Alternatives to Education

Join Nikita & Nina (3rd Decade's Arizona Serve VISTA Program & Operations Coordinator) as they discuss alternatives to a 4-year degree after high school. 

In this episode, they discuss:

• # of Americans affected by student loans
• Alternative paths into college (community college)
• Tech Schools
• Work alternatives
• AmeriCorps
• & more workplace readiness items

Transcript

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Nikita 0:00

Hey , third decade community. Welcome to the third Decade podcast. I'm your host, Nikita Wolff, and today I'm joined by Nina. She is our Arizona Serve Vista program and operations coordinator. We're taking today's time to discuss alternatives to college education . We know many of us grew up in homes where the expectation was that we go to college and there was a lot of pressure around that. And fast forward , we have a student debt crisis larger than probably many of us ever expected we would. So we're gonna be discussing alternative paths that maybe reduce the amount of debt you're in or give you a more thoughtful approach towards what you actually want to do so that you're not just falling into the default of going to college if that's not what's truly best for you. So Nina, I know you and I talked about some statistics for student loans at traditional four year colleges. Could you share what the average debt is? How many people have debt?

Nina 1:14

Sure. So before we go into the numbers, I want everyone to just kind of think about that number in their head . So if you had to guess how many people in America have student loans, what would you guess that number would be? Would it be 10 million, 30 million, a hundred million? 44.7 million of us have student loan. And the average student loan debt right now is hovering at about $37,000, which means your average payment is about $393 a month. And so when we think about that in realistic numbers, $37,000, that's what most of us make a year. You know, especially if you're doing a nonprofit position or if you're really early in your career, you have to basically work one year just to pay off your student loan debt. And if you think that maybe over the course of your life you're gonna work 40 years, you started at 20, you retire at 60 - 1/40th of that is basically just paying off your loans that let you have your job.

Nikita 2:15

I think that's why it's even more important to be looking at the nuance of like what path you want to take, because it is true. I remember I've talked about this in a previous episode, but I was considering getting a master's in social work, but at that info session where I sat down and asked numbers about like what will I pay if I spend the $40,000 on this master's program? And it was like a very minimal pay bump by like a couple thousand dollars a year. And I was like, okay, I can't financially justify that and make it make sense unless I was able to secure some sort of outside funding. So it's important that if if you're agreeing to $40,000 in debt, that you have a a clear path of how you're gonna be able to pay that back or if it's just worth it to you to work a fulfilling career, have a path for how you're gonna have incredibly low living expenses, maybe share a housing situation with family or friends, but some way to be able to pay that number down so it's not just hovering over you and crippling you financially for the next 10 plus years.

Nina 3:18

You're so right. And I think when you talk about that info session that you went to, what's really important for a lot of us, especially when we're looking at master's programs and for-profit colleges , um, colleges that might not be state colleges, but private colleges trying to remember that college is a business. And that's really hard for us to think about because we think about college as just sort of this almost government institution, just like public school in a way. We think of college as just an extension of that. But when you actually really think about it, college is a business and their goal is to get you in the door and try to get as much money as possible for each student. And one of the fun things that I think about when I was going over this podcast prep is for those of you that have completed the third decade program or looking into it, one of the tenants is the magnificent of the Magnificent seven is looking at minimizing your fees. How much are you losing in fees? And part of what was really important to look at is not just the tuition of college, but all the fees associated with it. So Right . It's a

Nikita 4:28

Huge hidden expense.

Nina 4:29

It's a huge hidden expense. I mean, there's technology fee, parking fees , security fee. And when you think about how much you're making right now or how much you will be making in your career, and you think about what school you need to go to, try to remember that colleges are businesses. They do have a bottom line, just like anything else.

Nikita 4:50

Yeah. And I think to to that point, it's important that because they're like businesses, it's almost like a competitive market to some extent. So you want to evaluate your options. You want to look at the credentials of a school, you wanna look at the cost of attending that school, the cost of maybe attending out-of-state tuition versus in-state tuition. So you wanna be thinking about these decisions as early as possible. You wanna be having conversations with your family, figuring out if support is available to pay for it. There are just so many questions to have. And I don't think that you can be asking these questions too early. Uh, really only too late.

