{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":0.57,"endTime":3.06,"body":"Hey everyone,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":0.57,"endTime":3.06,"body":"we're looking to add a new"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":3.06,"endTime":6.45,"body":"member to our engineering team."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":3.06,"endTime":6.45,"body":"Ideally, we're looking for a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":6.45,"endTime":10.2,"body":"senior level mechanical design"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":6.45,"endTime":10.2,"body":"engineer in the Phoenix area,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":10.44,"endTime":13.86,"body":"who has experienced designing"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":10.44,"endTime":13.86,"body":"custom automated machines,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":13.95,"endTime":18.57,"body":"equipment, and test fixtures."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":13.95,"endTime":18.57,"body":"Also, having working experience"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":18.57,"endTime":22.77,"body":"with controls and system"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":18.57,"endTime":22.77,"body":"integration is a plus, if you'd"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":22.77,"endTime":28.53,"body":"like to apply or suggest"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":22.77,"endTime":28.53,"body":"Someone, please email us at"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":28.56,"endTime":30.48,"body":"info@testfixturedesign.com."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":32.34,"endTime":36.21,"body":"The Being An Engineer podcast is"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":32.34,"endTime":36.21,"body":"a repository for industry"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":36.21,"endTime":39.48,"body":"knowledge and a tool through"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":36.21,"endTime":39.48,"body":"which engineers learn about and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":39.48,"endTime":43.71,"body":"connect with relevant companies,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":39.48,"endTime":43.71,"body":"technologies, people resources"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":43.71,"endTime":46.89,"body":"and opportunities. Enjoy the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":43.71,"endTime":46.89,"body":"show."},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":47.73,"endTime":50.43,"body":"Whenever you get"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":47.73,"endTime":50.43,"body":"to a certain level of"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":50.43,"endTime":52.95,"body":"understanding a problem, and"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":50.43,"endTime":52.95,"body":"when you think you understand"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":52.95,"endTime":57.12,"body":"it, well, you're probably only"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":52.95,"endTime":57.12,"body":"30% to the level of"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":57.12,"endTime":59.91,"body":"understanding that you need to"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":57.12,"endTime":59.91,"body":"be able to build a product to"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":59.91,"endTime":63.78,"body":"solve the problem. And and what"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":59.91,"endTime":63.78,"body":"I've come to now believe is that"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":63.81,"endTime":67.95,"body":"if you don't understand the"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":63.81,"endTime":67.95,"body":"problem at an expert level, and"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":67.98,"endTime":71.19,"body":"to that end, I mean better than"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":67.98,"endTime":71.19,"body":"the users understand the"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":71.19,"endTime":75.81,"body":"problem, then you probably don't"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":71.19,"endTime":75.81,"body":"have much of a hope of building"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":75.81,"endTime":79.05,"body":"a product that is going to solve"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":75.81,"endTime":79.05,"body":"the problem in a valuable,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":79.05,"endTime":80.19,"body":"meaningful way for them."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":93.56,"endTime":95.42,"body":"Hello, and welcome"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":93.56,"endTime":95.42,"body":"to the Being An Engineer"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":95.42,"endTime":99.2,"body":"podcast. Our guest today is Ryan"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":95.42,"endTime":99.2,"body":"Frederick, who started his"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":99.2,"endTime":103.13,"body":"career as a software developer"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":99.2,"endTime":103.13,"body":"and describes himself as a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":103.13,"endTime":106.61,"body":"product person at heart. He"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":103.13,"endTime":106.61,"body":"started and grown several"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":106.61,"endTime":109.28,"body":"software and service companies"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":106.61,"endTime":109.28,"body":"today to helping them advance"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":109.28,"endTime":113.81,"body":"from inception, to viability to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":109.28,"endTime":113.81,"body":"sustainability. I've been"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":113.81,"endTime":116.96,"body":"excited to talk with Ryan,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":113.81,"endTime":116.96,"body":"because he is a little bit"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":116.96,"endTime":120.08,"body":"different than our typical"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":116.96,"endTime":120.08,"body":"engineering guest. He certainly"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":120.08,"endTime":121.88,"body":"works in the world of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":120.08,"endTime":121.88,"body":"technology, but it's not an"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":121.88,"endTime":124.76,"body":"engineer himself. And as far as"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":121.88,"endTime":124.76,"body":"I know, it doesn't work directly"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":124.76,"endTime":128.12,"body":"with engineers, either. However,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":124.76,"endTime":128.12,"body":"he does have deep experience,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":128.36,"endTime":132.89,"body":"working with teams, and driving"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":128.36,"endTime":132.89,"body":"success within teams that are"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":132.89,"endTime":136.07,"body":"developing products and I think"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":132.89,"endTime":136.07,"body":"we can all relate to that. So"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":136.07,"endTime":139.04,"body":"with that, Ryan, welcome to the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":136.07,"endTime":139.04,"body":"podcast. And thank you so much"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":139.04,"endTime":139.88,"body":"for joining us."},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":140.06,"endTime":141.05,"body":"Aaron, good to"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":140.06,"endTime":141.05,"body":"be with you."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":141.71,"endTime":144.47,"body":"So let's start off"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":141.71,"endTime":144.47,"body":"by maybe telling the listeners a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":144.47,"endTime":148.52,"body":"little bit about who you are,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":144.47,"endTime":148.52,"body":"what you do now, and kind of how"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":148.52,"endTime":150.41,"body":"you got to where you are today."},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":151.23,"endTime":156.66,"body":"Yeah, it's been"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":151.23,"endTime":156.66,"body":"a serendipitous road. I never"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":157.05,"endTime":160.83,"body":"wanted to be a big company"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":157.05,"endTime":160.83,"body":"person. So I knew the the"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":160.86,"endTime":164.28,"body":"entrepreneurial journey was"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":160.86,"endTime":164.28,"body":"probably more in the offing for"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":164.28,"endTime":168.99,"body":"me. And you know, in when that's"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":164.28,"endTime":168.99,"body":"the case, it's almost always"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":168.99,"endTime":171.75,"body":"more opportunistic than"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":168.99,"endTime":171.75,"body":"strategic, right, because you"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":171.75,"endTime":174.87,"body":"end up you know, getting access"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":171.75,"endTime":174.87,"body":"to or becoming aware of a"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":174.87,"endTime":177.81,"body":"problem and then trying to build"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":174.87,"endTime":177.81,"body":"the product to solve it. And"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":177.81,"endTime":181.95,"body":"then you meet people like"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":177.81,"endTime":181.95,"body":"investors and, and others an"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":181.95,"endTime":186.84,"body":"ecosystem that then support you"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":181.95,"endTime":186.84,"body":"in that in that arena. And then"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":186.84,"endTime":189.66,"body":"it opens up other, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":186.84,"endTime":189.66,"body":"options, you know, to work on"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":189.66,"endTime":193.65,"body":"other problems. And so been"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":189.66,"endTime":193.65,"body":"fortunate from that perspective."},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":194.49,"endTime":200.37,"body":"And then nine years ago, I"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":194.49,"endTime":200.37,"body":"joined AWH as a principal. And"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":200.43,"endTime":203.31,"body":"this is really my first step"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":200.43,"endTime":203.31,"body":"into..."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":203.31,"endTime":204.81,"body":"What is AWH?"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":204.84,"endTime":207.6,"body":"Yeah, we're a"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":204.84,"endTime":207.6,"body":"digital product and data"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":207.6,"endTime":212.19,"body":"consulting firm. So we help"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":207.6,"endTime":212.19,"body":"clients build net new software"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":212.19,"endTime":216.75,"body":"products, and then work to solve"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":212.19,"endTime":216.75,"body":"some data challenges sometimes,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":216.99,"endTime":220.92,"body":"while we're building the net new"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":216.99,"endTime":220.92,"body":"software product, and sometimes"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":220.92,"endTime":224.22,"body":"we work on day to day challenges"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":220.92,"endTime":224.22,"body":"not associated to the products"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":224.22,"endTime":224.88,"body":"that we're building."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":226.59,"endTime":228.99,"body":"Alright, I'm"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":226.59,"endTime":228.99,"body":"probably gonna stop you like way"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":228.99,"endTime":231.42,"body":"too often here, because there"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":228.99,"endTime":231.42,"body":"are terms I'm not familiar with"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":231.42,"endTime":233.28,"body":"net new, what does that mean?"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":233.36,"endTime":236.21,"body":"Yeah, it's just"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":233.36,"endTime":236.21,"body":"my way of because there are lots"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":236.21,"endTime":239.54,"body":"of software products that"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":236.21,"endTime":239.54,"body":"because the software product has"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":239.54,"endTime":245.27,"body":"never done, right. And so it net"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":239.54,"endTime":245.27,"body":"new for us means that the"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":245.27,"endTime":248.39,"body":"product doesn't currently exist,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":245.27,"endTime":248.39,"body":"and we're building maybe a"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":248.39,"endTime":252.11,"body":"better way to phrase it moving"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":248.39,"endTime":252.11,"body":"forward is we often get engaged"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":252.11,"endTime":254.93,"body":"by our clients to build version"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":252.11,"endTime":254.93,"body":"one of a product."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":255.41,"endTime":256.19,"body":"Got it."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":257.48,"endTime":259.07,"body":"The net new is just version one."},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":259.34,"endTime":262.79,"body":"Yep, version"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":259.34,"endTime":262.79,"body":"one. And, and so we, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":262.79,"endTime":266.66,"body":"we have a team of designers and"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":262.79,"endTime":266.66,"body":"engineers and DevOps people and"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":266.66,"endTime":269.39,"body":"QA people, right, that engage"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":266.66,"endTime":269.39,"body":"with clients to build those,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":269.63,"endTime":274.01,"body":"those version one products,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":269.63,"endTime":274.01,"body":"sometimes we stay in, in place"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":274.01,"endTime":278.36,"body":"to help, you know, build version"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":274.01,"endTime":278.36,"body":"two and version three, etc. But,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":278.39,"endTime":283.7,"body":"you know, our gig is really to"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":278.39,"endTime":283.7,"body":"take this murky vision of how"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":283.7,"endTime":286.19,"body":"they want to approach solving a"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":283.7,"endTime":286.19,"body":"problem for their bit their,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":286.52,"endTime":290.63,"body":"their business and then building"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":286.52,"endTime":290.63,"body":"a software product to hopefully"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":290.66,"endTime":291.56,"body":"solve that problem."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":293.51,"endTime":296.18,"body":"Great, and you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":293.51,"endTime":296.18,"body":"started off yourself as a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":296.18,"endTime":297.17,"body":"developer, right?"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":297.3,"endTime":300.9,"body":"I did. I"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":297.3,"endTime":300.9,"body":"originally started learning how"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":300.9,"endTime":307.23,"body":"to code I went to DeBry out of"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":300.9,"endTime":307.23,"body":"high school, and started to"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":307.23,"endTime":311.01,"body":"learn how to code there and you"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":307.23,"endTime":311.01,"body":"know, it'll date myself. But you"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":311.01,"endTime":315.63,"body":"know, we were studying Pascal"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":311.01,"endTime":315.63,"body":"and COBOL. And you know, lots of"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":315.63,"endTime":319.74,"body":"languages that are not very"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":315.63,"endTime":319.74,"body":"widely used anymore. And then,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":319.86,"endTime":323.31,"body":"so I learned just enough to sort"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":319.86,"endTime":323.31,"body":"of be dangerous as a developer."