Sheila Henson - Why Coaching is Essential for the HEALTH of Your Business (#18)

This week on the Maximize Business Value Podcast, we are joined by Family Coach and Registered Behavioral Technician, Sheila Henson. Host Tom Bronson and Sheila talk about the complex dynamics of family businesses and the techniques she uses to help move the business and family forward. She also lays out the benefits of why you need a family coach. It is never too early to get the help of a family coach to improve the health and value of your business.  

Sheila Henson is a therapeutic teacher and coach specializing in Family Business Coaching and ADHD Coaching. She helps others manage their relationships, emotions, and behavior patterns in a variety of settings and circumstances. In addition to working with individuals, Sheila works with businesses and organizations, providing mediation, conflict resolution, training, and coaching. You can find her at HensonCoaching.com.  

Tom Bronson is the founder and President of Mastery Partners, a company that helps business owners maximize business value, design exit strategy, and transition their business on their terms. Mastery utilizes proven techniques and strategies that dramatically improve business value that was developed during Tom’s career 100 business transactions as either a business buyer or seller. As a business owner himself, he has been in your situation a hundred times, and he knows what it takes to craft the right strategy. Bronson is passionate about helping business owners and has the experience to do it. Want to chat more or think Tom can help you?  Reach out at tom@masterypartners.com or check out his book,Maximize Business Value, Begin with The Exit in Mind (2020).

Mastery Partners, where our mission is to equip business owners to Maximize Business Value so they can transition their business on their terms.  Our mission was born from the lessons we’ve learned from over 100 business transactions, which fuels our desire to share our experiences and wisdom so you can succeed.

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Tom Bronson is a serial entrepreneur and business owner. He is currently the founder and President of Mastery Partners, Mastery Mergers & Acquisitions, and the Business Transition Summit. All three companies empower business owners to maximize business value and serve business owners in different capacities to help them achieve their dream exit. As a business owner, Tom has been in your situation a hundred times and knows what it takes to craft the right strategy. Bronson is passionate about helping business owners and has the experience to do it. Tom has two books to help business owners on their journey to a dream exit: "Maximize Business Value Playbook," (2023), and "Maximize Business Value, Begin with the EXIT in Mind," (2020). Both are available on Amazon.
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Transcript

Announcer: 0:05

Welcome to the maximize business value podcast. This podcast is brought to you by mastery partners, where our mission is to equip business owners to maximize business value so they can transition their business on their terms. Our mission was born from the lessons we've learned from over a hundred business transactions which fuels, our desire to share our experiences and wisdom. So you can succeed. Now, here's your host CEO of mastery partners, Tom Bronson.[inaudible]

Tom Bronson: 0:39

Hi, this is Tom Bronson and welcome To maximize business value. A podcast for business leaders who are passionate about building longterm, sustainable value in their businesses. In this episode, I'd like to welcome our guests, Sheila Henson, a life and family coach. She and I met recently at an exit planning Institute meeting, and I jumped at the chance to have her come on and talk about how coaching and counseling could be an important activity for healthy companies, especially family businesses. So welcome to maximize business value. Sheila, tell us a little bit about your coaching business.

Sheila Henson : 1:21

Thank you for having me. Um, well I work with individuals, families, and organizations to help them become the best version of themselves, which sounds sort of corny, but it's true. Um, and I work with everything from more abstract concepts, like mindset and self worth to more concrete things like communication strategies or things like that. Um, and how to problem solve. Um, and well, my coaching also sort of goes into consulting because I also will do facilitation and mediation and sort of teach strategies as opposed to just coaching. Um, but basically anything that's going to help people get from where they are to where they want to be.

Tom Bronson: 2:05

Awesome. Awesome. So, um, as I think about, uh, coaching, you know, certainly communication is very important. Um, but w why would a family business specifically seek coaching help?

