The Origins of Anti-Aging Medicine with Dr. Chris Renna

This week on the SuperAge podcast, we dive into the world of integrative and preventive medicine with Dr. Chris Renna. Dr. Renna, with a career spanning over three decades, shares his unique perspective on achieving optimal health and longevity. From discussing the nuances of detoxification and the role of the microbiome to exploring the future of biotech and AI in medicine, Dr. Renna provides a comprehensive look at modern healthcare techniques. He emphasizes the importance of individualized treatment plans and the integration of various modalities like nutrition, sleep, and exercise for overall well-being. The conversation challenges conventional medical thinking and a road map into the future of personal health management.

What kind of SuperAger are you? Check the SuperAge Quiz and find out! (visit: ageist.com/quiz)

Thanks to our sponsors:
InsideTracker – the dashboard to your Inner Health. Listeners get 20% off on all products at InsideTracker.com/AGEIST.

Timeline Nutrition — our favorite supplement for cell support and mitochondrial function. Listeners receive 10% off your first order of Mitopure with code AGEIST at TimelineNutrition.com/ageist.

LMNT Electrolytes — our favorite electrolytes for optimal hydration. Listeners receive a free 8-serving sample pack with their purchase at DrinkLMNT.com/AGEIST.

Key Moments
“The Goldilocks concept is really the goal, but it is really complicated and highly individualized, meaning balance is quite subjective.”

“We're on the verge of developing generative A.I. Now we're considering both the risks and benefits of sentience, and I think that the way our brain works, we are naturally drawn to the risk before we're drawn to the opportunity. And I think that works, you know, like that's kept us here and that's brought us forward in our technologies.”

“If God had a complete understanding of every physiologic system and all of its implications and interactions, what would God recommend we have for supper? Generative A.I. holds that potential. It would only inform us. So I think that, you know, the future is amazingly bright.”

Connect with Dr. Chris Renna
LifeSpan
Contact
Book

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:18

Welcome to SuperAge. My name is David Stewart. I am the founder of Agist and your host on the SuperAge show. We talk about how to live healthier, how to live longer and how to be happier, and who doesn't want that?

Speaker 1: 0:31

What kind of SuperAger are you? Go to agistcom slash quiz. Take the SuperAger quiz and we'll send you directed, personalized information to help you SuperAge the best that you can. Today's show is brought to you by Inside Tracker, the dashboard to your inner health. Go to insidetrackercom slash agist, save 20% on all their products. The show is also brought to you by Element LMNT, my favorite electrolyte mix. It's what I put in my water in the morning and it's what I put in my water at the gym. Go to drinkelementcom slash agist and receive a free eight serving sample pack with any purchase. Today's show is also brought to you by Timeline Nutrition with their breakthrough product, mitopure, the first clinically tested urolithin, a supplement which is showing tremendous results for mitochondrial health. Go to timelinenutritioncom slash agist, use the code AGIST at checkout and save 10% off your first order of Mitopure.

Speaker 1: 1:30

Welcome to episode 169 of the SuperAge podcast. We'll be dropping this on February, the 1st 2024. This week on the show we've got Dr Chris Rayna. Chris is interesting for a number of reasons, but the reason we've got him on the show today is he has a longevity medicine practice of great longevity, meaning it's one of the oldest practices I'm aware of. He began in 1991 and I believe he told me his original patient is still around, is still his patient. So we're going to discuss some of the things that he's been doing with his patients, some of the things that I'm sure were disappointing to him over the years, things that had promised to turn out well and didn't, and some of the things that are working out really well. Hopefully we'll get him to talk a little bit about the sort of systems that they're using to go through a patient's biology essentially and how to optimize it. So we're going to get with Chris in just a moment.

