Episode 97: How Parents Can Stay Strong, Active and Painfree for Life with Ben Barker

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• Joe Gambino
• Joe LaVacca

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Summary

In this episode, Ben Barker, a fitness coach and proud dad, shares his philosophy on fitness, longevity, and balancing family life. 

He discusses practical training tips for busy dads, the importance of community, and how faith and purpose influence his approach to health.

Takeaways

• Training philosophy for busy dads
• Importance of strength and functional fitness
• Balancing injuries and training adjustments
• Role of faith and community in health
• Short workouts and consistency for long-term results
• The significance of sprinting and active lifestyle
• Setting realistic fitness standards for dads
• Addressing client misconceptions about longevity and fitness
• The impact of social environment on health habits

Transcript

Joe Gambino (00:00)
Welcome back into the Beyond Pain podcast. am one of your hosts, Joe Gambino. I'm here with our other host, Joe Lavaca. And today we have a special guest, Ben Barker, a fitness coach out of Little Rock, Arkansas. We just learned, well, I already knew this from your screen, the fittest dad in his neighborhood. Welcome to the show, my friend.

Ben Barker (00:21)
Thanks for having me, I'm pumped to get into it today.

Joe Gambino (00:26)
Why don't you take the floor and tell our listeners a little bit more about you and how you help dads.

Ben Barker (00:32)
Man, so I'm just, am a very normal average athleticism dad, father of four and a husband. And man, my goal just kind of just to show dads that, man, you don't have to let your fitness go. You don't have to be, you know, past your prime. Cause I think there's like a prime at every age. Cause you know, like 50 is going to be very different for us than 30 is, but to be at the fittest level possible when I'm 50, the fittest level possible when I'm 60.

That's kind of the goal. And if you can be like in the top 1 % for your age group or your type of life or your wherever you're at in life, like that's ultimately the goal and just showing dads what's kind of possible through each phase of life.

Joe Gambino (01:11)
I love that.

Joe LaVacca (01:12)
How did

the dad group specifically become important to you, Ben? I mean, I know you're a dad yourself, but was there ⁓ another impetus at whether it be from your father or grandfather or people that you know that really kind of sparked your desire and passion to help this group?

Ben Barker (01:28)
Man, I feel like it's easiest to help people that you're most familiar with. Like, you know, I've never carried a baby for nine months. So I don't feel like moms are my group specifically, right? But like, I understand what it's like to be like the support figure in that scenario and to try to stay fit throughout. And it kind of started as a joke. Like one day I was like walking through the neighborhood because I started like my, was having trouble with sleep, right? And so I started like figuring out, know, if I got sunlight earlier in

the

day, you know, I slept better. And so was getting out early in the mornings and like doing a walk without my shirt on. And like one day I flipped the camera on and I was like, hey fellas, if you want to be the, the fittest dad on the block, the neighborhood alpha dad, no shoe, no shirt, no shoes and a hat that doesn't quit and remind the neighbors that you're the fittest dad on the block. And it kind of just blew up.

Joe Gambino (02:09)
.

Joe LaVacca (02:19)
I love that, man. I love that.

Joe Gambino (02:19)
That's it, man. The one post that changed everything, right? That's awesome. ⁓ I'm going to break the turn of thought here for a second because there's one question we have to ask you on this podcast, and that is how you take your coffee because we have this very loose coffee theme here on the show.

Ben Barker (02:22)
Yeah.

Let's do it. Yep.

That's a great question, probably the most important thing we'll talk about today. At home, I always make a pour over and drink it black, you know, as a man should. ⁓

Joe LaVacca (02:47)
⁓ man, ow,

Joe Gambino (02:48)
Ooh,

he's dropping the line. Not only you shoot Joe down like that, but also Joe learns in this podcast that he needs to step up his coffee game every guest we have.

Joe LaVacca (02:48)
Ben! Wow, yikes, arrow right through the heart in the opening five minutes of the pod, man. Oosh.

Ben Barker (02:53)
Ha

Come on, Joe.

Joe LaVacca (03:04)
I know, I know man, I'm sorry. And you know what, actually, I didn't mind letting Joe Gambino down, but there's something deeply like personal to me about letting you down, Ben. And I've only known you for a few minutes, but I already feel like I'm on Amazon today. I'm buying a pour over. I'm going to start making my cold brew coffee because I've been telling Joe Gambino I was going to do that for some time. I think today is the spark. Today is the spark for me. Thank you, Ben.

Ben Barker (03:19)
There we go.

Let's go. I believe in you. And we're

Joe Gambino (03:26)
There you go.

Ben Barker (03:28)
going to expect a follow up on this to see how it's going.

Joe LaVacca (03:31)
When we have part when you have you on part for part two, ⁓ I hope to actually start with like a pan of my whole setup. And then you know, that'll maybe be the opening shot of the podcast that day. So thank you for thank you for sparking.

Ben Barker (03:42)
Let's go. I'm here for you.

