Inside the New New Zealand Diploma in Veterinary Nursing with Kristina Naden

Welcome to Episode 206 of Veterinary Voices, hosted by Julie South. With listeners in 1,400 cities worldwide, Veterinary Voices is your trusted source for insights into New Zealand's dynamic veterinary industry.  This episode is proudly sponsored by VetStaff, New Zealand's leading recruitment agency dedicated to connecting veterinary professionals with exciting career opportunities in Kiwi vet clinics. 

Today, Julie South continues her informative chat with Kristina Naden, a senior lecturer in veterinary nursing at Otago Polytechnic. This is the second part of their discussion on New Zealand's new Diploma in Veterinary Nursing, set to welcome its first cohort in February 2025. If you missed the first part, be sure to check out Episode 205 for the full context.

In this episode Kristina chats with Julie about:

• what's the most exciting part about the new Dip VN you're looking forward to? (at 05:30)
• how does the 750 practicum hour requirement work? what's changed? (06:06)
• how does NZ Dip.VN compare to the RCVS VN qualification? (08:47)
• has the new Dip. VN impacted / affected the BVN? (13:00)
• what's the future of post graduate qualifications for veterinary nurses in NZ? (13:52)

Join Julie and Kristina as they delve into the exciting developments in veterinary nursing education in New Zealand and explore the evolving landscape of this very rewarding profession. 

Whether you're a current veterinary professional or considering a career in veterinary nursing, this episode offers valuable perspectives and inspiration.

Stay tuned for next week's episode, where Julie will be joined by Michelle Cameron, an executive member of the New Zealand Veterinary Nursing Association (NZVNA). Michelle will discuss the critical role veterinary nurses play in the financial success of veterinary clinics. Don't miss it!

Struggling to get results from your job advertisements? 
If so, then shining online as a good employer is essential to attracting the types of veterinary professionals who're a perfect cultural fit for your clinic.   

The VetClinicJobs job board is the place to post your next job vacancy - to find out more get in touch with Lizzie at VetClinicJobs

Transcript

Julie South [00:00:05]:
Welcome to Veterinary Voices, episode 206. I'm your host, Julie south. With listeners in 1400 cities around the world, Veterinary Voices celebrates all that's great about working in New Zealand's veterinary industry. You can find back copies at veterinaryvoices.edu. veterinary Voices is brought to you by vet staff, New Zealand's only recruitment agency specialising in helping veterinary professionals from anywhere in the world find jobs they're excited about going to on Monday mornings in Kiwi vet clinics. Check out Vetstaff co dot NZ. Today, Kristina Naden and I continue our two part chat about New Zealand's new diploma in veterinary nursing, which kicks off with its first cohort of students in February 2025. If you haven't listened to that first part of this chat yet, I'll put links to the show notes for you to go and have a listen to.

Julie South [00:01:10]:
Episode 205 Kristina Naden is a senior lecturer in veterinary nursing at the School of Animal Health at Otago Polytechnic. Last week we talked about how this new qualification came about. Today, Kristina explains the 750 practicum hour requirement, which frightens a few people. But stay tuned because Kristina explains how this requirement has changed and how it absolutely hasn't as well. We join the conversation here where I asked Kristina whether the old diploma in veterinary nursing was so broken that it needed fixing. I'm a great believer of if it wasn't broken, don't fix it. And yes, there may have been nine variations on something as part of the diploma going on until 2025. Was it broken? Did this need to happen?

Kristina [00:02:23]:
Yeah, it is difficult. I mean, NCQA has, they have just a set cycle of reviewing qualifications, so that's just part of their process. So a review is going to happen. I guess that's their prerogative to do that. I guess it's to make sure, I suppose, that they're still fit for purpose, that they're still meeting industry needs, that things change and evolve. And so I guess that's the prerogative. NDQA has to review them. I don't know that it was broken as such.

Kristina [00:02:49]:
But one other thing your industry was saying we want students with more practical experience and that's part of what we've tried to do. And coming back to that vet that said, oh, you know, I hire on personality, on how that person's going to fit with my team. So those are probably the two things I think we've tried to build up in the program. But it's difficult, isn't it? Because you've got to be, and we've talked about this in some of our meetings so many times. We don't want to reinvent the wheel and let's not just, you know, everyone wants to sort of make their mark, I suppose, when they're working on something like this. But, yeah, it's a difficult one. It's a lot of work that's gone into it and you sort of think, you hope what we're doing is going to achieve what we want to achieve, but it's a slow moving beast. That's the reality.

