#34: How Childhood Can Fuel Your Creativity - Eric Zhang

Want to know how to use your childhood to fuel your creativity? 

In this episode the children’s author and artist, Eric Zhang tells you how. He also discusses the dangerous impact of AI on creative spaces, how he balances his work and creative life, and his ongoing search for a Literary Agent.

Eric has published and illustrated several children’s books, including his most recent work, ‘I Want To Go To The Moon’. All his books have been published in several languages, including English, Simplified and Traditional Chinese, Dutch and Turkish. 

Perfect for authors and creators everywhere. Not to be missed.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Hello and welcome to another episode of What the Haze. I am your host, Hayes Wolfenden. I'm here today with the children's author and illustrator, Eric Jan. Welcome. Eric. Hey, hello, Hayes. Yeah, great to have you on my podcast. You've been on before, of course. You were my first guest. Oh, that's that one man. Yeah, in a way, you you started the ball rolling, to be honest, and got me into inviting people on the show. So thank you very much. I hear it. Okay, so um, first of all, Eric, can you tell me what are you working on at the moment?

SPEAKER_00 0:31

Uh so far, I I just finished a book. There's a new book coming out, I think. I'm not sure if it's it's by the end of this year or maybe the beginning of next year, but I got just finished a new book, so I'm not uh really working on anything serious right now. But there are several like storylines uh happening in my brain so far. So I'm just gonna, I don't know, document those ideas just in case I'm gonna use them later.

SPEAKER_02 0:57

Yeah, sure. So w the book that you've just finished, like what's it about?

SPEAKER_00 1:00

Oh, so uh again, it's another children's book. It's about telling children that do not lie, basically. Stop lying, or be honest. So it's about the protagonist entering a strange world where everybody just lying wearing masks. And well, firstly, uh the protagonists find this very, you know, very happy, very suitable for a for a student like him. So he started lying just like anybody else. And he gained some some interest. And uh he has gifts and he has desserts, everything's for free, you know, just by lying. There's no cost at all. But eventually he finds that, you know, through lying there's gonna be like bigger problems. So he decided not to lie, and he eventually escaped the lying world. That's the storyline.

SPEAKER_02 1:55

Yeah, sounds really interesting, I've gotta say, as well. Why did you choose this story? Like what what appealed to you at the time?

SPEAKER_00 2:01

Uh I actually it was inspired by my own childhood experience. I can still remember when I was in middle school, I used to lie a lot. Sometimes in front of my parents. And uh it's just I don't know. I I I just want to write a book about myself and how did I change? And I think children they should they shouldn't lie.

SPEAKER_02 2:26

Yeah, I think it sounds like a great, you know, theme, great subject for a children's butt, don't lie.

SPEAKER_03 2:32

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 2:32

Why? Because bad things happen. I like the idea that you you you tried to, you know, you use yourself as like inspiration. Uh-huh. I was like that when I wrote my book, Jack Storm and the Red Giant, and it's a way to kind of revisit myself, you know, as a kid, um, to be honest. I was gonna ask you as well. You mentioned about, you know, you you finished writing your book and you're not working on anything right now, but you got a few ideas in your mind. How do you like write these down or not write these down?

SPEAKER_00 3:01

Uh I would always bring like a notebook. It's always in my pocket, sometimes in my back. But it's just kind of like my habit. So every time I got inspired by something, sometimes I watch a kid doing a maybe he's doing some movement and it just looks stupid but also cute. I'll just write it down or I'll sketch it. You know, these little things wouldn't just add up in my notebook and and uh once I want to like write a new book, I would open my notebook and and check those ideas, see if I get inspired again.

SPEAKER_02 3:36

Do you have any idea when you're gonna sit down to write again or will you take like a while off yet?

SPEAKER_00 3:41

Oh, it's it it really depends on my on myself. I'm not a man of plans, so sometimes just innovate. Like sometimes maybe at the middle of the night I feel like I'm really into writing right now. I'll just do it. There's no specific time for you know writing things. You're purely about inspiration then, is that right? Yeah, like 100%.