},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":324.27,"endTime":328.38,"body":"And then the first company that"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":324.27,"endTime":328.38,"body":"I actually joined, that turned"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":328.38,"endTime":331.29,"body":"out to be a startup, we just"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":328.38,"endTime":331.29,"body":"didn't know that that's what we"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":331.29,"endTime":334.32,"body":"should call ourselves at the"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":331.29,"endTime":334.32,"body":"time. I gravitated toward the"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":334.32,"endTime":339.6,"body":"business side. And so I've been"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":334.32,"endTime":339.6,"body":"part of starting six software"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":339.6,"endTime":344.34,"body":"companies, it in most cases"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":339.6,"endTime":344.34,"body":"leading the product development,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":344.34,"endTime":347.82,"body":"but then also engaged on the"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":344.34,"endTime":347.82,"body":"sales side and the marketing"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":347.82,"endTime":351.15,"body":"side to to figure out, okay,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":347.82,"endTime":351.15,"body":"what are we building? How are we"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":351.15,"endTime":353.79,"body":"will building it for what's the"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":351.15,"endTime":353.79,"body":"right positioning, what's the"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":353.79,"endTime":361.23,"body":"right messaging, etc. So a big"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":353.79,"endTime":361.23,"body":"piece of, you know, what I think"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":361.23,"endTime":367.68,"body":"about a lot is, you know, not"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":361.23,"endTime":367.68,"body":"how, you know, we we make zeros"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":367.68,"endTime":371.07,"body":"and ones do what we need, you"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":367.68,"endTime":371.07,"body":"know, the product to do, but how"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":371.07,"endTime":374.16,"body":"do we ensure that we're building"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":371.07,"endTime":374.16,"body":"the right thing, and we're doing"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":374.16,"endTime":378.03,"body":"it in the simplest, most elegant"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":374.16,"endTime":378.03,"body":"way possible, so that we can"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":378.03,"endTime":382.77,"body":"drive as much value to the users"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":378.03,"endTime":382.77,"body":"as possible, especially given"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":382.77,"endTime":385.02,"body":"the fact that we're often"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":382.77,"endTime":385.02,"body":"building version one of"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":385.02,"endTime":389.1,"body":"products. So it's the first time"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":385.02,"endTime":389.1,"body":"that users are going to engage"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":389.1,"endTime":393.27,"body":"with the product. And if we"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":389.1,"endTime":393.27,"body":"don't get that initial user"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":393.27,"endTime":397.47,"body":"experience, and that initial"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":393.27,"endTime":397.47,"body":"onboarding right, the fact that"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":397.47,"endTime":401.01,"body":"it's incredibly scalable, and"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":397.47,"endTime":401.01,"body":"the code is powerful and robust,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":401.19,"endTime":406.5,"body":"sort of doesn't matter. Version"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":401.19,"endTime":406.5,"body":"one of products often is about"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":406.71,"endTime":409.59,"body":"how well do you understand the"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":406.71,"endTime":409.59,"body":"problem? And how simply are you"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":409.59,"endTime":410.7,"body":"solving the problem?"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":411.119,"endTime":413.189,"body":"So I think that's"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":411.119,"endTime":413.189,"body":"a big point, how well do you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":413.189,"endTime":417.989,"body":"understand the problem, right?"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":413.189,"endTime":417.989,"body":"It's such a simple idea, but has"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":417.989,"endTime":420.899,"body":"huge ramifications down the road"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":417.989,"endTime":420.899,"body":"as you're developing your"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":420.899,"endTime":425.009,"body":"product? How does your team go"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":420.899,"endTime":425.009,"body":"about ensuring that everyone"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":425.009,"endTime":428.339,"body":"really truly understands the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":425.009,"endTime":428.339,"body":"problem that they're solving?"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":429.23,"endTime":433.19,"body":"Yeah, it is."},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":429.23,"endTime":433.19,"body":"It's way more time and energy"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":433.19,"endTime":438.8,"body":"investment than anybody wants it"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":433.19,"endTime":438.8,"body":"to be. Because we are wired and"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":438.8,"endTime":443.75,"body":"even as, as professionals in the"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":438.8,"endTime":443.75,"body":"space, we're innately wired as"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":443.75,"endTime":450.11,"body":"humans to want to begin to build"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":443.75,"endTime":450.11,"body":"and to solve as soon as somebody"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":450.11,"endTime":454.7,"body":"presents us with a problem. And"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":450.11,"endTime":454.7,"body":"so that, what you have to do is"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":454.7,"endTime":458.0,"body":"you sort of have to hold back"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":454.7,"endTime":458.0,"body":"and you have to reserve that"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":458.0,"endTime":463.22,"body":"desire to want to solve and"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":458.0,"endTime":463.22,"body":"build too early. And so often"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":463.22,"endTime":468.32,"body":"what what we do in working with"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":463.22,"endTime":468.32,"body":"clients is, we will make them"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":469.25,"endTime":476.06,"body":"initially almost defend the"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":469.25,"endTime":476.06,"body":"problem and to sell us on why"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":476.06,"endTime":479.39,"body":"this problem is worth working"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":476.06,"endTime":479.39,"body":"on, and why this problem is"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":479.39,"endTime":483.92,"body":"worth building a product around."},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":479.39,"endTime":483.92,"body":"So we often sometimes almost act"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":483.92,"endTime":489.29,"body":"like investors with with our"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":483.92,"endTime":489.29,"body":"clients, because we've got"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":489.32,"endTime":491.72,"body":"opportunities to build lots of"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":489.32,"endTime":491.72,"body":"different products with lots of"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":491.72,"endTime":496.73,"body":"different clients. And we want"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":491.72,"endTime":496.73,"body":"to work on the ones that are the"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":496.73,"endTime":499.91,"body":"most interesting, and the ones"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":496.73,"endTime":499.91,"body":"that are the most impactful"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":499.97,"endTime":504.17,"body":"ultimately, and, and so when we"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":499.97,"endTime":504.17,"body":"get into it, we start really"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":504.17,"endTime":508.07,"body":"just asking the client and then"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":504.17,"endTime":508.07,"body":"as we're digging into the"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":508.07,"endTime":514.07,"body":"problem ourselves, it's just a"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":508.07,"endTime":514.07,"body":"series of of 'why's' right? Why"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":514.07,"endTime":517.43,"body":"does this matter? Why does"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":514.07,"endTime":517.43,"body":"anyone care? Who's this, you"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":517.43,"endTime":525.05,"body":"know, who's this gonna help,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":517.43,"endTime":525.05,"body":"right? And figuring out that"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":525.11,"endTime":528.38,"body":"whenever you get to a certain"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":525.11,"endTime":528.38,"body":"level of understanding a"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":528.38,"endTime":533.06,"body":"problem, you're probably still"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":528.38,"endTime":533.06,"body":"only 30. When you think you"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":533.06,"endTime":537.56,"body":"understand it, well, you're"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":533.06,"endTime":537.56,"body":"probably only 30% to the level"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":537.56,"endTime":540.47,"body":"of understanding that you need"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":537.56,"endTime":540.47,"body":"to be able to build a product to"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":540.47,"endTime":544.76,"body":"solve the problem. And and what"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":540.47,"endTime":544.76,"body":"I've come to now believe is that"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":544.79,"endTime":549.77,"body":"if you don't understand the"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":544.79,"endTime":549.77,"body":"problem at an expert level, and"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":549.8,"endTime":553.01,"body":"to that end, I mean, better than"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":549.8,"endTime":553.01,"body":"the users understand the"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":553.01,"endTime":557.63,"body":"problem, then you probably don't"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":553.01,"endTime":557.63,"body":"have much of a hope of building"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":557.63,"endTime":560.87,"body":"a product that is going to solve"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":557.63,"endTime":560.87,"body":"the problem in a valuable,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":560.87,"endTime":564.62,"body":"meaningful way for them. So I"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":560.87,"endTime":564.62,"body":"think you've got to get to the"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":564.62,"endTime":567.86,"body":"problem, you've got to evolve to"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":564.62,"endTime":567.86,"body":"the point of understanding the"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":567.86,"endTime":569.33,"body":"problem at an expert level."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":569.97,"endTime":572.28,"body":"I love the way you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":569.97,"endTime":572.28,"body":"put that you you have the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":572.28,"endTime":577.53,"body":"customer defend why the problem"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":572.28,"endTime":577.53,"body":"is worth solving that's kind of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":577.53,"endTime":579.81,"body":"flips the paradigm on its head a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":577.53,"endTime":579.81,"body":"little bit, right? Because"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":579.81,"endTime":583.5,"body":"typically, as the developers as"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":579.81,"endTime":583.5,"body":"the team that's hired to solve"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":583.5,"endTime":587.37,"body":"the problem. You want to jump in"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":583.5,"endTime":587.37,"body":"and just assume that the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":587.37,"endTime":591.21,"body":"problems we're solving almost"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":587.37,"endTime":591.21,"body":"find reasons why this problem is"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":591.21,"endTime":593.55,"body":"worth solving. Right? Because"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":591.21,"endTime":593.55,"body":"you want to have a job, but but"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":593.55,"endTime":597.03,"body":"you're saying flip that paradigm"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":593.55,"endTime":597.03,"body":"on its head and ask the customer"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":597.03,"endTime":600.27,"body":"and help me understand why is it"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":597.03,"endTime":600.27,"body":"really worth solving. This"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":600.27,"endTime":604.02,"body":"problem what what need is going"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":600.27,"endTime":604.02,"body":"to solve? That's a really great"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":604.02,"endTime":607.53,"body":"way to think about it, I think."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":604.02,"endTime":607.53,"body":"So you started off as a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":607.53,"endTime":610.14,"body":"developer and eventually made"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":607.53,"endTime":610.14,"body":"your way into sales and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":610.14,"endTime":613.59,"body":"marketing and business"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":610.14,"endTime":613.59,"body":"development? Why what do you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":613.59,"endTime":616.86,"body":"think you became more interested"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":613.59,"endTime":616.86,"body":"in the business side of things,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":616.89,"endTime":620.1,"body":"then purely just the technical"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":616.89,"endTime":620.1,"body":"development side of things?"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":620.54,"endTime":624.17,"body":"Yeah, I think"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":620.54,"endTime":624.17,"body":"it's because of the people and"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":624.17,"endTime":628.13,"body":"the people aspects of it."},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":624.17,"endTime":628.13,"body":"Because I think I hit a"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":628.13,"endTime":633.68,"body":"realization at some point that"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":628.13,"endTime":633.68,"body":"anything can get built. So it's"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":633.68,"endTime":637.67,"body":"not you know, whether something"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":633.68,"endTime":637.67,"body":"can get built or how it gets"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":637.67,"endTime":643.04,"body":"built, or how well it gets"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":637.67,"endTime":643.04,"body":"built? It is really, why is it"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":643.04,"endTime":646.28,"body":"getting built? Who's going to"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":643.04,"endTime":646.28,"body":"use it? Who's going to value it?"