Joe Gambino (03:46)
There you go. Love

it. Leadership at its finest there, Ben. So let's start here. How would you? What's kind of like a two part question here in a sense, how would you define your training philosophy? And then if you have had any major injuries in your life that may have like you've had to work through it, how's that changed your philosophy at any point in time?

Ben Barker (04:08)
Yep. So.

My training philosophy is gonna, I think, lends itself to just the average dad, right? Not training for like a very specific goal. Like, so if you're training for an Ironman, you you have to get a little more specific or if you're training, like I did an event about a month ago that was basically like an NFL combine. So my training got a little more specialized and specific during that time. But overall, I keep it general. So each workout, I try to do something explosive. Then I do my strength work.

I do a little bit of what I would call like cardio work, right? And then I do ⁓ like to look good, right? Hypertrophy work at the end. it goes like explosive, strength work, like your cardio kind of athletic base and then vanity at the end of the workout. And that's basically how I structure each day. ⁓ I found, ⁓ I started doing jujitsu about a year ago and I was still trying to do my normal training on top of that. So I was lifting five days a week plus jujitsu two days a

and then I felt like I got hit by a truck every day when I woke up and so kind of depending on what you've got going on you've got to structure it a little bit differently so about a year ago I switched to three full-body workouts per week I've always hated full-body workouts I don't necessarily enjoy it but I find for like for busy parents full-body workouts make a lot of sense and it's just like if you miss a day it makes it easier to make it up you don't have to restructure

Joe LaVacca (05:32)
Yeah.

Ben Barker (05:39)
So I would just encourage anybody if you're if you're struggling to build a fitness base even like two full-body workouts per week if you're watching your diet and like living an active lifestyle with your kids and your family are gonna go a really really long way

As far as injuries, I've struggled with an adductor injury for like 15 years. Like it's just like it comes and goes. And so I'm always aware of that. And I don't know what, I've always heard it's different for everybody. Like once I got in my thirties, I've just had like some random injuries and I feel like it's been consistent because I probably train harder than I should at times. And I didn't like taking rest days.

And so I've definitely had to adjust with that. And so I would just encourage anybody, if you train for long enough, injuries are just part of it. It's never a reason to stop training. And you just kind of have to adjust as you go. Like if I'm dealing with adductor injury, I'm just going to try to get really, really strong on my upper body during that time as I rehab the lower body injury and then vice versa. So it's like, there's almost never an excuse to completely stop training. You just have to adjust and keep moving forward.

Joe LaVacca (06:55)
I love that, Ben. I have a sort of a blended question for you with your philosophy because looking into your Instagram posts, I think you do such an incredible job at, you know, mixing what it's like to be a dad humor, and then your belief system as well, your spirituality. How has having that base of belief system, you know, passion for following Christ and I'm going to

keep that broad for everyone listening, right? Cause maybe not everyone's Christian or Catholic, but I do find that that's maybe something that's underspoken about in the health and wellness space. So how has having, you know, a belief system to anchor to, you know, really helped you even push your training philosophy and getting by with your clients, you know, maybe even further.

Ben Barker (07:40)
Yeah.

Man, there's so many parallels. it's cool that you said that to keep it broad as well, because almost like whatever your faith is, there's 100 % a parallel. And almost every faith ⁓ believes in serving your community. And I've just found, man, when you have a decent baseline of fitness, you're of better use to your family, and you're of better use to your community. And I've used this example so many times. Like a couple of years ago, we had a really bad tornado that came through Little Rock.

And was pretty cool when you got to see all the fit guys get out there pulling trees off of vehicles, stuff like that, carrying water cases, ⁓ pulling stuff out of the rubble from a house that got knocked down. So it's really cool just from a very functional standpoint when you have a decent level of fitness. I think it makes serving a little bit easier. And when there's a time that you need to go, you know, you're able to get up and go and help people. And that's kind of, think where that parallel

comes into play with each and any religion or faith.

Joe LaVacca (08:47)
Awesome. Awesome. The community aspect too, one of those things that I always try to instill in clients, know, reaching out to people, reaching out to those who can help you because that's what we're here for. So I really appreciate you sharing that Ben and again, like continue to do so in on your messaging because I feel like, you know, our community and our whole health and wellness space really needs that. So thanks, Ben.

Ben Barker (09:11)
Yeah, thank you. add on, Joe, there's a really cool, I can't reference a specific study, but there was a study done on longevity. And two of the things that they found that increased longevity was quad strength and connection, right? Which is wild. And if you think about it, man, if you build that lower body strength, you're able to be mobile, you know, when you get older. And then when you have that community connection, ⁓ like your life is full and you're able to go for longer.

Joe Gambino (09:22)
Mm.

Joe LaVacca (09:25)
Yeah.

Joe Gambino (09:37)
.

Joe LaVacca (09:40)
Yeah, for sure, man. think, you know, having purpose in life with the people around you and strong legs, right, Joe? I mean...

Ben Barker (09:47)
Yes.

