Vet Clinic Sustainability - Q&A with Drs Francesca Brown, Rose Unsworth, Liza Schneider - where and how to start with being a sustainable vet clinic

Vet Clinic Sustainability - three vet panel discussion on what vet clinics can do to start or further their sustainability journey

GUESTS:

Dr Francesca Brown:
Head of Programmes and Principal Lecturer, Vet, Nursing Education and Chair, Educational Standards committee at Otago Polytech
Previous guest episodes:
Episode 28
Episode 29

Dr Rose Unsworth - Companion Animal Veterinarian
Complementary Veterinary Medicine Branch of the NZVA.  Rose has also featured twice as a guest on Paws Claws & Wet Noses:
Episode 09
Episode 21

Dr Liza Schneider - Companion Animal Veterinarian
Prinicipal and owner of award winning Holistic Vets in Tauranga.   
Liza established Holistic Vets in 2003.   
You’ll hear more about Liza’s journey next week.

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Transcript

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Vet Clinic Sustainability - Veterinarian Panel Discussion

[00:00:00] Julie South: Welcome to episode 49 of Paws Claws and Wet Noses the vet med podcast, celebrating all creatures great and small, and they're fantabulous professionals who look after them all. I'm your show. Julie south, before we start this week's episode, I'd like to invite you. If you haven't already to sign the, get two VIPs in Z petition, I've launched asking the New Zealand government to set aside two MIQ spaces per week to allow those visits, that immigration New Zealand issues, visas to, to allow them to have timely entry into New Zealand to start with.

[00:00:51] Last week I heard of a, another clinic in crisis mode, overworked and overstressed vets needing to cut back [00:01:00] its opening hours. I also heard about some connects buckling under the weight of the overflow of neighboring clinics and also needing to cut back their hours because they haven't got enough staff to manage the demands.

[00:01:17] Requesting these two MIQ spaces per week is in line with what the indeed VA and the indeed VC is lobbying the New Zealand government for we're all on the same page. Now, contrary to some of the comments I'm seeing about my motives on social media and the vitriol I'm receiving. I'm not doing this because it benefits benefits me.

[00:01:40] I wish it did. It'd be great if it did, but it doesn't, I'm doing this because this is a small way I can help raise public awareness about what it's like in New Zealand vet clinics right now, because the public has absolutely no idea. They think that your jobs are full of puppy kisses [00:02:00] and cute PB lambs.

[00:02:02] They have no idea that you're on your feet all day working for psyche pay. That's probably half of what your human health care peers earning. They don't know that the clinics are having to close in different parts of the country or that after hours service is being compromised for baby parents don't know this, hence the petition, which is my way of helping the New Zealand bit meets.

[00:02:27] Yeah. And when I'm slammed on social media, it hurts, especially when I'm working behind the scenes to try and make a positive difference to as many lives of the amazing, the nurses, vets, and vet clinics who are making their own positive differences for your patients as. Yeah, it hurts. I'm on the same side as you I'm on the same side as the NZ VA, as the inset VNA as the New Zealand Vic council.

[00:02:58] So please help me get the word [00:03:00] out to the public, through the petition so they can help bring pressure to bear on the government. You can sign a petition, totally confidentially by using the tiny URL link, which is tiny url.com forward slash get to vets in zero. To as the number two or by scrolling to the very bottom of the vet staff.co dot INSEAD homepage.

[00:03:23] So that's tiny U R l.com forward slash get to vet. Now changing the subject completely through September, we vet staff ran the love, your vet nurse competition to help showcase how some of God's zones, fantabulous vet, nurses, state, or bright eyed and bushy tailed when they're not working in. We're super excited to be able to announce the five winning clinics who will get to enjoy a lunchtime shot with our love.

[00:03:55] And when we can make it all happen, we will make it [00:04:00] happen when we're at our lockdown. When teams can be together at the same time, the winning clinics. Pet doctors and Tristram straight. That's a Hamilton clinic. How much on small animal veterinary center, pet doctors, St Luke's and exotic center, kibitz, Chartwell, and Taronga fit services.

[00:04:20] So congratulations to all of you. We'll make it happen. If you are keen to see what these nurses do to stay or bright eyed and bushy tailed, when they're not working, then visit fit staff.in Ziad on Facebook. 

[00:04:39] Bryan Gregor: And all vet told my father when he was a student in Glasgow, he said, if you want to be a success in veterinary practice, Just keep the bubbles open and just arrested.

[00:04:48] God. Nutrition is not an opinion. It's a science. They called me that weird herbal needle that, and I just remember thinking, well, I'm still going to do it because I know it [00:05:00] works. And I've got the research to back it from reminiscences of the real James Harriet son to P nutrition, to acupuncture the podcast, discusses current animal health issues from around the world.

[00:05:11] Um, visionary and Brian greeter from New Zealand, just search for the fit podcast. Wherever you get your podcasts from this last week, just gone. I had the pleasure of catching up with three very passionate veterinarians, all on different individual Korea journeys, but all who have one common focus and that focus is veterinary sustainable.

[00:05:35] Julie South: Today as part one and the sustainability series, since we recorded, sadly, the New Zealand association and the New Zealand vet nurse association have made the decision to cancel this year's conference. The November conference. I really feel for everyone on the conference organization team, because. That decision would have been getting [00:06:00] and not an easy one to make.

[00:06:02] Originally when this podcast series was decided on my objective was to help spread the word via digital audio of examples and opportunities for mid professionals to start this, to start their sustainable journey as a way for other fit med professionals to see what's being done so that they too might start their own.