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":647.12,"endTime":651.35,"body":"And what's the, what's the"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":647.12,"endTime":651.35,"body":"meaning and purpose of what's"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":651.35,"endTime":656.6,"body":"getting built? And even back"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":651.35,"endTime":656.6,"body":"when, when I was a developer,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":656.63,"endTime":660.05,"body":"you know, I would look at it and"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":656.63,"endTime":660.05,"body":"say, Oh, you know, we don't"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":660.05,"endTime":664.7,"body":"really we were over software in"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":660.05,"endTime":664.7,"body":"in the early 90s, when I was,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":664.73,"endTime":667.43,"body":"you know, when I was a"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":664.73,"endTime":667.43,"body":"developer, or certainly over"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":667.43,"endTime":671.18,"body":"software now, right? There's"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":667.43,"endTime":671.18,"body":"lots of software and digital"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":671.18,"endTime":675.53,"body":"products that get built, that"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":671.18,"endTime":675.53,"body":"ended up in a in a digital"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":675.53,"endTime":679.67,"body":"product graveyard, right, that"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":675.53,"endTime":679.67,"body":"they never quite met the"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":679.67,"endTime":683.24,"body":"threshold of being successful"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":679.67,"endTime":683.24,"body":"and being useful and being that"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":683.24,"endTime":687.86,"body":"meaningful. And lots of code got"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":683.24,"endTime":687.86,"body":"written, and lots of time got"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":687.86,"endTime":693.14,"body":"invested in these products. That"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":687.86,"endTime":693.14,"body":"didn't go anywhere. So I became"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":693.14,"endTime":698.57,"body":"more interested in well, why is"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":693.14,"endTime":698.57,"body":"that? Right, than the actual"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":698.6,"endTime":701.81,"body":"coding of the products? Because"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":698.6,"endTime":701.81,"body":"it became more interesting to me"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":701.84,"endTime":706.7,"body":"of, okay, this product that's"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":701.84,"endTime":706.7,"body":"coded, well designed, well, is"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":706.7,"endTime":710.57,"body":"not succeeding, and it's not"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":706.7,"endTime":710.57,"body":"going anywhere. Well, what are"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":710.57,"endTime":714.95,"body":"the problems associated to that"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":710.57,"endTime":714.95,"body":"versus you know, that the the"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":714.95,"endTime":718.16,"body":"challenge of coding something"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":714.95,"endTime":718.16,"body":"because something can get built?"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":718.55,"endTime":721.13,"body":"I think we've I think we've gone"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":718.55,"endTime":721.13,"body":"through a couple of thresholds"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":721.13,"endTime":725.03,"body":"over the last couple of decades."},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":721.13,"endTime":725.03,"body":"I think the first threshold was,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":725.6,"endTime":730.79,"body":"could we write really scalable,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":725.6,"endTime":730.79,"body":"effective code? And could we"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":730.82,"endTime":734.3,"body":"architect software products so"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":730.82,"endTime":734.3,"body":"that they could be really"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":734.3,"endTime":738.68,"body":"scalable? And then we solved"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":734.3,"endTime":738.68,"body":"that problem? And then we went"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":738.68,"endTime":743.6,"body":"through a period of it being all"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":738.68,"endTime":743.6,"body":"about the code, and how"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":743.63,"endTime":747.26,"body":"efficient was the code, right?"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":743.63,"endTime":747.26,"body":"And how fast could the code"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":747.26,"endTime":750.32,"body":"process content and process"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":747.26,"endTime":750.32,"body":"data, and then we sort of"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":750.32,"endTime":754.79,"body":"crossed that threshold. And then"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":750.32,"endTime":754.79,"body":"we went into the design era of"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":754.88,"endTime":759.68,"body":"realizing, oh, we can build"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":754.88,"endTime":759.68,"body":"really powerful stuff now. But"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":759.77,"endTime":762.74,"body":"if we don't build stuff that has"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":759.77,"endTime":762.74,"body":"a good user experience, and has"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":762.74,"endTime":766.01,"body":"a good user interface, that are"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":762.74,"endTime":766.01,"body":"actually enjoyable to use, and"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":766.01,"endTime":769.46,"body":"easy to use, doesn't matter, you"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":766.01,"endTime":769.46,"body":"know, how robust the code is. So"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":769.46,"endTime":773.24,"body":"we went through a design, you"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":769.46,"endTime":773.24,"body":"know, period of UX and UI"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":773.24,"endTime":776.96,"body":"becoming critically important."},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":773.24,"endTime":776.96,"body":"Now, I think we're going into"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":776.96,"endTime":782.69,"body":"another threshold, which is, we,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":776.96,"endTime":782.69,"body":"we know how to architect it, we"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":782.69,"endTime":784.94,"body":"know how to code it, we know how"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":782.69,"endTime":784.94,"body":"to build things that are"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":784.94,"endTime":788.78,"body":"beautiful. We know how to build"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":784.94,"endTime":788.78,"body":"user experiences that are lean,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":788.9,"endTime":792.95,"body":"right. But now, I think it"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":788.9,"endTime":792.95,"body":"becomes, you know, this is sort"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":792.95,"endTime":795.83,"body":"of circles back to the beginning"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":792.95,"endTime":795.83,"body":"of the conversation. Now I think"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":795.83,"endTime":800.87,"body":"the challenges, we'll shoot a"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":795.83,"endTime":800.87,"body":"piece of software get built to"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":800.87,"endTime":805.34,"body":"solve a problem, or there are"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":800.87,"endTime":805.34,"body":"other ways to solve it. And and"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":805.34,"endTime":810.8,"body":"really, I think it becomes the"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":805.34,"endTime":810.8,"body":"almost humanistic part of it and"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":810.8,"endTime":814.82,"body":"the problem understanding part"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":810.8,"endTime":814.82,"body":"of it, and the distribution part"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":814.82,"endTime":818.51,"body":"of it, versus can we build"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":814.82,"endTime":818.51,"body":"something that's beautiful. And"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":818.51,"endTime":822.8,"body":"that's powerful? Of course we"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":818.51,"endTime":822.8,"body":"can. Now the question is, should"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":822.8,"endTime":827.24,"body":"we? And if we do, how is it"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":822.8,"endTime":827.24,"body":"going to get distributed? That"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":827.24,"endTime":830.24,"body":"How is it going to become"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":827.24,"endTime":830.24,"body":"commercially viable? Right, so I"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":830.24,"endTime":833.69,"body":"think we've crossed into another"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":830.24,"endTime":833.69,"body":"threshold of creating products."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":834.36,"endTime":837.21,"body":"Yeah, in the, in"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":834.36,"endTime":837.21,"body":"the medical device world, the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":837.21,"endTime":840.12,"body":"they have design verification"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":837.21,"endTime":840.12,"body":"and design validation, they're"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":840.12,"endTime":844.5,"body":"called and verification is did"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":840.12,"endTime":844.5,"body":"we build the product correctly?"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":844.8,"endTime":848.13,"body":"And then validation is did we"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":844.8,"endTime":848.13,"body":"build the correct product? And I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":848.13,"endTime":851.07,"body":"think that's, that's what you're"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":848.13,"endTime":851.07,"body":"getting at? I have another"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":851.07,"endTime":854.58,"body":"question. I wanted to ask you."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":851.07,"endTime":854.58,"body":"So you talked about this"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":854.76,"endTime":857.91,"body":"validation? Or did we build the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":854.76,"endTime":857.91,"body":"correct product? Right? Is this"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":857.91,"endTime":860.07,"body":"a product that actually has a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":857.91,"endTime":860.07,"body":"place in the marketplace? As"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":860.07,"endTime":863.49,"body":"opposed to all of those lines of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":860.07,"endTime":863.49,"body":"code that end up in the software"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":863.49,"endTime":868.8,"body":"graveyard? Are there cues that"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":863.49,"endTime":868.8,"body":"you have learned over the years,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":868.98,"endTime":873.21,"body":"you know, in the beginning, or"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":868.98,"endTime":873.21,"body":"even in the middle of a project"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":873.48,"endTime":877.71,"body":"that you can pick up on or your"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":873.48,"endTime":877.71,"body":"teams can pick up on and say, my"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":877.71,"endTime":880.89,"body":"spidey senses are starting to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":877.71,"endTime":880.89,"body":"tingle here. I'm not sure that"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":880.89,"endTime":883.8,"body":"this product is going to be"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":880.89,"endTime":883.8,"body":"something the market really"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":883.8,"endTime":887.67,"body":"needs? Or do you think you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":883.8,"endTime":887.67,"body":"really just need to wait until"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":887.67,"endTime":892.65,"body":"the product is finished and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":887.67,"endTime":892.65,"body":"shipped to get actual feedback"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":892.65,"endTime":895.53,"body":"from the market as to whether or"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":892.65,"endTime":895.53,"body":"not that product has a chance of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":895.53,"endTime":896.16,"body":"success?"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":896.57,"endTime":898.64,"body":"Now, I think"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":896.57,"endTime":898.64,"body":"there are signs along the way,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":898.67,"endTime":902.18,"body":"especially as you should be"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":898.67,"endTime":902.18,"body":"iterating on the product, you"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":902.18,"endTime":906.02,"body":"know, with, with customers"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":902.18,"endTime":906.02,"body":"early, even if it's a group of,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":906.35,"endTime":909.89,"body":"of ten customers early, but"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":906.35,"endTime":909.89,"body":"there are signs that I think the"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":909.89,"endTime":917.15,"body":"biggest sign is, users will will"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":909.89,"endTime":917.15,"body":"tell you what they want and what"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":917.15,"endTime":920.09,"body":"they need to solve the problem"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":917.15,"endTime":920.09,"body":"to the best of their ability."},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":921.47,"endTime":926.69,"body":"The challenge there is, until"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":921.47,"endTime":926.69,"body":"they actually get into the"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":926.69,"endTime":931.28,"body":"product to solve the problem."},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":926.69,"endTime":931.28,"body":"They don't know exactly what"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":931.28,"endTime":935.09,"body":"they need or what they want but"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":931.28,"endTime":935.09,"body":"when they begin using the"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":935.09,"endTime":938.99,"body":"product, now the lights start to"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":935.09,"endTime":938.99,"body":"go off, and the dots start to"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":938.99,"endTime":944.0,"body":"connect. And then and then they"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":938.99,"endTime":944.0,"body":"can begin to articulate better,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":944.69,"endTime":948.08,"body":"when I said I wanted it to do"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":944.69,"endTime":948.08,"body":"this, what I really meant is I"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":948.08,"endTime":953.33,"body":"wanted it to do this. Because at"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":948.08,"endTime":953.33,"body":"the beginning, when it's just"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":953.33,"endTime":957.47,"body":"conversation when you're just"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":953.33,"endTime":957.47,"body":"doing sort of verification, if"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":957.47,"endTime":960.62,"body":"you will, right, with users,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":957.47,"endTime":960.62,"body":"that's almost all verbal, right?"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":960.62,"endTime":964.01,"body":"It's almost all interview based,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":960.62,"endTime":964.01,"body":"it's almost all survey based."