Whiskey Pete and the American Taliban Reporting for Duty

As December temperatures plunge below freezing, it becomes painfully apparent that while churches often advocate for helping the underprivileged, their doors frequently remain closed when it matters most. A homeless man was found dead in Toledo, raising critical questions about why faith-based institutions do not open their doors as warming centers during dire circumstances. With many churches only utilized a few times a week, it seems they could make a meaningful difference during these harsh conditions. Instead, many individuals within the church community have seemingly bought into the stigmatization of the homeless, seeing them as "dirty" or morally culpable rather than as fellow humans deserving of compassion.

Then we note the troubling rise of right-wing influence in the media, particularly through a CBS prime-time town hall featuring Erika Kirk, widow of far-right figure Charlie Kirk. The event, moderated by conservative commentator Bari Weiss, is framed as an exploration of grief, faith, and politics. The event is propaganda that perpetuates harmful narratives around women's roles, echoing the anti-feminist sentiments that Charlie Kirk espoused before his death. Erica's position as the new face of Kirk's organization is rife with irony. A former businesswoman, she is now expected to uphold her late husband's regressive vision of womanhood, which discourages career pursuits in favor of traditional domestic roles.

We then look at the potential severing of ties between the U.S. military and Scouting America due to the organization's evolving stance on inclusiveness, particularly with the inclusion of girls and LGBTQ+ individuals. The federal government should cut ties, years ago, because the scouts exclude atheists.

We also slip in an update on legal developments involving Pastor Chris Avell and his efforts to operate a homeless shelter in his church’s complex, in Bryan, Ohio, as he battles local ordinances. The situation raises significant questions about the intersection of religious freedom and public safety.

Full Show Notes & Links Used

Chapters

• 1:00 Where are the Churches?
• 9:59 Turning Point USA CEO Erika Kirk gets platform on CBS Network to complain about women working
• 21:30 Dad's Church Update
• 23:53 Whiskey Pete wants to cut ties with Scouting America because they include women

Transcript

[0:04] Churches seem to complain about government interference, except when it comes to helping the homeless during a cold snap.

[0:12] The church door stays closed. The American Taliban is getting a primetime stage on the CBS network this month. And Whiskey Pete Hegseff is pining for the days when the Boy Scouts excluded everyone except Christian white boys. This is Secular Left with Doug Berger, an independent, religion-free, progressive viewpoint on topics of the day.

[1:00] With the being December and almost Christmas time at the time that this recording is being made, it's gotten cold, very cold. Last week here in my area, it got down below zero at times. We had a snowstorm. We had some snow that blew in. And what happened last week was that a homeless man was found dead, sleeping on the ground behind a building in downtown Toledo. And it got made news, obviously, it made news, you know, if it's, if it bleeds, it leads, you know, in the news. But what got me was kind of the reaction, okay?

[1:47] We had a city council person who was complaining that the city wasn't doing enough to provide shelter for homeless people to get out of the cold, warming centers. And she was wondering why the city had not stepped up. And she was very concerned that more people might die from exposure or hypothermia or whatever. And she wanted to see something done. And I agree that something should be done to protect people when there's a lot of weather extreme, when the weather's extreme like that, where it's cold and you could possibly die if you're outside and you don't have proper clothing or any shelter.

[2:37] But my take on this, when they were doing this story, and they didn't answer it in the news articles I read or on TV news, where are the churches? You know, these church people, they talk about helping people, struggling people, doing, you know, it's Christmas time. So they're doing their performance art of donating clothes and doing gift drives and handing out bread or whatever and sponsoring people. But where are they to take care of the homeless? Why aren't they opening up their church as a warming center? You would think that as many churches as we have in this city, scattered around the city, that some of them could do that. And it got me thinking, and I think I know why. I think I know why a lot of churches don't do that. They've just played into or they just fall into this demonization of homeless people.

