The first holidays after a divorce can be tough. We call it the "Year of Firsts." It's the first Christmas, Passover, Birthday, Fourth of July, and even Super Bowl Sunday while separated. Questions abound such as:
Surviving the holidays after divorce can be challenging. Divorce experts Mark C. Hill, CFP®, CDFA®, Financial Divorce Consultant; Peter Roussos, MA, MFT, CST, psychotherapist; and Shawn Weber, CLS-F*, Family Law Mediator and Divorce Attorney, discuss legal, financial, and emotional aspects of the first holidays after divorce.
*Certified Specialist - Family Law
The State Bar of California Board of Legal Specialization
The Three Wisemen of Divorce are divorce experts Mark C. Hill, CFP®, CDFA®, Financial Divorce Consultant; Peter Roussos, MA, MFT, CST, psychotherapist; and Shawn Weber, CLS-F*, Family Law Mediator and Divorce Attorney.
© 2024 Weber Dispute Resolution. All rights reserved.
The first holidays after a divorce can be tough. We call it the "Year of Firsts." It's the first Christmas, Passover, Birthday, Fourth of July, and even Super Bowl Sunday while separated. Questions abound such as:
Surviving the holidays after divorce can be challenging. Divorce experts Mark C. Hill, CFP®, CDFA®, Financial Divorce Consultant; Peter Roussos, MA, MFT, CST, psychotherapist; and Shawn Weber, CLS-F*, Family Law Mediator and Divorce Attorney, discuss legal, financial, and emotional aspects of the first holidays after divorce.
*Certified Specialist - Family Law
The State Bar of California Board of Legal Specialization
The Three Wisemen of Divorce are divorce experts Mark C. Hill, CFP®, CDFA®, Financial Divorce Consultant; Peter Roussos, MA, MFT, CST, psychotherapist; and Shawn Weber, CLS-F*, Family Law Mediator and Divorce Attorney.
© 2024 Weber Dispute Resolution. All rights reserved.
As an Englishman, what is this obsession with pumpkin pie? I mean, I ate it once and I thought, okay, there's apple here. I'm gonna go with the apple and
Shawn Weber:You know what though, we've had English food Welcome to the three wise men of divorce, money, Psych, and law podcast. Sit down with the California divorce experts financial divorce consultant Mark Hill, marriage and family therapist, Pete Russo's and attorney Shawn Weber. For a frank and casual conversation about divorce, separation, co parenting and the difficult decisions, real people like you face during these tough times. We know that if you are looking at divorce or separation, it can be scary and overwhelming. With combined experience of over 60 years of divorce and conflict management, we are here for you and look forward to help by sharing our unique ideas, thoughts and perspectives on divorce, separation, and co parenting.
Mark Hill:So, Shawn, the holidays are coming up,
Shawn Weber:that they are
Mark Hill:Pete, do people ever get kind of concerned about this when divorce is in the air, when when the holidays are coming up, and they've traditionally done things in certain ways. And they wonder how they're changing circumstances with their spouse might impact this.
Peter Roussos:So I think every single time this is, you know, the the year I think of the year of firsts that for families that are going through a divorce, and what's it like to go through that first holiday season? And particularly if the decision to divorce is is, you know, relatively recent. And the CO parents are trying to figure out do you celebrate the holidays together? What's going to be better for the kids? You know, that that first holiday period? If a if a co parenting pant plan is in place, and the holidays have been outlined and scheduled and divided? What's it like for the parent who is going for through the first Thanksgiving that they have gone through without their kids? There's just so much stuff around the holidays? Yeah.
Shawn Weber:I mean, there's a lot I've seen people do it different ways, or they're in different stages of their divorce, like the people that are just barely starting. Maybe they haven't told the kid so then they do Christmas together, ironically, together, and they're pretending that we're all happy family.
