#25: How To Plan And Write A Fantasy Series And Distribute Your Books Like A Pro - Ryan Null

Want to write a fantasy series, but not sure where to start? In this episode of the hugely engaging, 'What! The Heys' podcast, Indiana native Ryan Null breaks down how he plans and writes his fantasy series (think characters, plot lines, world building and maps) despite his hectic family life. 

What's more, he also shares some of his tips for new writers, including how he distributes his novels across the USA and the UK, as well as his experiences giving talks at various book shops around the world. 

He is also not shy about giving his thoughts on AI and how it's rise threatens the integrity of the writing and publishing process. 

Perfect for writers and creators everywhere.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Hello, welcome to another episode of What the Haze. I am your host, Hayes Wolfenden, author of the Jack Strong series of books. I'm here today with Ryan Null, author of The Flare Chronicles, a fantasy series. So welcome, Ryan. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 0:19

I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 0:20

I'm really glad to be on the show. Yeah, loving it. Really glad to have you as well, to be honest. So, yeah, Ryan, can you tell everybody a little bit about yourself and then maybe something about your books, please?

SPEAKER_00 0:30

Hello, everyone. I'm the author of The Flare Chronicles. I have book three into the advent releasing uh July 1st, and then my Spicy Romance C series will launch as well, which the cover and title, well, the title reveal and blurb should be next month, and then June 1st should the cover reveal will take place. I am an international two-time award-winning author, so I do have readers across the globe. I've got several bookshops across the globe carrying my stuff. There's several ratings of my series of Flair Chronicles. It's been well received and well liked. And the traveling season just started, so all the festivals and that. It's really been a humbly exciting process and journey. So I'm happy to be here.

SPEAKER_01 1:14

Yeah, it sounds fantastic. Yeah, tell me, I want to go into later about like the book fairs and stuff. I think it sounds so interesting. But yeah, just tell me a little bit about like the threat of the flare chronicles, like what's it about? What made you want to write the series of books?

SPEAKER_00 1:28

So it's actually like a DD mix with Lord of the Rings. I tell everyone, because there is a quest, but most of it is DD style because I create my own maps. Uh the that map actually took 80 hours, and then it was a newsletter exclusive, and then my Spicy Romancy series, that map took 120 hours, has its own map, different map system, magic. Same with the Flare Chronicles. I've got my own race of dragons, my own like race of L's, my own race of people, uh, and even my own like human language, the English, I guess you'd say I create my own language like that. But it's more or less that. I will say it's if you like like Dragonlance, you're gone. That's something right up your alley. And it started, I try to give credit to teachers. So my eighth grade teacher was the one that really believed in me and thought, you know, I could write. And in eighth grade, we had to write something unique and original. And so I wrote the first prequel, and she loved it so much that she pulled me aside and said I should write. And I thought, no, that's not cool in eighth grade. Like I want to hang out with my friends, and you know. But she kept pursuing and persistent about it. So I wrote a second prequel, and she loved that one. She said I had the talent skills, so then all through high school, um I wrote uh the Flare Chronicles into the Blaze, and then uh I got married and had kids, and life kind of took its train after high school, so it took a little bit to come out.

SPEAKER_01 3:00

Yeah, I can imagine. Can imagine. You mentioned like it took 80 hours for the maps for the Flare Chronicles, and I think you said it was a hundred hours for the romanticism series. How do you go about creating your maps? I'm really when it comes to maps, bleating novice, I would just get a pen and just go blah. That's what that's the rice trick, you know.

SPEAKER_00 3:22

The rice trick, throw the rice down and just see where they land, because a lot of people do that too. Okay. I so I I love making maps ever since reading Dragonlance, and they had this massive map. There's over 300 books in that series and over 60 authors, you know. I thought, well, why why can't I do this? Now I use hex software uh because my drawing, you know, I'd be like you, my drawing kind of stinks. But I use the hex software and I can I have it installed on my computer, so we didn't have high-speed internet till last year, sometime. I mean, we just live in the country, you know, there just isn't nothing available for people that have got chickens and dogs and the sticks here. That was a big part of it too, is I had to have something that I could put on my desktop that I could do offline in any time of the day. And the software I use is Nortanas. It's very kind of basic, but I got creative in the lines and how I wanted to do like the Highlands and Plains and that kind of thing in different countries and color coding them. So that was kind of the software in that. But when I create the map, I always try to think of like stories. So my goal is to write 300 books in that world and then 300 books in the romance. So I actually gotta create a different another map for that series because there's three different ages, and that map only covers two ages. I just haven't had the time. But every piece, you know, has the story or a legend or a myth, and that's why I try when I create the maps, because I'm thinking, well, what can I, you know, write a story about, or what can I intertwine with something else, or you know, what can I do with this and that? And then it becomes really immersive because you got all these castles and all these cities, you've got all these plains, you know, farm side, and the lands look different, or they've got coves of dragons and you know, all kinds of cool stuff.

SPEAKER_01 5:25

Yeah, it sounds interesting. I yeah, I can't believe that you said about you know writing 300 books in your series and in one series and 300 books in another. But yeah, yeah, good luck, good luck. To me, I'm listening, I'm like, well, it's quite daunting. But yeah, good for you, man. Keep on with it. I I've I've been reading your book, uh the first book in the Flare Chronicles this week, and yeah, I do agree. I think the world really comes through very strongly, very very magical, I'd say, as well. And I certainly like some of the races. Like there was one race, I think it was like the Bear Dragons. If I can't remember the actual name, but yeah, yeah, it seemed really, really interesting. Yeah, I tell you put a lot of thought into it. Yeah, you mentioned D D. Yeah, now you mention it. Yeah, that that does come through quite strongly, actually. Now you mention it, yeah. Just want to go back a bit. You mentioned about, you know, you go on you know book tours, you go to bookshops, you've got books in bookshops. What's that like? And how do you like how do you organize these things?

