031 - Richard Howard - Pathways NZ - new Immigration New Zealand Employer Accreditation requirements - bonus episode

This is a bonus episode because Immigration New Zealand recently announced that, effective 1 November 2021, employers who have migrant workers (visa holders) on their staff will now require to be accredited under the new Immigration New Zealand requirements.

In this episode Richard Howard - Licensed Immigration Consultant - of Pathways New Zealand (based in Hamilton and Wellington) answers questions and helps allay fears some clinics may have.

Richard recommends making sure you've got all your immigration-worker I's dotted and T's crossed well before the new rules come into effect.

SHOW LINKS:
Richard Howard - Pathways NZ

Register of Licensed Immigration Consultants in New Zealand

VetStaff
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About DISC-Flow®
DISC is a research-backed and science-based personality profiling tool used to understand our behaviours, communication styles, and work preferences. It’s about understanding what makes you – and the people you work with – tick.

Julie South is a DISC Flow® Certified Trainer, who describes DISC-Flow® profiling as being like having a cheat sheet to better understand yourself and other people. When you know this, it helps you play to your personality strengths, work better in teams, and communicate better.

If you’re keen to find out what your personal DISC type is, what type of leader you are, or what your clinic’s team composition looks like, then get in touch with Julie to find out what's involved.

How to get more bang for your recruitment advertising buck
This is what VetStaff is really good at so if you'd like to stretch your recruitment dollar, please get in touch with Julie because this is something VetStaff can help you with.

How to shine online as a good employer
If you’d like to shine online as a good employer to attract the types of veterinary professionals who're a perfect cultural fit for your clinic please get in touch with Julie because thi...

Transcript

Julie South: 0:07

This is Julie South and you're listening to Paws Claws and Wet Noses the veterinary sector podcast, celebrating. All creatures great and small, and they're fantabulous professionals who look after them all before I get into this week's episode, which is episode 31. And as a bonus one on immigration, I just wanted to tell you about a new widget that I have installed on Paws, claws, wet noses dot F M website. It's an option for you to leave me up to a 90 second voice message. I know you can't wait, right? This means that if you've got ideas for shows or you want me to specifically ask a question of an upcoming guest and those guests are announced at the end of each episode, you can do that. If you click on the episodes page at Claus, pause, witnesses dot F M it's on the right hand side. If you're on a desktop or a laptop, and if you're on a mobile, then at the bottom of the page, as I said to start with, this is a special bonus episode because you've probably seen headlines about a new immigration, New Zealand requirement that kicks into effect on the 1st of November, which affects all employers of migrant workers. It's just started to hit the headlines. Now, immigration New Zealand, is creating a new accredited employer work visa. This together with associated accreditation standards will be introduced on the 1st of November this year. But you can't start doing anything just yet, but you need to be ready for them. The accredited employer work visa was announced in 2019 and it replaces the six visas that it says is supposedly going to, to streamline and become a single visa process. This means that employers like veterinary clinics that employ overseas qualified veterinarians, and maybe you've got some nurses that are overseas qualified and, or Vitex, it now means that you will need to be an accredited employer. Because there's a law in New Zealand that makes it unlawful for non-licensed immigration consultants to advise about immigration matters. I thought it wise to chat with someone who does know what they're talking about and is a licensed immigration consultant. So in this bonus episode, I'm joined by pathways, New Zealand, immigration consultants, managing director, Richard Howard. Just like veterinarians need to be registered. So do immigration consultants, because there are lots of cowboys claiming to be licensed when they're not, it does pay to check. You can check whether someone's licensed or not. And in a round about way you can check their experience too, by checking it, the registration number. I will put the links to this on how you can do that on pause clause, where it knows it's not F M. Episode 31, the registration process started in 2008 with number one. Richard is one of new Zealand's most experienced immigration consultants. He has served for two years as chairman of the New Zealand association for migration and investment, Inc. And this was during the time when the immigration advice industry became regulated bank in 2008, he's been a member of the immigration advisors or authority industry reference group and of the graduate sort of certificate and graduate diploma in New Zealand, immigration advice, cost development and steering committees. Richard together with other pathways, immigration advisors regularly presents at industry continuing professional development. So CPD seminars and events throughout the country, I'll put links to where you can check out immigration consultants and also Richard's company website as well. Pathways New Zealand has offices and Hamilton and Wellington, and is one of the longest established since 1992 and most successful and reputable professional providers of New Zealand, immigration and visa services in New Zealand. There are 12 licensed immigration advisers collectively have over a hundred and. 35 years of immigration related work experience and have assisted almost 20,000 people from over 100 different countries to achieve their New Zealand immigration requirements on their team. I three qualified lawyers and two previous immigration New Zealand offices between them. They're fluent in 10 languages. Richard joined me at very short notice. When I sent out an SOS invitation to be a guest here today. And for that I'm grateful. As always you'll find links to what we talk about today on the paws claws wit noses dot F M website, an old vet told my father when he was a student in Glasgow.