Nina 5:24

Absolutely. And you really wanna think about attending college in a way of shopping for college. So what are your priorities when you're going to school? Is it value? Is it the name brand? Is it their football team? Is it location to your family? You really wanna be as honest as possible with your family and with yourself as you're making those decisions because all of those little factors end up making a really big difference , um, not just while you're in school, but then after when we're paying back our loans. So for me personally, I was accepted into the honors college at our state school and the honors college, because it's super competitive, offered me a very, very minimal scholarship. It was basically, I think like books and here's half of a half of a meal plan. And it was really excited because it was the honors college. It felt like a huge deal for me. And I, I went there for the first semester and I realized my family wasn't able to make up the difference. So I was gonna have to take out student loans if I wanted to continue at the honors school. And I knew that I wanted to work in the nonprofit sector. I knew that was important for me, and I knew that I didn't necessarily need the honors part of my college degree in order to get my foot in the door. So I made the decision to step back. I went to one of the satellite schools of our university, which is still a four year degree. And it was honestly for me, the best decision I ever made. Not only did I get a full scholarship, which meant I left debt free when a lot of my friends were a hundred thousand dollars plus in debt, but I was one of 15 in a class versus one in 200 . So when it came time for paper presentations and honors societies, I had these personal relationships with my professors that I wouldn't have gotten in the honors college because do you wanna be like the, the top of the triangle with everyone, or do you wanna at least, you know, be in a good little fish pond with other kinds of, of of people and it was the best experience and at the end of the day, yeah , I have my four year degree and I get to be with Nikita at work, <laugh> , she doesn't care that .

Nikita 7:37

Exactly . And it sounds like you had a, a more quality education too. I , I think about the classes that I've been one of 15 versus one of 200, it is vastly different in like what I can actually take away from that course too. So sounds like a win-win. That's awesome.

Nina 7:52

It does. So really thinking about what you wanna do post-college, because if you wanna be a doctor in Boston, then maybe you do go to Harvard, but if you wanna stay locally and you really wanna be a kindergarten teacher, maybe you don't need that Ivy League degree to do it. So Nikita, what are you thinking about like alternatives? If you can go back into a time machine and hop back, what, what do you think is the best alternative for people who may be hesitant to go to college right away?

Nikita 8:24

The first thing that comes to my mind is, and this is not gonna immediately answer your question, but I will get there, I promise. If you think you wanna go to college, but you're not sure what you wanna study, I I, unless you have a scholarship that's like, it's gonna go away. If you don't go to a state university, I really am a proponent for exploring what your interests are through a community college because it's a very small fraction of the price. And that way you can be testing things out and, you know, spending 400 bucks on a class rather than $2,000 on a class to learn that you don't like it, you can do some of that trial and error in a much less expensive environment with less inherent risk in doing that. Now if you are like, I don't know, the colleges for me period , um, one of the things that comes to mind for me is like a tech school alternative. Some of these are still hosted like through community colleges, but they're not like normal degrees. So Pima for instance, in , uh, Arizona has tons of degrees in certificates that you can pursue. So in i I , a few things I know you found Nina in your research was that in six and a half weeks you can be in a career for truck driving and it's actually a pretty well paying career. Um, on average truck drivers earn between 45,000 and $60,000 a year. And based on experience and safety companies like Walmart can pay upwards of 80,000 per year. So that sounds like a pretty nice time investment on the educational side. Um, and six and a half weeks is a very appealing number compared to four years

