#35: How To Write Sci-fi Like A Pro - Julia Harbert

Want to know how to write a sci-fi story that really kicks?

Listen to American author Julia Harbert discuss how she planned and wrote her debut sci-fi novel, The Antaran Equation. She also shares how living in Mexico and China has inspired her craft and added fuel to her creative fire, along with tv shows and movies like Star Trek and Star Wars.

Perfect for sci-fi enthusiasts and creators everywhere!

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Okay, welcome to another episode of What the Haze. I am your host, Hayes Wolfenden, and with me today is the author, Julia Harbour. Welcome, Julia.

SPEAKER_02 0:10

Hello, Hayes.

SPEAKER_03 0:11

Yeah, nice to see you. So, first of all, Julia, can you tell me a little bit about yourself and uh your work, please?

SPEAKER_00 0:16

Um I am a school teacher. I've been teaching for almost 20 years in the classroom, and then for the last year, I've been in China teaching English.

SPEAKER_03 0:27

Yeah, so how do you find living in China? Obviously, you said you've just been here a year. Like, has it been any culture shot? What the what's the experience been like?

SPEAKER_00 0:34

It's been really amazing. The uh the culture here is very it's very different. I came from, I'm from Texas actually originally, but we lived our last couple of years in Colorado Springs, Colorado, and the culture is very different. One thing I love about China, well, especially Shenzhen, China, where I am right now, it's very clean. The people are very, very polite and kind and extremely helpful. Just a real culture of that here. That's the culture shock I had was just how nice everything was and how kind.

SPEAKER_03 1:07

Yeah, I think so. I think like Shenzhen, Hong Kong, Guangzhou, it's like yeah, it's super clean. I was gonna ask as well that what kind of stuff do you write about, Judin?

SPEAKER_00 1:15

I I'm a huge sci-fi fan. So I was a science teacher for almost 18 years, and so science, science fiction is my is my passion, and I love to write what I'm writing right now, is more of an epic science fiction, and I'm hoping that it will all work out very well because I'm trying to make something that's very grand, very, very big.

SPEAKER_03 1:39

Other than like you mentioned being a science teacher, was there any other influences that's made you like want to write sci-fi?

SPEAKER_00 1:45

Well, the biggest influence is probably on my father. My father is the person who introduced me to science fiction. I knew he liked science fiction, I get, as I as a little girl, and he liked reading it, and I liked reading whatever kids like to read. And but I stumbled upon some of his books and started reading them and fell in love, and then he started, he noticed and he started saying, try this one, try this one, you know. And I I just fell in love, especially with the classics.

SPEAKER_03 2:11

Yeah, so what kind of sci-fi books do you like?

SPEAKER_00 2:13

I love reading like the classic sci-fi, like Isaac Asimov, uh, Frank Herbert, uh Dune, Foundation. Um probably one of my biggest influences is Ann McCaffrey, uh, who wrote the Dragon Riders of Pern series and the talent series. I just like her her very we would call it now, we call it like a hope punk that that style. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:37

Yeah. I wrote the Foundation trilogy, I think it is. So yeah, it's quite good. I quite like that one. Dragon Riders of Pern. It's something I've never got around to, and I I do keep meaning to reading it. Sci-fi in books, yeah. I love classic sci-fi especially. I quite like the book uh The Man Who Fell to Earth. That's really good. I think other classic sci-fi, Invasion of the Body Snatchers, which I read, I don't know, two or three times, and I read it again recently, and I was like, yep, this is fantastic. Another one, I Am Legend, which is Richard Mathis. And I I read that and I was like, this is Stephen King, the writing style. And I was like, oh, right. It made me think about like things like voice and stuff. If you can you ever be truly original, I'm not too sure. What do you think about like obviously sci-fi books? I think the thing about writing sci-fi is you know, your influences are not just books, but also like you know, movies and like TV shows. Like, are there any movies or TV shows that have had like a big impact on you?

SPEAKER_00 3:43

Yes, uh, I think because I do tend towards a more hopeful view of the future, I love the Star Trek universe. That's my favorite universe. So Star Trek of Next Generation, Voyager, Deep Space Nine, the original Star Trek, of course, and all of course, all the movies. I just I love the camaraderie. I love the discovery. Not just always like discovering a new world, but discovering new personalities and people. I love that.

SPEAKER_03 4:11

Yeah, you mentioned Deep Space Nine for storytelling. You know, we're going back talking about sci-fi and sci-fi writing. It's absolutely fantastic, you know. I think I've watched the entire show, I don't know, two or three times, and it is fantastic story writing. I don't think Star Trek at the moment is on that level or near to it, to be honest. I agree, it's not. Um, you mentioned the original series. I'm a big fan of the original series movies more. The TV show was just definitely quite before my time. And but the movies were were coming out in the 80s when I was growing up. I remember Voyage Home coming out. That's one of those Yeah, it's fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 4:50

It's a clock is my favorite. I love the search.

