Revolutionizing Hamstring Strengthening With Dr. Garrett Drumheller

If you are a runner, you know one of the weakest parts of a runner's body is the hamstrings. Meet Dr. Garret Drumheller, a physical therapist and the inventor of the Nordstick.  His creation, the Nordstick, emerged from a challenging stint at a Division I university, where ingenuity met necessity and led to an affordable, space-saving fitness innovation. With over 150,000 units sold, Garrett's journey from prototype to viral sensation encapsulates the essence of this episode: a testament to how dedication and smart design can transform the athletic world.

We tear into the meat of hamstring fortification, particularly through the lens of Nordic curls, and why they're paramount for athletes, especially those navigating the rigors of cleat sports. Garrett offers a deep dive into the biomechanics of injury prevention, and how his Nordstick stands up to the rigors of intense training. Join us for an invigorating discussion that promises to elevate your understanding of fitness and the tools we use to achieve peak performance.

Interested in ordering the Nordstick? Check out the link to ORDER

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:10

Welcome to LAGO. My name is Lisa. Join me on the journey in having real raw and uncomfortable discussions about fitness, health and everything in between, because, let's be honest, this journey would suck if we don't get our shit together. All right, garrett, welcome to the LAGO podcast. How are you?

Speaker 2: 0:40

Yeah, thanks so much for having me. I'm doing really well. It's a nice early morning in Charleston, south Carolina, so I'm hyped to talk about running and Nordstick.

Speaker 1: 0:51

It's awesome. So before we talk, to talk about the product and what was the basis of it in the background, can you tell the listeners your background?

Speaker 2: 1:04

Yeah, so I've always been an athlete in a way. I ran track, played soccer in high school and then, just because I was constantly getting injured, I was always in a PT clinic. So I actually decided to go to school for physical therapy. That was seven years and a really long journey, but I always wanted to, knew I wanted to give back to the athlete that I once was helping youth athletes and other athletes who are just trying to be more active like and achieve more. And yeah, that led me to my career.

Speaker 2: 1:40

The Nordstick side of things was kind of a pleasant surprise. When I was working at a Division one university in Pennsylvania with the football, basketball and track and cross country teams, we were low budget. Our budget might have been like for a whole season what some schools we were playing had for one game, so we had to be really resourceful. We had a lot of hamstring injuries and other injuries, but we couldn't afford the Nordic bench or like some of the equipment that these other places had. So I was holding down people's feet, I was making sure that they were doing this awesome exercise for preventing hamstring injuries and eventually I got tired of it like holding people's feet. So I was like I can make something like this. So it led me to find a rolling pin and a ratchet strap and put some padding on it and that was like the first design in like 2019, 2020. It's lit under a door and like we could use it in our weight room. Then I made a few others just to give to like a few athletes who wanted to do it in their dorm room.

Speaker 2: 2:48

And then COVID hit and I was like all the athletes went home. I didn't have a job as a PT anymore, so I was like let's get, let's see if we can make this a thing. So I took my life savings out, put it in 300 prototypes and I was like, if nobody buys this, like I'll just be able to help the athletes that I work with in a PT clinic. And it was amazing. In the first 30 days I remember like nonstop texting my friends another person bought one, another person bought one, so we sold 300 in a blink.

Speaker 2: 3:24

And then it's just kind of snowballed into this thing where we've now sold over 150,000 units and helped a tremendous amount of people strengthen their hamstrings at home and we've been able to grow our product line as well with, like the mission of making exercise more affordable. I don't want anybody to ever tell me that like they can't afford being able to have like elite results and there's just like the fitness community like a lot of the equipment is very expensive, takes up a lot of space and, being a PT, it was just the thing I heard over and over again. So we've probably charged too little for our products, but I'm on a mission to help as many people as I can. That like physical therapy side of me just doesn't want to stop and that's kind of where we are today Just growing out our product line and resources to help as many people as we can.

Speaker 1: 4:20

Garrett oh my God. Okay, first of all, let's take a step back here. Okay, because people are listening. And then they're like, okay, wait, what, who, what exercises this? So when you were doing the, you were working as a physical therapist for a university and what was the exercise like? What was the movement that gave you the idea?

Speaker 2: 4:41

Yeah, so a Nordic curl is been a long for for a long time. Nordic curls actually were seen in the literature in the 1800s. Their original use was to help people in the nor Norway, sweden region, nordic region, cure the common cold, which is pretty crazy. But we do know that, like, exercise has health benefits, but I don't think Nordic curls cure the cold, so so, yeah, it's been around for a while. It's a.

