Arts Active Podcast
Transcript - Bonus episode: Interview with Tabea Debus (recorder) and Samuele Telari (accordion)
JJ
I'm delighted to be joined by Samuela Telari and Tabea Debus for a little chat about their concert that's coming up on April the first, in Eglwys Dewi Sant, and it will be part of the lunchtime series there that's being organised by Arts Active, so doors open at 12:30, I thought I'd get all of this in right now, and you can get tickets for that concert on Ticket Source online, and I'm sure at the door as well. So welcome Samuele and Tabea very good to meet you
Tabea
Hello.
JJ
So, tell me a little bit about how you met, first of all. Samuele you play accordion and Tabea, you play recorder.
Tabea
Yeah, we both were on the YCAT scheme for a while. So YCAT is a, sort of, management for young emerging artists and you have to go through, sort of, competition to get in. And I was… I joined in 2018 and I think Samuele you joined in 2019, didn't you?
Samuele
2019, yeah.
Tabea
Exactly. And that's how we, sort of, became aware of each other. And then YCAT always foster a, sort of, collaboration between their artists and so that's how it started. I think Samuele, you also collaborated with some… with a singer through YCAT and a string quartet, didn't you?
Samuele
Yeah.
Tabea
So it's a nice environment to try out these things.
JJ
And you found that there was this chemistry and also that your sounds matched well?
Samuele
Well, it was interesting because I guess I found that, I found with Tabea that that also recorder players are very curious as accordionists are because our instruments are probably not that much common. Like not... probably not the most played instruments, so we both, even though they are totally different instruments because one is very old and one is very new because of the repertoire, because of how the sound comes out from them, but in some in some ways, in lots of ways actually, we have lots of points of contact, like we play similar repertoire because also accordion plays lots of baroque, renaissance music and lots of contemporary. So we found that we had a lot of things in common and it was easy to go on.
JJ
It sounds quirky but beautiful, this mixture of old and new as you describe it, and the versatility of both instruments. Tabea, have you played a lot with accordion?
Tabea
No, this was the first time. I mean, we started sort of playing together in 2019 and then of course, there was a bit of a gap. We've come back to it again. But yeah, it was completely new for me, playing with accordion, and yeah, and just exploring different types of repertoire because we both bring our ideas, sort of, to the table or things that we know from our own repertoire that we think “Ohh this might work, let's try it.”
JJ
I can't wait to talk about the repertoire that you've chosen for this concert. First of all, let's just talk about your instruments, because, as you said, they're not perhaps the most common on the concert platform, and yet they are remarkably versatile. The first question I have for you is that, when I was training in a Conservatoire in Germany, accordions and recorders were actually quite common, and I would see quite a few of them in the corridors and people rehearsing them assiduously. Is that true, though? Let's just look at the UK. Do you feel that it's a passion that's shared as instruments that are trained at that level? In the UK.
Tabea
I think for the… speaking for the recorder, and there is a very lively recorder scene here in the UK
JJ
Great!
Tabea
With, yeah, lots of professional players, but also young, young players coming up and also in the UK we have a big, big amateur adult scene. So the SRP, the Society of recorded players, which actually we don't have so much in Germany, at least not to that level or extent that you have in the UK, I do feel that in Germany or German-speaking countries, maybe there are… there's just a higher number of young players who, sort of, commit to the recorder and stick with it, rather than switching to another instrument or higher.…
JJ
Why is that?
Tabea
I don't know. Maybe it's... I think it's definitely linked to this competition that we have called Jung Musiziert and it it's not really like the BBC Young Musician because Young Musician it's only, you know, the best of the best who get through to the finals but Jung Musiziert it as a really broad competition with loads of different categories each year. And there’s three rounds, you get points and everyone can get a first prize if everyone is really good.
JJ
That sounds more like an eisteddfod. You know, if you…
Tabea
Exactly, yeah.
JJ
The Welsh system of encouraging and celebrating youth music and beyond, yes, that's great.
Tabea
Exactly. And I think that's a really lovely way… I mean it's not everyone's cup of tea, of course, but - playing a competition - but I think that's maybe one element that, sort of, contributes to all instruments, but also the recorder still sort of having more young people coming up.
JJ
And what about you, Samuele? How much do we see the accordion in English places of training and conservatoires?
