McKlane Bobbitt: W-2 Listener to 7 Figures

McKlane Bobbitt used to work a W-2 job where he would listen to The Titanium Vault podcast to learn how to eventually become a full-time real estate investor. His journey from debt collection and medical device sales to the thrill of real estate investing is a masterclass in the power of mentorship, knowledge, and sheer willpower. As he peels back the layers of his career transformation, we're taken through the emotional highs of providing solutions for sellers and the strategic decision to carve out a lucrative niche in messy title deals, where persistence and problem-solving reign supreme.

As if navigating complex real estate transactions wasn't enough, McKlane shares the deeply personal side of life's challenges and triumphs, from the heart-wrenching struggles with fertility to the joy of fatherhood through adoption. He offers a rare glimpse into the male perspective on fertility, shedding light on the emotional toll it can take and the resilience required to overcome it. The conversation then shifts to the monumental impact of fatherhood, a transformative experience that reshaped McKlane's priorities and deepened his contemplation on legacy—how we shape it and what we hope to leave behind for our children.

McKlane isn't just flipping properties; he's flipping the script on real estate investment's role in society, tackling the critical issue of affordable housing. By sharing experiences with Section 8 and HUD voucher programs, he debunks common misconceptions and showcases how investors can positively influence the housing crisis while simultaneously bolstering their portfolios. McKlane's story isn't solely a testament to his real estate acumen—it's an inspiring narrative of personal growth, societal contribution, and the boundless potential that lies within each of us when we dare to step beyond the comfort zone.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:01

Hey guys, welcome to the titanium vault. I'm your host, rj base the third, and I think today's guest has heard me say that a few hundred times, isn't that right, mclean?

Speaker 2: 0:12

That's right.

Speaker 1: 0:14

So McLean actually is the person who he embarrassed me at an event. One time I was standing next to one of my heroes in the real estate investing space we're going to leave the name out and McLean came up and bumped that person out of the way and say excuse me, I have to take a picture with RJ base. I'm his biggest fan. I listened to his podcast on my way to my W two and so we took a picture and I was like, but bro, this guy does more than me. Like you need to take a picture with him. Mclean is like no man, you're the guy. So this has been a long time coming because back then, mclean, you were we're going to get into your story, but that was that was the thing. Right, you were in a W two, you wanted to get into real estate. Now you've got a seven figure business. I love it, man. So break it down for the people. Man, when was that? How many years ago was that?

Speaker 2: 1:10

Oh, my word, okay. So that'd be. At least that's early 2019, because I closed my first deal in July. So for the listeners that are listening, whatnot I actually listened to RJ's voice for like four or five months and I told my son, I told my wife because we live like two hours away I said, look, I've got to meet RJ, like I've got to touch him and like embrace him to get this.

Speaker 2: 1:35

But every morning I would literally listen to every episode from the titanium ball and I'd have an hour and a half drive home and I'm like, okay, if this guy can do it and there was a podcast that you did and I'm sure the listeners have heard too is like your team goes I was a warrior for you today and every day I tell myself that like I'm getting chills right now talking about that. But for months I was like you know what, because I'm naturally an introvert Like whenever I first met RJ, I was scared to death and I was like he puts on his pants just like I do, just go say hi to him. Network. I don't think you know, but I actually took like 100 business cards that event. I came back with 98. So I will yeah, I really networked at that event. But your, your podcast is what started for me to go hey if he did it, if he went through all those challenges, like there's a possibility for me to do this.

Speaker 1: 2:28

That's awesome, man. And the thing about this is, you know, I'm at like the six and a half year mark. This is the first time that I've gotten someone on here like you. That's like dude. The podcast is what really started this, because that was the first content that I ever put out. Right Was the podcast? That wasn't these seller calls and all these lives and everything like that. That's where my content started, and the whole reason why I did it is for people like you. I want to give back to the community that changed my life and be like hey, real estate investing can can be that game changer for you. So you were working at W2. I was at a good W2, or was it a miserable W2? Because I know there's two different. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 3:14

So about the time I was listening to your stuff, I had just got started in like any kind of wholesaling. I'd actually paid for one of the big name gurus, I paid for one of their courses, but I was working debt collection, making like 725 an hour, like 1% commission. It was awful. I was probably the only guy under 30 that had no assault charges. I had been married twice and I learned my sales there and I got into medical device sales and that's where I was like Okay, because medical device sales, the product we were selling was end of life. It was oxygen concentrators.

Speaker 2: 3:47

Once someone went on oxygen, we knew hey, they had three to four years to live. So the conversations were you know what? I've worked all my life, I did all this. I wish I could go to the grocery store for 20 minutes. And so for a year I heard that I'm like there's got to be a way out of this. Like there's hundreds of people like this. And so that's how I found like hey, here's wholesaling, here's how you make money, here's how you make $10,000 a month, here's RJ, here's he's in for you. You know what that's next to me. And it just began to grow like that.

Speaker 1: 4:16

But that was probably like brutal to have to sit there and like listen to those stories about like literally someone saying I just want to go to the grocery store. I mean that's probably just mentally like a beat down. I'm talking about that like on the real estate investing side, like sometimes our seller calls can be like emotionally draining. Was that also like part of your life, dude? Not only am I not making a lot of money, but I'm kind of miserable with the conversations.

Speaker 2: 4:43

Yes, yeah, I mean, it was a. You hear, that's, you hear the end of stories and you're like man. They've worked 60, 70 years of their life at the same job and this is like what they wish they could do, which, like you said, we have a seller conversations like that, but obviously we give the solution, we're able to provide a solution to a seller and we get compensated really well for it. But W two, life is not for me.

Speaker 1: 5:04

Yeah, so yeah, the story I tell about, like the emotional seller calls, I just had one during the past 50 day challenge, which I think I called you like two or three times during the lives, where I'm like, hey, you're live on YouTube, but I got a lead in Greenville, so you're going to help me. But one of the the calls that I got that was just so emotionally draining was is she actually lost her husband to a mass shooting? And I mean, dude, we know that they happen right.