SPEAKER_02 4:07

Okay, yeah, good for you. I I'm I'm somewhere in between. I like to kind of plan what I write, uh and I need to be inspired. But then when I'm just writing things, it's just right. I'm just trying to get it down. Yeah. So it's just a mixture of inspiration and discipline. And the longer I've written, the more I've done that. I I saw an Instagram post about a week or two ago saying the feeling you get when you, you know, finish you know writing a book. Yeah, I was like, yeah, I don't get that.

SPEAKER_00 4:35

Yeah, we'll get I guess we're just different Yeah, for me it's an island.

SPEAKER_02 4:38

A book knows an island in a stream.

SPEAKER_00 4:40

Yeah, I I guess maybe it relates to my because you know, we're both teachers, right? We have another occupation. I sometimes I write for fun. And I of course I want to publish my book and you know, get more money. But that's like things you would do during your leisure time or maybe off work. So there's no specific timeline for that. So every time I think about it and I feel like it, I'll do it. But like nobody's rushing me to do such thing.

SPEAKER_02 5:09

Yeah. Yeah, but sounds a great way to do it as well. Okay, so I know you're looking for an agent at the moment. How's that search going?

SPEAKER_00 5:16

Oh, I was looking for agents I think uh several months ago, but and right now I have contacts with several. Uh there are like uh three agents in America and uh one in Europe. I'm still uh negotiating with those agencies to see like who offers the best. Okay, so what when you say the best, what it what does the best look like to you? Well, it could mean many things, like first of all, money for sure. And also, on the other hand, like different agencies that would represent different illustrators and authors as well.

SPEAKER_02 5:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:54

Maybe some authors they write like nonfictions, and that's not my field. I need to find the most appropriate agent for myself, which is keen on working with like kids' books, okay, children's literature, such things. How do you approach them? What where do you find them? Um I think through many ways. I have contacts. I made contacts with several of those agencies in like book fairs. There was one in Frankfurt in 2023. I was there at that time, so I luckily I had contact with those agencies. And they sometimes they would introduce me to other agencies as well. And also I have friends who work in the business. Oh, that's good.

SPEAKER_02 6:40

That's that's really good. Yeah, book fairs, other authors have said that like it's a great way to meet people, and it's something I haven't really done. And it's something, as I'm talking to you now, I'm just mentally reminding myself, go and do that. Maybe even like I should have a look at online stuff, you know, like a Zoom call or whatnot. But one of the reasons I'm doing this podcast, not just with you, but with all the authors, is just to kind of scout people for want of a better word, and find out things about the industry. Because I I I don't know. Yeah, and I'm trying to find out. But yeah, good for you. I really hope it works out.

SPEAKER_00 7:16

Yeah, I think for I don't know, I maybe for many writers and illustrators, they don't have like extra pathways of finding, you know, agencies. There's always like like a mainstream way to find those ones. You could just go online and just type in those agencies' names and they have the the link to submit your work. So that's very direct.

SPEAKER_02 7:39

Yeah, I do that one, but it's it's really a hundred percent rejection rate. I do get like the occasional reply that's really complimentary about my writing, but I'm just kind of one of the reasons I again I started to podcast was because I felt like I needed to be able to advance myself a bit more when you do like the author bio. I need to be able to say, hey, this is who I am, I can do the marketing on my own. You don't you and the publishing company don't need to market me. That that's one of the ideas of doing this. Although it is a I want to say it's a gradual process, but to be honest, since like January, December, the podcast's gone up like 300%. Although we're still dealing with relatively small numbers, but like I'm seeing like 300 downloads a month, which is really good. Wow. That's impressive. It it it is. I mean, it's not like Joe Rogan, it's not a million an episode. I'm not not that naive, but I think that it's one of those things, and I'll tell this to anyone that wants to kind of maybe sell bucks or promote themselves in some way. It's always incremental progress, and you will make mistakes. You can't do everything at once. Like my podcast, I still need to make a better or maybe a better intro into the podcast, like a Ditty or something.

