Upbeats: Season 5, Episode 5 (Braving Variations) Artwork

Braving the Stave

Hosted by Jonathan James and joined by Angharad Smith, a.k.a ‘JJ & Haz’ , this bubbly duo delve through all music and genres, sharing with you their personal favourite pieces, along with some musical jokes that add a playful and informal feel to the podcast. Working as part of Arts Active's Cardiff Classical programme, we run lots of exciting extras alongside it to support the concerts. Check out the Arts Active website for more - www.artsactive.org.uk
Got any comments for JJ and Haz? Email them to A2@artsactive.org.uk

Listen to the Braving the Stave playlist here
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Yn cael eu cyflwyno gan Jonathan James, yng nghwmni Angharad Smith, neu ‘JJ a Haz’ fel y’u gelwir, mae’r ddeuawd fyrlymus hon yn pori drwy bob math o gerddoriaeth a genres, gan rannu gyda chi eu hoff ddarnau personol, ynghyd â rhai jôcs cerddorol sy’n ychwanegu teimlad chwareus ac anffurfiol i’r podlediad. Gan weithio fel rhan o'r rhaglen Gyfres Glasurol Actifyddion Artistig, rydym yn cynnal llawer o bethau ychwanegol cyffrous ochr yn ochr ag ef i gefnogi'r cyngherddau. Edrychwch ar wefan Arts Active i gael mwy - www.artsactive.org.uk
Oes gennych chi unrhyw sylwadau i JJ a Haz? Anfonwch ebost i A2@artsactive.org.uk

Grandewch ar y rhestr chwarae Braving the Stave yma

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Braving the Stave

Upbeats: Season 5, Episode 5 (Braving Variations)

February 21, 2026 • Arts Active • Season 5 • Episode 5

0:00 | 36:29

After busting the February blues with some jolly tunes, JJ tries to convince Haz that Bach's Goldberg Variations are, indeed, brilliant. Also: Haz's Mari Lywd experience, what 'Rachpag' means, and top tips for chamber musicians that involve good cake.

Ar ôl ymladd y tristwch Chwefror gyda rhai caneuon llawen, mae JJ yn ceisio perswadio Haz bod Amrywiadau Goldberg gan Bach, mewn gwirionedd, yn wych. Hefyd: profiad Mari Lywd gan Haz, yr hyn mae 'Rachpag' yn ei olygu, a chynghorion gorau i gerddorion siambr sydd yn cynnwys cacen dda.

Listen to the Braving the Stave playlist here

Grandewch ar y rhestr chwarae Braving the Stave yma

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Hello and welcome to Braving the Stave with me, JJ.

How are you, Haz?

Why?
Haz
I know.
JJ
It's February. What's going on?

You're beaming.

I know. And I've got coffee all down me. I don't look my best right now, but I just feel amazing. I don't know what it is. I'm just really enjoying life at the moment. Oh no, this is awful, isn't it?

Full of the joys of life.

Give me some. How does it work?

Well, I've just been doing a lot of bunting. I've been crafting.

Yeah, a lot of crafting. I've been going to the beach, collecting shells.

When you craft, what do you, how does that look? How does that work?

Exactly as you're imagining, like a witch in her little cottage, just being on her own and making bunting, that's basically it.

Wow, so actual bunting for general purpose?

For my sister's baby shower. It's always a purpose, but you know, I've been going on walks. I went up to a local church and I saw the Mari LLwyd.

Now how was that? Because we did, did we talk about Mari LLwyd?
Haz
Yeah.
JJ
So this is a lovely Welsh tradition. Well, I say lovely….

It's terrifying. It depends how it's done, right?

It was done, I'm not going to say shoddily, it was done with the best intention. It was beautiful, but it was just two blokes in sheets and horses' skulls prancing about while a man in a recorder played a little ditty.

I'm just wondering how do they get hold of a horse's skull? That, in itself, is a bit creepy, unless it's plastic.

I don't know, but apparently he'd come all the way from Ystradgynlais, so a pretty long way down the road. And I only went out of spite because my brother-in-law bet me a tenner I wouldn't go because it was like...

That's the spirit.

That's what we want for a good Mari LLwyd.

So, I'm happy, I'm spiteful and I'm 10 quid up.

Oh, well, well done.

Thank you. Now tell me about you, because we are sitting in the most beautiful, beautiful living room.

