417 | The "Landlord" Is In Danger: Why Resident Benefits Make or Break Investments w/ Andrew Smallwood

As housing affordability gets out of reach for younger generations, and renter culture becomes normalized, it's a great time to be a rental property investor...

But there is a new major risk on the table: internet speed word of mouth and cancel culture.

That's why rental property investors that will succeed in this new era will need to stop thinking like "landlords" and make sure they are doing all they can to help their residents become homeowners.

This week's episode of the Not Your Average Investor show will dive deep into how the best property management companies in America are taking on this mission.

Andrew Smallwood, Chief Customer Officer for Second Nature and evangelist for the Resident Experience, will join JWB Real Estate Capital's co-founder, Gregg Cohen, and show host, Pablo Gonzalez, to talk about:

- How the statistics show a steep rise in rental culture coming
- Why the best property managers have already stopped thinking like "landlords" and focused on the resident experience
- What the real estate investors can do to become part of the solution for the affordability crisis AND drive higher ROI for themselves
- and more!

Anyone investing in rentals needs to be aware of this before risking their hard earned investment in the hands of a landlord.

Join the good guys in the fight against the affordability crisis!

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Transcript

Pablo Gonzalez: 0:00

today. We've got a, we've got a doozy of a headline. landlords at risk of extinction. And the reason why is because We just think it's an antiquated model. That word needs to be retired. This idea of a landlord being somebody that lords over the land, over the people. That's just not how we live in America. And the best property managers in the world are acting a little bit differently. We're making a show about it today. welcome everyone to your weekly edition of the not your average investor show I'm your host Pablo Gonzalez with me as always the man that I affectionately like to call GC because of his genius concepts because he knows how to generate cash flow because he's a great co host and because his name is Greg Cohen say hello Greg hello everybody fantastic to be with you today and back with us today a legend in the space the man who brought to us the words resident experience, a real champion in this idea well before anyone else of treating residents like residents, not like tenants, the value of them for your investment. A guy who is deceivingly tall. He is, at least six, three, maybe six, four and a half. Andrew Chief customer officer of second nature, Andrew Smallwood. Welcome to the show, my friend.

Andrew Smallwood: 2:17

Great to be with you guys. Always looking forward to these.

Pablo Gonzalez: 2:20

So, and always a man of doesn't need to say a lot of words to say a lot of things.

Andrew Smallwood: 2:24

I've got my cowboy boots on cup Pablo, just so I'm, I'm getting every inch I can over here.

Pablo Gonzalez: 2:31

I like a man, Andrew. I don't know if you've listened to the show in a while and I don't know last time you were on, but do you know the tradition that we like to start our show with? Here we go, kicking it off with our lead up hitter going off first today. All right. John Henning. Yeah. The fairy godmother of the natural average of a show community. We got Laura Colby back in the house from Washington state, Laura, Laura making, uh, yeah. Nice to see you too. Welcome back. Our community manager, Joanna, of course, welcoming everybody. If you need anything for Joanna, check it in the chat. We got the Shaw man of the Natchitoches. Our favorite smile of the Pacific Northwest. None other than Pamela Myers. Pamela Myers. Jeff Landvey saying good afternoon all. JWB representing right there. JWB teammate. Jeff, good to have you on. Chris Lee from Fernandina Beach, back in the house. Right, Chris. Me lady. In the house, Jack Chad, Jack Chad, good to have you back. Tony D up in the house. All right. Always a good day when Tony D is always a good day to Anthony did a good. Oh, we got the, the patriarch and matriarch of the first family of the natural average best show. Ken and Carolyn lean. We salute you. We got my buddy, Bob Wiesner in the house. All right, Bob. We got our regulars, Gary and Rosalind Riley from Marietta, California. We regard you. You're gonna hear Priscila Corso is back. Good to have you back. Priscila? Yeah, I recognize that name. T. Caster. T from Nashville, Tennessee. A neighbor of yours Andrew. Andrew's in, Andrew's down in downtown Nashville, if you don't mind me saying. Our favorite name to pronounce Aaron O'Neill into the light. Good to have you, Aaron. We got big pop in the house. I love it when he calls it a big pop up pops. How are you, my man? Co founder of the co founder of Greg's dad. Good to have you, Jay. Who else do we got in here? I I'm like really enjoying Andrew experiencing this through his facial gestures well, we got, we got Diane Jacques. From Massachusetts. That's a new name. New name. New name. Welcome to the show, Dan. Make yourself comfortable. Make a friend in the chat. Jeff Gardner in the house saying hello. Jeff, is that a new name? New name. New name. New name. Two? Two times. We got three? Vic from Virginia. Vic Mudrick back in the house. Not a new name, but awesome to see. The double V. We're gonna call you the double V. The V twin. V twin. V twin. Vic. From Virginia, Virginia. I like it. Kate Sutherland in the house, pillar to this community and, and this company, Gerald Schwartz, Gerald from Harold. That's right. Gerald from Harold. Good to have you, buddy. Good to have you back. Anybody else? Oh, Good to have you, buddy. All right, J Jonah Burke from Indiana. Just claiming Indiana. She's just saying she doesn't even have to say the name. Just yeah. Well, good to have you in our, in our community, Joanna yeah, Jonah, Jonah. Okay, John, I got confused because we got Joanna, we got, you know, you screw it up. All right. So that being said, after this big intro, we do also want to provide a an update on hurricane Helen. So Andrew, I'm going to put you in the green room real quick. And GC, talk to us big storm rolled through here. really terrible images. Honestly, I'm thinking a lot about people in North Carolina, South Carolina the big bend area, really, really tough over there, but give us a little update about, yeah,

Gregg Cohen: 5:35

I mean, I think that's where we should start here. Just thinking of others. This is one of the deadliest storms to hit our country. And the images that you see are, are, are heartbreaking. So our thoughts and our prayers are with those who lost loved ones who are displaced. There's a long cleanup going. And you know, our thoughts and our prayers are with those. That were way more affected here in Jacksonville. You know, this was a big storm and I got to tell you the winds from the storm, they were probably the highest winds that I had felt in any of the close call storms that we've had over the number of years. We saw gusts up to about 60 to 70 miles per hour and in Jacksonville. So, you know, this was this was one. Listen, whenever we have a storm, we talk about it before the storm starts. And we say, it's, we want to the usual. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. We want to prepare for the worst and we want to hope for the best. And we certainly were prepared for the worst here. And you know, clearly the best did not happen. But here is what's important for all of you, right? Number one, it's about protecting people. And then number two, it's about protecting property. And everybody here at JWB is safe. All of our clients, all of our residents, all of our vendors, everybody in the JWB network is safe. Very thankful for that. The part of protecting property is then obviously what our, what our responsibility is for our clients. I got to tell you, I am so proud of my team for the way that we step up in moments like this. If you could have heard the messaging in our Tuesday morning meeting being delivered by Melissa, who is the director of our property management team. She just recommended, she just commended everybody on the team and said, guys, This was our moment to shine. This was our moment to shine for all of our clients who live in 49 states and 13 countries who depend on us to make sure that number one, people are taken care of, and number two, property is taken care of. We not only had all of our team here, making sure that we were being there for your residents, whether that's manning the phones, whether that is making sure that those work orders are taken care of, but we had other departments of JWB that just, you know, We're jumping in and saying, how can I help? We have other departments that it's not their responsibilities to talk to our residents. They said, I want to be there. I want to help. So I'll share some of these stats with you. Cause I do want to give you some perspective on work orders, but I gotta tell you, this is why you invest with a vertically integrated company. It is for great moments that we all love celebrating, but it's when there are really tough moments and you need somebody to have your back. That is when a vertically integrated company is there to shine. And so very, very proud of the team, all 130 plus individuals here at JWB working on your behalf to make sure that this this storm has mitigated effects certainly on your investment and then number one, everybody's safe. So we feel very good about that.