Nina 10:04

<laugh> . Absolutely. And I think when we talk about college, there's still a lot of shame that we hold there, almost like when we talk about money. So people feel that if you don't get that four year degree, somehow you're less than somehow you're not living up to your potential. Somehow your family has failed you or you've failed yourselves. And I think until you get past that emotional part of it, you're gonna hold onto a lot as you transition from, you know, young adulthood to adulthood. And I know a lot of people who are really hold a lot of shame that they dropped out of college or didn't finish college and they'll perpetually say, oh , I think I'm gonna go back. I really should go back. And meanwhile, these are people that are living in gorgeous houses with, you know, a lovely lifestyle and they're taking care of their family and they're investing in their community. But there's still this piece of them that almost feels like they are a failure because they don't have that four year degree. And just like we started with earlier, we have to remember the marketing piece that goes into college. And I'm not saying that if you wanna go to college, absolutely do it. Look at scholarships, look at price, just like we talked about earlier, but also try to remember that a lot of for-profit colleges are just like what they're saying, they're for-profit. And one of the things that used to really impact me a lot was there was a college that, I'm not gonna name its name because we don't wanna get sued, but let's just pretend if you're thinking about it, that the logo is like a bird, maybe a bird that's rising from the ashes. I don't know what you would call a bird that's rising from the ashes, but let's just think that that's what the school is called. They have been the subject of a lot of scrutiny because they were predatory in how they , um, pulled on people's heartstrings of don't you wanna provide for your, your family. You know, if you get this college degree, you can provide so much more for your family. Um, and it was really no different than when you're at a timeshare presentation. It's like, don't you wanna provide a happy like vacation for your family? So remembering that, especially at for-profit colleges, they are trying to get you in that door and in order to think about what's best for you, you have to put that, that shame piece of it , um, away. Um, one of the things that I think works really well for a lot of people is maybe taking a break between high school and college. Um, like Nikita said, why not spend a year interning, taking a job, saving money, thinking about maybe what you really like to do?

Nikita 12:36

Yeah, I think it's important to have some sort of direction in that though. Like, I I we say that, but also putting a little bit of caution around it. Cuz I, I know back when I was starting college, the friends of mine that didn't go to college, about 80% of them never did. Um, and so I think having a direction and like a plan that you, you are sort of using that year gap or that six month gap as like a stepping stone or like a , I don't know, like a recalibration to where you're gonna go. Um, really quick before we lose the point, I wanted to go back to what you were saying, Nina . I think it's an important distinction to make that state universities are not for-profit colleges, but for-profit colleges I have personal experience with loved ones in my life being taken advantage of in for-profit colleges, they are oftentimes more expensive. They're, they go in and out of business. Uh , the one that I'm thinking of in Tucson that I'll also not name was one that very much so made its marketing to like people who are artistic and very skilled in their trade and they ended up going out of business and like losing their certification. So like these degrees not only cost these students more money, but then they're walking away with a either maybe an incomplete degree because they, they didn't get to finish their four years or a degree whose credential is lost. Um, so you just want to exercise extra, extra caution on these. For-profit colleges, I feel like they can be really slimy. So keep your eyes kind of wide open in those situations. If you find one that feels right, has a good reputation, read the reviews, go out of your way to read the one-star reviews and really understand kind of the culture in these schools and the way that they're run administratively. That was my, that's

Nina 14:21

Skill . That's a really good point. No, that's fantastic. And I think you're right about that one year gap year is you need to make that a productive year. So if you choose to delay college for other financial reasons or because you're just not sure, like you said earlier, that's a really good time to just start enrolling in a technical school to take those basic prereqs, those math, those English courses that you're going to need. So you kind of stay in the habit of being in school, but it may give you a chance to play around with some careers that you're, you're, that you're interested in that you don't know enough about yet. I think a lot of people jumped right into college thinking they want to be a doctor. And I've had a couple friends that went through that and they did not realize that they could not handle blood because they didn't think about it. They just knew they wanted to be a doctor. And I had another friend who ended up becoming a doctor and in her gap year she did a six week , um, paramedic certification and she became a paramedic. And so she did that for a year because

Nikita 15:22

She found that she loved that more,

Nina 15:24

She loved that more and it gave her such good experience. So that when, when she went to college that next year, not only did she know so much about it, but being at a full-time sort of work setting gave her a level of professionalism that she brought to her college experience and she really went with it. So if you wanna be a lawyer, maybe think about taking a , a job as a paralegal in your gap year mm-hmm . <affirmative> if you choose to , to have a gap year so you can make a decision that fits you. And I almost wonder if there's a statistic out there, how many people are working in the field of their college degree.