Speaker 1: 2:27

We are coming to you today, actually from the island of Manhattan, where I'm looking out my window at the East River. Previously, when I lived in New York, I lived in the West Village for a long time, like too long, I don't know, like 20 years and I looked out at the Hudson, which is a lovely river, but it's like, truthfully, not a whole lot goes on out there. That guy landed a plane in it once, but like not much. The East River, on the other hand, is really busy. It's a very busy commercial waterway, which is interesting in and of itself, but there's all these boats, I don't know. Boats, ships, vessels, I don't know, I don't know quite the right word for that go up and down the river and I have no idea what they do. They're not transporting people, they're doing something else. And I note them and I found myself during my time here becoming like sort of a boat spotter. You know how. There's these sort of subgroups of people in there train spotters, they're like oh, look at that special train engine or boxcar or something, or plane spotters, these people who hang around by airports, and they're like oh, here's the 767 or something. And I find myself becoming like the East River version of that. And I'm not the only one, the other people in the building are sort of the same way.

Speaker 1: 3:43

So we're going to get with Dr Chris Rainer in just a moment, after a quick word from our sponsors. Did you know that just pounding water all day is not going to keep you hydrated? You need the right mix of electrolyte in that water to help that water be absorbed properly and also to help your body function well with the right electrolytes. Element LMNT contains sodium, potassium and magnesium, which are critical for helping our brains and our bodies function. One of the unfortunate facts is as we get older, it's harder to drink water, essentially because our thirst response is diminished, so we need to put extra emphasis on drinking water, staying hydrated with the right electrolytes. Of course, if you are prehypertensive or have hypertension, check with your doctor before having anything with sodium in it. For the rest of us, though, element is a great solution.

Speaker 1: 4:37

Go to drinkelementcom. That's D-R-I-N-K-L-M-N-Tcom slash Agist. Get a free eight serving sample pack with your first purchase. One supplement that I take every day is mitopure from Timeline Nutrition. It contains urolithin A. There's a tremendous amount of science out there about urolithin A, and it's all very positive. Urolithin A helps us with something called mitophagy, which is cleaning out our older, not so functional mitochondria and at 65, I've built up some dysfunctional mitochondria cleans those out, replaces them with new, better functioning mitochondria. What it does is it helps us with all the energy production in our bodies Our brains, our immune systems, our muscles. All of those include mitochondria. They're the energy powerhouse, and we want to have the best mitochondria we can.

Speaker 1: 5:31

This is why I take mitopure every day, why members of my scientific board take it, why their families take it. It's a great product. If you go to timelinenutritioncom slash Agist, use the code AGIST at checkout and you'll save 10% on your first purchase. As always after my conversation with Dr Chris Reina, stay tuned for just try this that little tidbit after the interview where we try and give you something that's going to help you live a little happier, a little more joyfully and maybe a little longer. So stay tuned for just try this. After my conversation with Dr Chris Reina, we're going to give him a call right now. Dr Chris Reina, wonderful to see you. Where does this podcast find you today?

Speaker 2: 6:13

My Dallas offices. As you know, we got together because I have a clinic that focuses on wellness and health and longevity and we have operating offices right now in three cities Los Angeles, dallas and Miami.

Speaker 1: 6:28

And one of the reasons I'm so curious to talk to you is about the longevity of your longevity practice. You've been doing this since when, like 1990 or 1991? Yes, 1990. I mean, I can't recall in 1990, this being like anywhere near the hot topic and the sort of amount of media that it's, how many financial and time resources are going into this. It's really balloon since then.

Speaker 2: 6:52

Oh yeah tremendously. 1990 actually was just before the threshold of anti-aging was coined. If there is anything that was catalytic about that year, it wasn't my moving from an interventional or reactive practice into a preventive, proactive practice. It was a paper published in the New England Journal by a investigator named Daniel Rudman. Dr Rudman is an endocrinologist who published a paper in 1990 that ended up being fodder, if not fuel, for the anti-aging movement from which we now all benefit. What Dr Rudman looked at was the effect of human growth hormone replacement in an elderly population of people, and what he concluded was that the resulting increase in growth factors and metabolism that that stimulated their performance and ability more than people who received the placebo. Rudman's paper was an interesting paper, published at the highest level of medical scrutiny. That became much more interesting later on. A few years later, a few doctors and a lay person with a business idea got together and started an educational organization called the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine, and it was not the only academy or place where physicians and lay people could go for information and education on the subject. There were other groups that had predated them, but that one was the one focused on an aging, and I believe that the reason for that? I mean it would be interesting to interview the founders of that organization and find out from their own perspective what they think. But I remember that they were enthusiastic about not only Rudman's publication but Rudman's idea. That year, in 1990, although it may seem much closer in time to your listening audience than we would think pretty much predated bioidentical hormone replacement ideas. There were some bioidentical hormone replacement protocols in place during that time, but they weren't popular at all and most people were either going hormone deficient whenever their bodies quit making them or turning to medications that acted in some ways like hormones but were not hormones at all.