Bryan Gregor: 5:24

He said, if you want to be a success in veterinary practice, Just keep the bubbles open and just arrested. God. Nutrition is not an opinion. It's a science. They called me that weird herbal needle. That, and I, I just remember thinking, well, I'm still gonna do it cause I know it works. And I've got the research to back it from reminiscences of the real James Harriet son to P nutrition, to acupuncture the podcast, discusses current animal health issues from around the world. On veterinarian, Bryan Gregor from New Zealand, just search for the vet podcast, wherever you get your podcasts from paws, claws and wet noses is sponsored by vet staff. If you've never heard of vet staff, it's new, Zealand's only full service recruitment agency. 100% dedicated to the veterinary sector fit staff has been around since 2015 and works nationwide. From Cape Reinga to the bluff and everywhere in between as well as helping Kiwis VetStaff also helps overseas, qualified veterinarians find work in Aotearoa New Zealand VetStaff.co.nz.

Richard Howard : 6:41

To resident visais. Is a 30 month work visa, which in this context of veterinary practices, uh, can be issued either because the veterinary practice is, uh, immigration, New Zealand accredited employer, or because. Uh, the role of veterinarian is on the long-term skill shortage list. All right. So the 30 month work to resident visa can be issued under either of those particular categories. The salary component is not an issue for getting the work to resident fees. So once you are employed on that work to resident visa for 24 months, The person can then lodge a resonance from work application. Now the salary at the currently the one oh six oh eight oh is important because once they have lodged a residence from work application, uh, if the applicant has that level of salary, then their residence application can be expedited. And, and effectively fast track for processing. All right. Normally a residents applications, both under the skilled migrant category and the resonance from work are currently taking about 22 months to process. In fact, the salary component is not actually a critical factor for a vent because. Because the vets have professional registration. So the criteria to have the residence application fast tracked once it's lodged is either vocational registration. Or the salary component. All right. So Viet said, oh, we're always going to have their rates on applications. Fast-track because of the vocational registration. So that's whether they've applied under the resonance from work or under the skilled migrant category, which is unfortunately currently suspended. So they can't actually apply under that category at the moment. The fast tracking that you were talking about. As not to be confused with the current water order exception. Okay. So the border correct. The border exception is purely what the border exemption is purely to get the, the vet through the border to start with. And then they enter New Zealand with effect. They enter new sewing with what we call a critical purpose of visitor visa. All right, which allows them to work in the, in the role that that supported the, the border exemption application. Once they're in New Zealand, they can convert that critical purpose visitor visa to outwork, to resident. work visa, but they still have to work in that role for two years before they can apply for a resident. And that's a bit of a sticking point at the moment. Cause normally you would be able to apply directly for residents under the skilled migrant recents category, which is the main job based resonance category, which is currently suspended.

Julie South: 9:51

Richard, how is the immigration business given that new Zealand's borders are largely closed?