Mark Hill:And the worry they have about family members. They've told about this. So we're going to have a couple of drinks and or even attack the spouse over what they've heard. You know, there's camps being established. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I've seen
Shawn Weber:one thing I've learned in divorce is Blood is thicker than water. Yeah, yeah. And people when they hear there's a divorce, the automatic tendency is to divide into camps and circle around your relative. But yeah, if you I mean, that's a whole other podcast we could probably do is talking to extended family about how to how you want to divorce and how you want to be a whole other discussion.
Mark Hill:Because candidly, the family members are doing what they think is right and appropriate to protect their relative and, you know, they don't know what they don't know. And they know that the table so
Shawn Weber:well, and then there's you hit on this, there's that profound sense of loss. That becomes more acute, when there's an important holiday. You know, you have those Norman Rockwell pictures that people have in their mind of what Christmas is going to be like, for example, and I'll be home for Christmas. You can count on this, except I'm getting divorced. I'm not really gonna be home.
Mark Hill:Yeah, well,
Peter Roussos:it's actually is we're talking about this. I'm thinking about the other scenario that I've had just numerous times over the years where a couple has made the decision to divorce. And then they decide that they they, you know, they want their kids to have one last holiday together. And how and I understand that intention. But they're not necessarily doing their children any favors, if they can't carry that off in a collaborative way. Yes, right. It's complicated. It's a really complicated thing to try to navigate, or this one
Shawn Weber:that I actually saw on a case where they held it together for the holidays. And then on New Year's Day, or shortly thereafter, they broke it to the kids, they were getting a divorce. And then these kids, they were teenagers, and they're like, Well, what it was all the stuff we did at Christmas where you just pretending was yeah, you know, it actually made it much worse for them. Yeah, so figuring out the timing can be an issue. You can't do?
Mark Hill:Absolutely somebody quoted me a saying from I can't remember which language it was, but a foreign language was basically comes down to saying some families only look good in pictures. Interesting, interesting way to look at it in terms of, you know, going through the motions for a holiday, you know? Yeah, yeah.
Shawn Weber:Well, there's nothing wrong. Is there Pete with getting divorced and then still spending the holidays together?
Peter Roussos:No, absolutely. No, I appreciate you saying that, Shawn. Absolutely. But I think part of what we're talking about is when when, when parents because of their own, maybe it's a sense of guilt about the divorce or sense of fear how that the children are going to do that they try to enact something with, maybe the intentions are right, but if they can't deliver, then it can create this, I think different kinds of confusion and pain on the back end of it.
Shawn Weber:And it's much worse to try to have the holidays together and then be ready to kill each other. And
Peter Roussos:yeah, yeah.
Shawn Weber:Then just if you just had them separate. Yeah,
Peter Roussos:you don't want Boxing Day to literally become boxing, right? Yes. Yes, yeah. Yeah.
Shawn Weber:Boxing Day. Yeah. Yeah. You're just you're just maybe you're not fighting, but it's just so tense and awful. Yeah. Because kids aren't stupid they can? Yeah. You know, I've met with hundreds of kids over the years talking about their parents divorce. And I'd say most of them will tell me Oh, we weren't surprised. They were so relieved when we heard from this angle of getting divorce. You know that that's a very common thing. And I think a lot of times, the parents are more worried about the children, when it's really their own feelings that are kind of coming out. We have to keep it together for the kids. And really, they got to try to keep it together for themselves. And the kids really would benefit if you would just be real. Yeah,
Mark Hill:like the conversation we have around the house some times, oh, the children. House, you talk to the children, they go, we don't care where we live, we just want mom and dad to stop screaming at each other. I've literally I've been I've heard that, you know,
Shawn Weber:the kids always do better than the parents.