Sheila Henson : 2:19

I think there's a lot of reasons why a family business might seek coaching. And that might be that there's a lot of tension within the family that you're sort of feeling and it's coming uncomfortable and you want to let that go or that there's maybe something that's going on. That's a big problem at the moment that feels like it needs to be solved, or just that there's a stagnation. Like you feel like you're not moving forward together anymore. Um, and families can be very complex. They can have very complex dynamics, they can have very complex relationships. That's putting an extra layer onto the working environment. And so having a coach there can help you sort of sort through all of those complexities and you to where you're going to be the most successful for yourself, personally, your family, and for your business.

Tom Bronson: 3:05

So it's really a lot about getting people to open up and have those conversations. So, uh, is it easy to have hard conversations?

Sheila Henson : 3:17

Uh, no. It's not easy, hard conversation, doesn't it? Yeah. Um, yeah, I mean, no people, even people who have like really good communication skills, normally, maybe that's even something that you pride yourself on when it comes to your family, it can be really different. Like we have things, uh, dynamics that were set up from birth that we were raised with that maybe your older brother is the favorite or your sister is the baby, and everybody takes care of her. And, you know, there's all of these complications. And so trying to pull those conversations out, it's a little bit different than just, Oh, my coworker's bothering me. It's like my brother's bothering me and he's been bothering me for 40 years, you know, so it gets, uh, it gets a lot more deep and intense.

Tom Bronson: 4:04

So it makes it especially complicated when you have those deep rooted relationships and, and perhaps some, uh, dysfunctional, uh, communication styles, uh, that, that come into the workplace, um, that, that even makes the workplace a bit more of a challenge. But so why don't families just be more open and honest with each other?

Sheila Henson : 4:30

Yeah. Um, well, people hate talking about their feelings in general, most people, and they hate being vulnerable. I think almost everybody hates being vulnerable. I know Brene Brown is running around trying to save us from that. But in the meantime, um, we have a hard time being open and saying like, I feel sad, cause I think he's the favorite or whatever it is. Um, and especially with their families, you know, you have that dynamic and maybe you're the oldest sibling and you're the one that's supposed to have it all together. But at this moment you need help or you need support. And that can be hard to ask for. And also people don't want to hurt their relationships with their families. And sometimes they think that the only way to keep things civil is to like hide things or sugarcoat things. So they don't want to bring it out because they think, Oh, it's not worth making a fuss about. Or, um, if I, if I said this, my parents would never see you the same way, or my brother would never forgive me or whatever it is, but unfortunately like problems don't go away if you ignore them. And it just actually makes it harder in the long run. So having a coach or a counselor around can help you bring up those things that you've been avoiding, because it doesn't seem worth it or it seems too awkward or uncomfortable. And so then all of that sort of inner tension that's been building for who knows how long can come out and everything can sort of run more smoothly and a coach or counselor could create a container basically for those conversations. So it's not just you walking up and being like, hi dad, can we talk about this problem we've had for the last 30 years? Cause that can be a little awkward or, and he might get, get defensive. Um, you never know how someone's gonna react, but there are things you can do to make it more likely that they're going to actually listen to you and react in a positive way. Um, so for example, I might go into a family business situation and I'd talk to each of the family members individually and sort of figure out how are you feeling about things? What are your concerns? And then we could talk about which things are worth bringing up and which things aren't, there are a lot of things you gotta let slide, right? And maybe let that letting that go. That's more of a therapist job, right? But the things that you do have to confront like right now, a coach can help to decide like when's the right time. What's the right way. What are the right words? You know, all of those things

Tom Bronson: 6:51

That is, that is some excellent advice. I have worked with, uh, family businesses for a long time. In fact, I'll tell you a little bit about one in a few minutes. Uh, but um, I recently, um, talked with a family business where, um, the children are in the business, but they don't really get along. And, and that makes for a challenge for the patriarch who would like to ultimately exit the business and in the conversations that we've had, I've said, so what happens when you're no longer here? Cause that's coming eventually. And he said, well, while they promise to get along, you think that that methodology would work. They just promise to get along. What do you think about that, Sheila?

