The Three Wisemen of Divorce: Money, Psych & Law

Good Remarriage: How not to make the same mistakes you made in your last marriage.

May 11, 2021 Shawn Weber, CLS-F, Mark C. Hill, CFP®, CDFA® and Scott Weiner, Ph.D., J.D. Season 2 Episode 9
The Three Wisemen of Divorce: Money, Psych & Law
Good Remarriage: How not to make the same mistakes you made in your last marriage.
Show Notes Transcript

So, you survived the process of divorcing your ex.  Now you want to remarry.  How do you avoid repeating same mistakes you made the first time around?   In this episode, Divorce experts Mark C. Hill, CFP®, CDFA® Financial Divorce Consultant; Scott Weiner, Psychologist, Attorney and Mediator; and Shawn Weber, CLS-F* Family Law Mediator and Divorce Attorney, discuss how to start the next relationship on the right foot. 

Scott Weiner:

Oh, hello again. Hello again, folks. Oh, Hi Mark. Hi there, Shawn.

Shawn Weber:

Hi there,

Scott Weiner:

that flipped over a new leaf. Okay.

Shawn Weber:

Welcome to the Three Wise Men of divorce, money, psych, and law podcast. Sit down with the California divorce experts, financial divorce consultant, Mark Hill, psychologist Scott Weiner and attorney Sean Weber for a frank and casual conversation about divorce, separation, co parenting, and the difficult decisions, real people like you face during these tough times. We know that if you are looking at divorce or separation, it can be scary and overwhelming. With combined experience of over 70 years of divorce and conflict management, we are here for you and look forward to helping by sharing our unique ideas, thoughts and perspectives on divorce, separation, and co parenting.

Scott Weiner:

The wise man, the Wise Men of divorce are back again for another stimulating conversation and I'll tell you what, maybe the whole core of the issue that we're discussing, and have been discussing over and over again, rests in the concept of we speak of divorce and divorce and divorce. And how about speaking of marriage, if we could marry sensibly, somehow, if we could marry sensibly, you know, you people could put us out to pasture where we belong, we'd be out of business. We'd be so out of business,

Shawn Weber:

I would be fine with that.

Mark Hill:

I'm thinking about that note song love and marriage, you can't have one without the other. But it's actually marriage and divorce, you can't have the first. So and I've had people come to me who are entering a second marriage or who are marrying late in life and have substantial assets. And, you know, they're like, What do I do? How can I do this the right way? Perhaps because I screwed up the first time I did it. But perhaps also because I've seen other people make mistakes, and I want to avoid them. And I don't know the right questions to ask. You know, it's

Scott Weiner:

interesting that we're that we're doing this because in the as we were rolling up to beginning our discussion, Shawn had mentioned another idea, which is basically linked with all this, which is, how do we keep from making the same mistakes over and over again? Yeah, I mean, I mean, a whole core of my clinical work. I mean, even I would say, a heart, the route the very heart and soul of it, is helping people with their habits. And my belief is that habit is what makes us civilized, what makes all of this possible, that we can manage to duplicate actions that are good, unconsciously and unwittingly, unfortunately, what worked out once doesn't always work out and the habit is there, whether it is any longer useful or positive. So yeah, we are likely to make the same mistakes again and again.

Shawn Weber:

Is it is it true, Scott, that sometimes we get into a habit of dating people that are toxic for us? Or just aren't a good match for us?

Scott Weiner:

Oh, absolutely. That is true. But we don't we don't do that because they are toxic? No, we do that because they are exciting in some kind of way to say because we're toxic.

Shawn Weber:

Right? There's, there's something that there's an attraction, right?

Scott Weiner:

It can I mean, at the very bottom line be something as simple as he is my type. She is my type. And that is that is habit based as habit can be.

Shawn Weber:

So what if your type is great to hang out with and go on a date with and a lot of fun, but then to be married to that type? just doesn't seem to work for you.

Scott Weiner:

How about that?

Shawn Weber:

So what I do, then, what we do, you come to us

Scott Weiner:

and then we get to make a living?