Joe Gambino (09:48)
Yeah, I love it. And I mean, I see the theme on your

on your Instagram, man, that the short, you know, you have to wear the five inch shorts, right? So those all of it all comes together, you know, so I love it. So so kind of going on this, you mentioned better health, better use of your community. So what would you say are some like non negotiables ⁓ in your health and fitness journey? And how could a dad who maybe wants to get started or maybe struggling with some pain and trying

Joe LaVacca (09:55)
Ugh.

Ben Barker (09:57)
it.

Man.

So if I had to choose one facet of fitness for me, it's just strength training, right? And I had this happen, I think it was last Friday, I had this big glorious workout plan and just everything with work and family went wrong that day. And so ended up, I had about an hour and 15 minute workout I wanted to do and I had 30 minutes. And I'm just like, so I could go through this with very low quality and just try to squeeze everything in

I can pick the most important parts.

and just get it in. And I saw a post about this on Instagram today. It was something like, you know, one workout per week is better than zero workouts and 10 minutes of working out is better than zero minutes of working out. that day I was like, you know what? I've got my barbell strength work. And for me, I felt like that was what was most important that day. So I got in, I got in my squats. I did some weighted chin ups. I did dumbbell incline press and I did some heavy RDLs. And, you know, part of me felt disappointed

Joe Gambino (11:00)
Mm.

Ben Barker (11:22)
But I went in there, I did it with intensity, I got in what I could, and I moved on with my day. And you'll find over time, over the course of maybe a month, you may not feel like you get a lot from three 30-minute workouts, but if you consistently do that over 10 years and then you get in the really good ones when you can, it's all gonna kinda come out in the wash. And especially if you've been training for a long time, like all of us have, it's like one workout that's not quite as good as you'd hoped it would be,

Joe Gambino (11:42)
Mm-hmm.

Ben Barker (11:52)
That's

just like a drop in the bucket. So if you can just get consistent with that and your strength work over the long term, it's massive.

Joe Gambino (11:54)
Hmm.

Yeah, I agree with that. love that. think consistency is probably like the biggest thing for anybody who's trying to be on any sort of health or any journey really, right? And being able to check off the boxes is just as important as everything else. And we've talked about this on the podcast a ton with just get in and do it. The more that you do it, even like my, like, you know, I have the same thing, like some of my mornings get cut short with the kids and stuff like that with my workouts.

And I just think of it as stress, right? Like I get some stress into my body this day. Maybe like I know my workout might get shorter. I might push the intensity on like my first whatever exercise is a little bit more to just stimulate my body and then I'm done. Yeah, maybe I feel disappointed I didn't get all in. I think that that's kind of a natural inkling for us. But at the end of the day, I know I did some work in the next day and the next day and the consistency is what's going to drive things for you.

Ben Barker (12:49)
100 % and then another non-negotiable for me is sprinting once per week. It's gonna look a little bit different for everybody and like for instance, like I've also had an Achilles issue going on and As I was preparing for that event about a month ago I just decided I was gonna chance it and I was gonna continue sprinting and doing my jumps and everything and just hope for the best But once that competition was over, I was like, alright I gotta I gotta let this I gotta let this heal and so I'm still getting

Joe Gambino (12:55)
Mm-hmm.

Ben Barker (13:19)
in my sprints but I'm doing it on a rower right now right lower impact and just doing short sprints on the rower I don't have an assault bike but if you had an assault bike or a pool that'd be a great way you could get in sprints as well and so it's gonna look a little bit different for everybody but I think getting in those sprints once per week is absolutely massive

Joe LaVacca (13:23)
sure.

You mentioned a lot of things there, barbell work, sprinting work. Now, obviously, you know, your environment is going to play a key here. You know, do you have a gym membership? Do you have a garage gym like you guys have? Do you just have a couple of adjustable dumbbells? But one question I really liked asking guests like yourself is, do you believe or do you hold clients to a certain standard for them to be able to access a barbell sprint?

You know, do heavy RDLs. Do you have a protocol or process in place? Because it's been interesting to hear people's different philosophies on how they approach this. So was wondering if you could share yours.

Ben Barker (14:19)
Definitely. Man, that's the cool thing is seeing people in different avenues who are getting it done. Right? Because there's guys who don't touch a barbell at all who look twice as good as me who are doing calisthenics, right? Or whatever it may be. And so the cool thing is it takes almost nothing to get it done. And there's that saying, it's something like, you your body doesn't know the difference between resistance. Like resistance is resistance. And so like sometimes if somebody comes to me and they're like, hey, I want to

⁓ Like this program of yours. This is the equipment I have available. I'm like, hey listen, you won't be able to do that exact program But here's what you can do. And so man if you don't have access to a barbell and you're like, man I don't have a gym membership. I guess I just won't be fit. There's so many cool things you can just do Bodyweight or you see guys getting it done. I think of that guy. I think his Instagram is the Martin method And he's like all kettlebells, right and dudes incredibly fit. I think he's a dad of three

Joe Gambino (15:05)
Mm.

Ben Barker (15:18)
⁓ so easy to get it done with dumbbells, kettlebells, barbells, or just body weight, whatever you have available.