Speaker 2: 9:21

1990, I started Lifespan Medicine with the idea of getting into the room with a person sooner than when they had their diagnosis. If you think about the paradigm of reactive medicine, you develop symptoms, you go to the doctor, you tell your doctor your symptoms, your doctor names your disease whatever it is and then gives you the standing therapeutic and their job is done. Then you're followed up by the nurse, or not followed up at all, or everything is left to you. There's really not much education. There's orientation in that but not much education in that. I had practiced primary care for 10 years by 1990.

Speaker 2: 10:04

And I saw in the mid 1990, mid 1980s that if I could just get to the person sooner than they had diabetes or sooner than they had coronary disease or sooner than they had any of the major medical diagnoses that were afflicting people, then even if I could give them some information and advice about how to minimize their exposure or susceptibility to viral illness, it was going to make a difference in their life. So I founded Lifespan Medicine with the overt goal of early detection and education, mandates, prevention and guarantees improvement. Those were the basic principles. It didn't occur to me that that would correlate to anti-aging. I didn't really think about aging at the time, although had you asked me, common sense would have elicited the response of sure, if you're healthier, you're bound to live longer. If you don't have diabetes, coronary disease, kidney disease or if you're not susceptible to pneumonia, what's going to kill you? But it wasn't really my focus at the time. It was about early detection, mandating, prevention and patient education, avoiding disease. So it was a wellness or well-being practice. It was a shift from insurance reimbursement to cash. So the financial model of cash practice was really not an existence in 1990. And one of the things that it did both for me and to me, was help me realize the value of my ability to communicate with the individual. No matter how good my information, if I couldn't convey it to the individual, they wouldn't be able to implement it, they wouldn't benefit from it and they would stop coming to me. There wasn't an endless line of sick people out the door that were going to come to me whether I knew what I was doing or not. Now I was really going to have to perform and I think that the theme of that has carried forward and helped the anti-aging movement achieve legitimacy. So, to keep going forward in the timeline, in the early 1990s the A4M started to bring forward ideas about anti-aging medicine, the Institute for Functional Medicine, which I believe was more the creation of dedicated professionals than A4M. A4m had better marketing and they had arguably better conferences in terms of the menu of speakers, but IFM Institute of Functional Medicine was really educating physicians, showing us how to take the information about integrative medicine and turn it into healthcare protocols that would make a difference in a person's life. So, fast forward through the 1990s.

Speaker 2: 12:57

Other than human growth hormone or a bioidentical hormone replacement, what was there? Well, there was all of the unexplored territory in medical practice of nutrition, sleep and psychology, because nutrition, sleep and psychology were really unspoken issues in the 1980s and before. William Clement, who might arguably be the father of modern sleep medicine, didn't publish his first book until the early 80s that behavioral foundation, when I founded Lifespan. I had educated my, I had bespoke education beyond my residency, training for five years, and what I realized in preparing to go naked into the uninsured world and try and make a living was that I would have to know about nutrition, sleep, exercise, and I would have to understand perspective, perspective as defined as a person's view of themselves in their place in the world as it pertains to their daily behaviors. How do you get somebody to eat better? You have to start with understanding how you know the information and then conveying it to them, but you also have to understand how to support them in the process of making behavioral changes, and that's where the behavioral psychology aspect came in.