[00:06:22] Coming up. We've got interviews coming up in upcoming weeks. We've got interviews with clinic owners, practice managers, industry leaders, corporates, all sorts of people on what they're doing to support Vietnamese sustainable. This episode was recoup recorded using a four way zoom link and places it's not the best.

[00:06:46] And you'll be able to recognize the zoom warble from time to time. I've done my best to edit out those bits. There's also reference to the November conference. Cause like I said, we recorded it before it was [00:07:00] canceled. And as always, I will put links mentioned on the episode page, which has episode 49 at pours clause, which noses dot F M, where you can find out more about this groups, Instagram and Facebook, and the contact details for.

[00:07:20] The woman I'm chatting with here, paws, claws and wet noses is sponsored by vet staff. If you've never heard of it, staff it's new, Zealand's only full service recruitment agency. 100% dedicated to the veterinary sector and fit staff has been around since 2015 and works nationwide from Kate Wrangler to the bluff and everywhere in between as well as helping Kiwis fix.

[00:07:48] Also helps overseas, qualified veterinarians find work and art and New Zealand fit staff.co dot. Indeed. I'm chatting [00:08:00] with Dr. Francesca Brown, who is head of programs and principal lecturer fit nursing education and chair. Educational standards committee at Otago politic Francesca has been a guest on paws, claws and witnesses before.

[00:08:16] So check out episodes 28 and 29. Dr. Rose Unsworth is a locum companion animal veterinarian, a dedicated member of the complimentary veterinary medicine branch of the New Zealand. The association and also rose has featured twice as a guest on pause clause with noses. Her episodes are episodes nine and 21.

[00:08:41] And new is new to post-close close noses is Dr. Liza Schneider. Liza is a companion animal veterinarian and owner of award-winning holistic VIPs. And. Lisa established wholistic VIPs and 2003. And [00:09:00] you'll hear more about laser's journey next week. So make sure to tune in then, but today these three passionate vets are talking about their ongoing journey of discovery on their individual journeys of sustainability as always all put links on the episode page, which is 49 at pause cause wit.

[00:09:24] Dot if IM Francesca, if we start off with you and your research, is that the beginning for you or? 

[00:09:34] Francesca Brown: Well, you're not, not the current research, but I did a graduate diploma, sustainable practice many years ago. And I guess, I think it's a bit like a rose, my personal journey was earlier. Yeah. But it was that sort of realization that we needed to do more.

[00:09:52] You know, and work collaboratively. I think so. Yeah, but it was, I think for me, I didn't, I did my graduate diploma in sustainable [00:10:00] practice thinking the veterinary industry is really unsustainable environmentally. I want to help, I did that, but by the time I got to the end of it, I went, Hey, Until the people are looked after and that's row came into my master's research until the people are looked after in the, uh, coordinates, you know, food shelter, all of those things are looked after in their sense of worth and those sort of things.

[00:10:24] Then it's really hard for them to think outside themselves and look to other, look to what can I do for the greater good of the environment. So that's when I got onto the site layer, looking after the people, which is a big part of sustainable. You've talked about the collaborative journey. What does, if we go around the room here, what does collaborative journey mean for you?

[00:10:47] It means that I don't have all the answers nor do I have to have all the answers, but by connecting with people that are motivated and interested in positive change together, we can come up with [00:11:00] solutions and we can test things. Um, we can share our wins and our losses to. For you to grow the knowledge.

[00:11:08] So, and together, I think it's, uh, you get kind of like from a veterinary perspective, you get hybrid vigour, you know, so rather than one plus one is two, you get one plus one is actually three. 

[00:11:19] Liza Schneider: Well, that's a beautiful way of putting it. Absolutely one plus one is two, but when we work together that one plus one can be 3, 4, 5, 6.

[00:11:27] When we leverage off each other and support each other, we don't feel alone on this journey. And for me, um, sustainability has always been important personally, having grown up in South Africa that I'll talk to you more about next time. But so when I started farming, we practice, it was important to me to do what we could for the environment.

[00:11:44] And the little things that we did by trying to recycling our rubbish and looking at our resources and using them wisely, that wasn't very popular with some of my team at that time. And I had to grow them to understand the importance of it. And now to come into a bakery arena [00:12:00] where we've got amazing people that were working with the group who key and are motivated, we can leverage each other's talents and not feel alone in this world where it's only starting to become the fashionable thing that needs to be the mosquito.

[00:12:13] And um, for our colleagues out their practice that might feel alone because they're trying to help. They practice this to realize that this is an important part of our future. It's just lovely to see people can make them know they're not alone and we can work towards a better future looking off to each other 

[00:12:28] Julie South: and rose your journey.

[00:12:31] Rose Unsworth: I think to me, the point about collaboration working together, I've worked in over 40 different veterinary practices. During my career, I started off in a practice so long ago that we rewashed our latex gloves. We sterilized them. Nothing was ever thrown away. Bottles, bags, needles, syringes, absolutely.

[00:12:56] Everything was used so many [00:13:00] times. Unfortunately, I still remember the joy of getting that fresh out of the box needle on day one. And the awfulness of that same needle at the end of the week after it had been sterilized and reused. So I started off with what you might call an incredibly green practice, because that was the economies of practice.

[00:13:27] At the time I've moved through stuff, getting cheaper, less valued, more disposable, and. We're currently in that place where the veterinary industry, as Francesca pointed out is incredibly wasteful. And as I go into practices, I don't see a focus on sustainable [00:14:00] business or sustainable people. It's increasing.