Shawn Weber:

And we'll make a good living? Right? I always joke is, I don't know how to save a marriage, but I sure know how to ruin one. Well, of course, in how do

Scott Weiner:

you how do you ruin one shot? Well, I

Shawn Weber:

mean, one is you can marry a person that's not a good match for you for marriage material and just keep making that same mistake. You can marry people that are fun, but aren't necessarily marriage material. You can be very selfish. That's a good way to run a marriage. You know, well, one have affairs that'll do it.

Scott Weiner:

They teach us they teach us in law school that marriage is is really a three way contract. It's between two people and the state. And there's it's a very serious agreement you're making. And what is less exciting and less interesting on that first or second date is the deeply deeply important capability of being responsible to each other. And being as Mark is spoken of being each other's fiduciary having those duties to each other. Doesn't that sound romantic? Oh my

Mark Hill:

god, that Let's have a talk about the prenup, honey, right before we go home,

Shawn Weber:

right, let's let's talk about or like the couple I had the other day. He got out of bed, walked around to the other side of the bed, knelt down and proposed to her. Okay, they've been living together. Okay. All right, fine. And then and then they proceeded to talk about the prenup. Hmm, not very romantic.

Mark Hill:

No, it's better than just after the wedding invitations went out.

Shawn Weber:

Well, that's happened to Yeah, you know, and I was joking with you guys, before we went on that, that I have this curse. And you probably experienced it too, where, you know, we've seen enough divorces that we can kind of tell. Or at least I can I I can spot folks and I'll turn to my wife. Oh, yeah. I give them about five years, if they're lucky.

Mark Hill:

And she punches you in the arm if you're lucky. He's like, shut up. Don't

Shawn Weber:

say that. Right. And, and I mean, I'm usually right. I'm sure what I'm spotting. I just, it's just kind of a sense, maybe a professional sense of having been, you know, there's just interactions that kind of you spot

Scott Weiner:

on, you know, what, what might help are folks out there is if, if you can actually state what the what some of these signs might be.

Shawn Weber:

Okay, what do you notice, right? So I'm ad libbing shooting from the hip here. Go over involved. extended family. Okay, when the in laws are more invested in the wedding than the wedding participants are. That tends to be a bad sign.

Scott Weiner:

I notice a either a set of behaviors or even even reported history being bandied about, of really irresponsible behavior, sooner or later, that's going to tip you know, the meter. That doesn't mean you won't be able to recover. And that can be an artifact of simple immaturity that people grow out of. But, you know, when you have people well into adulthood, who you know, you know, have just just not managed to be reliable.

Shawn Weber:

Yeah, you know, boy, well, that kind of goes with the inlaws. So I mean, like, if the person you're married, has not managed to cut the cord, the umbilical cord by the time you're planning to marry this person from their parents, chances are that cord is going to be remained intact throughout your marriage.

Scott Weiner:

It not to be difficult, but I've seen that saved marriages do though, okay.

Shawn Weber:

Well, I you know, if I

Scott Weiner:

were you know, but it's, it's, it's a strange thing, because, you know, the responsibility and the things is, is up in the the superordinate generation then as opposed to in the relationship. And it's kind of weird, it's, we were laughing about how unexciting and unromantic it is. But boy, what a feeling of confidence it gives when you really know the other person is reliable and you know,

Mark Hill:

running background checks, do you do a credit? Seriously, no, no,

Scott Weiner:

you're so smart that a credit

Shawn Weber:

check is a good idea actually. I had a gal she I shouldn't say gal you're not supposed to say gal anymore woman who married a man. And he told her what he was and who he was. And it was all made up. It was all story. And then after she was married to him for a while she realized what he really was and wasn't anything even close to what he sold her as far as his background, his career, his life. He sold himself out he held himself out to be this very wealthy, successful businessman. He was an absolute popper and a failure in business and didn't hold many of the positions. He said he held and

Mark Hill:

so is there a legal context

Scott Weiner:

where I Going law question law question.