Speaker 2: 14:14

Then there was a burgeoning world of nutritional supplementation and this other world of using drugs for off-label purposes, all of which have been folded into the anti-aging movement and longevity movement now that make up the cornerstones on which we rely. So lifespan was organized around the idea that each of us is dependent upon diet, exercise, sleep and perspective, and that the superstructure of our consciousness, the superstructure of our self-concept, was an inseparable interaction, ongoing and constant, among neurochemicals, hormones and immune chemicals, and that, in fact, I had been taught that there was an immune system, a nervous system and an endocrine system. No one ever told me they work together. No one ever pointed out the fact that those were inseparable and that every neuromodulator was an immune modulator and every immune modulator was a neuromodulator and hormones modulated them both. And it's like oh and all this has been going on, you know, since that first cry, the first slap on the butt. So fantastic, this is great stuff. You know, I mean how exciting to have this new view of my medical education and my opportunity.

Speaker 2: 15:30

So the superstructure upon which we rely for our consciousness is conducted through that inseparable processing and that's where we live. Until our body calls upon us, until it demands our attention or until we give it our attention, like when we're getting groomed, or when we're getting dressed, or when we're checking ourselves out. We all live in the self-concept, this electrical hologram that's created by all of that chemical interaction that is evolving and being re-informed and renewed on a daily basis and that's where we want to live. You know, we don't want a bad knee to distract us from our ideas and our thoughts and our conversations. And really, if you think about what's the goal of longevity, the goal of longevity is to remain so functional that you forget about your body and you just spend all your time in your ideas and in the expression of those ideas.

Speaker 2: 16:33

It occurred to me that there would be, you know, an audience of paying public.

Speaker 2: 16:38

And I'm still here, the clinic is still going, we have three locations, not one, and so to it. In a certain extent, it was true, the 1990s didn't conclude with the same fantastic crescendo that I had imagined, and I'll tell you what the origins of my imaginings were. There was a sort of a burst of articles published about human stem cells and their potential during my bespoke education. I barely knew, I mean, I barely remembered what a stem cell was during the beginning of that education in 85 or 86, and I found lots of articles in the medical library that were being published recently about these cells and the amazing potential of these cells in therapies. So I thought stem cells, now that it had the light of attention, would probably become usable, would probably become valuable in a decade or two. At the same time, 1988 launched the Human Genome Project and there was a great deal of excitement about once we map the human genome, we're going to understand it, and once we understand it, we're going to be able to manage it. Well, you know, in my naivete.

Speaker 2: 17:58

I thought you know I've made this transition from a reactive practice to a proactive practice and within 10 or 15 years everybody's going to be doing this Like. I'm not going to be the guy standing out or standing apart anymore, everybody's going to be standing around me and the guys left in reactive medicine are going to be the oddballs. Well, you know, the wheels of science don't turn that quickly. So, as we've all seen, stem cells are still of tremendous potential and barely harnessed, barely understood.

Speaker 2: 18:32

We learned once we map the human genome that there were 4.6 billion possible combinations and, like so many other models of highly complex systems, we had no ability to understand. What we could do was go to work every day and learn how to better communicate the principles and understanding that we had, how to streamline the programs, make it easier for people to adopt. We could stay current with the information so that what we thought about carotines in 1995 was either confirmed or denied by 1999 and what we thought about this or that other diagnosis or tool would just continue to evolve and we would all get better and better at it and for those people who we advised, they would be better for. And that's pretty much the story of lifespan. I've taken you from 1990 to 2000 in my recollections at the moment, but I'm happy to pause and let you comment or ask another question.

Speaker 1: 19:37

Thinking back in my own memory about the human genome project and about all the incredible things that we were going to be able to do once we understood this, and not so much. Well, not yet, anyway, not yet.

Speaker 2: 19:52

And.

Speaker 1: 19:52

I think it's one of the things that I like the analogy of the flying car that in 1965 I was promised a flying car. I still don't have a flying car. This has colored my expectation on certain things. The same with human genome project. There are a number of things that have come along every decade and, oh, this is going to be marvelous. Everything's going to change, and well, not so much, but I think that now, maybe because I talked to a lot of people in this field, it feels like things are quite different and I want to get to where that's going. But let's, I want to back up a little bit and talk about what your theories are right now and your practices in lifespan. So the first thing you mentioned was HGH human growth hormone Pluses and minuses on that. Are you using this in your practice with with certain patients? What are the outcomes you're looking at, or is this something you've just decided? We don't want to go there.

