to use a lot of"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2414.82,"endTime":2417.94,"body":"people pretty frequently is,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2418.18,"endTime":2422.14,"body":"like, you know, if you've been"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2418.18,"endTime":2422.14,"body":"working for a while, you likely"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2422.14,"endTime":2425.02,"body":"will have worked with some"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2422.14,"endTime":2425.02,"body":"consultants at some point. And"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2425.02,"endTime":2428.2599999999998,"body":"there are a lot of really great"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2425.02,"endTime":2428.2599999999998,"body":"consultants that are out there."},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2428.65,"endTime":2432.73,"body":"But there are also consultants"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2428.65,"endTime":2432.73,"body":"that just kind of come in and"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2432.73,"endTime":2435.19,"body":"take a look at your design, take"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2432.73,"endTime":2435.19,"body":"a look at what you're working"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2435.19,"endTime":2441.1,"body":"on. And just rip it to shreds"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2435.19,"endTime":2441.1,"body":"and then kind of said then all"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2441.1,"endTime":2444.0099999999998,"body":"this is crap. And just I think"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2441.1,"endTime":2444.0099999999998,"body":"you should do this instead and"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2444.0099999999998,"endTime":2448.0299999999997,"body":"then disappear without really"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2444.0099999999998,"endTime":2448.0299999999997,"body":"any responsibility. You know,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2448.0299999999997,"endTime":2451.2999999999997,"body":"they got they got paid, they"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2448.0299999999997,"endTime":2451.2999999999997,"body":"they came gave you their opinion"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2451.2999999999997,"endTime":2458.59,"body":"and they're gone. And I've tried"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2451.2999999999997,"endTime":2458.59,"body":"to position and build up my"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2458.59,"endTime":2462.94,"body":"company, to focus more on"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2458.59,"endTime":2462.94,"body":"working collaboratively with our"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2462.94,"endTime":2468.19,"body":"clients and not and trying to"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2462.94,"endTime":2468.19,"body":"avoid that. That bad taste that"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2468.19,"endTime":2470.95,"body":"you get in your mouth when you"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2468.19,"endTime":2470.95,"body":"end up working with a consultant"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2470.98,"endTime":2474.31,"body":"that when you're at the end,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2470.98,"endTime":2474.31,"body":"you're like, that wasn't really"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2474.31,"endTime":2478.57,"body":"helpful. I just feel bad about"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2474.31,"endTime":2478.57,"body":"myself now. We're really there"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2478.57,"endTime":2482.44,"body":"to be kind of encouraging and"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2478.57,"endTime":2482.44,"body":"supportive is not to mean that"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2482.44,"endTime":2487.0,"body":"we're not going to suggest maybe"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2482.44,"endTime":2487.0,"body":"different ways to do things. and"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2487.0,"endTime":2490.66,"body":"more efficient, efficient ways."},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2487.0,"endTime":2490.66,"body":"I mean, you're using an"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2490.66,"endTime":2494.77,"body":"organization or an advisory firm"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2490.66,"endTime":2494.77,"body":"like, like product, to be able"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2494.77,"endTime":2499.0299999999997,"body":"to take advantage of our 20 Some"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2494.77,"endTime":2499.0299999999997,"body":"years of experience and success,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2499.93,"endTime":2503.17,"body":"bringing, bringing products to"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2499.93,"endTime":2503.17,"body":"market and building companies"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2503.17,"endTime":2507.07,"body":"that, you know, go public and"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2503.17,"endTime":2507.07,"body":"get purchased for, you know,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2507.37,"endTime":2512.2599999999998,"body":"huge sums of money. You're"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2507.37,"endTime":2512.2599999999998,"body":"paying for that. So you want"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2512.2599999999998,"endTime":2516.4,"body":"that feedback. But I found that"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2512.2599999999998,"endTime":2516.4,"body":"sometimes there's people that"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2516.4,"endTime":2520.7799999999997,"body":"just aren't necessarily"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2516.4,"endTime":2520.7799999999997,"body":"interested, they want you to"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2520.7799999999997,"endTime":2524.08,"body":"really just kind of validate the"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2520.7799999999997,"endTime":2524.08,"body":"idea they