Richard Howard : 10:00

Julie That's, that's really interesting. I mean, you know, you would think that, uh, the business would be quite slow, you know, given that the number of visa, immigration, New Zealand would normally process about 180,000. These are applications every month. And now that currently processing about 60,000 a month. And most of those are for people in New Zealand who are just extending or changing their visas. Normally there's about, I think there's probably about 400,000 visa holders and New Zealand holding, holding temporary visa. So the government has automatically extended. Significant numbers of visa holders in New Zealand. All right, because of the COVID situation, but there are still a significant number that still need to be, have their visa applications, uh, renewed, uh, people also changing jobs. So they hit and they knew U visas. For us, uh, we're quite strong in the investor category space. So we've, we've been processing a significant number of investor applications from offshore. We also have an interest in the, in the healthcare sector. So we've been bringing in. Uh, a significant number of doctors and medical specialists into the country because they, they can enter as other critical health workers. So that we're quite busy in that space. We're also bringing in other critical workers, not so much in the, in the vet space, but certainly in the high-level it. Uh, spice. So we're getting those people through the borders. There is also, and we'll probably get to it later. This, this focus on the new accreditation and work visa raging coming in. So employers particularly, uh, very, uh, interested in an understanding they're migrant workers. These are situation at the moment and, you know, retention of staff is, is really. The biggest factor with employers at the moment, given that the borders are closed? No, you, no, you skills really can come in. So we're working very closely with employers regarding their migrant workers and what we can do with their migrant workers to effectively get long-term visa security for them, given the uncertainty that's in the market at the moment. So overall. Actually, we're pretty busy. I cut the, from that, I don't know whether you'll be able to answer one of them and obviously I'm involved in the veterinary seat to, as you know, we are struggling to get. Visas and exceptions or exemptions, whatever you want to call them across and into the country, because they are sick at 106,000. You know, the, the limit or the threshold$106,080. There are many visits wanting to come to New Zealand that don't meet that threshold. Now, are you aware year of what the health care seek to did to get. The classification so that they don't have to jump through the same hurdles and hoops that the veterinary sector did way back when the, the classifications and the exceptions started to be, to come into practice. Okay. Let's, let's just clarify about the salary threshold, so, okay. So the, the. To get to get, I mean, the vets have, well, I think it's, it's big animal vets have a, have a number that, that has been approved for other critical work. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. All right. I think they've had two, two cohorts basically. Um, and we had to look at that at the time and it was, there was a bit of politics around, you know, how to get those numbers. Um, you know, how to, how to get those invitations through, but very limited. All right. So with the other critical worker, there are two, there were two criteria to get the critical workers through the border. One either you have to evidence that those skills are not readily available in New Zealand and, uh, and that they are, they are basically in critical or to that the RA is important for the local or national economy, or the role is, is critical with, uh, a national project of some significant site. So most. Border exemption requests are made under the former category. So we basically have to evidence that that's, that skill was not readily available now. With that the salary component only comes into play in respect to the long term. So the one oh six oh eight oh salary component is, is a requirement. If you want to get the 12 month work visa initially. So if you know, there may be some projects that you're doing that, that. You know, it might be seasonal. So the vet vet's not required for the whole year. If you could, if you could argue that it's a seasonal requirement and the vet's only required for the six months and, and, and you can demonstrate that those skills. Uh, definitely not readily available in New Zealand. The fact that vets on the long-term skill shortage listed as obviously supportive and then endeavor, but you would still have to do the ongoing advertising to show that then you could get the bowl, the vet through the border at least have a good shot at getting the bit for vet through the border for at least that six month critical purpose. Visitor a visa. Alright. And argue, you know, the, the requirement for the seasonality and the short term duration. Okay. Once I ran New Zealand, then normal visa policies can apply. So if it then transpires that there is another role available to that vehicle, the role is going to be extended. Then you can just transition that visit to the, the work to residents or essential skills work visa as, as per normal. You know, it's still difficult to get people through the border, but, uh, if the skills are very, the more specialist, the skills, right, and the greater, the greater the need, then it's definitely worth a shot with the sick side. The, the seasonal, the six months criteria. Is there a salary threshold for that? No, but of course the salary is indicative of the, of the specialist. And high level nature of the skills. All right. So the salary component is not part of any policy there, but it's, uh, it's uh, obviously material to arguing. You know, that those skills are in demand. Let's talk about this

Julie South: 17:19

new work visa and the changes that are taking place. What what's happening? What is it?