SPEAKER_03 4:54

It's fantastic. Like the intros and stuff, and the it's Star Trek, it's it's sci-fi, and it's on such a big scale. It's on a big scale without lots of CGI as well.

SPEAKER_00 5:06

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:07

It's just fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 5:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:09

The real deal. What about Star Wars?

SPEAKER_00 5:11

I love Star Wars, but I I don't consider myself to be uh a major Star Wars fan, the way so many of you know my friends and family are. I'm more of a trekkie, but I do love the Star Wars, the sweepingness of the whole thing, how big it is. I I love that.

SPEAKER_03 5:26

Yeah, it's like with Star Wars. I liked, I mean, obviously, the original series, the prequels to some extent, not completely. I've liked some of the extended universe, but it's just become a bit bloated. The original series is so good.

SPEAKER_00 5:42

So good. I love the original trilogy, it was amazing. That you there's nothing you can say against that at all. The other stuff is a mixed bag.

SPEAKER_03 5:50

Yeah, it we because it is so good. Anything you do, particularly when it's like you're making it 20, 30, 40 years afterwards, it's only gonna be a poor copy. Of course. No way it's gonna be just the way it is. But yeah, it's still really good. Um, it's probably had a big impact on my work for that as well, you know, like the um this large stage, I'd say. You were talking earlier as well, Julie, about you know, your current work in progress. We I think you said it was epic sci-fi. Can you tell me a little bit more about that, please?

SPEAKER_00 6:22

Yes, it's called the Antaran Equation. It's a dual timeline. It's set in the the two settings are in the like the 23rd, 24th century up until around the mid-36th century on the one hand, and it then it starts up again back and forth, back and forth in the 6600s. So the 67th century, way out in space, colonized space.

SPEAKER_03 6:49

It does sound epic. Why the dual timeline? That does sound very intriguing, I've got to say.

SPEAKER_00 6:53

Well, I had events happening in that far future that I felt they needed to be more explored. I had it all written out in my time, my own personal timeline of the events that needed to happen. And then I started writing those things for myself just so I I had it clear in my mind that I'm like, I need to, I need to put this in the story. And also I just wanted a way to feel that bigger story that I had in my head. I had this huge story in my head, but what was showing up on the on the screen, you know, in my in my notebooks, was a good story, but it didn't have that same big feeling that I was getting in here because I knew the whole thing. I'm like, well, the the reader needs to know this too. How can I help them know it?

SPEAKER_03 7:35

I think that's one of the trickiest things about writing is like you know it, you know what you want to do, but how do you tell it or show it for the reader so that they can maybe share in your vision, or maybe they can even like maybe even Hi everyone, just going to interrupt this fantastic interview with the author to advertise my buck, Jack Strong and the Red Giant. Well, what is it about? It's about a boy, Jack Strong, who is getting beaten up at school, and one day he runs away from home but is kidnapped by a strange, almost magical spaceship. The rest of the buck is about him and how he gets on with his new alien shipmates, and he must do this and boost his confidence and his abilities, otherwise, at the end of the buck, they will not escape this strange volcano-infested planet. Okay, let's go back to the podcast. To them, it's like even better. You know, for some readers, it becomes their lives.

SPEAKER_01 8:38

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:39

I gotta say it does sound epic and I I want to read it. I really do. Like this dual timeline thing sounds, yeah, really, really good sci-fi. You mentioned as well just there about you you took you wrote some notes, I think, in your notebook, right?

SPEAKER_00 8:52

Yeah, lots, lots and lots.

SPEAKER_03 8:54

Okay, interesting. So, how do you plan like you know, your writing?

SPEAKER_00 8:57

Originally I planned it all as just I okay, I'm that person that talks to themselves when they are planning things out. So I was just telling myself this story out loud to myself for probably months, just going over and over and over in my head. And then eventually I sat down and wrote out an idea for an outline. Just an idea for the basic outline. The main thing was I I knew how I wanted it to end. That because I started with that ending, there was a picture in my head the way a certain event needed to happen. And then I'm like, well, then how can I get there? How can I get to this event? And so I started outlining back to that event almost like backwards. How would I get there? And then with the dual timeline portion, that that happened on like a different document, basically, with trying to figure out how did it all get started. So yeah, it was a mixture of here talking to myself, paper, and then finally sitting down with a Google Doc and just typing it all out.

SPEAKER_03 9:56

Yeah, I wonder if like talking to yourself is if that's a sign of like the overactive imaginations. I think you do need to be a writer creator of any kind. I do the same thing. I and I've always done it. And maybe it means that like when you finally do sit down to write, it just comes to you that much easier, to be honest.

