Custody and coparenting during the summer can be challenging enough. Add COVID-19 to the mix and it gets really hard. What happens if the co-parents disagree about coronavirus safety precautions? Do parents agree on whether camps or sports are safe? Is a co-parent, a child or a new significant other in a high-risk group and how will that impact visitation? Sit down with Mark Hill, CFP, CDFA, Scott Weiner, JD, Ph.D. and Shawn Weber, Attorney and Mediator as they discuss the complexities of custody and visitation during the COVID-19 pandemic.
Presented by Financial Divorce Consultant Mark Hill, CFP®, CDFA®, Psychologist Scott Weiner, Ph.D., J.D. and Attorney and Mediator Shawn Weber, CLS-F.
The Three Wisemen of Divorce are divorce experts Mark C. Hill, CFP®, CDFA®, Financial Divorce Consultant; Peter Roussos, MA, MFT, CST, psychotherapist; and Shawn Weber, CLS-F*, Family Law Mediator and Divorce Attorney.
© 2024 Weber Dispute Resolution. All rights reserved.
Custody and coparenting during the summer can be challenging enough. Add COVID-19 to the mix and it gets really hard. What happens if the co-parents disagree about coronavirus safety precautions? Do parents agree on whether camps or sports are safe? Is a co-parent, a child or a new significant other in a high-risk group and how will that impact visitation? Sit down with Mark Hill, CFP, CDFA, Scott Weiner, JD, Ph.D. and Shawn Weber, Attorney and Mediator as they discuss the complexities of custody and visitation during the COVID-19 pandemic.
Presented by Financial Divorce Consultant Mark Hill, CFP®, CDFA®, Psychologist Scott Weiner, Ph.D., J.D. and Attorney and Mediator Shawn Weber, CLS-F.
The Three Wisemen of Divorce are divorce experts Mark C. Hill, CFP®, CDFA®, Financial Divorce Consultant; Peter Roussos, MA, MFT, CST, psychotherapist; and Shawn Weber, CLS-F*, Family Law Mediator and Divorce Attorney.
© 2024 Weber Dispute Resolution. All rights reserved.
Welcome to the Three Wise Men of divorce, money, psych and law podcast. Sit down with the California divorce experts, financial divorce consultant Mark Hill, psychologist Scott Weiner and attorney Sean Weber for a frank and casual conversation about divorce, separation, co parenting, and the difficult decisions real people like you face during these tough times. We know that if you are looking at divorce or separation, it can be scary and overwhelming. With combined experience of over 70 years of divorce and conflict management. We are here for you and look forward to helping you by sharing our unique ideas, thoughts and perspectives on divorce, separation and co parenting. Okay, we're here for another week. Of the three wise men of divorce, guys this week. It's summer as we're speaking now fourth of June. Ally's about to happen. It's, we're recording this on July 3. People are having barbecues. It's hot outside. People are playing outside the beaches are filling up with people. It's this wonderful, exciting summer except Oh, wait, is there a problem? You have that problem? And it's called COVID-19. And so this week's podcast is custody, co parenting COVID-19 and the cruel hot summer. Did you like how I got some alliteration in that title? I
Mark Hill :like that you did
Shawn Weber :very well. I got four C's in a row.
Mark Hill :Congratulations.
Scott Weiner :Sounds like my report card. We've done it.
Shawn Weber :Yeah, but But no, seriously. So every place is doing this a little differently. I mean, we're in San Diego and I'm looking outside my office. We're close to the water here and I see the airplanes flying over with the banners. The beaches are full. There are a lot the beach parking lot here is really fun. people or people are experiencing summer, but then we read in the newspaper that there's spikes and I don't want to get all, you know, like whether we should go out or not have that conversation. But what we do have is you have sometimes you have parents with different points of view about what kind of safety measures their families should be taking. And maybe it was hard enough when they were still married to agree on things like this, but now they're living in separate households and they don't see eye to eye but yet they're sharing children.