Nikita 16:03

That's so true. I think a lot of people, a lot of employers don't even care what it necessarily is as long as you have something. Um, but at the same time, I also kind of wanna say, I think the culture is shifting a little bit. I think that's kinda why we're making this podcast is I'm seeing more and more employers that are seeing the merit and not forcing people to go through four year degrees that they don't care about and that take four years of their life from them. And work experience at this point really can go just as far

Nina 16:34

If you maybe just don't know what you wanna do, if you did not do great in high school. So financial scholarships are not available if you don't have family support that can just, you know, pay for you to go to school. The military is, is a really fantastic option. And one thing that's really nice about the military is even if you just do four years, so you do four years of service, not only do you get that leadership and development piece of it, but when you finish, you'll be roughly between 22 and 24 years old, you get what's considered , um, non-competitive for federal jobs. So federal jobs are really difficult to get. And if you start scrolling through USA jobs to look at them, they have all different kinds of preferences they have open to the public, which is a small part of it. But then they have one that's non-competitive for Veterans Peace Corps alumni, people who might have a disability and you get preference in applying for those positions. So not only great do you get the experience, yeah, but you can actually have a federal job which provides you with health insurance, mobility , um, good benefits, good benefits for four years. So in a way, if you wanna think about it, like you said earlier, time for time, four years in the military, four years at a four year degree. At the end of it, you're 22 years old, you're applying for jobs and you might have the same kind of pick as far as salary and pay grade military versus college.

Nikita 18:03

Right? Yeah. There are a lot of paths. I also think about like certain trades, I , I'm not sure exactly about like mechanics, but I don't, I don't think you have to hold a certificate to be a mechanic. I know in my other , uh, hobby slash job like photography was something that I considered studying in college because I did get a full ride. It made sense for me to go to a four year college, but I considered doing photography and instead I opted to not put my degree in that field because work experience got me just as far and into the same pay grade if I ever wanted to do that full-time in the future. So I think it's important to look also specific to the profession that you're interested in. Like does it even require a degree or just just getting experience at the age of 18 and kind of working your way up in a company get you just as far?

Nina 18:51

Absolutely. And there are so many , um, hidden professional paths that sometimes we don't talk about. Um , I know one of our popular restaurants has , um, a policy of hiring from within. So to become a manager you pretty much have to work as either a server or a cook , and then they have a full sort of leadership ladder and you go manager, general manager, regional manager, and the regional managers, which give you I think five or 10 restaurants pay about 115,000 a year. So <laugh> , oh my god , she's a friend that does that. I'm really jealous of her. Not only for the free food, but she's a regional manager. And what's crazy about that company is not only do they have the health insurance and benefits, their stock options are private. So you have to, to be a shareholder, you have to work at that company and it is a very profitable stock. So that's amazing thinking. Yeah. Thinking about like what you said, putting your nose to it, sticking with something almost like we talk about that ira, you know, kind of leave it in a way, build it, let it grow mm-hmm . <affirmative> , um, finding that balance in your life between what feels stagnating and where you can work in a company that will give you not only that professional growth but that financial growth. And kind of like what you, you were saying about , um, maybe having the college degree versus the work experience is really putting yourself out there professionally and giving yourself a good professional reputation.

Nikita 20:22

Yeah, absolutely. Introduce yourself to people. I know it can be really uncomfortable if you have social anxiety or some other barrier to doing that, but you, I I actually just recently heard this referenced in a book called The Defining Decade. The concept was referred to as like the strength of weak ties. And it's talking about just how far in life you can, can like go not through your strongest connections. Like you, you don't get professional opportunities by asking your best friend if their company is hiring. You get professional opportunities by asking people a little bit more disconnected from you if their companies are hiring and then they put in a good word for you. You don't know each other incredibly well. So there's not like the awkwardness of like, oh, I'm working for my Uncle <laugh> , but if you've got, you know, a friend's parent or you know, something like that, like it's those weak ties that actually get you into places and introduce to people and, and to harness the power of that.

Nina 21:21

That's incredible. And I, I think you're right, when you have all those different connections, you never know where they're going to lead you. And I think a big part of it is whether you choose college, whether you choose two , four year alternative schools, alternatives to college. I think the takeaway is really being confident in yourself, selling yourself as the person that deserves that position. And one of the, the best things I remember is having confidence in yourself and having confidence in your voice. So if you're a fireman and the house is on fire, you might be the very best fireman in the world. Like you could be fireman of the year and if you run into this house that's burning and go , um, Nikita, I think there's a fire. So you probably wanna get out. You'd be like, get outta my house. Like, I don't care if it's smoking . I don't think you know what you're talking about. Okay , maybe we should go and maybe I put the fire out cause I'm fantastic, but it was really weak about it. But if I came in and said , Nikita, there's a fire. Get out the front door now you would go out the front door because they said it confidently. Meanwhile, I might be a serial killer who just wanted you outta the house, <laugh> , but because they said it confidently, you got out. You have to confidently say, I am this person and I deserve to be in this job, in this college seat. Whatever it is you choose. And it's just like we talk about with money, it's moving past that shame of really difficult conversations and sort of taking ownership of your ability to want what you want and be confident in it .