Peter Roussos:Yeah, it's interesting to think about it in terms of you know, if the kids are at an appropriate age, what would it be like? Because it could be, I think, profoundly collaborative. If if parents in a position like that, where they're not yet divorced, are able to sit down with the children and have a very appropriate conversation about what's happening. And so let's talk about the holidays, guys, what would feel right to you, you know, would you like us to celebrate it? Yeah, to be able to have that kind of discussion. Now, that requires a level of collaboration and cooperation between the co-parents. And I think there's a certain amount of, in some ways, grieving that each person has to do or prep work that each person has to do prior to being able to do that. But it is I think, I've seen the the consequences of of what it looks like when right after the holidays, a divorce is announced and kids are confused and devastated or feel like it was a bit of a bait and switch all of these things that I've heard kids describe.
Mark Hill:And kids really just want to know what the future is going to look like, now they're going to have a relationship with both parents. I mean, that is, especially if they're younger. And so giving, you know, going through the motions of a Thanksgiving and having it be awkward and strange, with no idea what's gonna happen down the road, because you haven't worked that parenting plan out yet. That I think is almost more damaging. And just saying, Hey, we're doing something different this year. Yeah. By the way, my son did complain one time that he was required to have three Thanksgiving dinners, and he wasn't going to eat the third one.
Shawn Weber:Just gonna bring that up, Mark. I haven't had a kid complain yet about having two Christmases.
Mark Hill:No my son's comment was that he felt sorry for kids who weren't divorced because they only got one Christmas.
Shawn Weber:Right? I mean, the kids again, the kids are not taking this as hard as the parents aren't I sometimes I get parents that are fixated on the day, Christmas Day, or, you know, I don't want to focus just on the Christian holidays, but I'm just using this example Christmas day. You know, that the day you know, and the kids are fine. You know, I've even seen Santa Claus go to two separate houses, he'll do that you can make that happen. We just have to let them know.
Mark Hill:And sometimes the traditions in the families work with my ex wife. They did Christmas presents on Christmas Eve, we await Christmas morning, it was easy to make that transition, he'd go to his mom's or to his grandma's on her side. And then I go pick him up, or she dropped him off on Christmas morning.
Shawn Weber:So when I meet with folks, I have them put a list together of the holidays and special days that matter to them. Yeah. And you'll you'll be, you'll be amazed what certain days come up, you know, like, they won't care about Christmas so much, but Super Bowl Sunday. That was the day that they had to make sure that they alternated from odd and even years. You know, so if there's a day like that, that really matters? Or maybe you don't celebrate the Christian holidays, it's the Jewish holidays, or it's something else. Yeah. Just finding out what matters to the family. And there are certain patterns that we see that are typical with every family, but but some families do it differently. And then I'm surprised at what matters to them.
Peter Roussos:So what are the I'm curious for you both legal slash financial kinds of challenges that can arise around holiday.
Mark Hill:Well, Pete alluded to one is where they parents try to out compete themselves to buy a nicer presents for the kids. And then, you know, they fight about it later. How dare you spend$1,000 on Johnny's birthday present or Christmas present, you knew I was only going to give him something worth $100. I mean, I'm for but that kind of thing. You know, it's an extension of the Disneyland dad concept.
Shawn Weber:Or here's here's a really gross one that I actually experienced where a child told me that the father said to the child, I can't get you that x box because I'm paying your mother child support.
Peter Roussos:Oh, wow.
Shawn Weber:Wow. Right? We all just kind of go Ooh. That's not something a kid needs to hear. Even if it is true. Yeah. You know, you don't throw the other parent under the bus. Or maybe just maybe you can talk to each other about what presidents we want to get the kids this year is like you did when you were married, and what's coming up with maybe we both get an X Box, and it says from mom and dad.
Mark Hill:And I've seen another thing, I saw another thing to where the kid was given a weapon. A teenage kid was given a weapon. And the husband knew full well wife did not approve of weapons or guns in the household. And it was like, just in your face is exactly what it felt like when I heard that occurred.
Shawn Weber:Well, and that's a thing, you know, values. You know, some people are gun enthusiast, and some aren't.
Mark Hill:Yep.