},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":964.46,"endTime":969.74,"body":"And they they can only tell you"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":964.46,"endTime":969.74,"body":"to a certain degree of the the"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":969.77,"endTime":974.0,"body":"efficacy of a product, right."},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":969.77,"endTime":974.0,"body":"But once they get into it, and"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":974.0,"endTime":979.22,"body":"they start using version one,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":974.0,"endTime":979.22,"body":"now they can tangibly start to"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":979.22,"endTime":983.48,"body":"tell you, whoo, I know I told"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":979.22,"endTime":983.48,"body":"you, I wanted to work this way"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":983.51,"endTime":988.73,"body":"A, B, and C. But now I see that"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":983.51,"endTime":988.73,"body":"I actually need a B and then any"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":988.73,"endTime":994.25,"body":"D, and then I need C, right."},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":988.73,"endTime":994.25,"body":"And, and so there's a real"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":994.25,"endTime":997.37,"body":"tipping point there, when you"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":994.25,"endTime":997.37,"body":"get users into the first version"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":997.37,"endTime":1000.37,"body":"of the product, which is often"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":997.37,"endTime":1000.37,"body":"called you know, an MVP, or"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1000.37,"endTime":1004.6,"body":"prototype or what have you. I"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1000.37,"endTime":1004.6,"body":"don't care about the labels, any"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1004.63,"endTime":1008.53,"body":"any product that users get their"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1004.63,"endTime":1008.53,"body":"hands on, and they can use it on"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1008.53,"endTime":1012.61,"body":"their own is version one to me,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1008.53,"endTime":1012.61,"body":"you can label it anything else"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1012.61,"endTime":1015.64,"body":"that you want to but if users"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1012.61,"endTime":1015.64,"body":"are using it, it's version one."},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1016.36,"endTime":1020.59,"body":"And, and so that's a big tipping"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1016.36,"endTime":1020.59,"body":"point. The other thing along"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1020.59,"endTime":1024.43,"body":"that same line that happens is,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1020.59,"endTime":1024.43,"body":"I feel really strongly that"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1024.43,"endTime":1027.52,"body":"you've got to have analytics"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1024.43,"endTime":1027.52,"body":"built into that version, one of"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1027.52,"endTime":1032.74,"body":"the product, because users"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1027.52,"endTime":1032.74,"body":"during the verification process"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1032.74,"endTime":1037.42,"body":"will say, will articulate things"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1032.74,"endTime":1037.42,"body":"and verbalize how they want it"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1037.42,"endTime":1040.81,"body":"to work. And then when they get"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1037.42,"endTime":1040.81,"body":"into the product, you will see"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1040.81,"endTime":1044.44,"body":"them through the analytics using"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1040.81,"endTime":1044.44,"body":"the product very differently"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1044.44,"endTime":1048.16,"body":"than they told you how they were"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1044.44,"endTime":1048.16,"body":"going to use the product. And"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1048.16,"endTime":1051.73,"body":"that's that's both a huge"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1048.16,"endTime":1051.73,"body":"opportunity and a huge red flag."},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1052.15,"endTime":1056.14,"body":"Because at that point, again,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1052.15,"endTime":1056.14,"body":"the tangible nature of now being"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1056.14,"endTime":1059.5,"body":"able to use the product versus"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1056.14,"endTime":1059.5,"body":"just theoretically talk about it"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1059.89,"endTime":1063.04,"body":"changes their perspective and"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1059.89,"endTime":1063.04,"body":"their input dramatically."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1063.74,"endTime":1066.32,"body":"Well, you you've"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1063.74,"endTime":1066.32,"body":"worked with a lot of startups"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1066.5,"endTime":1069.5,"body":"over the years. And can you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1066.5,"endTime":1069.5,"body":"share with us? What are some of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1069.5,"endTime":1072.95,"body":"the common pitfalls that that"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1069.5,"endTime":1072.95,"body":"startups you know, stumble into?"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1072.98,"endTime":1076.22,"body":"And and how can new teams who"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1072.98,"endTime":1076.22,"body":"might be listening to this avoid"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1076.28,"endTime":1077.24,"body":"those pitfalls?"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1078.08,"endTime":1080.24,"body":"Yeah, I think"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1078.08,"endTime":1080.24,"body":"the you know, some of the"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1080.24,"endTime":1082.04,"body":"biggest one we've already talked"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1080.24,"endTime":1082.04,"body":"about, which is they don't"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1082.04,"endTime":1084.29,"body":"understand the problem well"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1082.04,"endTime":1084.29,"body":"enough, before they start"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1084.29,"endTime":1087.62,"body":"building the solution, they will"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1084.29,"endTime":1087.62,"body":"build the first version of the"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1087.62,"endTime":1091.97,"body":"product as they as they should,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1087.62,"endTime":1091.97,"body":"based upon what users are"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1092.51,"endTime":1097.07,"body":"saying, but then it becomes too"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1092.51,"endTime":1097.07,"body":"much about about them, and they"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1097.07,"endTime":1100.4,"body":"sort of go into a vacuum"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1097.07,"endTime":1100.4,"body":"building the product, and then"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1100.4,"endTime":1103.55,"body":"they come out with the product."},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1100.4,"endTime":1103.55,"body":"And then they don't have the"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1103.55,"endTime":1108.26,"body":"level of adoption and use that"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1103.55,"endTime":1108.26,"body":"they expected they would. And"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1108.29,"endTime":1111.56,"body":"they you know, they then sort of"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1108.29,"endTime":1111.56,"body":"fall back on the fact that that"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1111.56,"endTime":1114.2,"body":"well, we built what the users"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1111.56,"endTime":1114.2,"body":"told us that they that they"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1114.2,"endTime":1117.47,"body":"wanted, but now nobody's using"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1114.2,"endTime":1117.47,"body":"it to the level that we"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1117.47,"endTime":1120.23,"body":"expected. And we don't have the"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1117.47,"endTime":1120.23,"body":"kind of traction that we"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1120.23,"endTime":1124.94,"body":"expected around it. And it the"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1120.23,"endTime":1124.94,"body":"the point that they miss through"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1124.94,"endTime":1131.0,"body":"that process is that they have"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1124.94,"endTime":1131.0,"body":"to be able to transition from"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1131.0,"endTime":1134.63,"body":"what users are saying to what"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1131.0,"endTime":1134.63,"body":"users are actually doing. The"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1134.63,"endTime":1138.02,"body":"other thing that they miss is"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1134.63,"endTime":1138.02,"body":"they have to transition from"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1138.02,"endTime":1143.06,"body":"doing product validation in the"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1138.02,"endTime":1143.06,"body":"in the positive to doing product"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1143.06,"endTime":1146.72,"body":"validation in the negative. And"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1143.06,"endTime":1146.72,"body":"what I mean by that is that"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1146.72,"endTime":1151.16,"body":"they've got to transition from"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1146.72,"endTime":1151.16,"body":"saying to users, tell me what"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1151.16,"endTime":1153.53,"body":"you like about it, tell me what"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1151.16,"endTime":1153.53,"body":"you like about this feature,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1153.53,"endTime":1156.53,"body":"tell me how this experience is"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1153.53,"endTime":1156.53,"body":"going to be valuable to you,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1156.53,"endTime":1160.46,"body":"etc. to shifting as they"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1156.53,"endTime":1160.46,"body":"continue to iterate with those"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1160.46,"endTime":1163.55,"body":"users on the product to tell me"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1160.46,"endTime":1163.55,"body":"what you don't like about what"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1163.55,"endTime":1167.69,"body":"we've done. Tell me why this"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1163.55,"endTime":1167.69,"body":"feature won't be a value to you."},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1168.2,"endTime":1171.2,"body":"And if they don't make that"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1168.2,"endTime":1171.2,"body":"transition from what I call"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1171.41,"endTime":1175.88,"body":"positive validation to negative"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1171.41,"endTime":1175.88,"body":"validation, that they're likely"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1175.88,"endTime":1180.14,"body":"to release the first version of"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1175.88,"endTime":1180.14,"body":"the product that is based upon a"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1180.14,"endTime":1183.98,"body":"lot of false positives from the"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1180.14,"endTime":1183.98,"body":"users because the users will"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1183.98,"endTime":1187.85,"body":"have continued to give them"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1183.98,"endTime":1187.85,"body":"positive feedback, because they"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1187.85,"endTime":1191.75,"body":"never gave users an opportunity"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1187.85,"endTime":1191.75,"body":"to ask permission to give them"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1191.75,"endTime":1192.77,"body":"negative feedback."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1237.75,"endTime":1240.06,"body":"I think that's the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1237.75,"endTime":1240.06,"body":"big deal because people are"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1240.06,"endTime":1244.92,"body":"typically nice and want to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1240.06,"endTime":1244.92,"body":"please others. And so if you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1244.92,"endTime":1248.31,"body":"don't give them if you don't"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1244.92,"endTime":1248.31,"body":"make it clear that it's okay to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1248.31,"endTime":1251.13,"body":"give me negative feedback,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1248.31,"endTime":1251.13,"body":"sometimes people won't do that."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1251.16,"endTime":1252.9,"body":"Has that been your experience as"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1251.16,"endTime":1252.9,"body":"well?"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1253.38,"endTime":1255.8400000000001,"body":"Absolutely,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1253.38,"endTime":1255.8400000000001,"body":"because they won't, because"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1255.9,"endTime":1258.93,"body":"they, they, they want to be"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1255.9,"endTime":1258.93,"body":"nice, they want to be"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1258.93,"endTime":1264.15,"body":"supportive, presumably, if they"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1258.93,"endTime":1264.15,"body":"are a small group of users that"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1264.15,"endTime":1267.96,"body":"you've gotten together that"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1264.15,"endTime":1267.96,"body":"that, you know, are okay,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1268.02,"endTime":1271.44,"body":"investing some time and energy,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1268.02,"endTime":1271.44,"body":"trying to help you to build a"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1271.44,"endTime":1274.38,"body":"product to solve this problem."},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1271.44,"endTime":1274.38,"body":"Presumably, they want the"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1274.38,"endTime":1278.0700000000002,"body":"problem solved. And presumably,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1274.38,"endTime":1278.0700000000002,"body":"they want you to be successful"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1278.0700000000002,"endTime":1282.54,"body":"solving it. So they're mostly"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1278.0700000000002,"endTime":1282.54,"body":"going to give you positive"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1282.54,"endTime":1286.98,"body":"feedback. That's okay. And"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1282.54,"endTime":1286.98,"body":"that's okay at the beginning."},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1287.04,"endTime":1290.49,"body":"But if you don't evolve that to"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1287.04,"endTime":1290.49,"body":"giving them permission, and"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1290.52,"endTime":1294.42,"body":"almost taking it to the extent,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1290.52,"endTime":1294.42,"body":"which is totally"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1294.42,"endTime":1298.8600000000001,"body":"counterintuitive, taking it to"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1294.42,"endTime":1298.8600000000001,"body":"the extent of saying that,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1298.8600000000001,"endTime":1301.6200000000001,"body":"thanks for the positive"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1298.8600000000001,"endTime":1301.6200000000001,"body":"feedback, appreciate it. Now, I"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1301.6200000000001,"endTime":1305.04,"body":"want you to tell me what you"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1301.6200000000001,"endTime":1305.04,"body":"hate about it. Right? And really"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1305.04,"endTime":1309.8700000000001,"body":"dig into not only giving them"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1305.04,"endTime":1309.8700000000001,"body":"permission, but almost eliciting"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1309.9,"endTime":1312.93,"body":"out of them, what they don't"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1309.9,"endTime":1312.93,"body":"like about what you've done with"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1312.93,"endTime":1313.6200000000001,"body":"the product."