already have. And so"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2524.08,"endTime":2527.62,"body":"generally, that's been a big"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2524.08,"endTime":2527.62,"body":"challenge for us in this in this"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2528.7599999999998,"endTime":2532.12,"body":"new kind of advisory role is to"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2528.7599999999998,"endTime":2532.12,"body":"make sure that we're working"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2532.12,"endTime":2537.79,"body":"with resources and with teams"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2532.12,"endTime":2537.79,"body":"that want to learn and want to"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2537.79,"endTime":2542.62,"body":"grow and are open minded to new"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2537.79,"endTime":2542.62,"body":"ideas. I don't care if you don't"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2542.62,"endTime":2545.86,"body":"necessarily do what it is that"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2542.62,"endTime":2545.86,"body":"we think you should do. But you"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2545.86,"endTime":2549.13,"body":"should at least listen. And a"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2545.86,"endTime":2549.13,"body":"lot of times, I've found that,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2549.13,"endTime":2552.31,"body":"you know, one of our challenges"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2549.13,"endTime":2552.31,"body":"is that, sometimes people,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2552.97,"endTime":2555.07,"body":"they're really just looking for"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2552.97,"endTime":2555.07,"body":"an external validation of what"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2555.07,"endTime":2557.86,"body":"they already have in mind. And"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2555.07,"endTime":2557.86,"body":"they just keep looking until"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2557.86,"endTime":2560.68,"body":"they find someone that will give"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2557.86,"endTime":2560.68,"body":"them that external validation."},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2561.0099999999998,"endTime":2563.29,"body":"And, you know, that's not really"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2561.0099999999998,"endTime":2563.29,"body":"what I'm interested in doing."},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2563.29,"endTime":2567.04,"body":"I'm here to help build you as an"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2563.29,"endTime":2567.04,"body":"organization and build you as an"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2567.04,"endTime":2571.45,"body":"engineer and as a leader. And"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2567.04,"endTime":2571.45,"body":"not just to be kind of a paid"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2571.45,"endTime":2574.72,"body":"Yes, man. And so that's been"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2571.45,"endTime":2574.72,"body":"kind of an interesting challenge"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2574.72,"endTime":2578.41,"body":"as well, that I've learned. You"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2574.72,"endTime":2578.41,"body":"see that also, obviously, and,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2578.44,"endTime":2583.27,"body":"and one company type"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2578.44,"endTime":2583.27,"body":"environments, but I think you"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2583.27,"endTime":2586.81,"body":"see it a bit more, as I've made"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2583.27,"endTime":2586.81,"body":"this pivot into into the"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2586.81,"endTime":2588.7599999999998,"body":"advisory side of things. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2589.18,"endTime":2592.0,"body":"All right. Thank"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2589.18,"endTime":2592.0,"body":"you for sharing that. Two more"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2592.0,"endTime":2596.5,"body":"questions. One of them is not"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2592.0,"endTime":2596.5,"body":"even a real question. So really,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2596.5,"endTime":2602.32,"body":"one more question here. Have you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2596.5,"endTime":2602.32,"body":"developed any habits over the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2602.32,"endTime":2608.7999999999997,"body":"years that have made you more"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2602.32,"endTime":2608.7999999999997,"body":"productive as an engineer, as a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2608.7999999999997,"endTime":2612.94,"body":"leader could be a nighttime"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2608.7999999999997,"endTime":2612.94,"body":"routine, or a checklist when you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2612.94,"endTime":2615.64,"body":"do a certain type of work?"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2612.94,"endTime":2615.64,"body":"Anything like that, that you can"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2615.64,"endTime":2617.0499999999997,"body":"share? So"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2617.049,"endTime":2621.729,"body":"I think, yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2617.049,"endTime":2621.729,"body":"think two ideas. One, there's"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2621.729,"endTime":2625.389,"body":"all sorts of tests, you can"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2621.729,"endTime":2625.389,"body":"take, like Myers Briggs tests"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2625.389,"endTime":2628.779,"body":"and things like that, that"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2625.389,"endTime":2628.779,"body":"companies might make you do. And"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2628.779,"endTime":2631.599,"body":"there's all sorts of books you"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2628.779,"endTime":2631.599,"body":"can buy and test you can take on"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2631.599,"endTime":2636.729,"body":"your own. And a lot of it seems"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2631.599,"endTime":2636.729,"body":"kind of silly. But I do think"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2636.729,"endTime":2640.089,"body":"that there's some value in"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2636.729,"endTime":2640.089,"body":"understanding how you think and"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2640.089,"endTime":2646.389,"body":"how your brain works. I know"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2640.089,"endTime":2646.389,"body":"personally, that I best absorb."