Sheila Henson : 7:37

No, I definitely don't think that that would work, that they would just promise to get along. I mean, people always have the best intentions. People always want to get along. People always want to be reasonable and logical and uh, and kind that's. I mean, most people, um, you know, uh, but we get our emotions get in the way of things. And actually some, a strategy that I think is one of my favorites. That's very simple. Um, is something dr. Bruce Perry came up with to deal with children with behavioral issues, which is regulate relate reason. And the important thing about that is the order. So before you start having a serious conversation, you need to make sure that the person is regulated so that they're not emotional. They're not angry. They're not hungry. They're not, you know, so checked out or whatever that they can actually hear you because when our emotions are at the forefront, our brains, we don't actually have full access to our brains. And when you're talking to somebody about something serious, you want to have that full access. And that's why we do and say things that we don't mean. That's why you can't just agree to get along. Because when you're angry, you don't even have access to the parts of your brain that are going to help you make that those right choices. Right? So you first need to make sure that the person is regulated so regulate first, right? Which means wait til they're not angry or feed them or it is. And then relate. So relating is stopping, thinking about their perspective, where they're coming from and validating it. And you don't want to be placating people. You want to actually take the time to stop and think about where they're coming from and then say, Hey, I see where you're coming from here. I, I can see why you feel this way. I can see why you see it this way. Is it like this? You know, and they can say, yes, that is great. So now we understand each other, then you get to do the fun part, which is stating your case. And that's the reason. So if you do it in that order where you're regulating first, then relating with them, then reasoning, they're going to be a lot more likely to hear what you're going to say, and to actually be able to have a productive conversation around it.

Tom Bronson: 9:39

And don't, don't, I know it, boy, you emotion just gets in the way of, of rational thinking. Doesn't it? Um, I wish that through all the years of my life, that I had kind of a regulate button that I could push that would, that would bring my emotional level down. I'm a huge fan of culture index. Are you familiar with that? Uh, that testing, not so co culture index, one of the, we aren't going to go into that here, but, but I am a high emotion, uh, person. And so, uh, so I am driven a lot by emotional, uh, things. And so of course we all make decisions based on emotions. And so, uh, and so I wish that I had a, uh, an emotion button, you know, like a, like an easy button that I could push that I could regulate, uh, that, that sounds like a wonderful, um, uh, methodology. So when, uh, Karen and I, those of you who know, you know, that's my lovely bride of coming up on 30 years. Uh, when we got married, we were given a wonderful gift by my parents who went through a serious struggle after 20, some odd years of marriage. I'm happy to report that, uh, before my, they, they were just about to celebrate their 40th wedding anniversary when my father passed away and they're both gone. But, um, the gift was, uh, to all of my siblings and myself was the gift of pre-marriage counseling with, uh, some counselors, a couple counselors that, uh, really spent time with us for six or eight sessions. And we were told at the end of that, that, uh, that, um, for the rest of our lives, uh, if we ever needed their help, that it was all prepaid, no questions asked, uh, we can always call on them. But the thing that struck me the most that I carry with me to this day, uh, is that, uh, they said in a marriage and I really equate this to all relationships. Uh, communication is the thermostat that regulates, um, the, the relationship that the communication style said. When you, when things get hot, what do do you go to the thermostat and make an adjustment and thanks to get too cold, you go to the thermostat and make an adjustment, and you need to do the same thing with, uh, with your relationships. You know, certainly it's been a wonderful for, for our marriage. We've had hot times and cold times, right? Uh, we keep going back to the thermostat, but, but that extends also into, uh, businesses, not only family business, but in relationships in business. So, so my question then, Sheila, is how important is it for family members to work together, to learn how to effectively communicate

Sheila Henson : 12:30

Vital? Um, the most important thing, I think that like any miscommunication with a coworker is going to be a problem, right? It any, it's been our partner. It's going to be a problem for a business, but if it's a miscommunication with a family member, it's going to be 10 times as bad because you're going to take it more personally, you're going to be more likely to hold a grudge. It might start sort of leaking into business decisions that you're making. You might start making decisions out of spite. Or like I said, if you're not, if you're not emotionally regulated, then you're going to be not thinking clearly. And if you're not thinking clearly you're not making the best decisions for your business. So the family business model makes it just even more important to be communicating at every step of the way.