I've just moved. We've just moved just 5 minutes up the road, but it feels like a different universe, really, and very grateful to be here and I never knew I could be so interested in whether Cinnamon is a warm colour or the difference between Satsuma and Moroccan Orange or whatever. Stupid names!

What's the colour on the wall over there, yard party?

Because nothing says light green, like ‘yard play.’

It's beautiful here and it's so you. It's cushy and cosy but spacious. The light’s coming in. You've got all your stuff away. You've prepared a tea for me.

We haven't done bad.

No, it's gorgeous.

I know. We're very lucky. So I just thought we could kick off actually with a treasure swap for those people who might not be feeling the joys of the season quite as much as we are. For it is deep and dark February as we record.

Yeah, And there's nothing to, like, look forward to. And not even, like, I don't know, what's the Halloween for couples?

Valentine's Day.
JJ
Oh! That’s Halloween for couples!!
Haz
I was like, “what is it? What is it?” 14th of February. That's the only thing to look forward to. And shops have already got their Easter stuff out. And it's a bit like, ugh, so we're going to be obnoxiously happy.

And do a treasure shop. Swap. Shop? Swap,
JJ
Swap I think.
Haz
Based on happiness.

Okay, great. And music to, sort of, bust the mood, to elevate the soul, that sort of thing.
Haz
Yeah.
JJ
Just in case you needed that with all the floods that are happening at the moment. Let's start with yours.

Perfect. So I'm going to go with a band called Lunasa.

I believe. I'm probably saying it wrong, but if I am, no one should mind because, you know, this is just one life.

It sounds kind of Latin American or something.

Exactly. They're probably from Ireland. Who knows? Look them up. And this is called Morning Nightcap. And whenever I feel really grumpy and I don't want to take the dog for a walk and she looks at me like, ‘please give me my basic needs’, I just stick this on in my ear holes and go for a tramp around the fields, listening to this, walking my dog. Perfect.

Beautiful.

[Music plays]

Eh, eh, eh, eh… Do you like it?

It's… it's so jolly.

Welcome to Countryfile. This is your BBC.

I feel a ceilidh coming on.

Yeah, there's plenty of room to do a little Irish jig around in this place.

Haz is exaggerating, dear listeners. It's not.

It’s gorge… ! It's a mansion. It's stunning. Perfect for Irish dancing. We can all dance in a line.

It’s a three up two down. It's honestly, I think a ceilidh would be a little cramped, but maybe that would be keeping in the spirit of things.
Haz
You like it then?
JJ
Yeah, I love that music and I'm feeling my mood has been busted.
Haz
Yeah
JJ
Not that I needed it, frankly, because I was already, you know, you're here and we're having a fun time. Do you know, I don't want to read another study into how music elevates the mood because it's, you know, it’s pointless statistics. I saw one on Classic FM recently that said 94% of people reported that they felt happier after listening to this piece of music. As if, and you know, when you get into stats like that, you might as well just not bother.

It's like, and water is wet. You're like, ‘ah wonderful! Thank you so much for letting us know.’ Obviously, we're not in it for the money. No one does music for, like, the mortgage, do they? Like we do it because we love it and it makes us happy and yeah, of course.

So if you're listening, we don't want to hear anything more about dopamine being released or serotonin levels going up or cortisol levels going down. We know this, don't we?

Just listen to some music, guys.

Just get into the music, be artistic and enjoy it.

And dance a jig.

So, here's my treasure swap for you. which I think will take us into a very chilled but sun-warmed place. And it's a transcription made by Víkingur Ólafsson, who is, you know, just one of the biggest piano stars at the moment. And he's done this transcription of Rameau of a short orchestral piece called The Arts and the Hours. And I think what's going on here is that Rameau is just spending time. So, it's got that lovely, spacious feel to it, and it feels sunlit.
Haz
Oooh.

[Music plays]

JJ
Interrupted cadence, everybody.

That's not what I was expecting.

Isn't that very calming?

It is very calming. It's less frantic happiness. It's more of a quiet, contemplative, contentment happiness.

Yes, exactly. I'm ready to meditate now.

There's a simplicity to it, and, also in terms of how I'm going to call him Vikungur. I feel that, were I interviewing him, he'd be fine with that.

I think he'd probably say, ‘Hey, yeah.’ He'd call you JJ for sure.