Speaker 1: 5:37

We hear about them on the news, but to actually have like that conversation. And then she eventually came out with it. The feeling that I had afterwards is like dude, I need to take my 30, 40 minutes. I need to do emotionally like overcome what she was telling me about. You know, I need to sell my real estate because this is what happened and how emotionally distraught I am, like I need to start my whole life over again. So just, it's a it's a tough part about our, our industry, right, so you get out of that industry. Talking to people like that, when did you make the decision and how were you able to get out of that? Because this is like a problem.

Speaker 2: 6:17

Yeah, this is like. So I was in medical advice sales pretty much all of 2019. I was getting my stuff ready to go. I actually went into software sales for real page, which is a huge property management software company in Richardson, and I'd say, like that defining moment, you know, obviously as a man you're like all right, it's time to saddle up, like we got to do this. So my wife and I Amanda we were having fertility issues and, yes, I'd made some decent money. It's like, okay, we're good, but never was like, hey, this is like life changing money and it's not going to happen with me doing this W2 job. But I went in to software sales, started doing really good. Obviously, it was like a long term play, but I took that job in early 2019. I said, look, I'm going to build this business up Like I'd already done probably 20 wholesale deals, and I was like I'm going to make a business of this. It's going to be, it's going to be something we're going to do About mid 2019,.

Speaker 2: 7:13

We went to go to the fertility doctor and they were like hey, y'all been trying for almost a year and a half, two years, y'all don't have anything happened. So here's your options. And of course, the options were astronomical. It's like, hey, $30,000, $40,000 for this, for maybe a 50 50 shot. And I remember walking down the hallway and Amanda was just crying. She's like I don't think we'll ever be able to afford this. I will never be able to do this. I don't know what we do. And I remember looking at them and going it's not, this is not the end. I was like it's our starting line. Like here we go, let's do this.

Speaker 2: 7:46

And I went on a mad house like just knocking down deals. Um, actually was the end of July or end of 2019. I'd done almost five deals a month and I just was like, okay, we've got the runway, we've got everything going. Um, I probably need to start looking at leave my job. And that was the first call was like hey, if I can be full time in my, my job, I can go get the fertility treatments, all this other stuff. And, uh, I started getting ready to leave, got the insurance online, everything.

Speaker 2: 8:17

Well, a little thing called COVID came along and, um, it was about April, may. I locked up a deal is like a 35,000 or assignment fee and I didn't close yet. And Amanda's like you need to quit, you need to quit. So the day after it closed was the day, the same day that Dallas declared shelter in place and I was like I'm done, I'm out by y'all. And then, like two hours later, they were like hey, shelter in place, everyone worked from home. And I'm literally like I know I just had this deal closed. I've had consistent deals.

Speaker 2: 8:48

Um, I just left my job and I'm like what do we do? And we literally were like I've done this many deals. I talked to my father-in-law, billy, and he's like look, you've already made the jump. I already had the heart to heart with my grandfather and he was like you've already done this, you've prepared it. You're not being stupid like me. He was like jump, like do what you need to do and go build that business now. And we were able to get the fertility treatments like within the first three months of me leaving my corporate job. I made my annual salary in like the first 30 days after leaving my corporate job and, of course, amanda was like why didn't you leave sooner? I told you to leave sooner. That pivotal moment for us was whenever walking down the hallway and hearing go like I don't think we'll ever be able to afford this and obviously now we have a two year old that we adopted, so it's life is really different now.

Speaker 1: 9:36

Yeah, that's um, I wanted to talk about that. I'm glad that you brought up, because so often when we talk about being entrepreneurs, like we have our saying around here, create your own reality. And people talk about this freedom, financial freedom and all of these days it's loosely thrown around, right? But in your scenario, like you're working at W two, that you're miserable in you know that you want to do this, hearing that like you realizing like hey, I'm I'm not able to actually have this freedom and I'm not able to create now in reality, I have to go do this. Do you think if that hadn't happened, you might not have jumped off as quickly as you did? Do you think you would have stayed in the W two longer?

Speaker 2: 10:21

Oh yeah, I think honestly I was. So whenever I left my W two, I just got in promotion and they said, hey, if you do exactly what you do, you hit your quota, your OTE. On expectations, they were like you will make 130 to 150,000 this year, which obviously like out here, that's, that's blood money, that's good money. And I signed my commission statement. I said I'll be gone before summer and I left May 2020.

Speaker 1: 10:48

Wow. So Amanda was always in vapor of you quitting the W two. You were the reason why you weren't leaving.

Speaker 2: 10:57

It was always that fall sense of security. It's a. You start looking at it and you're like man, I don't think I can make that jump. And you start you should have that confident, that lack of confidence, like, hey, how do I afford the insurance? And once I realized like hey, what's the problem, let's go figure it out. Okay, that's the answer. Okay, do you have three months runway? Yes, you do. Do you have three months savings? Great, okay, now it's just on you, buddy, like it's time to nut up that's it.

Speaker 1: 11:23

But like dude, looking at you now, like when I called you during the 50 day challenge and I'm like, hey, I got some leads in Greenville, texas. You, your level of confidence in your abilities and your business and what you're doing is like second to none, in my opinion. Where did that come from? Is it just proof Because you've been able to do it, because you're talking about you needed this runway and essentially, proof that you could quit the W2. Now here you are, fast-forward. Three and a half years later, you're one of the most confident guys I know. Where did that come from?

Speaker 2: 12:07

I'll say it's kind of like a two-faced thing. Whenever you do your first wholesale deal, you go from hey, is this a dream land or is it belief land? And you go to belief land and you're like, okay, this is real, this is not some scam. But honestly, it's like your 50 deals in 50 states. It's repetition. It's going and doing those deals and getting in those conversations where it's like, hey, I don't know how to solve this problem, but I'll figure it out and building that confidence up where I can go and talk to sellers that other investors pass up because they're like, hey, I'm not going to do this deal, but I do because I've done 20 or 30 of them.

Speaker 1: 12:43

So, on that note, at what point did you decide, hey, I want to be the messy title guy Because like, this is like your thing. Right, this is your name and like, why? Like? Who decides that?