Tom Bronson: 13:17

So, um, you know, it bleeds into everything, you know, those relationship issues, it could bleed over into, you know, Thanksgiving and holiday time. But, um, what do you think about how family issues in a family business might impact the other employees in that business?

Sheila Henson : 13:36

Yeah. I mean, we know that in a place of business, the culture is very important. We know that people are more productive when they're happy and they're calm and they feel good about where they work. And if you work in a place where the business owners are tense or constantly bickering, or, you know, icing each other out, that's going to make everybody feel awkward. That's going to make people maybe feel like they need to choose sides. I mean, depending on the maturity level of your employees, they can start gossiping about you come up with stories about you. They're going to be, you know, it can become a really toxic environment very quickly, which will impact productivity. It will impact how the business is run. And so everything that the business owners are doing in the way that they communicate with each other, that's a model. That's going to be the template for how the rest of the employees and the business is working. And so you've got to sort your own things out so that everybody else can have that, that role model, that baseline, you know, that, that the parents of the business, you know, are setting a good example for the children.

Tom Bronson: 14:40

That is a, that is a great example. So icing each other out, that's what our icing each other out I'll, uh, we're, we're about to take a break and I will try not to ice you out. When we come after that break, we're talking with Sheila Henson, a life and family coach, let's take a quick break

Announcer: 15:03

Mastery partners, equips the business owners to maximize business value so they can transition on their own terms. Using our four step process. We start with a snapshot of where your business is today. Then we help you understand where you want to be and design a custom strategy to get you next. You execute that strategy with the help of our amazing resource network. And ultimately we help you transition your business on your terms. What are you waiting for more time, more revenue, if you want to maximize your business value, it takes time. Now is the time get started today by checking us out at mastery partners.com or email us at info@masterypartners.com to learn more.

Tom Bronson: 15:54

We're back with Sheila Henson, A life and family coach. And we're talking about the importance of communication and family business, and kind of opening those lines of communications, not only in family business, but indeed in all businesses. Um, when I first had a conversation with Sheila, uh, I told her that during this COVID shelter in place orders that we received here in Texas back in, I guess it was March or early April, my wife and I binge watched a show on HBO called succession. So while it's a fictional and it's dramatized for effect, the family is amazingly dysfunctional in every sense of the word. And it literally tears the business and the family, not a part, but in too many different directions. And it's dealing with all that struggle. If you want to a wonderful example of, of, um, how not to, uh, to, uh, treat your family members in a business, then go watch succession. It is, it is wildly entertaining. And I think Sheila, you watched that as well. You watched a few episodes right

Sheila Henson : 17:06

At your recommendation. I got through episode three and I was like, Oh man, I want to work with these people. They sound fun.

Tom Bronson: 17:13

Well, yeah. I mean, you know, you get a, you get a contract with, with a business like that, man. You're employed for the rest of your life. No doubt. So, uh, awesome. So, um, while we're talking about family businesses, when should a family business really start thinking about seeking coaching

Sheila Henson : 17:32

The sooner the better, I mean, like we said, uh, tensions in the family is going to seep into the rest of the business. Um, like in succession, right? You can really just, just bactor fracture, but the business and, and the family, um, by just not with things that you should be dealing with. And so you want to make sure that you're bringing up and dealing with all of the issues. You're not just smashing them down or letting them come out in random bursts that might be completely inappropriate or too harsh or whatever. Um, and the sooner, the better also, because sometimes a fight is necessary. Sometimes an argument is going to be necessary. And you want to obviously do that in the most civil way, but still feelings are going to be hurt when we go into a disagreement with someone, particularly a family member, because we have all of that background, um, story with them, um, that there's going to be repair that needs to be done afterward. So the arguments are necessary. Conflict is necessary, it's unavoidable, but you want to have time to do the repair afterwards and say, Hey, I know that we disagreed. And maybe I said things I didn't mean, you know, but this is really what I meant. And I really do care about you. And I don't want to say, you know, all of that after repair takes time. And so you don't want to wait until the last minute when a decision needs to be made right now. And all of a sudden you're bringing up stuff from the past and you're bringing up all these problems that the other person might not have even known about, or you've both been sort of holding onto. And then the decision needs to be made right at this moment. And now you have an urgency, so you're going to be more dysregulated. And you're not going to have that time afterwards to be, to come back to the conversation and say, okay, I know I said this, but actually now I'm ready to listen to you. Or I know I said this, but I thought about it. And what you said actually makes a lot of sense. Let's try again and have this conversation. Like problem solving is a process and conflict resolution is a process. And you want to make sure that you have time to do that process. So you want to get a coach or a counselor to work with you when it feels like maybe you don't need it yet. I don't need that yet. This isn't that big of a deal. That's when to do it, because if you let it fester, then it's going to be too late. When you realize that it's really a problem,