Speaker 2: 5:14

I was a soccer player and the FIFA 11 plus is the world's largest injury reduction program, so it's a staple of that program, and I was like, well, if they're making that one of the five exercises they are trying to get every kid to do, there must be something special there. And that led me down to the rabbit hole, diving into like what it was, why it's an official. And then in 2018, there was a BGSM, or British Journal of Sports Medicine, meta analysis that revealed that it can actually reduce injury risk by 51% and re injury rate by over 70%. There's been some like pushback on that, because it's really hard to know, like predictably, how many injuries were preventing. Yeah, it does a really good job of strengthening your hamstrings and it's powered by body weight, so you don't really need extensive machinery, weights or anything like that.

Speaker 2: 6:11

And my favorite part about this movement is it tells you exactly how strong you are in relation to your body weight, similar to like a push-up, pull-up or squat. So if you can do a pull-up, you know you're strong in relation to your body weight. A Nordic curl is the test for the backside of your legs, so if you can do a Nordic curl, that means you're strong in relation to your body weight. And so frequently, as a physical therapist, people come to me with knee pain and lower extremity injuries and they the one common thing I saw was they had weak hamstrings and no way to like train them, or they didn't know how to train them at home. So I was like, well, let's just pair these two together, come up with something super affordable and do an exercise that I believe is the best or one of the best ways to strengthen your hamstrings. And yeah, it's been. It's been amazing.

Speaker 1: 7:07

Okay, so this is, and I'm looking at the photo behind you. Okay, so it's. That's pretty much the workout, right? You're in the process of doing like a push-up, right? And your legs are, because you were saying that you're holding the athlete's leg or foot right. So it's almost as if can you just give us the movement just to play by, play on the movement so people can understand it.

Speaker 2: 7:33

Yeah. So what this image is is actually the person catching themselves as they hit the ground. So the Nordic simply slides under your door and you pull the strap and it'll securely hold your feet, just like I was doing when I was working with the athlete. I was like grabbing onto their feet and prying their feet down so that they didn't go anywhere. The more secure your feet are, the better you can do the movement. And basically, as you lower to the ground, gravity and your body weight are going to be pushing you to the ground.

Speaker 2: 8:02

The only thing that's preventing you from just slamming down on your face is your hamstrings and your a little bit of your back excensors and your glutes to keep your body straight. So as you slowly lower to the ground, your hamstrings are resisting that body weight and gravity. So they're being tested in an eccentric fashion, which means they're being strengthened as the muscle is getting longer. And just what we know from like true eccentric overload, you can get a lot more muscle activation. So you can get up to 30 to 40% more muscle activity during an eccentric overload movement, like a Nordic curl, and that's like the secret behind it, like you can get results faster, and it's all in relation to your body weight. So you like, when you jump, run or cut, you're moving your body weight, so it's great to know how strong you are and make it like a relative to that.

Speaker 1: 9:01

That is so cool. So the whole idea was it's holding down your feet so that you can do it at home and you don't have to have someone hold your feet, because that's what what it was that you're doing.

Speaker 2: 9:13

And that was.

Speaker 1: 9:14

I mean something so simple that and there isn't another product like that. And now it's blowing up Garrett. That is so cool.

Speaker 2: 9:25

Yeah, the crazy thing is, like Nordic curls always were a thing, the sports communities were always doing it Hamstring strains are the most common injury in sport when it comes to like muscle strains. Unfortunately, like like pro sports and college sports knew this. They had Nordic benches in their facilities, but, like I have an apartment, I can't well, my fiance won't allow me to occupy half my room with the Nordic bench Like it's. It's a nice coffee table, potentially for like a bachelor, but like my fiance doesn't want that as our coffee table, so I needed to create something that didn't take up much space and serve the same function. So, yeah, the beauty is in the simplicity.

Speaker 2: 10:12

And, yeah, now as I get into running more and doing things like, I don't want to spend my time necessarily always driving to a gym, working out at a gym and then coming home no-transcript. I want to be able to train at my apartment and then go out and do the thing I love, which right now is running as I get into training for the Charleston Bridge Run, which is a really cool community event in Charleston that we do every year. That's 6.4 miles, so nothing super crazy, but you go over the Ravenel Bridge and they shut everything down and it's a really, really cool experience that I am really looking forward to this year.