Scott Weiner :I'm hearing about it every week. Are you? Yeah, I'm hearing about it in session. I got a call for a new case today about this might be a highly problematic mediation because there's different standards in another state north of us from our standards here. And a community that is fairly remote is where That one parent lives and is making the actually relatively valid argument that it's safer there. And however, you know, it's a, what we call a long term divorce. A divorce that never really managed to resolve over a decade. And even the children are growing long in the tooth as the the battle rages on, but it is frankly a COVID issue. And they're going to be discussing it in court in about a week. And the courts have just opened up here, you know, so there are, I don't know how they got a court date, but it is also my job, Shawn to talk to you about whether you know, a certain attorney or not, and whether you think that that person may be amenable to trying to mediate out some of these things. But yeah, I'm hearing about this. It's happening. It is a hot, Cruel Summer and there is no No surety that anybody knows really what's best. So,
Shawn Weber :yeah, I think that's the problem is there's no consensus on how to deal with this. And there's absolutely no case law on how to handle differing opinions on co parenting during the COVID crisis. Because it's brand new, it's the first, it's a case of first impression for all of us. So there would never have been, I mean, to get a case law, there'd have to be a case and then there would have to be an email of that case, and then there would have to be a decision and we are so far from that ever happening.
Scott Weiner :Some kind of a related factor. I mean, if the the case the wording is going to have to do with something like protecting from obvious dangers, but
Shawn Weber :they're in the code in the family code in California, at least you know, you can change a custody order if there is substantial evidence That there is irreparable harm. Right. And you could do that on an emergency basis if you have that evidence. But But how do we agree whether there's substantial evidence of irreparable harm
Scott Weiner :and harm to whom? Only after they're on a ventilator, perhaps?
Shawn Weber :Right? I mean, I I don't know. I I feel for the judges that are I know they're getting these cases, because I'm hearing them in my office every day. What are these judges? How are they going to react to this? And I mean, the consensus I've been hearing from the bar, at least in San Diego is they're taking a dim view of parents who will use the COVID crisis as a reason to prevent someone from having parenting time. I think that a lot of them view it as a manipulation. But I don't know that that's necessarily fair, either because somebody could be legitimately concerned maybe they're going to high risk category, or maybe they've got family members in a high risk category. Um,
Mark Hill :maybe The child is in a high risk category, maybe the child's
Scott Weiner :in a high risk category. Sure that's that would be the most obvious case. Yeah, that would be
Shawn Weber :the that would be the biggest no brainer of all is if it was the child that was in danger, but I did have one where it was a step parent. So wife's ex wife's new husband is in a high risk category and can't get COVID he would kill him. And the biological father, the ex husband doesn't care. And is taking this taking the kids you know, to restaurants and take you know, without the mask and go into the beach or whatever, having a good old time out there. And then and then these children who have been out in the world with dads more lackadaisical approach are now coming into the home with high risk stepfather. And who does the court have a duty protect to protect the stepfather and protect the kids?
Scott Weiner :What is Summer.
Mark Hill :What a mess. So yeah. Can they even get into court? Is my question, would it have to be an emergency hearing?
Shawn Weber :i? Well, I think yeah, I mean, it would have to be an emergency hearing, I doubt that you would get a lot of relief in an emergency hearing, because I think the judges are taking a dim view of it. So what else can you do? Can I think the judge probably would tell this couple. I mean, what the judge probably tell this couple is, you know, the child's not in danger. You may just not have you may have to decide not to exercise custody. I'm sorry. But maybe the kids just need to stay with that. So now this is now you know, rewarding. Kind of the jerky behavior of the dad. I don't know.
Scott Weiner :Oh, my goodness. Oh, I mean, in the case that Shawn is presenting, aren't we essentially in agreement that, that that stepdad is opportunistically trying to or the bio that is opportunistically trying to, you know, hostile? harm the other. Yeah.
Shawn Weber :Yeah, I think he was fine if something horrible happened to the new dad, well to the step dad.
Scott Weiner :So, I mean, what do we talk about every week? We talk about different ways to, you know, negotiate things out and yeah, but, but when when somebody is actually, you know, have bad intent and and hiding under the, the mask of a current health crisis Pun
Shawn Weber :intended?
Scott Weiner :Yes. Has it were you know, I don't know what that means. Some JUDGE MAY penetrate that and and call it for what it is. But when when you say mark, what could we do about that?
Mark Hill :I mean, process it.
Unknown Speaker :Yeah, well, can. I'm assuming bad intent in the first place. So yeah, sure. We could get them and we could get them in to negotiate but why would they bother? It's serious. Allow in bad faith?