Shawn Weber:

Yeah, it can be I mean, you can get a nullity of marriage. You know, basically we say nobody, it's as if the marriage never happened. My former business partner used to say we're going to make you a virgin again. fraud in the inducement, fraud in the inducement? Yeah.

Scott Weiner:

Yeah, I haven't seen that one.

Shawn Weber:

I bet you have one. I can count them. On one hand, the cases that I've actually seen successfully litigated for fraud in the inducement, nobody, but they can happen. Sure. The other is, or he was sterile and had an STD and didn't tell me about it. And then we got married. And now we can't have children. And on top of that, he gave me an STD I had that case. And there was a she got a melody for that. There's also void marriages. So if someone happens to be married to somebody else, when they marry you, that's not a marriage. That's a void marriage.

Scott Weiner:

Was the

Mark Hill:

not consummated? Isn't that a that a situation?

Shawn Weber:

Yeah. Where you are the incapacity to consummate? Right, yeah, you know, but it's not like we have marriage police. It's not like we have inspectors coming in and making sure that that's just in Georgia, I believe people are right, that people are actually consummating things, like

Mark Hill:

apologies to folks in Georgia. But the truth of the matter is, that is a bit of a there is something there's some laws in Georgia that we're a little behind.

Shawn Weber:

Yeah, I mean, every state has their weird, they're weird. Laws. Right. But um, yeah, I mean, things. I mean, yes, I get marriage police that are just like inspecting. Like, there was a time when when, you know, in old England where some, you know, the handmaidens would actually come and inspect the bedsheets to make sure that right, there was a consummation or there'd be a physical examination of the bride to make sure that he was a virgin before and beige. He wasn't after. You know, but we don't do that in America anymore. Really? Why are we talking about this?

Mark Hill:

bright idea of saying how we can avoid mistakes? Well, okay.

Shawn Weber:

Yeah. So one mistake is know who you're marrying. Right. Right. Don't Don't marry, you know, and I think there's nothing wrong with doing a background check. Find out if there's a dv history. Yep. You know, if there's a domestic violence history, this is probably not somebody you want to marry.

Mark Hill:

who's holding themselves out like your participant as being successful financially. And then when you run the credit report, you find out that they got late payments from for all the credit cards, you know,

Scott Weiner:

my mind. Did either of you guys do any of that? I never did that when I got married.

Shawn Weber:

No, but you've met my wife. She's perfect. I'm lucky.

Scott Weiner:

Well, yeah. But I mean, the only thing wrong with my wife is her bad judgment.

Shawn Weber:

But I mean, yeah, I mean, she probably should have a choice of men. You mean?

Scott Weiner:

Yes. Yeah, absolutely.

Mark Hill:

Well,

Shawn Weber:

I mean, okay, so I just said that. And it was kind of obnoxious, because I'm sure most people that marry somebody that turns out to be something totally different than what they thought would have talked the same way I just did. Right? Yes. So so maybe I'm jaded enough as an attorney, that if I were to get married tomorrow, I probably would do all that background check, even though even though I was completely in love, and

Scott Weiner:

I think that one of the things that happens is that people get married too quickly. And, you know, when you marry on impulse, as opposed to really spending some time to get to know somebody, you know, somebody is telling all these grand stories of richness and business and this the other but never quite paying for dinner. He might wonder or, you know,

Mark Hill:

so marry slowly. And the corollary to that is divorce quickly. Well, think about it. I've learned with hiring people. My tendency was always hire the first person through the door that I think I get along with, and then stay with them, even when they're not working out. Because I want to make it work. And I picked him. I've learned to do it differently, hire very slowly, and if it's not working, you know, that's fine. That's fine. Fire quickly. Let's move on. Both of us will be happier. You know,

Shawn Weber:

I probably could have saved myself a lot of heartache in business if I'd have been more attentive to that.

Mark Hill:

I think the high Thought is the corollary to the understanding who you marry.