Doesn't flow off the tongue though, Vikungur. OK, so I think he brings a beautiful lucidity to the touch and that brings out the clarity of this music. And I know my parents went to see him play Bach in the Beacon here in Bristol.
Haz
Oh wow.
JJ
And he just enthralled them, you know. And there are few pianists that I think can do that over the course of a two-hour solo recital.

Actually, mentioning Bach, that takes us rather neatly to the concert that we are plugging, for Ensemble 360 on Tuesday the 3rd of March in Eglwys Dewi Sant, where else?

Of course, the number one.

Doors open at 12.30 and they are playing, actually, some Bach as well, some - I say as well - that piece that we just heard by Vikungur, my mate Vikungur was, let us remember, Rameau, from Les Boréades, if you're looking it up. So, Ensemble 360, so-called because they developed or evolved from something called Music in the Round in the Crucible Studio Theatre in Sheffield, back in 2005. And there was a whole, well, the whole experience, the whole theatrical experience is about being in the round. And they were continuing the legacy of the Lindsay String Quartet who used to play in the round, so facing each other.

That's really cool. I'm really into the idea of breaking down audience and then performers in that, because then you have a backstage where you feel like the audience don't ever get parts of, or they never get to see it. So seeing the expressions and you all looking at each other and giving musically on stage is quite enjoyable, I think, for an audience.

I wonder if there's one of those revolving…

…platforms, you know what I mean? And not during the music, but so, just doing…
Haz
Like a lazy Susan.
JJ
That would not be a good look.
Haz
Ok.
JJ
Not a good look. But just, you know, they do a 90-degree pivot each movement or something, so the audience gets a new aspect. That would be cool.

And a new outfit. Maybe one of them put on a hat.

I think we're raising hopes too much for Eglyws Dewi Sant on March the 3rd. Now, back to Bach. What are they playing? They're doing the famous Goldberg variations. And when I say they, this is actually a string trio taken from this collective of 11 musicians that makes up the entire ensemble. And it's made up of a violin, a viola and a cello. And they're doing the famous arrangement by Sitkovetsky, Dmitry Sitkovetsky, who back in 1985 did this trio version of the entire 30 variations of the Goldberg theme.

Now you said the word famous twice now and I feel like, as a fraud, I should out myself here. I'm, like, nodding along and I do this when anything sounds really, like, high culture. or famous or well-known, I'm just like ‘Mmm. How indeed’.

No, you're right to call me out because it isn't that famous.

Well, I don't know them that well. And as soon as you say like 30 variations, I'm like, oh, can't be bothered. Because it's like getting into something and you're like, oh, how many seasons are there? There's 7. Oh, I won't bother. Do you know what I mean, how many variations are there? 30. Nah, not going to bother.

You'd be right. In the hands of a lesser composer, this could be a very boring concert, even with the art and craft that is Ensemble 360.

Yeah, even with all the showmanship and the acrobatics and the hat-changing.

Even all the nudity and the dogs
Haz
The spinning sticks. Exactly.
JJ
And the seals and everything else.
Haz
The pyro.
JJ
Yeah. Even then. But luckily we're talking about Bach now. This particular set of 30 variations is just exquisitely put together as we can, sort of, predict really with Bach. It was written in 1741 and each set of variations, there's three sets of 10 variations, and they each have a different personality. The first set is, I suppose, more sprightly and virtuosic. You’re looking at me as if to say ‘You're not really selling the whole 30 variations.’

Glazed eyes. I'm already back on Vinted like, ‘Ah hah, ah hah.’ No, it's great.

Every third, every third variation is a canon at a different degree.

This is what I think of when you say Goldberg variations. I'm like ‘Mmhm, mhmm.’
JJ
Oh dear.
Haz
Okay, so just… it's cool, right?

Well, yes. Now listen, let's just play the, I was about to say famous, but let's just play the aria.

Mostly well known by most people.

The theme. which I'm sure you recognize and this will immediately captivate you. It just invites variation I think.

[Music plays]

Yeah, it invites variation for sure. Yes.

You're right, that did sound a bit backhanded as compliments go.

What a mean thing to say. ‘It invites variation, actually.’

I suppose I thought I was saying it's got a simplicity of melodic line and a clear harmonic progression.

Dig that hole, JJ. But I know what you mean. There is some space there. You could add some more muchness to it.

It's so peaceful.

Oh,it repeats, does it? Lord.