Samuele
I would say, well… I can say very…. I can be very… how to say… ‘on the point’ just because I didn't study there like I knew that probably in England you can study just in London in the Royal Academy of if you want, like, an academic education. In Scotland there is also quite good school so. I could probably… from what I could see over this year where I came quite regularly, of course, like almost everywhere is an instrument quite played in all the folk scene I know, especially in Scotland. They told me about this very famous Phil something, I don't know, very famous accordionist who play in…
JJ
Ah. So yes, the folk scene.
Samuele
I don't remember the name. Yeah, and that. And that's happened almost everywhere. Like, for each country when you go to the traditional music, almost every time you have accordion. But yeah, if you mean classical, probably it’s not that you can… also for listeners it's not very easy to listen to it. So it happened that lots of people, when they came to my concert. They said “It was the first time I listened something like this. I didn't know that accordion could play also.”
JJ
Wonderful. So there's a lot of originality to look forward to in this programme. I mean, you mentioned, Samuele, that accordion is normally pigeonholed as a folk instrument that plays traditional music and, Tabea, we could say, you know, the recorder, apart from its, kind of, descant variety at primary schools, is known mainly as a baroque instrument and that sort of repertoire. But I know that both of you, certainly looking at your programme, are keen to show and demonstrate that there's much more versatility and variety to be had with these instruments. Is that part of your artistic credo? Are you evangelistic for how broad and wide your repertoire can be? I'll start with Tabea.
Tabea
Well, I mean, maybe that's quite a strong word, evangelistic, but I think we just um… because they are not instruments that would have historically played together except in a folk, you know, setting where, you know, accordion or flutes or recorders or whistles or something. So we do a bit of folk, we like to include that sometimes, but yeah, I think we both just have very wide interests in what we generally do, whatever the setting or the instrumentation, um, and we also like especially to include contemporary music alongside, say, Bach or Dowland. And just because we know that if we package it right and if you get it right then actually audiences will really enjoy it and not only come maybe to hear a classical accordion for the first time, but also hear this music that they might not otherwise have been exposed to or enjoyed.
JJ
It is a beautiful programme, rich in variety. Let's just have a look at what you're playing. You mentioned John Dowland, famous for his lute music, of course, and songs - often very melancholic songs. And the first thing that strikes you, just looking at this programme is how beautifully themed it is, going between themes of melancholy, there's a secret theme going on as well. - three songs that allude to the word ‘secret’, so that has obviously got me very curious. Let's start with the Dowland. It seems there might be an issue around balance here with the lute being such a gentle accompanying instrument, how do you cope with issues of balance for this repertoire?
Tabea
I have to play loudly! No, no, I think what I like about playing this sort of music with accordion is it's lute music, so the Downland, the Flow my Tears is a lute song so lute and… But he also settled for a consort of instruments. So five viols or five recorders with a lute as well. So that already is a much stronger sound, maybe a bit more like an organ if you imagine, sort of, five recorders playing together. And then the step to the accordion, I think, is not that far anymore because, I mean, I, Samuele correct me if I'm wrong, but you also arrange or play organ music sometimes on accordion, don't you?
Samuele
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Tabea
So that's sort of how we got there. So thinking of the accordion as a sort of consort of instruments playing.
JJ
Oh beautiful. Yeah, that…
Tabea
Just because you can play all the consort parts at once and I follow the other.
JJ
And I can imagine that, as I say, this is quite lamenting music and melancholic, that actually both the tone of the accordion, the plangent tone and the beautiful sound of the recorder, as I've heard you play on several occasions now Tabea, and I know that you play it with such heart and commitment to the sound. I can really imagine that suiting this, you know, renaissance setting.
Tabea
Mm.
JJ
Can I just ask Samuele, let's speak about your compatriot Simone Cardini, who's from Rome, and there's this intriguingly titled piece, ‘Would you keep a Secret?’ And I noticed that when I visited his website, he likes curious titles. You've got here, La Tentation d’une Pensée – ‘The Temptation of a Thought’ - and a rather curious one. D’un Lucore Farinoso – ‘With a Flower-like Shine’ - or something like that, loosely translated. But tell us about this ‘Would you keep a secret?’ What's going on?
Samuele
So yeah, well, anyway, he loves to put these titles, like when you when you read it you have to ask yourself… he likes this, we had some discussion.
JJ
That's his thing.
Samuele
Yeah. Right.
JJ
OK.