SPEAKER_00 6:26

So I've got a master excel sheet for just about everything. Like, so my map example, I've got a master excel sheet with every continent that you see, every country has its own tab, every book has its own tab, every magic system has its own tab, everything. And I do the same. I've got like a big master customer list, and I try to organize it by every little detail because it really helps me keeping track. You know, it wasn't it wasn't such a kind of big tackle two years ago when I first published, but I mean I've got man, we we shipped out like 300 books or something. I mean, I've I've been shipping so much that the lady just smiles when my wife takes it to the the post office and she talks her head off all about my books, you know. So when you get that many bookshops and stuff carrying it, it it really helps to stay organized. And as far as getting the bookshops and that, you know, I just see what's what's there, or if we're going to a festival or if I'm having a book signing at another bookshop and just message them and email or fill out their consignment for them because everyone's a little different. I mean, the worst case scenario, they can always tell me is no, which is okay. I've got plenty of rejections, so it's all right. But it just takes a yes. You know, if they say yes, then I mean, hey, it's another shop. And the the key that I realized early on was that you can sell books in person and you can talk to people in person, all that's important, but it's hard to get everywhere because of money, gas, time, you know, kids, life. So getting the reach, I guess you'd say, and getting the visibility more than the reach is the bookshops. And a lot of independent local bookshops, they really support their indie authors, they really are bent on, you know, helping us grow. And so if the more you get in there, then the more readers you're gonna get, the more visibility in different states. So I actually have a bookshop there in Elf at Newcastle, they carry my books, and then the HEA Romance Bookshop in Liverpool will carry my stuff. I mean, there's another one I'm speaking to that will carry online as well, they're in UK. So but it it takes a lot of work. I mean, I've I've spent like countless hours emailing this, and you know, I've got a list of like 400 bookshops by now that you know I'm emailing or talking to because it not everyone's gonna say yes. Some of them got certain requirements or some of them like curate their stuff for a certain thing. And you know, and if yours may not fit, then that's okay, but the next shop, you know, maybe give you a yes, and that's all it really takes.

SPEAKER_01 9:09

Yeah, sure. I mean for my Jack Strong series of them, but it's only really available online. There is a paperback, but I I need to update that a little bit. But yeah, my idea is to get some of the paperbacks into to bookshops because they're like middle grade young adult, I feel like with like online marketing, it's really hard for me to get to my target audience. So I'm I I'm planning at some point, probably about a month or two, to look for some independent bookshops. It's a good place to start, to be honest. But looking at some of these, maybe uh more geared towards younger people and just see how I go. And I I encourage anyone out there, you know, to to follow your your lead, to be honest, Ryan, because I think you're right, they can only say no. But if they say yes, I I I you know you you're gonna sell books, people are gonna come into the bookshop, they're gonna they're gonna take notice. So I think it's it's potentially quite powerful, I would say. And I was gonna ask you as well. Sorry, sorry, carry on, Ryan.

SPEAKER_00 10:10

It's okay. It it is, and you know, uh just add a note to that too. Like, if you go to a book a festival or book event, even if it's a small event, what I've found is that people know people. And so I've gotten several bookstores or several events just by talking to other authors, you know, or like I always offer to help authors and that kind of thing. But a lot of bookstores, even mobile bookstores, they're gonna go to these festivals or they're gonna go to these uh author fairs and they're gonna be there. So if you're already there, just you know, walk up to them and talk to them. I really noticed that last year a lot. So that's what I would do too, is if we went somewhere like a local author fair or whatever, I would just talk to every author I met, gave them cards, introduced myself, and then all the bookshops be like, hey, here's my stuff. You know, and sometimes I mean I've sent books to bookshops for free just because they're like, hey, I mean, we're on a you know, books are a thin margin. You don't make you gotta sell a lot to make anything. And so they're like, we just can't afford it. And I'm like, you know what? It's okay. I want you guys to have my books. I want to help and support. So here you go. Have them, and then after it's sell, then you can pay me. And that's helped a lot too. So just some tips for people out there.

SPEAKER_01 11:22

Yeah, one thing I want to check out as well is maybe libraries where I heard that like if you've got books in libraries, every time someone borrows it, you do get a little amount. And that's the kind of thing where I don't mind. I you know, if there was a library that wanted to take my work, I'd give them, I don't know, 10 copies or something. I wouldn't mind because I think I'd get the money back in the long run. But I've I've got to check that next, to be honest.

SPEAKER_00 11:48

Yeah. I was gonna ask, sorry. Oh, yeah. I mean, libraries, they they do. You can go to draft a digital and you can get, I think it's Kubo, maybe. Libby's on there too, but they get a certain it's like 70 cents or something, depending on what you set your price. Now, UK's different. UK's interesting on their library system because if you get in the library system, it's not kind of like here in the States in America, uh, where you got to go to like every single library in UK. If you get into the library system, it is a lifetime, lifetime guaranteed, you'll get you know, maybe 70 cents, but it's something, and it's not just like one uh area, it's the entire country of the UK. So I I didn't know that till last year at my networking event, and that's the big difference between like you know, UK and the States, where here in the States you gotta go to every single library or every single county, but there, if you there's a national library system that connects the whole country, and you just get it in there, and then doesn't matter where in the country, if they borrow it, you get a certain percentage for the the whole life, your life and beyond.

SPEAKER_01 13:00

So yeah, yeah. It's how like a lot of even like traditionally published authors, they can still make not a lot of money, but you know, a little bit, a little bit. So that's how I heard of it. I heard of it that way as well. So it's something I'm keen to pursue as well. I was gonna ask you as well, Ryan. You mentioned again about you being on trips to the UK, you know, giving book talks, selling bucks, of course, across America. What's that like? How does that what's the experience like?