Shawn Weber:Some people have different political perspectives. Some people have different religious perspective, what if you have the cross religion family where you have one person that's Jewish and another person that's Christian, my mind immediately goes to oh, well, then all the Jewish holidays are going to be with the Jewish person and all the Christian holidays will be with the Christian person, but then I find out well, you know, I'm Jewish. But you know, that was a tradition in our family. And it's important I like to spend Christmas with my children, even though I personally am Jewish. Or I want to, you know, the Passover is wonderful. I want to be part of a Seder. But then how do you, you know, and then people are like, Well, why are you being so selfish? Are your your Christian, why do you want the Jewish holidays, you have to navigate that minefield. But if people can talk to each other and be kind of real honest about what matters to them. In a mediation context, or collaborative divorce context, we're uniquely situated to be able to help them because the default that court you know, you're asking about the legalities B is just simply divide the holidays, odd and even years. And it usually ends up I've even seen courts divide all holidays on the same day.
Mark Hill:So they do that with Superbowl Sunday too
Shawn Weber:be well, if you want.
Mark Hill:I know. But it's not something that's on their radar. And it's not something that normally her knees would ask about or that judges would say, by the way, do you care about Superbowl Sunday? It
Shawn Weber:would only come up event right up in the plains.
Peter Roussos:I think it's this year, you get the Super Bowl next year, you get the Pro Bowl. That's
Mark Hill:well, the flag football games. Yeah, that looks like fun. Right?
Peter Roussos:The you know, we're timing here. We're thinking about the end of Year holidays, Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Year's Hanukkah. Here's the other thing I found myself thinking about is I'm curious for the two of you, the end of a calendar year can bring a sense of pressure as it relates to getting a divorce process done, perhaps. Right, I think about tax implications and things like that. What are those kinds of what's your experience of those kinds of pressures, then complicating the holiday experience? does that play out? Is that an issue, you find
Shawn Weber:it play out just in people's mood. So you know, at the end of the year, I get a rush of people that want to get divorced before the end of the year, and for tax reasons or whatever. And so we're rushing to get everything in before the calendar year ends, and then that puts pressure on the family. And then I've seen that bleed into. I've seen parenting issues just blow up. And I always feel like it's kind of collateral damage is the result of the increased pressure. The other thing when I used to litigate, I learned not to go on vacation during the holidays. Because my phone was ringing off the hook with problems. Where people wanted me to go to court ex parte for rhythm emergency hearings, Oh, this isn't working. And now that I'm doing things outside of court, we see that a lot less because people are being cooperative, collaborative, there's something about a mediation process that brings out better behavior. Whereas when it's a courtroom, kind of a situation, people are adversarial anyway. And so then what happens is it becomes a zero sum game. Oh, well, if he gets five minutes on Christmas, that means I'm losing five minutes on Christmas. You know, that happens too. So yeah, I think I think legalities can or just, we don't have as much money. Yeah, because our cost of living is less. And that's making us stressed about the holidays. I mean, I've had holidays, as a parent of five kids, where we didn't have as much money as we did in the year before. And it's stressful, because you want to have a nice holiday experience for the kids. Yeah,
Mark Hill:I find that the the number of clients who want to get divorced because they are they want to file separate tax returns is pretty small. Generally, most cases, people are better off filing a joint return, even if they, you know, everything's done, they will wait till the beginning of January to file it so they can file a joint return for the current tax year. What I find is that a lot of people just want it done by the Mmm, it seems like it's emotional. It's a guillotine, I want it cut off here. I'm done with this, I can't go into 2023 and still not be divorced. That's what I see a lot of.
Shawn Weber:There's another thing January 1 through January 31. I call the divorce season. And that is because people have made their New Year's resolutions to leave their spouse, and they've made it through the holidays, he made a pass at your sister at Thanksgiving, and you're done. Or maybe you just didn't, you know this, you're holding out for the holidays, you know, and then you can't handle it anymore. And so you resolve, we tend to do that at the beginning of the year, we're thinking about what we want to change in our lives. And so the divorce attorneys phone rings off the hook. And so I learned that that is the time to I also don't travel in January because I want to be available to folks that are going to call for business reasons. Right. But also because they need help.