Richard Howard : 17:28

Firstly, it, uh, comes into play on one November. There's not. A lot then employers can do before one November. And our view is there's nothing to be greatly concerned about here. All right. It's pretty straightforward. Fundamentally all employers who are employing migrant workers on employer assisted work visas must be first accredited with immigration and selling. Now we have a current accreditation regime at the moment. That is going to be replaced by this new accreditation rating. So basically there's three levels of accreditation, uh, standard, which is for, uh, employers employing less than six migrant workers, uh, high volume for employers employing six or more. And then there's a, another, uh, accreditation which will apply to labor hire companies and franchise businesses. Our view is that the standard accreditation is pretty much going to be an automated type regime. So basically tick boxes and declaration that that employer has complied with employment, law and policies and, and cetera. Um, you know, there's going to be about 30,000 employers that will have to become. Accredited. So that's quite a big logistical exercise from immigration and New Zealand. So we think that the standard accreditation will be relatively straightforward and just bearing in mind, I mentioned that. The accreditation is required of supporting employer assisted work phases. There were a whole range of work visas, which do not fall under employer assisted with thesis, for example, working holiday visa, partnership, visa, post study, work visas. So all of those employers can employ those people without having to become accredited first. The the second level of accreditation for high volume, we'll be, we'll be more involved and who have a requirement that the employers have to. Effectively support the migrant workers, relocation settlement like that. There, there was something in the, in the, in the wording that employers have to show a commitment to increase wages for new Zealanders. So how that manifests itself in policy wording, we'll just have to wait and see the, and then the, the franchise, uh, labor, Ohio. Uh, accreditation will be more robust because that's where immigration sees, uh, the more likelihood of migrant exploitation and that at the end of the day, what's, what's this accreditation process all about. So at this stage, I don't, I don't think there's anything that employers need to be overly concerned about. You can't do anything about it at the moment. Apparently accreditation applications will open towards the end of September. So for any work visas being applied for after. One November, the employer has to first be a credited. All right. And that's the main thing that we need to understand the other point, which is relevant. Is that okay? After one November, there will be one work visa, and that will replace nice. The essential skills, the work, the resident visas that we talked about initially, and a critical employer and a long-term skill shortage, and, and some Lisa categories, silver fin visas, and citrus, the work to residents, uh, Ray SIEM. We understand we'll continue. With the new policy, but the salary threshold will go to two times the medium wage, which currently is that one oh six oh eight. Oh, figure. We expect that to go to maybe 112,000. So the current threshold for a credit and employer. Recent since 79, five six. So, but, so that's quite a significant jump. Any employers who are accredited and have workers earning above that 79, five six. So, you know, our advice at this stage has to transition as many of those workers onto the work to recent visa to secure their future residence pathway. The other advice is. Introduction of new policies, such as this, uh, likely to result or, you know, insignificant processing delays and teething problems. And so we don't think it's an employer's interest to be thinking about, you know, you work visas in that November to March probably period. Our advice is very much for employees to be looking at their migrant workers at the moment, looking at their visa status. Doing what they can pre one November to extend. Or in you, their, their workers visas you know, at least out to the three years to get over the likely challenges of the new policy. And then also that would avoid them having to get accreditation immediately because you only need the accreditation when you are going to be applying for the new work visa. So yeah, I try and avoid the need to get the accreditation immediately because every. Every man and his dog will be lining up to do that. How Richard, how do you think this is? All these changes are going to impact veterinary clinics and the veterinary sector going forward? Well, I think there will be any great impacts. Uh, in that sector, I think that there will be, I think many, many clinics would not have been Inc accredited anyway, because they, they didn't need to be because the vets had the work to reasons option under the long-term skill shortage. Right. That will be something new for them. But I mean, the policy hasn't been, hasn't been published and probably won't be for another. You know, four or five months. So, you know, the requirements of the accreditation and the process and the timing we don't, we don't know what that's gonna look like, but I'm sure immigration New Zealand will be trying to, to make the process as efficient as possible because it's in their interest to do so. So, so long as all their employment documentation is compliant. I don't think there's anything for them to be overly concerned about. There'll be plenty of publicity about what to do and when to do it. And as I said, you know, if they can look at renewing or extending all their work visa holders before one November, then they will take the heat out of the situation. And there's plenty of time for them to go through that process and their own time later, that was my next question is what do they need to do? So it's to look at who they've got on their teams right now. And the visa type and to, to put plans into, or steps into process. Is that correct? Yeah. I mean, um, you know, they may have support staff or admin staff or, you know, vet nurses and whatever that obviously aren't on the, on the long-term skill shortage list. So therefore they have to go through the process of advertising the roles and doing the labor market check and applying for new visas for those people. If those fees are expiring, I mean, our view is if the work visas are expiring in the next year, say to the end of June next year, then it would be in their interest to renew those phases now. And before one November immigration changes are you expecting to happen? Okay. Well, the biggie at the moment is it's the skilled migrant category. So as I say, that's the main job based reasons category. So normally half of recent applications are made under the skilled migrant category.