This is a hard sell.
Haz
Yeah.
JJ
You know, Ensemble 360 are going to do a great job with this. And I think it is the variety, what we always look forward to with variations is not just the skill of the composer, but also of the performers in, sort of, lifting each variation into a different colour, a new light, and to say something new about the theme.

I know. I was being horrible, sorry. It is lovely. And it is exciting to think what they will do with each variation. Yes, I, yeah, you're right. Begrudgingly though I say.

Begrudgingly. Well, I thought we could just skip ahead to the 30th, so the final variation.
Haz
Thank. Goodness.
JJ
Which is called the quodlibet.
Haz
Oooh!
JJ
Because it quotes actually folk music as well, so a famous folk song of the day alongside following the form of the theme. And yeah, I just, I agree with you that themes and variations can be very repetitious if it's just used as a virtuoso showpiece. You know, you think of piano composers, who just uses use this kind of form to show off how quickly they can dash across the keyboard.

That's it. ‘And now I can do it in fifths and now I can do it in triplets.’

Upside down. Blindfolded.

And with my buttocks.

Yeah, exactly. Completely naked. But yeah, let's listen to how it sounds in the end.

Okay, here we go.

[Music plays]

JJ
I bet you want to know what a quodlibet is.

Oh boy do I. Please.

I had to look this one up.

Now, firstly, I was rather put off by this meaning; a topic or exercise in philosophical or theological discussion. It's not helping the cause is it? No, but actually, second meaning, much more on point, is a light-hearted medley of well-known tunes.

And it is a lovely broad folk song that is going on above.

I've never, yeah, I just feel like, I think... I would love to see it live.

Another backhanded compliment.

No, it's not. Yeah, it's like, ‘Oh, she's really funny in person.’ ‘She doesn't photograph well. She looks way better in real life’. You're like ‘Mmhm.’ But I would love to see this, especially as these players are renowned for being in the round. Like they know how to perform, they know how to give musically. So yeah.

Yes, I think it's going to be a very engaging performance. So Tuesday, 3rd of March, if you're listening in time, do go and see Ensemble 360 or at least a trio from that wonderful collective, bring this theme of variations alive in Eglwys Dewi Sant.

Talking of theme and variations, because we love the genre so much, this form, there are some beautiful examples, aren’t there?

Across the eras.

There are. May I please give you one?
JJ
Yes.
Haz
And then I'll show you my duo example.

We should say this is one of the older forms. I mean, it's been with us since Renaissance times and I mentioned how virtuosos or virtuosi used to enjoy using them as a vehicle for showing off, but I think it's also about composers wanting to go deep into their craft as well and saying what... What new things can I get out of this simple chord progression?

I do, but then also the cynic in me is like, when me and my sister would play duo gigs, when we were first starting out, we didn't have enough rep. So we would just, because we both play by ear anyway, we'd play something and then she'd like wink at me and then we'd play it like with a Latin groove. And then we'd play it again, like really slowly. Then we'd play it like twice through, twice the tempo. And I think sometimes there's a chance for... I don't know, performers to have some fun and joke around with each other as well.
JJ
Yeah.
Haz
Or just, it's like bantering between each other, especially, I mean, not in my case, but if the performers are world-class, amazing instrumentalists, it's a good chance to see them interact with someone who's on their level.

Yeah, okay, so a platform or a springboard into some... Improvisation and collaboration in a way.

Do you know, I never thought of it like that but I think that's how it's meant to sound, even when it's been composed and, it's meant to have that fresh spontaneity to it.

Yeah, like ‘What about this one?’ Oh, like, yeah, listen to this one.

Try it this way.

So what is your choice? What's your fave?

So my… I didn't even have to think twice when I'm thinking about this one here - this one ‘ere - because I'm going to go for the Passacaglia. The Handels-Halverson Passacaglia. And the one I know of this is the Perlman-Zuckerman violin and viola duo. When they played this, I saw it on YouTube back in the day when, you know, like, YouTube was just starting out. And I remember thinking it was the most amazing thing I'd ever seen because Perlman’s sitting down, obviously, And Zuckerman's just holding his fiddle while he, while he gets all sorted, then you pass it back and they just look like two mates on stage, like, ‘Right, yeah, you, yeah, let's play some music.’ And then they just play this. most amazing duo together when they're both equally matched, equally skilled. The viola doesn't sound like a viola, and that's another barbed comment, but I mean like it sounds as sprightly and virtuosic as a violin, but as sonorous as a cello. It just has everything you want, everything you want.