[00:14:08] Profit financially driven. And the key thing about this collaboration that we are trying to get going is that it's going to allow those individuals who may feel they haven't got anywhere to voice what they like to do to actually be able to tap into a group. To know that a like-minded people and to see that influence becoming normal practice standard, as opposed to the slightly weird ring that in the corner who thinks I should be less wasteful.

[00:14:56] So it's collaboration to lend strength [00:15:00] and purpose and to actually start to drive grassroots. Practice change. Can I just add something to sort of back at what rose was saying? One of the things I rose talked to about, you know, back in the day, reusing needles and things. 

[00:15:16] Francesca Brown: And even I went to the practice like that as well and washing syringes and things, but I want to be clear to our audience that it's not actually about going back to reusing needles and reusing syringes at all, because we know that that wasn't there.

[00:15:30] So we were trying to be less wasteful and save resources and save money. But it's like looking for alternatives. How do we make sure that the needles don't all go to landfill or the syringes, don't all go to landfill. What do we do about it? You know, and, uh, reusing the property. Isn't the answer, um, for health and safety reasons and practicality, and that the needles on the animals, that's just a welfare issue for reusing it, needles that.

[00:15:54] They might be some other opportunities, you know, so we know in the U S that the volume of a syringe [00:16:00] juice is such that, that they actually can go around and collect them. And they, they recycle, they recycle into what is effectively a non recyclable product. Um, like some recycling here is going into fence post sort of still an induced thing.

[00:16:14] It's, it's down cycling, but it's better than landfill for a start. And I think, um, you know, rose you're right. We did shift from trying to be really mindful of resources. And I think our grandparents and things were very mindful of resources. They weren't freely available and then suddenly. Everything was just available and we didn't think about it.

[00:16:30] Oh yeah. And then health and safety came and go, oh, we can't do that because it's not health. It's not adhering to health and safety. Wow. 

[00:16:35] Julie South: Tell me about this group. The three vets we have on this group on this call right now. Are you the group or is there others who couldn't join us? And how did it like whose idea what, what conversation started it?

[00:16:51] When was it born? 

[00:16:52] Liza Schneider: Well, it's been going on in the background for a while, uh, rose and lie, or on the [00:17:00] committee of the complimentary veterinary medicine branch of New Zealand association. And while some of our colleagues think that we're just a bunch of hippies using complimentary therapies, and there's a much bigger picture involved in the reason of why we.

[00:17:12] And that's for a sustainable approach to healthcare using our resources wisely and getting to the root of the problem of health. And that extends into having a healthy environment. So from our perspective, that's been part of our ethos for a long time. And without newsletter that goes out to our college.

[00:17:30] Many years ago, we asked Francesca to write a paper for us about environmental sustainability, because it's, it's a central focus of that. And Francesca contributed as a group wonderful paper. And so we've kept in touch over the years. And a couple of years ago, Francesca used arbitrary practice, holistic Bates as part of his study.

[00:17:49] And we rekindled our excitement and, uh, of course, very motivated about what can we do to help our environment. And from there. I think for both of us, [00:18:00] we started to just put out feelers into our industry. And we started to collect people around us who were interested in ideas of what they could do in their re practices, in an industry to help, to look after our environment and improve the sustainable practices.

[00:18:15] And so we started to create relationships with Bates and industry with them, CJ. Who's the Vitek who runs the green team at Massey university and several other gates in Vitex out there and practice. We meet regularly online and we chat over email and we have various things and, and, and, um, um, um, different strategies that are in play at the moment in different projects, which is very exciting.

[00:18:41] Rose Unsworth: I was just collecting my thoughts about it and was about to say that part of the thing that Lisa alluded to with a complimentary veterinary med medicine branch is that as part of my. Proposing Lisa for one of the New Zealand veterinary [00:19:00] associations awards. Then I did a lot of looking into New Zealand, veterans associations, goals, missions, and 2030.

[00:19:10] They have very, very clear objectives as to where they want to be with reference to one health, environmental sustainability Lisa's practice, philosophy, missions, and goals fit in. Perfect. With that. So for me, it started to be about working towards a specific goal that the veterinary association had. I'm looking at how individuals within the profession also had similar missions objectives, and then starting to try to bring those people into the group.

[00:19:54] The start to see the current New Zealand Betony [00:20:00] associations members advisory group, which Lisa is now part of start to work towards that 2030 goal. So one group interfaces with another group and collaboration. To get to that end. 

[00:20:27] Julie South: Francesca.

[00:20:28] Francesca Brown: So maybe I'll tell a little story here. Um, I'm not sure if it's quite an order, but they can 2009.

[00:20:34] I think it was when I was working at Otago Polytech, they took on a framework of sustainable practice and it was kind of, yeah, that's really me. I'm really conscious of environment. I really care. And so I stuck my hand up and said, uh, yeah, I'll be the sustainability champion for the school of witnessing.

[00:20:50] Not really knowing anything about what. Kind of signing up for, and they, um, that lead me on to, uh, doing a graduate diploma, sustainable practice, because it was between [00:21:00] 2012 and 2015. And in that time I tried, I set up a Facebook page called future focus bit, but I was very much trying to do it on my own.