[3:44] We talk about homeless people like they're dirty, filthy, criminals, thugs, evil. You know, they made bad choices, so we shouldn't help them. And that takes a toll. Even people that are meant to help them, they still are shying away from it because they don't want filthy people in their churches.

[4:14] Yeah. And so you were thinking, well, Doug, does that mean that you wouldn't take somebody in? If I knew somebody needed help, if that was the case, I would probably take them in. But again, these churches have these buildings that are maybe used two or three times a week. So it's not like they are going to keep them from doing their church services. And they're always looking to recruit new members. And if you bring somebody in and you give them a warm blanket and a place to sleep when it's cold out, that gives you the perfect opportunity to prophylitize to them, right? You would think. I mean, the Salvation Army does that. I think they have a shelter in town somewhere.

[5:05] But the other thing that I wanted to mention, too, about this situation, besides the death of the man, and they did identify who it was, the other thing I wanted to mention, too, something to think about, is that some homeless people don't want to go inside. Some don't. Not all of them. Some don't. Some of them have mental health issues. And either they don't trust the government or they don't trust people, and so they don't want to go inside. It reminded me when I was in college, I was living in this rooming house on South Campus for a couple of years, and this guy that was living next door to me, he ended up meeting his girlfriend or something, and he's going to move in with his girlfriend, but he still was paying rent on this room. And so they were religious people, and they got together with their church, and they decided to sponsor a homeless guy. And so he gave him access to his room.

[6:25] Gave him a key. They brought him food, clothes, you name it. They even got him a job. They got him a job working as a janitor at one of the local McDonald's. You work overnight, you go to, because basically what would happen is the restaurant would close down and the janitor would come in and clean up everything. Well, that's what they got this guy to do.

[6:50] He lasted in that job probably a week probably get to get enough money to get something to drink, um i believe he was an alcoholic um and then he disappeared and so this guy and his girlfriend come back and they knock on my door and they say hey have you seen this guy and i was like no i haven't seen him in a while at least a week week or more and they're like okay and so he had left the place kind of a mess with some trash and stuff. And so they cleaned up the room and went looking for him. And he came back later, the guy that was trying to help him and said, yeah, they found him and he didn't want any more help. And so that's the thing that you got to remember is you can't assume every homeless person that they're homeless because they don't have a choice, okay? Don't assume that they don't have a choice to be homeless.

[7:48] Because sometimes they do choose to be homeless. And so you're like, well, what do I do then? How do I help them then? Get them some clothes, get them some coats, blankets, you know, all kinds of stuff to try to stay as warm as possible. Hand warmers. You know, the hand warmers are pretty cheap nowadays. You could get them like several boxes of hand warmers. And even if they can't use them all, they could probably sell them for food. Bring them food. You know, we used to have this, when they used to have the homeless camp in downtown Columbus, they used to have some churches that used to go, and in their ministry was they would bring food, hot food, to the homeless in the homeless camp. They eventually, the city went in and got rid of the homeless camp without actually dealing with the homelessness. They just bulldozed, not bulldozed the camp, but they threw everything out. But that's what I want people to think about, is that sometimes the homeless don't want to go inside. And that's something to consider. And there's other ways that you can help them. You should help them. And as I said, where are the churches?

[9:07] Why aren't the churches out there? Why aren't they opening up their sanctuaries as a warming center, especially if it gets really, really bitterly cold?

[9:20] And that's a problem, and somebody should look into that, because I really want to know where are the churches. For more information on the topics in this episode and the links used, visit secularleft.us.

[9:58] Depending on when you hear this recording, the widow of Charlie Kirk, Erica Kirk, will have had a primetime, they're dubbing it a town hall, on CBS, on the CBS network. And it's going to be moderated by Barry Weiss. Barry Weiss, I forget how to pronounce her name. I've talked about Barry Weiss before. She is a MAGA conservative. She is in charge of CBS now. She does not have a journalism degree. She did not work as a reporter. She was an opinion writer for The New York Times. She claims that she's gay and has a wife, but yet she is ultra conservative. I mean, she talks about, you know, she's like a buddy buddies with Donald Trump.