SPEAKER_03 8:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:58

And I maybe need to do like a better like picture. Yeah, that I mean that could work. But it's finding the time. But at the at the moment, I there's no real need to rush, but it's something that that's that's gonna get done eventually. But again, the point I'm making is anyone out there, you don't have to do everything at once, just get yourself out there. And you learn a ton from the doing. That's what I always find. Yeah, moving on. So overall, what what are the major themes in your work? Or what themes do you like to go back to?

SPEAKER_00 9:26

I think for myself, I always l like every time I need to write something new and I need inspiration, I need a theme, I would just look up look back. Sometimes I would just think about my own childhood experience. That's where I get most of the most inspiration from. I'll just look at myself like a mirror and I'll reflect. I think there are several things I I quite like. I like most actually. Seeking dreams. Okay. That's one I think I think that's definitely one of my key themes. You know what I'm talking about. Yeah, yeah. And I don't know, I I just feel like because you know, teaching you get to see different kinds of kids. And to be honest, I find some of my uh students they lack of confidence and they need a goal. I just want to create like more books to inspire like children, like I think that's great. Find targets.

SPEAKER_02 10:26

Yeah, I I yeah, dreams, goals, ambitions. I I totally agree. I think it's everyone.

SPEAKER_01 10:33

Just going to interrupt this fantastic interview with the author to advertise my buck, Jack Strong and the Red Giant. Well, what is it about? It's about a boy, Jack Strong, who's getting beaten up at school. And one day he runs away from home but is kidnapped by a strange, almost magical spectacle. The rest of the book about him and how he gets on with his new alien account. And he must do this to boost his confidence and his abilities. Otherwise, at the end of the book, they will not escape this strange volcano-infested planet. Okay, let's go back to the podcast.

SPEAKER_02 11:17

I think a lot of authors would, you know, if they're listening now, be nodding their heads. Yeah, kids, we we all need dreams. I think if there's one thing that maybe is a little frustrating, you know, you know, where we are, I think there's too many young people that are in their teens now, they so don't seem to have any goals or even hobbits for that matter. They just seem to, you know, go to school not very well, and then they go home, they play a lot of computer games or or social media games, whatever. And that's it. They don't seem to have much ambition. And then, second to that is if they do want to be something, to say they want to be an artist, they don't understand that whatever you decide could be a dentist, it's very difficult. And to get to that, to realize the dream, you've got to work incredibly hard and you've got to be very patient and you've got to take setbacks. Yeah. And I feel that, you know, I think this is a worldwide problem. I don't just think it is here in China, it's a worldwide problem where a lot of young people have got it really well. They've got it made. Their mums and dads, they're wealthy.

SPEAKER_03 12:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:26

They're not like when I grew up as a kid, we, you know, we didn't have much money. I couldn't go on the school trips because my mum and dad at that time were out of work or in ill health. Whereas now, you know, my kids growing up and you know, me and my family, well, we're doing alright. Yeah, we're doing alright. My kid, if he wants to go on a school trip, yeah. Yeah. Anywhere in the world, mate, anywhere in the world. But what that does is it breeds a little bit of like maybe like contentment and over-contentment. Does that make sense? So, yeah, dreams. I I think it's fantastic. What uh what would you say are the main influences like on your art and like in the writing? Like, not I mean, aside from like obviously your childhood. I mean I mean like things like are there certain artists or certain writers or events that have like fed into your work?