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1313.919,"endTime":1316.709,"body":"Yeah, encouraging"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1313.919,"endTime":1316.709,"body":"or even demanding that negative"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1316.709,"endTime":1317.3690000000001,"body":"feedback?"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1317.73,"endTime":1319.95,"body":"Yep. Because"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1317.73,"endTime":1319.95,"body":"otherwise, they just won't do"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1319.95,"endTime":1320.22,"body":"it."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1320.5800000000002,"endTime":1323.28,"body":"That's a great"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1320.5800000000002,"endTime":1323.28,"body":"insight. great insight. Speaking"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1323.28,"endTime":1325.71,"body":"of insights, I wanted to talk to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1323.28,"endTime":1325.71,"body":"you a little bit about sales,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1325.71,"endTime":1330.1200000000001,"body":"because as we all know, if we"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1325.71,"endTime":1330.1200000000001,"body":"can build an incredible product,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1330.1200000000001,"endTime":1334.02,"body":"but if we don't know how to sell"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1330.1200000000001,"endTime":1334.02,"body":"it, then it's not going to be a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1334.02,"endTime":1337.92,"body":"commercial success. And everyone"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1334.02,"endTime":1337.92,"body":"on the team, nobody likes that."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1338.31,"endTime":1341.0700000000002,"body":"So you've been involved with"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1338.31,"endTime":1341.0700000000002,"body":"with sales for much of your"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1341.0700000000002,"endTime":1345.8700000000001,"body":"career. And I have, to a much"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1341.0700000000002,"endTime":1345.8700000000001,"body":"lesser extent, I would say I'm"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1345.8700000000001,"endTime":1349.05,"body":"still learning. But I spent a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1345.8700000000001,"endTime":1349.05,"body":"few years really focusing on"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1349.05,"endTime":1352.5,"body":"sales. And one of the, one of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1349.05,"endTime":1352.5,"body":"the insights I think I've come"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1352.5,"endTime":1357.0900000000001,"body":"to is that persistence is so"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1352.5,"endTime":1357.0900000000001,"body":"crucial. I mean, I can contact"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1357.0900000000001,"endTime":1362.13,"body":"100 people once each, and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1357.0900000000001,"endTime":1362.13,"body":"probably get nowhere. Or I can"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1362.13,"endTime":1366.0,"body":"contact 10 people 10 times each,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1362.13,"endTime":1366.0,"body":"or maybe even five people 20"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1366.0,"endTime":1369.63,"body":"times each. And even though the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1366.0,"endTime":1369.63,"body":"total number of touch points is"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1369.63,"endTime":1372.48,"body":"the same for all three of those"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1369.63,"endTime":1372.48,"body":"scenarios, what I focus my"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1372.48,"endTime":1375.75,"body":"energy on following up"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1372.48,"endTime":1375.75,"body":"consistently with a fewer number"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1375.75,"endTime":1379.74,"body":"of people, the results are much"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1375.75,"endTime":1379.74,"body":"better. It seems like a simple"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1379.74,"endTime":1383.01,"body":"thing. But it's proved to be"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1379.74,"endTime":1383.01,"body":"powerful for me, have you found"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1383.01,"endTime":1386.1000000000001,"body":"that to be the case in your work"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1383.01,"endTime":1386.1000000000001,"body":"as well? And maybe what other"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1386.13,"endTime":1389.97,"body":"insights can you share about"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1386.13,"endTime":1389.97,"body":"finding success success in"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1389.97,"endTime":1391.1100000000001,"body":"selling your product?"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1392.16,"endTime":1396.81,"body":"Yeah, I think"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1392.16,"endTime":1396.81,"body":"sales is all about"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1396.8400000000001,"endTime":1401.49,"body":"relationships. And and, and"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1396.8400000000001,"endTime":1401.49,"body":"that's probably why you've seen"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1401.52,"endTime":1405.3300000000002,"body":"the the more contacts you have"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1401.52,"endTime":1405.3300000000002,"body":"with a smaller number of"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1405.3300000000002,"endTime":1409.8,"body":"contacts, you get a better"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1405.3300000000002,"endTime":1409.8,"body":"return. Because every one of"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1409.8,"endTime":1414.21,"body":"those, those outreaches, and"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1409.8,"endTime":1414.21,"body":"every one of those exchanges is"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1414.24,"endTime":1420.69,"body":"a wrong on building a ladder of"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1414.24,"endTime":1420.69,"body":"a relationship. And sometimes"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1420.69,"endTime":1424.23,"body":"they can be very innocuous,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1420.69,"endTime":1424.23,"body":"right? Sometimes it's Nope, not"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1424.23,"endTime":1427.89,"body":"ready sometimes Nope, timings"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1424.23,"endTime":1427.89,"body":"not right. Sometimes Nope,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1427.89,"endTime":1431.16,"body":"budget hasn't gotten approved,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1427.89,"endTime":1431.16,"body":"whatever the case might be. But"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1431.16,"endTime":1435.06,"body":"every one of those micro"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1431.16,"endTime":1435.06,"body":"interactions is the foundation"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1435.06,"endTime":1439.41,"body":"to a relationship. And so that's"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1435.06,"endTime":1439.41,"body":"key. And that's why sometimes"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1439.41,"endTime":1442.98,"body":"it's it's the numbers game and"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1439.41,"endTime":1442.98,"body":"sales is different than what we"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1443.01,"endTime":1446.22,"body":"what we think the numbers game"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1443.01,"endTime":1446.22,"body":"is. Sometimes the numbers game"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1446.22,"endTime":1451.1100000000001,"body":"and sales isn't volume, it's"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1446.22,"endTime":1451.1100000000001,"body":"actually quality with a fewer"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1451.1100000000001,"endTime":1455.3400000000001,"body":"number of people but solidifying"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1451.1100000000001,"endTime":1455.3400000000001,"body":"a better relationship with with"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1455.3400000000001,"endTime":1456.3,"body":"those fewer people."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1456.92,"endTime":1461.0,"body":"I love how you put"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1456.92,"endTime":1461.0,"body":"that I'm an engineer, and I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1461.0,"endTime":1464.1200000000001,"body":"think you know very linear"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1461.0,"endTime":1464.1200000000001,"body":"linearly and analytically, and I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1464.1200000000001,"endTime":1466.67,"body":"think, okay, I need to contact"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1464.1200000000001,"endTime":1466.67,"body":"this person. And then I'm going"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1466.67,"endTime":1469.1000000000001,"body":"to schedule a follow up for you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1466.67,"endTime":1469.1000000000001,"body":"know, a week later, and then I'm"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1469.1000000000001,"endTime":1471.23,"body":"going to do another follow up"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1469.1000000000001,"endTime":1471.23,"body":"two weeks later. And I'm going"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1471.23,"endTime":1473.54,"body":"to use text here, and I'm going"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1471.23,"endTime":1473.54,"body":"to use phone here and I'm going"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1473.54,"endTime":1477.41,"body":"to use email there. But you've,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1473.54,"endTime":1477.41,"body":"you've condensed that whole"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1477.41,"endTime":1480.6200000000001,"body":"thing to you're just building"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1477.41,"endTime":1480.6200000000001,"body":"relationships, that's really"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1480.6200000000001,"endTime":1481.5800000000002,"body":"what it comes down to."},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1482.03,"endTime":1483.95,"body":"Yep, that is"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1482.03,"endTime":1483.95,"body":"really what it comes down to."},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1484.94,"endTime":1487.64,"body":"But you know, doing it in a"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1484.94,"endTime":1487.64,"body":"multifaceted way also makes"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1487.64,"endTime":1492.2,"body":"sense. Because the the, if you"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1487.64,"endTime":1492.2,"body":"take a step back and look at it"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1492.2,"endTime":1496.7,"body":"from that individual"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1492.2,"endTime":1496.7,"body":"relationship from a macro view,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1497.21,"endTime":1501.2,"body":"each one of those different"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1497.21,"endTime":1501.2,"body":"communication channels has a"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1501.2,"endTime":1504.8300000000002,"body":"different flavor and a different"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1501.2,"endTime":1504.8300000000002,"body":"sense to it. Right? And it's in"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1504.8300000000002,"endTime":1509.66,"body":"some of them are more formal,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1504.8300000000002,"endTime":1509.66,"body":"and some of them are or are less"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1509.66,"endTime":1514.55,"body":"formal and more informal, right?"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1509.66,"endTime":1514.55,"body":"It's like texting. So the those"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1514.5800000000002,"endTime":1519.68,"body":"communication channels also have"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1514.5800000000002,"endTime":1519.68,"body":"a different dynamic to them as a"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1519.68,"endTime":1523.97,"body":"micro component to building the"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1519.68,"endTime":1523.97,"body":"relationship. Something that I"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1523.97,"endTime":1530.75,"body":"think is, is is also super"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1523.97,"endTime":1530.75,"body":"counterintuitive, is that I like"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1530.75,"endTime":1535.31,"body":"the jobs to be done methodology"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1530.75,"endTime":1535.31,"body":"around, you know, figuring out"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1535.3400000000001,"endTime":1539.0,"body":"what a problem is and what a"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1535.3400000000001,"endTime":1539.0,"body":"work processes around it and"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1539.0,"endTime":1542.69,"body":"where the gaps right and what a"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1539.0,"endTime":1542.69,"body":"better future state would be."},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1543.02,"endTime":1548.54,"body":"And if you're selling a product."},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1543.02,"endTime":1548.54,"body":"In particular, if you go through"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1548.54,"endTime":1552.6200000000001,"body":"a jobs to be done exercise and"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1548.54,"endTime":1552.6200000000001,"body":"building the product, that jobs"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1552.6200000000001,"endTime":1555.29,"body":"to be done work that you've done"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1552.6200000000001,"endTime":1555.29,"body":"around building the product"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1555.47,"endTime":1558.47,"body":"should also make it over to"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1555.47,"endTime":1558.47,"body":"marketing and make it make it"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1558.47,"endTime":1562.91,"body":"over to sales. Because the"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1558.47,"endTime":1562.91,"body":"messaging and the positioning of"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1562.91,"endTime":1567.29,"body":"the product is baked into that"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1562.91,"endTime":1567.29,"body":"jobs to be done work that helped"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1567.29,"endTime":1571.8500000000001,"body":"to define the problem, and the"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1567.29,"endTime":1571.8500000000001,"body":"work process and the new reality"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1572.15,"endTime":1576.3500000000001,"body":"and sales. Same thing. Because"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1572.15,"endTime":1576.3500000000001,"body":"when you're selling something,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1576.71,"endTime":1580.04,"body":"every when you're selling"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1576.71,"endTime":1580.04,"body":"something to has a current"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1580.04,"endTime":1585.0800000000002,"body":"state, and they have a future"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1580.04,"endTime":1585.0800000000002,"body":"desired new reality, and what"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1585.0800000000002,"endTime":1588.74,"body":"you're really selling them is"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1585.0800000000002,"endTime":1588.74,"body":"the existence of that new"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1588.74,"endTime":1593.66,"body":"reality and the path to get to"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1588.74,"endTime":1593.66,"body":"that new reality. And if you use"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1593.66,"endTime":1597.98,"body":"jobs to be done in creating a"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1593.66,"endTime":1597.98,"body":"product, you can use that same"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1597.98,"endTime":1601.04,"body":"jobs to be done methodology to"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1597.98,"endTime":1601.04,"body":"support your sales and marketing"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1601.04,"endTime":1601.5800000000002,"body":"efforts."