},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2646.419,"endTime":2651.549,"body":"And I could do my most creative"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2646.419,"endTime":2651.549,"body":"thinking, when I am drawing it"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2651.549,"endTime":2655.029,"body":"out, right. I'm an engineer, so"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2651.549,"endTime":2655.029,"body":"I have to have to draw up"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2655.029,"endTime":2658.899,"body":"sketches on napkins or on any"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2655.029,"endTime":2658.899,"body":"random paper that I have, I like"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2658.899,"endTime":2662.499,"body":"to use envelopes. Because it's"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2658.899,"endTime":2662.499,"body":"just you get them so many of"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2662.499,"endTime":2666.639,"body":"them in the mail, to sketch up"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2662.499,"endTime":2666.639,"body":"ideas. As we're having a"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2666.639,"endTime":2669.699,"body":"conversation, I can throw it"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2666.639,"endTime":2669.699,"body":"away later. I don't need it. I'm"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2669.699,"endTime":2672.549,"body":"not doing it for retention"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2669.699,"endTime":2672.549,"body":"purposes, to keep the piece of"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2672.549,"endTime":2676.749,"body":"paper. But if I don't sketch it"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2672.549,"endTime":2676.749,"body":"out, if I don't draw a workflow"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2676.749,"endTime":2679.419,"body":"diagram, or sketch up some"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2676.749,"endTime":2679.419,"body":"pictures and applies to"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2679.419,"endTime":2683.709,"body":"anything, it applies to thinking"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2679.419,"endTime":2683.709,"body":"through human resource aspects"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2683.739,"endTime":2686.769,"body":"of what you're doing thinking"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2683.739,"endTime":2686.769,"body":"through organizational design,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2687.249,"endTime":2690.639,"body":"thinking through I'm what this"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2687.249,"endTime":2690.639,"body":"many mechanical engineers, this"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2690.639,"endTime":2694.119,"body":"many electrical engineers, or if"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2690.639,"endTime":2694.119,"body":"you're thinking through a design"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2694.119,"endTime":2696.7889999999998,"body":"itself to say, Okay, well, how"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2694.119,"endTime":2696.7889999999998,"body":"would I, you know, what are"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2696.7889999999998,"endTime":2699.909,"body":"different ways for me to make"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2696.7889999999998,"endTime":2699.909,"body":"this to deliver the"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2699.909,"endTime":2703.719,"body":"functionality that's been asked"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2699.909,"endTime":2703.719,"body":"of me as a design engineer, I"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2703.719,"endTime":2708.0389999999998,"body":"find that sketching those out"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2703.719,"endTime":2708.0389999999998,"body":"and drawing pictures allows me"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2708.0389999999998,"endTime":2713.619,"body":"to think much more clearly and"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2708.0389999999998,"endTime":2713.619,"body":"much more precisely, and stay"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2713.619,"endTime":2718.779,"body":"focused on that topic. And then"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2713.619,"endTime":2718.779,"body":"I can throw it away. And I can"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2718.779,"endTime":2722.139,"body":"remember it, I retain it. But if"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2718.779,"endTime":2722.139,"body":"I don't sketch it out, or if I"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2722.139,"endTime":2727.209,"body":"don't doodle or draw those"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2722.139,"endTime":2727.209,"body":"pieces, it's much harder for me"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2727.209,"endTime":2729.639,"body":"to retain that information. If"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2727.209,"endTime":2729.639,"body":"you ask me about it a week or"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2729.639,"endTime":2734.319,"body":"two later. If I didn't do that,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2729.639,"endTime":2734.319,"body":"at that activity, it's a