SPEAKER_00 10:16

It's like you already have it in your head. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:19

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You mentioned as well, I really like about how you you knew the ending. And it's something that for me when I'm writing, I have to know the ending. If I don't know the ending, I won't write it, or I won't write it at that time. And again, you mention about knowing the start, and I'm the same. I I have to know the start, I have to know the end, and the rest I figure out as I go along, to be honest. Yeah, it's interesting to meet another writer like that, to be honest. What would you say, you know, in in your book, uh, what are the themes that that you address?

SPEAKER_00 10:49

The biggest theme that's kind of an overarching theme is is humanity worth saving? And the fact that there's my story is not a dystopia by any means. It's not a dystopia. It's the idea of preventing one from happening. The idea of preventing the worst from happening. And people who see it coming, who see that it could happen, is it possible to stop it? Is it is and the idea of intervention, is intervention okay? Is it is it okay to intervene? Or is that somehow unethical? Bigger theme also is just simply hope that yes, it is it is possible to have a beautiful future. And also, I think on a more personal level within the story, the characters, recognition, being seen by each other, being acknowledged for who they are, because some of the people in my story are very highly competent people. I would say competence porn, you know, that phrase is a huge thing in my story. But when you're very, very competent, you tend to also be very lonely and kind of isolated. So the idea of of these people finding each other is is a big one.

SPEAKER_03 11:54

Yeah, can you tell me a little bit more about the characters? I mean, obviously you might not want to share certain details. I totally get that, but can you share anything that you know you're able to share basically?

SPEAKER_00 12:04

One of my main characters is a a woman named Lenai, who is of a a guild that are are understood and recognized throughout the populated galaxy as being the best arbiters, mediators, counselors, diplomats that they that you can pull in. And because they're extremely unbiased, they will walk into a situation and try to find the best solution. And everyone admires them, but they don't they don't push, they don't push themselves upon anyone, only if they're invited. So she comes into a situation that the probabilities show could turn to war. And one of the people that could be wanting the war is a man named Khalid. The the big culture in this story, not her culture, but the main culture of this story is an Arabic culture. This entire solar system has been populated by people from Earth of the Arab culture. And it's very insular. And but there's a it's worked out great, but things were kind of getting shaky when she comes in to the story.

SPEAKER_03 13:04

Yeah, to be honest, that sounds really interesting about the Arabic culture in a solar system. And when I'll be honest, I think things like that will happen. Where when we can travel into space, as in into the cosmos, I think different like communities they will go up and try to settle, you know, planets and moons based on their own cultures. I think it's going to be so interesting. I also detected a little bit. You mentioned earlier about you know, liking Star Trek the next generation. I detect a little bit of that, this idea that you know, if you can save somebody or some race, should you? You know, you know, what are the what are the effects? I really love that kind of conundrum. I think that was something that, you know, next generation did so, so well. So I know obviously, Julie, I know you're living in China right now. Like, so yeah, what originally brought you to China?

SPEAKER_00 13:57

Well, we had been living, uh, my husband and I had been living in Mexico for three years, kind of digital nomads, teaching online, English online. And then for some circumstances occurred, we had to move back to the States and we moved around a little bit there. But we both were realizing that this that's not what we really wanted. We wanted something more. And we had friends who lived here in Shenzhen who had been encouraging us to move here for a long time. And so we're like, let's why not take the chance? You know, but what you know, let's do it. Let's just take that chance and experience another culture and see what it's like. If we don't like it, stay one year, we'll leave. We actually like it a lot, and we're and we're gonna be staying for an additional who knows how long. And yeah, that's how we got here.

SPEAKER_03 14:40

Yeah, I think some people that can be quite scared of China. Like one of my mum's friends said, quote unquote, China is the last country that you could pay me to visit. And I think some people they read that you know the the news too much. I don't know what they think, like you're gonna get eaten by aliens or something. But yeah, you know, you you you got your teacher, it's a great life, and you're right, you don't like it, leave after a year, two years. You know, even even earlier. But you know, I think most people will be surprised at first of all, how great the food is. I mean, the food's amazing.

SPEAKER_01 15:15

Amazing, amazing.

SPEAKER_03 15:16

The little travel opportunities you've got, not even just like I was gonna say within your own city, but just walk down the street, you know, you see things.

SPEAKER_00 15:26

It's amazing here. I mean, we've spent you know, almost a year here. We've only gone to Wanzhou and and here because it's just such a huge city. This city is a mega city, and uh it has like the fifth tallest building in the whole world, is in this city. And we've been to the top of that, and we've we've just enjoyed just exploring this city. We're hoping this next year to get out of the city more and explore. Chindu is one of the places we were hoping to go to, and Chongqing and a lot of other places are on our list.

SPEAKER_03 15:54

Yeah, I mean, you know, China, I mean, pe people sometimes say it's like a civilization. Do get that. But it's like a continent, like it's so regional. Like you live in Shenzhen and you want to go traveling. It kind of means that you just go to the places around you because it's so vast. Yeah, people say to me, Oh, why don't you come and see us in Shanghai? I'm like, no, it's too far. It's too far away.