Shawn Weber :Well, I mean, I think what I would say here is is I think that situations kind of rare where you have somebody that's much of a jerk. I think generally people want to get along but you know, this This issue has become politically polarized. Yeah, you know, people, people view wearing a mask as a political statement now or not wearing a mask is a political statement. And it's happening a little she's shocked. I'm shocked. It's
Unknown Speaker :shocked, shocked at what you just said, that. I'm shocked at what my partner Shawn just said that he thinks that people generally just want to get along. I we've seen so many people that go out of their way not to get Yes, and to, you know, obstruct to others. And now, I think that there's a bridge too far on that one. I think very many times when people claim a, you know, parental alienation that that parent who just got alienated did something to you know, Help that along, but sometimes not. And we have we've had cases drop out of collaborative when people really were of bad intent.
Shawn Weber :So I guess I guess the major question is, is there a better forum to discuss these issues? Some of them very difficult, some of them maybe even involving bad intent? Is there a better forum to discuss these issues than doing it with a judge?
Mark Hill :I would say yes, I would say if you having to co parent that requires interaction. You're going to have contact with this other person for as long as you have minor children. How to Avoid void, right. So do you want to have misery for that time? And is this your only opportunity to pay them back for their terrible behavior?
Shawn Weber :Or do you want to find all kinds of opportunities to pay? Oh, I'm sorry.
Unknown Speaker :Like, I'm
Mark Hill :done. I got
Unknown Speaker :the money. I have a lawyer here. I'm this this sort of therapist guy. And I'm the cynic. Kidding. Are you kidding? Look into what these people
Shawn Weber :right but let's, let's not, you know pee on Mars flakes let's give him an opportunity to talk about what he was gonna say yeah well
Mark Hill :tell me what you would like me to say counselor and then I will
Unknown Speaker :Oh no, no, I'm just I'm amazed that
Shawn Weber :this curmudgeon in here, and really,
Mark Hill :you know why it is five o'clock on a Friday? He's just cranky after that's
Shawn Weber :what it is. Okay, I'm sorry. I that was fun. But Mark What?
Mark Hill :no recollection of what I was saying. We
Shawn Weber :were talking off in court or not. And I yeah, if we say and you say no, they could go
Mark Hill :somewhere. I'm gonna say categorically No, because you have to have a relationship you got and if and yes, there are some people who want to basically use it for rhetoric. But they're rare. Like you were saying, Shawn, I'm not as cynical as the good doctor over there. But, but I think the most people would prefer to get along if they could. Now some No, as you say, will carry that torch until they die. And we've all had clients like that.
Shawn Weber :Oh, yeah. But I'd rather be a part of the problem than a small part of the solution. Okay, exactly.
Mark Hill :Yeah, I have a lady who is, you know, 12 years since we finally had jam settle her case, calling me up saying, you know, trying to go after stuff for ex husband. No, no kidding. I also have our children was Oh, they don't talk to me anymore. Well, I'm not surprised. That's the true true story.
Shawn Weber :But I mean, there are these these people that are just you know, awful, but I think most people don't want to be awful. They just they just don't see things the same way. And and one person might be like, I'm not that's why they got divorced, why they had different learning styles to begin with. One may be like, you know, I have a case this morning that mom's a real mother bear. You know, real protective of the kids and the dad's a little more lackadaisical about things, and I not and, and one's not worse than the other necessarily. And when you're under the same household, you know, sometimes having two different perspectives is good and refreshing. But when they're divorced, it's now becomes a source of conflict. So, and really what they want to do is they want to get along for the benefit of the kids and just see things fundamentally differently. So then what do we do now?
Unknown Speaker :Well, of course, we just invite them in and they peaceably mediate and they fall
Shawn Weber :at the altar of dispute resolution.
Unknown Speaker :Oh, Shawn, oh, Marco Scott. I would have been so wrong. They'll say
Mark Hill :I finally see the light.
Unknown Speaker :No, no,
Shawn Weber :they never say they're wrong. They're always right. Right. Even when they're wrong. Yeah, right. Because they believe Nobody that most people when their parents have a parenting dispute they're not saying I believe that I'm wrong. Usually they believe they're right. But but they maybe they find a higher purpose in not fighting and that is we want to make sure that the kids don't experience a terrible situation where we're fighting.
Mark Hill :The divorce story, right? What story do you want your kids to tell about divorce? 1520 years from now? Right?