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1603.17,"endTime":1605.6000000000001,"body":"Yeah, they have"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1603.17,"endTime":1605.6000000000001,"body":"the hope that there is this new"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1605.6000000000001,"endTime":1608.3600000000001,"body":"reality and you're selling them"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1605.6000000000001,"endTime":1608.3600000000001,"body":"the belief that you can help"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1608.3600000000001,"endTime":1612.0800000000002,"body":"them get there. Well, this is"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1608.3600000000001,"endTime":1612.0800000000002,"body":"probably a good time to take a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1612.0800000000002,"endTime":1614.6000000000001,"body":"short break and share with the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1612.0800000000002,"endTime":1614.6000000000001,"body":"listeners that"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1614.63,"endTime":1618.98,"body":"testfixturedesign.com is where"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1614.63,"endTime":1618.98,"body":"you can learn more about how we"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1618.98,"endTime":1622.64,"body":"help medical device engineering"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1618.98,"endTime":1622.64,"body":"teams who need turnkey custom"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1622.64,"endTime":1626.18,"body":"test fixtures or automated"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1622.64,"endTime":1626.18,"body":"equipment to assemble, inspect,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1626.18,"endTime":1629.3,"body":"characterize or perform"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1626.18,"endTime":1629.3,"body":"verification or validation"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1629.3,"endTime":1630.95,"body":"testing on their devices."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1631.43,"endTime":1633.89,"body":"We're speaking with Ryan"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1631.43,"endTime":1633.89,"body":"Frederick today who among other"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1633.89,"endTime":1638.0,"body":"things, is a product and company"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1633.89,"endTime":1638.0,"body":"builder in the software world."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1638.15,"endTime":1641.3600000000001,"body":"Ryan, I wanted to ask you a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1638.15,"endTime":1641.3600000000001,"body":"little bit about how software"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1641.3600000000001,"endTime":1644.21,"body":"and hardware companies can work"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1641.3600000000001,"endTime":1644.21,"body":"together. Obviously, we are a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1644.21,"endTime":1647.21,"body":"hardware company, most of the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1644.21,"endTime":1647.21,"body":"people we work with are also"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1647.3300000000002,"endTime":1650.9,"body":"hardware companies. Occasionally"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1647.3300000000002,"endTime":1650.9,"body":"we have customers ask us to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1650.9,"endTime":1654.5,"body":"implement software in our"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1650.9,"endTime":1654.5,"body":"design. So we do plenty of you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1654.5,"endTime":1657.92,"body":"know, automation type software,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1654.5,"endTime":1657.92,"body":"but we don't create our own, you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1657.92,"endTime":1662.3600000000001,"body":"know, mobile or desktop apps."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1657.92,"endTime":1662.3600000000001,"body":"How should hardware companies"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1662.3600000000001,"endTime":1666.89,"body":"approach working with with app"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1662.3600000000001,"endTime":1666.89,"body":"development teams like AWH, kind"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1666.89,"endTime":1669.74,"body":"of help us understand what"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1666.89,"endTime":1669.74,"body":"should we expect during that"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1669.74,"endTime":1671.0900000000001,"body":"collaborative process?"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1672.04,"endTime":1675.73,"body":"Yeah, I think"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1672.04,"endTime":1675.73,"body":"the the champ, the, the end"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1675.73,"endTime":1679.69,"body":"results should be similar. But I"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1675.73,"endTime":1679.69,"body":"think the the where you started"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1679.69,"endTime":1685.0900000000001,"body":"the process of getting there are"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1679.69,"endTime":1685.0900000000001,"body":"different at the beginning. And"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1685.0900000000001,"endTime":1689.5,"body":"what I mean by that is even if"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1685.0900000000001,"endTime":1689.5,"body":"you think about just the design"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1689.77,"endTime":1693.6100000000001,"body":"process of designing a piece of"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1689.77,"endTime":1693.6100000000001,"body":"hardware versus designing"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1693.6100000000001,"endTime":1698.17,"body":"software, when when you're"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1693.6100000000001,"endTime":1698.17,"body":"designing hardware, because it's"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1698.17,"endTime":1701.71,"body":"actually going to have to at"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1698.17,"endTime":1701.71,"body":"some point, get tangibly"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1701.71,"endTime":1705.1000000000001,"body":"produced. And and and even if"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1701.71,"endTime":1705.1000000000001,"body":"you're building an initial"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1705.1000000000001,"endTime":1709.03,"body":"prototype, right, it still has"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1705.1000000000001,"endTime":1709.03,"body":"to go to some level of of"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1709.18,"endTime":1712.45,"body":"specification for the hardware,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1709.18,"endTime":1712.45,"body":"you know, for the prototype to"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1712.45,"endTime":1716.74,"body":"get produced. And then once you"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1712.45,"endTime":1716.74,"body":"go beyond prototype and into"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1716.74,"endTime":1720.91,"body":"more broad manufacturing, right,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1716.74,"endTime":1720.91,"body":"now you've got tooling, and"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1720.91,"endTime":1724.75,"body":"you've got components and you've"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1720.91,"endTime":1724.75,"body":"got supply chain thinks as part"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1724.75,"endTime":1729.49,"body":"of it. So designing a piece of"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1724.75,"endTime":1729.49,"body":"hardware gets a very specific"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1729.52,"endTime":1735.01,"body":"and very particular really fast,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1729.52,"endTime":1735.01,"body":"where designing software is much"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1735.01,"endTime":1739.06,"body":"more iterative, right? And you"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1735.01,"endTime":1739.06,"body":"can, you can try a user"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1739.06,"endTime":1742.3300000000002,"body":"experience and you can, you can"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1739.06,"endTime":1742.3300000000002,"body":"try a user interface, and you"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1742.3300000000002,"endTime":1746.5,"body":"can release three of them at the"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1742.3300000000002,"endTime":1746.5,"body":"same time. And ABC test them"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1746.5,"endTime":1749.74,"body":"against each other right to see"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1746.5,"endTime":1749.74,"body":"which one resonates and which"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1749.74,"endTime":1752.89,"body":"one works the best. You can't"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1749.74,"endTime":1752.89,"body":"really do that with hardware. I"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1752.89,"endTime":1755.29,"body":"mean, you could, you could"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1752.89,"endTime":1755.29,"body":"presumably build three different"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1755.29,"endTime":1759.19,"body":"prototypes and release three"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1755.29,"endTime":1759.19,"body":"different products. But in most"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1759.19,"endTime":1763.15,"body":"cases, that doesn't happen,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1759.19,"endTime":1763.15,"body":"right? And so I think, at the"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1763.15,"endTime":1767.6200000000001,"body":"beginning, hardware is much more"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1763.15,"endTime":1767.6200000000001,"body":"constrained and much more"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1767.6200000000001,"endTime":1773.47,"body":"specific than software is. And I"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1767.6200000000001,"endTime":1773.47,"body":"think then, so we just think"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1773.47,"endTime":1776.26,"body":"about it from that perspective,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1773.47,"endTime":1776.26,"body":"they start, you know, very"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1776.26,"endTime":1780.13,"body":"differently, I think where they"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1776.26,"endTime":1780.13,"body":"start to intersect, and we have"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1780.13,"endTime":1783.76,"body":"several IoT clients that are"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1780.13,"endTime":1783.76,"body":"both hardware and software"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1783.76,"endTime":1788.71,"body":"companies. I think where the"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1783.76,"endTime":1788.71,"body":"intersection begins to happen is"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1789.13,"endTime":1794.44,"body":"when you think about the user"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1789.13,"endTime":1794.44,"body":"experience, holistically, and"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1794.44,"endTime":1799.48,"body":"the fact that the hardware in"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1794.44,"endTime":1799.48,"body":"most IoT situations is sort of"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1799.48,"endTime":1803.8600000000001,"body":"the on ramp or the gateway to"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1799.48,"endTime":1803.8600000000001,"body":"the, to the digital experience"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1803.89,"endTime":1806.95,"body":"into the data, right, then"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1803.89,"endTime":1806.95,"body":"you've got to begin to think"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1806.95,"endTime":1811.0,"body":"about, alright, the hardware"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1806.95,"endTime":1811.0,"body":"footprint is going to be this"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1811.15,"endTime":1814.45,"body":"probably very exact and very"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1811.15,"endTime":1814.45,"body":"specific as we were talking"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1814.45,"endTime":1819.3400000000001,"body":"about. But you then also have to"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1814.45,"endTime":1819.3400000000001,"body":"take into consideration will,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1819.3400000000001,"endTime":1823.42,"body":"what data do we need? And what"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1819.3400000000001,"endTime":1823.42,"body":"user experience overall, are we"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1823.42,"endTime":1827.98,"body":"trying to facilitate? And does"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1823.42,"endTime":1827.98,"body":"the hardware facilitate that or"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1827.98,"endTime":1831.64,"body":"doesn't it? And if it doesn't,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1827.98,"endTime":1831.64,"body":"yet, what do we have to do with"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1831.64,"endTime":1835.3300000000002,"body":"the hardware to evolve it so"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1831.64,"endTime":1835.3300000000002,"body":"that it facilitates the digital"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1877.2,"endTime":1881.37,"body":"experience that we want for"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1877.2,"endTime":1881.37,"body":"users and for us, right as the"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1881.37,"endTime":1885.1799999999998,"body":"product owner, as part of the"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1881.37,"endTime":1885.1799999999998,"body":"product footprint, and so the"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1885.1799999999998,"endTime":1891.09,"body":"digital overlay has hardware"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1885.1799999999998,"endTime":1891.09,"body":"implications for sure that then"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1891.09,"endTime":1895.08,"body":"feed the digital experience for"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1891.09,"endTime":1895.08,"body":"users. And then for the product"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1895.08,"endTime":1899.4299999999998,"body":"owner, because the product owner"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1895.08,"endTime":1899.4299999999998,"body":"in most IoT cases, is interested"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1899.4299999999998,"endTime":1903.48,"body":"in the data flow primarily,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1899.4299999999998,"endTime":1903.48,"body":"right? How is someone using the"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1903.48,"endTime":1907.26,"body":"hardware? Right? What's the"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1903.48,"endTime":1907.26,"body":"state of the hardware? You know,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1907.26,"endTime":1910.1699999999998,"body":"we want to sell them upgrades to"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1907.26,"endTime":1910.1699999999998,"body":"the hardware add ons to the"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1910.1699999999998,"endTime":1912.87,"body":"hardware. And all of that means"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1910.1699999999998,"endTime":1912.87,"body":"that you've got to have data"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1912.87,"endTime":1916.6499999999999,"body":"flowing about all those aspects"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1912.87,"endTime":1916.6499999999999,"body":"of the hardware. So what's that"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1916.6499999999999,"endTime":1917.94,"body":"data plumbing look like?"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1919.19,"endTime":1922.1299999999999,"body":"Yeah, it can you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1919.19,"endTime":1922.1299999999999,"body":"give us a sense, I'm sure this"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1922.19,"endTime":1926.33,"body":"varies wildly. But are there"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1922.19,"endTime":1926.33,"body":"some rules of thumb that maybe"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1926.33,"endTime":1930.11,"body":"we can implement to anticipate"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1926.33,"endTime":1930.11,"body":"what what expenses are going to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1930.11,"endTime":1933.6799999999998,"body":"be like, for developing a new"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":1930.11,"endTime":1933.6799999999998,"body":"piece of software?"