[00:21:08] And I struggle, you know, I'd get people to join our cars, my students to join. My lovely staff would join and thanks, but I struggled to get. I didn't have the time and resource to put, you know, regular things on there. And I struggled to get engagement when I did. And so it kind of be able to weigh there until, as Lisa pointed out, we rekindled our kind of connection went, oh, we need to get a group together to look at environmental sustainability and sort of encourage it.

[00:21:33] And I see, well, I've actually got this group who really with a few hundred members, so maybe we could just rename that and actually use that as a stepping stone. Yeah. You know, we've done that and we've got CJ involved in running our social media, but more so that it's a bit more active. So rather than, and this comes down to the collaboration thing one, rather than one person trying to do it all and doing a really poor job collaboratively, we can meet lots of different [00:22:00] needs.

[00:22:00] Yeah. The other thing I wanted to mention as well around this kind of journey is, and part of my sort of interest in and the interest. I take a apart, having a framework around this back in 2016, when I was. Part of a national redevelopment of programs. I managed to get sustainable practice and as an overarching theme and all of the allied professional programs, they've just been renewed again and that's staying in there.

[00:22:23] So there's this real drive to actually make sure that it's three to throughout education and the allied veterinary professional space as well. So we're going to have graduates coming out, going. I want to do something. In that space. Um, and so hopefully they'll find if I can't find that connection and the practices it's already been alluded to, they can hopefully find connection with us.

[00:22:44] So this is absolutely not about vets. It's about that. The veterinary professional, the veterinary I'm sick, the whole sector, the whole industry. Francesca. Can you remember the name of your Facebook group and can anybody do. Uh, we're about to rebrand it to get out. [00:23:00] So it's currently called sustainable vet practice, New Zealand, and it's going to be rebranded as sustain of it shortly.

[00:23:09] Rose Unsworth: I'd just like to come in at this point in time, Julie, and perhaps add that we are going through a process of rebranding as sustain vet and part of that rebranding promotion, for lack of a better way of putting it is that we have. Exhibit a stand at the veterinary association conference in November where people can actually start to engage to look at some of the resources and to also see some of the efforts, steps that other practices and some businesses within the industry are actually taking.

[00:23:53] And that's been again, that sort of. Started the ball rolling. [00:24:00] And it starting to really, really take off. We will have an increasingly meaningful presence within the veterinary profession. By the end of the year. 

[00:24:14] Julie South: Are you still considered? Aging

[00:24:21] Julie, over the 

[00:24:22] Liza Schneider: years, we've done a lot of work to demonstrate that by integrating innovative and common sense strategies into veterinary practice, such as nutraceuticals acupuncture, herbal medicine, which now have a solid scientific basis, it hasn't been back. Been hippies. Fine to do everything that we can to look, offer the key for our patients and our clients and our environment.

[00:24:44] And we've done everything in our power to help to demonstrate that when you do that in a professional way, it can be incredible to improve patient outcomes, flying satisfaction and even job fulfillment. So we like to think that we've transitioned [00:25:00] beyond being considered just a bunch of hippies, but everything's relative, there's different strokes for different folks.

[00:25:07] Francesca Brown: Yeah, some of it is they're developing that understanding around water, sustainable practice as well. So it's not, it's more than just saving trees or, or not driving a car. There's a whole pile of other things around it. And it builds and you know, the wellbeing of our animals and our people as well. And so, and our sustainability bit logo.

[00:25:31] We, uh, we are focusing on the words, people, animals, and environment, because we want to make sure people understand that it's all of those things. I think some people do still think it's just tree-hugging Ballou Lee or something like that. But I think increasingly I think across the generations, people are understanding we cannot go on like we are, and there's lots of changes.

[00:25:51] We can't treat our people like we have done. You know, driving our cows, Willy nilly, we can't keep chopping down trees. We've got to [00:26:00] question when we're bringing in loads and loads of things from overseas and plastic bags, you know, we've got to question all of those things and, um, I think everybody's starting to ask those questions now.

[00:26:10] Um, they don't think of it as just hippies hugging trees. 

[00:26:15] Rose Unsworth: We're really looking for is to see sustainability as normal practice. No. Something outside of no of routine. It's about, this is now the new normal that we need to get to. It's not oddballs greens, whatever words you want to attach. This is people in the real world striving to make change, to keep that world for Archer.

[00:26:51] Liza Schneider: This is the important point. Mike is there. Anymore. The weird thing that's done out in business, this is [00:27:00] mainstream responsible businesses care about the environment and responsible businesses care about their people. So it's just bringing that to the veterinary industry where, um, ironically we've been slow to change.

[00:27:11] And, uh, I say it ironically, because as vets we're all taught how important it is to consider environmental health when it comes to looking after the health about our patients and. Because we sit in the syndrome, then one health, one, all of the health of animals, humans, and the environmental interconnected.

[00:27:28] We've got this amazing opportunity to step up and potentially help to. 

[00:27:33] Francesca Brown: So it's really good financially for businesses. Um, it's an opportunity for marketing to show people that you care because clients want to go to businesses that care. A lot of the changes will actually reduce business costs. And if they think of a spear simple one, like changing your light bulbs from old fashioned ones to LEDs can reduce your POWERbot by around 80%.

[00:27:55] But there's a saving like that. Plus you're doing the right thing. Um, it's really good [00:28:00] for attracting, um, personnel to the business as well. So there's lots of literature out there that will show you that when people are looking to go and work for a company or a business, they want to look for one, they would prefer to go and work for one that cares.

[00:28:13] And I've got some comparative literature now that collected through my master's from Vic clinics as well. And it certainly showed that apart from lasers clinic, where it shows. We really want you to do it in the clinic of doing it. Most of the other city, we really want our clinic to do it, but they're not.