Tom Bronson: 19:53

You know, you bring up two excellent points there. It's just like exit planning. I, I tell folks, it is never too early to start thinking about what your exit strategy is and start planning for it, because then you have a greater chance of success. And it sounds like in, in the case of, of communication and family issues, I mean, it's the first time you realize you have a problem. It's probably the first time that you need to engage somebody to help walk through those conversations. I'm kind of paraphrasing what you said. The other thing is that, um, a lot of times in business and especially I think with the familiarity of family, uh, in businesses, um, we make assumptions that we know what the other person is thinking and that's not always true, is it?

Sheila Henson : 20:43

Absolutely. Yes, no, it's definitely, usually not true. And that's why a coach or a counselor can be so helpful because they're going to clear up those assumptions by kind of deep diving into what are your beliefs, what are your beliefs about your brother or sister or parent? What are your beliefs about the business? What are your beliefs about why we're in this business? What are the beliefs about where we're going with this business? And maybe two family members have two completely different ideas about this. And so, and they're not going to talk about it, especially, you know, there are a lot of people who it's just, they were not raised to learn how to just talk, to talk about their thoughts, to talk about their feelings. And then because you feel uncomfortable opening up and talking about these things, that's what happens. You start making assumptions and then those assumptions build on other assumptions. And then you're looking at what your family member is doing. And with those assumptions in mind, you come up with this whole story about why they're doing that and what they're going to do next. And it has no basis in reality, it can go so far when someone's stepping in and just going, wait, why are you actually doing that? What are you doing? Why? And then just saying that, Oh, all of a sudden, all those stories in the back of your mind just disappear and you can start working with reality. And that's what we want to do. We want to start facing reality and working through it, you know, and giving the people confidence that they can work through it. Because I think sometimes it's really a confidence issue where it's, Oh, I don't like conflict. I can't handle that. You know, I can't handle that. Oh, no, he can't handle that. You know, she can't handle that. Like everybody can handle it. We just have to do it in a way that is productive and that is helpful. And sure, there are people that are a lot more difficult and they have a whole lot more difficult time handling their emotions and handling, sharing, and handling conflict. But if you have a professional there, then it's going to be a lot easier and, and you can work through those things without, um, just relying on your assumptions.

Tom Bronson: 22:44

Yeah. I find that to be true. You know, the, even, even when I'm sitting in a room with, uh, with, uh, executives in a business, they tend to, uh, be, um, more civil to one another when there's a third party observer. And I'm certain with, uh, where they coach in the room that, uh, that, that is exactly the same dynamic. Um, if you've listened to our podcast before or read any of my blogs or my book, uh, then you know, that, that I grew up in a family business. Um, my parents had a business that ultimately my brother and I took over in 1989. Uh, and, um, we had, we are in the, just the tiniest minority of family business owners that, uh, really got along well together all the time. Now it didn't mean we didn't have conflict. It didn't mean that we didn't disagree on things, but we agreed. And I've told this story before we split the responsibilities in this business that we own together, 50 50, I made ridiculous promises and he kept up. Why? Because I was really good at doing this side. I was the face of the business and my brother, uh, there wasn't anything that I couldn't go out there and promise that he couldn't deliver now many times the conflict for us came when I promise something that I didn't really check with him to make sure that we could deliver on. He always made those good, but it made for some tense moments in our relationship. So beyond that, when we had that conflict, the way we resolved it is when I really felt like I'm in front of a customer or about to make a commitment that, that I knew was going to challenge our resources. I immediately checked with him before I made that promise. And then he could give me the green light. Yes or no. And by the way, it was always, yes, he'd say, man, I don't know. I'm not sure how we're going to do that. But if, if that's going to be what it is that gets us business, then go get it and I will figure it out. And that, that having that communication with us just was golden. You know, we sold that business back in, uh, 96. Uh, and we've been trying to figure out how to work together ever since, because we just had that open relationship and communication. And I recognize that that is so rare, uh, in, in family businesses today. Um, it was really a product of growing up in that environment where our parents worked together and they had to learn how to communicate, uh, that way. And that's probably a lot to do with it. We fought like cats and dogs growing up, uh, but, uh, but learned how to be great business partners, uh, later on in life. So, so why is it so challenging? Cause we hear these horror stories all the time about family businesses that are being torn apart and, and, and challenges going on and, and they don't get along or whatever. Why is it so challenging for families to run businesses together?