Julie South [00:03:33]:
Over the more recent years, Massey University has trended, moved towards personality for veterinarian intake. Move towards personality rather than straight out a plus students. It will make a difference, I believe. Is that also what you're saying with nursing?

Kristina [00:03:57]:
It's a funny one because we don't tend to interview students, prospective students, in terms of personality, I do think that probably some personality traits are really important. If it's an industry or if it's a role that someone's interested in going into. It's much more than, you know, just cuddling puppies and kittens. Yeah. And it's being able to have that, I guess being pragmatic and is one part of it, but also having that ability to communicate with a range of different people and having that empathy and that critical thinking is one thing that seems to crop up a lot, you know, critical thinking, reflective practice, and that's definitely. Yeah, definitely. The personality traits that would be beneficial if that's something that, that you want to go into. Yeah, it's.

Kristina [00:04:47]:
I mean, we've talked a little bit about interviewing people, you know, prospective students and worked at places before where we've done that. And it's an interesting one because I think some people interview very well. You know, it's like going for a job interview. Some people are very good at interviews, and then you get them and you employ them and you're like, oh, my gosh, where did the person go that we just interviewed? So I don't know that that is, would be a, you know, a silver bullet, if you like. It may certainly help, but it's, it's a lot of work to do that. I don't know. I mean, maybe it's something we work on in terms of how, how the role is promoted, you know, how the role is seen out there and, you know, for people who is something that they might be interested in doing and there may be some work to do around that.

Julie South [00:05:30]:
What's the most exciting part for you? Looking forward.

Kristina [00:05:33]:
I'm looking forward to seeing how, I guess, how students respond to some of the changes we've made, you know, seeing the first role of graduates from the new qualified will be pretty cool. Graduation is an awesome time anyway. It's just neat to see people that you meet on day one and they were sitting there in class looking slightly petrified and then at the end of it they're amazing and doing really well and they've got jobs and that sort of thing. So that's always cool. Yeah, I just, I really like seeing people develop and evolve and I think that's one of the things that's kept me in teaching.

Julie South [00:06:06]:
Kristina, 750 hours of practicum. That sounds pretty heavy duty. Can you talk me through that please?

Kristina [00:06:16]:
Yeah, it's a big number. So that's spread out over four practicum courses. Yeah, we have the two in year one which are 15 credits each. So one in semester one and semester two. And they are. So the 750 hours is not all the hours in clinic because that does seem. That's a lot, I know, for clinics to take on. So the current qualification requires a minimum of 480 hours in a clinic and we recommend actually that students go into two clinics just to see different practice.

Kristina [00:06:45]:
You know, things run differently in different clinics, whether it's a smaller clinic or a larger clinic and that's the same recommendation with this new program. But the number of hours in clinic is the same as the existing program, a minimum of 480. And those other hours are really built up with additional sort of simulation time and things like that. So I guess, yeah, we sort of don't want clinics to worry that they're going to get a sudden onslaught of students coming into them demanding hours because it will be this same number of hours and we've actually skewed the, the requirement for hours more to go into the second year for clinics. So the students that clinics will mostly be getting will be second year students. So they'll have hopefully more, you know, more theory knowledge under their belt and also more practical skills already under their belts. They'll also all be coming in with the same practical workbook. So yes, there'll be a workbook.

Kristina [00:07:35]:
You know, we have to sort of somehow make sure that people are, have got the practical abilities but it will be the same from, for every student depending on. It doesn't matter whether they come from whichever provider. So they might, clinic might have students coming in from three different providers and they all have the same workbook. So hopefully that will be easier for clinics as well. They won't have to get used to sort of lots of different workbooks. There's also more of an emphasis in the workbooks. Well, there is an emphasis now on reflective practice. So that's coming back to one of those interpersonal skills where we want students to, you know, maybe observe something happening in clinic and then write down what they observed and then write down what they thought about it, what they've learned from it.

Kristina [00:08:15]:
It could be, you know, how does this compare to what you have learned in your theory? Were you surprised at what happened or was it what you expected? All those sort of things. So there's less sort of tick the box and sign this off and less, you know, demanding, you know, a list of, oh, please sign off these six skills that I've done today and a little bit more onus, I guess, back on the student to think about what they've been observing and what they've learned from those hours that they've been spending in clinic. But, yeah, it's not 750 hours in a clinic. That would be. I think that would be quite full on to expect that.