Shawn Weber :Right. So okay, so we've got this problem where we don't see eye to eye it may not be Kobe, it can be anything right? We don't see eye to eye I say get them into somebody like the good doctor whiner here. He won't be so cynical in person. Maybe once they actually come
Unknown Speaker :in that kind of case i'm talking about. Well, they wouldn't come in really don't. I don't believe I mean, I just got the call on it today. honest to goodness, yeah, I really do not believe that. I'm going to be able to get them in. I don't believe it. And there's their claims of alienation. And one of the parents is, has gone out of her or his or his or her way over a period of a decade to be as difficult to the ex. Okay, possible. So and that parent has been married again and divorced again. And I mean
Shawn Weber :COVID j, cause this this this was a pre existing condition. No, no, that's true. COVID is just another opportunity to fight. That's right.
Unknown Speaker :Yes. Because I realized that
Mark Hill :right when what is left to fight about in divorce, it's not the money anymore generally, because that's settled. You can't go back on that. So that's off the table and they fought about that for a long time. And that satisfied that fight need.
Shawn Weber :Oh, that's like the person I talked to Don't take my hatred away. It's all I have left.
Mark Hill :Exactly. And so what you end up with is a situation where people are hanging on to what remains of contact between in any possible opportunity to show that they're the right and the other person is wrong. And what's left? Is the poor children stuck in the middle.
Unknown Speaker :Well, that's what I'm seeing in this particular set of events. Yes.
Shawn Weber :Okay. So, so you're out in the audience, and you're listening to this and you're thinking, geez, I'm in that situation. I've got somebody in the other side that doesn't agree with me on COVID What am I going to do? So you could choose to be these horrible people that you're describing? Right.
Unknown Speaker :Right. And I realized that some of our rhetoric together had yanked me laterally into you know, yeah, into that that other part of the universe, but if it as we are speaking of the COVID issue, and, you know, people's different perceptions of danger, and you know, whether it's political spectrum or whatever, there is a broad broad set of claims. I mean, there is room to negotiate most things like this, though. I mean, if people are actually caring about the other person a little bit anymore, if there is that, you can discuss it in terms of your own comfort, a person could do that. But you'd have to engender a discussion and you know, they call us or we could, you know, they could go to divorce options to even get started at it or something, some kind of way to begin a
Shawn Weber :discussion. So there would have to be some kind of ability to empathize with the other person's position, right, or at least some kind of an effort.
Mark Hill :You know, the one thing I found that I generally can get the other spouse to say, is they want them the other person that they're no longer going to be with to be able to be a good parent. I buy that.
Unknown Speaker :I think you're right.
Mark Hill :Yeah. And so that's sometimes the starting point I find for okay. Yeah, I want him to be a good parent. He's a shitty parent. Yeah. But I want him to be a good one. Okay. Great. I'm really glad to hear that because that's good for your kids. Now, tell me what, how can we help him be a better parent? And you turn around the thinking about how we're approaching it. As opposed to he's a bad person, he needs to be punished and we need to take the kids away from to I want him to be a better parent. So what can I do to make that happen? Is that unreasonable? For me to think that, Scott,
Unknown Speaker :it's not unreasonable to think that? I think I think that your first claim is what I'm certain I agree with. Yeah. I mean, for the same, they, they still loved their kids, even if they're jerks, even if they're whatever they'd still do. But I mean, I realized that I'm perhaps a little bit swayed by today's events, you know, My own phone calls today. But I imagine if you give somebody an opportunity to explain how the other person could be a parent might turn into quite a lecture. But perhaps not, as long as you know, interactively, what we would do in the office, and any one of us would do this. I'm sure as I be sure that, you know, all right now, how could you help us? Sort of, yeah, you know, start to create that parody and that balance that try
Mark Hill :to change the conversation from I you? I you. Yeah. To you. The children.
Shawn Weber :Yeah. Here's an idea. To what extent can you change the conversation to we need to Yeah,
Mark Hill :we Hmm.
Unknown Speaker :Well, when we do collaborative, one of the first things we do is try to build a mission statement. And I think I've said before, in Our meeting said I first I thought that was bogus and now I know it's, it is absolutely core.
