Shades & Layers
Shades and Layers is a podcast focused on black women entrepreneurs from across the globe. It is a platform for exploring issues and challenges around business ownership, representation and holistic discussions about the meaning of sustainability in an increasingly complex global context. Conversations are wide- ranging and serve not only as a Masterclass in Entrepreneurship but also provide wisdom and tools for Successful Living. It is a space for meaningful conversation, a place for black and other women of color to be fully human and openly share their quirks and vulnerabilities.
Guests include prominent figurers in the beauty, fashion and wellness industries both in the Northern Hemisphere and the Global South.
Dr. Theo Mothoa-Frendo of USO Skincare discusses her journey from being product junkie to creating an African science-based skincare range. Taryn Gill of The Perfect Hair is a brand development whizz who discusses supply chain and distribution of her haircare brands. Katonya Breux discusses melanin and sunscreen and how she addresses the needs of a range of skin tones with her Unsun Cosmetics products.
We discuss inclusion in the wellness industry with Helen Rose Skincare and Yoga and Nectarines Founder , Day Bibb. Abiola Akani emphasizes non-performance in yoga with her IYA Wellness brand and Anesu Mbizho shares her journey to yoga and the ecosystem she's created through her business The Nest Space.
Fashion is all about handmade, custom made and circular production with featured guests like fashion designer Maria McCloy of Maria McCloy Accessories; Founder and textile/homeware designer Nkuli Mlangeni Berg of The Ninevites as well as Candice Lawrence, founder of the lighting design company Modern Gesture. These are just a few the conversations on the podcast over the past three years.
Shades & Layers
From Passionate Intern to World Class Designer - Palesa Mokubung Part 2 - (BONUS)
IN CONCLUSION
In the second part of this conversation with Palesa Mokubung, we discuss some of the challenges facing African designers, particularly when it comes to serving a market that is more and more shopping online.
We also get into the behind the scenes at Mantsho, Palesa's fashion brand as well as the Shades and Layers Rapid Fire.
Mantsho has been making waves in the fashion industry for the past 20 years, both in Palesa's home country, South Africa and more recently globally with an international collaboration with H&M. You can hear more about this in Part I of our conversaiton here: From Passionate Intern to World Class Designer (Palesa Mokubung Part 1)
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it's been trial and error. I've had great, great wins and many, many losses, but the fact that there are untapped uh, you know places, spaces, markets, is what keeps me going, because I'm built for a challenge I'm a creative period hello and welcome to shades and layers.
Palesa Mokubung:I'm I'm your host, Kutloano Skosana Ricci. And this is the conclusion of a two-part conversation with Palesa Mokubung, fashion designer and founder of the renowned South African label Mantsho. So far, we discussed the transition from passionate intern to iconic designer. We also got into one of her biggest milestones of her 20-year entrepreneurial journey being the first African black designer to collaborate with the Swedish fast fashion brand H&M. If you missed the first part of this conversation, I have included a link in the show notes For part two.
Palesa Mokubung:We focus on the challenges that face African designers in general, balisa's love for learning and why that has been an important character trait for her success. She also mentions some life lessons that come with being a business owner, as well as the next steps in her journey as an entrepreneur. So here is Balisa in part two of a conversation with Shades and Layers. One of the challenging things for a lot of fashion brands out of the African continent is distribution, and because there's a trend towards online shopping, that also becomes doubly challenging because of infrastructure. So how have you got around? I know you have an online shop too, so how have you got around all these challenges?
Kutloano Skosana:It's still a challenge. It's a huge challenge, I mean to have a distribution. It's actually a privilege to have a challenge to distribute. It's a privilege because it means that at least someone still wants your items. Right, you're still in the game. You're still in the game. You just have to figure out how to be in the game and then other other issues then start. Where do you make the items? You know quality, you know in south africa, our industry, you know our suffered.
Palesa Mokubung:Yeah, yeah, yeah it started suffering years ago.