Speaker 1: 10:55

So let me ask you this A lot of my listeners are beginner runners. They're new to running, they want to run, they're scared to run, you being a physical therapist and then you having this product. If any of the listeners want to try this product, at what stage of their training would you suggest for them to use it?

Speaker 2: 11:21

If you can kneel, you can Nordic curl. There's definitely ways to scale and I, just, like them, wasn't running very much until January. This past year was super busy. We experienced a lot of growth at Nordic and, unfortunately, like when I tried to prioritize helping people get their products and providing resources for them, I didn't practice what I preach and I didn't train. So in January I was pretty much starting from zero. I am currently only running. Three miles is my longest run that I ran last week.

Speaker 2: 12:02

So I feel that in a beginner state, like we started off one mile, we even did like walk runs, like yeah, being a physical therapist, I just didn't want to get gung-ho and go overboard and then injure myself. So how I incorporate it into my training is once or twice a week I will do a do a Nordic curl variation. If I'm not running that day, I'll attack it with a little bit more intensity, but if I am running that day I'll maybe do a easier version that I'll scale back, for example, isometrics or with the yoga ball. On our website and on our YouTube library we have so many scaling options that allows anybody of any skill level to do Nordic curls and then I actually just put the program that I'm doing to get to my 5k, which I'm going to be running next weekend, just as like a test run so that I know I'm ready in April. I put that on our website and how exactly like I just documented my training for the past eight weeks so that's on our website as like a cool little like blog and reflection piece.

Speaker 2: 13:18

That like I'm 29. I want to believe I'm athletic, but I still started with one mile runs at the beginning and, yeah, our goal is to get our mileage up to like 15, 20 miles a week in end of March so that I feel comfortable running the 10k for the bridge run. So, yeah, baby steps too, like I'm starting. I'm not an experienced runner in any way. I have a lot of runner friends who run marathons and half marathons and I call them crazy because I think that's a lot of work. But maybe I'll get there someday and I've really, really enjoyed my training and bonding with my dog and my fiance during my runs.

Speaker 1: 14:08

Oh, that's cool. See, he's a physical therapist and even he is taking baby steps in this running journey. So, I know that you kind of like touched upon this and you know, I know this. You know this maybe the listeners don't know this the importance of strengthening the hamstrings, especially as a runner. Can you just talk a little bit more about why runners may not have the strongest hamstrings and why it's so important to strengthen that area?

Speaker 2: 14:40

Yeah, so pretty much across the board, runners and all individuals who train like. If you train in a commercial gym, it's a little easier to train them. You can do hamstring curls, you can do deadlifts, you can do various movements to kind of isolate your hamstrings. But if you're like me and you train at home, it's relatively tricky. Like I, you can do squats and lunges and all these movements at home, but not they don't really target the hamstrings at all. Nordic curls target your hamstrings four times more than a squat and two times more than a deadlift. So when you think you're doing these things to train your hamstrings, you're not actually doing them just by exercising and I think that's the reason why, like a lot of people I found were weak in their hamstrings. They just didn't know how.

Speaker 2: 15:32

And, like I said before, hamstring strains are the most common injury in sport.

Speaker 2: 15:38

If you play a cleat sport like track, football, soccer, the incident rate is up to like 24% or in some studies I think it's more, around 15%, but it's really high.

Speaker 2: 15:52

It's one of the things that most athletes will experience at some point in their career, just because when you run, if you're using a cleat or a sneaker, your hamstring is what flexes your knee and extends your hip, so it's propelling your leg backwards as you run. So, depending on like your stride length and your cadence, it can really be a big part of what helps you run faster and propels you forward. And Nordic curls just allow you to do it with body weight at home and strengthen these muscles. So, yeah, it's really important for runners and that's kind of something that I've realized when I'm on my runs with my fiance is like the stronger I get my hamstrings and the more I'm doing these Nordic curls, the easier it is to run and it's feeling better. I always had like the cardio, but I just had to like condition my body for being able to get those miles in, because it's a lot going from like nothing to three miles and yeah, again, I'm young and healthy. So, like it should, you should slowly progress up to where you're at.

Speaker 1: 17:11

So you, just, you just said four times. So using the, the, a nerdy doing a Nordic curl is four times, strengthens it four times more than in a squat.