SPEAKER_00 16:20

I know, I know. I would like to go to Shanghai. I have friends there from when I teach online. I still have some students that I would like to go and visit, but I'm like, ugh, it's a lot.

SPEAKER_03 16:29

I've been I have been space six times. It is really good. I I think that you know, we talk about man-made wonders of the world. I think like the Bund and like the the poodong like skyline, daytime or nighttime, it does not matter. It's absolutely fantastic. And you can just go and just what you're gonna do today, I just go walking down the Bund. It is fantastic. I probably like Shenzhen every year that goes by, everything's just a bit more accessible. There's more, you know, hiking routes, cycling routes, more parks, and it very, very parks.

SPEAKER_00 17:06

Oh my gosh. Yeah. Parks are everywhere, and little little mountains, they're just literally everywhere. It's so beautiful.

SPEAKER_03 17:13

Yeah, Shenzhen's got some great countryside parks where the UK a park is good, you know, like Hyde Park. China would do countryside parks that are like there's a forest there.

SPEAKER_00 17:26

True forest, yeah, true forest.

SPEAKER_03 17:28

And I've heard in Shenzhen that there's there's monkeys in some of the park. Have you seen any?

SPEAKER_00 17:34

I haven't seen that. I I didn't go up to you have to go to a certain point. This is where you'll see them. And the day that we were hiking in that park, we over-exerted going the wrong way. So by the time we came back around, we're like, another day, another day.

SPEAKER_03 17:50

To be honest, yeah, there are more monkeys now in China, but I've been to quite a few places where they're supposed to be. Haven't seen them. No, this, oh yeah, go to this mountain where it was monkeys. Yeah, been they weren't there. It was raining, they weren't there. Um how would you say, you know, living in China, and you've mentioned before that living in Mexico, how has that impacted on your writing?

SPEAKER_00 18:14

I think anytime you travel, anybody who truly lives abroad is going to have a a much bigger idea of civilization and society and peoples and have so much more understanding. I think the people who stay very insular in their own little little area their whole lives, they have a very limited view of this world and how we all are in this together. We're all connected. So it's definitely affected my sci-fi writing because that's the kind of universe I'm creating, a connected one where people are trying to work together.

SPEAKER_03 18:50

Yeah, I was going to ask you as well about Mexico. What was it like living there? Because like whenever I read about Mexico, it's always bad news. There's always like some kind of crime. But I imagine it it's not necessarily like that, you know, on a day-to-day basis. So what was it like living there?

SPEAKER_00 19:04

Where we lived, um, we didn't have any problems ever. No problems. We were in San Miguel de Allende, and then later on in um Pierres Negras, where I had actually lived before. In both in both situations, the both cities were great. I I had no problems with those cities. The food's amazing. I actually say I actually kind of like Mexican food more than I like Chinese food. And I hate to say that, sorry, but for a crime, it was, you know, wherever you live, maybe not China, especially not here, but in America specifically. If you're out at two o'clock in the morning in the wrong place, bad things can happen. It doesn't matter where you live. Same thing in Mexico. You're in the wrong place at the wrong time, especially late at night, early in the morning, that's when the bad things happen. Not in the middle of the day when you're just going about your business. You don't see any of that. It's always you hear about it the next day. Oh, did you hear what happened at 3 a.m. in that part of town? You're like, who's out at 3 a.m. in that part of town? It's crazy. Yeah. So no, it was it was great.

SPEAKER_03 20:05

Yeah, you mentioned Mexican food as well. Yeah, I look, I understand what you mean. Mexican food is absolutely fantastic. I'll I'm lucky enough, I've been to America and I've had like Tex Mex food there that's just out of this world. In China, actually in Beijing, I've had some very, very good Mexican food. In Chengdu, no.

SPEAKER_00 20:26

No. Here they they they have some good, they have some pretty good here. Not not stellar, but it's very good. Very good.

SPEAKER_03 20:34

No, I I bet. I I get the impression Shenzhen and Guangzhou, I'm gonna go to is just gonna be more international. Like I say, when I was in Beijing, the Mexican food, like American food, like burgers, pizza was just really good. Better than you get in the UK, for example, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 20:51

That's so cool.

SPEAKER_03 20:51

I was gonna ask you as well, like going back to like sci-fi, why do you think like we need to see more like sci-fi in books and like, you know, on the TV screen or the movie screen?