Beautiful. And they used to do this duo quite a lot, didn't they?
Haz
Yeah, it was like…
JJ
A party piece, almost.

Exactly, but I love that, ‘Oh, let's do this one.’ And, like, but they pull it around with each other and you can tell that they're having fun, which again sounds like such a cliche thing to say, but even as a musician, like, watching other musicians have fun, I'm just like, oh, isn't that great?

Can we call it famous, this Halverson duo?

Oh yeah, well it's famous to me, so it doesn't matter in the broad scene. But yeah, I would say it's the famous Halverson duo, which I just realised, and by realised, I mean Googled, was actually based on a harpsichord suite thing.

Ah. Okay, let's see if we can hear how it's, you know, might have belonged to that world.

[Music plays]

There's something very bronze-like about the quality of the recording and their sound. I don't know when this was recorded, it feels as if it was back in the 80s or something.

Yeah. Yeah, you can tell they're smiling when they're doing this as well. I just, I love how they make it sound so easy, but, and they, you know, they have to give and take, so when they're doing the hard bit, the other person just... eases off the pedal a little bit and then vice versa.

And yeah. So definitely didn't Google, but if I were to, I would probably say that Halverson was a Norwegian composer, Johan Halverson, and he rearranged Handel's harpsichord suite in G minor. And so Halverson did that in 1894.

1894, thank you.

Excellent year. Excellent year. Yeah.

It seems so. I'm so glad because I did not know who Halverson was and why it was called the Halverson duo. So that's great. And I can imagine this on the piano. Yeah, it seems quite contrapuntal and left hand, right hand sort of balance there I can hear.

But also I think maybe the player notices it more if you're playing the piano between the left hand and the right hand. But with the string players, it's more, you can see it visually and aurally as well. You can hear when they swap over the main parts.

And yeah, it's just great fun.

It is beautiful. Thank you for bringing that back to my attention because yes, I have heard it. I have heard it, definitely.

I can hear you getting distracted as it gets harder and harder. It's like, ‘Good God.’
JJ
‘What's going on?!’
Haz
I know, I know!

Right, time for a bit of Rach Pag, as they say.
Haz
What did you call me?!
JJ
No, Rach Pag, just so we're clear.

Rach Pag.
Haz
Got it.
JJ
That's right. Rachmaninoff Paganini variations.
Haz
Yeah.
JJ
Abbreviated in the industry to Rach Pag.

And we abbreviate it because it takes less time to say, but that entire thing took longer to say to explain it to me. So thank you, Rach Pag. Got it.

That wasn't an insult, which I can now hear. Thank you for that. I'm sure. Be sure to avoid that. So yes, I, for me, growing up, I used to listen to these Paganini variations by Rachmaninoff. I think possibly every night when I was a kid, a certain way I had a certain obsessive phase maybe, but it would lull me to sleep. And I invented all sorts of stories around each variation. There's a, I don't know, a kind of, yeah, a storytelling quality, I think, to just how vivacious the writing is. And the most ethereal, I think, of them all. I'm not going to play the famous 18th one. I’m…It's the 15th, actually.

It's the 18th, sorry, is that duh, de duh li a duh, de duh li a… No.

No, that's the theme.

Oh, sorry. Ha ha ha!

The 18th is where he, sort of, inverts that theme and creates this beautiful...
Haz
Ohh.
JJ
Dee ya dah dah dee, ya dah dah dee. So that is, yeah, the romantic one of the set
Haz
Got it.
JJ
That everybody, kind of learns just by itself as a party piece.

Aha. But we're not interested in that. We're interested in the 15th.

The 15th because it's so spry and light and just nods to the original theme while creating a completely different world.

[Music plays]

Isn't that perfect?

That's so good isn’t it. I was just waiting for it to resolve then, and I didn't expect that.

It's a beautiful little pause before that very final resolution isn’t it.

Yeah, that's cheeky.

Will-o’-the-wisp, I think. It's got that quality.

Nice. It's also, I don't know because it's so fast or so technical, but I feel like it's way more modern than I was expecting of a Paganini variation.

That was Vladimir Ashkenazi, by the way, and I should know the orchestra with whom he's playing. I hate it actually when people don't name check the orchestra as a collaborative partner. So one second.

You got in there.

LSO, London Symphony Orchestra with Previn. There, we did it.