Julie South [00:08:46]:
So when you were talking about that, I was thinking about how the Royal College nursing in the UK, nursing qualification comes about or is gained, which, from the outside, it appears that it's more like an apprenticeship. When you were assessing, reassessing the qualification because NZQA's five years clocked over, did you look overseas to see what was really good about what was working there, or did you or not?

Kristina [00:09:27]:
Yeah, we have talked about it and the standards is definitely heading towards a two year qualification. So in the UK, it's a minimum of two years, in the US, minimum of two years and recommended to be more. We did talk about apprenticeship models, but I think that's. That would be quite challenging in the current New Zealand sort of environment to go down that path. We've ended up going. Staying on the same track with practical hours and placements and work placements in clinic. But definitely there's that, you know, that trend internationally to have a minimum of a two year qualification as a standard. And I think in New Zealand, it's kind of been the pseudo standard qualification anyway, for the last wee while that you have a two year diploma.

Kristina [00:10:11]:
We have actually, as part of, you know, there's been some new qualifications and redesigning of the animal care qualifications and there is a new level four animal healthcare assistant qualification and that's one year. And that's been. That was first rolled out in February 2020, 2023. So we've had some graduates just coming through from that now and that's more designed for people who maybe they don't want to be involved in diagnostic testing or surgery or nurse consults or that kind of thing, but they still want to be involved in looking after patients in a clinical setting. So they can go and do. There's the level four animal healthcare assistant course. It's one year full time, and it may be there that they do that for a few years and they go, actually, I do want to step up and do a vet nursing qualification and they can move on to do the two year diploma. So we have sort of.

Kristina [00:11:00]:
That sort of been introduced as a. To fill that gap, I think. And there's a really strong need for that. And that's quite common in the UK to have people who are animal healthcare assistants, and in the US actually, as well. So they're not a vet nurse as such, but they have a really important role in the husbandry of patients. And I think there was, with the current qualification, the NZ cat, there was potentially also a little bit of confusion in the industry about, you know, if someone got their NZ Cat qualification after one year and went out looking for a job. I think that some of the feedback was there was a little bit of confusion about, well, what's the difference between them and someone who's got the diploma in vet nursing? So someone who's done this one year NZ cat qual and who's a, who was called, you know, a veterinary nurse assistant, like, well, what's the difference between a veterinary nurse assistant and a two year diploma? Veterinary nurse? So that's part of the rationale, I think, a little bit as well, going to that full two year diploma course.

Julie South [00:11:56]:
I just want to interrupt this chat for a very brief moment to share something important for clinics around the world doing their own recruitment. Vetclinicjobs.com. you probably already know and agree that traditional recruitment methods just aren't cutting it anymore, which means a different approach is necessary. And this means that you need to differentiate and showcase what makes your clinic the greatest place to work. Vetclinicjobs.com is all about boosting your clinic's employer brand, which is not to be confused with your clinic's client brand. They are two completely different things, and vetclinicjobs.com is totally affordable. So give your recruitment marketing the oomph it needs@phetclinicjobs.com. now let's get back to today's show with the new diploma course.

Julie South [00:13:03]:
Has it brought about any changes to the bachelor's program?

Kristina [00:13:10]:
No. The way that essentially works now is entry to the bachelor of Veterinary nursing. Is by completing the two year diploma in vet nursing or an equivalent qualification from overseas. So at the moment the bachelor of vet nursing is the same. There have been some discussions that maybe we need to revisit that qualification and what that looks like, but that's sort of a little bit further on down the drawing board once we've got this diploma sort of up and running. Yeah, and there's also, you know, been discussions about the importance of maybe introducing some postgraduate quals as well for vet nurses. But again, that's sort of, I think that's probably in people's minds but also a little bit further down the to do list than where we are at the moment.

Julie South [00:13:53]:
Kristina, you just mentioned postgrad qualifications. You're in the throws the middle, right? Share those, please.