Sheila Henson : 25:54

Yeah. I'm going to start by saying why it's beneficial because of your story and thinking about how sometimes in our families, we've actually learned how to lean on each other. Right? You learn your brother's good at this. I'm good at this and no one's good at everything. So it's really important to be able to say, Oh, this is your role. And this is my role. And if you've grown up with a healthy family dynamic, that can be amazing. Like it was for you. It can be, you're going to fill in the parts that I might not be the best at. And I'm going to fill in the parts that you're not the best at. And we can use those roles that we grew up with and transfer that into the family business. And then that's going to be amazing. But if you've developed less healthy dynamics of your family, which I mean, all of us have some unhealthy dynamics with our family, let's be realistic and you can pretend like you don't, but you do. Um, so we treat that our family in ways that we would never treat other people. Like I know with my sisters and brothers, like I would say things to them that I would never say to somebody else when I was angry and I was younger. Luckily I've learned better now, but, um,

Tom Bronson: 26:56

Would they agree with that?

Sheila Henson : 26:59

I think so. I'll ask. I'm not perfect. Let's be real. But, um, yeah, I mean we can learn and improve and luckily I've spent the last, you know, 15 years learning how to communicate. So hopefully that's bled into my real life too. Um, but we have certain roles in our family that can be really different from the roles that we play in business or with our friends. Um, and so when you're mixing the two, it can get really complicated and then things are going to be more interconnected than they normally would. So maybe your father doesn't like the person you're marrying, which would be a family problem. But now because of that, you're not getting a promotion. So now it's a business problem on top of a family problem. And that wouldn't happen if you weren't running a family business, your promotion would have nothing to do with being married. Um, and we're also talking about different generations coming together. And these generations were raised with completely different values and ideas about the world. And sometimes even the parents were immigrants. And so they were raised in a different country and then their kids were raised here. So that's a whole different set of values and sort of ways of thinking. And now those misunderstandings, aren't just a family issue. Those differences of value. Aren't just a family issue. Now they're a business issue and that could be devastating for a business if the values are different. Um, you can see that in succession where the father wants to keep things sort of old school and the son wants to start getting more into new media and, and they're clashing at that. Um, and so that's gonna put stress on the family relationships, which is going to put stress on the business. And then on the employees, like we talked about, which is going to put more stress on the family because now the business is doing less well and then it becomes a cycle. And so that's why communication is so important. And you have to know how to confront those differences respectfully. And you also have to know when to let things go when it can just be agree to disagree. Um, and when that disagreement is actually going to be sort of festering and, and, and affecting you, you know, because there could be something small, like we have the value difference that I don't know that, um, women should, um, should cook dinner, who cares. That's not going to affect the business, but if you think women shouldn't run a business, that's going to affect the business. Right? So those sorts of things need to be brought to the surface, like we said, as soon as possible. Um, and because in a family business, those things are going to get out of control a lot faster than in just a regular business, a different kinds of businesses.