Kutloano Skosana:So we're slowly trying to rebuild it remotely. You know designers on their own you are doing. You know you run your own small production line and you know you produce your items. But if you want to play on the global market, you've got to. You have to find a way to do that in. You can't do that internally, you know. So those challenges are really there. They're really there. Step of going to do a trade show now that is one of the things that I'm most not nervous, but it's one of the conversations I'm looking forward to having with other designers, because it's African designers from all over.
Kutloano Skosana:You know the continent from our base. You know globally and some here, and I'm looking forward to having conversations with my colleagues you know fellow designers to say how do you tackle uh, you know such such issues. Obviously, I've never had a large order that I needed to produce myself and when I did, which was with h&m, I had great support. So, unless you have a backer to to produce, to even just get the orders to be in a position where you are exposed to different buyers is you know? You know it needs support, you need someone to back you. So I'm looking forward to having those conversations. It's an ongoing struggle, I think, for most of us who've been in the industry for a really long time and who want to stay there and play on that scale. So I don't have answers.
Kutloano Skosana:I don't have answers at this point. I'm really looking forward to picking people's brains. I'm looking forward to picking people's brains and seeing what connections I can make. It's not just about getting buyers, it's also just finding out how to. Then, once you have buyers and you've got big or small what is then? What is that channel like on the global?
Palesa Mokubung:Because there's that also.
Kutloano Skosana:There's that knowledge. There's that knowledge and that business model that it's good and well that I'm going there. It's a good first step. I'm opening myself up to a whole new way of working. But it is exciting because, like I was saying to you, that when you're at a point where you don't know something, it's a fantastic place to be at, because then it means that you can open the door and start learning about it.
Kutloano Skosana:You can start learning about it. It is a fantastic place, so I love it when I'm not, when I don't know everything.
Palesa Mokubung:I prefer it actually. You've always expressed that enthusiasm. I think I told you when I saw you in Johannesburg that you know, you had told me about you had just done a song with Zubz and you were telling me that you know, you know singing is something that I can do, but you know sewing and design. It's something that I've actually had to learn and I love it.
Kutloano Skosana:Thank you. Yeah, I love the layers that are in entrepreneurship because I've never known anything about it. Like I said, there's no blueprint. I've never had one. It's been trial and error. I've had great, great wins and many, many losses, but the fact that there are places, spaces, markets is what keeps me going, because I'm built for a challenge.
Palesa Mokubung:I'm a creative period.
Kutloano Skosana:I'm a creative, but you know, my mom is an intellectual and my father is a creative and my brother is a bona fide creative.
Palesa Mokubung:And I'm a bit of both.
Kutloano Skosana:So I'm a bit of both, which I'm so grateful for. But it's something that you have to lean into and really, really harness and enjoy the challenge of it. So I take that with me and I bring it to the business. I enjoy the business part of my business as much as I enjoy the creative, and that is kind of rare, that is quite rare actually.
Kutloano Skosana:Because it's quite rare. It's quite rare, but I enjoy both and sometimes it's a good thing, I think, and other times maybe not, because with design you can be both of them. You have to be calculative, and sometimes you can be too calculative with design because you're in a business mode, or you can be too playful and creative with business because you are in a creative mode. So you've got to find a really nice balance, or else you might find yourself doing things because they just tickle you and it's that's not a good enough reason. But uh, I'm glad that I've got a very strong footing, you know, in my, in my business, and that allowed me to go at my own pace.
Kutloano Skosana:That's another important thing, yeah, and it allows me to go at my own pace and for me to create a bubble.
Kutloano Skosana:That cannot be easily influenced to create a world and a business. That where I'm not easily kind of swayed. There's a vision. It's a very fluid vision. You know this is what I would like, but if something else comes in that I have had hopes for and dreams, I can adjust myself. So I've got a vision, but it's fluid and my feet are firm on the ground and I think that's the formula I've been using. It's creative, like I said, but it kind of it works for me, but I need to make sure that it works for the business as well.
Palesa Mokubung:So how do you describe yourself as a leader?