SPEAKER_00 13:14

Oh, I definitely can give you a name. Like there's one artist I well, he's my icon. He's uh Sean Tan, and I don't know if you ever heard of him. He's he's Australian, but he's half Asian. He writes books, he illustrates them, and he is also like a director. He tried to write like animation films in Hollywood. He's he's he's quite famous and he's he's amazing anyway. And when I was studying, I always get inspired from his books. Like maybe if you have time, you can you can you can check several of his books. I got this feeling, like every time I look at those books, it's it's less related to children's book or you know, like what children's book would be like in in your head in the first place. Sometimes I feel like his books are for adults as well. And I do think adults need you could say children's books or like children's style books. They need to have dreams as well. And I mean, as you said, we're basically right now living in a money world. Every everything is about materialism, even the children's are. Like, sometimes I feel like everything, like everyone is trying to teach you to earn more money. And everyone's just checking the ground, nobody's looking up, checking the sky. I I feel like being as a children's book illustrator, I need to insert those ideas, those dreams to next generation to let them dream again, not focusing on, you know, making money. I think that's definitely one thing that Shantan is focusing on.

SPEAKER_02 14:52

It seems great to me. I mean, kind of going back to what I was talking about before, I think with you know the advent of AI, I think that and money, we've all got a lot of money. Economies tend to be doing really well. They're more or less well managed. I don't think we're gonna have a Great Depression again because we know so much more about economics. And the result of it is we've we've got maybe an entire generation or generations of kids that are very contented and have got a lot. With AI, I think we're all gonna live longer. I think we're gonna we're not just gonna live longer, we're gonna live happily longer. I keep saying this when I was a kid in the UK, people died in their 60s. People retired and they died in their 60s, it was very normal. Now it's more like early 80s, yeah. So that's like that's almost a 20-year jump. Now, think about what it's gonna be like when we get to that age. It's gonna be likely maybe another 20 years on top of that, but we're gonna have to get used to the idea of living longer. Well, if we live longer and we're more productive and we're happier, what about the character? What about our soul? What about our dreams? And I think that a lot of schools around the world, I think, do a poor job preparing kids for these big changes. And these are huge changes. Imagine if you found out tomorrow you were gonna live to your 150. And maybe you and you could work to your 150. Oh, right, I can do spend a lot of time doing art, for example. You might be bored of art by the time you're 90. Well then what do you do? You know, and so people get dysfet, that kind of thing. You know. So things like that are gonna happen.

SPEAKER_00 16:28

I I I don't know. I think it would be a luxury if I can do art when I get to like 90s or maybe above.

SPEAKER_02 16:34

Well, yeah, and then but that's a fair point because you yeah, you've got this hobby, art, I've got this hobby, writing, loving podcasting at the moment as well. But there's my kids, apart from a computer game, there's no interest.

SPEAKER_03 16:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:50

And I was talking to a student yesterday who'd gone to London, you know, UK, came back, and I asked him, Hey, do you still play football? Because he used to play football all the time for the school. Great footballer, you know, for the school. Yeah, no, not really. And I said, Oh, it's a shame, but you're so good. Better than me when I was that age. Uh-huh. And it's a shame if when we're getting older, especially in our twenties, if we fall out of these habits of just doing something, having that interest because we need it. I I've known, unfortunately, a few people in that like their 40s have, you know, ended things, shall we say, in a in a politically correct way. And I think it's because, and I knew one of them reasonably well, he didn't have any interests beyond, you know, having a family drinking.

SPEAKER_03 17:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:39

There was no like burning. I want to be a successful rider. Every day that I wake up, I believe I'm one day or one step closer to being a successful rider. And to do that, I have to do something more or less every day that will bring the dream to me. But if you don't have that, what do you have? You're just nine to five, going to work, go on the supermarket, after a while, you hit your 40s and you you have maybe a crisis. Who what am I doing here? I I don't know. It's yeah, it it's it's becoming a serious issue, I think, for society generally, I would say. Uh, I was gonna ask you as well, Eric. Obviously, me and you, we work in the same school and you know, we we've worked in schools quite a bit. How do you balance, you know, working at a school and you know, writing and illustrating?