[00:28:27] Julie South: I did a podcast a few months back on what, how to get more bang for your advertising, your recruitment advertising back. And it was to showcase all that's good about your clinic, the part of the showcases, you know, how do you look after your staff? What are you doing to bring about change and. Be nice to the planet.

[00:28:51] Why do you think Liza said that clinics are Vietcong the veterinary sector? I think it was Liza said that the veterinary [00:29:00] sector was slow to come on board with sustainability. Why do you think that is as a, see the sector as a whole. 

[00:29:09] Liza Schneider: It's definitely a number of factors that play a role. And as Francesca has demonstrated at the needs of people being met are paramount.

[00:29:17] And we know in veterinary practice that in some clinics are not being met and unfortunately others they're trying to meet them. But our industry is under such a lot of strain at the moment. It's really difficult to step out and do things that are. But also the nature of it is that we're risk averse, perfectionist.

[00:29:35] We want to have everything perfect. We want to know that there's a double blind, randomized placebo controlled study that verifies and acknowledges that if we do X, Y, Z, we have the recipe to success. And the reality here is that it's not black and white. It's plenty shades of gray and that the little things make a big difference.

[00:29:52] All you've got to do is start somewhere and just take that step. And that's what we're here to help people to know is that those little [00:30:00] things can make a big difference. If all you've got to do is just start with one little thing, perfect. Seek to bring the, 

[00:30:06] Julie South: do rose or Francesca, have anything to add to that.

[00:30:10] Francesca Brown: All right. I just pick up on laser's point about Vic's being really busy. They're so busy doing the job and fixing the animals that they don't have time to get out of the rabbit hole and actually look at the bigger picture. And I think one of my messages from that would be. It's an owner of a practice.

[00:30:26] You don't actually have to do it, or you don't have to have the solutions. What you can do is task it to your team. There'll be someone in your team that wants to pick up the mantle and take a leadership role. And if you just let go and let that person have it, you know, they can actually start making the changes without adding to the own.

[00:30:43] Oh, I've got another thing I've got to do now. Now I've got to care for the environment. Actually, the team can be part of the solution. 

[00:30:48] Rose Unsworth: I'd agree completely with you on that one. And that's part of. The concept of the stand that we are hoping to have a conference is to give people [00:31:00] a instant, easy steps that you can take right now that aren't going to necessarily cost you a huge amount of money.

[00:31:12] They will require some investment time-wise, but it's a, you can start writing. No. Great big issues, no huge amount of anything. Just look at six, shall we say simple steps, all of which you can take home today. And all of which within two to three months will mean that your practice has actually started committing to sustainability.

[00:31:41] We're here to get everyone working to do the hard yards to flip. Straightforward quick solutions to start you off with. And then we're going to get you feeding back in [00:32:00] as you grow your own sustainability systems, paths, whatever words. 

[00:32:07] Julie South: So picking up on what the three of you have seen, what, especially.

[00:32:13] Collect was Liza's , double blind, random testing, perfectionism the hole for somebody sitting on the outside. That has absolutely no idea where to start. It's just all too big. I have to do it. Perfect. I have to do it right. How, I guess, for the three of you, as veterinarians who have had. Indoctrinated into you, right from the word go.

[00:32:41] How did you get away from the perfectionism to just start somewhere? And how would you, or where would you suggest that your peers and your colleagues? I mean, Francesca has said start delegating, start asking task. Somebody [00:33:00] find out who wants to do it. How did you get away from the perfectionism for this little bit of your life?

[00:33:07] Liza Schneider: Collaboration is key after. So love the journey with our team, where we know that looking after the environment is important, but we just put it out there. And when you just make that space available, the team steps up with options. One of our, our team, our heat nurses created a gorgeous veggie garden. The other nurses have kind of gone, Hey, look at all these synthetic cotton swabs that we just have to, or synthetic and cots for that we have to just check into landfill.

[00:33:32] What if we use compostable swabs for some of the things that we do, we can reduce our landfill son of God. Look at this kitty litter that we're using. What if we get compostable kitty, literally we can get an industrial composting company to come and collect our compost regularly. Oh, gosh, look at these big plastic bags that come with them, the food that we order for our patients, what can we do with them?

[00:33:54] Or let's use that to prop the, the animals into that have to go for cremation. So at least there's an [00:34:00] additional purposes then of just propping it into waste. And these little things add up and it gives the team such a boost that they were all because we all are acknowledged for the positive contribution that we make.

[00:34:10] And it's just us attitude changes and wanting to. You have the opportunity 

[00:34:15] Julie South: , how did you get over your perfectionism? 

[00:34:18] Rose Unsworth: I gave birth to twins 32 years ago. And at that moment in time, I realized that if I was going to continue with my impossible standards, that I would kill myself, my children or my husband.

[00:34:35] It was simple as that. And that was my first step on. Path of realization, but perfectionism is something that you may need to take a step back from in order to cope with the reality of life. And [00:35:00] that was probably for me, the light bulb moment. And as always, you learn something in one aspect of your life.

[00:35:11] That you then take those skills and transfer them into other aspects of your life. And that's when perfectionism took a back seat, shall we say? And I started being able to deal more with practical reality. 

[00:35:30] Julie South: Francesca?. 