SPEAKER_00 13:28

It's it's humbling, it's the biggest thing. It's it's humbling, you know, and I I try to give credit to my eighth grade teacher and teachers and those people that serve just the way I dedicated the Flair Chronicles to my teacher, and because of her, you know, I am where I am and all the humbling people, but it's challenging. So I work at a hospital and I float between that and the clinic. And then my RN and CNA classes started this weekend. So between that and the dogs and the chickens, and we got three boys, and my wife's a CNA that works every weekend night shift. It gets a bit it gets a bit hairy trying to balance everything because like yesterday, you know, just even going two hours away, by the time I drop the boys off, then pick them up for my grandma's, get home, do some of the billing in that, uh, because I do have a very like I keep a ledger and all that stuff, a little bit more than most, it's 10, 11 o'clock at night. So it's it's very humbling, it's very fun, but it's very time consuming, I will say. I've met a lot of directors, I've met a lot of cool authors, a lot of amazing readers that you know I would have never met if I would have stayed kind of in my bubble or in my central area. And I think that's the key, you know, for us as authors is that we need to branch out because there's more people than just around where you live at. You know, even if it's not a big trip, you're just going there and coming back home that night. But there's more readers that really, really support indie authors out there, you know, and they don't just live next door. So UK was fun. When I went to London for that networking event, it was a definitely a different, interesting experience because I'm used to farm fields right beside me. So and even the bigger city had London had way more people than that, but everyone was really kind. I actually met a lot of interesting people. I met a movie producer, I met an agent that I still talk to for one of the big publishing houses over there. So, you know, you you meet and intertwine with people kind of doing those things and you you build your community. And I would say, you know, it's it's about networking is the huge I mean, being author is so much about networking and just finding the right people and connecting with the right people. But it's a it's a whole new experience. I've we traveled 9,000 miles last year, I did, not including the the plane ride over there when I went. So yeah. But it was it was fun and humbling, and so my wife doesn't drive uh if it's not in the the uh country. So I I got sea a lot, I would say, and a lot of a lot of road.

SPEAKER_01 16:13

Yeah, I just want to echo your point. I I I think you're right about networking. It's something I've come to appreciate, you know, maybe only recently, like during the podcast, but I'm a big believer for you know for independent riders, or even even traditionally published writers, because I think there's many traditionally published writers that are closer to independent indie riders than they realize really, unless you named like JK Rowling, Stephen King, George Martin. The odds are no one's heard of you being honest. And so you have to get yourself out there and you have to be prepared to kind of you put your neck out there, someone might chop it off. But you know what? I find I I I learn a ton, you know, meeting people like self, you know, and oh you do that. Oh, you can do that, that's possible. Oh, great, I'll I'll try that. Things like that, really, to be honest. Especially social media, I think we need to be a bit, you know, we've got to get our public faces on it, I'd say. Just very quickly as well, I you mentioned about going to the UK. So it's a bit of a joke, but what did you think of UK food then?

SPEAKER_00 17:19

Oh, it's so much better than America. Oh, really? Yeah, it's it tasted better. I enjoyed it. And now I I would tell you, I was missing my killing Mountain Dew. I guess you'd say the horrendous Mountain Dew that we have over here because I I drink, you know, a can a day. But other than that, it was it was good. Most of the time I backpacked because that's what you do, just walk. So you get a sandwich and a Pepsi and you just walk pretty much everywhere you want to go.

SPEAKER_01 17:47

Yeah, I think in some ways, like in the UK, that's our version of McDonald's, like the sandwich shops, capacity shops. That's and I do love it as well, to be honest. I do quite miss that. Yeah, just moving on. For your books, are there any like characters that you've written that you're particularly proud of or you want people to know about in any way?

SPEAKER_00 18:10

Yes, so Daniel uh in the Flair Chronicles was actually modeled after my youngest brother, Daniel. So when I was writing that, he wasn't 16 at the time, he was younger, but to see kind of him uh grow up and to see him progress, that has been amazing, you know, and to see to see that has really truly been inspiring to me. Uh he, you know, we didn't get to see each other a lot. We had different dads, so to see from beginning to end, I always get asked the question, you know, are you kind of sad with book three coming out? And I said, No, not really, because one of the characters based off him and now he's older, and you know, just to see that transformation. And a lot of things, like a lot of his characters based really heavily off him, especially when he was younger and kind of going through life as I got older and he got older. And then Trisha was actually based off of a girl I dated in a high school. I I don't know where she's at. I hope someday she hears all the podcasts that might keep mentioning her name, but she was very much to the character to a T because she kind of had been hurt by the world and she was going through a time. Family life wasn't so great, so she was kind of kept, you know, herself kind of hidden, or her emotions inside. And you really see that in the Flair Chronicles. She's really to herself, she's scared, she's going through emotional, you know, and she's got this true kind of power of magic in that, but she she hasn't wielded it in a long time, or she doesn't want to or know everything because she's still learning. Um, she's afraid of what it may outcome. And Trisha was the same way in real life. She she was a great person, she was a sweetheart, but the world kind of beating her up a little bit, so she was afraid of her true potential, I guess you should say.

SPEAKER_01 20:01

Yeah, it's interesting you you're basing characters on real people. I I'm definitely very similar. Some people, you know, I should have say some characters are definitely based off one particular person, then others, it's like maybe an amalgam of people, like particularly my like female characters. I might put six or seven girls in them and stuff, and then you know, let them run with it a bit. Uh so yeah, get really cool. Yeah, I was also gonna ask you as well, like obviously you're writing a fantasy series. Are there any fantasy books or or movies, for example, that have had like a big impact on you as a writer?