Speaker 2: 13:00

So if our attorney is listening to this, I'm sure he will at some point. So whenever I was, I was trying to get started and like I was like okay, where's my most profitable deals? And it was like, oh, messy title. And honestly, what it was is there was only a couple of tile companies that I would work with because they worked with these types of deals, and I had like two or three deals. It was it was my proof of concept like okay, three months, I'm good to go of runway. And I had like three or four deals and the title officer was like, hey, look, we're going to have to drop these deals. We can't find the sellers, you're just going to have to let it go. And mine was probably like 30, 40 K worth of assignments there and I go, not today.

Speaker 2: 13:44

Okay, it called the attorney and I was like what do we need? And I did this for those three deals and I was like what do we need? I know we've been working on it for two and a half months here. In 18 hours I cleared both or all the titles on them. I went and found them, tracked down like the great answer went to the funeral. I was like, look, I know they just died, but I need to sign this paperwork, whatever it took, because I was leaving that job no matter what. And I started realizing, hey, I didn't have to fight any other investors for this, I just had to fight the title officer and go find this person, that's it. So I realized, hey, that's my most profitable, I don't have to fight anybody for it, I just have to be really good at finding people and solving the title issues.

Speaker 1: 14:22

Yeah, but, like to most investors, what, like what you just said is like dude, it's also like the most time intensive deals. Yeah, and you're talking about you're quitting a W like you needed proof to quit your W too, and then you're like I'm going to go through the deals to take the longest to close. I get it, you're finding people and you're getting, but, like, typically the messy title deals are the ones that end up being an escrow for like six months, 90 day closings. Where's like, dude, we're out here, we're pumping stuff out in 14, 21 days, like was it that a concern for you? Oh, a hundred percent.

Speaker 2: 15:01

So I'll tell you the reason behind that is. So I drove an hour and a half one way for work hour and a half one way back. So three hours drive time, okay. Then I'm working in the office for eight hours, so I don't have enough time to go sit there. And this was before mass, mass texting was really a thing. But I had to be really efficient for my 30 minutes during lunch or 45 minutes after work. So I knew, hey, if I didn't have to sit there and call a thousand sellers, I only had to call 20 or 30 or let's say maybe a hundred, and so I was willing to discount that versus the time that I didn't have.

Speaker 1: 15:37

So there's more about the acquisitions, like you didn't have time for acquisitions, so you're like, if it takes me more time to clear up the title, that's okay, cause at least I have three or four deals in escrow.

Speaker 2: 15:48

Yes.

Speaker 1: 15:50

Ah, yeah, and my spreads were bigger.

Speaker 2: 15:52

So I was willing to do it.

Speaker 1: 15:54

I see that's pretty so once you quit it, like once you're in it, though, like oh yeah, then we go for whatever the deals are messy title deals In comparison to like just a normal deal for you now.

Speaker 2: 16:06

Um so so we went flip heavy in Q3, q4. Um, we were buying like two a week in Q3, q4. Yeah, it was insane. Our officer was like, are you whole selling anything? And I was like no, we're buying them. Um, I'd say so 2023, we kind of shifted off to more buying because we raised a lot of private capital and I would say probably 15, 20% were messy title. And then now we're getting back to hey, we're about 60% is messy title.

Speaker 1: 16:33

And are you still taking everything down?

Speaker 2: 16:37

No, no, Mike, I don't want more gray hairs.

Speaker 1: 16:40

Ah, so you, you, you did so. You listened to the titanium vault when you got started and apparently you stopped listening. Yeah, cause you haven't listened to me where I say, hey, don't, don't take everything down. You didn't listen, man.

Speaker 2: 16:56

No, no, you fall into the flipper trap.

Speaker 1: 16:58

Yeah, that's what. Everything you. What were you looking at? You were like oh, I could make 20,000 if I assigned this, but I could make 50,000 if I flip it.

Speaker 2: 17:06

Yeah, I was like well, we got private money to burn, here we can do this.

Speaker 1: 17:10

Yeah, and then you walked away with 19,000 and you're like I could have made more if I could have sold it.

Speaker 2: 17:18

Our last deal of 2023 was literally. Net was like I think it's at least $20,000. I was like I think it was 80, 500 bucks on a flip and I go, no, we're not doing this, we're not doing this. It's like no, back to the whole sale side.

Speaker 1: 17:30

Yeah, that's, that's net. If you're free, yeah Right. You, your time, your effort, your energy, there's no expense of that. That's just you get $8,500 for all of that. Yeah, it's a miserable existence. So so, when you're doing these messy title deals because, like I've had Logan Fulmer on here, so if you want to hear about crazy title, we literally went through his top 10 craziest messy title deals and I mean Logan is just on level than me. So how difficult are these messy title deals? And is it mainly like just like probate situations, like tracking down affidavit or airships, or like how messy are we talking?

Speaker 2: 18:16

So I call it. Is it worth the squeeze and I know Logan uses that phrase too is how much is it worth my time? Cause, like now, okay, I can go sit on a deal for a year, two years, but how much are we going to make? Obviously, if it's something we have to wait on like we had a deal that we waited three months because they didn't want to do probate so they were like, hey, we'll wait three months to do affidavit airship, perfectly fine, I'll sit on that all day long because we'll go make 40 K on the flip, I'll do that.

Speaker 2: 18:42

But I don't go after, like the ones where it's 20 errors and hey, it's title work from like 1905 or like 1920. We kind of hit our threshold of like is it worth the squeeze if it's below a number amount? So like if it's under 30,000, it takes us four or five months, okay, we'll probably do it. But if it's like 15 errors, we're going to make 2,500 bucks. Like, no, we cut that off. I'm glad you found the messy title deal, but we're not going to do it.

Speaker 1: 19:10

Well that. So let's talk about how you find in these deals, because marketing is like there's so many different shiny objects out there Right Nowadays. We've got the paper lead models. You talked about mass texting back in the day. Curious if you're still doing any of that cold calling list, pulling all this. Listen for everyone out there that's listening to things. Rj only just pulled every record out there. I do niche down my data. Okay, Don't hate me. Okay, I do a little bit of what McLean does. We're bringing on RSI, so so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so what are you doing as far as marketing and how do you find in your deals?

Speaker 2: 19:50

Yes, it does at the core of our operations. I'm just going to say that, okay, um, yeah.