Speaker 2: 17:27

Yeah, so when you're talking about your hamstrings, there's four times more muscle activity In a Nordic curl than a squat. A squat is primarily for, like, your quads and the stuff on the front side of your leg, your glutes, a little bit as you extend your hip, depending on your squat depth. But yeah, nordic curls have four times more muscle activity and deadlifts which everybody. When I asked them, how do you strengthen their hamstrings? They're usually like a deadlift. But Nordic curls are two times more effective in hamstring muscle activity than a deadlift. And yeah, it just, it just shows you like when you really break it down and isolate the hamstring in a fashion with your body weight, you get really good results.

Speaker 2: 18:15

And Our bodies I tell this to all my patients like our bodies are amazing at completing tasks and compensating. So if something's weak, they're gonna figure out another way around it. So if your hamstrings are weak, you're gonna lift more. Potentially with your low back or your your glutes are like somebody else is gonna pick up the slack. So it's easy to Stay weak Even though you think you're training and getting better. So I always like to sprinkle in isolated work in my training to make sure that each muscle is getting the appropriate attention. And then, yeah, always cleaning on the compound lifts as well.

Speaker 1: 18:57

Wow, that's. You know. I don't think a lot of runners know that they do the deadlifts and they do the squats, and you're absolutely right, and you know, I did not even know that. So that's something.

Speaker 2: 19:08

I learned new today.

Speaker 1: 19:10

Let me ask you this, so you, going on to your website, there are, by the way, do you have it with you right now?

Speaker 2: 19:18

Yes, I do. I have like 20 of them all over my apartment. I have every variation. So we've had a Over 10 different variations of the Nord stick. We're constantly trying to make it better, make it stronger, make it more user friendly. Even though it's like so simple so you would think like I'd be able to get it right the first time.

Speaker 2: 19:47

So here it is. It's just a t-shaped strap. This is the door anchor. This is actually where all of my attention is. Everything else above it hasn't really changed much, because everybody always asks me like will this damage your door? How strong is it? I literally I worked with bald performance, which is the world leader in like data collection, and they force plates.

Speaker 2: 20:14

They have a Nord board. And I asked them, like what's the most force anybody's ever produced doing a Nordic curl? And Because they have a Nord board that tracks that. And they said we had an NFL athlete on the chiefs produce Like 400 pounds or 480 pounds. And I was like okay. So I talked with my partner and we're like we're gonna make it 800 pounds, like double what the human is able to produce.

Speaker 2: 20:42

So now it has like a steel core, which makes it really strong, and then a rubber outer side so it won't mark up or damage any doors. It's got a really nice adjuster buckle, similar to like what a suspension strap has, so it's super secure, easy to get in and out of. And then just two foam rollers. We use really premium foam because that's the part that's gonna like make contact with you. It's gonna like dig into your legs if it's not soft, and Just because it's so soft it allows you to like push a little bit further and get a little bit more out of the movement. But yeah, it's been, it's been pretty cool. I never thought I would make something that People would try to knock off and if you go on Amazon, we have like 30 different knockoffs from like people trying to like copy us and they're very different. Like the quality is not there and.

Speaker 2: 21:41

People often will buy them because they're cheaper and then they come to me and say it didn't work. Can you give me a discount? And I always do. But we put a lot of time and thought into our design. Everything's like very intentional and there's a reason why there's are like very cheap Because they're just not built to the same standard. But we keep everything under 50 bucks on our store. I never want to like Try to get our price things too high where people can't afford them. So everything's between 20 and 50 bucks to make kind of fitness affordable and accessible to all. And we're just kind of expanding our line Based on the needs that people have and that I've seen in my physical therapy world. And yeah, anytime anybody's ever said like, oh, it's too expensive to get that, I my light bulb goes in my head like how can I make it more affordable and do the same thing, if not better than what the current one does, so that then people don't have to like Say no to doing things that are gonna benefit them for life?

Speaker 1: 22:53

Yeah, so you, you sent me one. I purposely told Garrett that. Well, I told him I didn't open it because I wanted to ask the questions as a person who doesn't know what he's talking about. Right, and?

Speaker 2: 23:05

yeah.

Speaker 1: 23:06

I want people to listen and Understand the product. Obviously, I'm gonna open it up and I can't wait. I cannot wait to use your product, garrett. With that being said, where can we buy the product?