Unknown:

Should Well yes,

Shawn Weber:

marry, marry

Scott Weiner:

lonely

Shawn Weber:

well on the other. The other thing is once you know, Toni Morrison said, when a person tells you who they are, believe them. You know, so if you come across the person and they kind of give you some hints as to what kind of personality they have, and how they're gonna treat people believe that I met my favorite example is you have somebody you know, I'm the other woman or the other man. And I know that they've left their spouse for you. Hmm, why do you think they're not going to leave you for someone else after that?

Scott Weiner:

Or because we're all too great, man. Come

Mark Hill:

on. Absolutely. I'm perfect. What's your prob? I don't understand.

Shawn Weber:

Right? Yeah. Right. So I mean, when when somebody tells you who they are, believe them.

Scott Weiner:

Well, except to say when somebody shows you who they are.

Mark Hill:

Yeah. Yeah. Well,

Scott Weiner:

everybody's left somebody for us.

Shawn Weber:

Okay, Mark, you go.

Mark Hill:

Well, that's the sociopath who is charming, and who will dlo is as energy and is exciting, and they're fun to be around. And they're not who they actually say they are. But they're convincing.

Shawn Weber:

But if you spend some time with that person, Scott, would that sociopathic? Those sociopathic tendencies kind of show themselves? So I can do a rush wedding, you might miss it, right? But if you split shirt,

Scott Weiner:

unfortunately, the answer to that is yes. But it doesn't help. Because what they'll keep showing you is the charm is the charm is the charm is the charm. And, and they although they're very self centered, they're unwittingly there. They're there. It's even deeper than intent. By nature, they are so watching you for your responses. And they are just going to make you smile and smile and smile. But over time, again, over some time, they'll start to do things like oh, not show up. Or beat and then have a real flip.

Shawn Weber:

You know, leave a boiled rabbit on your stove. Things like that. Like

Scott Weiner:

that one. Never seen that one.

Mark Hill:

talks about the whole

Shawn Weber:

movie fatal, Fatal Attraction machine.

Mark Hill:

I thought that was a cat, wasn't it?

Shawn Weber:

Here's the rabbit.

Mark Hill:

Always the rabbit. Well, what about the Godfather? We'll just put a horse head in the

Shawn Weber:

really the perfect example Michael Corleone was was a mafia killer. And she married him and and he's like, Oh, I'm gonna go with jet. Yeah, right.

Mark Hill:

Yeah. can ask me one question about my business. And that's all done it. At least this is the one time I'm going to answer in a whole marriage. Are you involved with the crime syndicate? No, no. No need to lie to her once?

Shawn Weber:

Did you murder your brother in law? No. Of course not. What do you what do you think I am? killer?

Scott Weiner:

Would I leave my would I leave my sister or widow?

Shawn Weber:

That's right. That's what he said, isn't it? Yeah, I would I do such a thing. She's crazy. You know, she's just crazy telling you that. But that's classic kind of sociopathic kind of stuff, isn't it are kind of manipulative stuff.

Scott Weiner:

I don't know how classic it is. It's classical. It's good movie

Unknown:

film.

Scott Weiner:

But for our for our good people out there who indulge us by listening to us. I think that the serious thought that sits behind all this is how do I keep from making the same mistake over and over again. And I mean, the only thing that in my honest to God, meat and potatoes, clinical world I can say is know what kind of mistakes you are prone to.

Shawn Weber:

Yeah, that's what I was gonna say, you know, I my favorite anecdote on this is I had a client who had gone through four marriages. And last fourth one hit. You know, he was feeling pretty low about the third one, you know, and I helped him on two of them, I think. And we actually were opposing counsel on his second one. You know, so he liked our work so much that he came to me to hire me to help him in his third divorce. But he said, you know, what I realized is there's one constant in all of these divorces. And it's me. And I said, Well, you know, remember back when I told you after, after the second one, that what you needed to do before you thought about getting into new relationship is get some good on honest to goodness therapy, to find out what it is about you that is attracted to or attracts this person that you married, that was such a disaster for you. And make sure you don't make that mistake again. I mean, Scott, how would there be like that word?