Speaker 1: 19:56

So we weren't trying on.

Speaker 2: 19:57

Tyler, we know I was, yeah, I got on here before him so but uh, yeah, we run a pretty slow tech stack. Um, we don't have like 20, 30 different systems. I'll give you kind of a run down. What we use are sick Um, prop wire, prop stream, uh kind of skip tracing, uh, died, I know that's pretty much it, that's it. And we so we use smartphone for outbound cold calling. We don't do any mass text messaging, it's just the one-offs hey, mr Call, or if it's a very specific which I'm sure Tyler will go into, that it's how we mark it to it. But we do mainly cold call, doorknock. We don't do any mass mail, we do direct mail, but it's after a sequence of hey, we've attempted to call them maybe 10, 15 times. It's like, hey, I'm showing up at your door, which I'm known for Sending pizzas to people, and that really gets their attention.

Speaker 2: 20:48

I'll give you kind of a story on that is like we had a deal where there was eight airs and we could not get the last guy and I was like look, this guy's, he's got to be there. And I was like you know what, screw, and it's up in Ohio. And I was like look, where's the nearest Pizza Hut. And so I called the man and I've done this like I don't do it too often, but I mean enough times for me to know it. But I Called him. I go hey, look, I got a weird request. I'll give you like 15 bucks on Venmo. I need you write this message of my name and be like enjoy the pizza, give me a call. I sent like a pepperoni pizza, a chocolate cake, a doctor pepper, and I told the driver's like tell me who picks it, like who opens the door. And they were like yeah, sure, we'll tell you that. And the guy like laughs. He's like this is the best thing I've ever heard. I wish people do this all time. So they drop it off. And he's like yeah, this guy, um, he said the seller wasn't there, but he slamed the door. And I'm like okay, whatever.

Speaker 2: 21:48

Well, the next day I get a call from the seller's ex-wife and she's like Please help me. He's trying to beat me up. I'm like who are you? What's what's going on? I Delivered it to her ex's house. I and the new husband thought that she was cheating on him and she was like she's like honey, you about to get my ass beat. Like you need to help me right now. I go okay, what's your name? I found out like oh, she's the xy. And he goes are you cheating? She cheated on me with him. I'm like, no, no, no, you're good, you're good boy, like buddy, you're good, you're good, right, anyway. So she gives me her ex husband information because she had been talking to him, and she goes here's where he is. He's been here for like last six months. He's he changes number. Here's where he's at. If you need, if you need me, just use my number. But that's how we get a hold of like they're really hard people. Is we just send the pizza?

Speaker 1: 22:42

That is amazing, bro. I that's one of the most creative ways of tracking down a seller I've ever heard of, and I love the fact that it's pizza hut. Yeah right, yeah, you had to include pizza hut into this. I Would have loved that. Back in my pizza days, like you call me, I would have been like, even as a manager, I've been like I'm delivering this, like I want to be a part of this, like like operation over here, like I'm going, bro, I will tell you their height, their weight, their hair color, their eye color. I'll tell you everything in the contract.

Speaker 2: 23:22

I'll get this done.

Speaker 1: 23:23

Yeah, yeah, fuck it bro, let's do this. That's amazing. So yeah, how many times have you done that?

Speaker 2: 23:30

last year we did it Seven, like six or seven times. Yeah, by the time we get to that, it's like I mean, like I'm hunting you down.

Speaker 1: 23:39

Does it ever not work?

Speaker 2: 23:42

Australia. I sent one to Australia and the guy emailed me and he said thanks for the pizza, but I'm not, so it was so funny thing is it's cheaper to deliver a pizza in Australia than it is to do international mail. It was like yeah, it was like thirty seven dollars to send him a little like normal letter. And then I called. I was like hey, what's the conversion rate? And the guys like, oh, it's like 17 dollars plus the delivery. He's like that's 23, 24 bucks. I'm like yeah and plus. I'll know today.

Speaker 1: 24:11

Exactly, you're not just waiting. So in those scenarios, what do you do? Like someone won't sign it, it just is it dead. Or do you kind of go the path of what Logan does, where he starts like divvying it up and like buying percentages and all kinds of yeah, no.

Speaker 2: 24:27

So Not like, knock on wood. Um, we have a we've like a hundred percent ratio on everyone signing. I don't know if it's because I just really I played the lost puppy. I'm like, hey, look, I I'm just trying to help them and this is what we got and I had not. To this day, I have not had to pay anybody for their interest. Everyone's been cooperative. They're like, oh, I'm cool with what's going on. So, knock on wood. We've had that perfect for the last two years. Um, if we have someone that holds out, we normally just hold out like if it's a family matter. Most times that's what it comes down to it's a family matter. So then it goes down to hey, what's our negotiation skills, what's our Counseling skills are? Is right, hey, I know Joe Smith is mad at Susie, like, who talks to Susie? Who talks to Joe? Okay, will you come help me, because we're just trying to help them.

Speaker 1: 25:17

That's funny, so I Think I had to look up where Greenville, texas, was when I met you. It's close to Dallas forward for those of you that don't know but it's it's like not a happen? Yeah, it's not a happen at place. Okay, so are you doing all of your deals in Greenville, or have you?

Speaker 2: 25:36

So we're painting out. So if it's, if it's a house nearby, I'll take it down myself. But we cover like East Texas, so like Think of 75 in Dallas all the way to Tyler, um Longview area and then we do some deals down in like Southwest Houston, south Houston. Oh yeah, like I gotta stay off the ringer sometimes.

Speaker 1: 25:57

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 25:59

But, uh, now most of our focus has been local. Just because we've gotten such a good reputation for Curing messy title that a lot of like the local realtors, investors, they're like, hey, you're gonna claim, take this, and so we honestly Don't have as much need to really focus on nationwide. Or hey, let's go to another state. I mean, obviously it'd be cool to do that, but the business is there and we're known for it as the years have gone on, like why kill it?

Speaker 1: 26:26

Yeah, absolutely. So let's talk. What is? What is your business look like as far as personnel? Is it Just you do? You have you brought team members on Alina. We keep in the business.