SPEAKER_00 18:30

Uh I get to ask this many times actually. Like my students, they they always come to me and say, I know you're doing art in school, but I also know you're still doing art at night at home. Like, how can you balance that? Like, isn't it maybe a bit too much for you? And I was like, no, I I think I'm having fun. Like, and you know, like working here, teaching, you're basically doing art for the for the students. Sometimes you demonstrate. Sure. And sometimes you lect lecture them. It's about the students. But when I get back home, doing art is more about myself. Like I can focus on things that I like I'm interested in. So I think it's it's kind of a leisure to me. So I'm not complaining, I'm doing extra work. And how do I balance writing and illustrating? Well, I would say I would spend 65% of the time like doing l illustrations, and maybe 35% of the time like doing writing things. And uh I don't know if I had said this to you before. I quite like this one book called Silent Books. So basically you illustrate a book without words that's called a silent book. Okay. So you just read pure images. And and uh when I was very young, I I I dreamed about being as a director. I quite I'm quite into like, you know, chaplain.

unknown 19:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:56

And I like films without words, without lines. I think it's it's an another form of art, and I I wanted to do so with my books. So I'll definitely spend more time illustrating. I mean I like doing art more, but it again, I'm not saying I don't like writing, I would spend other time like uh writing storylines for myself because you still need some uh like structures for your stories. When you're doing art at home, like how many hours do you spend doing it? Um it really depends. Sometimes I would stay up at I don't know 1 a.m., 2 a.m. in the morning. Because when you're really into one thing, you you always forget about the time. And it definitely applies to me. Like I would just forget about it.

SPEAKER_02 20:42

Yeah, to me you're coming across as like like a pure artist. Like that's what I imagined when I w when I was younger, that's what art is. When I I used to write, I still do write poetry intermittently. But when I first started writing poetry, I was the same. I would in my twenties, I would, you know, I'd work, I'd go home, I'd have my dinner, go upstairs, and I would write for about three hours straight. Just, you know, romantic poems.

SPEAKER_00 21:06

Yeah, I I mean I st I still do poems as well. Sure. Great. I would uh sometimes make images beside my words, you know, just make little dummy books.

SPEAKER_02 21:18

So good. You mentioned about the silent books, it's very interesting. I haven't read one specifically, but my wife bought this children's book for my son, and so there's lots of pictures, but the words are in Chinese, so I can't read Chinese. So I read it to him orally in English based on what I thought the pictures were telling me. She did tell me, my wife, that I was completely wrong. But it was interesting, I'll be honest, doing it, approaching the book that way. I'm also a big fan of these days, and when I read books and I download them on Amazon, maybe it's because I'm downloading them and I don't have a physical copy. To look. You get a physical copy, you get a picture on the front, maybe on the back as well, and then you also get like the book blurb. I'm trying as best as I can to stop reading book blurbs because you shouldn't have to understand the book based on reading a blurb. It should all be really in the first two or three pages.

SPEAKER_03 22:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:21

And I find that I'm enjoying books more by doing that. You know, maybe I want to know broadly what the book is about, you know. Yeah. Brian Mars, for example. But I don't need the blurb to help me. Yeah. Which is a bit anti-publishing, don't get me wrong. But I find as a reader I get a bit more from it.

SPEAKER_00 22:39

There was one lecture I got I g I mean, I still remember it. It was in London. Like offered by a professor. I think the title is Power of Image. Like that's the first lesson he ever gave to like most of us. Like, because we never encountered children's book or children's literature before. I was crossing the field. So he showed all of us a book. I think the book is called A Book of War. That's the name. It's a silent book. But I think most people are mistaken. They thought like children's literature or children's books are so naive, they're so shallow. But it's not. Like when I see that book, I instantly get the idea of what the author is trying to tell. Like war is terrible, that everybody should seek for peace. And even that like a two-year-old or a three-year-old can understand what he's trying to say. It's really strong just by showing those images. And I mean that's what I'm trying to do for a long time. Like just tell stories through pure images without words. I mean I right now I I I write uh texts and illustrations as well, but like for a long time I was so keen on, you know, those silent books and that immersed myself into those things, as those ideas.

SPEAKER_02 24:01

Yeah, it's interesting that silent movies as well. Like, so we obviously movies today are in colour. Uh occasionally you'll get a black and white movie because movies used to be made in black and white. But as far as I'm aware, there are no silent movies being made, but maybe there are in like certain independent, you know, movie festivals.