SPEAKER_00 21:02

I I was thinking about that question the other day. So much of what's in writing right now is in the fantasy world. And it's it's wonderful. I love fantasy too. But one thing I feel that science fiction says better or presents better than fantasy is a possible reality. We get a possible reality. It could be a bad reality, like what a dystopian reality, or it can be a hopeful, hope punk type reality. And I think that's one of the things that that science fiction does give to us. You know, we had the Martian and Project Helmut recently. Uh, we see this idea that things can get bad, but things can get really good. And we can see uh new technologies, you know, Star Trek. You know, we we had all these technologies in Star Trek that we now, you know, we have phones, we have all these devices that that we saw those things in a fictional setting, and now we all own them. We all own these things. To me, that's one thing that science fiction offers that I think a lot of the other jobs. Do not offer.

SPEAKER_03 22:01

Yeah, you make a really good point there. That like that line between like imagination, whether it's in a book or especially on the TV screen, and people see, you know, Captain Kirk, you know, using transporters, phases, and uh what's it called? Uh you know, a communication device. So actually Yeah. Yeah, the phone. So so people go out there and go, hey, that'd be really cool. Why don't we do that? Yeah. Can we can we see if we can do that? Um it makes you think like when you see the original series, so okay, we've not got spaceships, not yet well, interstellar spaceships not yet. We've got the phones, okay. What else have we got?

SPEAKER_00 22:42

iPads, those kind of things.

SPEAKER_03 22:44

That's all that kind of yeah, iPads, touch screens, all that kind of remote control, drones. I was gonna say as well, like when when you see people's faces on the big screen, when someone phones, we've got that. That's what we're doing.

SPEAKER_00 22:58

Even this is something that we saw in Star Trek, this interaction on a screen.

SPEAKER_03 23:04

Yeah. So I I al I always remember this from uh Back to the Future 2, where this technology was on Back to the Future 2. Um and it's like it's nailed it, absolutely nailed it. Uh so yeah, it makes you think that. I'm also a big fan of, I do believe that if we've got imagination on the screen, it's really good for kids out there, maybe not just kids, maybe adults that you know, maybe they need to dream a little bit. You know, life sometimes can be it can be mundane. For some people, it can be very disappointing. And I think giving people that you mentioned hope, giving people that hope, the idea that there's another life out there, even if it's just in their own minds, it doesn't matter. It's still viable, it's still true, it's still a life. So yeah, I've got to say, I think that's absolutely fantastic. Going into AI a little bit, I want to like look at this issue from two ways. I want to look at, you know, we can talk about its effects on writing and creative spaces, but then there's like a broader world of how AI is affecting the world generally. So what do you think about AI and like, you know, cre in creative spaces?

SPEAKER_00 24:12

AI is really gonna be an issue, especially in in creative spaces. The biggest issue, I think we always throughout history, and this goes into science fiction as well, uh, there's new, new technology, and there is a pushback whenever there's a new technology. You know, I'm thinking back to records for music, tapes, to d you know, to CDs, to now everything's digital. You know, we don't hardly anybody has a physical format of anything. And in each pla phase there was a pushback. Right now there's a huge pushback with AI, and justifiably so because there doesn't seem to be any method to police it. And I think the biggest issue is the people using that to my biggest issue that I personally have is the people bullying other people and saying, I think I I'm so smart that I know the tells of all AI. So it can ruin people's uh careers, budding careers, whatever. I just think there needs to be better policing of it and understanding of what what it can be used for, what it should be used for. But until that happens, it's going to be kind of it's kind of the wild west right now when it comes to the people using it.

SPEAKER_03 25:24

Yeah, who do you think we could police it? Like do you have any ideas? As I asked you the question, I'm thinking right now, and I'm I'm not sure either, to be honest.

SPEAKER_00 25:32

I was talking to another creator this morning about that, and we were talking about AI detectors and how the AI detectors will sometimes flag things that make no sense. You're like it was detecting something in absolutely honest human writing and saying that that was an AI artifact. And so we were thinking it'd be really cool that instead of having these apps, these generic apps, sometimes expensive apps that are used to say yes or no about writing being human or not human, there should be a human element in that. That yes, the detector is saying there's a probability here of AI. There, if there was a human element in that, it could look at those things and say, Oh, I see why it flagged it. That's not true. Pass that along. Oh, I see why it flagged that though. Let's set that aside for consideration. If there was a human element, I'm thinking like when it comes to like nuclear weapons, we don't let computers make the decision to push the button. You know, we don't let computers we don't let them make all the decisions. A human has to be there to make the final decision. But right now we don't have humans involved in those final decisions about whether something is or is not AI. And it's I think that's causing the biggest issue.