Pablo Gonzalez: 8:17

Awesome, man. I think that you were agreed, right? Like this is definitely the hardest I've been rocked since being here in Jacksonville. For me, it, it represented, I lost power from like, maybe like 1 a. m. to like 4 p. m. the next day. Right. I saw a bunch of outages around, around town. Never really felt in danger. Thank God. Right. Like I, I feel like that, that, that was a really big thing, especially seeing the whole effect. Do you have any kind of like understanding you're saying there's elevated maintenance and things of the sort, right? Like any, any understanding on if something happened in one of our properties, will we already have been contacted? Is that still being taken inventory of?

Gregg Cohen: 8:56

Well, so that's going to be an ongoing process. Here's, here's how it goes. At times like this, it is contacting our clients who need to be contacted when there's real issues. So if you haven't been contacted, that's a good thing. Do not expect a call to every client letting you know that your property is safe. Those calls happen routinely throughout the months anyways. So that would, that would happen at its regular schedule for you. But if there is an issue, you 100 percent will be notified. You may have already been notified. But of course, things continue to roll in as far as work orders. So no news is good news for you as a client, if you don't hear from us. And of course, if there is an issue, We're going to reach out to you and talk to you about how we're going to solve that problem.

Pablo Gonzalez: 9:37

Cool. So if I haven't gotten a call, probably everything's okay, but there is a chance that maybe somebody just hasn't reported something and I might get something.

Gregg Cohen: 9:44

Exactly. Cool. Exactly. Calls continue to come in.

Pablo Gonzalez: 9:46

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Any overall stats?

Gregg Cohen: 9:49

Yeah. So I asked the team to share the stats with me. Obviously in, in other close calls for major storms, we've been able to share those stats and give you a perspective of I'll listen. This was just kind of a regular storm in Jacksonville, but I do want to be transparent with you. This was an elevated number of maintenance work orders. And I wanted to put some stats behind it. So the team prepared those for me. We had 190 work orders that were open due to the hurricane. just since Friday. And if you count the total number of work orders, which happened either due to the hurricane or just because life happens, we've opened up 307 work orders that would include both hurricane and non hurricane items. That is a super high volume for our team. We had 94 calls that came into our phone line, which is our fix it phone line, which we share with all of our residents. And that just came in on Friday. Which is when the brunt of the storm had sort of passed through and it was the first day for all of our client, excuse me, all of our vendors to get out there and take a look at all the items. But check out this stack guys. This is a stat that shows you that we are here for you in even the toughest moments. We had 96 percent of our phone calls answered on Friday.

Pablo Gonzalez: 10:57

Wow.

Gregg Cohen: 10:57

96 percent at a day where we had a super elevated call volume, and more importantly, a day when people needed to talk to somebody.

Pablo Gonzalez: 11:05

Yeah.

Gregg Cohen: 11:05

So this is just answered on the first call. The other call 4 percent we're probably call back right there. And just to put it in perspective, we average about 56 work orders a day that are open managing this roughly 6, 000 homes that we manage. And these days we're averaging 102 work orders a day. So basically double the call volume due to the storm. But you know, we're built for this. This is why we are here. Even if our property management team, department team gets overloaded, okay. All of JWB jumps in to make sure that we're there with your residents when they need it most. And no, no stat highlights that more than 96 percent call answered on a day like that.

Pablo Gonzalez: 11:43

Yeah, man, I can imagine a a property manager that doesn't have, you know, the scale that you all do, right? We talk about this as an advantage as a, as a, as an investor, but also like, Or the people that are living in my home, a property manager that doesn't have 120 people under one roof and people in the bullpen and people beyond the bullpen. Kind of like waiting in the wings that are able to jump on this stuff has, has to be a major relief. For that homeowner that's calling trying to understand something that's going to happen. Renter, renter. Yeah. That renter that's calling. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a big deal.

Gregg Cohen: 12:21

And you know, you have got to be there with people when they need you there. Yeah. Right. That is the essence of customer service. No other time that is needed more than when you have major have a major house thing that may have happened to you because of a hurricane. Yeah. So I'm really proud of the team and you know, we're going to continue to keep you updated. You know, guys, listen, maintenance costs are a part of this investment. And you also have insurance for times like this as well. So you are prepared for this because of the insurance that you have. We'll take care of the items that are resulting from this as well. Make sure your resident experience is top notch as well. And we'll continue to deliver those, those great returns for you, even in the midst of a storm. Anything else on this? We're good.

Pablo Gonzalez: 12:58

Okay. So then if we're talking about resident experience, I think of one name and that name is Andrew Smallwood is now spotlighted over here, Andrew. You know, we've had a couple of conversations here recently on, since we've been seeing each other at trade shows lately, which I'm a really big fan of being able to hang out with you IRL. But this idea of the resident experience, right? Like the theme of the show is this landlord becoming an endangered species. How did, how did you and your company second nature start to really Dial in on the need to have that conversation and insert it into the lexicon of property managers everywhere.

Andrew Smallwood: 13:40

Yeah. Well, again, thanks guys for having me on and appreciate the updates you guys have had there. We've been tracking. We second nature works with over a million residents all across the nation. And there's a lot that's been affected in Florida as well as Georgia and the Carolinas. And so, thoughts go out to anybody affected by that. On the call your question about Hey, where did this resident experience thing start? And I'd kind of bring it back to, you know, almost the language you guys were talking about in the beginning of like, Hey, landlord and tenant. It really does sound like a anachronist. It's like of a antiquated kind of feudal time and relationship almost right? And sometimes bringing new language to things helps people take a new point of view or perspective, right? On something that seems familiar at first, see it in a new way. And when people see things in a new way, they can act on them in a different way. And when they can act on them in a different way, Right. That can lead to different results, right. Different outcomes. And so, so yeah, we, we thought intentionally about, Hey, not, not calling folks tenants, right. But residents, and it's a little elevating, right. You know, kind of association there. And you know, we really think about what I've got lit up in neon right back here, which is how crucial the resident is in creating what we call triple win experiences. In rental management and for too long, there's just been a lot of friction between landlords and tenants, right? Or between property managers as they came in the game and property owners and and residents as well. And we started saying, okay, all of those moments of friction and where things aren't going right. Or when something happens to somebody else, right, at their expense, if that's good for somebody else, that's, that's misaligned. How do we create a more aligned future of housing where hey, when residents win, the property owner wins, and the property manager wins, and we can turn that flywheel over and over and over again. And there's a lot of those kind of opportunities. I feel like we're still, Early on in turning those into those problems into triple win experiences, but there's a lot of success and a lot of momentum here over the last few years that you know, we're wanting to push forward and great companies like JWD and some of the professional property management companies are really leading the way. in kind of taking a new approach to things in a way that benefits everyone. And that, that's the future that we believe in. That's a future we want to build and be a part of. So that's what we're up to.