SPEAKER_00 24:21

Yeah. Not sure if they're still producing those right now, but definitely in 1920. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 24:28

Keep meaning to actually go back. Just go on YouTube, definitely go back and just watch some. Even like something like Laurel and Hardy. Yeah. You know, or Charlie Chaplin. But I don't and I should do, and I should make time, because I think I'm a big believer if you want to do something, you've got to make time for it, or it won't come to you. Just want to move on a little bit. So obviously we're talking a little bit about, you know, balancing work life and of course writing and art life. How does working in a school like like impact on your writing and art? I mean, like, does it does it does it help you? Does it give you themes, anything like that?

SPEAKER_00 25:05

It definitely helped me. It helps me a lot. Well, I'll give you an example. Like every time I sit in the canteen, I look at the students and they make stupid movements. But again, they look cute in my eyes. I'll just I'll just document them. Document this movement in my brain, and I'll just repeat it again later, maybe in my office, put it on on the on a book or on a piece of paper. I'll just illustrate it again. So school is like inspiration. It's like a place of inspiration. And I got inspired by the students every time I look at them, like they would come to me and say, Mr. I'm having a problem. Here's this, blah blah blah blah blah. Maybe it's about his adolescent time or Puppet Love, or like maybe it's about his academic scores. And I sometimes I got inspired by those things and I'll I have this impulse to write something about it. And sometimes I'll think about myself as a problem solver. Like if there's such a thing, if there's such a book I could write, I could illustrate to help them solve that problem, why shouldn't I do it? That's a great way of saying it.

SPEAKER_02 26:20

I I I don't if I was answering my own question, because I I sometimes ask myself this question, and I'm like, I'm not too sure.

SPEAKER_01 26:28

I think because I write Hi everyone, just going to interrupt this fantastic interview with the author to advertise my buck, Jack Strong and the Red Giant. Well, what is it about? It's about a boy, Jack Strong, who's getting beaten up at school. And one day he runs away from home but is kidnapped by a strange, almost magical speech. The rest of the book is about him and how he gets on with his new alien shipmates. And he must do this to boost his confidence and his abilities. Otherwise, at the end of the book, they will not escape this strange volcano-infested planet. Okay, let's go back to the podcast.

SPEAKER_02 27:15

Like young adult books, being around school-aged children really helps on a general sense. I think I find it reasonably easy to write the kind of book that I think kids today are interested in. Whether or not agents and publishers agree is a different matter. I think that helps. I think with language it helps. I'm always in in touch with like, you know, language. Writing could even just be spelling, it can be grammar. But I think also understanding the kind of English words that young people today, A, understand and B, are familiar with. I think. Teaching English as well, we'll go into short stories and do like brief analyses of them. And I think again that helps and it kind of feeds back to me, and makes me think about, for example, narrative voice a bit more. I think if I didn't work in a school, yeah, maybe I would end up writing for adults or something. I just find it grounds me really well. One more thing that you mentioned, I think it was spot on, was this idea about, you know, when you read a children's book, it's not just for children. A really good, really well-written children's book can be and should be enjoyed by everybody.

unknown 28:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:31

You know, characters, themes, language, you know. I always thought it was a shame that J.K. Rowan, after finishing Harry Potter, she went on to write for adults. And I think in her mind, she felt like to be taken seriously, she needs to write adult fiction. But obviously, it's Harry Potter that's going to be remembered. But she could have, you know, written another children's series. She would have had other ideas at the time. But yeah, you know, I I totally agree with that completely. Right, you might have answered this, at least I asked you the question anyway. Do you plan your books beforehand or do you make them up as you go along? Do you have like an outline, something like that?

SPEAKER_00 29:10

Oh, I'll just make them beforehand, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 29:13

Yeah. I mean, I write I write my ideas down, but most of my books, most of the ideas I won't write. Because I've got like 250, something like that. And then not all of those will be good, like maybe half of those, not good ideas, but that still leaves a decent chunk. Normally for me, I need to know the ending, uh-huh, and I need to know the beginning, so I can I know where to start and I know where I want to end up. And in between, and there's a big in between. I have to work out a lot.