Shawn Weber :I had this case years ago where, you know, the what what really anchored them was wanting to be able it was important to them as a value to be able to co parent and to be part partners as they parent their children. And and that and so they have they have this couple has a lot going on. You know, but they keep coming back to Okay, yeah, that's happening. But it's really important to me that we get along for the kids that we do this
Mark Hill :and that's generally I would say, more often than not that is the case as cynical as we can be after a bad day.
Unknown Speaker :That was nice of you to say we that way.
Mark Hill :Well, I can be that way to just wait till next week.
Unknown Speaker :All right. Okay.
Shawn Weber :I mean, how many people have ever said I really want my children to be unhealthy.
Unknown Speaker :No, no They don't say that they say they, they, they load on to the other parent.
Shawn Weber :Well, you know, he doesn't or she knows
Unknown Speaker :that it's just you know, and no wonder the kids don't want to go over there. They No wonder they don't. And sometimes they do. But this person says it over and over and over again. And I've seen that turn into almost a hypnotic suggestion that, yeah, it becomes true. And but if somebody has one iota of good intent toward that other parent, such as Mark was mentioning, you know, wanting them to be a better pair. We have, we have some leverage, we can get a start,
Shawn Weber :but you don't understand Scott, this person is really, really toxic and horrible, and I cannot, you know, you don't understand what they're doing to my kids.
Unknown Speaker :Well, I would probably need to hear from you about that.
Unknown Speaker :You know, but you understand that, you know, I'm, you know, I'm going to talk to her too, because I'm trying to help you both work. This out. So whatever you say about her, I want you to be sure to be as accurate as you can, please.
Shawn Weber :Yeah, yeah. I think you guys have hit on something though there is a higher level of thinking that people ought to try to aspire to. And I know I sound like I'm preaching now, but I'm going to do it anyway. But but just kind of this aspiring to a higher level of thinking that is more than about how offended I am or how upset I am or how angry I am or hurt by
Mark Hill :justified I am in that anger and
Shawn Weber :how Yeah,
Mark Hill :that's what I thought that's what gets difficult for me when I have come up against someone who is so convinced that they are justified in behaving this way. And that to behave in any other way would almost be a dereliction of duty.
Scott Weiner :I'm again sorry to bore you guys to death on this, but that case that I but I'm dealing with or maybe dealing with begin Today, not only is one parent doing what I'm saying, but that parent has found an attorney who is not only playing along but exaggerating it, pulling stunts with timing, and things like that. Yeah,
Shawn Weber :yeah, I've seen that. And because there's some attorneys out there, and they don't even realize it's happening, they become extensions of the disorder of the parent. You know, you have a parent that's, that's naturally high conflict and wants to raise Cain. And they will be attracted to an attorney that will become an extension of that become a really negative advocate and the case and will become part of the problem and actually amplify the problem as opposed to someone who could say to their client, you know, what you're doing here is, you know, maybe we ought to talk about taking the high road, maybe that'd be better for your family. That's how I used to do when I litigated, I would say to people, you're gonna always do better when you take the high road. And so this really angry approach that you're taking is going to be less helpful. And early in my career, I was very happy to fire off some nasty letter, you know, do the sneak attack. And then I learned that that did tremendous damage. So the more experienced more emotionally intelligent attorneys won't let their clients do that. But there's a lot of attorneys out there that relish it. And so when you're seeking counsel, I would tell the public this when you're seeking counsel, don't necessarily look for the person that's always looking for an angle to hurt the other side. But look for somebody that's going to be an advocate for the family system to be healthy. You know, this is not a property boundary dispute. This is your children. You know, and so what can you do to make sure that your kids are okay, is it really are they really going to benefit from increased conflict? And the answer is usually No. Okay, so we this is like every case whether it's COVID or not, right? Yeah, yeah. So what about what does COVID add to this whole system that we're living in? That makes it harder for people to figure out how to get along?
Mark Hill :I have an example of a COVID situation. Okay. Okay, couple going through divorce still in the same house. One has been called back to work. It's the wife, she's back to her husband is now 100% caregiver to the children because his job is not being called back. Also, she's now earning money. And he still has no income. And that's becoming a challenge and either funds used. How do you deal with something like that?
Shawn Weber :And he was, was he previously the higher earner by chance? Very similar, very similar levels. They were similar. Okay. Very similar. Yeah. So she's been called back to work and he's now home can't get work still furloughed? And so what's that doing to the family dynamic? Aside from the fact that they don't have as much money as they used to have,
Mark Hill :well, it says the money is a problem because she is earning it and saying she can dictate. I mean, the bills are getting paid, but there's and then both make decent money. So it's not like they're, you know, having a problem are going to end up being evicted or anything like that. But he is. She complains about how he parents, the kids, and he is having a hard time with two children in the house who are, you know, I think they're like nine and 11 or something.