Pablo Gonzalez: 16:08

We talk a lot about aligned incentives on the show and it's not you know, I don't know. I don't know if you remember Andrew, but I think you and I met on LinkedIn. I was immediately like, I got to introduce you to JWB, right? Cause it's just a very, it's a very kind of like a line thinking, gee, you know, like how do you, how do you think about The thinking of resident experience when you guys started this thing 18 years ago as 24 year old, afroed greg cohen was that was that you're thinking like when when did it start becoming important to you guys understanding this idea of like a triple win?

Gregg Cohen: 16:39

You know, I just I think when andrew communicates i'm I always have a pen handy I'm always writing stuff down. Yeah, and because I you know, it is He's so eloquent in maybe the challenges of this space. And so what I even wrote down here, I wrote down more aligned future of housing, like, you know, what a great concept here, right? Andrew, I wanted to share with you too, buddy. We have taken quotes straight from Andrew Smallwood and use those as quotes in our team meetings, just to talk about the vision. And it's great to hear it. You know, not just from inside these walls, but from other industry experts and leaders who, who communicate about the same thing. So it's wonderful to have Andrew here and for everybody to understand that this can be an experience where you can win as an investor and the person on the other end of the transaction can win as well, maybe even more than you over the long haul as well. And so. This is, this is a new developing way of thinking. Where it started for us back in the day, 18 years ago, is just this simple concept that, you know, when I was walking down the street and talking with friends or family or whoever about this crazy idea I had about starting a company, helping people buy rental properties, people would always get excited about the idea of making money through real estate. I never had to convince anybody that this was a great investment from the idea of making money. But just as excited they were about owning real estate and doing it passively, they were also so convinced that there would be a friction based relationship with the tenant. They were just convinced that that would happen. And because of that friction, they believed that it would be a poor investing experience. And that's what has kept so many people from this space. So we just kind of re engineered the problem and said, well, listen, if people already understand that this is a great way to make money, build a better retirement account, be the foundation of your financial future. We said, we don't have to really fix that problem. We just have to let it, let it be what it is. We have to fix the client investing experience. And the best way to fix the client investing experience is to have a wonderful resident relationship. So that's why this whole vertically integrated process came to be a JWB. It was about working backwards for the problem. And if we could have great resident relationships, it would make it a better investing relationship for our clients. And ultimately that was the hardest thing to overcome. Once we have been able to show people the light that that's possible. The opportunity to make money takes care of itself in real estate. Can I,

Andrew Smallwood: 19:16

can I add something on there, Pablo?

Pablo Gonzalez: 19:18

Yeah, that's why I paused. I knew that you got some good.

Andrew Smallwood: 19:21

And by the way, Greg, we, I feel like every now and again, I check out JWB's website. We're looking for a little little nuggets and sound bites too, from you guys. We, we appreciate stealing with pride over here as well. You know, something that's like kind of funny to think about is if you think about the last couple decades as a consumer there's tons of companies that are winning on experience and how much innovation is happening right for consumers as it relates to their experience. It's like it's incredible. I mean, there was a time where. To get from point A to point B, you had to wait on a curb for 20 minutes, like waving your hand like a crazy person and whistling and doing all kinds of things. And like now it's three taps on your phone to get anywhere you want to go in a matter of a few minutes, right? To get your groceries arriving at your house, right? To find whatever information that you're looking for. It's not even behind ten blue links anymore, right? It's, it's right on the other side of some conversational UI. And so thinking about how all of these problems for consumers have been, you know, made incredibly convenient. There's been a ton of innovation and personalization that's been happening. for listening. Outside of the home. It's a question of, okay, what about the experiences inside the home? And one of the ahas for us is, I mean, a third of somebody's income in many cases is going to housing, right? Like in many ways, this is the largest consumer. Product right that exists and yet how are we really innovating and pushing forward on the product and service and I would just say like that thought has like gotten under our skin and people like the JWB team skin where it's like you can't see it the same way once you hear it that way. And you're like, okay. Like we can work together to make this better and make improvements. And I think that's a lot of kind of what, what motivates us is the expectations for residents of what they expect from their housing experience continues to go up and great companies, right, are figuring out how to exceed that. Right. To meet those expectations and exceed them. Because when you do, that's how you win. That's how you win customers. That's how you keep customers. And I love what JWB teaches about, hey, making money in real estate. A huge key to winning in the SFR game is retention, right? Is retention. Because if you can attract the best residents, if you can keep the best residents, right? If you can make them happy and exceed their expectations. They're going to be more cooperative and you need some of their cooperation right in at at key moments and key times that help drive the value of your investment. Then that's huge. And you have a relationship built on trust. And I just want to because I will probably forget. I want to say this, which is second nature works with thousands of property management companies all over the nation, and there's thousands more we don't work with yet. But JWB, like of all the companies we see, even the companies that we work with they really are sincere about building an incredible relationship. It goes far beyond what second nature does and what we do with JWB. It's, it's how they're answering the phone, like being there when it counts. It's all of these different moments and every one of those moments is an opportunity to meet or exceed a customer's expectation. And that's the key to winning in the experience game. That's the key to winning in retention, which. Again, is a real key to winning in the investment game if that's what you're here to do. And so I just wanted to add that to what Greg shared.

Gregg Cohen: 22:47

Thank you, buddy. I mean, I got to say, if there are any property managers on the call and you're not working with second nature yet, you should be making a phone call to second nature because it is meant it, you know, in addition to the shared beliefs that we have as companies, SecondNature provides the tools to be able to put these thoughts and plans and beliefs into action. and I'm sure we'll get into more and more of how they've been able to help JWB. But what SecondNature does is it is that third party company from us that operates under a common set of core values and allows us to deliver this wonderful resident experience. And that's why all of your investments are working.

Pablo Gonzalez: 23:23

Yeah, this is the easiest intro I've ever made in my life. For the record, I, I have a hard time speaking on this call because you two are two of my favorite speakers to list like list to talk communicators. That being said, my core value, we're talking a lot about core values, right? My core value is relationships over transactions. Number one core value. But I'm going to put that aside because to me, relationships over transactions, you guys are speaking right to me, right? Like growing a relationship, long term long term thinking triple wins is like, I'm going to say I'm the first guy to raise my hand. I'm going to, I'm going to play a little bit of devil's advocate on this to start. just to, just to make the value clear. Then I want to talk about what it actually looks like. What are we talking about here, guys? What is the residence benefits package? How are we making these core like triple value things? How can people be educated about their consumption of property managers, right? What do we, what do we need to set the expectations for? And then we've got a little surprise in the last five minutes for our inner circle people that I think you're really, really gonna like. So now that I've teased all of it, I'm putting on my investor hat. Okay. All of these, all of these KBGB super feely, nice feelings of like resident experience and triple wins. That's cool guys. But I bought real estate to make money. I am trying to create a better retirement for me and my family. I'm sure that today there's, you know, like we talk about, we talk about some stats and stuff like that. But like Andrew, when you went to market evangelizing, this need for it. how did you get past that part? How did you get past the idea of like, why should I invest a little bit more? Like what make it make sense to me as like Scrooge McDuck investor right now?