Speaker 2: 26:37

Yeah, no, no. I've gotten over that phase like, oh, I can do everything myself. Like, no, I know I'm like half being me's, but I'm not trying to do it all myself. No, we're good. So me we got two acquisitions. We got executive admin been the best thing I've ever done. Any listeners are Trying to hire their first VA. I hired the executive admin. I'm telling you like it will save your life. I do the Dispo just because we have our VIP buyers, two cold colors overseas, and that's our acquisition. That's, that's it. We do have a. The construction team got a project manager, so I'm not having to go there every day. That was like immediately once we hit three flips a month, I was like, yeah, we're not doing this.

Speaker 2: 27:19

Yeah but a project manager. We got our normal contractor stuff, so he knows all that and that's pretty much it.

Speaker 1: 27:27

That's cool, man. So the team is expanding. I mean, where, where do you want to go from here as far as, like, you want to continue to grow the team. You like the size of the team because I listen. I mean, over the course of the past decade, titanium has expanded and contracted like an accordion. So hopefully you don't fall the same path that I did, where you go all the way up to 74 and then decide, holy shit, life's terrible. Yeah, I can try it back down to two. So what it? What does it look like for you? Where do you what sides wise of your team? Where?

Speaker 2: 28:00

So, honestly, I'm happy around like that five to seven mark, obviously with Noah, our little baby I'm. I love beating, sorry, I love being able to Skip out me like, hey, I'm just gonna go home for the afternoon or hey, I'm gonna go enjoy my time because, like you said, there's a financial freedom. Then you hit that partner like Where's my time freedom? Like where do I get this at? So five to seven is perfect. We do run a hybrid model. That way, if we need to go in the office, we can, if not, work from home, whatever might be.

Speaker 2: 28:30

But if anyone's listening, my goal for 2024, I'll say this is I'm looking to raise a lot of money for syndications and debt funds. So, and and once you start know you know like wholesaling is never just the only thing you're focusing on. You're going hey, how do I use this to get to the next step? It's like flipping a house. You're gonna get something to stress fix it up, sell it, make more money, go in the next deal. So for me, wholesaling is not my only thing. It's going to raise more private capital, going to go on those bigger deals, eventually going into debt funds, raising millions of dollars to go buy other assets, even if it's not real estate.

Speaker 1: 29:09

So what kind of assets are we talking about? Is it is a multi family, where we're? We added?

Speaker 2: 29:16

More along like the businesses and obviously it's gonna be more of the. I've always had a thing for affordable housing. That's actually what my my specialty was whenever I was in software sales. It was affordable housing for the Northeast sector sector of the United States. And Listening to those operators talk and they're like, oh yeah, we just do a cost segregation plus we get our tax credits here and this, I'm like they're taking like millions of dollars of credits and they haven't done anything the property and they're just leaving it like this.

Speaker 2: 29:48

And then I would talk to like the West Coast, talk to California multi-family operators and they were like, oh man, we got to do this a class we're. We're squeezing out every dollar we can just to get conventional rent rates. So that's kind of been. My thing is. Then you're out into affordable housing on a bigger scale. Development is obviously the play for us. And then also looking for those businesses where it's the mom-and-pop, it's the hey, how can we Build this operation up? That has no? So peas, it's Larry in grandpa's head and he's got Alzheimer's kind of thing.

Speaker 1: 30:21

So so you're a Cody Sanchez fan now.

Speaker 2: 30:24

No, no, I'm an RJ Bates fans.

Speaker 1: 30:29

So, on that note about affordable housing, this is a hot topic. I'm part of the disruption Me and Chris Jefferson. We argue about this a lot. Cj is very passionate about affordable housing. I think he actually sits on the board of a charity nonprofit organization in Richmond, virginia Dedicated to affordable housing. So what do you think, as real estate investors, we can do to help create more affordable housing? Because, like listen, I get a lot of heat With some of the reels that I've been putting out about hedge funds are not the enemies. Everyone wants to blame hedge funds. Everyone wants to blame us as investors. We're the reason why house prices have been continued to increase. It has nothing to do with inflation or the cost of materials or anything else. It's all us, bro. We're the enemy. So what can we do to change that narrative, to fix and actually allow there to be affordable housing?

Speaker 2: 31:30

Yeah, honestly, I think it's. Number one is the stigma is yes, you do have your bad tenants and, on section a, hud vouchers, things like that, but you also have horrible tenants on conventional side. So Number one is getting rid of the stigma. If any one of your listeners is thinking about getting into affordable housing, call your local housing authority, even if it's in your local town. So, like out here where I live in Grievel. If I call them right now, they are 24 to 26 months behind on housing. So the clientele is there. It's just a matter of is there an investor that's willing to accept a voucher? And that's the hardest part. Whenever you talk to a Section 8 or a HUD voucher person, like they will tell you the amount of the investors that have told them I'm not taking your voucher, which, granted, obviously you run your background checks, you do everything you need to, but there's that stigma that they will not take it. Even with the regulations of hey, you have to at least accept the application and oh, why I?

Speaker 1: 32:30

this is what I don't understand.

Speaker 2: 32:32

I don't know it's a stigma.

Speaker 1: 32:34

It's guaranteed money.

Speaker 2: 32:36

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 32:37

I mean, dude, my opinion. I mean, if you go through an eviction, it's miserable. Yeah, I don't, I don't want to have to go through that. I mean, and also like the, the rules and regulations that they put down on the tenant themselves. We're like they can't tear your place down, like because then they'll lose the voucher forever. So it's like you, hey, dude, some you ran out of house for 1200 bucks. The random Joe blow, that's just giving you $1200 cash. They have no rules and regulations. They can tear your place up. Nothing happens that they'll long term. So to me it's always been a safer route. I don't understand this thing. But to be honest with you, I mean, how many rental properties do you have right now?

Speaker 2: 33:22

We got eight.

Speaker 1: 33:24

So what, how many of those are our section eight?

Speaker 2: 33:27

three.

Speaker 1: 33:27

Okay, do you like the three or the five?