Unknown Speaker :Is the
Unknown Speaker :are they legally separate yet?
Mark Hill :No. Okay, no.
Shawn Weber :So it's still all community property. And I'm sorry, you said they still cohabit.
Mark Hill :They still cohabit. I mean, they approached me maybe two months ago and they haven't moved forward, but I got a call telling me about the update. You know, from us. doesn't turn that home with the kids like Never mind the background. Raising Hell.
Shawn Weber :Oh, he's raising cane and you can hear it.
Mark Hill :I could hear the kids in the background just you know, going crazy, you know, eight year old and 11 year old something like that. I think
Shawn Weber :they're two boys. Well, there's so much here that you're hitting on. You're hitting on. You're hitting on money problems. You're hitting on. Oh, my gosh, we're sequestered in our house together. Yeah. You're hitting on. He's not used to maybe being home with the kids this much. Because he used to work full time outside of the house. And they have
Mark Hill :daycare and school. You know,
Shawn Weber :maybe he feels emasculated because mom's earning money and he's not. Why. Now, what do you think, Dr. wyner? Boy,
Unknown Speaker :well, this is a coven reality, isn't it? I mean with the additional features of the pressure cooker of everybody being home, a furloughed person. Isn't accustomed to being a full time parent at getting judgments from the other one and, Mark, you're hearing it over the phone and you're kind of wondering if,
Mark Hill :and I'm hearing one side, I haven't spoken to the wife, her story is going to be totally different about what's going on. That's the nature of divorce. What you mean there's two
Shawn Weber :sides to every story, no story. There's three right? Her
Mark Hill :story, his story and what really?
Shawn Weber :Well, what's her point of view? her point of view is I mean, we can guess, right? I'm the only one that's providing for this family. Am I gonna go out and work and then I'm coming home and it's chaotic. And I just want to relax because I've been working and fighting the fight all day and he can't even get the dishes done by the time I get home.
Mark Hill :Bingo. And the children are not he's not making sure they do their chores and stuff that she would when she's home. And he's just like, you know, he's I wouldn't say it's a Disneyland dad. But he said it's kinda lazy fair, you know he's like he
Shawn Weber :just sets them in front of Netflix and lets them watch God knows
Mark Hill :the summer. You know, he was saying to me, it's the summer they've got the summer off. I turned the summers off what's Why is it such a big deal? You know,
Shawn Weber :on what are they going to do in the summer? Exactly. Normally when you got the summer the kids can go outside and blow off some steam
Mark Hill :camp
Shawn Weber :and go to camp and now maybe there isn't even can
Mark Hill :the camps that are you comfortable in sending your children to them and would the couple agree? which characters oh my gosh, there you go. There's the whole COVID extra dinette. I mentioned
Unknown Speaker :some of the waterfront. Some of the waterfront camps are opening up after Fourth of July in San Diego. The beaches have completely different rules going from Oceanside wide open. Carlsbad city somewhat open Carl's bad State Beach fairly closed coming down toward lucania I mean, it's every beach. The rules are different from community to community. There's all this ambiguity. And it's, you know,
Mark Hill :that's the tragedy of what's going on in the United States. I'm an Englishman. I talked to my sisters in England. And they had a terrible time with comfort like we did. But you know what? They have rules, national rules. And now they shut down various small areas when it breaks out, and they test and trace, because they have a national standard. We don't have that. You can, you know, we've got borders between states and states having to try and work out what to do on their own and nobody agrees.
Shawn Weber :Well, and communities within those states aren't even agree. Yes,
Mark Hill :absolutely.
Shawn Weber :You know, well, that's just yeah, I mean, people see things very differently. I mean, I, I talked to some of my family members who, frankly, it does fall on political grounds, how people are reacting to COVID it really is. And I have family members. I'm never gonna wear a mask. They can't make me wear a mask. And then I also know people like hold on Got your recordable citizen if you don't put a mask on, and you know I, on this program, I don't want to take a position as to who's right, although you might suspect but I think people are not able to have a reasonable conversation about it because they've allowed themselves to go into camps. And I think that's happening times 10 when you're talking about a married couple that disagrees on through and in it and I think people are losing their crap generally because it's just been stressful. The economy's been crazy. The unemployment is up. You know, we just had we just had a press conference where we celebrated that we were at 11% unemployment. That was wonderful. This is amazing. Better than expected news. We're in 11% unemployment.