Tom Bronson: 29:29

Well, I just want to go on record right now to say that I cook a lot of dinners. And so I think my wife loves that, the fact that I love to cook, we used to own a restaurant together. Uh, and, uh, and I love to cook. And so, uh, that's yeah, some of those kind of deep grained, uh, biases, if you will, uh, kinda come out in various different ways. So a lot of what you do, I mean, you're a coach, you are a life coach, kind of a business coach, family coach, um, is coaching the same as therapy?

Sheila Henson : 30:02

No, I'm definitely not a therapist. I do use therapeutic techniques. Um, I've been trained in a lot of therapeutic techniques. I've been trained in psychology, but, and I pull from like many different disciplines, but I'm not here to solve your psychological issues. I'm here to give you tools and structure so that you can move forward despite your psychological issues. And if you think you don't have them, you do, maybe they're mild, maybe they're serious, but we all have some things in our brain. The ways that our brain has developed that's unhelpful to us. And so those things, a therapist can really dive in and can solve those problems for you by digging into the past and working through it. And it's a time consuming process. A coach says, okay, we've got these issues. How do we still get the job done? So, for example, let's say Robert is the oldest kid in the family, and he's always expected to take on responsibility. And as he's growing up, he's starting to feel sort of burdened by this. You know, how come I have to do all the chores and my little siblings don't and how come I have to, you know, do this and that. And my siblings don't, I am always responsible for everything. And so he has this sort of burden that's that he's feeling. And then he said, his siblings just get to relax. They're the favorites or whatever. Right. And so as a family dynamic, this develops, and then as an adult, he starts to lash out at his siblings and his parents because he feels this sort of these negative feelings. And so a therapist is going to take, take Robert there. And she's going to say, let's go through and talk about the past and how did this affect you? And how did this, you know, this and that. But what I'm going to say is, okay, you should get a therapist, you know, Robert, but I need to move forward and you need to move forward without these issues getting in the way. So what I'm going to offer is help the family, see the dynamic and name it. So yes, Robert you're right. You have been sort of a taken advantage of for a long time. That's totally valid that you feel some resentment, totally valid also family. Yes. Robert's being a Butthead. Totally valid. So now what, right. And then I'm going to work with the family to figure out how can we still solve the problems we need to solve? How can we still make the business decisions that we need to make without having all of these things getting in the way in the way?

Tom Bronson: 32:30

Ah, that makes perfectly good sense. I mean, that's, uh, now I, now I can clearly see kind of the difference between therapy and coaching coaching is all right. We know we have these issues. Let's figure out how to deal and move on. Uh, and, and therapy can be about solving those problems in the past. And that's really not what business coaching is all about. That's awesome. What a great,

Sheila Henson : 32:57

I will say also that I work with therapists a lot as well. So I mean, it's going to work better if the family has a therapist that's working with the family or even an individual, and I will communicate with that therapist and then the coaching goes a lot smoother too. So I don't think that coaching is an alternative to therapy. I think it works best in tandem, but there are people that are uncomfortable with the idea of therapy and they're not ready for that, or they don't believe in it. And so for them, a coaching is a better alternative because we're going to be a little bit more practical.

Tom Bronson: 33:26

Well, you know, my siblings and I all understand that my brother was in fact, the golden child and, and, uh, we were, we were abused as a result. You know, we had to serve his whims and, and we don't need therapy. We're all fine with that. You know, that's just the way it is. So, Hey, one last question before we've got to, we're about to run out of time here. This podcast is about mix maximizing business value. So in your opinion, Sheila, what is the most important thing you recommend business owners do to build value in their relationships and therefore in their business

Sheila Henson : 34:02

Hire me? No, I'm just kidding. Definitely communicate, talk to each other, sign to each other, write to each other, however you need to do it because anything that you're holding back is going to be affecting the business and affecting you, whether you want to admit it or not. Um, I learned something from my friend, William Larsen. Who's incredible facilitator that, um, you should have a space in any meeting, not any meeting, but in certain units for awkward conversations. So, um, I'm on the board for rewild Portland and every board meeting, we have a spot on the agenda for awkward conversations where we can bring up anything that's sort of been eating at us, which could be something like, I don't agree with that decision that you made, or it could be your natural deodorant is not working as well as you think it is, whatever it is, but creating a space for communication, I think is going to be the thing that will affect how your communication works the most, which is going to affect how your business runs the most. And so that I think is the most,