Speaker 2: 23:21

Yeah, so you can get it on Amazon or on the Nord stick calm. I recommend getting it on the Nord stick calm just because we're able to provide you a lot more value In the sense that we can. We can give you free programs to like get you started going from zero to wherever you want to be. Everybody who buys on our website gets a 10 week Nordic curl program that kind of guides them from their starting point to being able to do a Nordic curl. You also get access to like All 10 free programs that we offer our members, just so that they can like see how to incorporate it in their training. All those programs like I've done are given to people, so I figured why not like put them down on paper and make them accessible to everybody? But some people just like purchasing on Amazon, so you can get it there as well. Just be weary of the copycats, because they just don't work as well.

Speaker 1: 24:17

Okay, all right Good.

Speaker 2: 24:18

And we'll.

Speaker 1: 24:19

We'll put the link in the show notes on how to purchase. So, gary, what are upcoming? What are some upcoming Projects or products? I mean, are you already like thinking what? What else can I do with this?

Speaker 2: 24:31

Yeah, so we do have. We just released a new product called the Omni Band. That's a really exciting product because it evolved, just like all of our products, from an initial idea called the Nord spotter. I believe that banded hamstring curls and Our great way to warm up for Nordic curls but then also being able to use that band to slide over a door, put on your shoulders and then help scale back the Nordic curl. The cool thing about like, when you do a banded Scaling option for Nordic curl, it matches the Resistance curve of the Nordic curl perfectly. And what I mean by that is, as the Nordic curl gets harder, the Assistance kicks in more and more and more. So if you've ever pulled on a resistance band, the more you pull, the harder it gets. So as you lower down and the movement's getting harder that it, the resistance band is kicking in, making it a little bit easier for you so that you can keep good form throughout the full range of motion and then gradually like decrease the assistance through our ladder design that has 50 levels so you can like walk to all the way up to being able to do it without any assistance at all. So that's like something I'm really excited about.

Speaker 2: 25:50

We have three to four other products that I've. I have in the pipeline some things I just kind of make for myself and and my personal training, and then people really want it. So we added into, like the product line. But our whole mission is creating affordable solutions for people who want to work out at home and people who like Want to get out of pain or stay active forever. Like that that's the thing that really lights me up. I see so often as a physical therapist, so many people like stop doing the things they love because of fear of injury. Or just they say that the thing they say is like, oh, I'm getting too old for that. Like I have friends in their 20s that tell me they're too old to like till I pick up sports and stuff because they're scared of like how they'll feel the next few days. And I, I, I tell all my friends is this is all over our website. Like the quote a boat is safe at harbor, but that's not what boats are designed for. Like yeah, we're safe by not doing things, but Life is so much better when we take chances and stay active.

Speaker 2: 26:59

I Picked up running this year. Last year I did a Spartan race. The year before I did the craziest like Spartan race ever. It was in Pennsylvania and it was like on a ski slope and I nearly died, but it was like it was like 105 degrees and like I didn't bring any electrolyte tablets, I was not a runner or like it was four hours long and, yeah, my fiance was like pretty much dragging me over the finish line just to make sure I completed it. But I'm always trying to like push myself, stay active, and Whenever a friend says, hey, you want to play pick up volleyball, play pick up basketball, I want to be ready and I want that same experience for everybody. So we're lowering the barrier to education and we're lowering the barrier to Getting the fitness equipment that they need so that they can stay active forever.

Speaker 1: 27:50

Garrett, I am so impressed with all of this. I mean, you took something so simple and it was a need. You saw the need for it. You created this product and it's helping people. People can do it from home. I love the fact that you are considering the consumer like where they're at and making sure that you're meeting their needs and You're like on the journey with us. That's what makes you so relatable and I'm so excited that you said yes to be part of this interview. I want people to hear you. I want people to get excited about your product. I want people to use your product and I am super excited of what's to come because I get a feeling that you are going to explode.

Speaker 2: 28:32

And I'm gonna say he was here, guys here first, I hope that's very kind of you and yeah, we do have some exciting things in the, the pipeline, specifically in the runner running community, outside of just our products. I'll give a little plug to this. I'm doing people know this, I Am we're starting. My fiancee and I are starting a company called the runners dog. I Run with my dog every day. He is the reason why I like work so hard with Nord stick Like I want to make sure I give him the best life possible and I love walking with him and running with him. And I've bought over 90 dog leashes that are like designed for runners and Stuff what.

Speaker 2: 29:22

While I was training and like none of them worked. They were all uncomfortable. They either dug into my hips or like they spun me around like a top when he changed directions. So we created, me and her, a little passion project. We're probably only gonna like sell the same thing like 300 like the Nord stick journey, but we're making the world's best running leash for dogs so that you can now be active and bring your best friend with you. So that's gonna be like a little cool thing that's coming in the future.