Mark Hill :But did you hit the other pot? We know we added 4 million jobs, right? Yeah. 1.2 million in new claims. It didn't mention that. Well, so I mean million this week.
Shawn Weber :My point is, it's awfully stressful out there. And then you add a race riot or 20. And, and the reactions to those race riots and people are losing their crap. I mean, all you have to do is spend a little bit of time on Facebook just kind of reading your feed, and you can see all this stuff. And and then people are locked up at home, some of them can work, some of them can't work, or maybe they go to work and they're afraid they're going to catch COVID or maybe they're just angry that everybody else thinks they're going to catch COVID. And there's conspiracy theories on every side and people are losing their minds. And then you throw into that a divorce. And, and and the conflict that sometimes comes with a divorce or co parenting decisions. And it's just, it's a perfect storm.
Mark Hill :And it can be overwhelming content. I mean, it really can and what people in when they're overwhelmed do not make good decisions.
Shawn Weber :No, they don't. And maybe that's the point. Yeah, I mean, I would send people to Scott here and I would say you need to spend some time with Scott. And I want you to Work on how you cope with the stress that you're feeling so that you can make rational choices. Because what I want you to do when you come into my office and you're mediating, I want you to bring your best, most rational self, not the one that is filled with cortisol. And and yeah, and, you know, in the fight or flight mode and not thinking clearly, how would you help a person like that, Scott?
Unknown Speaker :Well, depends on which
Unknown Speaker :which, which, which flavor of inability to manage rational decisions, you're seeing the the case I was talking about earlier.
Unknown Speaker :I would have to seriously
Unknown Speaker :query the intent. I would have to directly address it and say, all right, you know, we have to talk about that first. If you really intend ill toward your ex, I'm probably not going to be able to help you. If you're angry with that person. Okay, we can we can talk about that. But if you can see that in the long run, your children will be better off with both parents are okay. And then anything that you can do, opportunistically to make things worse for the other person devolves down to your kids. And then I like Mark's idea of what what is your story going to be in the longest of long runs about this divorce? What are your kids going to say? What are they going to think? You know, I
Shawn Weber :just had it anchor right, but they can grab on
Unknown Speaker :I mean, you know, I can I can use I can use calm generalizations with people. I can say, Well, alright, some people would say this, this and this under these circumstances, others might, you know, introduce a different thread to them without accusing them of, you know, of, you know, ill intent. But anyway, I think we're getting close to wind up time. It isn't.
Shawn Weber :I'd like to keep going on I mean, This is a interesting conversation for me, and maybe we can talk more about it next week. But I mean, this. People are living this stuff, guys, don't you think? Yeah. Yeah. Well, Scott, if they wanted to have that meeting with you,
Unknown Speaker :they would call me. That's what they would do. Because I'm this old guy who's not a web like you youngsters, and they would call me at 619-417-5743. I'm Dr. Scott Weiner. And they could call me
Mark Hill :and I'm Mark Hill. And you can reach me by going to my website because I am a prepubescent plus 16 year old who actually can handle the internet. Yes, so go to pack divorce comm Pac da Bo RC comm and go to the questions about money and divorce, feel free to take advantage of my free 15 minute consultation.
Shawn Weber :I am a generation XOR but my kids still say okay Boomer to me. I kind of insulted by that. But I am a Gen X guy. I don't want to be like you people. Oh, but he wanted to reach me. If you wanted to reach me, you would go to my very technologically advanced website with amazing information and multimedia at Weber dispute resolution.com that's Weber with one Bay dispute resolution.com Thanks for listening to another episode of the Three Wise Men of divorce, money, psych, and law. If you liked what you heard, be sure to subscribe. leave us a review and share with others who may be in a similar place. Until next time, stay safe, healthy and focused on a positive bright future. This podcast is for informational purposes only every family law cases is unique so no legal, financial or mental health advice is intended during this podcast. If you need help with your specific situation, feel free to schedule a time to speak with one of us for a personal consultation.