Tom Bronson: 35:03

Well, that is a great idea. You know, as I, as I think about, you know, kind of the dynamics in a, in an office setting where, you know, perhaps you're going into the CEO's office, it's family member, and he's in the position of power, uh, you can really change the dynamic of that conversation by moving that conversation to a different, uh, venue, even inside the building, right? Uh, a conference room that is, that is accessible, or even going the person in power, going to the other person's office that, that really changes the dynamic. That is, that is some, some very interesting insight there. And of course, if anybody, you know, are folks who listen to regular listeners to our podcast, know that I always ask a bonus question. When I say this is the last question, that's always a lie. Uh, and I'm always going to ask a bonus question. And that is what personality trait has gotten you into the most trouble through the years,

Sheila Henson : 36:03

Man. Yeah, definitely. Uh, I'm silly. I like to laugh. I'm playful. And uh, some people, I don't know, I've been scolded definitely for maybe making a joke when people thought it wasn't the best time or when there are children around for riling up the children. Um, but I do think that it's actually a benefit because I think for most people it can help them to be more comfortable because we're I, with my job, I deal with really serious issues, some really dark stuff. And I think that if you can't use humor and silliness, then, um, I think I'd go crazy. So I do get in trouble for that, but I think it's actually a strength.

Tom Bronson: 36:44

Uh, yeah. Well, I agree with you. Uh, I am a class clown and as my wife says, uh, to both me and our youngest daughter, who's about to go off to college that, uh, that, you know, we are both kind of see humor in everything, but we, we always cross the line. And in fact, when we were talking last night, I looked at Emily and my wife gave us the look like we'd crossed the line. And I looked at Emily and I said, is there a line? She goes, I wasn't aware that there was a line. And so, you know, we, we both agree that, uh, that we can, we can go wherever that makes other people uncomfortable sometimes. So how can, uh, how can our viewers or listeners get in touch with you, Sheila, this has been a wonderful conversation. How can they get in touch with you?

Sheila Henson : 37:24

Well, they can check out my very minimalist website. I'm in the middle of a rebrand, but you can message me there or book a free consultation, which is Hensoncoaching.com, H E N S O N like the Muppets. Um, or they could just email me at hensoncoaching@gmail.com.

Tom Bronson: 37:41

So, Hey, if you're redoing your website, I advise you to go back and listen to our last two podcasts where I, where I taught the StoryBrand, cause it makes it so much easier to, uh, to kind of articulate that message. So

Sheila Henson : 37:58

I was actually, I thought that I thought that those were so good and I thought it's, it's so true. The idea that, um, your clients or your customers are the heroes of their own story. And that's a big thing with coaching is that I'm not here to solve your problems. I'm here to help you solve your own problems. And so I thought that that was a perfect parallel to that sort of marketing. I thought that was great.

Tom Bronson: 38:18

Awesome. Awesome. So thank you Sheila, for being our guest today, you can find Sheila at her website. Tell me it again. It's coaching.com and CIN coaching.com like Jim Henson, the Muppets. That's awesome. And it's in coaching.com or if you have trouble finding her, then just reach out to me. I will always be able to connect you. This is the maximize business value podcast, where we give practical advice to business owners on how to build longterm sustainable value in their business. Be sure to tune in each week and follow us wherever you found this podcast and be sure to comment, we love your comments and we will always respond to them. So until next time, I'm Tom Bronson reminding you to open up the communication channels while you maximize business.

Announcer: 39:19

Thank you for tuning in to the maximize business value podcast. Tom Bronson, this podcast is brought to you by mastery apartments, where our mission is to equip business owners can maximize business value so they can transition on their own terms. Our mission was born from the lessons we've learned from over a hundred business transactions. We're fuels our desire to share our experiences and wisdom so you can succeed. Learn more on how to build longterm sustainable business value and get free value building tools by visiting our website, www.masterypartners.com that's master with a Y mastery partners.com. Check it out.[inaudible]

Tom Bronson: 40:05

That was perfect. I wouldn't make any changes on that.