Andrew Smallwood: 25:10

Yeah, well, well, I will say this is probably why we start with philosophical alignment because, because again, I don't believe everybody is second nature's customer and I'm going to give an example of this. So, you know, we have a program where we do filter delivery. To the properties, and I remember there being a property manager once a month, I would talk to who would say something like, Andrew, I make money on HVAC maintenance. Why would I want to prevent 38 percent of HVAC work orders if I'm making money on the HVAC work order? And a similar thing, like, hey, why, why would I want a rewards program or a credit program that incentivizes on time payments if I'm making money on late fees? Right, as an example, and to me, I think that person is just not our customer. And we just don't believe in the same future and the way that things should be like, there's a value to something and again, have I had conversations with those people where I walk them through? Hey, by the way here's a way where again, everybody's winning and you're actually making out better than it. But the question is, do they even want to hear that? Are they even open to that to start? And I think, That's why we start with philosophical alignment. But the truth is, if you're not looking at a narrow point in time, like the day of that HVAC work order and what you're getting paid to coordinate that work, if you're looking at it over a horizon, a longer time horizon of I'm helping my investor client. Reduce next to the roof, right? The second most expensive thing in their home. Like, how do I bring that cost down for them and make it easier to be in the real estate investment business and make it easier for them to get their second home or their third home or their fourth home. Right. And if I look at this as, Hey, I'm eliminating that emergency maintenance call that stresses out my team, makes it easier for my talent to be here. How do I. Eliminate that issue, which of course the peak is in the summer, right? Where you see the peak of turnover, right? For residents. Like, I don't think that's a coincidence, right? That HVAC is lining up with that. And so again, how can you line up those things? Whereas a property manager, you're still doing better as an investor, right? They're doing better as a resident. They're doing better, but looking over a longer time horizon, we think about lifetime value versus transaction value and not short changing you know, Tripping over a penny, right? Or tripping over a dollar, right? Trying to pick up a penny, so to speak. It's perfectly okay to make money in this business and, and whatever role that you're in as an investor, as a property manager, the only shame in making money is not putting it to good use and to continuing to help you know, make a bigger and bigger impact, right? On customers. It's how we think about it. So anyway, we'll get into more of the specifics of Hey, how does this pan out? But investors are absolutely saving money thanks to these programs, right? And that that should be clear in the value proposition. A big part of that's retention and some of that's maintenance saving. Some of that's more on time payments happening, right? There's different ways that that materializes at no cost. To the investor, by the way, right? At least the way that JWB structures this. There's no cost to the investor to get these benefits. And that's huge. Like that's a really compelling value proposition. So I would say if somebody wants to make money in real estate, fantastic, right? That's what we're here to help you do. And it shouldn't be a conflict with helping the resident have a great experience and putting the property manager in a better position as well.

Gregg Cohen: 28:29

You know, man, when you're telling that story about that property manager who's thinking that way, I, you probably saw me, I just smacked myself in the head just because, you know, it's just, it's an old school way of thinking about this, but you know, the key to being able to look at an experience like that and smacking yourself in the head being your response is because. You know, we are, we, two things. We have a long term outlook here. So you want to be working with a property management company that is here for the long, long haul. I love Andrew, how you said, you know, here about lifetime value, lifetime value, not moment in time value. And the other thing is you got to work with a company that makes more money. When you make more money, where goals are aligned, and what I mean by that is a vertically integrated company. is one where like JWB can roll out what Second Nature is talking about here, the residents benefits package which all of our residents take part in. And we can do it in a way where we don't make money on, or the investor doesn't have to pay money. So we don't make money on the investor by doing this. It's just a benefit by doing that. And we don't have to try to squeeze everything because we are here to deliver a better resident experience. because it's going to help you buy more homes because we make the majority of our income on home sales. This is the same line of thinking behind why a vertically integrated company like JWB can sign two and three year leases when your regular property management company just doesn't do that. They, they can't do it because the economics don't work because 25 to 50 percent of their revenue comes from tenant placement fees. So you got to find two, a company with two elements to be able to have this experience. And to make sure that internally that company is looking at opportunities, uh, like what Andrew shared there and making sure that that mentality doesn't live there. Um, the opportunity to charge more on maintenance is something that almost every property management company does out there, but vertically integrated companies like JWB don't want that. Because if I charge you on top of the maintenance item that you are receiving, you're going to be doubly mad. And the next time you go to buy a house, not only are you going to be mad about that maintenance item, you're going to be mad that JWB made money on that maintenance item. And you're going to question the thoughts and the strategies and the motivations behind all of this. And you're just not going to buy as many homes. So you got to look for long term, vision, right? Lifetime value of a client is what a company should be looking for, and they have to be able to make more money when you make more money. And many times that's the ability to sell homes in addition to doing property management services.

Pablo Gonzalez: 32:21

Yeah. Listen, I, as I have increased my involvement in the, in, in our ecosystem here, right? Like, like I said, I've, I've seen Andrew at like three different events in the last two months. Something that's become very clear to me is that there are not a lot of people that grew up thinking that they want to be property managers, right? And there is this like education in how to run a business that is almost an education in human nature, right? Like as a kid. You're just like, give me, give me, give me, give me, give me. And at some point, I don't know about you guys, but it, the light bulb turned on for me probably late of this idea that no, no, no, the best way to get is to give and to think longterm and to value relationships and do this kind of stuff. So this language of like lifetime value versus initial transactional value is something that in the construction industry, we would deal with a lot, right? Like how do we make these better decisions? And the reality is, as I. You know, as I, as I understand the property management space and, and, and I see the, the language of resident experience permeating, I would say like a third of the booths said something about that at these like shows that we've gone to, I just happened to know that it was Andrew put that in their brain, you know, like, is this idea that as an investor, now what I know as an investor is that that moment when maintenance happens, that moment when there is friction with your resident is the moment that my wife and I sit across the table from each other and say, Is this really worth it? Yeah. You know, like, and, and, and it's, and the conversation stems somewhere from, is it really worth it to be a property investor to, are we really using the right teammate for people, right? Like I have the luxury of not having to have that second conversation. But, but you know, the, the sooner that property managers understand that, like this triple one thing is, is the way to approach it because the person actually paying the bills. wants to have as few a conversation of like the friction between me, my property and the person living in it as possible. You know, the quicker that they're going to get to win, right? So that being said, I would love to just kind of talk about, you know, we talk a lot on the show of long term leases, reducing res, you know, like reducing reducing a vacancy. And, and we kind of talk about JWB's operational capacity of being able to do that from the standpoint of signing long term leases. But behind it is the idea of like a resident wanting to sign a long term lease. Right. And that I think comes back to some of the stuff that you all do that you all work together on, which is this like benefits package and things like that. So Andrew, I would just like for you to explain to us kind of like what the best property managers do. Have figured out that creates a better resident experience, how they're, how, how you are able to create win wins, triple wins.