Julie South: 25:27

Can I just interrupt? That includes long-term skill shortage. Does it or not?

Richard Howard : 25:32

No.

Julie South: 25:33

Can you clarify the difference please?

Richard Howard : 25:36

All right. So the skilled migrant category is a residence category in point space. The long-term skill shortage is actually a work visa, um, criteria to get, uh, to get a work visa under, uh, under a job on the long-term skill shortage list, which bits out if you get a work visa. I've worked to residence visa under the long-term skill shortage list, and you hold that visa and work in that role for two years. At the end of two years, you can apply for residents from work. Okay? So that's a different residence category, all right. residence from work category. And that's the same as if you have a work to residence visa are under the current accredit an employer you can apply for reasons from work after two years. So that's, that's, uh, they are, that's a different residence category. So we're talking here about the skilled migrant recents category. So the, the category was suspended in April last year, effectively for, for people who don't qualify under the long-term skill shortage, or a crit employer, their only option to apply for reasons apart from being a partner of a new Zealander is the skilled migrant category that's suspended. The first stage of the skilled migrant category is the expression of interest. So expressions of interest are still being lodged, but. And normally every two weeks there would be a selection of expressions of interest. And if your selection was successful, you'd be invited to apply for residence. And then you would make a recent application. So we have a situation where effectively most these a hold is the New Zealand cannot. Currently apply for recents. This is causing great uncertainty in the market. The longer it goes on, the bigger, the problem is there are currently some 9,000 expressions of interest sitting there. You know, waiting to see what happens. The government has announced that it's reviewing the skilled migrant category. We were told to expect an announcement at the end of March, but we're now into June and we still haven't got anything. Then, uh, two weeks ago there was a speech where the government talked about a reset of immigration policies. The takeout from that was that. I think the inference was that they were looking to raise the threshold that would apply to migrant seeking residents and New Zealand. it's probably reasonable to think that consideration has currently be giving, being given in the skilled migrant category as to, you know, raising criteria. If, and when that category reopens, that could be done a number of ways they could raise the, the points past mark, they could, uh, set particular criteria like vocational registration or a salary level, because I think in the current context that the government wouldn't want to be selecting 9,000. Expressions of interest and progressing them to race. The likelihood is that, uh, some criteria will apply, be applied that will effectively make less. Expressions of interest and leachable to be selected. So quite a bit of uncertainty in there, the government also indicated in that speech that it's reviewing the work rights for partners and the work rights of student visa holders, some pretty telling signs that it's going to be tougher for migrants to, to work in New Zealand.

Julie South: 29:18

Just let me clarify that. I'm thinking of a couple of vets that I know who are. They came here on a working holiday visa, and now they have a partnership they're on a partnership visa because they've met a Kiwi. Yep. Keep a girl or a Kiwi guy. Could they be impacted or is it because they are on the, they're they're a long-term skills shortage identified person proficient basically.

Richard Howard : 29:52

I mean they could con they could easily convert our policy to a, to a long-term skill shortage, or work visa before. One November, because the long-term skill shortage policy is going out the door on one November. So we, we, we don't know if there's anything going to be replaced on that space in respect to the partnership work. Right? Our thinking probably is it's going to apply predominantly if not only to the, uh, work rights of partners of workforces. Hardest as opposed to partners of New Zealand, citizens or residents. Sorry, I think there'll be a bit of an uproar if it's, if the letter was to take the, be the case. All right. So I think, I think they're okay. But again, our advice would be, so under the partnership criteria, you can apply for reasons after living together with your UCL and partner, uh, in a genuine and stable relationship for 12 months. So in the present. Uncertain space. You know, our advice to everyone is, is deal with the certainty that, you know, if you're eligible apply. Cause I think that, uh, even the partnership residents category will probably get reviewed next year, sometime as well, because it's, it's not in line with overseas jurisdictions. Uh, you know, one year living together is probably a bit short. Proof that employers have to provide to demonstrate that they need this overseas person to work here.

Julie South: 31:30

What might that look like? Do you think that there's nobody in New Zealand to do the job? How, how do employers prove that over what timeframe?