Joe LaVacca (15:26)
That's great. So it's not that necessarily people have to get, you know, eight degrees of hip internal rotation before they're allowed to sprint or 75 degrees of toe extension before they're allowed to sprint. Do what feels good for your body. Do what you have access to. And then let's make sure it's progressive and fits your planning capabilities. I think, is that what I'm hearing? Correct? Ben, is that fair to say? ⁓

Joe Gambino (15:32)
You

Ben Barker (15:51)
You said it so much better than I did, but,

Joe Gambino (15:53)
Yeah.

Ben Barker (15:55)
100

% yes and I think y'all would both agree like everybody needs to squat in in some capacity right it doesn't have to be like a 750 pound squat you know from a power lifter with knee wraps on because all of us are going to need have a hard time getting off the toilet one day and it's very important that we maintain enough strength you know to do that or to get out of our chair you know to get up and play with our grandkids and that can be done with a kettlebell goblet squat it can be done with a barbell squat

It can be done with, know, with sissy squats, whatever it may be. And the cool thing is, you know, even if you're just entry level and you start with a very regressed variation, you can always add as you go.

Joe Gambino (16:36)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I love that. I mean, I think that's some of the most important things is like that they're all tools to the trade, right? We should just pick whatever you like. That's probably what you want to be consistent, right? Just pick the thing that you like the most and as long as you're consistent with it, can stick with it. Good things will happen. But go ahead, sorry about that.

Ben Barker (16:53)
Yeah, I think

it's also important to note I saw a very famous power lifter.

talking recently about lifting and he was like, I think we need to get something out in the open here. He was like, what I am doing is not great for longevity. He's like, I'm a competitive athlete and I'm probably going to pay for this one day. So like if your goal is longevity, it's probably, you know, a few very functional workouts per week plus gardening and walking, you know, like mobility work. If we're talking like living to 100, like the extremely

Joe Gambino (17:08)
Mm-hmm.

Mm.

Ben Barker (17:29)
heavy squats are probably not necessary like they're fun for me and I want to perform a certain way but at the end of the day if I'm talking like living to 100 like a 500 pound squat isn't necessary.

Joe Gambino (17:43)
Mm.

Joe LaVacca (17:44)
but it's gonna be really cool to tell your grandkids about. ⁓

Ben Barker (17:46)
It's very cool for Instagram.

Joe Gambino (17:47)
Yeah, as I was gonna say,

loves it. They don't care about someone's 165 pound squat that they've been plateaued at for three or four weeks, right? So they want the highlight reel. But kind of on this note, do you believe that there are fitness standards for a dad who wants to able to serve the community or be the best version of themselves?

Ben Barker (18:12)
Yes.

And I'll put this disclaimer in there. Like I put up some standards a couple of years ago and I wish I had pulled it up and mine was like, this is for an elite level of fitness as a dad. And it sparked a lot of controversy because I said, I think it was something like, you know, you should be able to overhead press your body weight. You should be able to bench press 1.5 times your body weight, squat two times your body weight, deadlift 2.5 times your body weight, 10 strict chest to bar pull ups.

Joe Gambino (18:39)
Thank

Ben Barker (18:43)
50 unbroken push-ups and guys like dude this is elite and I was like yes that that was the that was the point this is elite that may not be everybody's goal but like if I see a dad who can do five legitimate pull-ups I'm impressed like full range of motion you know full extension clavicle to the bar like I'm impressed if you can do 20 full range of motion push-ups I'm impressed right

And so it's gonna vary a little bit from person to person, but like ultimately, if you can do a full range of motion squat, you can do some pull-ups, some push-ups, you can pick up your kids and carry them without blowing up your back. You can sprint to your kid if you need to. You can carry them on your shoulders when you go for a hike. Like that's the ultimate goal.

Joe Gambino (19:31)
Yeah. Yeah. I love that. I like this question because in the strength of the, I did work at the division one level for strength and conditioning. Most of the men's room is basketball and in that community there, they have like the standards, right? And it's very similar to that. Like to be able to perform at a higher level, right? Those are the, our version of like what we should be able to do in the gym to be able to perform your best. So I'm always curious, like, do we like, and I see it on Instagram, two people will pick.

these random movements and be, can you do this? If this is the case, then you're, then you're, you're fit. And, know, sure there's, uh, you know, we make them upright. So I don't know, necessarily know if they're the correct rules, but, obviously everyone's different with their own life and goals. Right. So I think that's what kind of trumps here, but I'm always curious to hear what people have to say about it.

Joe LaVacca (20:19)
think going off of that too, and you were mentioning the longevity conversation and ⁓ quad strength being connected to longevity, right? We'll stick to just some fitness parameters, right? ⁓ Toe strength has been connected to longevity, grip strength has been connected to longevity. So what I'm seeing with a lot of my clients who are looking to train for longevity, they're coming in and to me, I think they're mixing the message a little bit. It's like, hey,

I need to do leg extensions in my program. And I'm like, yeah, okay, well, we could put leg extensions in there. but I also need to do a lot of calf raises. Okay, we could do that too. then I'd like you to end every session with farmer carries, you know, or something that trains my grip so I can live forever. And I'm like, okay, well, ⁓ sounds like you just wrote your own program. So why do you need me? But I think a lot of that stuff is proxies to just being healthy and fit, right?