[10:57] She's anti-vaccine, the whole deal. And so she's going to be moderating this so-called town hall on December 13th for Erica Kirk. And it is dubbed On Grief, Faith, Politics, and More. And it's supposedly going, the audience is going to include young evangelicals, religious and political leaders. So basically what it is is it's propaganda, political propaganda, religious and political propaganda for the right. And this is the stuff that the right-wingers complained that the left was doing all the time when they claimed that the media was biased for liberals.

[11:43] That's what they would claim, and here they are doing it. It's all projection. They do that all the time. But what I wanted to point out besides that point is the fact that Erica Kirk is taking on this mantle that Charlie Kirk had created of being some kind of religious guru or, you know, people, you know, because that's what he used to do. He used to tell women on college campuses how they should behave, and they had this big young woman's summit last summer before he died and did the same thing. He was anti-feminist. He hated feminism. He didn't think that women should work. He also didn't believe that women should lead men.

[12:33] But here is his widow, who is the CEO of the organization that he founded. And she is a mother who has to take care of children. And she's telling other women that they need to quit their careers and marry and have children. Yes, it is very ironic. Kind of reminded me of Phyllis Schafly. I know some of you youngins probably don't know that name, but she was an advocate against women's rights in the 60s and 70s. She was, what they call it, concerned conservatives or something like that, some group. They opposed the ERA, the Equal Rights Amendment. And she didn't believe that women should be soldiers. They shouldn't fight in the military. They shouldn't be bosses or leaders, even though she was—.

[13:34] And that women should stay home and cook and clean and be married, even though she wasn't. In fact, Phyllis Schaffley had a whole staff that took care of her kids while she went out gallivanting and telling other people how to live. But these are how these hypocrites work, you know, is they tell you how to live and they don't live that way. I got this article in Freethought now from FFRF where a woman attended this young women's leadership summit in July, June or July, and he was the keynote speaker. Charlie Kirk and his wife were keynote speakers. And I just wanted to read this one part here just to tell you the type of person he was. It says, But Kirk's messaging went well beyond glorifying marriage and motherhood. It resoundingly discouraged women from entering the workforce or pursuing education. At one point, Kirk professed that husband should do everything he can to not force his wife into the workforce. But when he received an earnest question from a woman asking what federal policies he would back to make it possible for single-income households to survive financially, Kirk predictably did not have an answer. His solutions are not policy-based, but are instead rooted in indoctrination and unwavering obedience.

[15:03] In one of the two question-and-answer sessions Kirk led, as teenage girls lined up to ask for his wisdom on navigating school or balancing a career life with motherhood, Kirk stressed that women should not attend college and that high school girls should prioritize marriage and children above all else. Kirk trumpeted that grades do not matter and that a true patriot should not care about them, suggesting that Christians get bad grades because they do not succumb to the woke teachings of the U.S. education system and the left. And then the writer goes on, If girls do want to attend college, their end goal should not be a degree, but rather a husband, Kirk clarified. At one point, Kirk touted the idea that American society should bring back the MRS degree, a concept dating back to the mid-19th century in which women attended college with the intention of only finding a husband.

[15:56] Kirk wants the reality for American women to be modeled after the 1950s and a congregation of over 3,000 women and girls appeared to agree with him. And that's the thing. And then I have this other clip here when he's doing one of his college campus performance thing where he's having people asking questions. He also says the exact same thing, that women shouldn't worry about careers. They should get married and have kids. Listen to this clip. This is his own words. How do you believe feminism should be defined? And do you think it can be reconciled with conservatism? Well, so yes and no. It depends. There's first, second, and third wave feminism. First wave feminism is that women should have a right to vote. Second wave feminism had a lot of problems, which is the female liberation movement, that women should not just be at home, but they should get into the workforce. Third wave feminism is complete garbage, which is toxic modern day feminism, which is irreconcilable with any decent society, which is far more about hating men than actually respecting women. And you guys all know the type of that kind of feminism.