[00:35:31] Francesca Brown: So I guess 

[00:35:32] I'd start with, I've actually never been a perfectionist, but what it took me a long time to realize was that it took sets that I'm not really good at details, but in all aspects of my life, I'd ended up kind of in leadership roles where people sort of expect people, Fran will do that.

[00:35:47] I'm afraid we'll do that. You know, like sort of take a lead on it and how. So, what I learned was actually it was okay to be like that and I didn't have to finish the job and do everything to the finest detail. I could actually set up a bit higher and be [00:36:00] more of a conductor, I guess. And so what I've learnt in is how to engage the rest of the team or to engage other people, to help with the solutions, which I don't always have the answers to, but then I can go, right.

[00:36:12] Well let's, how are we going to make that work? How are things going to come forward? And so I would sort of pick up. What Lisa said again, I would go back to the question of how do we engage the team? What do we do? I would start with a team brainstorm. What do you think some of the things that we could do, or they might come up with a list of 20 things and then as a team go, well, let's narrow that down.

[00:36:32] What are the three things that are the lowest hanging fruit that are going to be easy for us to do and quick to implement? And then we set goals on those and then we come back and we say, right at this point, we're going with. McDonald knows where it's now become business as usual. And then we'll go, right.

[00:36:46] Let's have a look. What's the list now what's next. And then move on like that. So do it in chunks, um, set targets, and I would knock at those targets. So it tell, tell your clients that we're going to stop [00:37:00] using swabs that go into landfill. We're going to use compostable swabs. And then we can say in a month we reduced it by this much.

[00:37:06] We were just about as much and tell the client, you might think it's a tiny thing you're doing. It's a big thing and you've made a big step and then you might have something else going on on the side. I know one practice who decided they were going to stop having rubbish snacks in the clinic. So instead of feeding their staff on chocolate and lollies and cakes, while they were busy, they started putting fruit bowls and bowls and things around, and that's a sustainable.

[00:37:34] Because you're looking after the health of your staff, you know, and that's a really good thing that you could, you know, you could advertise us, you know, market to your clients as well about this is another great thing we've done too. So there's lots of little opportunities, easy to implement can be done, like roasted right here right now.

[00:37:50] Julie South: And I think it's important to, for people to realize that this is a. It's, it's [00:38:00] not you, you suddenly become sustainable. So therefore you can stop because there will be something else that can, that you can implement and change and, and shift and move. Francesca. What have you learned on your journey or discover?

[00:38:17] Francesca Brown: It's the people aren't happy and comfortable in valued and well looked after. It's really difficult to look after the environment. And I think that's probably the number one key thing that I would keep coming back to. So it might be that for a number of areas, the first journey is actually to focus on meeting the people's needs.

[00:38:39] Julie South: And we've had this conversation before listeners. I will put you to point you to a Francesca. Two episodes on that. There'll be in the show notes for this Liza? . What's your, your aha on this journey so far? 

[00:38:57] Liza Schneider: Oh, I just, I just loved this collaboration [00:39:00] for years. I felt isolated in my practice trying to do these things that were important to me for our practice.

[00:39:06] Um, my staff would do. I mean some of these things, but some of them were grudgingly and they didn't really understand the bigger vision and the bigger picture. And now it's become mainstream. And it's so exciting to have this opportunity to work with incredible people like Francesca and rose and CJM and others that are part of that group.

[00:39:24] And to find more and more people in our industry and in our profession who care and all they need is a little bit of support to help, to make a difference. And, uh, yeah, for, for me, the penny has dropped that, that our profession that's so exciting because we are at the center of this one health model.

[00:39:41] Our planet is in desperate need of help. It's um, this so much awful stuff going out. We've got going on out there. It's unsustainable. We've done step up and make a difference. We're going to be stuck. So. Capitalize on this opportunity and work together and collaborate. We can really make a meaningful difference.

[00:39:58] And in our industry, [00:40:00] we capture people's hearts. When we work with animals and we hope to improve their health and we make the little flunkies better, or we help with farming to improve productivity and efficiency. Yeah, it helps people. And if we can look after the environment as well and inspire our people, the stuff that Francesca was alluding to earlier of how you share that with your clients, clients love that when you demonstrate that you care, that is an incredible way to afford.

[00:40:25] Rose Unsworth: As always, I just always have to take a couple of seconds to sort of put myself back into the zone after, after Lisa's absolute passion, but comes out with that. But to me, what I'm going through at this moment in time is that I finally feel as though I've been a little bit of a voice in the wilderness, both.

[00:40:52] With reference to colleagues, businesses, the world in general. And over the [00:41:00] past few months with being involved in this group, I've actually started to rediscover that there's an intense amount of Goodwill and caring out there in our industry. And the people are almost coming out of the woodwork.

[00:41:20] Putting their hands up and saying, actually I've always had that, want to do something. And it's really nice to find people that I can start to work with and put forward stuff and actually get that stuff listened to and something done about it or done. With it, I've been overwhelmed by the number of people who are putting their hands up to be involved in our conference.

[00:41:57] Stand to be part of the [00:42:00] launch of sustain a bet. Um, people that I would not necessarily have expected to. So that's, to me has been the really big moving forward where I've come from. Within a very, very short period of time. It's strength in numbers, stronger together, which is the theme of the Anset VA conference this year.