Speaker 2: 33:32

Honestly, I like that the housing authority threatens them if they miss my day for Right. But like, I'll tell you it's some of the cleanest house. Like, okay, that's another thing that investors can do is If you have a decent product, because a lot of people think, oh, section eight. Like, yes, you do have your inspections, but you're held to that higher standard of, hey, does this window work, as it closed? Do you have safety alarms? You have the keyless locks? Like there is a higher standard there. Once you get into it, it's not. Oh, hey, it's a section eight house. It's horrible. It's hey, it's a decent house.

Speaker 2: 34:07

Because most of the people have had to put up with these investor houses that barely pass inspection. They're not gonna take care of that house, but whenever they move to yours they're so appreciative Like we have an older lady in one of ours, or she was living in like one bedroom apartment and she hated. She's like, oh, everyone's getting shot up in here and she was like I just need to move in this house. She's like I have a voucher for a two bedroom. If you'll keep it a two bedroom, I will move in. It's a block way for my daughter and she is maintained the property almost better than our owner finance people.

Speaker 1: 34:39

Yeah, I mean it could be a better situation for the landlord and and you're you're talking about 24 to 26 months behind on on inventory. It's insane. I mean I don't see any reason why more investors are not Accepting this and moving away from this stigma, because I think it's better for him long term. So you talked about sell. If I, you're doing everything.

Speaker 2: 35:07

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 35:08

Listen, titanium ball back in a day. You're literally falling in my footsteps right here. Holes they all? They don't think. Start flipping wrap up to so now you got wraps, so are the wraps of two wraps. Are you taking them and then refinancing them and wrapping them? How are you doing that? Both both you do everything bro.

Speaker 2: 35:29

So I hope I trademark this one day. It's we were doing reverse burr. So I'm gonna say Reverse burrs, okay. So everyone knows traditional burrs where it's hey, buying Refinery or fix it up, refinance all that stuff, okay. So what we were doing is was it before the interest rate hikes? I knew it was coming and I was like there's gonna be a point where the seasoning period gets taken up and you go from hey, I can do a cash out refinance with no seasoning to six months, twelve months. Okay, now it's like we're not doing cash out refinances. Last year. So I knew ahead of time hey, this is probably gonna happen, let's catch it ahead of time.

Speaker 2: 36:04

So we were buying properties to Eventually wrap them after we refinance them. What we would do is raise the private capital, go to the property because, remember, I knew my cost with my project manager. I knew my cost. So we would go in and take our project management fee on the front end 10, 15,000, whatever the assignment would have been Go rehab it, do a rate and term refinance, because there's no seasoning on rate and term refinance and Plus, we weren't taking any money out, so our interest rates weren't higher. And then all we did is either rented out or I did a wrap around refund or wrap around mortgage on it. But whenever all these investors in was a Q2, q3, q4, we're like, oh man, interest rates are horrible, we can't get our money out. We just fixed up this house. We're trying to cash out refi. I always sit in here like Should have read the fine print, guys.

Speaker 1: 36:54

Oh man, that's hilarious.

Speaker 2: 36:56

So yeah, reverseberg.

Speaker 1: 36:58

So, okay, you're gonna, you're gonna term that. Is that gonna be the? Yeah, it's gonna be my term.

Speaker 2: 37:03

I said it like two conferences him. No, the guys at do birds were like whoa, whoa, what he's, what he just say.

Speaker 1: 37:09

Is that the McLean method like?

Speaker 1: 37:11

yeah, nothing like like more pace as the morby method. I just I just did a reaction video to pace closing a deal and he's he literally pauses and he goes. This is I coined this term, I created this, it's called the morby method and I'm like Pace, I love you, bro, but you did not create this. Okay, so we're going to. I had the bursary bubble, but you're not the only bird. You did not create this. You might have created it in your head, yeah, but other people did it before you, so you're gonna talk about it.

Speaker 2: 37:46

That's a difference. They don't talk about it.

Speaker 1: 37:48

Yeah, you're like they did not brand it the McLean method, though, and I am, so I love it. So let's, let's talk about the fact. You brought up what you and Amanda went through and it just to get on the personal side things away from the business. I mean, I've watched your journey, you know, from afar on social media. That was a roller coaster of a ride there from. You know the fertility treatments and everything eventually leading to Noah. I mean, talk about that to the people that might be going through a similar situation and what's something you learned about it and how did y'all make it through that, because that had to have been a terribly difficult time.

Speaker 2: 38:29

Yeah, and I Know obviously I'm gonna have some listeners that like tune in this. I'm very big and like the RIS if community, all kind of so to stage here. I've been very big in like the RIS if community, obviously DFW, and Whenever I first started telling our story, I had a lot of people that come up to me at events. They're like Thank you for telling your story, cuz like we're going through it right now. Or like we've been there and no one talked about it. We didn't chills for right now, so but no, I'll tell you this is.

Speaker 2: 39:00

Fertility is the hardest thing that anyone can go through in this if anyone's going through it. There are other people going through, but you've got to know when to raise your hands, say like I had any help For me personally, like I will never go through the stuff that Amanda went through, where she had to take like hundreds of shots every day, like Like seven or eight shots a day, and I'm just staying there like okay, what's the next one we got to do? What's the next vile Okay, and the bruising, the emotional drama that comes with it. It's almost like a PTSD, because you're left with either a baby or you're not and you're like I did all this work and I don't have anything. So obviously Amanda has that scar and still from from that trauma, that event. So, like whenever we talk about it, yes, now we're to a point where, like hey, that was our journey, this is where we came from and we understand it and this is what we did to get through it.

Speaker 2: 39:51

And then, as a husband like for me it was the financial factor, obviously, and I kind of tell people whenever I talk to him I go it's a relay, is you're running your part of the relay as a husband, providing that financial ability that you wouldn't have had? If you're trying to get out your W2, if you're trying to build your business, if you're trying to get the money, you as a husband or sole provider, whoever it is, you're doing the first part and then, once you hand it off to your spouse, your wife, whoever might be, that's a whole nother battle itself. And so, emotionally, both of us went through our own races. If you will, and I'll never understand the motion she went through, she'll never understand the motions I went through. But whenever I talk to other people, they're like I'm I'm so glad you said that, I'm so glad you addressed that because People don't, people don't talk about that and that's the hardest thing is saying hey, I need help.