[17:04] There are some good aspects of second wave feminism, but at the core of feminism, we have to ask the question is, has it made American women happier? And it hasn't, actually. American women are more suicidal, more depressed, more anxious than they were prior. And I believe, and again, we get in trouble for saying this, is that you should have the agency and liberty to do whatever you want. But many women, a majority, like 90 plus percent deep down, have this urge to reproduce and to raise children. And we are telling them to forsake that and go become a CEO of a shoe company. And we're wondering why so many young ladies are miserable and angry because they're at war with something within them that they actually want to do, which is to have a relationship, have children, and nurture future humans into this world. And again, like I said, he was a hypocrite. He didn't have a college degree. He didn't even go to college. And he's telling these women not to go to college. He didn't even go to college. He subscribed to the conservative welfare state.

[18:04] And then what's also ironic, too, was that before they were married, Erica was far more successful than he was because she even had a clothing line that she had created, even though it was religiously based. It was called Proclaimed Streetwear or something like that. She was running a business and she gave it and she was a pageant. She was in beauty pageants. That's how she made her career. and she had not a law degree, but almost a law degree from one of those conservative religious law things like Liberty University. So she had far more experience and credentials and success than Charlie ever did, and she gave it all up to be a wife and mother. Think about that for a second. And now she is not just a wife and mother anymore. She is now a CEO. The thing that Charlie complained about, saying that feminists shouldn't do it, you know, that it was more freeing for women not to be in, not to have a career, that they were happier when they weren't in a career and weren't working. You know, that's just some that's just some extra, extra bad stuff coming from a conservative like that. You know, read Margaret Atwood's book, The Handmaid's Tale, is exactly like it.

[19:33] Where pregnant women that are married, that get married and have babies, are glorified. And women that work and have a career are demonized.

[19:46] That's the religion for you. That's the religious indoctrination for you. So that's what I'm expecting to see. I'm probably not going to watch the propaganda on CBS. But that is pretty much what you're going to experience is, you know, they're going to say, oh, you know, your husband was murdered, da-da-da-da-da, and she'll probably cry, she'll probably make sure she has some tissue, she'll cry some more. And that is just mainly to that's the propaganda. That's the conservative propaganda that we're seeing now that they've fully taken over at least one TV network. And, you know, we already saw it with the social media and that's what's going to happen. And the question that I would want to ask her is when she's going to quit her job and go back to being a mother and to get married again so that she could be a wife and mother and take care of a man. Because according to Charlie Kirk, she shouldn't be in charge of his organization. Erica Kirk, her supposed town hall on December 13th is going to be nothing but a political propaganda performance art piece.

[21:10] For more information on the topics in this episode and the links used, visit secularleft.us.

[21:29] For regular listeners of the Secular Left Podcast, I have an update. We did, probably about a year ago, maybe more, we did a story about Pastor Chris Avell in Bryan, Ohio, who was getting in trouble for having a homeless shelter in his quasi-church video arcade. And he had been having run-ins with the city of Bryan over zoning issues and fire and safety issues. And he got charged as a, had a criminal indictment for negligence and things like that. And so he was basically saying, well, he's a part, it's part of his church ministry and it, the city was discriminating against his religious beliefs. And he got help from First Liberty, the Christian nationalist law firm, and took the city to court.

[22:30] Lost in the first round, appealed it to the Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals, and they ruled just last week that the city, the judge in the case was wrong, and they set aside his decision because he had ruled for the city, and sent it back to the court saying that they had to use strict scrutiny. And what that means is possibly that a church, if you're ministering and it's part of your ministry to put people in danger, that the city has nothing to say about it. And so it's a very dangerous decision, but there was an update. The friendly atheist Hemant Mehta has an excellent write-up, and so if you check out his Substack newsletter, he's got it written up there, and I encourage you to subscribe to it, and I will throw a link to that article in the show notes. And probably have a story about it probably in a future episode. We'll talk more about it in detail once I read the court action and all that stuff and kind of process it in my own head.