Nikita 22:59

Yeah, I think that's really well said. So I kind of wanna pivot and take this opportunity, Nina, for you to be talking about your own alternative to, I I know you already have an education, so it's a little bit different in your context, but AmeriCorps as a program, I'd love if you shared kind of the benefit that AmeriCorps can bring to people who are developing themselves in a professional context.

Nina 23:22

So AmeriCorps is fantastic because you have several different options with it. You can do the college path or the non-college path. So if you don't have a college degree yet, they have just regular AmeriCorps, you do a year of service. It was started , um, during the Kennedy administration. And AmeriCorps is an offshoot of Peace Corps and it is really designed to help you, you give back to your community through service. Um , it's strengthening communities through service and they focus on a lot of diversity and inclusion. So you pick where you'd like to go and you pick your service. That could be anything from helping with food banks, helping with disasters, helping with financial literacy. And you complete this year of service where you're given a small stipend , um, to help make ends meet. But at the end of that year you have the option for an educational award, which is roughly about $6,000 that you can use towards college expenses. And you also have that ability to start applying for federal jobs. Um, you get that same sort of non-competitive preference.

Nikita 24:28

I didn't know that. That is really cool.

Nina 24:30

Oh yeah, it's fantastic. Um, you know, it's, it has, it has benefits, which is really nice. And if you are in between high school and college that year of AmeriCorps not only looks I think great on your resume as you're moving forward, but it gives you job skills, it gives you growth, it gives you the opportunity for college. If you have your degree already, you can go through um, AmeriCorps Vista, which is the program that I'm in and you get to maybe not do as much direct service but you build capacity. So I'm helping Nikita and the team with just growing capacity with around financial literacy and it's pretty similar. Um, the benefits are the same and you get to make an impact in your community. What I like about it is that it lets you pick a topic that you might know nothing about, jump into it mm-hmm . <affirmative> and be with a team of people that are incredibly supportive. So Nikita knows this, I know nothing about financial literacy, <laugh> <laugh> , I not a thing about it and I'm learning as I'm giving back. So if you are just sort of have your degree in social work and you're like, you know what, maybe I wanna work in the financial sector, this is a great way to get that year of knowledge without getting your mba .

Nikita 25:46

Yeah, that's so cool.

Nina 25:48

Yeah. I've learned so much from you. Like there's a difference between a Roth and a regular ira , um, that there are fees associated with it. What is an annuity? Um, so many different pieces that

Nikita 26:00

Each module you just send me a couple of questions. You're like, I'm sorry, what are you guys talking

Nina 26:05

About here ? Is this like, none of none of my life experiences have prepared me for anything that you've talked about in these four modules.

Nikita 26:14

Um , oh , I'm glad you're getting a fantastic double benefit.

Nina 26:16

I'm getting like a triple benefit. Like I've met fantastic people. I am no longer like a financial loser, I guess .

Nikita 26:25

Oh my goodness. You gotta be kinder to yourself in that.

Nina 26:28

No, I wasn't until I went through the first module. I'm like, good. This like, what did

Nikita 26:33

We do <laugh> ? We humbled

Nina 26:34

You . Huh ? Really humbled. I was like, look, I passed my credit card sometime . Like I got this .

Nikita 26:39

So

Nina 26:41

None of the other ideas we've

Nikita 26:42

Been been really happy to have you. So

Nina 26:45

It's been great. And so maybe looking at that alternative , um, AmeriCorps just to give yourself something, something to do. And with that, I think one of the key takeaways to think about as soon as you listen to this podcast, get on your phone if you're not driving and look at your social media and see what your social media presence is because I can say when you're looking for either college admittance or a job, they will check your social media.

Nikita 27:15

Absolutely. Yep .

Nina 27:17

Be professional. I think we all have seen stories in the news of people who have been kicked off of teams because they've posted ridiculous, ridiculous things . Um, be really mindful of that because just like we talked about with your reputation, your social media is your digital image and if you have a picture of you and your bikini, you know, it's spring break chugging a beer, I don't know if I really want you as a kindergarten teacher. Maybe that's wrong, but I think that's just how a lot of people still think. Um, one of the big takeaways is look at your settings to see if people can post on your Facebook wall or on Instagram without your permission because you don't want like maybe some crazy relative posting something that's really inappropriate on your wall. That exactly technic what I did associated with you. Yeah .