Mark Hill:I have a friendly amendment, Shawn.
Shawn Weber:Yeah.
Mark Hill:Take it through January. Sorry, February the 15th. Yeah, probably right. Because Valentine's Day is sometimes the straw that breaks the camel's back. He didn't make it special. And we
Shawn Weber:did a podcast on that in an earlier podcast where we, yeah, how you can screw Valentine's Day up when the divorce happens.
Mark Hill:It's the final straw
Shawn Weber:that broke the camel's back. Exactly.
Peter Roussos:You said something, Shawn, a couple of minutes ago that I want to expand on because you're talking about the importance of people being able to, to talk about what's important to them. And I think the other aspect of that kind of communication that I think is vital to really increase the potential for divorcing partners to be able to, to be collaborative as they think about the holidays is for each person to be able to talk about what's important to them. And why why is it important? I think being able to articulate the meaning behind it, why it has that sense of importance, that that does, I think increased the potential and the likelihood for people to be empathetic towards each other, to be compassionate towards each other to be generous towards each other, particularly if they can establish a kind of give and take. You know, I think the the healthiest divorces that we see are those where both partners have the sense that the other person is willing to be considerate and empathic and generous. They're willing to be flexible in order to accommodate both parties operating that way, are able to to really, I think create the healthiest possible kinds of outcomes. And it's interesting in the context of what we're talking about. That's also the kind of mindset in spirit that would allow divorce Some partners to be together as co-parents celebrating holidays with their kids together in the healthiest way possible.
Shawn Weber:I agree with that completely with one friendly amendment. And that is a very high conflict case. I found that why tends to be more problematic because people start rehearsing all the dysfunctions that went wrong that got them here in the first place. But for most people, I think you're absolutely correct. If it's not a super high conflict case, and the the emotional functioning is on a normal level, we don't have like personality disorders or disordered thinking that's going on. And I think the why is very important, because it leads to motivation, which helps people understand where you were might coming from what's my interest in this? I think it's a very important piece of dispute resolution, just understanding where the other person's coming from. To me, because, you know, sorry, Mark,
Mark Hill:bringing the focus back to the children. Yeah, that's very powerful around the holidays, because we always say, you know, Christmas is for the kids or whatever. That's, you see that in even in advertising. So, so to take away from what do I feel like I'm losing to how can we, we make sure we give the children what they need, I think is a very powerful, you know, I always say I use the children mercilessly in the divorce, because candidly, they're the one thing that clients generally still agree on. And, you know,
Shawn Weber:I have had the case where they thought about who had to take the kids at the holiday? Like, no, I take them, I don't want to deal with
Mark Hill:it. Yeah,
Peter Roussos:I don't like the timeshare. Right? Well, and it's a huge you were talking Mark, I was thinking about what's the experience, like for the two of you, when you realize that you're dealing with, with divorcing partners, who are so at odds with each other, they're unwilling or uncapable, of focusing on the children.
Mark Hill:And we do see that,
Shawn Weber:you see that? Well, then I just make it about proposals. Take the like I said, before I take the "why" out of it, we're gonna care about why who, what, where, when, how never why, when it's a high conflict situation like that. And then I make it about proposals, and it becomes a lot like a, you know, you make this proposal now I can counter proposal and
Mark Hill:so to do working with you, I've seen you do that. So skillfully, when it's almost like an attack from one spouse to the other to go, I think I heard a proposal and that, and you pull out that, and then we are actually into a process that can yield results, as opposed to well, if he's gonna say all that I gotta get my licks in to,
Shawn Weber:you know, people used to think by their magic until you tell him that I secrets. No, it's true. I mean, a complaint is a proposal in disguise. Yeah, I've said that before. And so a good mediator. Good therapist, can reframe the complaint into a proposal? He always does this or he, you know, he never pays attention to the children on Christmas Day. So what you want is for him to be available and pay attention to the children on Christmas Day. That's what you're looking for. Yeah. Well, sir, are you willing to be available and pay attention to children Christmas? You know, and then you can kind of and then what does that look like? Well, what does paying attention to children mean to you? Yeah. You know, go. Do it. Like the Colombo approach when you're the practitioner is you just keep drilling. In the Colombo approach, just one more thing? You know, it's one more question. Just and I'll play dumb. I'll get real curious. You know, I don't understand. Okay, so. So when you're at home, and it's Christmas time, what does? What does it mean? If he's paying attention to the kid? would that look like to you? What's happening now? What would be different? You know, and just really drill down?