little"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2734.319,"endTime":2739.0589999999997,"body":"bit harder for me to reengage"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2734.319,"endTime":2739.0589999999997,"body":"the neurons and get them firing"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2739.239,"endTime":2743.409,"body":"in in the right way to bring me"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2739.239,"endTime":2743.409,"body":"back to that topic. So I think"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2743.439,"endTime":2746.2889999999998,"body":"understanding kind of how your"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2743.439,"endTime":2746.2889999999998,"body":"brain works and knowing like in"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2746.2889999999998,"endTime":2751.299,"body":"my case, I'm a very visual"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2746.2889999999998,"endTime":2751.299,"body":"thinker. And so I can visualize"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2751.299,"endTime":2754.5389999999998,"body":"things three dimensionally,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2751.299,"endTime":2754.5389999999998,"body":"which makes it good for"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2754.5389999999998,"endTime":2757.629,"body":"mechanical engineering purposes."},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2754.5389999999998,"endTime":2757.629,"body":"But for everything else that I"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2757.629,"endTime":2761.649,"body":"do. I'll give you a really good"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2757.629,"endTime":2761.649,"body":"point. I'm looking at it right"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2761.649,"endTime":2767.649,"body":"now in my office. I cover my"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2761.649,"endTime":2767.649,"body":"walls with dry erase boards. And"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2767.709,"endTime":2771.429,"body":"I do that not because I like to"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2767.709,"endTime":2771.429,"body":"take a lot of notes and leave"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2771.819,"endTime":2775.0589999999997,"body":"charts up there for myself to be"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2771.819,"endTime":2775.0589999999997,"body":"able to follow and check things"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2775.0589999999997,"endTime":2779.199,"body":"off. I do it because as I'm"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2775.0589999999997,"endTime":2779.199,"body":"talking me drawing the picture"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2779.199,"endTime":2782.979,"body":"thinking through even just basic"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2779.199,"endTime":2782.979,"body":"mind maps to say okay, well this"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2782.979,"endTime":2788.259,"body":"is this is the client This is Is"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2782.979,"endTime":2788.259,"body":"aspects of their of their"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2788.259,"endTime":2793.749,"body":"downstream aspirations. And so"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2788.259,"endTime":2793.749,"body":"what might be involved in"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2793.749,"endTime":2796.8089999999997,"body":"helping them get there, me"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2793.749,"endTime":2796.8089999999997,"body":"drawing the picture really"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2796.8089999999997,"endTime":2801.369,"body":"allows me to think very clearly"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2796.8089999999997,"endTime":2801.369,"body":"about it and look for those very"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2801.369,"endTime":2806.259,"body":"subtle idiosyncrasies that might"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2801.369,"endTime":2806.259,"body":"connect to disparate parts of"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2806.259,"endTime":2809.529,"body":"the system diagram. So that's,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2809.799,"endTime":2811.209,"body":"I think that's a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2809.799,"endTime":2811.209,"body":"huge point, one"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2811.21,"endTime":2814.5099999999998,"body":"trick that I've"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2811.21,"endTime":2814.5099999999998,"body":"learned. But I want to make sure"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2814.5099999999998,"endTime":2817.27,"body":"that it's a, it's clear that"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2814.5099999999998,"endTime":2817.27,"body":"that doesn't work for everyone."},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2817.39,"endTime":2821.14,"body":"Right, the importance is me"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2817.39,"endTime":2821.14,"body":"eventually learning that I was a"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2821.14,"endTime":2826.36,"body":"visual thinker, and and then"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2821.14,"endTime":2826.36,"body":"taking full advantage of that."},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2827.98,"endTime":2830.17,"body":"That's my trick. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2830.2,"endTime":2833.5,"body":"yeah, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2830.2,"endTime":2833.5,"body":"Learning how you think I think"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2833.5,"endTime":2836.65,"body":"is such a critical skill, and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2833.5,"endTime":2836.65,"body":"really kind of hard actually, to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2836.65,"endTime":2841.66,"body":"figure that out. For myself,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2836.65,"endTime":2841.66,"body":"I've learned that the ideas that"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2841.66,"endTime":2846.7,"body":"I come up with, when I'm in a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2841.66,"endTime":2846.7,"body":"quiet room, by myself are"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2846.7,"endTime":2851.17,"body":"generally better than the ideas"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2846.7,"endTime":2851.17,"body":"I come up with when I'm in a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2851.17,"endTime":2854.11,"body":"group setting for whatever"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2851.17,"endTime":2854.11,"body":"reason. That's something I've"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2854.11,"endTime":2858.04,"body":"learned about myself. So I agree"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2854.11,"endTime":2858.04,"body":"100%, it's so important to learn"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2858.04,"endTime":2860.5,"body":"how you think and how your mind"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2858.04,"endTime":2860.5,"body":"works,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2860.71,"endTime":2863.7999999999997,"body":"I can give you"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2860.71,"endTime":2863.7999999999997,"body":"another example of that. One of"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2863.7999999999997,"endTime":2869.17,"body":"my children the youngest, they"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2863.7999999999997,"endTime":2869.17,"body":"do their best thinking when"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2869.17,"endTime":2873.91,"body":"they're writing. So if you put"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2869.17,"endTime":2873.91,"body":"paper and pencil in front of"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2873.91,"endTime":2877.7799999999997,"body":"them, they can just, they can"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2873.91,"endTime":2877.7799999999997,"body":"just Hall and just start"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2877.7799999999997,"endTime":2882.43,"body":"generating page after page after"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2877.7799999999997,"endTime":2882.43,"body":"page of written information. And"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2882.43,"endTime":2885.58,"body":"for them, it's that same act of"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2882.43,"endTime":2885.58,"body":"putting the pencil to the paper"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2885.58,"endTime":2888.91,"body":"and writing sentences and just"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2885.58,"endTime":2888.91,"body":"writing out kind of a narrative"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2889.15,"endTime":2892.2999999999997,"body":"that allows them to really"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2889.15,"endTime":2892.2999999999997,"body":"retain and get deep into the"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2892.2999999999997,"endTime":2895.7799999999997,"body":"thought. Whereas if you had the"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2892.2999999999997,"endTime":2895.7799999999997,"body":"same conversation with them,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2896.62,"endTime":2899.77,"body":"their retention isn't quite"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2896.62,"endTime":2899.77,"body":"there. So for them, they're you"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2899.77,"endTime":2903.2799999999997,"body":"know, they learn and they"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2899.77,"endTime":2903.2799999999997,"body":"process by writing, I learned"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2903.2799999999997,"endTime":2907.0,"body":"and process by drawing sounds"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2903.2799999999997,"endTime":2907.0,"body":"like you do your best thinking"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2907.0,"endTime":2910.9,"body":"and your best processing, when"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2907.0,"endTime":2910.9,"body":"you're quiet and some solitude"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2910.9,"endTime":2914.0499999999997,"body":"and some empty space to be able"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2910.9,"endTime":2914.0499999999997,"body":"to fill with your own things,"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2914.32,"endTime":2918.16,"body":"your own thoughts. I think"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2914.32,"endTime":2918.16,"body":"that's a it's a really important"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2918.16,"endTime":2921.2799999999997,"body":"skill that a lot of engineers"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2918.16,"endTime":2921.2799999999997,"body":"would benefit from better"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2921.2799999999997,"endTime":2922.87,"body":"understanding. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2922.9,"endTime":2925.15,"body":"I had a roommate"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2922.9,"endTime":2925.15,"body":"in college who would always turn"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2925.15,"endTime":2928.15,"body":"music on when he was going to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2925.15,"endTime":2928.15,"body":"sleep. And it drove me crazy,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2928.15,"endTime":2930.97,"body":"because I just it the music"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2928.15,"endTime":2930.97,"body":"would not allow me to go to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2930.97,"endTime":2935.77,"body":"sleep I need. I crave quiet,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2930.97,"endTime":2935.77,"body":"which is kind of the opposite of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2935.77,"endTime":2938.0499999999997,"body":"what you get when you have three"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2935.77,"endTime":2938.0499999999997,"body":"small children. But that's a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2938.0499999999997,"endTime":2943.75,"body":"story for another time. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2938.0499999999997,"endTime":2943.75,"body":"Devin, how can people get ahold"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2943.75,"endTime":2943.81,"body":"of"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2943.81,"endTime":2946.54,"body":"you? Well, the"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2943.81,"endTime":2946.54,"body":"easiest way to get ahold of me"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2946.54,"endTime":2953.02,"body":"is through email. And that's"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2946.54,"endTime":2953.02,"body":"DCC. At product dot Dev, PR o"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2953.02,"endTime":2958.0,"body":"DCT, dot Dev, you can also go to"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2953.02,"endTime":2958.0,"body":"product dot product optout, the"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2958.0,"endTime":2961.27,"body":"website and there's a Contact Me"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2958.0,"endTime":2961.27,"body":"page there, maybe someday there"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2961.27,"endTime":2964.93,"body":"might be more, but for right"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2961.27,"endTime":2964.93,"body":"now, there's just a contact. And"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2964.93,"endTime":2968.62,"body":"you can also go to my my"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2964.93,"endTime":2968.62,"body":"personal kind of online"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2968.98,"endTime":2974.2,"body":"presence, which is Devin C"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2968.98,"endTime":2974.2,"body":"campbell.com. And that goes into"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2974.2,"endTime":2977.41,"body":"a lot more depth about me, not"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2974.2,"endTime":2977.41,"body":"necessarily product, but me and"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2978.2799999999997,"endTime":2982.33,"body":"the many different projects that"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2978.2799999999997,"endTime":2982.33,"body":"I'm involved with right now. And"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2982.33,"endTime":2986.2599999999998,"body":"kind of give you a little bit of"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2982.33,"endTime":2986.2599999999998,"body":"a of a character of who I am and"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2986.2599999999998,"endTime":2990.67,"body":"what I focus on, which is what"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2986.2599999999998,"endTime":2990.67,"body":"we've tried to build into how we"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2990.7,"endTime":2993.61,"body":"designed and developed product"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":2990.7,"endTime":2993.61,"body":"as a as an advisory firm."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2993.79,"endTime":2996.19,"body":"Terrific,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2993.79,"endTime":2996.19,"body":"terrific. Thank you for creating"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2996.19,"endTime":3000.42,"body":"that advisory for my I said"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2996.19,"endTime":3000.42,"body":"consultancy, and my apologies,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":3000.45,"endTime":3004.5299999999997,"body":"advisory firm mentors and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":3000.45,"endTime":3004.5299999999997,"body":"coaches. Thanks. Yeah. All"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":3004.5299999999997,"endTime":3007.74,"body":"right. Well, Devin, I really"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":3004.5299999999997,"endTime":3007.74,"body":"appreciate you spending some"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":3007.74,"endTime":3010.68,"body":"time and just running us through"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":3007.74,"endTime":3010.68,"body":"your background and your history"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":3010.68,"endTime":3013.65,"body":"showing sharing some insight and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":3010.68,"endTime":3013.65,"body":"wisdom with us. So thank you so"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":3013.65,"endTime":3013.92,"body":"much."},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":3014.279,"endTime":3017.069,"body":"I'm happy to"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":3014.279,"endTime":3017.069,"body":"have been able to have this"},{"speaker":"Devon Campbell","startTime":3017.069,"endTime":3017.549,"body":"opportunity."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":3020.82,"endTime":3024.15,"body":"I'm Aaron Moncure,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":3020.82,"endTime":3024.15,"body":"founder of pipeline design and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":3024.15,"endTime":3027.33,"body":"engineering. If you liked what"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":3024.15,"endTime":3027.33,"body":"you heard today, please leave us"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":3027.33,"endTime":3030.2999999999997,"body":"a positive review. It really"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":3027.33,"endTime":3030.2999999999997,"body":"helps other people find the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":3030.2999999999997,"endTime":3033.66,"body":"show. To learn how your"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":3030.2999999999997,"endTime":3033.66,"body":"engineering team can leverage"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":3033.69,"endTime":3037.23,"body":"our team's expertise in"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":3033.69,"endTime":3037.23,"body":"developing turnkey custom test"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":3037.23,"endTime":3041.73,"body":"fixtures, automated equipment"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":3037.23,"endTime":3041.73,"body":"and product design, visit us at"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":3041.97,"endTime":3046.29,"body":"test fixture design.com Thanks"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":3041.97,"endTime":3046.29,"body":"for listening"}]}