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1935.1499999999999,"endTime":1938.03,"body":"Yeah, it varies"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1935.1499999999999,"endTime":1938.03,"body":"greatly, of course, depending on"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1938.03,"endTime":1941.0,"body":"what the complexity and the"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1938.03,"endTime":1941.0,"body":"footprint of that that piece of"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1941.0,"endTime":1946.8799999999999,"body":"software is. In it, it also"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1941.0,"endTime":1946.8799999999999,"body":"depends on how sort of"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1946.8799999999999,"endTime":1949.82,"body":"aggressively you know you want"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1946.8799999999999,"endTime":1949.82,"body":"to go, you want to go after it"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1950.75,"endTime":1957.6499999999999,"body":"in that it is the if version one"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1950.75,"endTime":1957.6499999999999,"body":"is, hey, we want users to be"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1957.6499999999999,"endTime":1962.72,"body":"able to have their own accounts,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1957.6499999999999,"endTime":1962.72,"body":"save their progress, have"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1962.72,"endTime":1966.6799999999998,"body":"individual dashboards associated"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1962.72,"endTime":1966.6799999999998,"body":"to their accounts, etc, right?"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1966.6799999999998,"endTime":1972.1699999999998,"body":"That's a different product than"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1966.6799999999998,"endTime":1972.1699999999998,"body":"a product that you take to users"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1972.2,"endTime":1976.25,"body":"and you you show them how to use"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1972.2,"endTime":1976.25,"body":"it. And but they can't use it on"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1976.25,"endTime":1979.73,"body":"the row. So that's one call off"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1976.25,"endTime":1979.73,"body":"point. That's pretty, that's"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1979.73,"endTime":1985.1299999999999,"body":"pretty drastic, right? The the"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1979.73,"endTime":1985.1299999999999,"body":"users can use it on their own,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1985.1599999999999,"endTime":1987.8899999999999,"body":"or you're at a point where"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1985.1599999999999,"endTime":1987.8899999999999,"body":"you're still sort of demoing it"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1987.9199999999998,"endTime":1990.8899999999999,"body":"trying to still work through"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1987.9199999999998,"endTime":1990.8899999999999,"body":"validation and iteration as part"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1990.8899999999999,"endTime":1995.8999999999999,"body":"of that. Because there's lots of"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1990.8899999999999,"endTime":1995.8999999999999,"body":"back end service. And support"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1995.8999999999999,"endTime":1999.1699999999998,"body":"things that vary depending on"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1995.8999999999999,"endTime":1999.1699999999998,"body":"whether a user can use it"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1999.1699999999998,"endTime":2004.03,"body":"independently or not. You know,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":1999.1699999999998,"endTime":2004.03,"body":"if, if, when we engage with"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2004.03,"endTime":2008.5,"body":"clients, and we talk about a new"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2004.03,"endTime":2008.5,"body":"net new software product, that"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2008.5,"endTime":2012.22,"body":"we would consider a robust"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2008.5,"endTime":2012.22,"body":"version, one product, where"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2012.22,"endTime":2016.57,"body":"users can use it independent of"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2012.22,"endTime":2016.57,"body":"the client company and"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2016.57,"endTime":2019.81,"body":"independent device, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2016.57,"endTime":2019.81,"body":"that typically starts around"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2019.84,"endTime":2024.49,"body":"150k, and then go and then goes"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2019.84,"endTime":2024.49,"body":"up from there. You know, we"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2024.49,"endTime":2030.22,"body":"build prototypes that are not"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2024.49,"endTime":2030.22,"body":"user independent, for less than"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2030.22,"endTime":2035.44,"body":"that, you know, sometimes in the"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2030.22,"endTime":2035.44,"body":"30 to 50k range. But, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2035.44,"endTime":2038.3799999999999,"body":"when I have conversations, when"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2035.44,"endTime":2038.3799999999999,"body":"our team has conversations with"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2038.3799999999999,"endTime":2042.58,"body":"prospective clients, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2038.3799999999999,"endTime":2042.58,"body":"we want them, we want to sort of"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2042.58,"endTime":2045.82,"body":"want to level set expectations"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2042.58,"endTime":2045.82,"body":"that I was having this"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2045.82,"endTime":2048.94,"body":"conversation with, with a"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2045.82,"endTime":2048.94,"body":"prospect who became a client."},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2049.42,"endTime":2053.71,"body":"And she said to me, look at what"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2049.42,"endTime":2053.71,"body":"am I going to be in for over the"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2053.71,"endTime":2058.4500000000003,"body":"first sort of nine months of"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2053.71,"endTime":2058.4500000000003,"body":"this, and I knew that she had,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2058.48,"endTime":2061.7200000000003,"body":"you know, several phases in mind"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2058.48,"endTime":2061.7200000000003,"body":"for the product, she understood"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2061.7200000000003,"endTime":2064.39,"body":"the problem really well, she had"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2061.7200000000003,"endTime":2064.39,"body":"a great product division"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2064.39,"endTime":2068.44,"body":"already. And I said, Look, you"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2064.39,"endTime":2068.44,"body":"know, if if, if we're going to"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2068.44,"endTime":2070.66,"body":"be honest about it, you're"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2068.44,"endTime":2070.66,"body":"probably going to be into this"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2070.66,"endTime":2075.4,"body":"for $250,000, and over the over"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2070.66,"endTime":2075.4,"body":"nine months, and it ended up"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2075.4,"endTime":2081.61,"body":"being something like 237. But it"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2075.4,"endTime":2081.61,"body":"was still pretty close to 250."},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2081.61,"endTime":2084.73,"body":"So you know, how to build if"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2081.61,"endTime":2084.73,"body":"you're going to build really"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2084.73,"endTime":2089.68,"body":"commercially viable software."},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2084.73,"endTime":2089.68,"body":"It's, you're not going to get"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2089.68,"endTime":2094.21,"body":"away with spending, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2089.68,"endTime":2094.21,"body":"10, or 12k, doing it? Can you"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2094.21,"endTime":2099.22,"body":"build a really, you know, low"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2094.21,"endTime":2099.22,"body":"fidelity, inexpensive, you know,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2099.22,"endTime":2101.71,"body":"prototype or something like"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2099.22,"endTime":2101.71,"body":"that, for that amount of money?"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2101.74,"endTime":2106.12,"body":"Sure. If you're going to have"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2101.74,"endTime":2106.12,"body":"users in the product, and you"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2106.12,"endTime":2108.97,"body":"expect to then be able to go"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2106.12,"endTime":2108.97,"body":"from version one to version two"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2108.97,"endTime":2112.18,"body":"to version three, pretty"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2108.97,"endTime":2112.18,"body":"quickly, it's not going to be,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2112.21,"endTime":2116.0499999999997,"body":"you know, it's not going to be a"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2112.21,"endTime":2116.0499999999997,"body":"20k engagement. And I probably"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2116.0499999999997,"endTime":2118.33,"body":"should add in here, too, because"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2116.0499999999997,"endTime":2118.33,"body":"I've been thinking about this a"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2118.33,"endTime":2121.96,"body":"lot lately. And it's pretty"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2118.33,"endTime":2121.96,"body":"popular, no, you know, no, we're"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2121.96,"endTime":2125.44,"body":"low code, you know, is starting"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2121.96,"endTime":2125.44,"body":"to get some momentum, right,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2125.44,"endTime":2128.35,"body":"where you take off the shelf"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2125.44,"endTime":2128.35,"body":"stuff, and you essentially, you"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2128.35,"endTime":2132.3399999999997,"body":"know, wire that together and and"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2128.35,"endTime":2132.3399999999997,"body":"take and build an app and take a"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2132.3399999999997,"endTime":2136.12,"body":"product to market using, you"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2132.3399999999997,"endTime":2136.12,"body":"know, no, we're low code. And I"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2136.12,"endTime":2139.99,"body":"think in that can work early on"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2136.12,"endTime":2139.99,"body":"for version one of a product,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2139.99,"endTime":2145.42,"body":"but I think what ends up ends up"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2139.99,"endTime":2145.42,"body":"happening inevitably, is that a"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2145.42,"endTime":2148.87,"body":"product that is no or low code"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2145.42,"endTime":2148.87,"body":"where you just take an off the"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2148.87,"endTime":2153.52,"body":"shelf, stuff that stuff and wire"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2148.87,"endTime":2153.52,"body":"it together. It is is sort of"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2153.52,"endTime":2158.41,"body":"the is the the kernel tool"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2153.52,"endTime":2158.41,"body":"product, but I wouldn't say that"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2158.41,"endTime":2163.0,"body":"you've actually got a product"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2158.41,"endTime":2163.0,"body":"yet, right? Because none of it"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2163.0,"endTime":2169.15,"body":"is is none of it is is really"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2163.0,"endTime":2169.15,"body":"scalable. None of it is"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2169.18,"endTime":2172.96,"body":"certainly you don't have any"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2169.18,"endTime":2172.96,"body":"intellectual property right to"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2172.96,"endTime":2176.35,"body":"your efforts because anybody"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2172.96,"endTime":2176.35,"body":"else could take those off the"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2176.35,"endTime":2180.07,"body":"shelf things and also wire them"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2176.35,"endTime":2180.07,"body":"together. So you don't have much"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2180.07,"endTime":2186.79,"body":"defensible in the product and it"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2180.07,"endTime":2186.79,"body":"becomes it so I'm not sure low"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2186.79,"endTime":2191.08,"body":"code or no code equals you"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2186.79,"endTime":2191.08,"body":"having a product, I think equals"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2191.08,"endTime":2197.59,"body":"you having the maybe initial"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2191.08,"endTime":2197.59,"body":"stages and phases to having a"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2197.59,"endTime":2201.7,"body":"product, but I don't think that"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2197.59,"endTime":2201.7,"body":"low code and no code ultimately"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2201.88,"endTime":2203.5299999999997,"body":"equal you having a product."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2204.5099999999998,"endTime":2206.7599999999998,"body":"Yeah, I see what"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2204.5099999999998,"endTime":2206.7599999999998,"body":"you're saying. Well, let me"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2206.7599999999998,"endTime":2211.95,"body":"switch gears a little bit here"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2206.7599999999998,"endTime":2211.95,"body":"and ask about a couple of books"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2211.95,"endTime":2215.73,"body":"that you have written. So you're"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2211.95,"endTime":2215.73,"body":"an author, as well, you have two"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2215.73,"endTime":2218.43,"body":"books that I know of, anyway,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2215.73,"endTime":2218.43,"body":"one of them is already out"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2218.43,"endTime":2222.54,"body":"called the Founders Manual. And"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2218.43,"endTime":2222.54,"body":"another one that is set to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2222.57,"endTime":2226.38,"body":"release in February, I think, is"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2222.57,"endTime":2226.38,"body":"called Sell Naked, and Other"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2226.38,"endTime":2229.95,"body":"Advice for Growing and Managing"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2226.38,"endTime":2229.95,"body":"Service Firms. Tell us a little"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2229.95,"endTime":2231.93,"body":"bit about both of these books."},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2233.06,"endTime":2235.79,"body":"Yeah, thank you"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2233.06,"endTime":2235.79,"body":"for the opportunity to the"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2235.79,"endTime":2240.41,"body":"Founders Manual really came out"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2235.79,"endTime":2240.41,"body":"of to me over over the course of"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2240.41,"endTime":2244.88,"body":"a couple of years, jotting down"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2240.41,"endTime":2244.88,"body":"notes around, if I had to do it"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2244.88,"endTime":2249.38,"body":"over again, what would my sort"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2244.88,"endTime":2249.38,"body":"of 20 year old self want to know"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2249.38,"endTime":2253.7,"body":"about starting companies? And as"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2249.38,"endTime":2253.7,"body":"I started compiling that list,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2253.73,"endTime":2257.0299999999997,"body":"you know, I realized that I had"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2253.73,"endTime":2257.0299999999997,"body":"a, you know, something, you"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2257.0299999999997,"endTime":2260.69,"body":"know, happening that could"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2257.0299999999997,"endTime":2260.69,"body":"become a book, and I reached out"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2260.69,"endTime":2265.07,"body":"to a publisher, and they said,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2260.69,"endTime":2265.07,"body":"\"Yep, we'll do it\". And so I"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2265.07,"endTime":2269.09,"body":"hadn't really no intention of of"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2265.07,"endTime":2269.09,"body":"writing a book. And so it just"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2269.09,"endTime":2272.66,"body":"sort of materialized that way."