Mark Hill:Yeah, because it takes it away from the complaint, and the bitterness in order to try to have at least identify what could change that. And that's what you're making them do. They're sure,
Shawn Weber:when you're helping, you're helping the other party, see what the person's interest is, you know, it's like you're a translator. You know, we see these complaints and they're like, an airplane that never lands is the same complaint and they're not hearing each other. And if you can short circuit that and get it so that they can hear it from a different a different way or a different perspective, kind of get them off of their usual pattern. And then you can start you know, then people when people can see where she's coming from, oh, I get it. She's not just complaining about me. She really just really wants the children to have me more involved with them.
Peter Roussos:It I think it's often also in some ways unpacking I think a lot of the dynamic is often that actually the partners understand each other, quite clearly. But they do not agree. And so what looks like a lack of understanding is really I'm not going to stipulate to that. I don't have a positioning. Yeah. And so being able to unpack and I think related to the complaint within the complaint is a proposal or the kind of absolute language that we'll hear clients use the other thing that people are often way more comfortable, articulating is what they don't want. So how to take that and recast that into
Mark Hill:what they don't want the other person to do.
Shawn Weber:What I want is for him to not. And that's another approach that a practitioner can use is to, instead of turning it into a rule, he will someone said will not do X, you turn it into a value. It is important to me that the children have both parents available to them during the holidays. Okay, well, what does that look like regarding the father of your children, it will be very important for him to be available and pay attention to the children during the holiday. Right. So I mean, that that the value instead of I don't want him to just watch this football game. You know, instead of a rule of a don't, it becomes a do.
Peter Roussos:And I think for so many of those things, when when we cast them in that kind of language, most of the time, they absolutely agree that that's important. Yeah.
Shawn Weber:Yeah, and the holidays are one of those things that are just, it goes to the core of what's hard with divorce. And that is that there's a sense that the family is broken, the traditions are lost, that opportunities are lost, there's the grief of what could be you know,
Mark Hill:so you know, the, I think, communicate, is the first thing out of the box that I would say, communicate, don't be so scared of the upcoming holidays, that you don't want to talk about it because they're going to come inexorably, they're on the way. So just I don't want to deal with him or her around this. But then suddenly, it will be the week before Thanksgiving, and people are getting invitations. And what why did, why are we doing this? So communicate early. And really now is the time
Shawn Weber:and focus on the children.
Mark Hill:Yep.
Shawn Weber:And another piece that I pulled from that is, recognize and be okay, with, there's a loss that you're experiencing. And that that's okay. And recognize where your grief doesn't necessarily overlap with what your children are experiencing.
Peter Roussos:I think, you know, part of the, the theme that we're talking about is resiliency to what can people do in terms of their self care, just to be able to maintain their sense of of, of behavior, being appropriate, being respectful, being considerate. So self care is really important holidays, drinking, being careful about alcohol consumption, those kinds of things for people to be tuning into. You know, we've talked before about the importance of a mission statement for couples that are going through a divorce process and the vision that they have for how they want to get through it, what they want to arrive at on the other side, I think using that same kind of process for defining how they want this holiday period to go, being able to talk with each other about what they want this experience to be for themselves for the children, depending on the ages of the kids to the extent to which they talk with the children about that.