SPEAKER_00 20:35

So uh in middle school I wrote, well, I didn't wrote, but I read over 300 books a year. And still to this day, Dragonlance has been the the most, I guess, influential, uh, besides, you know, Harry Potter and Eargon. There was another series, but I can't remember his name. I I only found out one location. Redwall was another big one, you know, not only the the worlds and that kind of thing, but like Redwall. I mean, this guy was like 67 years old in a little town in Italy, you know, middle of the mountains, great, grape town, nowhere, and he wrote this and it became a massive hiss. On the like inspirational side for me, I was like, hey, like that's really cool, you know, like someone doing that at that age because you just didn't hear of it, you don't see of it. Um, and then I was like, I could I want to do that. Like that would be cool to be, you know, that guy, and then I played a lot of D, so that was you know, kind of my playground, I guess you'd say. And then I played a lot of computer games. I don't play so much now, but I did a lot when I was younger. And when I first read Dragonlance, because I someone uh gave me a good reference for it, I was like, this is just mind boggling. It's just amazing, you know. I was so obsessed with it so much that one birthday I got like 14 books. That was my only birthday present. That's all I wanted was books. So we went Barnes Noble and Dad. I got this heap and stack, and he was just like, This is your birthday present. He's not a reader, so he did he just didn't understand, you know. And I was just fascinated. The world was so complex, but it was so like relatable, you know, like I could I could relate to any one of those characters and put myself in their shoes kind of growing up and the you know transition of teen and even early teen years and before that, the the struggles that you know children face and that kind of thing. I had a blended family, so I didn't have, you know, and when I was younger a lot, my dad was a single dad for 99% of the time. He worked 16 hours till and die. My grandma helped raise me, my great-grandma, and so I didn't have you know, we lived in even more country than I do now. I had five there were five houses on this one-lane road for 10 miles. There's 10. It's grown a little bit, but so to me, to to make those characters relatable in the the map was a huge thing too. I love maps and Dragonlance maps, as you know, are just massive. I mean, there's like there's like five or six of them too. There's not just one. And so when I write my books, I try to make it where it's relatable, where you know, it don't matter who you are or what stage of life you're in, but you can really look at that just one, maybe two characters and say, Hey, I've been there. I was that girl, I was that guy, you know, I've had to face those hard choices. And as you read book two, you'll see, you know, Daniel's been beaten up a little bit, and he has to face some hard choices because his life's kind of turned upside down, and he's got scars now from the first book. So I think we all have to face those difficult choices in life, no matter what age. And so making it relatable was really a big thing for me, and it was something that you know, those books growing up, I I really related to.

SPEAKER_01 23:58

Yeah, interesting. I'll be honest with you, I've not heard of Dragon Lance, but as you've been talking, I've made a note of it. So I will check it out. I'm always on the lookout for new fantasy. I suppose in this case it's an old it's old fantasy, but either way, I need new stuff, fresh stuff. Sounds pretty cool. I was gonna say as well, like if you like long series, have you ever read the Wheel of Time series by Robert Jordan?

SPEAKER_00 24:23

I haven't yet, but I've heard a lot about it. And you know, I didn't even know Brian Sanderson, he rewrote it. He got asked to rewrite it a little bit. So I watched a podcast, it was like a three-hour podcast, and he was giving advice and speaking about his you know beginnings to now, and he mentioned it, he wrote it. So I've heard really good things about it, and it's on my bucket list to read. Not my TBR.

SPEAKER_01 24:48

Yeah, I do recommend it. I I don't think the TV show is that good. I've not watched it, but I've heard from people that say it's not that good. I do recommend the books. It looked it's long, it's 14 bucks. I think all the books are pretty long, and some are like there's some that are a bit windy, but like the first four absolutely kill it, four of the best books you'll ever you'll ever read. And I think like at the end of book five, best battle scene uh ever in fantasy for me. I want to support best just amazing. And then it just carries on like that, but like Brandon Sanderson, yeah, he finished because the author the author Robert Jordan he died unported he passed away. And so, yeah, Brandon Sandon was hired to finish the last of three, though the last page uh uh of the of the last book is Robert Jordan. He he he'd he'd written that before he passed away. Uh but I do recomm I do recommend it. It's great for characters, world building, magic systems. I think that's one of the I've only read it, you know, one time because it's 14 books. I'm a bit scared to kind of go back in, but I I when you read that first book, once things start to happen, shall I say, once the fantasy elements really kick in, it just like it's like being on a boat on a fast river. You just get taken away and you're like, oh my god, this is this is just incredible. I've got 14 more books of this. Yeah, that I think that that that's one I always recommend to people. And Brandon Sanderson as well, he has written some good fantasy as well. I've read have you have you read uh Stormlight Stormlight archive? Yes, yes, yeah, Way of Kings Way of Kings, whatever you want to call it. Yeah, I've read the first five, well, the first five books, only five books out there. But you mentioned about obviously the character Daniel based upon upon your brother as well. And it kind of leads me on to like like like themes. Like what would you say are the main themes in in your book and books?