[00:42:29] And we're really starting to see that. Through, 

[00:42:34] Julie South: I would like to just support what Francesca said about as the marketer in me, it's like shout what you're doing from the rooftops. Because even if it's something you think it's something small, it's the little bits that gain momentum and then get speed behind them and your patients, your clients will want to know and will want to get.[00:43:00] 

[00:43:00] Behind you as well in support. You also, like Francesca said, you can measure what you're doing. You know, if you're not using, if you're no longer using, I dunno, however many hundreds of something and you've dropped it down to 10, they can see progress and you can see progress and your team can see progress as well.

[00:43:18] How many people, how many clinics are sustainable in some form or another, do you think having have a little bit of sustainability and. 

[00:43:29] Francesca Brown: Yeah, I think it's really important, Julie, to be really clear about sustainability. I guess we should stop thinking that the word sustainable. It's an endpoint that we're working to rate.

[00:43:41] I think there's many clinics out there doing things to making journeys towards being more sustainable, but there isn't an end point on the journey. And actually there's a model that looks at beyond sustainable as also sustainable. When are. Absolutely it, uh, you know, if you had a graph, you know, you're [00:44:00] right at zero, zero, but actually beyond that, we were doing positive things.

[00:44:03] So we're planting more trees than me repping out as an, as a, as a sort of a clear example, but there's, you know, lots of other things, you know, Lisa talked about having a garden where you could actually have some sort of loving, uh, loving garden on it, on the campus that had tiger politic. We have fruit trees and vegetables and berries and things growing.

[00:44:22] We everybody can come in. It doesn't matter if you're a politics student or not and harvest, and wouldn't it be great. And that would be, that's kind of regenerating, it's providing food for the community. So that's a, that's a way of even going beyond sustainable, doing something extra. So I think, yeah, we just need to be really careful about the language that it's, it's fully a journey there.

[00:44:41] Isn't an. We're each time doing things better. And I think the majority of clinics are doing small things and then there's other clinics that are really making it a big focus like Liza's clinic. 

[00:44:52] Julie South: I personally get stuck on the word sustainable. When I was listening to the three of you before, what comes to [00:45:00] mind is.

[00:45:01] Responsible. There's a, a responsibility, corporate responsibility, personal responsibility, employer responsibility, employee responsibility, as opposed to being irresponsible and dumping and wasting. If somebody wants to call one of you to have a chat, where's the best way to do that. 

[00:45:26] Francesca Brown: Yeah, I'm more, I'm more than happy for people to contact me.

[00:45:28] It's probably easiest to email first. And then if we're going to chat, then we can Jack up a time that suits penny that's been dropping for me recently that we chatted about last week. 

[00:45:37] Liza Schneider: Julie, that might be handy to reiterate here is that, um, the concurrent. Values are helpful where ultimately for animal health, the health of people, the health, the environment, all of those will lead back to those aspects of caring about each other, about the animals, about the environment, and that evolves into consideration, which evolves into [00:46:00] compassion and which involves having respect for all of those and ultimately acting with kindness as roses.

[00:46:08] Th that seems to be a big part of the sustainable future is if we act with kindness, that's going to get us to a good place. 

[00:46:16] Rose Unsworth: I'd just like to point out at this moment, Lisa, that it was actually just a burn who said, be kind, thank you for describing it to me, but I'm pretty certain it was the prime minister.

[00:46:27] However would like to say that, I think she's got that one. Right. Being kind, doing kind. If you can't say anything now, Don't say anything at all. It's all about. 

[00:46:44] Liza Schneider: That's really interesting, interesting to me, I guess, because the old business model was, you know, kindness is a lot of nonsense. You just get, try on it's all about making money and egos.

[00:46:53] And ultimately we're proving that to be incorrect. If you can act with kindness, bending yourself, then your team charge [00:47:00] appropriately, you can be successful, but success is not about making money. Success is about being fulfilled and helping others to be fulfilled the most sustainable way. 

[00:47:11] Julie South: You can look after your staff has to pay them.

[00:47:19] Francesca Brown: Well, as one of the things, isn't it. So you still, you can't pay them well and treat them badly, correct? Yes. True. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But it's certainly one of the key things is yeah, they need to have their basic needs met. They need to be able to pay the rent and eat the food and put food on the table. 

[00:47:38] Liza Schneider: It's about the people that you attract to work with you.

[00:47:41] And again, you haven't congruent. And there are some that have values that are very materialistic and that are not sustainable. And there are those that really care about a sustainable model, ensuring that our environment is looked after people are treated Nastia animals are looked off to mask as well, and that's not inherent in everyone.

[00:47:59] Um, [00:48:00] growing up practice from the boot of my car and having to learn how to manage people and manage staff, and certainly needs a steep learning curve in understanding who you are. And for our theme, it's attracting people who have compliment values here about the environment can use their resources wisely and, uh, work together as part of a team.

[00:48:20] Julie South: How, how big is your the core, the committee of the group? I don't like that word, but yeah, 

[00:48:26] Francesca Brown: we're still really in the forming stage. So we've probably got about 15 odd people on our list, but we probably only about eight of us that are really. Regularly engaging at this point, but the other people that want to be involved, it's just taught, you know, time is the issue for all of us.

[00:48:41] And we're all busy people and, you know, give a, give a job to someone who has give it to a busy person. 

[00:48:46] Rose Unsworth: I just like to interrupt at this point, Julie, because you were talking about the sort of gender difference and what involvement we've got. I have just had a male colleague [00:49:00] whom. Met through this group, actually just put his hand up right now and say, I would be really interested in doing a podcast.

[00:49:12] Interview. So there you are. We are influencing change already. We've got a man on board. Good. 