Richard Howard : 31:41

Wow. I mean advice and in the, in the medical sector of and and in the it sector, as you just maintain the job advert. So obviously you have to advertise nationally. I mean, you know, our advice is obviously, and seek plus in the, in the veterinary association websites and the specialist job sites, but you just maintain the advert. Ongoing until you get the person on board. So I think that let's see the longer you've been advertising and not had any success in that, you know, supports your argument. But going back to what we talked about earlier about getting the border exemption, we're based to focus just on very specialist areas. Uh, you know, I'll be expertise to get them through at the moment. Cause I can't see that at say, you know, immigration I've already kind of made these allowances for these two cohorts already. And I'm sure the industry is making representations to the government too. Keep on that and keep growing that. And that's where the focus has to be on, on that side of the fence. It's definitely worth, it's definitely worth that. We have a very specialist requirement and we have someone with a credential is to definitely have a go at getting them through the border.

Julie South: 33:02

Do you let this sounds this whole new. Requirement accreditation requirement sounds like a major headache. Another form of compliance that clinics have to do that they don't have to do right now. Is there any way an immigration consultant, an agency like yours can help them either through that or actually relieve them of that burden because you going to be acting as their agent instead of.

Richard Howard : 33:36

Oh, absolutely. But you know, at the moment we don't know what an involves, right. We know what the current accreditation regime involves. And I'm thinking that for many vet clinics, they will be in that standard accreditation regime where they'll be employing less than six. Work visa holders and the, and the ones we talked about on the partnership. So they don't, they're not part of that as well. So I think that most vet clinics are going to fall into the standard accreditation, which we are very much hoping will be pretty much an automated regime. So I don't think there's anything to be fearful of in that space. The next level of accreditation, the high volume, that that will be more involved. I'm thinking that yeah, we can definitely help in that space, but. But we're in the doc. It's it's just like everyone else at the moment. I think, you know, the government's kind of given us the headlines, but the policies yet to be written. So there's bound to be a few fish hooks that will come out on that. Hopefully by August, we will have that. And then we can give some advice. I mean, we will come back to you and give you the advice and you can disseminate it then. Do you think it's a good idea? Look, working in the immigration space for just about 30 years where we're used to, uh, government changes and direction and a new thing. So we become a bit ambivalent to, to what we have to do just to, just to keep doing our job. I think the, the reasoning behind it is basically to ensure that. All employers have compliant employment practices and then the vet sector, you know, you have very professional organizations and companies all right. And who are clearly compliant. Yeah. They, so basically what we're doing is introducing a whole range of paperwork and protocols, which are really just targeted at a very small number of employers, but everyone else has to pay the price. So, you know what I mean, beta, just to. Just to target those non-compliant employers and sort them out. So everyone else could get on with life. But these are the cards that have been dealt. I think it's, uh, there's merit in the fact that, you know, the combining the six feet yeah. Categories and the ones that we, you know, we don't have to get confused between them. But I think the, the current policies were working quite well. So it didn't, we were quite comfortable with, with how they work. There's so some question mark about how these work to resident visas are going to work in the new regime. And we certainly haven't got clarity on that. I mean, our thinking is that because there won't be, there won't be a work tourism visa as such, it'll just be one visa. This accredited employer work visa thinking is that. You get the accredit employer work visa. And then if you have worked for two years and your salary has been above two times a medium weight, so let's say 112,000 for that two years, then you can apply for residence after two years. So there won't be a specific visa category that caters for that. But that's our thinking is how that one would work in the new regime.

Julie South: 36:50

How do people get hold of you?