Kristina [00:14:05]:
Yes, so I completed actually the Bachelor of Vet nursing a few years ago when it first came out, got that one ticked off and pretty much straight after that I thought, well, I quite like doing. And I'd also discovered that I quite like doing research and had done a little bit of research, a couple of research projects by that stage, quite small, but decided to go on and do master's degree. So I enrolled in a master of rural science through university in Australia and been doing that for the last few years. So I'm looking at the impact of therapeutic riding on horses in New Zealand. Been working with New Zealand Rhine for the disabled with that for the last few years and they've been super supportive and really interested in the study, in the research and yeah, been really helpful actually. And there's a really good bunch of people there, so been doing that for the last. Crikey, you don't want to count the years for four years. But I'm actually also on the throes of upgrading that to a PhD, which I actually didn't even know it was a thing you could do.

Kristina [00:14:58]:
But yes, I'm hoping that the paperwork for that will be through any day soon and then that adds on another two years of study to it. But there's still, I feel like the research project just kind of feels to me unfinished at the moment. So there's one more bit that I really want to do. Experiment, they call essentially so, or an intervention. So where you go out and you measure parameters and then you try and see if you can, you know, do something and change those parameters and then, you know, measure them again at the end and hopefully things improve, you know, with your experiment that you've done. So, yeah, so that's. I've just sort of nailed myself down for another two years of that and then hopefully come out with a PhD at the other end and get to wear a floppy hat.

Julie South [00:15:38]:
Go, yeah, I have one, I guess. Dumb question. I know there's no such thing as a dumb question. I say it often. You said you were looking at the effects of riding and disabled the effect on the horse or the effects on the humans that use.

Kristina [00:15:59]:
Oh, yeah, sorry, I should have clarified that. Yeah, the effects on the horse. So there's a lot of research and actually, the idea about the impact of animal assisted therapies on humans, and that's. So therapeutic writing comes under the umbrella term of animal assisted therapy. So the idea actually came about when I was doing a paper for my BVN on anthrozoology, and it was, we did a section on animal assisted therapies, and there was a couple of papers we read where it was, you know, focusing on dogs about how. How much is it? How does it affect the dogs? And they were, you know, sort of saying that some of the handlers weren't always that good at recognizing signs of stress in the dog and knowing to remove the dog from the situation. And I thought, oh, that's interesting. And I was trying to find more papers about it, and there wasn't really a lot out there since then.

Kristina [00:16:49]:
There's, you know, more have come out, and I'm a horsey person, so I thought, oh, quite interested to see about, you know, therapeutic riding. And there's some, you know, a lot of research about how good it is for people and the benefits to people. And there's some really neat benefits to people, not just physical, but also the psychosocial benefits. You know, people become more communicative, and there'll be parents talk about driving home from their therapeutic writing session, and. And the child is, you know, who's normally very quiet or doesn't talk, will be talking about what they did or talking about the horse. And so they develop stronger connections with their friends and family. So there's a ton of research about that, but not so much about, you know, how the horses. What the horse's role is in that.

Kristina [00:17:32]:
And it can be really difficult for the horses because some riders are not very balanced in the saddle due to whatever challenges they've got going on with their bodies. And some of them can suddenly be. Have loud verbal outbursts, which, for a horse, can be a little bit startling. So I think it takes quite a special kind of horse to be able to provide those therapeutic riding services. So, yeah, that's sort of been my interest on what the horse's role is in it and how they're affected by it.

Julie South [00:18:08]:
I hope you found that interesting. Who knows? It might have sparked something inside of you to pick up your books again, or the books again. And maybe, just maybe, consider your own master's or PhD studies and or research. If that happens, I'd love for you to contact me. I'd love to know about that. And I'm sure Kristina would as well. Next week, we are catching up with another amazing kiwi veterinary nurse, Michelle Cameron. Michelle is one of the executive members of the NZVNA, the New Zealand Veterinary Nursing Association.

Julie South [00:18:47]:
Michelle's passion is on the worth and the value, and I put those two words in air quotes, worth and value that veterinary nurses bring to a veterinary clinic, especially the financial success of a clinic. This is a subject that is really important not only to me, but to both the vet nurses on my teams. Tanya at Vet staff and Lizzie at Vet clinic jobs. I look forward to being with you again next week, where Michelle shares the most common ways many Vet clinics are missing out on benefiting from the value that vet nurses bring to a clinic's financial success. This is Julie south signing off and inviting you to go out there and be the most fantabulous version of you you can be. Until then, Kakati Anno.