Andrew Smallwood: 35:15

Yeah. And, and, you know, Pablo, when you say, Hey, there's multiple vendors, right? Coming to the space and talking about resident experience. Like I'm very encouraged by that. Like that, that's what we want. Second nature does not have a resident experience is a very big thing, right? And so I'll explain our part in this or how we see our role in it. But I think more and more companies that are doing that and more and more companies like JWB that are embracing that and pulling all of that together and building their own solutions like that is going to take us where we need to go on a timeline that that I'm sure we still won't ever be satisfied with, but much faster than we would be otherwise. And, you know, where second nature fits in this for those who aren't familiar is second nature offers and facilitates what's called a resident benefits package. And if you think about a resident benefits package, it's really a suite of services that make handling lease responsibilities easy and cost effective for residents. And, you know, the language around like benefits package, where that comes from, just like an employer, the best employers attract and retain and win with people by providing unique benefits and an exceptional employee experience, the best property managers across the nation, attract and retain and add revenue and decrease costs right for investors by providing unique Benefits in a winning resident experience. And so that's kind of where that thinking and kind of paradigm comes from. And so what we, what we want to do is help property managers build a different experience and deliver a different service level to their residents that differentiates their business right in, in the marketplace. That's what we're focused on and what do we do to do that? What's, what's in a resident benefits package. Second nature offers. Seven or eight different resident facing products. I guess we'll count them as we go here, but filter delivery, which I mentioned before. So as opposed to, Hey, it's in the lease on page seven paragraph two, you got to go to the store and you know, remember what size you're supposed to get. Remember what quantity there are in the house. Remember what quality you're supposed to buy, et cetera. And by the way, you mentioned nobody goes to school for property manager. Like nobody goes to school for like how to rent and take care of a single family home. And so many people that are coming from an apartment building, they've never done this before. So I've got a lot of empathy for residents. I was this person once who just didn't realize it was my responsibility as a renter to be doing that. Right. And all of that friction in the way, Hey, we, we, we take that and we say, okay, how do we get all that out of the way and make it as easy as opening their front door? They get the exact filters that they need on the day that they need it. They are date stamped, you know, and they get instructions, graphic instructions to do it. It's as easy as popping toast in the toaster. By taking all of that friction out, you go from one or two out of ten to all but one or two out of ten, right? Changing the filter on time the way that you want to. And that's what drives down that HVAC, you know, work order occurrence and the benefits. Everybody else gets there. We have a renter's insurance program, right? And we think about this from a standpoint of residents get choice so they can go and get their own and provide proof of insurance and do that. But we also have a master policy and getting it is as easy as signing the lease, right? So here's everything my lease says about it. What amount of property damage I need, right? Personal legal liability coverage that I need. It needs to be an A rated carrier who's proven to pay their claims, right? These kind of conditions. If you have a pet or an animal that there's dog bite coverage, right? As a part of that, they're getting all of that, right? As a part of this master policy, it's as easy as signing a release to get it. And they get it at a price that's 7 below the national average premiums. That's cost savings right for the resident, which is great in Florida. By the way, I'm sure it's like way more than 7 that they're saving because the cost of insurance there is quite different, right? Than Wyoming. And so that's great for residents and it protects investors and property managers to ensure you're closing that risk or compliance gap. Cause we see only 55 percent of residents nationwide actually carry the insurance that their lease requires. Listen, there's other things like on demand pest control, right? And hey, here's the pests that are, you know, kind of a problem and could cause a problem for everybody. And making sure that's budgeted for, it's transparent that it's a responsibility of the lease. It's taking care of what's on the resident that they're handling and taking care of that and not surprised by a 2, 000 bed bug bill or something right later down the road. We're helping with utilities getting set up, internet services, TV services, things like that at move in. Rewards and credit, which I'll put hand in hand every time a residents paying their rent on time. Now, it's not just hey, my payment is Kind of a drain and it's not going towards anything. And I'm not building anything like I am when I own a home and I'm building some equity, Hey, I'm actually getting something back, right. When I'm doing this. And so it won't change the portion of residents who've had, you know, bad luck hit them and they don't have the money, right. And it's not there. Right. And there's a situation to resolve there. It doesn't solve for that, but what it does solve for is the many residents who it's been a challenge to prioritize it. It's been a challenge to be motivated and it's been a challenge to feel like. Hey, I'm actually building trust, right? Like your best residents and the sum that can be influenced there. We're seeing property managers increase their, their AR, right? By 2% you know, bad debt by a couple percent by putting these kinds of programs in place. And, the last one just to round it out, I think is a million dollar ID protection policy. It's an interesting stat actually in 2019 that digital crime passed home burglaries for the first time. And now it is three to five X. The size of what it was just five years ago, and it makes sense when you think about it, because home burglaries kind of like this, right? And digital crime has gone like this. And so, you know, with a home burglary, it's obviously scary. There's an imminent physical threat, but they can only grab what they can with their hands. So to speak, like, the financial impact is kind of limited. Whereas with digital crime, somebody can just drain the entire bank account, max out a credit card. It can be really severe impact. And so having that kind of policy in place ensures one, residents are protected and then B, their ability to pay rent is also protected, right? And they can get that resolved. That risk is taken care of and off the table for investors as well. So those are the kinds of things Pablo we've been looking at and solving for and putting together and just. bringing as a great value proposition to the resident.

Gregg Cohen: 41:32

Yeah. I love it. Did you mention credit repair as well? I mean, not credit repair, but reporting positive credit on there.

Andrew Smallwood: 41:38

I was saving that one for last to kind of tee up because Pablo let me know there was, uh, there's something cool you guys are working on that I thought would tie in there.

Gregg Cohen: 41:46

We are teeing something up. We're going to make a big announcement here in just a minute. But but, you know, put it simply as a property management company, I wanted to give some space for you guys to get to know Andrew because, Andrew makes JWB look good. That's what he does in the face of our resident. And when we look good in the face of our residents, we look good in the face of you. So this is a very, very quality kind of key partner that we have, you guys haven't met. That honestly is one of the reasons that we can perform such wonderful stats on the, on the property management side, from leasing to re reducing maintenance costs, reducing vacancy to. increasing our renewal rates and our average duration of residence stay. It's because of key partners like Andrew.

Pablo Gonzalez: 42:31

Yeah. And I you know, I put in here, I love the way that Andrew's company is thinks outside of the box to add value, right? Cause it's, you hear everything he's saying, and it's not just one thing that you're going to be like, Oh yeah, this is. You know, like this is why I rent here. But if you start stacking all that value up, right? Like I heard a guy say this once, right? If you can, if you can stack your value way higher than your clients stack of cash, you're never going to go out of business. Right. So like, just like the way that you all have like brought to market, all these different perks, all these different things that make the resident life easier. That would make me think twice before I'm like, you know what? I'm just gonna, the apartment down the street is open. I'm going to save 50 bucks a month. I'm going to go over there, you know, like think twice about no man, because I get so much of, of what I get here. And, and my favorite one, the one that really put it on the map for me, Andrew is, is this idea that y'all help people build credit. Um, you want to, you want to talk about that one a little bit?