SPEAKER_00 29:41

Yeah, yeah. I mean, there's n one one book of mine, it's called I Wanna Go to the Moon. So the the origin of that book starts from a piece of sketch that I drew. And when I look at that, I think, whoa, there could be something going on. What's uh what's before that scene, what's after that scene? So I will just add up. It's like it's like cooking. Like you you're boiling a pot of water and you start adding spice or maybe meat or anything. Should there be, I don't know, like other ingredients, like vegetables. So you start adding it, it's like doing an experiment and eventually it's a nice dish. And sometimes it's it's it could be the uh it could be frustrating. Like you could go into and dead end that the the ending is not ideal. So you just go back again and and do the whole like thinking again. But that's that book. I did it once, and I think it's it could be some way. But yeah, interesting.

SPEAKER_02 30:43

Yeah, I was gonna say, and just for author's sake, I think one of the hardest parts of writing a book is I think most authors probably have an idea where the book's gonna end up. But I think where do you start? That's I think that that can be hard. Where do you, if it's a movie, if the book's a movie, and you think about when you watch a movie on the the TV or on the cinema, you know, the movie starts at a certain place and your books are the same, but how do you know? What does the reader need to know? What does the reader want to know, which is really important? What will the reader find enjoyable? I think that that can be difficult, finding out where where do you start because and I've read books where you're like, these these few chapters just don't need them. You know, and the and the the book, the introduction really starts later. I was gonna ask you as well, I I talked about talk with about this with you last time. What are your thoughts on AI in terms of illustration, writing, publishing?

SPEAKER_00 31:39

Uh I can tell you about like, well, first of all, writing. I did use AI to help me write several times, but it's just it's just very stupid, to be honest. Like, I feel like he's trying to manipulate or simulate like some famous author's like style, I guess. But it's just not what I want. I think it's not advanced that far. So stick to my own writing so far. And again, me personally, I'm against like AI helping you, right? It just I don't know. It just feels strange. I I couldn't explain like further, but it just feels strange. I I don't want AI to help me write another story. And I I I spoke to you like last time. Like I used several times using AI to help me generate images, but again, that's stupid as well. Like when you generate an image, it's normally coming out as a like a lo-fi uh image. So the quality is definitely not nice, and you can't zoom in, you can't stretch it or to do anything. So there's not really a point of using AI to do such things. And and I guess sometimes, like my students, they lack of inspiration and they want extra help, so they would seek the help from AI. But I think being as an artist, it's part of your job to get inspired by loads of things. If you are lack of ideas, you could always go out and read more books or check the world around you instead of just, you know, sitting by side sitting next to your PC and just search online. I think it's kind of a waste of time.

SPEAKER_02 33:25

Yeah, take your point. It's a shortcut.

SPEAKER_00 33:27

Yeah, it is a shortcut, and it's not supposed to be there.

SPEAKER_02 33:30

Yeah. In for me, in terms of writing, I I think writers should as much as possible avoid it completely. I always liken it to like, you know, going to the gym. You know, at the end of the day, the more you write, the more you paint, the better you get at it. You don't get worse from writing more, you don't get worse from painting more.

SPEAKER_03 33:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:47

But say just imagine you went to the gym and you got someone else to lift weights for you. They're the ones that are getting the bigger muscles, you're not. You know, you wouldn't go to your friend to say, hey, yeah, I just bench pressed 100 kg when it was actually 20.

SPEAKER_00 34:02

Yeah, I guess I'm a bit conservative, but I I mean I have students the they're heavily relying on AI generations. And it's I don't know, it's just it's it's not right. Like, are you gonna put A as a second author?