Samuele
But in this case, well… we commissioned this piece because we premiered and played again a project with Tabea and a dancer as well Elisa Blasi.
JJ
Oh wow. A dancer. Was that a, sort of, a ballet dancer?
Samuele
Yeah.
JJ
Contemporary ballet was it?
Samuele
Yeah, we, the three of us were like were, like, of course me and Tabea the most of the time we were playing but not only playing so we moved, we used the space as well and it was kind of performance>
JJ
Beautiful.
Samuele
Very connected with music and movement and. In this programme we already commissioned another piece to Sylvia Lim, who wrote a very nice piece for double… not double bass recorder, like the…
Tabea
Contrabass.
Samuele
Contrabass recorder and accordion. And so we wanted a piece that could probably contrast a little bit because that piece was very, very into the sound, so we wanted maybe something much more probably with the rhythmic contrast with this kind of brightness and definitely we got that because it's a very demanding piece especially to match all the parts. And this title is just because we have these little fragments of melodies that all the time go from accordion to recorder. So, it's like when you tell someone a secret, so it's information that you pass and pass by
JJ
Love that.
Samuele
and every time it transforms itself.
JJ
So you're almost like whispering a secret to each other
Samuele
Yeah, yeah.
JJ
in the course of the music.
Tabea
Sometimes not really whispering because a lot of it is quite strong and, sort of, yeah. So maybe we're not keeping the secret.
JJ
A poorly-kept secret! And you're combining this wonderful new work with, I suppose, adoptions of songs by Brahms and Schubert, again called Geheimnis - Secret. That's a beautiful bit of programming. Tabea, just tell me a little bit more about those songs and how they fit on recorder..
Tabea
Yeah, so this programming that's sort of taken from a recording that we're doing later this year, which is all going to be all about secrets. So Dowland is there, and Holborn, because of the alleged, sort of, spy activity that they might have been involved in.
JJ
Ah.
Tabea
And then Bach for a, sort of, hidden messages in his music or you know, numbers for example.
JJ
I see.
Tabea
And then, of course, these two German songs, Brahms and Schubert, Geheimnis, which I have to admit is an area of music that I really as a player hardly ever venture into.
JJ
You mean lieder.
Tabea
Lieder, yeah because there's so much generally about the text and about, you know, the voice, obviously. But I am playing them on what we call a voice flute. Just to sort of [inaudible].
JJ
Wow, what does that look like?
Tabea
A voice flute is almost like a tenor. It's a little bit shorter than a tenor recorder.
JJ
Now listeners, you have to understand that last time I met Tabea, she brought a whole, I'm gonna call them a, sort of, a family of recorders. A [inaudible] a thicket of recorders. I have a great photo of you clutching these recorders that are, sort of, poking out of the hands and at various different sizes and you mentioned just before a wonderful contrabass recorder. How many recorders will you be playing on in this concert?
Tabea
Gosh, that's a good question. Let me just... One, two, three… probably seven or eight I reckon.
JJ
Seven or eight! You must have a suitcase for these.
Tabea
Yeah, but some of them are quite small, so they just go my rucksack.
JJ
OK.
Tabea
Yeah. And so the two - the Brahms and the Schubert, they're sort of Geheimnis, but it's more about, sort of, whispers of spring arriving and sort of the… what it might bring and sort of, you know, a sort of fresh beginning, sort of, wondering about the future and love, and that's sort of what the text talks about, which is why we're combining it with a madrigal from the renaissance period – Vestiva i Colli, which is also about spring, the arrival of spring and…
JJ
This is so Beautiful. You mentioned a recording. When will that be out do you think? When can we listen to it?
Tabea
When will it be out? That's a good question. We're recording at the beginning of August, I suspect, if we're lucky, maybe Christmas, but I don't want to get hopes up.
JJ
Well, that would be wonderful. A wonderful stocking filler. So look, Tabea Debus and Samuele Telari, thank you so much for joining me. A concert, then, of secrets and melancholic beauty to look forward to and it looks just so intriguing, not just the combination of instruments, but also this beautiful range of composers from Renaissance to contemporary that you‘ve chosen. Please do, listeners, go and support them. Tuesday the 1st of April in Eglwys Dewi Sant, in St Andrews Crescent, right in the centre of Cardiff. It's very easy to get to and it's got a beautiful acoustic. Tabea and Samuele, thank you very much.
Samuele
Thank you.
Tabea
Thank you.