SPEAKER_00 26:53

I mean, the really the main themes, and you'll see this a lot, especially when book two is never giving up, chasing your dream, you know, being finding yourself, finding uh what you want to do, uh continuously searching for your goals, you know, and meeting those goals. But don't be afraid to put yourself out there and see what happens. Don't be afraid to, you know, take an adventure or try something new. Or, you know, if someone's telling you I shouldn't do this, like this is a bad idea, but it's really dear to your heart, you should chase after it and you should just run and never stop, you know. And one day it it may, it may pay off, but if not, you should enjoy the ride and you should love what you do. Daniel starts off, and one of the biggest, not really complaints, but biggest things people are like, well, why is this? Because he starts off, you know, just simple quests, he's trying to find his heritage. So I don't go into the books like here's you know, Voldemort over here, here's the wizarding tower over here. Like, I don't really explain the whole lay of the land. You know, you discover the land, the lay of the land as you're progressing through the series. I do explore a lot more myth, the mythology, and the lay of the land in book two, just because it has a lot of the background and the lore, but it's not your typical fantasy world building, you know, where you go in, the author spending like twenty to fifty, maybe a hundred pages right, fresh from the gate, kind of explaining what they're walking into, what the reader's kind of diving into that world. So he goes off in that simple quest, just hey, I want to learn more about my heritage, you know, I want to find where I came from, I want to meet family, my royal prince, so I want to see if there's any other linge out there, and I've got these scrolls and map and you know all these things that I've worked with the rural people, and then he meets the legendary Swordsman Brock tree that had been, you know, myths and lore kind of about him, but he kind of vanished. Well, he was tied up, and so he frees him, they kind of embark on this quest together, and then soon what you'll find is that they become a brotherhood. And sometimes that brotherhood doesn't have to be your blood, it doesn't have to be someone that you know you in the family, it can be someone not even related to you. So that theme of finding your clan and sticking with your clan, and that you know, brotherhood is stronger than any blood out there really becomes prominent through uh the series, you know. And I I guess you can say I wrote it that that part of it in the aspects of my life, because with my dad being a single dad, he was never home, he was working, you know. I was I didn't have any brothers, sisters that were at home. I had half brothers and sisters, but I seen them every other weekend. So, you know, I didn't have that brotherhood connection, you know. It was people that wasn't my blood, it was people that I met later in life and that kind of thing. And so, but you you also see as they go on, I mean, they they get beat up, you know, and I won't give spoilers to the end of book one, but people were really waiting for book two because of the the ending. They're like, what? You can't leave me here hanging. And so, you know, even all through book two, I mean, he's not the same 16-year-old he was. He's 17, he's a little bit older, a little bit wiser, but he's changed. And so, but they never give up. Him, Brock Tree, and Trisha, you know, they've they formed kind of a family pact at this point. And no matter what the world kind of throws at them, the evil forces, the evil queen, all the bad stuff, how many losses they've had, how many lives had to be paid the price, they never give up, they keep going for it, and they're their spirits unbroken. So for me, I really hope it conveys to people that you know you can still be the light and the darkness and to keep following your dreams. Because I know the world will tell you, well, don't do this. You should do this traditional path that da-da-da-da-da. And it's like you should chase your dreams and you should, you know, remember that you should never give up and you should keep going no matter what. So I hope that it that conveys that out of the series. And I mean, yeah, you get some cool fancy battles and you know, that DD aspects too, that makes it interesting, but on a deeper level, you'll see those themes very uh heavily as you progress.

SPEAKER_01 31:29

Yeah, sounds cool, really. I I can't, you know, argue with that really. Never give up, keep chasing your dreams. It's something actually I try to tell new writers this to new writers on you know things on threads or Instagram, and especially when they've written their first book. And I'm always trying to say the most important thing is you keep doing it. It's amazing for anyone to write one book, but the amount of writers that get, say, to the fifth book is very, very, very small. And I think it's really important. Never give up, keep chasing, keep, keep trace, uh chasing your dreams. I think, you know, as we've said earlier, you know, try to think creatively, put yourself out there. One thing I've learned from like, you know, different authors like yourself that are coming on on my show is you know, find your validation in different ways. I used to find validation by I want to get a literary agent, I want to get traditionally published, I want to sell loads of books. Well, guess what? None of those things have happened. And so I was basically at you know point zero. I didn't I had nothing. But then I started to think, well, you know, just publishing a book's good, getting some good reviews is good, selling one book is good. And you have to, I find as a writer, you've got to find your validation in different ways. So you can feel not always good about yourself, but maybe good about like the the quest, let's take it like D D, you know, good about the quest that you're on. Because it is a quest, it is a quest. And I think we do find, you know, find out about different things about ourselves and our characters as we go along. I I would say. That brings me to the next point I want to ask you, Ryan. Do you have any like tips for like, you know, new writers out there at all?

SPEAKER_00 33:20

I mean, we've touched on this a little bit, but definitely reach out to authors that have written books and things like that. I I feel uh as a community, most writers are very, you know, supportive and they will help and they will kind of guide you the way. Do your research, you know, but also kind of just put yourself out there and you know, never, never stop. Because, like you said, it's easy, they get their first book, but then what at least what I ran into, you get a lot of rejections, you know, people are excited for you. You got friends and family that will kind of rally around you, and you've got some kind of people outside of that, like where you work or where you grew up, you know, those kind of people, they're always gonna be there. When you're new and you're having to go different places, I mean you're literally like, hey, like buy this, like please be you know, because you're glorified sales guy at that point because you don't know them, you know, they don't know you from Kingdom Comes. So, but if if you don't stop and you keep going, then that I also recommend a newsletter. I my newsletter is something I always try push because it's a direct connection between you and the readers, they see your monthly stuff, they see what's going on. You know, it helps build that and solidifies that relationship that you need to have a lasting readership base, you know. And also what I said is like talk to a writer, talk to someone that's kind of been out there. I'm always willing to help. I give local author shout-outs and business shout-outs. And, you know, the other night I spent three hours on the phone with a new writer just trying to steer him the right way. Because when I when I published, I didn't have no one. I had to learn everything myself, you know, and had to learn some hard lessons and some great lessons. But I didn't kind of have like a go-to kind of clan that I I have now because of the communities I've been in and things I've done and people I've met. And so I don't want anyone to, especially a new writer, because the moment you say a writer, you get bombarded by marketers, you get bombarded by crazed emails, or someone that wants your money at somewhere, some shape or form, they're just gonna bombard you. You know, there's a lot of good people that don't, and a lot of people that want to help, but it's a whole different kind of level, I think, when you say, Oh, I'm a writer, I've got this book, it's not the same as like what it was, what it would be if you didn't say that, you know what I mean? So it's just a different uh it's just a different different take, I guess. So don't run into it blindly because there's a lot of people that will help. So I I talked to I think it was three scribes. I talked to the the mom, I believe that's part of the the trio. Uh yesterday a book signing, and we kind of said the same thing, you know, and we was exchanging things, and because they're a new writer and they've got a new book and things like that. So I really love that community, and I feel like the writing community is definitely a big supportive group.