Scott Weiner:

If a person comes in with that amount of clear intent, the chances are it would work, first of all adverb beautifully. But, um,

Mark Hill:

well,

Scott Weiner:

I mean, each person is an of one word, we're all the same. And yet, we're all, you know, we're all sort of a bit different. And this, this sort of a thing could happen. For either unconscious reasons or pure conscious error. I mean, again, if a person has is feeling a certain kind of an attraction to a certain type, and then the rest of the kinds of things like the reliability and decency stuff we've been talking about, somehow gets left to the side.

Mark Hill:

Well,

Unknown:

now

Scott Weiner:

there is that other problem, which he did isolate, which is the one constant and this is me. And maybe, maybe all these different choices he made were fine. And the problem is that he wasn't husband material.

Shawn Weber:

Well, I mean, that's, that's the conclusion he reached, he decided, you know what, I'm not gonna, four is enough. I'm not gonna inflict myself on anybody else. And I'm just gonna be a bachelor for the rest of my life. Well, I kind of felt bad for him.

Scott Weiner:

I mean, he did you you got to know him a little bit. Was he? Was he a marriageable man? Or was was he reliable? Was he decent? Was he trustworthy? Was he? responsible? You know, did he carry his weight?

Shawn Weber:

Yes, but he had a certain personality. Kind of. He listens to this, he's gonna know it's him. But I think he'll be okay with this discussion. A certain legend in his own mind kind of approach to life. Okay, really sure of himself.

Scott Weiner:

So a bit grandiose and a bit

Shawn Weber:

of a wheeler and dealer made him brilliant in business. I think it probably caused him some trouble in marriage.

Scott Weiner:

So was he wheeling and dealing at home too? was he able to turn that off when he got home and said, Hey, I had a really good day on he and oh, I did this and did that. Now, what can I do for you? Yeah, I

Shawn Weber:

don't think so.

Scott Weiner:

Yeah. So Well, I

Shawn Weber:

mean, I don't know. I mean, one of the women he married was a lunatic. I mean, I can tell you, she was not tightly wrapped. What maybe that was maybe I mean, he was attracted to that. So maybe that's part of the problem, too. Which he exciting? Yeah, I'm sure. Well,

Mark Hill:

so there's that there is that aspect where it's, you know, Yes, she's broken. But she's never been with me before. And I can fix her because I'm so special. So is that syndrome, a little bit of a hero? What I'm hearing from this is, we really cannot know for sure. You know, we really cannot be sure when we get married, that it will last a lifetime. So what can we do? What can how can we help people practically with yellow? Yes, you get married with the best of intention and all these high hopes. But, you know, we should be aware that divorce is statistically a pretty high outcome for every five out of 10. Yeah. And second marriages, it's more than for first marriages. And I didn't know that. Yeah, it is. It increases the more marriages

Shawn Weber:

that each marriage, it's exponential. Yeah. In fact, it's not really half of all marriages fail. Half of all failed first marriages do not fail. Exactly. It's the second and third marriages that skew the results.

Mark Hill:

Yeah. So what can we do? Well, first of all, let me be a financial guy here. Let's do that door. We know what we own and can prove it the day we get married. Nobody, you know, right? They don't say okay, I'm getting married in the morning. We're going to have the bachelor party on Thursday and I get married on Saturday. So on Friday, what I'm going to do is print out account statements of all my brokerage accounts, my bank accounts, my 401k my I'm going to make sure I've got that letter from my mom and dad that says that they actually they gave me $100,000.09 years ago that I put into this house where this soon to be wife of mine and I have been living. Get your ducks in a row financially so that you have it pray. You never need it. But at least then if there are what we call separate property claims, because you had stuff before you got married, then what you would do basically, is now have all the documents you're going to need. So that's a practical thought. And I don't think it's being pessimistic. I think it's just being, you know,

Shawn Weber:

I guess it's also being a good steward to your spouse.