Joe Gambino (21:05)
you

Joe LaVacca (21:14)
So how have you been navigating those conversations with your clients? Because I'm imagining all human beings are relatively the same. People are coming to you with those longevity goals. Are you specifically programming very differently for those types of clients? Or are you just maybe taking them to four sets of eight instead of five sets of two when you're about long-term programming?

Ben Barker (21:35)
Yeah, so the main thing I'm doing now is I don't like to use the word ⁓ generic, but I have a program that I feel like fits 99.9 % of dads, right? And so what I'll do, like typically my program is just laid out, like this is what it is for the day and everybody does the same workout. What I will do lots of times at the end of the workout,

Joe Gambino (21:45)
Hmm.

Ben Barker (21:58)
I'll do something where it'll be like, ⁓ is last section of the day. I want you to choose 50 reps of any exercise. That's something that you need to improve. Right. And so like we have the main workout for the day that everybody does. And then I'm like, if you're struggling with your low back, I want you to do 50 reps of a 45 degree back extension broken up however you want to. And so I kind of leave that in my programming. Cause like, everybody needs to squat. Everybody needs

Joe LaVacca (22:09)
Mm-hmm.

Ben Barker (22:28)
grip strength and you know it doesn't have to be a farmers carry though it can be you know a dead hang from the pull-up bar like if you're doing deadlifts and you're holding on to the barbell without straps you know you're working your grip.

Joe Gambino (22:34)
Mm-hmm.

Ben Barker (22:40)
So I most people sometimes get almost, and y'all know this, if somebody has a very specific injury that you're working with, you do have to really get in there and do something very specific to work on that. But for the general population, if you're squatting, you're hinging, you're pulling, you're pressing, you're doing all the things that you need to do if you're living an active lifestyle and eating in a way that reflects your goals. But with that being said, and then for guys, get like, I put it in a vanity,

way as well. Like if you're wanting to build your arms, you know, you're going to do 50 reps of hammer curls, break that up however you need to. And so I think for the most part, if we're hitting the main movement patterns that we need to, and then you have something specific you need to address, you can do that as extra.

Joe Gambino (23:15)
Mm-hmm.

Joe LaVacca (23:16)
Yeah.

I love that. ⁓ Joe, I don't know if you've realized this, but over the last couple of podcasts, you've brought up like a Goosebumps, Choose Your Own Adventure. think especially when you've been asking me questions. And Ben, I love that. And I'm always looking for like little bits of advice from other coaches. I love just adding in an extra box for my clients and be like, Hey, look, if you want to work on this, throw in an extra couple sets of this today. Choose your own adventure to kind of end it. I love that. I might steal that from you, buddy. I'm going to give you credit for it. ⁓

Joe Gambino (23:34)
yes, yeah.

Joe LaVacca (23:54)
but only for the first month of programming and then I'm gonna steal it and take it as my own.

Ben Barker (23:58)
then it's yours. But also Joe, this

is the second time that I've said something and then you've said it better following me. I've never called it choose your own adventure. That's such a good idea.

Joe LaVacca (24:03)
You

Joe Gambino (24:04)
laughs

Joe LaVacca (24:10)
yeah, well you gotta give Joe Gabito credit for that one. He's a big Goosebumps guy. I think he's still got a whole collection of R.L. Stine in his office over there.

Joe Gambino (24:15)
Apparently I am.

Ben Barker (24:18)
Let's go, I love

it.

Joe Gambino (24:19)
I should just get a little shovel over here, which is like goosebumps all in the background here based on our podcast now. Based on, are you all virtual now, Ben?

Joe LaVacca (24:22)
Hahaha.

Ben Barker (24:22)
Yes.

Yes.

Man, I'm like 95 % virtual. I've hung on to...

Joe Gambino (24:36)
Mm-hmm.

Ben Barker (24:38)
two clients that I've had for like 10 years and they're pure joy and y'all know this if you work in the fitness space full-time in person you don't get to always choose who you work with and some people are easier to work with than others and so like the the in-person clients that I have are like straight-up passion project genuinely enjoy working with them.

Joe Gambino (24:41)
I see.

Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Nice. Because I was just curious. Based on my question was why I was curious. But for, you we talked about all these like longevity things and Joe mentioned, you know, some people come in and they are, they're informed, right? They're smart and maybe smart enough to be dangerous, so to speak. And they come in with their own opinions and what they should have in their programs or what shouldn't be in their programs. And so how do you navigate or what would your advice be to someone listening if they

they have that kind of quality to them where they think all these things may be in their program and, you know, maybe they're coming to work with you or with Joe or somebody and they want all these things in their program. How do you approach those conversations?