SPEAKER_01 36:20

Yeah, for sure. I've got to say as well, I love the point you made about newsletters. Um it's something I keep meaning to do, and I am going to do it when I do find time. I as you know, some people on here know, doing a podcast, it keeps me busy. I I didn't realize how busy I'd be, to be honest. There's sometimes I'm just on my phone, just for 30 minutes, but it's 30 minutes I don't have. I'm just responding to messages, you know, or you know, I'm trying to book, you know, a guest, you know, to appear on the podcast. And I can't just say, you know, hey Ryan, you're gonna do it, you know, next weekend or whatever. We'll have to find out things like what time zone you're in, what about these dates? Are you okay? Because sometimes people aren't okay with that. And you have to kind of bounce around times, and there might be three, four, five people on the goal at the same time. But the newsletter does sound really fantastic, I've got to say, and it's something that I uh, you know, well, I'm not I'm considering it, but I'm I'm taking notes and I'm just trying to hopefully find time, maybe in May or June, to kind of look at a couple of, shall we say, publishing projects that will just kind of help me to kind of maybe, you know, again, get myself out, get my my work out in you know in different ways. Yeah, one more thing I was going to say, you you touched on it there about like new writers, is I think for new writers, especially if you're sending your book out, especially if you're talking to different people, you will get a lot of advice, but sometimes it can be conflicting. You know, you might get somebody that really likes this scene and someone else that that just completely hates it. And so, and there could be five people like that on one side and five people like that on another. And it can be hard sometimes, I think, to kind of wade through the advice. I think personally speaking, I think you learn as time goes by. You just kind of the more you do it, the better you get at it, the better you get at, you know, taking advice and going, nah, nah. I I remember one advice. Oh, sorry? No, go ahead. Yeah, I I got some advice on on my first book, Jack on my first Jack Strong book. Well, this is going back, the advice would be like 10 years ago, and I still remember it, but it was just like, nah. It was just a it was just a critique of the way I opened the book, and it's like so many other people like it. Now that's not to say sometimes this is this is the hard thing about you know criticism. Sometimes they're right, you and you either accept it straight away, or over time you begin to see the the value of it, and you begin to see that they're right. But sometimes, over time, you're like, no wait, they're completely wrong, and they're full of it, you know, and and and that that can be difficult for writers, I believe, to be honest.

SPEAKER_00 39:19

It can be, you know, and something to keep in mind too is the marking changes. So it's it's not the same, you know, every every year, every couple years, it's just not a it's a different generation, right? There the readers get older, new readers come. I mean, it's uh people technology changes, it gets advanced, people's kind of habits change. So it's it's never a learning journey, I feel like being a writer is something that you it's just a lifelong learning journey because you know what exactly what you said, like what works for you may not work for someone else. But I I do feel strongly that you know new writers should try it and at least just see, hey, is this kind of my vanilla or not? You know, and it it really reminds me of what Brian Sanderson said in one of his like teachings when they like aired on YouTube or whatever. But he said, We're all trying to write the same fancy book. We're all trying to write the same book. The the key is to put your own unique twist on it. And I think that applies to so many levels of being a writer, you know, not only just writing, but also the marketing and also the different aspects, because you know, it's not just easy, like cut and dry out there. You know, twenty twenty years ago it probably would have been cut and dry. You you know, you publish a book, you hope to get agent, and then be traditionally published, or you go to you know, any local book sign and there we didn't have the podcast, we didn't have the interviews, the you know, the technology kind of wasn't there, so it was just simple kind of blast name. But now, I mean, that has sprawn into so many, like even kind people or influencers that are willing to give a shout out, or like you doing a podcast, you know. I mean, that's spawned a whole different kind of thing. So it's not one cut path that kind of will get you where you will go or get you there. I do believe that everyone should kind of have their own take and own feel, you know, and see what works. But also just remember that if it doesn't work, it's okay. You learn and try something new, and then kind of fit to your niche and fit to you because we're all different and everyone is different in that aspect, you know what I mean? So I I get asked a lot, like, well, how are you in here and how you this and how like what'd you do? And I basically just tell people that kind of that, but also tell them that you know, I I just I know my story is good enough. I'm determined to get my name out there, so I just run with it. And you just smile with the rejections and you whatever, and it's okay, and you keep on going, but every what I did may not work for you, you know. Sure, definitely.

SPEAKER_01 42:01

It's such a subjective marketplace, you know. A really good example is it might have been Brandon Sanderson or Stephen King said, just go and look at all the one-star reviews of like classics like Macbeth or Great Expectations on Amazon. Because there are there, but it's just like you can get a bad review. If that maybe even like I I once read that the goal, maybe the goal of being a writer is to get one-star reviews because it makes your your book and the book reviews more realistic. It shows the audience it's not just you know your friends and family saying, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I love it. You know, so and then I I interviewed these two writers a couple of weeks ago called Brian and Alan Manning. And they use one-star reviews in their promo, you know, the way they've been written. I was like, wow, that that's ballsy. And it made me think, do you know what? Maybe I should do the same thing. I have got like a three-star review on uh my Amazon. I didn't like didn't like to review, but maybe I should try and do that. I should should read it, should put it on like um on like a photo on Instagram and say, hey, do you want to know how wrong this guy is? Well, read book two. Something like that. I don't know. It might be kind of cool, to be honest.