},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2269.09,"endTime":2272.66,"body":"But I, the founders manual, the"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2272.66,"endTime":2277.0099999999998,"body":"intent around the founders"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2272.66,"endTime":2277.0099999999998,"body":"manual, is to give people some"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2277.04,"endTime":2281.27,"body":"insight into what's the real"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2277.04,"endTime":2281.27,"body":"existence of building products,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2281.27,"endTime":2285.14,"body":"being a founder and trying to,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2281.27,"endTime":2285.14,"body":"you know, start a company on top"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2285.14,"endTime":2289.58,"body":"of the product, and, and"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2285.14,"endTime":2289.58,"body":"hopefully helps people increase"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2289.58,"endTime":2294.95,"body":"the odds of success in in the"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2289.58,"endTime":2294.95,"body":"endeavor. Because it's, most"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2294.95,"endTime":2298.04,"body":"things don't work, right, most"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2294.95,"endTime":2298.04,"body":"new products don't succeed, most"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2298.04,"endTime":2302.69,"body":"new companies don't work. So it"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2298.04,"endTime":2302.69,"body":"was really my effort to give"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2302.69,"endTime":2305.39,"body":"people a look behind the curtain"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2302.69,"endTime":2305.39,"body":"for, you know, somebody that's"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2305.39,"endTime":2308.93,"body":"been through this for many years"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2305.39,"endTime":2308.93,"body":"to give them some principles"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2308.96,"endTime":2314.75,"body":"that they could consider as part"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2308.96,"endTime":2314.75,"body":"of the process. And then, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2314.75,"endTime":2320.39,"body":"and then Sell Naked. You know,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2314.75,"endTime":2320.39,"body":"I, I've now been a principal at"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2320.42,"endTime":2324.74,"body":"AWS for nine years. And I"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2320.42,"endTime":2324.74,"body":"discovered that running a"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2324.74,"endTime":2329.24,"body":"services firm is very different"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2324.74,"endTime":2329.24,"body":"than running a product company."},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2329.72,"endTime":2334.88,"body":"And, and so, Sell Naked is"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2329.72,"endTime":2334.88,"body":"really a compilation of the"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2334.88,"endTime":2338.24,"body":"things that I've learned over"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2334.88,"endTime":2338.24,"body":"the last nine years, running AWH"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2338.96,"endTime":2343.58,"body":"of those differences, and why"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2338.96,"endTime":2343.58,"body":"it's really easy to start a"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2343.58,"endTime":2346.82,"body":"services firm. I mean, it's"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2343.58,"endTime":2346.82,"body":"easy, it's easy to put out a"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2346.82,"endTime":2351.0499999999997,"body":"shingle and say, I'm now a"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2346.82,"endTime":2351.0499999999997,"body":"consultant around this, or I"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2351.0499999999997,"endTime":2355.91,"body":"now, you know, a CPA or a"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2351.0499999999997,"endTime":2355.91,"body":"lawyer, you know, etc. And I've"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2355.91,"endTime":2359.42,"body":"got a particular craft, it's a"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2355.91,"endTime":2359.42,"body":"very different thing to then"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2359.42,"endTime":2364.07,"body":"turn that services firm that's"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2359.42,"endTime":2364.07,"body":"easy to start into something"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2364.07,"endTime":2367.43,"body":"that's growing, and that is"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2364.07,"endTime":2367.43,"body":"successful. And that isn't super"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2367.43,"endTime":2371.33,"body":"fragile. Because since services"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2367.43,"endTime":2371.33,"body":"firms are so easy to start,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2371.69,"endTime":2375.02,"body":"they're also really hard to"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2371.69,"endTime":2375.02,"body":"grow. And they're also very"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2375.02,"endTime":2378.65,"body":"fragile businesses, because in"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2375.02,"endTime":2378.65,"body":"part because they're so easy to"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2378.65,"endTime":2378.98,"body":"start."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2380.75,"endTime":2384.5299999999997,"body":"I can attest to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2380.75,"endTime":2384.5299999999997,"body":"that I have found growing a"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2384.5299999999997,"endTime":2390.38,"body":"services business to be one of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2384.5299999999997,"endTime":2390.38,"body":"the most complex challenges that"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2390.38,"endTime":2395.9,"body":"I have faced in my career to"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2390.38,"endTime":2395.9,"body":"date. It's kind of funny how we"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2395.9,"endTime":2399.32,"body":"evolve right? In the beginning,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2395.9,"endTime":2399.32,"body":"I was the technician, right, I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2399.32,"endTime":2402.5299999999997,"body":"started Pipeline and I was the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2399.32,"endTime":2402.5299999999997,"body":"technician, I was the only"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2402.5299999999997,"endTime":2405.71,"body":"technician and that's what I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2402.5299999999997,"endTime":2405.71,"body":"did. And then we grew a little"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2405.71,"endTime":2409.58,"body":"bit. And then I became the the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2405.71,"endTime":2409.58,"body":"project manager. And that's what"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2409.58,"endTime":2412.7599999999998,"body":"I did. And then we grew a little"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2409.58,"endTime":2412.7599999999998,"body":"bit more, and I became the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2412.7599999999998,"endTime":2415.43,"body":"business owner, even though I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2412.7599999999998,"endTime":2415.43,"body":"have always been the business"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2415.43,"endTime":2420.02,"body":"owner, but I started to actually"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2415.43,"endTime":2420.02,"body":"act like a business owner. And"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2420.02,"endTime":2424.85,"body":"now I'm in the face of growing"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2420.02,"endTime":2424.85,"body":"this business and making it"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2424.85,"endTime":2428.36,"body":"sustainable and solid. So I"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2424.85,"endTime":2428.36,"body":"fully appreciate everything that"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2428.36,"endTime":2431.63,"body":"you're saying right now. And I'm"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2428.36,"endTime":2431.63,"body":"personally really looking"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2431.63,"endTime":2437.63,"body":"forward to to reading that book,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2431.63,"endTime":2437.63,"body":"as well as the Founders, The"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2437.63,"endTime":2442.19,"body":"Founders Manual as well. Well,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2437.63,"endTime":2442.19,"body":"Ryan, I don't want to keep you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2442.19,"endTime":2446.5099999999998,"body":"too long today. But I really"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2442.19,"endTime":2446.5099999999998,"body":"appreciate your time and just"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2446.54,"endTime":2449.72,"body":"sharing some of your knowledge"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2446.54,"endTime":2449.72,"body":"with us before I let you go,"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2449.75,"endTime":2451.16,"body":"how can people get ahold of you?"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2452.5099999999998,"endTime":2456.89,"body":"You're probably"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2452.5099999999998,"endTime":2456.89,"body":"the easiest way is my personal"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2456.89,"endTime":2461.6,"body":"site is Ryanfrederick.biz, and"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2456.89,"endTime":2461.6,"body":"there are links out to the the"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2461.63,"endTime":2465.56,"body":"books out there or there will be"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2461.63,"endTime":2465.56,"body":"for the new book soon. And then"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2465.62,"endTime":2469.85,"body":"AWH site is  is awh.net and you"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2465.62,"endTime":2469.85,"body":"can also get in touch with me"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2469.94,"endTime":2470.15,"body":"through there."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2470.77,"endTime":2473.0499999999997,"body":"Terrific. Is there"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2470.77,"endTime":2473.0499999999997,"body":"anything that we haven't talked"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2473.0499999999997,"endTime":2474.73,"body":"about that you think we really"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2473.0499999999997,"endTime":2474.73,"body":"should have?"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2476.0,"endTime":2479.12,"body":"You know, I"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2476.0,"endTime":2479.12,"body":"think that one of the things"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2479.12,"endTime":2483.83,"body":"that I've learned over time is"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2479.12,"endTime":2483.83,"body":"when you're building new"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2483.83,"endTime":2487.82,"body":"products or you're trying to to"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2483.83,"endTime":2487.82,"body":"build a company, whether it's a"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2487.82,"endTime":2493.1,"body":"product company or a services"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2487.82,"endTime":2493.1,"body":"firm, that you give yourself a"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2493.1,"endTime":2498.23,"body":"chance to be more successful at"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2493.1,"endTime":2498.23,"body":"it, the less you make it about"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2498.23,"endTime":2503.66,"body":"yourself. And so if you if you"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2498.23,"endTime":2503.66,"body":"work in the products, best"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2503.66,"endTime":2506.81,"body":"interest in the company's best"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2503.66,"endTime":2506.81,"body":"interest in your clients best"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2506.81,"endTime":2509.45,"body":"interest and your team's best"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2506.81,"endTime":2509.45,"body":"interest, and if you're if"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2509.45,"endTime":2514.52,"body":"you're the last person in line"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2509.45,"endTime":2514.52,"body":"of who you're trying to sort of"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2514.52,"endTime":2519.29,"body":"satisfy and serve, then you're"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2514.52,"endTime":2519.29,"body":"you, you probably have the right"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2519.59,"endTime":2524.93,"body":"perspective around it. Because"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2519.59,"endTime":2524.93,"body":"we often start building products"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2524.93,"endTime":2528.95,"body":"and companies, you know, because"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2524.93,"endTime":2528.95,"body":"it's a very ego-centric thing to"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2528.95,"endTime":2533.27,"body":"do, right. But I think we"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2528.95,"endTime":2533.27,"body":"quickly have to move off of"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2533.27,"endTime":2537.68,"body":"that, to it being you know,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2533.27,"endTime":2537.68,"body":"about us, least of anybody"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2537.68,"endTime":2540.74,"body":"that's involved in the equation,"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2537.68,"endTime":2540.74,"body":"and if you can do that, I think"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2540.74,"endTime":2544.19,"body":"it just, you know, it gets you"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2540.74,"endTime":2544.19,"body":"in the right perspective, and I"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2544.19,"endTime":2546.5,"body":"think it gives you a chance of"},{"speaker":"Ryan Frederick","startTime":2544.19,"endTime":2546.5,"body":"being more successful with it."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2546.83,"endTime":2548.99,"body":"That's an"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2546.83,"endTime":2548.99,"body":"interesting insight. Thank you"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2548.99,"endTime":2552.11,"body":"very much for sharing that."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2548.99,"endTime":2552.11,"body":"Well, Ryan, this has been"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2552.14,"endTime":2555.17,"body":"awesome. Thank you again, so"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2552.14,"endTime":2555.17,"body":"much for spending some time with"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2555.17,"endTime":2558.89,"body":"us. And we'll see you next time"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2555.17,"endTime":2558.89,"body":"on the Being An Engineer"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2558.89,"endTime":2559.58,"body":"podcast."},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2563.07,"endTime":2566.4,"body":"I'm Aaron Moncur, founder of"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2563.07,"endTime":2566.4,"body":"Pipeline Design, and"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2566.4,"endTime":2569.58,"body":"Engineering. If you liked what"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2566.4,"endTime":2569.58,"body":"you heard today, please leave us"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2569.58,"endTime":2572.5499999999997,"body":"a positive review. It really"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2569.58,"endTime":2572.5499999999997,"body":"helps other people find the"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2572.5499999999997,"endTime":2575.91,"body":"show. To learn how your"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2572.5499999999997,"endTime":2575.91,"body":"engineering team can leverage"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2575.91,"endTime":2579.48,"body":"our team's expertise in"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2575.91,"endTime":2579.48,"body":"developing turnkey custom test"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2579.48,"endTime":2583.98,"body":"fixtures, automated equipment"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2579.48,"endTime":2583.98,"body":"and product design, visit us at"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2584.22,"endTime":2588.54,"body":"testfixturedesign.com. Thanks"},{"speaker":"Aaron Moncur","startTime":2584.22,"endTime":2588.54,"body":"for listening!"}]}