[00:49:21] Julie South: I will also like with indie vets, you know, I'm talking about indie vets at every opportunity that I can, when I'm talking with clinics and, and vets around the country, I will also reference this group as well.

[00:49:37] And as I'm sitting here, I can think of a few clinics there. I mean, I don't even know whether the, uh, the members yeah. There's a lot of people out there it's just about connecting and empowering and handshaking, you know, so people can spread, spread the word. 

[00:49:57] Francesca Brown: part of having some presence at conference and getting some posters [00:50:00] and sharing things.

[00:50:00] Or so we actually start building that group in the communication together. Yeah.

[00:50:06] Rose Unsworth: I have a conference we'd potentially have 600 delegates who are all going to walk past our stand and be made aware of our existence and be made aware of the opportunities that they actually have to start to work with.

[00:50:25] Like-minded colleagues have 600 people registered rows. No, this is what we are. . Hoping for five to 600 delegates is what they are hoping for. That's their expectations. And that's really, from our perspective, our marketing opportunity to get out there, put ourselves out there and actually. Yeah, [00:51:00] sell ourselves because yeah.

[00:51:03] Julie South: What, what I will do is create the poster. Like I see it and I will also create some, some DL handouts for you to give away because not everybody, it drove home to me the other day. I thought everybody knew how to drive QR codes because I've been using QR codes for oh gosh, 12 or 15 years. And, but not everybody does everybody thinks QR code.

[00:51:27] You can only use them. Yeah. Skinning into her building. Yeah. So I, I will put some instructions on, on this DL handout, how to get a QR code on your phone. What did you know where to go to the app store or the play store? And if that's too much trouble, I'll put a short link so that people can get. You know, they just type it in the short link rather than scan.

[00:51:52] And then you can give, give these away as well. You know, you can hand them out and it will have the, as many podcasts as I can [00:52:00] produce on, on there as well. It's amazing, 

[00:52:03] Francesca Brown: Julie, I'd say, yeah, that would be really appreciated because 

[00:52:06] Rose Unsworth: I think we ought to assume that everyone has the same level of technological skills and that's why we've had to rely on CJ.

[00:52:16] Instagram where I I'm more, the Facebook person I can do Facebook, but Instagram is one step beyond. And again, that's part of that collaboration. It's age, wisdom, youth, a whole skill base coming together. Yeah. That's correct. Julie also, so you know, our Instagram page to print, so CJ says, and I've run a Francesca's guidance about three, three months ago.

[00:52:46] Liza Schneider: And I think we've got more than 200 followers on there and our Facebook page, we've got a good few hundred on there as well. So that gives you an idea of numbers. Good. Good. Yeah. So the aim is to, you know, hopefully through the conference and things to grow that yet to [00:53:00] get the industry really connected.

[00:53:01] Rose Unsworth: And I did make a point the other day of sending invitations to people who are my Facebook concepts to like our page. And I've actually had a very pleasant uptake from that as well. So that's, again, part of that sort of networking. Potential thank you for everything that you're doing to network us and, and to, you know, give us some leverage in our community and some exciting and wonderful.

[00:53:30] Julie South: My, my pleasure. So yeah, it feels good to be able to have. Yeah. 

[00:53:35] Rose Unsworth: And I'd actually just like to point out that, again, your involvement, Julie is part of that sort of collaboration thing, because I connected with you on a different level. And it's just part of that thing that sits there and says. Hi, we're doing this and you've come on board and said, actually, I think I can help.

[00:53:59] And [00:54:00] that's, that's, that's really part of the amazing strengths and growth that I'm seeing as we work through. This one is that people, as I said, are putting their hands up and saying, actually there is something I can do. And on that basis, Thank you very, very much, Julie. We really appreciate you. You're very welcome.

[00:54:23] Julie South: When you sent me their email and you said, you know, can I put a P can I contribute a person? I was like, oh my gosh, here I am. I do everything on zoom. I don't get it. I don't print anything. How can I be any more sustainable than I am? And there's only me and two others. And we all meet by zoom. And then the idea came, so yeah.

[00:54:45] Francesca Brown: It's yeah, no, it's awesome. Ready. I will produce this. I will look forward to, to getting this out and spreading the word and seeing where it goes. So thank you all for your time. Thank you. I hope that [00:55:00] collaborative approach worked for you. It's a learning, we'll say. Yeah, 

[00:55:06] Julie South: I hope you found this informative and you want to know more.

[00:55:12] Starting or furthering your own journey towards sustainability at your clinic, please visit paws claws, wet noses dot F M episode 49 for all the contact details and the links for more information tune in next week, where we'll catch up with Dr. Leeza Schneider, who was one of the vets on today's. Thank you again for sharing the last hour or so of your life with me.

[00:55:41] I really, truly duly appreciate Dooley. I do that every time. I really truly do appreciate it. I'm always up for feedback of all sorts. If you've got a topic you'd like me to cover, then please let me know if you've got a regular segment you'd like me to add, then [00:56:00] please let me know. And if you haven't done so yet, click that follow button wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts, it's free, which means it doesn't cost you a cent and means that you will never miss out on an episode as your podcast channel of choice will always feed it straight into your feed.

[00:56:21] And do your podcast fade. This is Julie south signing off take care and God bless paws, claws and wet noses is sponsored by vet staff. If you've never heard of it, staff it's new, Zealand's only full service. Recruitment agency, 100% dedicated to the veterinary sector and fit staff has been around since 2015 and works nationwide from Katerina to the bluff and everywhere in between as well as helping Kiwis fits.

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