SPEAKER_00 43:24

I mean, yeah, it's an interesting marketing technique.

SPEAKER_01 43:28

Yeah, I mean, like anything, it can only it can only fail.

SPEAKER_00 43:32

Right. If anything, it would pite people's curiosity, you know what I mean? Like, well, I should really check that out and see if he's wrong. Exactly, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:40

Yeah, but yeah, I I I have thought about doing it, to be honest. I think I was gonna ask you as well next is you know, at the moment there's a huge controversy, especially in America, I think, about AI, AI and writing or and and AI and publishing, because that's another thing that's in the conversation that I think Sometimes writers don't know enough about how AI is increasingly being used by the publishing companies. But what is your take on it, Ryan?

SPEAKER_00 44:09

I mean a AI is, I would say, okay in depending on how you use it, you you have to be really, really careful with AI because there are so many covers generated that are AI uh that you couldn't tell. I mean, a it's just become that that good, I guess you you'd say uh, you know, almost seem kind of lifelike that you it's really hard to tell the difference. I do believe that the work itself should be written, handwritten, or typed up by the writer. And I know like we all got lives, you know, sometimes AI for marketing. I know people that's a whole nother discussion. There's a lot of people that's like no AI for anything. Some people are like, well, AI, you know, if you use it for marketing, as long as you're not like stealing anything, you know, and you can't afford maybe a marketer and you're doing things all yourself. I mean, some kids, some people have more than three kids. They've got seven, or they've got grandma and grandpa to take care of her aunt and uncle. Like their lives are a little bit kind of hectic, you know. It's it's a very gray line. But I will tell you that in Evansville, and I never thought this would possibly be possible, but AI is definitely, I guess, on the doorsteps of not only writers, but I know the uh movie industry is really fighting it and pushing hard on as well because it's involved their writers, their create creators, even the filmmaking it's gotten his hands into. So there was a comic bookstore that my books were in, and when I was calling them and talking to him, they almost did not take my books because they thought I was the AI guy. And I was like, what? What like there's a guy named the AI guy, you know what I mean? And so it baffled me. So I went in there and they they finally took him once they seen I was real, and you know, we talked, but I guess there's a guy now going around and saying his cover's made with AI, his book was written by AI, and he's like the proudest thing ever in saying like he's a writer. And I will tell you, I mean, I never thought in my day I would see that or hear that even, but that's how prominent it is becoming that people are going to that level, you know, and it the the sad thing is when you put it on a cover, you're taking away not only creativity from yourself, but you're taking jobs away. That's that's someone's business that you know they may be a stay-at-home, but they're ghostwriting, they're editing, but they're also doing covers, or they may be only doing covers because you know, their mom, their significant other schedule that one of them's got to be home. It it's really one of those things where it used to, you know, like when my dad was younger and kind of that kind of thing, you know, traditionally you you went to work, graduated, went to college, and went to work. Like mom and dad could work, you have daycares, you have schools. Unfortunately, it's not the same world we live in. So sometimes you've got mom and dad working two different schedules, or you've got one working weekends and one staying home. Uh, because now daycares like triple the cost. I mean, I remember paying it. So it's not, you know, when you start using AI for some of that stuff that people rely on for a living, you're not only taking away jobs, but you're also hurting the local people, you're hurting the economy, and you're hurting those people that, you know, that is their day job because they can't afford daycare or their, you know, there's health concerns, or whatever the case may be, but that's in their life, that is their what they're doing, you know, and they're trying to make a living out of it. So it's one of those things that I don't know. I'm not a huge fan of AI. I really try to use no AI. I I really strive not to use at all. But I I've seen the arguments, you know, I've I've heard the stories, and I know it's something that, you know, 20 years ago I'd tell you, well, we don't gotta worry about that. And I've got 10 years or more of IT background. I've got a degree in IT, so I can tell you just from working in the field and going to school how much technology has changed. And 20 years ago, it was a thing of, you know, it was, well, that's not here. Uh what I can tell you now is though, it's here and it's something we're having to deal with. And as that progresses, it's gonna be something that we're gonna have to deal with even more because it's just gonna be so convoluted and it's gonna be just in there, you know. I mean, the government's giving money for AI, so it's it's not it's not uh it's just a different world, it's not the same one that, you know, and you can't you can't avoid it, I guess. You can't kind of just turn a blind eye because it's there, it's out there, and it's increasing discussion. But I I'm very strongly against AI. I know some use it for marketing because of time and that, and I and I understand that because there's only so many hours in day, you know, the your life situation may be different. It may not be a lot of time or financials or whatever the case may be. But I I I do know it's a very uh heavily fought over field, I guess you'd say.