SPEAKER_02 34:18

Well, that's a good question. Are you you can't do releasing I know in America with copyright, uh huh, if you did that, you can't actually copyright it. So anyone could steal your book for want of a better word and produce their own version of it. So if you made it, if you did a painting and just say for argument's sake, you put AI down as a second artist, somebody could take your work and pass it off as their own or or change it in some way, and there's nothing you could do. Nothing you could do whatsoever, to be honest. I think there's there's a big debate online about book covers. I'm open-minded, but I still think you my worry about book covers is that how do you trust, you know, someone you met online that they aren't using AI? You know, I think that that's a hard one. What I've used AI for is I've actually done it for this generation, and it's for podcast stuff. Just a very quick, I get someone's like face and I want to spread basic information, uh, title of the podcast, name of the author or poet or artist, when is it recording, and that's all I give to Chat GPT. And I'll be honest, when it comes out, it's first rate, better than Canva. But I get that for marketing. I'm quite amenable to marketing size because I'm not I don't have time to do, I'm not gonna pay an illustrator to do that because it's just not quick enough. And I pay every month about $30, $35 for podcast-related stuff. So I'm already shelling out, so paying an illustrator that would have to be reasonably permanent wouldn't be possible. But for the actual yeah, content creation, why would you do it? I don't I don't know why people do people would do it. I I still don't think it's very common. But I think people probably use it more than what they think with things like spell check, because AI is integrated in a lot of things now. Like so when people say they they never use AI, they do. They just don't consciously use AI.

SPEAKER_00 36:22

Yeah, I think that's a very uh debatable like topic. Because what when it comes to art, there are like two parts of it. The first one is commercial, the second one is fine arts. I mean, if you're focusing on commercials, of course you're seeking like efficiency. Of course you're gonna use AI because it's faster. It's way faster than not using it. But just if you're doing fine arts or like I I I do believe that a children's work is a part of fine arts. If you're doing like fine arts, I mean art is supposed to like efficiency is not art should be looking after. Can you just imagine like if you're doing Lost Supper and it's part AI generated, you think and would you still think that it is that great? But no, of course not. Yeah, I mean those artists it would s they would just stay up night, like I don't know, many nights. They would just stay up thinking about the composition, thinking about the light and shadows, and I think it hit it is all these efforts that make this painting such a piece of art.

SPEAKER_02 37:30

Yeah, I was just thinking as well. It's interesting, like, but like without it. Yeah. It just right, you I mean you get my point. Yeah, no, no, totally. Uh yeah, I was just thinking like Michelangelo. Michelangelo, basically he's working for food and drink. Uh-huh. You know, and most people these days do not do that. And it's and maybe that's what taints it a little bit. Just gonna move on now, just quickly, to like a quick fire round. I just I'm gonna ask you five questions, finary answers, and I'll choose one of them to go back and get a deeper discussion. So books or comics, Monet or Van Gogh? Van Gogh, definitely Van Gogh. Fame or anonymity? Not fame. So what you said? Not fame. Not fame. Okay. Noise or quiet? Uh the louder one. Okay. Countryside or city. Oh, that's a hot one.

SPEAKER_00 38:20

It really depends on my age, I guess. Right now, I'm I'll I'll I'll definitely choose louder place. Okay, why? I'm a people person. I like talking to people and I feel secured when people are surrounding me. But I guess maybe when I grow old I'll I'll just appreciate more time with myself, like more loneliness, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 38:41

Yeah, I mean, I'm saying I looked at the question, I'm like, actually, I'm city. Even I find countryside fair beautiful, love it. Peaceful, love it. But a city, there's an energy, a buzz that I find intoxicating and probably goes into my work as well, a lot more than say nature. I can sure in nature I can get an image and it will go into the work, but that buzz of the city, yeah, I find to be quite intoxicating. Right, I think we're out of time. Probably both have classes next. But it's been absolutely fantastic talking to you again. Likewise, yeah. Please keep me outdated with the buck and of course in the search for the agent.

SPEAKER_00 39:21

Well, definitely, definitely.

SPEAKER_02 39:22

Okay, bye-bye.

SPEAKER_03 39:23

See ya.