Speaker 1: 40:42

Did. A lot of people, a lot of men, don't want to talk about a lot of things on these types of topics, so I'll share my version of the story. It's in the same realm. It's not on fertility, but I did lose a child to a miscarriage and that's why I have the beard. No, no one. I've never really shared that before, or if I have, I don't remember doing it, but Going through the process of going in for the sonogram and they're not being a heartbeat, and and then having to go back to the hospital and you know that that was a child for me, you know, I mean I.

Speaker 1: 41:29

I Remember sitting in the, the hotel lobby and feeling so helpless as a man that there was nothing that I could do and I didn't understand. It was like why? Why did I have to go through this right, and I needed some sort of emotional release and For whatever reason, I made the decision. I'm gonna grow a big beard and I'm gonna keep it for the rest of my life and it'll always be my memory of the child that I lost and I Found a way to cope with the emotional pain one way or another.

Speaker 1: 42:17

There's still moments that I think back about it and it, it. It still gets to me where it's like I have two beautiful kids. Should I have three? Would I even have serenity if that baby had been born? Would it have been serenity? We don't know. I don't understand how things work, you know. So, going through that, when I when it happened, I found out that so many other dads had gone through this, but we don't talk about it. Why? Because we're men and we're stubborn. We just feel like we can't talk about emotions and what that does to us, and it's not the case. It's okay to talk about it and that's the thing I loved about you sharing yours in a man's journey was it's like, dude, I Was, I was riding the roller coaster with y'all why? I remember when it was like a we're starting and then at one point time you thought it was successful right.

Speaker 1: 43:15

Yeah and then it wasn't. And it was like I remember how heartbroken I was for you guys when y'all made that announcement. Talk about Noah and how that that came about and what that experience has been like.

Speaker 2: 43:30

Oh man, that's like a miracle in itself, I'll tell you. I'll tell you this real quick because I know Tyler's coming on On your next one and I hope it gets to him before he listens to this one. But I Got the call from Amanda whenever he did our first IVF transfer and I was at the Arias gift event in Florida and I remember she, she texted me, she said hey, it's positive. And To Crystal, frank, yosin, stephanie Shepherd were in the back room with me and we were getting donuts that I was like, oh my, I was like guys, I was like it worked, I can finally work. And they both were like what they're like it, everyone knew my story, that was there. And they were like all my word, like can you say that? I was like no, no, guys, just on. But also, like you said, is that that moment would have never gotten there and I never left my W2. So, with that being said, like those are those pivotal moments there. But Noah, noah has been Probably her whole story is honestly a blessing itself and I'll tell kind of. The highlight here before I go into it is we did whenever we did her baby dedication at church are Amanda, and then, like the youth pastor. They did the math. So the day we did our last IVF transfer would have been almost to the day her same time that she would have been conceived, and so whenever we adopted her was exactly nine months that we'd had her, so as if we carried her physically, like as a, as a fetus. But no, so we we'd lost our, our last embryo, probably the end of 2022.

Speaker 2: 45:13

And we were like, hey, this our second third attempt here, like, like, I'm getting frustrated. Obviously, it's already cost a couple, couple thousand dollars. Um, and I was frustrated. I was like, look, I don't want to keep seeing you go through the motions, the amount of shots. We had boxes like boxes of just needles and syringes. And I was like, look, I'm, I'm willing to take a break if you are.

Speaker 2: 45:36

And Maybe, like three weeks later, we're like, hey, because both my parents were adopted and we've always thought let's go ahead and let's start doing the adoption process. So it's always been on our radar. But, like, three weeks later, by January 20 was it 22, 20, sorry, january 23. We had a call. We're like, hey, there's a newborn baby, this family has her. Do you want to come meet her? And they were like no promises. We know y'all aren't certified yet to be foster parents. We just want you to come introduce yourself to baby no promises.

Speaker 2: 46:10

But this lady that has her has a historical record of every baby she gets gets adopted. Because the font like I don't know. If you know the the foster system. It is a. It is a Frickin circus and it takes years for people to adopt a kid. And we went through three different agencies and they were like, oh, you want to adopt a newborn, it's not gonna happen. You're gonna be waiting four or five years. Just say your prayers and let it go like it ain't gonna happen. So we got our licensing and Then three months later, we had Noah, which her name was different at the time.

Speaker 2: 46:43

We had her in our placement, ready for adoption within three months. Like everything was the tea that lawyers. The lawyers were like this is a miracle. I don't know how y'all did this.

Speaker 2: 46:53

The foster, the fostering agency, adam McKinney, was like we have done thousands of fostering and adoptions and we have never seen this happen, even with this family. That we know isn't anomaly, and Everything was just a blood, like it was to a tea. Like hey, her, her original name. It was Amanda's, it was Amanda's middle name, she or original name, she was like that was meant to be okay. No, it was actually a twin. Unfortunately the other one didn't make it. But the day she was born it was like this was all coinciding with other events in our lives. Like this is when we did the transfer, this whenever we had a miscarriage, this is whenever, like it was blessed and the whole way through the fostered the, we knew it was like meant to be, but the foster agency, they were like I Don't know what you have in your background, I don't know who is in your corner, but none of this should have happened. So I, none of it should have happened.

Speaker 2: 47:51

And it's been amazing, I'll say, as a father, it's definitely calling me down to where I'm, like I'm not here to do the business, to make money. I'm here to enjoy this. This is my life that I want now, obviously, that's why I've like, hey, let's hire an executive admin, let's hire a project manager. How do I spend more time with my kiddo? That's like my number one goal now is how do I spend more time with my kiddo? And now it's like what's my legacy look like for them? What does that reality? Because, like I'm going more in depth here and like, if the water works, kick on. Like I'm sorry, but Like I make the joke my dad literally came over on a boat from Vietnam Like there's CBS videos where it's the boat that he was on Came to Houston and he went to Buckner Orphanage in Dallas.

Speaker 2: 48:37

Like both my parents did not come to the US for me to play small and then I can only think, like, what's know is generation gonna look? Like what can I build for her or put her in a position to go? This is your, this is your legacy. Here we could be somewhere in Vietnam or somewhere in Mexico and you'd never have the opportunities you have here. So I'm really grateful for those opportunities like that and I know it's a whole another conversation, but the gratitude that I have from that is a very big driving factor for, like, what can I do before I leave this earth?