Mark Hill:

Exactly. You know,

Scott Weiner:

did you notice what he said about the timing of that the day before the wedding? Just to locate that, that benchmark,

Mark Hill:

if you have access to it, that's the date you want, because you want the date of marriage valuation. Now, nobody usually spends their honeymoon doing printing out their statements, but and it's usually the farthest thing from your mind at that point. But you want to have that information. Because if you if your marriage last seven years, the banks don't have the records. Yeah, they keep it for seven years, the IRS, you know, that we're required to keep our tax returns for I think, seven years. Anybody want to guess how long the IRS keeps them? Five years. You cannot get a tax return that six years old, from the IRS if you've lost what you filed with them.

Shawn Weber:

Wow, not even a transcript?

Mark Hill:

Nope, nothing. It's gone. Because I tried one time, because there's so in the mislaid,

Shawn Weber:

how are they going to audit you if it's longer than five years?

Mark Hill:

proof is upon you. They don't have a record of it. I guess they go down Go back more than five years.

Shawn Weber:

And it's interesting.

Mark Hill:

It was fascinating to me, because I called the IRS because because we had a you know, when trying to get records from earlier years, lot more than five years back, because we had an issue with the with the house that had been purchased back in the 90s. Before we were rolling, capital, webcam, you know, it was like buy a new house establish a new basis. Back in the old days, we rolled the basis of our old homes into it. So we needed these people had lived in that house for 25 years, but they'd owned two houses before. And so we needed to know what the basis was. And what they used to do was put a form on the back of the tax return. It says, This is the basis in your new house. And that all went away in 98. Nobody cares anymore. But if you have a deal, buy your house in 97. And you've owned a couple of houses before you do not know how much tax you owe.

Shawn Weber:

Well, I mean, we've talked about this before, I'm a big fan of the prenup, especially with a second marriage. And, and the prenup process requires that level of disclosure. You know, and and, you know, people need to I think the prenup is so good because it forces the conversation about the money so that you can make sure you're on the same page. And I've had people in the prenup process decide, you know what, we're not going to get married. At first I used to think, oh, gosh, I think maybe the prenup process broke up their marriage and I realized No, what broke up their marriages, they shouldn't have been getting married. And the prenup process revealed that to them. Yeah. Yeah. And so so whether it's a prenup, or not having that detailed conversation about the money and what's going to happen. I think people just skip over that because it's not romantic.

Mark Hill:

Yeah, well, no one

Scott Weiner:

entered a train wreck. And instead, they

Shawn Weber:

just didn't get on the train, you know, and get on the train. This this, I remember this woman in particular. I mean, the agreement he wanted her to sign was so onerous. So horrid that I could not I told her, I said, I cannot recommend that you sign this. This is a horrid agreement for you. And she was really upset. And she ended up not marrying him over it. And I think okay, bullet dodged. Yeah, you know, maybe that's okay. I'll probably get letters How dare you screw up these people's engagements. But they just asked me, you know, what is the prenup mean for me? You know, and it really what it did is it exposed some attitudes that were just not compatible for them. I said to her I said, if you want to marry this guy, knowing that that's what's gonna happen if you get divorced, then by all means, you know, my job isn't to tell you not to do it. My job is just to tell you what your exposure is.

Mark Hill:

And the great thing about doing the prenup is it requires you you don't have to spend the honeymoon printing out your statements because the prenup will list out the separate property assets that you both have at that time. There it is identified account numbers, dollar amounts. Now, a lot of the money that my firm makes is sorting out the mess when there isn't a prenup. So, we talk about avoiding mistakes. We have a case right now with a client who has Shawn, basically rolled various different retirement accounts from his fairly long career into one account that he essentially has been was contributing separate properties before the marriage, in his contributions to his retirement plan, marital property during the marriage, plus converting a number of different accounts into that account from separate property prior that he had from accounts prior to the marriage into that account. And then he got separated and even making separate property since Can you imagine the complexities of tracing the returns on all those contributions and where the money came from? And who gets what? It's the it's a Full Employment Act for Pacific divorce management, we have to trace every one of those pieces of cash flow, work out how the returns were on those every single month, up or down, and do the separate property plus the community property shares. I mean, it's a lot of work. And no one thinks about it. He was just Oh, it's I don't want the statements from four different financial institutions. We'll just put it all in Schwab. Makes sense. And it would have made sense if you stayed married. You know,

Shawn Weber:

we're running out of time guys were to that point. But I have three takeaways. Let's see if you agree with these three takeaways. I'm going to call them I just wrote them down. The three nose not an O but kn o w. know who you are marrying? number one. Number two, Know yourself. Number three, know the money. Am I missing anything?