Kutloano Skosana:I'm very strict, but I'm also quite maternal about what I do, so I'm very caring, I'm very caring and I'm very. It's like a family, it's like I'm family orientated, you know. And by family I mean not just us. I treat my business like that, but not just us. It extends to our clients. You know the clients are part of the family. Hence we have the Jita dress, because we named it after our client, one of our biggest clients. The Jita dress, it's like it is very warm and fuzzy.
Kutloano Skosana:That's the kind of Vida I am, but I'm very strict. I'm very strict.
Palesa Mokubung:You have expectations.
Kutloano Skosana:I do have expectations, I have high expectations, but I can also. But immediately after that I can relax and we can all go back to like it's not tense.
Palesa Mokubung:It's not tense.
Kutloano Skosana:I'm a lot of fun because what we do is very serious. I know it doesn't look like it. I know you guys don't think so hey.
Palesa Mokubung:I do, but yeah, okay, thank you. Hey, someone do, but yeah okay, very brilliant.
Kutloano Skosana:Thank you, hey. Someone at least takes us seriously. But what we do, it's quite demanding. So I do not. I'm not high strung. I'm not a high strung leader. I'm the one who comes everybody down and makes sure that there's still people can be themselves in order to be productive.
Palesa Mokubung:That's good to hear, and where did you learn that? Who have been some of your mentors?
Kutloano Skosana:That's a good question. I think it's my mom. Okay, tell me more I think I got that from my mom, my mother, you know, mother of energy, you know about that mother who was always bringing kids to school.
Kutloano Skosana:She was an educator for many, many years and my mother is a qualified psychologist who's never practiced, she's been an educator. So I was raised by her and you know she was a single mom for most of our lives. So she, she very much raised us to be to be able to, to express ourselves, to learn how to express ourselves in order to get what we want in the world. So I think that and she's very subtle about her ways, very elegant. So the creativity in my work is my dad and the class and elegance and style is my mom. The creativity is my dad and I think just the leadership is my mom. So I love that question. I love that question.
Palesa Mokubung:And your vision going forward. I know you're going to a trade show and there's, you know aspirations, but I mean what you know. How do you see Mantsho evolving, Like, how would you like to direct it?
Kutloano Skosana:I think you know what I want us to talk about the now, because who am I? I don't know where. I cannot tell you. I cannot tell you for sure.
Kutloano Skosana:By God's grace, right. By God's grace, right? Yeah, I mean, I think that's a God question and that is something that you ask for. You know, you ask for life. Ask God to give him to, to, to make sure. I've asked if I could see my kids turn 40. Hey, and my kids are only five years old. My child is one, five, it's like, the other one is eight months.
Palesa Mokubung:So you better know You've been living a long, long life.
Kutloano Skosana:Yes, oh my God, I better start eating well and going to the gym, because I've asked for a long life. But there are just certain things that you just ask for. And then there are things that you but there are just certain things that you just ask for. And then there are things that you work towards. Right, so, working towards, I think it's just new markets. Gwano, that's what I want to say, because I've been doing this for so long. My market here is loyal and I'm grateful for that, but the brand that you see now is like 10 years feet firm on the, you know on the ground. Then I think tennis is a good benchmark for me to start really exploring new markets. That's the only way to sum it up. Um, as to when, how I'm going with it as as it comes, you know, but I'm like I I like to stay ready, right in my business. I like to stay ready. I really I like to stay ready, right In my business. I like to stay ready, I really like to stay ready.
Kutloano Skosana:Yeah, perfect so we do things because we are always getting ready for something great. We don't know what it is but, we're always getting ready for something great.
Palesa Mokubung:Yeah, so you know, 20 years is quite an achievement and you know if someone had to ask you to document it and put it in a book. What would you call that book and why what?
Kutloano Skosana:Don't ask me that question?
Palesa Mokubung:I don't know.
Kutloano Skosana:Oh my God, I've never been asked that question.
Palesa Mokubung:What are?