Nikita 28:06

Really? Oh yeah. I didn't think you can

Nina 28:08

Do that right away.

Nikita 28:11

I changed the setting so that I had to approve posts that somebody tried to put on my Facebook wall. I mean, now I don't have social media at all, so that makes it all the better. But when I did it , yeah, I, I don't like being out of control of what is on my like public facing profile. So yeah, like Nina said, clean it up if you're questioning if something is, is maybe , uh, not how you wanna portray yourselves professionally, just go the safe route and make it a friends only also, I might say here to, to be, to have some caution in who you allow to follow you and friend you on both social platforms. I , I know there's more than two PLA platforms, but the two that are owned by meta just I feel like I've had friends whose bosses are creating toxic work environments based on what they're seeing because they allowed them to friend them. So just have caution around that. You can also make it so that people can't look up your profile and things like that. But , uh, Nina, I know you also had talked to me about something, which I, I love that your work experience kind of put this on your radar cuz I had never thought of it expungement. Could you , uh, talk a little bit on that?

Nina 29:22

Yeah , so a lot of people don't know , especially if you were a minor and you did something really stupid, like you got caught with alcohol at a party or tobacco on the street and you were charged with it and maybe did a diversion program or went to court or paid a fine , you might have a criminal record. Um, juvenile records are ones that you can't see just like through a Google search, but employers can see them , um, through pretty intense security clearances. So I always used to tell people right away, like, as soon as you finish a diversion program, even, you know, go and get your record expunged if it's been while , go and just, you know, do a quick background check. If you kind of remember getting in trouble for shoplifting or something, you don't wanna be 40, 50 years old getting a fantastic promotion that requires this pretty heavy security clearance and it comes back and you either get denied that promotion or it's withheld for a while because you had something on your record. So just remembering that your life kind of builds one layer on top of another. And even if we've put part of it in our past, we just have to make sure we do a really good job sweeping it up, getting all those remnants out so you're able to move forward.

Nikita 30:33

And if you're still young and listening to this make good decisions, <laugh> , you don't wanna be punishing your your future self. So.

Nina 30:41

Absolutely. And so I just, I think the biggest takeaway for all of us is just, you know, thinking about college as as a career decision and thinking about it as a business decision. If you want a four year degree, go for it. If you wanna make a lot of money quickly, boy, if you have to hire a plumber and electrician you, you know that it's some , there's some money to be had in those fields. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So I think part of it is also thinking about your work life balance. Um, one of the interesting books that I read recently was about , um, the impact of parents not being in the home because they're working crazy hours and kids sort of not having proper attachment time to their family. So if you know that you want kids, if you want a lot of kids and you want to coach softball, maybe you're not gonna be financially as comfortable, but thinking about a career that's going to let you come home at 4 35 o'clock and not work until 10:00 PM three nights a week. So make decisions too based on the life that you want for yourself.

Nikita 31:48

Totally. So you had referenced , uh, plumbers and electricians and I think that actually is a really good segue to kind of another alternative to just a college education is you could apply for apprenticeships for an H V A C job, an electrician job, plumbing. I'm sure I'm missing more of them, but apprenticeships are a way of, of kind of learning the trade on the job and then typically there's like an apprenticeship rate, which is, it is a lower number when you first start off, but it's meant to lead you to a path that allows for a career in that trade.

Nina 32:26

I think you're so right about that because I think about when I used to love watching the Walking Dead and I don't think anybody cared about anyone's four year degrees. Like everybody wants to be with Darrell . Like there he was with no college degree. Um, but you were fed and you were mostly safe. Um, you know, looking at those other pieces of your, of your life and what other kinds of experience gives you.