Ben Barker (25:42)
You can't do it all, right? And it's almost like if you've got all of these buckets of fitness, right? And there should be baselines for everything, right? But there might be a time when you're wanting to improve, like specifically like your aerobic fitness, like your strength might suffer a tiny bit. Or if you're going through a phase where strength is really the goal, know, like VO2 max is such the hot topic right now. You know, your VO2 max might suffer just a little bit

while you're focusing on strength. And there's only so many hours in the days. And so sometimes you've got to pick a specific area to focus on. And if you have hired a coach who's worth their weight in salt, I think at some point you just got to trust them to do their job. And ultimately, like they're going to do the right thing and they're going to put you in the right space. So ultimately, if you are going to make the investment to invest a coach, invest in one that you're going to trust with your programming.

Joe Gambino (26:29)
Right.

Yeah,

I like that. You bring up, I don't know, Joe, if you have a follow up to that, but I will lay out a question before Joe does. ⁓ Based off of that, you talked about kind of the cycling your workouts, like different aerobic here, strength here, hypertrophy here, weight loss here, whatever it is. ⁓ I know for me personally, I do that. have like four different things that I run through the year and each one's like usually like a three week, three month.

focus ⁓ to move something. How do you structure with your programming since you have like almost everyone's doing roughly like the same thing? How is that program throughout the year as far as the qualities that you're trying to train?

Ben Barker (27:20)
Mine 100 % has a bias towards strength.

Joe Gambino (27:24)
Mm-hmm.

Ben Barker (27:25)
and hypertrophy. And I think any good program is going to address, you know, a little bit of everything. ⁓ I 100 % could do a better job on the aerobic capacity. But what I've done with people is like, if your aerobic capacity can be addressed through an active lifestyle. And so like on our rest days, like my full body program is Monday, Wednesday, Fridays, ⁓ Tuesday, Thursday, Saturdays, everybody knows they're supposed to get out and get active.

active

and if you're working on your strength, right? And that's the focus. But on your other days, you're getting out and you're getting, you know, 7,000 steps, you know, you're being active with your family. That's going to address really what you need aerobically. And something cool that I've found is that when I'm doing strength work and I'm just living actively and then I have to do something ⁓ more aerobic than I'm used to, like say like time my mile for this event I did a few weeks ago.

it maintains pretty well. And so with that being said, if you have to choose something that you're really putting your focus on and workout wise, I found that focusing on the strength is where the magic is. And then just that active lifestyle is going to give you what you need aerobically.

Joe LaVacca (28:44)
Yeah. And I really, I was thinking about what you were saying and how so many of what we preach as coaches, as clinicians can probably really fit for 99.9 % of the people that we're trying to serve. And yeah, VO2 max is an important predictor of longevity apparently, but I think what goes a little bit unnoted on Instagram and for my clients is

You know, when you have a poor VO2 max and go to a normal VO2 max for your age, that's probably way more important for your longevity than going from a normal to an elite ⁓ Olympic athlete VO2 max, right? So, you know, that jump, I tell them focus there, right? I think getting back to average or maybe being okay with some average. And I know we have a question for you about culture and stuff that I think this might bleed into, is kind of pushed down.

Joe Gambino (29:18)
Mm-hmm.

Ben Barker (29:19)
Yes.

Joe LaVacca (29:40)
by the healthcare community or maybe the wellness space and maybe that is to generate more money or make people feel like they need to always do more. So what do you have a comment on that? Cause I'm sure again, like your clients struggle with that idea of like, there's always another rung on the ladder. So how do you address that as a coach being like, Hey, this is okay for you. Here's our entry points. What conversations or maybe ⁓ motivational things do you use to guide them?

to be okay with getting a little bit better.

Ben Barker (30:12)
Yeah.

Man, so y'all remember Deion Sanders, the football player? He always had this saying, he was like, you look good, you feel good, you play good. I think ultimately, vanity is a part of it, right? And so if you're, man, if you're excited about the way that your clothes fit, you've got the energy to play with your kids, to hit your work day, you're gonna perform better when you look good and you feel good. And so it's almost like we're so tied in to the metrics.

Joe Gambino (30:15)
Mm-hmm.

Joe LaVacca (30:16)
Of

Hahaha

Yeah.

Joe Gambino (30:37)
Mm-hmm.

Ben Barker (30:43)
like hitting these numbers and stuff like that. like ultimately, if you're happy with the way you look or you're making like some type of process or progress whatsoever, I think ultimately that's the goal. And you know, don't have to get super tied up with, know, like goals are great. Like I love goals. Like in my program, we work off of percentages on our squats and bench press and stuff like that. However, you know, like if I feel good and I look good, there's a lot to say right there. And I know there's a

of leeway in that but I think you put a lot of weight into how you look and how you feel and ultimately that's what keeps it fun and you don't have to dive so deeply into those like my VO2 max is this but Johnny's VO2 max is this you know

Joe Gambino (31:24)
Mm-hmm.