Unknown:

No. The family? That's the fourth No, no.

Shawn Weber:

Really are marrying the in laws?

Mark Hill:

Yellow? Yep.

Shawn Weber:

And if there's if there's children, and there's children of the other person? Yep. Oh, those kids? I don't know them, too. This is not good. You know, blended families are hard. So So know that. And know your own boundary. With those kids. Interesting. Yeah, don't waste like that, that I'm consulting on now. We're that's kind of what's going on. As,

Scott Weiner:

as much as we think in terms of the how ancient the old arranged marriage realities are.

Shawn Weber:

There's some sense to it.

Scott Weiner:

Some of them worked out rather well.

Shawn Weber:

Well, you know, they have a higher success rate than what we do. Yeah. They really do.

Scott Weiner:

So I suppose, you know, the, the pressure to stay married in those cultures. And, and,

Mark Hill:

you know, how, and actually, it's one of the biggest challenges I have with is with divorcing couples, who are both first generation Americans have immigrant parents. Yeah, immigrant parents were in arranged marriages. And even though they married within their culture, they did it for different they chose each other as opposed to being chosen for them. And those marriages are less successful than the ones where they're arranged even in this country. Yeah,

Shawn Weber:

yeah. Yeah. Oh, my

Scott Weiner:

Lord, could I tell stories that I can't tell.

Shawn Weber:

We've all got stories that we would love to share. But indeed, I mean, the reason we're sharing all this stuff is because we have seen the train wrecks. And I've also seen, not so much professionally, because I get the train wrecks as my profession. But I've also seen personally some pretty incredible success stories. And so it is possible to have the dream, right. I remember my grandparents, they had their 60th wedding anniversary, and I asked my grandfather who married 60 years, and I was expecting some kind of snarky answer from him. Like, now that you look back on it. What was it? He says it was one big, long, beautiful dream.

Mark Hill:

Wow, that's wonderful.

Shawn Weber:

Norman Rockwell, right? So there, there are those stories out there. If you're not in that story, doesn't mean it's the end of the world, right? You there's a way forward, there's a way through this, we can help you if it's a divorce.

Scott Weiner:

Yep. I'm thinking of what those grandparents of yours must have been like to have that great big long dream. They must have been very patient. They must have been very steady. They must have been all kinds of wonderful things.

Shawn Weber:

All of those all of the above. Yeah.

Scott Weiner:

Right. And if those people if you know when we talked about where we started this discussion, if you're patient enough to really do the, the getting to know process slowly and wisely. I think that you won't be visiting us in our offices. But if you do, Shawn, how do they get ahold of you?

Shawn Weber:

Well, if you have any kind of dispute Whether it's a marital dispute or a child dispute or some other kind of dispute, go to Weber dispute resolution.com it's Weber with one v like the grill, Weber dispute resolution.com and we will match you with a mediator who can help you resolve your dispute.

Scott Weiner:

Mr. Hill,

Mark Hill:

you'd go to Pacific divorce management's website, which is www dot Pak divorce.com Pac di VORC e.com. and phone numbers and contact information is all there.

Scott Weiner:

And I'm Scott Weiner, and I'm a psychologist. I'm at 619-417-5743 and I answer my own phone ladies and gentlemen.

Shawn Weber:

Thanks for listening to another episode of the three Wiseman of divorce, money, sight and law. If you like what you heard, be sure to subscribe. leave us a review and share with others who may be in a similar place. Until next time, stay safe, healthy and focused on a positive, bright future. This podcast is for informational purposes only. Every family law case is unique. So no legal, financial or mental health advice is intended during this podcast. If you need help with your specific situation, feel free to schedule a time to speak with one of us for a personal consultation.