SPEAKER_01 49:27

Yeah, I mean I I do agree with you. I think AI is here to stay. I I think I have seen some arguments online saying you know, it's a bubble, it's gonna pop. Even if that was to happen, even if that was to happen, it would still come back. It's not we're not just gonna oh rim that thing called AI, we'll just completely bury it. It's it's not gonna happen. With regards to AI and the writing process, and I'll say this to anyone out there, why would you? You know, for me, if you use AI in the writing process, okay, just say for argument's sake, for argument's sake, just say it improves the quality of the butt. For argument's sake. Though I don't think that is the case, but just for argument's sake, I think over time, as a writer, you get weaker, you get less effective, you get less practiced, less skillful, because it's uh for me, being a good writer, being hopefully better than a good writer, it's about uh regularly writing and regularly editing. And I also chuck in reading because that you need to read and I think you need to experience life, you know, that that could be something like traveling, it can be getting married, it can be heartbreak, it can be unfortunately the you know, deaths of people around you who you love and all these things go into the butt. And if you're cheating on that, if you're not doing good parts of that, then I think over time you know you know, you t you tend to deteriorate, you become less good as a writer. I think I mean it's easy to to we can talk about AI here. One of the things I always try to tell people is is like the only problem with that is I know there's like famous writers out there, they're not using AI, but they're using human editors to do their editing, if that makes sense. So when you when you write a rough piece of work, you should do the editing first. But what they do is they pass it off. And if you notice on the D readers, you can tell that there's a shortfall in quality later on because they stop just editing their own work. So I I do feel pretty strongly about that that we've everybody in the writing process it should just be you because only you know your own work, I suppose. As for the rest, I'm I'm open-minded. One of my worries about the book cover is a really good example because book cover is one of those that kind of a lot of people are against it, but I can I can understand why someone might do an AI cover. One of my worries is just say I I commission an artist to do a book cover for me for my new book. How do and I pay them£10,£15,£20, whatever. How do I know that they've not used AI to do it in like two seconds and then charge me£20? That's my worry. That I'm and then I I'm moral, I'm ethical, do you know what I mean? But they've just used AI anyway. That's that's my worry. I what do you think about that?

SPEAKER_00 52:27

I mean, that's true, you know. That unfortunately, you know, you just you just don't know. And it's so it's so accessible. So it wasn't accessible 20 years ago, you know, but now it's it's everywhere, and it's not just like, oh, I'm gonna search the web for something this. It's you know, Samsung, Amazon. Well, we're gonna put this stuff in our everyday lives, like the phones, they're putting in all the phones now, they're putting in all the emails now, even you know, they call it algorithms, but it's still AI generated and all social media, like it's just so integrated that it's it's there and it's everywhere. So, I mean, that's a valid point because how do you know? You know, it's not it's not 20 years ago where they had to draw it. Not everyone had tablets, not everyone had phones, not everyone had computers. You you don't know. You know, it's the same with air net. Not everyone had air net. Now, you know, like where we live, you could go get T-Mobile and you could go use the cell phone towers. Because that's been a big thing. So accessibility is is good because you know they're expecting like my kids all their homework online and all that stuff. But in terms of AI, it can be a very can be worrisome because you you don't you just don't know. And it's not something that oh well only a few people have it. It's it's everywhere. Internet's everywhere, and uh the AI is accessible. So it's a genuine concern because it's some of those covers you can't tell. I mean, they look identical to someone that drew them. You just you can't tell.

SPEAKER_01 54:03

Yeah, I was gonna say for my Jack Strong series, I used, I'm not sure if it was a man or a woman, but somebody in Sri Lanka, so really out there, and I think I probably paid this a few years ago,£10,£15 each. And if I'm gonna do another but I would be tempted to use them again because I think did a great job. This is before AI. Now I'm not too certain that they wouldn't just use AI, to be honest. But to be fair, it would keep them in a job, don't get me wrong. It's just that I may as well do for free, India. That that's my way with that. I think what I'm gonna do, going back to the community, I'm gonna, when I'm looking for a new book cover, I'm probably gonna ask, you know, a few of the writers on on my Instagram group, hey, you know, who've you got to do your book covers and let me know. I think that's what I'm gonna do. And that might be the best way for a lot of people out there to, you know, to use people's recommendations. I I would say.

SPEAKER_00 55:11

Like they're trusted because yeah, you know, and that it's it's another beautiful thing about the writing community because everyone kind of bands together, but it's a safe place to say, hey, I need a recommendation for a cover, or you know, I've done some editing. What's just someone to look over? Or hey, can you just look over and see what I got? You know, doing everything, but just some feedback, like some honest feedback on this. And my romance, I've got two authors that are gonna put like a a quote or of something about that on top, but I'm giving them like a full like page and as soon as they open the book, like a shout-out and bio and all that stuff, just as a thank you, you know what I mean? So the writing community is really good about that. And I I meet a lot of kids with having a YA fantasy, you know, a lot of parents want clean epic high fantasy for their kids, and so I meet a lot of families in that. And one thing I've found really interesting is that a lot of kids are really talented. They're they're good drawers or they've they're writing, you know, they're really that that spark has kind of re-sparked, it's regrown, especially in the younger generation, from what I'm seeing. But the mom and dads, they're like, We're not riders, you know, we have no clue of any of this stuff. So I I do the same thing. I'm like, well, what do you need? What are you looking for in that? Because I'll I'll just go to the community and say, hey, does anyone, you know, such and such would help a fifth grader, sixth grade, or middle school or whatever. You know what I mean? And I I feel that's the best place anymore because AI is just so accessible. And unfortunately, you know, you can't hold someone's hand. You're just hoping and praying they're gonna be honest and do a good hand written cover or hand, you know, good job because you just don't know.

SPEAKER_01 56:57

Definitely. You know, can't disagree with you there, Ryan. Right, Ryan. I think we can end things that end things there, I think. It's a wrap, as they say, in the movie business. Well, yeah, I mean absolutely fantastic speaking to you, okay?

SPEAKER_00 57:12

You too. Thank you for having me on. I really appreciate it, and I'm always happy to help anybody can. But I had a blast, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 57:19

Yeah, you're perfectly welcome. Just remind everyone Ryan's box, the Flare Chronicles are out now on and so on, and obviously all in many independent book sales. Okay. Thank you, Ryan. See you later. All right, see ya.