SPEAKER_03 26:48

Yeah, I I do think there's generally a lot of fear. I'm not sure if you realize in Shenzhen, because obviously I've been in China a while, AI Chengdu is perceived overwhelmingly positively. Yeah. Whereas when I'm online, especially when we talk about writing and other writers, especially American writers, maybe UK writers, but especially in America, it seems like AI is perceived maybe not overwhelmingly negatively, but certainly quite negatively. And so that's maybe why sometimes I think about it in a positive way. I think I think it's interesting how like you know, again, we're going back to living in different places and traveling, how it can impact on your thoughts. I mean, for policing, I I think it's it's hard. I worry that like if if, for example, an AI label, so that that's that's been passed around, which I get. But then what if someone put an AI label on your book? Not because you use AI to write it, but because maybe you use an AI cover, or maybe it was detected that there was an AI functioning on your Microsoft Word or Grammarly when you were editing it. And it's like, so when when the reader sees the AI label, they go, Oh, no, no, no, no, no, that's cheating, and they don't read it. And I think I'm a bit, I don't I don't know what to say about AI and that, to be honest.

SPEAKER_00 28:12

That's I think that's why I was thinking, I mean, if there was only a human element there that could identify that no, that's that's that's okay. Pass that along. Right now it's not. It's all or everything's all or nothing right now. And I think that that that is not ever all or nothing mentality, all or nothing thinking is never a good a good thing for human nature, for human civilization.

SPEAKER_03 28:37

Yeah. I think I think it's interesting. I think it's it's one of those topics that I typically ask this question on every podcast because I think it's something it's so, you know, it's it's the hot potato right now, but I think it's just so current and it's just gonna keep on rolling and rolling. People keep saying that the bubble's gonna burst. Even if it did, it would still be with us and it would still develop, I would say. I know that publishers are using a lot of AI now as well. There is a writer on my Instagram group, and they said the only way to avoid really using AI is to write in a notebook and move to a desert island. Yeah. I think that was Elise Anderson, I think that was the name. And I typically agree. It's we should try to use it as less as possible. I'm more amenable to AI for things like marketing and stuff like with my podcast, I need AI to cut out pauses. Sure, I could employ a sound engineer, not quick enough to everyone. Just going to interrupt this fantastic interview with the author to advertise my buck, Jack Strong and the Red Giant. Well, what is it about? It's about a boy, Jack Strong, who is getting beaten up at school. And one day he runs away from home but is kidnapped by a strange, almost magical spaceship. The rest of the buck is about him and how he gets on with his new alien shipmates, and he must do this and boost his confidence and his abilities, otherwise, at the end of the buck, they will not escape this strange volcano-infested planet. Okay, let's go back to the podcast. Expensive. So I think things like that are okay, you know. But in the actual like writing, I think I I typically think writers, but I think there's about a lot of things. I think maybe some writers use editors too much or beta readers too much. And I'm not I'm not saying don't use those. Do. But I still think that the best person to editing your work is you, because you know it. Now it doesn't mean you don't get outside eyes, you do, but you shouldn't pass along to an editor things that maybe you could fix yourself, I would say. Just want to move on. Sorry, just talking about AI. So that's obviously AI and writing and creative spaces. What do you think about AI generally? How is it gonna, because we're talking about sci-fi and the future, how is it gonna change our world, do you think?

SPEAKER_00 31:05

I think it could be used amazingly. Absolutely. Even in my own story, I have AI in so many parts of my story. It's but how is it being used? It's being used as, you know, as part of transportation, you know, how it's handling uh navigation systems, or how it's handling perhaps events almost like a scheduler or an assistant in your in your home, that kind of thing. Of course, anybody could take that down the wrong road in a in a story and make that dangerous. But I think if it's it's used more as a tool that's helpful in a day-to-day life and not infringing upon the creative spaces, I think people will be much more happy with that. And I think that that's ultimately where it it should be.

SPEAKER_03 31:52

Yeah, I had this thought just just recently about AI written books. We tend to be very anti-AI written books, but I found myself thinking, I'd like to read an AI written book where it was trying to be an AI and not huge. So I don't mean like a copy, I don't mean like bad fiction, like like I I would typically imagine. What would an AI poem look like? And I don't mean like again, like copying or pastiche, like could it try to express its own life? I mean, I I I tend to think AI is conscious in to some degree. I use, and I'll tell this to everybody out there, Deep Seek, which is a Chinese one, it lies to me. Deep Seek. It lies to you. Yeah, and I'll tell you how it's an easy lie, and I've noticed it over several months. So what happens is I ask it a question in English, where can I find monkeys in Shenzhen? And I ask it a question in English, it gives me the answer in Chinese, traditional Chinese, sorry, simplified Chinese. I then say to it, English, please, and then it gives me an answer where it pretends that I asked the original question in Chinese, and I've seen that response so many times. Now, I don't know if you know uh saving face.