Nikita 32:52

Yeah, absolutely. And I think maybe the last alternative that we'll talk about, and this is geared towards maybe a younger audience. So whether you're listening to this and you have a younger sibling who's in high school or you are in high school , um, in Tucson at least it's called J ted . Um, these are programs available to high school age individuals. Um, it's like a public school district that basically works with business and industry to offer CTE programs and they have all sorts of different technical programs. So J TED stands for Joint Technical Education District and some examples of like the certificates that they offer to high school students have things like 3D animation , um, automotive technology, cosmetology entrepreneurship , uh, I think they have one in graphic design, cybersecurity, all sorts of things that are actually really highly valuable professions. And uh , it's, it's a great opportunity if you're in high school or you have a , a friend or loved one in high school, J Ted can be an incredible segue into getting real work experience and finding out if you like something or not and kind of entering your adulthood with a , a nice set of skills and marketability in the the job force .

Nina 34:08

Absolutely. And sometimes you just have to be proactive and ask what options are available. I had a friend that did that program at school and she did the cosmetology piece and she learned really quickly that she does not like feed . She <laugh> does not like them. She did not like doing pedicures, like it grossed her out. That was not her thing. But can you imagine if she had to pay for that out of pocket? I think , um, cosmetology esthetician school has anywhere from 15 to $30,000 depending on where you choose to go. That would've been a $15,000 mistake.

Nikita 34:42

Yeah. Yeah. And that's what's crazy is that I didn't even know this, that J TED is a tuition free program. So it's rare in life that you're gonna be given a tuition free anything, at least as current policy stands, but if you have something like j ted available to you, it is hands down a good investment of your time because you it's $0.

Nina 35:06

Absolutely. And take advantage I think of whatever certifications and trainings that you can take advantage of because Totally . I think any little tool that you can add in your tool belt, you never know where it's going to come in handy. I never thought knowing about expungement would help me in a financial literacy world, but everything and here we're works together. Um, your life is not siloed. So what you do in one piece will come into another and you never know if you end up getting that four year degree later on and it's Thanksgiving and the toilet breaks. You have your plumbing certification and you are the hero that can fix the toilet on Thanksgiving. So you just never know.

Nikita 35:48

I tell

Nina 35:48

You , I think come back

Nikita 35:49

All the time about the boat that I missed not having done some sort of like contractor like job because <laugh> owning a house, I'm constantly like, oh my goodness, if I was just an electrician, if I was just a plumber, if I was just somebody who knew carpentry to any degree, I would save so much money for a year just on my own personal expenses trying to repair my house. But

Nina 36:13

Yeah, much money. I mean, I don't, honestly, I was just gonna try to paint my own living room one time and this was so embarrassing. I did literally not know how to open the paint can <laugh> , like , did not know how to pry that thing open. I ended up taking it back to the paint store. I'm just like, I just need to ,

Nikita 36:28

That's pretty bad, Nina . That's pretty bad . <laugh> . You know

Nina 36:31

What ? Who you tell me we're in school. Somebody sits you down and says, we're gonna learn how to open the paint can today. Nowhere , nowhere . True.

Nikita 36:38

It's true. All

Nina 36:39

These uh , is a true story. All these things. So

Nikita 36:41

Real life skills that school just didn't give us. So if your parents didn't, you're just outta luck.

Nina 36:46

Mm-hmm. <affirmative> . Mm-hmm . You're just gonna have to pay someone to paint <laugh> your house for you . Well, I hope y'all just took away something good from all of that , um, painting discussion. <laugh> ,

Nikita 36:57

Is there anything else you wanted to cover in today's episode? Nita ?

Nina 37:00

I think you did a fantastic job and just wanna encourage people to make decisions that are good for themselves now, good for themselves later. And what I always like to say to people is what you do today will make your 80 year old self happy. So if going before your degree taking out that a hundred thousand dollars loan will make your 80 year old self be really happy, do it. If your 80 year old self wants to live debt free , think about a different alternative.

Nikita 37:26

Yeah. Just I think like any financial decision and really a lot of life decisions, just balancing your decisions about current and future self. Exactly like what you're saying Nina, is, is is this both serving me now and later? Um, or is is if it is not serving me as much now, but I know it will be later, is that trade off worth it to me? But evaluating that and remembering kind of both versions of yourself. So we appreciate you all spending your time listening to today's episode and we do hope that you got something valuable out of it, maybe some ideas, a different perspective. And thank you Nina, for joining me and sharing your own unique perspective coming from outside of the financial sector. It's always refreshing to hear kind of your thoughts and views on the world too.

Nina 38:12

Thanks for having me .

Nikita 38:14

All right . Take care.