[23:53] The news came out the other day, Pete Hegseff, the Secretary of Defense, had put out a memo that is planning for the military to sever all ties with Scouting America. And the reason why is he's saying that the group, once known as the Boy Scouts, is no longer a meritocracy, and it's become an organization designed to, quote, attack boy-friendly spaces, unquote, according to documents that were reviewed by NPR, which had this report. And it's a draft memo to Congress.

[24:29] And it said that Hegseth criticized scouting for being genderless and for promoting diversity, equity, and inclusion. And it should be noted that the military has provided some form of support to the scouts for more than 100 years. I remember I was a Boy Scout many moons ago. And the Army, U.S. Army, provided .22 caliber rifle ammunition. For our summer camps. The other thing that they provide is logistical support and medical support for the National Scout Jamboree that's held in West Virginia. And there are many scout troops on military bases. And I remember one time our scout troop stayed at Wright-Patterson Air Force space. They had a, uh, uh, we were there for the air show, the Dayton air show one year, and we camped out in, in the scout camp that they had at the end of one of the runways.

[25:35] At Wright Patterson. It was in the, there was trees. It was in the woods. It wasn't on the runway, but it was pretty close. And, and I remember we had to go through security and have things checked out before they let us in. And, and then of course, then they also guarded us with, the with the air air police they came by a couple times during the evening and at night make sure we are all secure so the military has provided quite a bit of support over the years, i don't know why they're well i know why they're doing it now.

[26:16] Because scouts america used to be called the boy scouts and the reason why they're not called Boy Scouts anymore is because about five or six years ago, they decided to let girls join. And they've had girls involved in scouting for a long time, but not as, quote, Boy Scouts, unquote, the main group. They had women involved in leadership positions. You could be a den mother. In Cub Scouts, you were a den mother. That was the main thing. You couldn't be a scout leader, but you could be a den mother. They also had women in explorer posts. Explorer posts were like police and fire. They also had women in the explorer posts that were connected to the water, the sea, sailboats and things like that. But, you know, five or six years ago, they finally decided to allow women or girls into the main group of scouting, allow them to become Eagle Scouts. And I know I've seen recently some news reports about some girls here in the northwest Ohio area that have become Eagle Scouts.

[27:36] And they've also recognized and allowed in, after not allowing for many years, LGBT scouts, LGBT leaders, which is very progressive of them, except they still refuse to allow atheists. Boy Scouts, when it was still called the Boy Scouts, was taken over by evangelical Christians. And they really doubled down on the religious aspect. When I was a Boy Scout in the 80s, I was nominally religious. I didn't go to church regularly. I kind of still believed. I didn't pray. I was making that transition from being a believer to being an atheist and a humanist. And so it really didn't bother me that much. But also the troop that I was in didn't really lean into that. It did, but the scout leaders that I dealt with in the local troop that I was in acknowledged that I was not religious per se, and they didn't force me to be religious.

[28:56] The scout troop I was in two scout troops and both of them were sponsored by religious groups one was a church and the other one was the Knights of Columbus which is a Catholic organization.

[29:10] And the reason why I switched I switched from the one that was sponsored by the Protestant church to go to the Catholic troop was because a lot of my friends that I went to school with was in the Catholic troop. And again, I was nominally religious, so it really didn't bother me. The biggest thing that we had to do when I was a scout was if we were camping on the weekend, we had to go to mass on Sunday mornings before we went home. Not a big deal because, you know, it's a modern mass, so it only takes maybe an hour or so. I was not required to do everything. I couldn't take communion because I wasn't a member of the church, and I didn't have to pray. They had the benches, the knee pads that they pulled down from the back of the pews so that you could be on your knees and pray. I didn't have to do that. The only thing that I was required to do, and the leaders told me this on occasion, was I just had to be quiet and respectful. And that's it. I didn't get anything out of the masses at all. Didn't appeal to me. Pretty much why religion didn't appeal to me starting back then, back when I was a teenager.