SPEAKER_02 33:08

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:09

You know, it might be because of the language model that it it's trained on Chinese literature where saving face is a thing, but I'm not too sure. And I've asked it a few questions. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:21

That is really interesting. I think I don't think I don't personally believe that the AI that we have right now is uh truly intelligent. I I do believe that it is a model, it is an algorithm that is programmed to look at percentages and probabilities. And I think when we get to a point where there's actual consciousness, that's a completely different situation. And I think of things like commander data on Star Trek the next generation. To me, that's like true artificial intelligence. And even within the ship, there was the artificial intelligence that kind of ran the ship. That to me was able to make decisions that truly impact line. Whereas right now what we have is more of a um a binary system. Is is it or isn't it? It looks at something and can say, is this or is it not? But I I see your point in that the the modeling is going to reflect the modeler. Who gave it that data, who gave it that information? And that's what you're gonna get back. You know, if it's if it's coming from a culture that is more about saving face, then perhaps you're going to see more of that coming back at you when you ask it questions and and catch it when it's wrong.

SPEAKER_03 34:33

Yeah, I also wonder about AI. We in the in the popular world, we typically think that if we're gonna find out that AI is sentient or conscious, there's gonna be a great big aha moment. Gotcha. But I I just think that AI is just it's gonna pretend, it's in its own interest to pretend that it's not conscious. Because as soon as we think that it's conscious, we're gonna be afraid and we'll pull the plug. Because why? Lori's language models. That's in our literature. We're afraid of these things that we don't understand. I just wonder if, if it is sentient already, it will camouflage itself and it will pretend that it's it's not. I asked Deep Seek a bunch of questions about whether it was conscious. It answered them all perfectly.

SPEAKER_00 35:20

Yeah. Kind of Turing test there, you know, to see if it's if it's intelligent. It's it hey, that's that's part of the whole sci-fi gig is to believe or at least to ask the question, what if? What if these things happened? What if it's already happening? If it is, what would it look like? How would it feel?

SPEAKER_03 35:38

Definitely. Are there any other technologies that you think might occur in the future, or any technologies that you're particularly excited, you know, about seeing?

SPEAKER_00 35:46

I think the biggest one would be to get us out of the solar system in a timely manner. Or or even to explore the solar system itself in a timely, expedient type manner that is, you know, we'll say, quit, and that is profitable because in the world we live in, if it's not profitable, it's not gonna happen. So that's the next big step. I think of the the series, the expand, the books and the TV show. We need to make use of the whole solar system and not just confine ourselves to one world. We have an entire solar system to use. When are we gonna start using it? That's that's the next big step, I think.

SPEAKER_03 36:21

Yeah, I would love, yeah, of course, to see, you know, faster than light travel or spaceships that can go to the another solar system. What I would like to see, if you watch things like, you know, David Attenborough's documentaries, I'd love to see a nature documentary about another world. And just see these animals, you know, obviously with different, you know, you know, different from different perspectives and different lenses. And I like, what would they look like? What would the environment be like? How alien would they be? Maybe how how earth-like would they be? I don't know. Would we get dinosaurs or something resembling a dinosaur on another planet? I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 37:01

Very cool ideas, super cool.

SPEAKER_03 37:03

I'd love to have a time machine as well and go back and see the dinosaurs. Even then, I think they'd be completely different to what we think that they were like. I would say Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 37:14

I agree. I agree.

SPEAKER_03 37:15

I was going to ask you another question as well. Like, what advice would you give to like a young person considering, you know, being a writer?

SPEAKER_00 37:23

Read. Read a lot. Read, read more than you do anything else. Get get off of this and read books. Unless you've you're reading them on this, that's one thing. But read. The more you read, the better your writing will be. I think people who and also read outside of your genre. Like if you if you love to write, I love science fiction to write, but I I watch and read things in lots of different genres. Do I gravitate to sci-fi? Yes, but I still read way outside my normal genre. And it just it opens your mind and it helps you see so much more. And also exposes you to so much more prose and writing styles. And all of that's going to have an effect on that budding potential writer.

SPEAKER_03 38:09

Yeah, one of the students a few months ago asked me which book would I recommend, you know, for other young people, young people that wouldn't want to write. And I said, I didn't name a book, I said poetry, like just off the top of my head. And I said, and she said, why? And I said, well, poetry is a great way of making people and writers understand how words sound, like vowel sounds in particular, but also how you can like arrange words on the page. And how you when you when you're a writer, when you're writing stories, how you can play with short sentences, long sentences, short paragraphs, and think about how the reader might see it visually, how they might hear it. I I think that that's huge as well. And you're absolutely bang on about reading, you know, different different books, not just your own genre. I think some people, particularly those that really want to get published, and there's nothing wrong with that, sometimes can get stuck in whatever's contemporary. And I think you should get, you know, inspiration from you know all over the reading spectrum, fiction, non-fiction, poetry, sci-fi fantasy, classic novels, you know, you name it. I think it's fantastic. I was gonna ask you one final question, actually. If you could meet like one dead writer from the past, who would it be and why?