Joe LaVacca (31:29)
Right. Right. And, you know, going back to that idea of like your performance athletes, right? You know, if you have a guy coming in and they want to be first place in Apex, you know, obviously you wouldn't let them do that because you want to be first place in Apex. There's always be a little skew there, right? Um, but yes, someone who wants to be first place in Apex, somebody who wants to live longer and someone who just wants to get stronger to play with their kids. I love all of those goals, especially, or even if you want to look better, because guess what?

Joe Gambino (31:41)
Hehehehehe... Hehehehehe...

Ben Barker (31:43)
Yeah.

Joe LaVacca (31:56)
you're going to funnel down into the same philosophies and principles. So I love your goals. I'm never going to tell people to choose a different one, but I do think having something to look forward to is really important because then I'm going to funnel you into this idea of just consistency and staying the course and, you know, staying safe and using your progressive overload and your percentages. So I can guide you to either finishing first, looking better for the summer or just simply getting stronger. So

Ben Barker (32:01)
Yep.

Joe LaVacca (32:25)
I think a lot of that stuff then like ties back into, well, hey, how's your nutrition, right? If you want to cut, you've got to probably eat a little bit less. If you want to get a little stronger, you probably got to eat a little bit more. So, but no matter what, with those training philosophies, I do feel like they all converge. And I think that's where, you know, and to your point, I've really found a lot of success with my clients in pain being like, Hey, all right. I know your back hurts, but your back is made of muscles and tendons and joints, just like your knee and your shoulder.

So if your knee and your shoulder respond to pumping and moving and walking and everything else, why would your back be any different? So let's get you on this program that's just gonna help you restore some confidence. So I think it was a great point.

Ben Barker (33:07)
100 % and it's like one of those things you're as we age, we're probably going to hurt in some degree, no matter what we do. And so my joke has always been like, I'm going to hurt no matter what I'd like to hurt and be strong, you know, and hurt and be fit. And so like there, you can almost have pain from inactivity and being sedentary, or you can have some discomfort from putting in the work in the gym. And in, you know, y'all know there's a fine line there cause there's,

Joe Gambino (33:16)
Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Ben Barker (33:36)
also people who fall, which I fall into this is like, ⁓ I want to work out so hard that I that like if I'm doing legs, like I want my quads to hurt the next day. And I don't know that that's always healthy. Right. So there's a happy medium in there. But I just think going ahead and agreeing that there's going to be some pain along the way. And we'd like to be in a little bit of discomfort because we've gotten fit rather than in discomfort because we've been sedentary and inactive.

Joe LaVacca (34:04)
that. Love it. Joe, I love this last question that you had for Ben. You want to kick it to him? Because I think it really speaks to a lot of the things that we've been speaking about. And I think it could tie our conversation in really nice.

Joe Gambino (34:16)
Mm.

Perfect.

Yeah. So you had an Instagram post that talked about how the average American dad is overweight, exhausted and complacent and that we should start to think about being counter cultural. So can you elaborate on that and how can a dad listen to this podcast start to take control?

Ben Barker (34:40)
Yeah.

First of all, being a parent or in corporate America, we're busy. I think hustle culture, and there's two sides to this coin. We also need some time to relax and enjoy the fruits of our labor. However, if you look at, I live in Arkansas, which is one of the fattest states in America. ⁓ I guess that's not the nicest way to say it. We have one of the highest obesity levels in America.

Joe Gambino (34:51)
Mm-hmm.

Hehehehehe

Joe LaVacca (35:06)
You

Ben Barker (35:10)
in America,

right? And I think people start using life as an excuse to let their fitness go. It's like, I would get fit, but I've got this. I would get fit, but I've got that.

Joe Gambino (35:18)
⁓ yeah.

Ben Barker (35:23)
And so I think being counter-cultural is carrying along a level of fitness that you're confident in the way that you look and that you can pick up and do anything, anytime. So something that's always been important to me is one day when I'm like 55 and my son's like, dad, I want to go hike Pikes Peak in Colorado. I'm like, where's my backpack? Let's go do this thing. And so I think being counter-cultural, it's not even necessarily a way that you look.

Joe Gambino (35:34)
you

Mm.

Ben Barker (35:52)
carrying a fitness level that allows you to go do anything at any time. Like if my son's like, you know, I want to go run a half marathon. We've got 12 weeks. I'm like, let's do this thing.

Joe Gambino (35:57)
Mm.

Yeah, I love that. Maybe... ⁓

For somebody who's, you know, like, I feel like being fit is, you know, especially as a dad, like it's hard. And I feel like, especially on social media, feels like it's almost like like a superpower. Like these people, like, I already have so much energy to do all these things. But I also feel like that's not the reality. Like I know like seven, eight o'clock, sometimes at five o'clock, like I'm crashing. Like I need a nap on the couch because I have to wake up extra early just to get my workouts and stuff like that. So what are your thoughts on that as far as like, you know, like

energy levels and like how do you like make it work in a sense?

Ben Barker (36:41)
Yep.