[30:38] But, you know, it was something I had to do because I couldn't drive. I didn't have a driver's license. I didn't have my own car. So I had to go to Mass. The other thing in the troop that they really, they didn't push, but for a lot of the Catholic boys that were part of the Catholic Church, It was something that they really, uh, push was the, uh, there was a metal you could get. It was called the, I think it was the, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, Alatari day metal. I think if I remember probably not saying it right. And basically you just had to do some extra work about your faith and you had to talk to a priest and, uh, And the priest had to sign off on it, blah, blah, blah, you get a medal. So there was a lot of boys that did that, that was in my troop. I didn't have to do that. I didn't want to do that.

[31:37] The Unitarians had a medal, and it was more of a patch than a metal medal, for people that were of the Unitarian faith. They had that for several years. And in fact, when I was in Columbus in the humanist group, I signed up and volunteered to help lead people, lead scouts through that program if anybody needed somebody. Because when you work on merit badges and other awards, you have to have somebody that you talk to and who signs off on it. And I agreed to do that. But when I was a Boy Scout in the 80s, I didn't have to do that. And so we met in the KFC hall. But yeah, we didn't pray. It was just very chill when it came to religion. The Boy Scout oath wasn't a problem because it said you had to do your duty to God in your country. But, you know, oaths, there was no consequences if you didn't follow that oath. More so. I mean, if you were a bad kid or something, usually they kick you out. But if you didn't want to obey God, they didn't care. You know, the only thing that the Boy Scouts at the time cared about was, did you pay your dues? They cared about the money.

[33:06] And so that is one of the reasons why they started accepting women and girls into the main group, and they changed their name, was because they were in financial trouble. And the reason why they were in financial trouble is because they had thousands of sex abuse lawsuits filed against them from scout leaders and other people that had abused children in the program and that they did nothing about.

[33:37] I'm not sure if it's still online or not, but there was paperwork, the files for the class action suit was released on the internet. And you could look up your specific areas, your towns, and see if there was any allegations. It was kind of like those abuse records that the Catholic Church had for decades. You know, they knew who the abusers were. They kept files on them. So did the Boy Scouts. They knew who the abusers were. They kept files on them. And the only thing that they did was they excluded those people from being leaders or being involved with scouts. That's all they did. They didn't call the cops. They didn't report them. Nothing. And that's why they had to pay out, I think it was close to a billion dollars or something. It was a lot of money. So that was one reason was they were in money trouble. The other reason was they had lost a lot of members. And the reason why they lost a lot of members was because at that time, this is before probably 2000, you know, 2010, something like that, they were less than open, less than inclusive.

[34:48] You know, they excluded gay people. They excluded atheists. They excluded Muslims. You know, the whole host of things. And it was because these evangelicals that were on the board and guided the national organization, they leaned into that Christianity now, Christianity forever type deal. And so a lot of these other religions and no religions got shunted to the side. And so they lost a lot of people. Yeah. And because of the abuse allegations, you know, parents don't want to have their kids in an organization that's known for harboring predators, sex predators, or ignoring that the abuse is going on. And that's what they were doing.

[35:41] So that so so Higgseth, the secretary of defense, is cutting ties. And I helped work on some programs, probably in the 90s, trying to get the government to cut ties because they excluded atheists. And they still exclude atheists. The Scouts still do not allow atheist Boy Scouts. They claim it's because the Scout Oath is religious, that they're a religious organization. Okay, and so what it was is you had, they claimed that they were a religious group, and they had the scout oath and the scout law. And like I said, there wasn't technically any real consequences for not following either for the boys. You know, like I said, if you were a really bad kid, like you got into fights or stole money or, you know, became a criminal or something like that, they'd kick you out. But if you didn't follow the scout oath to the letter and if you didn't follow the scout law, then they weren't going to do much for you. But the Scout Oath goes, on my honor, I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country and obey the Scout law, to help other people at all times, to keep myself physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight.