Andrew Smallwood: 43:27

Absolutely. So I mean, again, it's crazy to think about today. You can on your Netflix subscription, you know, for 20 a month, have that reported to the credit bureaus and like impact your score. And millions of people are doing that, right? To get these small little subscriptions, right? Reported to help build their credit score. And where a third of their income is going every month, their largest monthly expense, their housing payment, that that would be the one thing that isn't contributing their credit score and helping them. But like, it's crazy to think about, but crazy to think about that. That's the case. And so that really bothered us. We're like, this, this is a, this is a solvable problem. And so every month we're taking, Hey, and JWB by the way, does a fantastic job of collecting rent, by the way. Just. As an anecdotal side note, but they do an excellent job collecting rent on time. So more residents are getting this benefit right because of the great processes they have in place, the great screening they have in place, everything else. But when a resident pays their rent on time, we take that information and we report it to the credit bureau so that it's building the resident's score. And the impact of this is massive. It could be massive. We typically see increases of 20 to 40 points in a resident's credit score over the term, right, of their initial lease. Working with for the renewing residents with JB, we can actually back report up to 24 months. And so if they're being enrolled at a point of renewal, they get this huge boost all at one point, which is really cool and really exciting. We actually have an employee on our team at second nature who rents from a property manager. That's a customer of ours. Right. And they actually tracked their credit score over 18 months. And there's some example like this that are extreme. His score went up 72 points. There was a maintenance coordinator of a property management team renting from their company. Their score went up over a hundred points. And. Just the score going up 40 points, by the way, to put that in perspective, the impact of that, right? And you guys, everyone on this call is close to real estate and probably appreciates this more than most people, but your score going up 40 points, that's probably not one tier. That's maybe even two tiers, right? That somebody's moving up. I mean, that is tens of thousands of dollars, right? Over someone's lifetime, maybe a six figure, right? Impact on that cost of credit, right? That they would have otherwise. And it's not just the mortgage that they're going to purchase. It's the auto financing, right? It's the credit card interest rate. It's qualifying for the credit card versus not qualifying for it at all. And access job

Pablo Gonzalez: 45:53

opportunities, right?

Andrew Smallwood: 45:55

Exactly right. Background checks, a number of things. And so, listen, it's a, it's a, our system runs on credit right in the United States. And it's huge to have this impact for people because man, when you make life more affordable outside of rent, it makes paying rent and being a renter, right, easier. And so many people have that goal of getting to home ownership. And this is a huge part to helping them get there.

Gregg Cohen: 46:20

I'll just give you some stats. You know, we talked about huge potential gains out there. Andrew, your team does an awesome job of reporting our company's stats when it comes to how much our residents are improving their own credit scores. So, on the last report that we have from Second Nature, 37 percent of JWB residents have improved their credit scores by taking part in this Residence Benefits Package. An average score improvement of 73. 6 points. Let's go! 73. 6 points. Think about the good we are doing collectively for our residents. And they didn't have to do anything different. They just had to pay the rent on time.

Pablo Gonzalez: 46:57

Yeah.

Gregg Cohen: 46:57

Which is what they were doing anyways. Huge. This is how you can create these wins for folks.

Pablo Gonzalez: 47:01

Yeah. This is how you make the argument of like, you're not lighting money on fire by renting, right? Like you are building something by renting. And Andrew said the word impact, like, I didn't count it, but I, I, I'm estimated like 34 times there which is, which is really why we wanted to have you on for this announcement that we're going to make, I am going to say we do have a surprise that is not this announcement that's going to happen in five, in about five to 10 minutes for the real insiders of our community that have been here for a while, but while we are on this topic of, of impact You know, we had Andrew on here for a reason, and we wanted to talk about this death of the landlord for the, well maybe not death, extinction of landlords, for, for, for a reason GC, and it's because you guys You know, I, I see that JWB is a company that is always asking, how can I make more impact, right? From these like resident benefits packages to the way that you handle clients. And I think you guys are really leveling up with this thing.

Gregg Cohen: 48:00

You know, I mean, it is a constant conversation. It probably happens every day, if not every week, when I sit down with my business partners, when we're talking with our different leaders on our team, we talk about how can we make an impact. And over the years that has continued to evolve and it becomes addicting. Right now, when we're sitting down in our business planning meetings, which we'll go into at the end of October, the question is, how do we make the biggest impact this year? What can we do to make the biggest impact this year? And that's what keeps you motivated, honestly, after doing a business for 18 years. The buying, the selling, the renting, that is all very worthwhile. But It gets to a point where you get so fired up about impact. So what I'm about to share with all of you is maybe the biggest impact we'll ever create on the Jacksonville community. It may be we have been so excited to partner with second nature and to refine our property management experience to where we really believe it's the best renting experience you'll find in Jacksonville. And we really are setting our renters up for success in whatever path they're going. But as we sat down this year, we said, how can we make a bigger impact on our community, on our residents? We said, what can we do to connect the dots even more to homeownership? Because the stats on homeownership versus renting are staggering. The average renter has 8, 000 of net worth. The average homeowner has 300, 000 of net worth. And home ownership is open and is accessible to everyone. Many people feel like they can't attain it, but it is open. It is accessible if you are surrounded by the right team and the right resources. So we said, what can we do to connect the dots and help more of our renters Take part in this beautiful thing called homeownership. How much impact can we have on that family on that household on those kids on those future generations by helping our community take part in homeownership. So I'm really excited to announce. Something with you today that I think is going to change an incredible number of lives here in Jacksonville and abroad. We're announcing JWB's Homestep program. And the Homestep program is the first of its kind that I've heard of. It's the only one in Jacksonville and the surrounding counties where a property management company is actually paying our renters and helping them build wealth. In addition to all the good things we just talked about, now our renters are earning a hundred dollars a month for all of the months that they fulfill the lease with JWB, pay their rent on time, all those good things they're already doing. Now they are earning a hundred dollars a month and this hundred dollars a month goes towards their first home that they either purchase From JWB or get this, it's available to any home in Jacksonville, as long as they're working with JWB Realty. So we're going to be able to put thousands of dollars into the pockets of our clients, excuse me, thousands of dollars into the pockets of our residents as they are saving on closing costs and purchasing their first home through Homestep.

Pablo Gonzalez: 51:05

Awesome. And you have, have you heard of other stuff like this, man? Are people doing things like this?

Andrew Smallwood: 51:12

I just gotta say that's frickin unbelievable. That's really incredible what you guys are doing. I mean, that's so, so exciting. Homestep, I'm gonna make a note and have our team, team track this. We'd love to hear how this is going and what you guys are seeing as you roll this out.