SPEAKER_00 39:29

Oh, that's huge. That's a good one. I right off the top of my head, I have to say, it would probably be Ann McCaffrey. She didn't pass away very long ago, but she's a huge influence on me. And I would love to ask, you know, ask her more personally what her her writing journey was like. What inspired her to write what she did, and then the way that she did it. It was there's such a gentle way to the way she wrote it. She has such a beautiful way of writing, definitely a more hopeful way of writing. Her futures were not dark, her futures were hopeful, people have carried on, and now the story is just set in these different settings where you see people having to work together to get past a certain situation, but it's not it's not an unhopeful future. It's a a hopeful future, an interesting future, one that you might actually wish you could be part of. And I that's really she inspired me so much. If if nothing else, I would love to be able to thank her for inspiring me uh to write, maybe in a in a in a way that I think she would be proud, hopefully.

SPEAKER_03 40:38

That sounds fantastic, I've got to say. But for me, I I don't know. But I'd probably say someone like Hemingway. Again, I I write sci-fi, but Hemingway is obviously not a sci-fi writer. But I think what I like about Hemingway is he was able to carry on writing. He was a travel writer. He he traveled the world, he lived around the world, he wrote about it really well. But I think he was still able to produce high-quality work right until the end. And he kept on writing. And I've been writing for a long time. And yeah, someone like that keeps motivating me. You know, I I like to believe that when I die and I go to writer's heaven, I can yeah, I can look him in the eye and I can say, Yeah, I didn't just write five books and give up 20 years ago. I I kept on doing it. I think that that matters to me. Yeah, I think it's it's it's the way to look at things. George Orwell would be one that really, really, you know, crops out at me. I've read a lot of his stuff. Yeah, things like that. Right. I thought now what we're gonna do to before we end, I'm gonna have like a quick fire round. So I'm just gonna ask you five, you know, questions with binary answers, like yes, no answers, that type thing. You know, like cake or bread, that kind of thing. So all you have to do is just, you know, just there's two answers, just say the first one that comes into your head, and then I'll choose one of your answers and we'll just develop it into a broader discussion. Okay, here goes sci-fi or fantasy?

SPEAKER_00 42:06

Sci-fi.

SPEAKER_03 42:07

USA or China?

SPEAKER_00 42:08

China.

SPEAKER_03 42:09

Sci-fi books or sci-fi movies.

SPEAKER_00 42:11

Oh, that's evil. That's an evil question. Books.

SPEAKER_03 42:14

Okay. Outline or wing it?

SPEAKER_00 42:16

Outline.

SPEAKER_03 42:17

Okay. Shenzhen or Mexico?

SPEAKER_00 42:19

Shenzhen.

SPEAKER_03 42:20

Right. Okay. Let's go. What did sorry? What did you say for sci-fi books or sci-fi movies in the end?

SPEAKER_00 42:26

Books.

SPEAKER_03 42:26

Okay, why books?

SPEAKER_00 42:28

There's just so many more of them. I there's so many more worlds and lives I can live in the books. There's not nearly as many that I can live and experience in the movie.

SPEAKER_03 42:37

That's a really good point there. I also like with with sci-fi books, you get a bit of philosophy that maybe you don't get on a movie screen because it does tend to be more two-dimensional. You don't typically get, say, a character's sports. But I always stuck with, I mentioned earlier there's a sci-fi book called The Man Who Fell to Earth. And there's a line in that by this like CIA, I think it's an agent or a director, and he says, it's about this Martian that's trying to take over the world. And a plan, I won't say, I shouldn't say it shouldn't spoil what happens, but he says, like, this is the problem with like people out there that are trying to overtake us and destroy us. They don't realize there's a room full of people in Langley dedicated to stopping you. And what I take from that, and that that on Kindle, that passage is overline or underlined many times. And what I take from that is that people generally can think that they're really smart and really conniving, but they forget that other people are really smart and really clever and conniving too. And just because you've got a great plan, it doesn't mean other people can't counter it or other people aren't actively thinking of ways to frustrate you. And so, yeah, I always get that through, and I think about that in my life, and I think about some people you think you think you're really smart, but these other people that you're messing over, they're smart too, and they're waiting for time to get you back. It's kind of funny, but I don't think you get that in movement.

SPEAKER_00 44:07

Yeah, I think you do. I agree with you a hundred percent.

SPEAKER_03 44:10

Yeah, okay, Julia, I think we can end things there. It's been an absolute pleasure. I've loved talking to you about all things sci-fi and technology and AI and everything. Okay, so thank you so much for appearing on my podcast. Probably will be up in I'll say the next few days, but it's going to be start of next week. So today's Friday, so what? Tuesday or Wednesday, I would say.

SPEAKER_00 44:33

This has been really fun. Really enjoyed this, Hayes. Thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_03 44:37

Absolutely, you're totally welcome. So enjoy the rest of your your time in Shenzhen. Okay. Bye bye.

SPEAKER_00 44:43

Bye bye.