Richard Howard : 36:53

Obviously our websites. So www.pathwaysnz.com. Just go there. There's a, there's a, uh, a contact record there, or ring us at any time. So you can ring on our Hamilton number. 07 834 9222 We have a great inquiry team. So anyone can ring at any time. Ask any question. Uh, there's no cost involved. We have, we have the office in Hamilton and we have the office in Wellington as well. So we have, we have 12 licensed advisors. We also cover a lot of languages. So, you know, shouldn't be a problem. Another significant challenge when you sell it, then you Zeeland employers at the moment in regard to talent is Australia. Australia is going to be a huge attraction for not just New Zealand talent, but New Zealand, migrant talent, and also for, you know, whereas before it might've been a decision between New Zealand and Australia, New Zealand is quickly losing traction and, and, and that. And that game and, and on Australia is coming out on part and the migrants in New Zealand who don't have a pathway or don't have a current, certain, or visible pathway to residence. Why would they stay here when they can go to Australia in 30% or more and have more options as far as being able to stay permanently in Australia. So I've kind of digressed a bit from, from your original question, which has a, about the petition to get. Fits through the border. I think that the government is very fixated on just on the, the protocols that have had some place in it. It's only going to be, it's only going to be tweaking around the edges for the time being well, I don't, I don't see any major shift in what it's going to do. And we can see that by, you know, just approving 30 events in that last round. I mean, why 30? Why not? Why not? 130. You know, that, that that's where you have to focus the attention to get that number up. I think realistically speaking, that's, that's where you have best chance of getting some traction. I don't, you know, if we, if we're not getting, um, You, we, we might be getting any other kind of interns through the border. We won't be getting any working holidays, people except for ones who are stuck in Australia, who, who you can attract to New Zealand. You know, we've tried a lot of things to get through the government exceptions, et cetera. So we're not seeing any. We're not seeing any tractability, really in that big picture stuff. And the fact that the skilled migrant category remains suspended. So, and decisions are not being made when they are clearly urgently needed. Doesn't give us a lot of confidence that, that we can, we can get anything else across the line. At this stage.

Julie South: 39:49

I have personally tried to. Get a vet into New Zealand who was earning 145. She was declined. I've heard stories of$200,000 specialists declined not so long ago. Just a few weeks ago. I had a husband and wife. The couple and we were making it so hard for them to come to New Zealand, Australia, welcomed them with open arms and we lost them.

Richard Howard : 40:23

That's that's the risk that we're facing. That's the risk at all employers in New Zealand and I kind of be facing for that high level talent. The biggest shoe for us at the moment is for employers to retain their existing staff. The market is very competitive at the moment. The border is a closed. There is a lot of competition. There is a, you know, we're seeing, obviously we just see the migrant worker component, but you know, we're seeing migrant workers, you know, being headhunted from one employer to another, to another, and, you know, with, with significant. Pay increases to move employers that may, you know, I wouldn't expect that the vet sector would be immune from that type of competition. So, uh, our, our advice to all employers in the, in the current. The environment, particularly to understand the, the uncertainty that migrant workers are facing acknowledged that the, I suppose, the, um, that if they lose those skills, they won't be able to replace them because we can't, you know, normally get people through the border. So that that's really what we're telling employers at the moment. Look after this stuff. Yup. Yup.

Julie South: 41:46

I hope you found this bonus episode helpful. Like I said, I'll put links about what was discussed and other stuff on the show notes. Page of paws claws, wet noses dot F M check out episode 31 normal sequencing will resume next week with Dr. Brian Gregor of the vet. Podcast, like I've said before this book got a bit of a, a fan-girl thing happening there because the podcast is what paws claws went. Noses wants to be when it grows up. Also coming up as Dr. Fiona Esam. Who's a Massey vet grad from the class of 2011, and is now the welfare and ops manager of companion animals, New Zealand. And that episode. We're going to bust some myths about microchipping, the role that microchipping plays in care management and the future of animal identification stay tuned for facial recognition and nose scans. So if you have questions for Dr. Fiona about microchipping, go to the paws claws, wet noses dot F M website, and you can ask your questions there. If you've got a student loan and, or you would like to know how to pay it or your mortgage, any other debt off, faster than your differently, need to tune in to hear Janet Natta of smart money advice. Again, if you have money management questions, then Janet. As the woman to ask those of, so go to the pours clause, witnesses dot F M website, and ask the questions there. Remember to hit, follow wherever you listen to your podcasts. It is free to hit follow, and that way you will never miss out on future episodes. Thank you so much for listening. Paws, claws and wet noses is sponsored by vet staff. If you've never heard of it, staff it's new, Zealand's only full service recruitment agency. 100% dedicated to the veterinary sector fit staff has been around since 2015 and works nationwide from Cape Reinga to the bluff and everywhere in between as well as helping Kiwis VetStaff Also helps overseas, qualified veterinarians find work in Aotearoa New Zealand Vet. staff.co dot. NZ.