Gregg Cohen: 51:27

Well, we're super excited. This, when we talked about triple win in the beginning, this is a great example where, you know, number one, it's easy to see how our residents, our renters are going to be able to win here as we make it easy and accessible for them to step into home ownership. But the lot of the conversation here was how are we taking care of our clients? Our investor clients do this as well. And one thing we know is that it's very easy to see how folks renters are going to be excited to rent from JWB because we are the only property management company that offers this. And so it's easy to see how your days on market will decrease, which means your vacancy costs, which will decrease, which means your maintenance costs. will decrease, which means your property management excuse me, your property turn costs will decrease. All of those things are like what you talked about. Those tough, painful moments as a rental property investor, they all revolve around maintenance costs, vacancy costs, property turns. So a big part of why this is a win for everybody is not just for helping our residents, but it's for helping you as clients, as we're able to reduce those costs and obviously increase the value of your investments with us.

Pablo Gonzalez: 52:39

Yeah, man, as you're talking about this, there's two things that I'm thinking about. Number one is we've talked so much on this show about how Jacksonville is growing and the economy is just like booming. Second best job market in the U. S., highest rising median income in Florida, right? And all that and all that good stuff. And the economic flywheel that is created by your investments in downtown, by your investments in these neighborhoods, by your investments in, like, the resident experience. And the number one, can pull to plug someone into that is to help them become homeowners, right? So the impact of it is very, very real. Then if I put on my investor hat on there, I'm thinking, you know, I can only imagine what a competitive advantage my property has. Whenever I'm like looking for a resident to move in of saying, Oh yeah, you can write for these other guys or you can come here, build your credit, have a great experience. And oh, by the way, you're gonna, you're going to be able to like save. a nice chunk of change for a down payment for a home without having to do anything at all while you're here so you can get plugged into that economic development flywheel. That, that part really makes my eyes open up.

Gregg Cohen: 53:57

Absolutely. And, and here's something else that we decided to do. You know, obviously we manage close to 6, 000 homes, so there's roughly 6, 000 families that are renting from us right now. We said, what's the right thing to do for all those folks that have been renting for us, renting from us? You know, the average duration of residence stay is four and a half years now. And we said, well, what's the right thing to do here? And so what JWB decided to do is to grandfather all of our current residents into this program. We totaled it up and it comes out to over 16 million that we've committed to give at JWB. We've committed 16 million to our current residents. Once they fulfill that lease and just operate as, as though they are already doing, they're going to have this nice chunk of change that they can use towards their down payment and their closing costs. There's, it's going to total up to 3, 600 is the max amount that they'll be able to earn. So if you have been renting for three years, four years, five years, Before we announced this, you didn't, it was going to cost you 3, 600 more to be able to become a homeowner. Now after this once they enroll in Homestep it's going to be 3, 600 less. Epic. And it's not just the cost here, it is the total suite of services. We've talked a lot about the resident experience and the residence benefits package, but guys, there's so much more helping people become homeowners that JWB is uniquely positioned to help in. I mean, it's the type of homes that we build. I just put the stats together and we've built and sold 262 homes for Jacksonville families in the last five or so years. And 92 percent of those homes were priced below the average price for the city. So it's the type of home, it's the down payment assistance, and the grants that we can help folks take advantage of. I mean, we have folks, renters that become homeowners that don't have to come out of the pocket much at all. Because a lot of that was taken care of in the form of down payment assistance and grants. So it's this total suite of services and what we're trying to do is to lift up our community. And I want you all to feel really good about it too because when you are a JWB investor. This vertically integrated approach is why this is possible and allows us to do these initiatives, give back more to our community and raise everybody up.

Pablo Gonzalez: 56:12

A couple of clarifying questions before I give Andrew his kind of like overall grading of this and how he feels about having brought the resident experience to like this level collectively. not hearing anything about it coming out of my pocket as a, as an investor, right? Like this is not something that's like, I'm giving up some rent in order to do this. This is you all.

Gregg Cohen: 56:34

Correct. There is no cost to the owner the owner of the property, and there is no cost to the renter as well.

Pablo Gonzalez: 56:40

Awesome. Charity had a great question here that you answered half of it, right? I'll just read it all out. Does JWB ever get residents who eventually want to own the property they rent from you because of how well you take care of the property and their experience. How do you handle that personally? Because I want to build wealth. I would want to hold onto my property. At what point do you replace a resident? How does that work? I will summarize this as saying We've talked about bill to rent, like, oh, like rent to own before and how that never actually ends up working out for the homeowner. This is different. This is not, um, rent to own. But it is as an owner, I guess what she's asking is, well, what if I have this like awesome resident that's been there for three years, makes 3, 600 bucks on, on that now, because we've given them 3, 600, they want to move away from my property. I really want to keep my maintained. Um, help me think through that.

Gregg Cohen: 57:28

Guys this, this program does not depend on you selling your house. JWB has more than enough homes to sell, not named client homes, So our message of being this as an opportunity to buy and hold, and build a better retirement account still plays. So no change to that whatsoever. From, from either of the. idea of how to win in rental property investing or logistically what you need to do. So now let's talk about what a rent to own program is and where it fails and how this is better. In a rent to own program, it is possible and quite common for residents of a home that they're doing a rent to own to earn some money that can go towards the future purchase of the home. A, an individual landlord might give a rent credit. It might be 50 a month or 100 a month. But the problem is they're tied to that one home, and in order to get that rent credit, The renter had to put up generally thousands of dollars to put an option deposit down on the home. So they had to come out additionally thousands of dollars in order to get the opportunity to earn 50 or 100 dollars a month. But then what happens is, I know this from experience, Most of the time, those renters never actually take advantage of the Rent to Own program. The reason is, number one, it's hard to go from renter to homeowner if somebody's not helping you and guiding you along the way. And so just flat out, most people never take advantage of it. Or life happens and that house isn't right for them anymore. Or life happens and their credit takes a dive and they run out of time. So for this program, Homestep, you get all the benefits of earning money while you are renting and while you're becoming mortgage ready without those restrictions. You don't have to pay thousands of dollars in order to take part in the program. And there's no limit on when this is available to you. So if it takes you years and years and years, as long as you're continuing to rent with JWB, and as long as you use JWB realty services. You can then use these credits towards any home in the Jacksonville or greater area and surrounding areas. So you're not limited to that one home. So we're really excited about Homestep as a much better alternative than a typical rent to own program. And there's no requirements for you as an owner to change your strategy.

Pablo Gonzalez: 59:46

I love it, man. We're a little bit over on time. We definitely want to do this surprise for everybody. Andrew. You know, you've been championing resident experience now for five years, six years, at least since I've known you, you know, what do you, how, how does it feel to see the thing that you kind of like had been evangelizing for so long, take on these new iterations that, like you said, go beyond even, The scope of what second nature is doing. But in the absolute mission that like aligns you guys, man, just give me, give me a, how are you feeling about this whole thing?