Speaker 2: 29:54

My, my fiancee Is an occupational therapist and she's kind of taking the lead on this project. She's made the logo. We've sat down so many nights feeling every single leash, getting the resistance right, getting the waist belt right Probably 15 prototypes in and over 90 Dog leashes purchased. So we really do think we have something special there and I'll be running the bridge run with the final one that I'll get in two weeks and that'll be just something cool to give back to, like the running community, because it's become something really special to me in the past few years just with every rate. Whatever race I run there, everybody's always so welcoming and like everybody just wants everybody to win, which is like the coolest thing ever. And yeah, I think I'm gonna be a part of it for a while now. So that's kind of my next way of giving back to somebody or a community that's giving me so much.

Speaker 1: 30:56

Oh, my God. Okay, let me know when that happens, because I would like to run with my dog and I hear you about the turning around and almost killing myself as I'm running with him. That is so cool. Okay, I'm so excited for you. Where can we find you Like? Just let us know what you know, your links and you know your website.

Speaker 2: 31:19

Yeah, so you can purchase anything that we talked about today at the Nordstickcom or Nordstickcom.

Speaker 2: 31:27

And then our social media that we're most active on is Instagram, so you can always reach out and get ahold of me at the Nordstick.

Speaker 2: 31:36

We also have a YouTube page that has a ton of resources related to how to do exercises more long form content explaining exactly how to like scale movements, making sure you're super comfortable with all of our products, and I always give you options, too, that are no equipment needed. So even if you think that the 30 to $40 price point is too much for you right now, I'm going to show you how to do it without equipment, too. Equipment just makes it a little bit easier and decreases the friction for you to like get better results. So you can check that out on our YouTube page that's constantly growing. And then if you have any personal questions or personal recommendations or things you want to see from us, you can reach me at Garrett at the Nordstickcom. That's my personal email and it doesn't matter how big we get. I'm always going to be the one responding to that, so you can always reach me there and I will do my best to get back to you in 24 hours, even on weekends.

Speaker 1: 32:39

Wow, okay, garrett, this is just amazing and you know. I want to say one last thing, and I'm not just saying this because as a runner, you know injuries are part of our journey. And you said the value. And when you think about the value, you know the product, the value is not hurting yourself because I mean that is invaluable. Okay, like I just got done with a whole healing journey I haven't ran since November and it mentally killed me almost and having to heal and then think about all the physical therapy appointments, the doctor appointments, all of that supersedes the amount of money that it costs to purchase this product. So the value is invalid. I mean, it's just priceless. I'm going to say so I you know, when you say about, you know, looking at trying to meet the needs of the consumer, yet also think about you know, those doctor appointments, especially if you don't have insurance, like my God, and that's the reality nowadays. And not running is for runner, it is is hurtful.

Speaker 2: 33:53

Yeah, runners, I love them, but they are the hardest people to work with in physical therapy because they don't stop running. I had somebody who had metal plates in their ankle and I said this weekend I just want you to run one or two miles, see how it feels. We were 16 weeks into the journey and they come to me hobbling, like on Monday, in so much pain. And I was like, oh no, did I tell him the wrong thing? And he's an ultra marathoner? So he's like, oh, two miles felt good, so I just went for 20. And I was like, oh, I like my jaw dropped. And I was like, oh, my gosh, no wonder you're hobbling, like I wouldn't walk for a month if I ran 20 miles after doing nothing.

Speaker 2: 34:42

So, yeah, I definitely see that and that identity piece is big, like I love the community that I'm now a part of. And, yeah, losing that for a short period of time with an injury is hard and I see all the time as a PT. So we're just trying to prevent that so you can stay doing the things you love.

Speaker 1: 35:03

Yeah, I said that. I said the harder. I say that to my new runners. I said the hardest thing that you are going to go through as a runner is not running to heal. That's the hardest thing to do. Garrett, again, thank you so much. I'm going to put all the links on our show notes as well as on my Instagram. Your library on your YouTube is fantabulous. It's so much information, there's so many variations that you can use this product. So please check Garrett out, please follow him, go on his YouTube, go on his links. I'm just excited to see what's to come and thank you so much for being a part of this.

Speaker 2: 35:45

Yeah, thank you so much for having me, and let me know if anybody ever needs anything. I'm always here.

Speaker 1: 35:52

Thank you and thanks for everyone to listening to this special episode. Until next time, bye.