[37:03] And then the scout law is just a set of values. It's a scout is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent. And we had to memorize that. What really came down for me when in the 90s, when I became a humanist and I really started supporting separation of church and state, and it led me to stop supporting Boy Scouts. I wasn't going to give money to them. I wasn't going to encourage people to join or anything. And the reason why was because the evangelicals that took over the group in the late 80s, early 90s, they really focused on the part of the scout oath where it says that you do your duty to God in your country and that you stay morally straight And morally straight, that's how excluded LGBT boys was morally straight. They really doubled down on making sure that that excluded people. And then the other part that I had a problem with was reverent. They were taking it as reverent as in the religious context. And the reverent has more than one context, right?

[38:25] You know, the evangelicals were taking it as religious, that you're reverent, that you pray to God and you obey God, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Well, reverent, the definition of reverent is feeling or showing deep and solemn respect.

[38:43] So that's the way I took it. But they had this form that you had to fill out where you agreed that the definitions were all religious-based and that you would support religion. And that was something I couldn't do. So I was like, nope, I'm not going to become a leader. I'm not going to support the group. Nothing. Because if they're forcing me to pledge, to make a promise and sign a paper.

[39:12] With something that I did not personally believe, then I can't work with that group. And I think a lot of people felt that way too. The other thing that happened too with Scouting America, besides allowing girls to join, was they lost one of their major sponsors, which was the Mormon Church.

[39:35] The Mormon Church had one of the largest groups of troops chartered to them. Temples around the country had a troop.

[39:50] The Mormon Church National Organization donated a lot of money, sums of money, because, and that was one of the reasons why it got so religiously conservative in the late 80s, early 90s, after I had left, was because of the Mormons. They were instituting a lot of their religious beliefs, and the Boy Scouts were acquiescing to what they wanted because that was a lot of people and a lot of money. So after they decided, the Boy Scouts decided to allow LGBT scouts and leaders, the Mormons quit. They withdrew. They severed ties with Boy Scouts. So that was a major blow to them. And so it ended up pushing Boy Scouts to file for bankruptcy. And one figure I saw was in the 80s, when I was a scout, they had like 5 million members. And now they currently are lucky if they have a million. And then the Mormons went off and they started their own Boy Scout-like group. So...

[41:17] Getting back to Pete Hegseth's action, you know, he is doing it for the wrong reasons. You know, he's not doing it for reasons that it should be done, is that they exclude people and they're too religious to be connected with the government, especially a particular religion, Christianity. And but he's doing it because he claims that they let girls in and they are attacking uh boys or not not supporting boys so that is what happened with pete hegseth and cutting ties with scouting scouting america and it's and he's doing it for an absurd reason and.

[42:08] It should have been done, you know, probably 20 years ago. The government should have cut ties 20 years ago, and people tried. There was several, many cities across the country that passed ordinances that they would not allow the scouts to have the special privileges in renting facilities because they excluded people from their group. And again, they claim to be a private religious organization, so they can include or exclude anybody that they want. But our public government that is supposed to be about everybody, everybody in the country, we don't have to support that. We don't have to platform a group that discriminates. And that's not taking anything away from that other group.

[43:13] They can get the benefit of being in the public or getting benefits from the public as long as they adopt the rules that are set for everybody else in the public. And that is not to discriminate and to be as inclusive as you can. Secular Left is hosted, written, and produced by Doug Berger, and he is solely responsible for the content. Our theme music is Dank and Nasty, composed using the Amplify Studio. For more information on the topics in this episode and the links used, visit secularleft.us. If you want to support the show, share it with your friends or visit our merch store at secularleft.us/.