So this goes back to a question from earlier, but it's like talking like faith and fitness and all of that. I once had a guy tell me that discipline begets discipline, right? And so it's like the same discipline that gets you up at 5 a.m. to do your workout or, on your lunch break or an evening after work is the same discipline that gets you up off the couch to play with your kids. And I think that's the one problem with social media is, you see all these people who are like, it looks like they are doing

Joe Gambino (36:46)
you

Joe LaVacca (36:52)
Mm.

Ben Barker (37:11)
Everything right they've got they're going on vacations, right? They've they're out playing catch with their kids in the yard They're working out for three and a half hours a day. They're cold plunging. They're in the sauna You know, they're making two hundred and fifty thousand dollars, know, you know what I'm however

It doesn't always feel good, right? And I think just having that realization, like you're not always gonna wanna do the workout, but typically you feel great after you do. You know I'm saying? And it's like the same thing with like getting up to play with your kids. Like sometimes you don't want to. You wanna stay on the couch and scroll on your phone. You wanna put it like something on Netflix for the kids and zone out. But.

Joe Gambino (37:45)
Mm-hmm.

Ben Barker (37:53)
that same discipline that got you to work out is the same discipline that's going to get you up and do the things around the house that you should be doing. And that's kind of where the beauty is.

Joe Gambino (37:56)
Yeah.

Yeah, I like that. think we need to all be, I think everything that's worthwhile is hard. And I think we all, we need to get into mindset of being hard. that's ⁓ the themes with the kids, they're real. mean, that's like exactly what I'm talking to like my daughter about. Like doing hard things is okay. You know, it's good to feel the legs burn when you're riding your bike and not give up and get off the bike. And, you know, same thing when she's trying a project or something like that. So.

Ben Barker (38:07)
Yes.

Joe LaVacca (38:27)
I text that very thing to my stepdaughter this morning, because she's in high school now, and she's learning the idea of making tough decisions. And I literally said to her, when you're stuck, ask yourself which one's harder. And that's probably going to be the right one. ⁓ And I shared a lot of examples with her. just to the last little bit of a point you made about Arkansas.

Ben Barker (38:28)
Love that.

Joe Gambino (38:37)
Mm-hmm.

Ben Barker (38:43)
You're right. Yeah.

Joe Gambino (38:44)
Yeah.

Joe LaVacca (38:54)
And I think even just like the obesity rates in the nation in general, right? It's a lot easier to look right and left at who you surround yourself with and be like, well, I look like this person. I look like that person. I do the same things as they do. So why should I change versus when I go to Colorado, that's where my fiance lives. we're in a long distance relationship and have been so for 10 years. I don't see that. Right. So Colorado.

Joe Gambino (38:57)
Mm-hmm.

Joe LaVacca (39:23)
Everyone's out running. They want to go to Pike's Peak. And this is what made me think about that with your son hiking Pike's Peak. ⁓ Everyone wants to be outside hiking and mountaineering and canyoning and all of these different things. And that's the standard for almost like that environment. So I think the value of coaches like yourself and Joe is you're placing someone into your life that you want to emulate and that you want to learn from.

Joe Gambino (39:26)
Mm-hmm.

Joe LaVacca (39:52)
And that you want to sort of like gather information from because you're probably missing it in other pieces. And I could even see with my high school friends, we're all celebrating turning 40. Then you look a little bit younger than us. So you don't have to worry about that. Right. I don't think for a little bit. All right. So you got some time, but what was really interesting was we always had the one fit friend. All right. And, we joke with all your muscles and blah, blah. And then I got a little bit more serious about my fitness. And then my friend reached out to me and was like, Hey, you think you could help me?

Joe Gambino (40:03)
Hmm.

Ben Barker (40:05)
35.

Joe Gambino (40:06)
There you go.

Joe LaVacca (40:21)
And now he's really serious about his fitness. And now my other friend reached out to me and was like, Hey, well, I see you and this guy and this guy all getting in more shape. Um, and you're 40, just like me with kids. I want to get in shape. So now it's even like in within our group of high school friends, like because we're each seeing the other one take care of themselves just a little bit more. Yeah, we still love Bud Light, but there's a, there's a little bit of a difference now in our decision making. um,

Ben, I really thought this conversation was wonderful. Thank you like really so much ⁓ for your inputs. Thank you for your messaging. Please keep doing that and let our listeners know, man, how can they reach out to Ben Barker? How can they work with you? And are you accepting new clients? And, you know, give us the whole rundown.

Ben Barker (41:08)
Yeah, definitely. Best place to find me is basically any social media platform, Ben Barker Fitness. Probably best place is Instagram. I'm pretty responsive. Shoot me a DM. I'd love to connect. And fellas, I really enjoyed the conversation with you all as well today. I love what you all are doing.

Joe Gambino (41:25)
Yes, man. Appreciate it.

Joe LaVacca (41:25)
Thank very much.

All right. Well, Joe, we love you. Ben, we love you. Listeners, we love you. Thank you for tuning in this week. And don't forget to come back for another exciting episode of the Beyond Pain podcast.