That'll learn me, won’t it.

So I just wanted to share one more thing before we sign off, which is I've just been asked to join a piano trio.

What an honour.

What an honour.

That's a big thing. There's only… okay, I don't mean to be really highbrow here, but there are three players in a trio. So to be asked to be part of that is a big thing because you are forming a tripod and you're, you know… it’s not…

Yeah, I do feel honoured. And we had our first rehearsal back on the weekend and it felt good. There was good cake, which I think is very important for good.... It's good rehearsal ethics, isn't it?

That’s… Good cake, good vibes.

Exactly. Somebody had, well, the cellist, Helen, had brought this, her very own... Millionaire shortbread.

Oh yeah, she's a keeper. Yeah, that sounds like a winner to me.

Absolutely. What other top tips do you have for chamber musicians?

Well, again, if you, like, look online or read anything, it says that chamber musicians should focus on active listening and collaborative rehearsal techniques.

That’s like saying music is good for the soul.

You're like, ‘Yeah, don't be an idiot.’ But essentially, if you can share a lift with someone in the car and be, you know, two hours on the way to a freezing cold church, then you're probably going to get on.

Yes, that's a good measure. Yes. Okay.
Haz
Okay, so…
JJ
Early days, I can see it happening now. I think we'd have enough to talk about and… or just be comfortable in, you know, companionable science. Yeah. Okay. So tick on that one. Any other tips?

Yes, I have thousands. So, something we say in my family is you have to take it in turns to be the big sister.

So that basically means.

Yes, well, it just basically means like, don't worry, I've got this. And then sometimes one of my younger sisters would be like, yeah, don't worry, I'll look after this or I'll do this. And you take it in turns to have the lead. And that means like, in terms of, you know, just playing or in a concert or driving or liaising or sending thousands of emails that you don't need a PAT certificate because you don't actually have any amplification. You know like all that stuff you have to go through. You take it in turns to take the brunt of admin or just, yeah, the heavy load.

So cake, co-leadership, and...

Lifts. Well, companionable silence. I'm going to say that's really what we're talking about when we go on a long journey, is not feeling the need necessarily to fill it.

Yeah. You don't want to get to a car and someone's like ‘What are your views on?’ And you're like ‘Ugh.’ Unless, unless it's, like, scientology or something, then you're like, ‘Great, lock the doors, let's get in. Let's talk about conspiracy theories for, like, three hours.’ But other than that, you just want to be able to vibe with them, which is such a stupid, pointless term, but just get on.

Well, I'm going to work on my baking skills, which are frankly non-existent at the moment.

Ha ha ha! But that shows willing, see. So you're willing to learn.
JJ
I can do quiche. Is that okay?
Haz
That sounds really difficult. Yeah.

So maybe I would just share with you, just to get us in the mood of all things piano trio, just the opening to this wonderful Brahms piano trio, Number One, an early piece of his in B major.

The famous one.

The famous one. So famous!
Haz
Yeah.
JJ
Oh this is ridiculous. And it's so generous as well though, this opening theme. It just rolls out like a carpet and is…
Haz
Ooh.
JJ
Again, it takes us back to mood busting February pieces, you know, just to make us feel warm on the inside.

[Music plays]

Haz

That is so lovely and it works also as a mood booster.

Doesn't it though? Yeah.

Become full circle.

Are you feeling warm on the inside?

It affirms life, doesn't it?

Yeah, I actually am and I was determined not to like it because I was like ‘Famous, is it? It's on the radio every other song, is it?’ But, actually, I don't know it and more fool me.

It's a beautiful trio by Brahms and yes, we shall be putting that on the playlist along with all the other items from today's podcast. So do check out the Braving the Stave podcast playlist, available on Spotify. And if you're listening to this in time, get along to Ensemble 360 to have a bit of Goldberg magic.

I think I might actually go. Because I think I might be free and I might go.

Just so I can actually see them in person and also so I can clap loudly at the end and not seem like such a cow for saying that the variations are such a terrible theme, you know?

It will be beautiful and look, do report back on it next podcast and until then. I thought we could listen to something equally jolly from a very different world, just to see us out, keeping the mood-busting theme going.

This is I Smile by Kirk Franklin and his choir. And it's gospel and you can't help but bop along and smile to this.

[Music plays]

Stick that on right now and we're going to dance around the kitchen.
JJ
Hwyl fawr
Haz
Hwyl.