Shawn Weber:Yeah, and a corollary to that being willing to be flexible. Yeah. You know, it may not be the way the Norman Rockwell painting portrayed it but it can still be a wonderful holiday. And be flexible, be willing to compromise and don't be rigid. And you're more than likely to have success of the holidays. I do like what you said about self care that I just kind of came back to that in my head. I did. You know, you hear the statistic the statistic that suicides increased during the holidays and I think there's a reason for that. And I think suicides also increased during divorces. Yeah, depression at least does. So that's self care. Make sure you're okay and if frankly if you if you if you find that you're not okay, that's why you should hire people like Pete
Peter Roussos:asked for help. Absolutely. For help, right. Yeah. I think the holidays these kinds of special times and If they intensify, either the anticipatory grief process if people are on the front end of a divorce process, and then post divorce, there's this different level and kind of grief that people have to go through as they go through this year first, and they're adjusting to the post divorce lifestyle and what that means for them visa vie the relationships with their children and family members, all of that there's a lot of loss associated with those kinds of changes in ritual.
Mark Hill:Yes, you know, I have had the reported because I seldom meet with the children individually, but children's saying things like, Well, what's going to happen with all our traditions, all the things we always do? What are we going to go get pumpkins? Are we going to, you know, who's are we going to go to grandma's? As we always do for Thanksgiving? You know, sometimes the parents just don't know. And but, but that helps inform the conversation, asking, What do you think your children are going to experience here? That does two things. One is it gets us the information in order to be able to work with them. But it also has the focus back on the children away from what their concerns are. Yeah.
Shawn Weber:Well, that's a lot isn't it?
Mark Hill:It is yeah
Shawn Weber:And again, be willing to cut yourself some slack. Be flexible, ask for help when you need it.
Peter Roussos:And don't over clove the pumpkin pie for crying out loud. Okay. Right.
Shawn Weber:But, you know, there's a debate in our household whether it's cool whip cream,
Peter Roussos:why does it have to be either or
Shawn Weber:reject the binary.
Mark Hill:Englishman. What is this obsession with pumpkin pie? I mean, I ate it once. And I thought, okay, there's apple here. I'm gonna go with the apple. And
Shawn Weber:you know what, though? We've had English food and
Mark Hill:Yeah, but that was decades ago before Gordon Ramset. Shut up.
Shawn Weber:My daughter is obsessed with Great British Bake Off.
Mark Hill:I some peope are, yes.
Shawn Weber:I don't understand why you'd have to go to a beautiful, lovely estate and then cook everything in a tent outside. I understood that that's for Yeah, well,
Mark Hill:colonial thinking, What can I tell you?
Shawn Weber:Like the Renaissance Festival? We're going to do it a tent, and then afterwards, they'll be jousting. Anyway, all right, well, Mark if they want to talk to you about their money, as it relates to the holidays and divorce and other things, what should they do?
Mark Hill:Look for my website Pacific divorce management is the company the website is dub dub dub, Pacdivorce.com, Pac di, V, O, R, C,
Shawn Weber:and P. Their feeling down? They need some help. With the grief and the struggles of divorce and the year of first what should they do?
Peter Roussos:Easiest way to reach me is also through my website Peter Russo's dot com. PE te R. I'm sorry, I'm starting my email addressed by Peter rousseff.com, peterroussos.com.
Shawn Weber:And if you want to deal with your dispute, from a legal standpoint, go to Weber dispute resolution.com Again, that's WeberDisputeResolution.com That's Weber with a with one b like the grill. Alright guys, well, happy holidays.
Peter Roussos:Yeah.
Shawn Weber:Thanks for listening to another episode of the three Wiseman divorce, money, Psych, and law. If you liked what you heard, be sure to subscribe. Leave us a review and share with others who may be in a similar place. Until next time, stay safe, healthy and focused on a positive, bright future. This podcast is for informational purposes only. Every family law case is unique. So no legal, financial or mental health advice is intended during this podcast. If you need help with your specific situation, feel free to schedule a time to speak with one of us for a personal consultation.