Kutloano Skosana:your thoughts. I've never thought about it, but I call it. This doesn't have to stick right, it doesn't have to stick, it changed my mind right, of course, and it would have to be about the business, right?
Palesa Mokubung:I mean, you're the heartbeat of the business too, so and true, true, true, true, true, true.
Kutloano Skosana:Oh, I don't, I'm on. Why are you doing this Now, if I don't answer you? Even if I answer you, I'm going to think about it. You don't have to answer me.
Palesa Mokubung:The point is, this is a huge milestone. It needs to be marked somehow. It's a celebration and you know, just getting you to, we don't. We very often don't reflect on our journeys as just as people in general.
Kutloano Skosana:It's like oh yeah, that happens. That's amazing. So you know, this is a way to do it. You know what I would call it. I would call it being comfortable with success.
Palesa Mokubung:Oh, say more why.
Kutloano Skosana:No, because, yay, because we can be so uncomfortable with just acknowledging that you've worked hard and that it's paid off. Right, I hear you being comfortable. It's scary Like my heart is beating so fast, like I can feel my body, I can feel my insides, because I'm like, ooh, am I Now, you question, am I successful? Yeah, to a large degree. Yeah, is it. Am I at the top of the hill? No, but this is successful to me. This is my level of success, one of the levels there's many levels.
Palesa Mokubung:I'm just at one of them. So another controversial question for you, because I do this to everyone who comes on the podcast.
Kutloano Skosana:So let's take that book being Comfortable with.
Palesa Mokubung:Success. We turn it into a movie. Who do you choose to be the lead actress? Oh my God.
Kutloano Skosana:Oh my God, From Hollywood Anyway.
Palesa Mokubung:Anyway. Are they going to be from Hollywood anyway anyway.
Kutloano Skosana:Anyway, is it like the stars of our generation? Anyway, now can I tell you who I love right now? Right, I love me some good.
Palesa Mokubung:Kiki Palmer oh yeah, she's fun. Oh, I love she is so much fun, she's got energy and drive.
Kutloano Skosana:And she's got energy and she's got drive and you know she can pull herself out of any gutter. That's the person who should pay me. Who should play me? Anybody who can pull themselves out of a sticky situation is the person who should pay me. Okay.
Palesa Mokubung:What else? Okay? So let's say you're hosting a dinner and you could choose one famous black woman to invite, living or dead. Who would it be?
Kutloano Skosana:Let me think, famous, and I'm having just one person, just one person. I love her Mind, spirit, I love her, I love her and I think she's such an incredible voice for our generation and she's like a mirror, you know, like a mirror, and it's an exceptional way to look at yourself, you know, if you, if she's like a mirror and it's a, it's an exceptional way to look at yourself, you know.
Kutloano Skosana:Yeah, yeah, she is so incredible, and the amount of talent, but the wisdom as well. Do you know, when someone is in her, in her place in the world and doing the work that she's meant to be doing, that's the girl. I love her. Thank you for asking me that. I love that. Thank you for asking me that.
Palesa Mokubung:Yeah, yeah, so we are wrapping it up now. If people want to reach you, give you money. Where can they find you?
Kutloano Skosana:Oh my God, give me money. All the email addresses you've been sending us, they must find us there. They can also DM me. Imagine, find us there. They can also DM me work. Imagine a whole global collaboration happened over a DM and a WhatsApp. Imagine.
Palesa Mokubung:Those are real platforms.
Kutloano Skosana:They work.
Palesa Mokubung:Don't shun them. Yes, okay.
Kutloano Skosana:They work. Yeah, good old Instagram, I think, all social platforms, email and just study the work, study us and feel our heartbeat before you come, because if you don't, we will know.
Palesa Mokubung:And that is all from me this time around. Thank you, Balisa, for telling your story with such a great sense of humor. If you liked this episode and you know someone else who might like it, please go ahead and share it. As always, thank you for listening and your ongoing support. I'm Kutloano Skosana Ricci, and until next time, please do take good care.