Speaker 1: 49:12

Yeah, well, and you know, becoming a dad Changes a lot of that too, right, yeah, you're, you're boy in a much different game when you're, when you come home every night and you're looking at your little one and you're like, when the years start evaporating, like for me I've got an 11 year old and a six year old. I Mean it's like dude. Yeah, seven years before he's 18 and he's out, it's like dude. We got to start playing the game faster over here. You know, yeah, more, more has to happen faster, because that time is evaporating and we talk about, we do it for the legacy and all that.

Speaker 1: 49:55

But it's like, what does that actually mean? Is it written down? Is it plain? Do you know what you're trying to accomplish? Because if it isn't, then you're, you're playing an endless game where there's never the accomplishment and that's been a big change for me over the past couple years is actually understanding what that plan looks like now. On that note, you guys, I Believe, have set a record. How many times have y'all gone to Disney? Yeah, yeah, there it all is. Look at those Mickey ears. Many years so yeah, so.

Speaker 2: 50:45

So we've been two times a year for last three years.

Speaker 1: 50:51

So you've been six and. And Amanda has won all of those.

Speaker 2: 50:56

No, no, she's won. No, she won the first one and then after that she paid for she like I'm going the next two, like I'll pay for it. I don't my sales and we're going and I'm like, please, no.

Speaker 1: 51:10

Cuz she, she sells sincey right. Yes, yeah, that's like how many damn balls of wax.

Speaker 2: 51:21

That's a whole nother room. That's what. That's the whole. You know, I'll tell this if there's any listeners. I'm just saying go get the disability pass and you'll like skip every line. Yeah, yeah. So it only took us three years to realize that is. Once you have that, you are gold. Like every ride takes 15, 20 minutes. You're good to go.

Speaker 1: 51:43

Oh, my goodness, listen here. All I'm saying is is that people call me the king closer, but in reality Amanda is the king clothes the queen closer. Okay, because of how much sincey she sells. She has to sell that much for y'all to keep doing. To. Do you go only to Disney or do you do universal?

Speaker 2: 52:03

But only Disney yeah.

Speaker 1: 52:08

Bro, universal is better.

Speaker 2: 52:10

I know, but like I don't ride the rides, amanda loves the rides and then so I'm stuck as the the Noah carrier because she can't go on all the right.

Speaker 1: 52:18

Why don't you ride the rides?

Speaker 2: 52:20

PTSD from my childhood oh.

Speaker 1: 52:26

Come on, but you have to write some of them.

Speaker 2: 52:29

Yeah, you know I've got. I wrote all of them this last time, so we're good. It only took me three years to write all of them, but yeah please, and bro, we're talking about Disney.

Speaker 1: 52:36

These are like children.

Speaker 2: 52:37

Hey, hey, hey. I was like for whenever I got intro'd to a roller coaster that went upside down.

Speaker 1: 52:45

What the shockwave?

Speaker 2: 52:47

Like a runaway. No, it was runaway mountain, oh.

Speaker 1: 52:52

Bro, and you were four. Dude, that's savage. I'm up my parents, my dad, put me on the shockwave when I was like five or six.

Speaker 1: 53:01

Oh, I'm scared for all the coasters. Yeah, if you don't know what the shockwave is because you're not from Dallas, forward, look it up. It's the one that's right by cowboy stadium. It's a double loop. It's scary. If you're five or six years old, you don't want to be on the shockwave, that's all I'm saying.

Speaker 1: 53:16

So, mcclain man, what an honor to have you on the titanium ball. Seriously, I I think the only reason why I waited this long to have you on is just because I was gonna be kind of sad the day that we finally did it. But I'm actually like sad that now my McClain interview, like you, were like one of the interviews that I wanted to do. That's like I'm running out of interviews I want to do. So. It's like, honestly, bro, you're kind of on like my, my Mount Rushmore of interviews to have, just because it's such a cool story. Man, I mean, you truly were listening to the podcast early on. It Like let's, let's not be confused about this. It was not purely RJ's content that you're listening to. It was the Daniel Moors, the Jason McDougals, the Nikola Spinoza's, like the people that we had back in the day early on. Those are the interviews and I don't know if you remember or not, man, but there used to be.

Speaker 1: 54:16

There used to be somewhat of a script to the titanium vault. Do you remember it? It was who are you, what do you do, how do you do it and why? That was the the original script of titanium vault. I've actually figured out how to interview people. After six and a half years I don't have to follow the script anymore.

Speaker 1: 54:35

But, dude, what a cool story and just across the board, man, congratulations on everything that you've accomplished. You should be just so proud of yourself, man. We again. Another thing the men don't say to each other that, hey, you should be proud of yourself, because not only did you find a way to leave the W2 and go create your own reality and do all that, you literally did it, unlike Anybody else like. You went out, you did it with the messy title, you did it with niche list. You didn't go out and say, hey, I'm just gonna pull the high absentee or high-activity or high equity absentee list, mass cold call. If I get deals, I get deals like no dude. You went out and you figured it out. You looked at your analytics. You said this is where I'm making the most money and I'm gonna make this work and you found a way to make yourself a beautiful life and a beautiful family over there. So thank you so much for being on the podcast today, man.

Speaker 2: 55:39

Yes, sir, thanks for having the podcast.

Speaker 1: 55:41

Absolutely All right, guys, you enjoyed the episode. Make sure you like the video You're listening. Give us a five-star review and just cuz, it's McClain's episode. We have to end it the way that I love ending it Okay, because McClain said it's the best podcast out there, you have to leave us a five-star review. If you didn't like it, for whatever reason, maybe it's because you don't like McClain, you don't like Disney, you wish you went the universal or something like that Go to Steve trains real estate disruptors Okay, and leave him a three-star review and Say RJ said to leave you a three-star review because I didn't like his podcast. Otherwise, don't leave me a review at all. All right, that's all I got for you guys. We appreciate you, mcclain. Your rocks. Our brother appreciate you man.

Speaker 2: 56:28

Awesome. Thanks for having me.