Andrew Smallwood: 1:00:19

I don't know that I feel much personal pride or credit for what we just heard about there. I'm inspired by the example and what you guys are doing. And I think it's exactly the kind of thing. That we want to see in the future of housing experiences in this country. And I think it makes me like, imagine this point 20 years in the future where somebody like me was growing up in Jacksonville and renting from a company like this. And then they helped me become a homeowner, right? And from the very beginning, as opposed to mistrust and distrust on day one, right? And again, that friction and tension, right, that exists and kind of plagues the old relationship. There's a new relationship here, one on a foundation of trust, and how dramatic this example is from what people typically think of a landlord just trying to get everything out of me. Right? Versus trying to help me get where I want to go, even if it may seem on its face a little bit, almost outside of their interest. That's just that much more trust building, right, for the time that I'm there. It makes me want to be that much more cooperative with them while I'm there. And then, by the way, I'm just imagining becoming a homeowner a few years later. And then after being a homeowner for a while, I'm like, you know what? Maybe I should get in this real estate investing game. And what company would I go to first? I sure as hell would go to JWB, right? And the people that are there, that that's who I would go to first. And so I think this makes a lot of sense all the way around. And I love that JWB is thinking about their customer relationships on a multi decade right type of type of time period. And that that would make me feel great. Whether I'm an investor, whether I'm a renter or somebody working at the company. So I just want to say kudos guys. This is a really exciting program and excited to track it and see how it's going.

Pablo Gonzalez: 1:02:02

Yeah, before you leave us here, Andrew, I want to just read what Jeff Lenvey says, avoiding zero sum relationships, creating win win or win win win situations is an ideal to strive for in all areas of life, man. I love that Jeff, like a thousand percent. I think that is something that the three of us here on this call really brings us together. Andrew, thanks for coming on again, man. I really just, I love hearing you talk. I, I did my best to not mention category design all call, but you did it, Pablo. You did it. I barely, I almost did it until I just did it right now. You're a master of language, man. and like just a guy that shows up exactly how I want to show up in all, in all things, which is how I feel about Greg as well. So I'm just pumped to be in this room, but thanks for being here, buddy. And thanks for being part of this announcement. GC, I'll give you kind of like a, a, a send off for Andrew. Oh, before that second nature, second nature. com, right? Like I like to, I I've been teaching these real estate classes of like what to expect from a, from a property manager, whether, and, and like people are like, what do I do if I'm not doing it in Jacksonville? I'm always like, go to second nature, ask people at second nature, who sets the standard in each market of the property manager. Because you, you all really have been the flag bearers of what it is to do professional property management with a triple win situation, the way that all investors should strive for. So secondnature. com, reach out to Andrew or his team. And now I'll leave it to you. Yeah,

Gregg Cohen: 1:03:29

man, I just appreciate your time for being here. I always feel like there's just like a brotherhood when we're, when we're just talking and it's, it goes beyond the product of the service that we're offering, right? It's the way that we interact. It's the way that we get to communicate with each other. And it's just, it's fun to be a part of something where. You feel like not just that you're doing well within the thing that you're selling, but that the person on the other side is benefiting more. And I feel that with Andrew, every time we sit down together, I feel that and that mentality has permeated our relationship. between Second Nature and JWB. I can't tell you the praises that our team sings about working with your team over at Second Nature. So, if anybody has any opportunity in the property management space and you want an incredible relationship with somebody that's going to make your property management team better, make sure you reach out to Second Nature.

Pablo Gonzalez: 1:04:18

Cool. Now we've got some really good news. Big surprise, I dunno. For, for those of you who have been with us for, for some time, I think you remember my favorite segment here on the show and it's when Madison shares good news and Madison is back. She is coming to share some. We wanna share some good news with you Madison. Hi

Maddison: 1:04:39

everybody.

Pablo Gonzalez: 1:04:40

Welcome back. Welcome back to the Not Drivers Investor Show.

Maddison: 1:04:43

I feel like I haven't been here forever,

Pablo Gonzalez: 1:04:44

right?

Maddison: 1:04:45

Lights are brighter than I remember, but that's okay.

Pablo Gonzalez: 1:04:49

You're made for the bright lights.

Maddison: 1:04:50

I hope so

Pablo Gonzalez: 1:04:52

So so some great news is Madison is uh, Madison is moving on to like the next chapter of her life She's got some really exciting things to share and you want to tell you want to tell us all what's going on

Maddison: 1:05:01

Yeah, I can give you guys a little update. So it's good news, but also bittersweet news I Will be still working a little bit with JWB so you can't get rid of me that easily You But I am actually moving to Japan. Just down the road. Just around the corner, I skip hop and a jump. So, I had a big kind of adult moment in my life. I'm also getting married. So

Pablo Gonzalez: 1:05:31

lucky Fell lucky

Maddison: 1:05:32

fella. Lucky Fell's. So weird. But yeah, I am going to be on my next adventure very soon, so I wanted to come in and, and say hi and bye again before I left.

Pablo Gonzalez: 1:05:42

Well, we wanted you to come in and be able to us, us to save. Bye dude, you see, you kinda, you got, you got some stuff to share?

Gregg Cohen: 1:05:49

Man, I just, it's been two and a half years or so?

Pablo Gonzalez: 1:05:52

Oh

Maddison: 1:05:52

yeah.

Gregg Cohen: 1:05:52

Yeah, two and a half years since I got the pleasure of working with Madison, and I just wanted you to know, and for everybody to know, What an incredible talent you are. And you know, two and a half, the last two and a half years to market and sell your products and services have been the most challenging time to market and sell your services. And there has been an incredible amount of challenges that we have overcome. And there's been one backbone on the JWB marketing team. And it's been, it's been Madison. She has been here. And all of the new initiatives and all of the new things we've rolled out on all the things that we've modified, Madison has been here and she has been just an unbelievable, wonderful teammate. You all got to know her here on the show for sharing good news. And if you came to the summit, you got to meet her as well. And she's just you're just destined for greatness. And I just want to say thank you for everything you've done for our team and for our community. I

Maddison: 1:06:48

grew a lot here. I learned a lot. Made a lot of great friends and connections with the community and just the people around JW B, they really mean it when they say culture is huge here. It doesn't, you, you don't get rid of it.

Pablo Gonzalez: 1:07:00

Yeah. I, I, I, three things come to mind for me. One is. When I think of you, well, first of all, the first thing that comes to mind is man, what an opportunity like you're in your 20s You're moving to Japan. You're getting married like talk about like a Great like moment in time to go do this thing I can't wait to see what you're up to and what your future is and like all these things are gonna happen I think this dude is a super smart super lucky guy for doing this but When I think of you, I, I think of how we always like the ongoing joke was Madison's job description is a mystery to everyone and we, and we would consistently ask you to do different things that require the level of bravery that's uncommon. And everything that you, and you always said yes and everything you did, you did well. and that's so, that's so valuable in a teammate. It's so valuable in an employee. I think if you ever become an entrepreneur, it's going to, it's going to be like the thing that helps you succeed. and the last thing is we're going to clip this out and you put this on your resume. Cause I think it's a great, it's a great testament to who you are. So man, it's been awesome working with you and being your friend. Yeah,

Maddison: 1:08:12

it's been really good. I'm going to miss everybody.

Pablo Gonzalez: 1:08:15

Yeah. Yeah. And the last thing is, I don't know if everybody knows this, but Madison had her first contribution here. Was something very, very significant, but something very significant. So I think it would be great if you send this off here, Madison, based on your experience of being a part of this show. Based on your experience working here at JWB, learning marketing, doing all the things that you've done. Do you have any advice for our community?

Maddison: 1:08:44

Yeah. The biggest piece of advice would be don't be average.

Pablo Gonzalez: 1:08:48

Don't be average. Madison invented that everybody. See y'all.