Speaker 2: 20:50

If you think about the organization of my thoughts I mentioned earlier it's diet, exercise, sleep, perspective, hormones, immune function, brain chemistry. And HGH fits in that fifth category of hormones that is an introduction or a member of the bigger subject. You know the pantheon of hormones that help us avoid disease and loss of functionality and growth factors. So what HGH does when you're producing it yourself or when you're taking it as a replacement hormone, regardless of your age is it stimulates the production of a growth factor called IGF-1. And IGF-1 is a very important representative of the families of growth factors that help connect metabolism in a very efficient way and therefore help us conclude the cycle of action that eating, exercising, sleeping are meant to do. Growth hormone replacement yes, we, you know we. We will advise certain of our clients to take growth hormone replacement. I'll come back and tell you why I call them clients in a moment. To take growth hormone replacement, if not an ongoing basis, then to see over a relatively long temporary period, so three months to a year of what types of improvements do they have with higher levels of growth factors? I'm going to talk about bioidentical hormones in a larger subject with other members of that pantheon in a moment, but growth hormone is an interesting, very interesting member of that group of tools, because what we see is that centenarians have very low growth factors. So it looks like, evolutionarily, our decline in growth factor production may have been beneficial at some point or for a very long period of time. Through evolution, it may have been beneficial to make fewer of those growth factors and have a lesser metabolism and spend fewer resources on maintaining muscle mass and connective tissue, which is what these growth factors focus on. Now, that's over a very long period of food scarcity. It doesn't look at all at the modern day of food abundance.

Speaker 2: 23:13

So when you ask a question about well, are growth factors good for you or not, are they not good for you?

Speaker 2: 23:18

As is the answer, as is in many biological you know subjects both they're both. One must be very careful in encouraging someone to take growth hormone or the peptides which stimulate growth factors and there are others beyond growth hormone because there are certain common cancers that are very growth factor sensitive. So far there's no proved relationship in causation. If you take growth hormone, you're not increasing your chance of having a growth factor sensitive cancer. But if your biologic fate leads you to develop one of those cancers and you're on that growth hormone growth factor stimulant, then you're going to be helping that tumor and you know that's probably the last thing you ever want to do is help a tumor. To prescribe or recommend growth hormone responsibly, one must not only understand all of the physiological connections that that is going to or may bring about, but also be sure that the person who's taking it has kept up with their checkups and has used as much modern technology as possible to know that they don't currently have one of those tumors.

Speaker 1: 24:28

I want to stop you there. Let's talk about, when you use the word checkup, and modern technology, modern cancer screening. So there are blood-based tests that one can take Grail, I believe, is the best known. There are other sort of full-bodied MRIs, I don't know what else is out there. When someone comes to see you for a checkup, I'm guessing it's extensive. So what are the sort of tests that you're performing on people?

Speaker 2: 24:54

But we employ the two technologies that you mentioned. Grail for your listeners is the lab Gallery, is the test itself.

Speaker 1: 25:02

Oh, excuse me.

Speaker 2: 25:03

The gallery test is as far as we have come in terms of looking at the unique biochemical products of tumors and being able to identify them when they not so much are existent in the body, but when they have reached a level that predicts a tumor, because there are many tumors starts that the immune system recognizes and destroys, and those tumor starts produce some of those byproducts that could be measured in the blood. But it would never go anywhere. If the gallery test had such a low sense, had such a high sensitivity that it identified precancerous molecules or cancerous molecules, it would not be very accurate. So what that laboratory had to figure out was where do we draw the line and how sensitive can we be without becoming chicken? Little you know, telling every person who has our test that, oh, we think you have a cancer. There's an antibody that the immune system makes in response to cancer, called anti malignant antibody. It was. It was the predecessor of the gallery test in the 1990s, and when I learned of it I incorporated it in all my exams and everybody had it and it really disturbed a lot of people, including me, because everybody had this antibody that was being made in their body in response to cancer and now it was a search for where is the tumor and it turns out everybody has it all the time and they're you know, mitotic breaks and cancers forming all the time and you know what goes on to become a clinical significant cancer. That's what we had to figure out and the gallery test has really taken the first step in that direction. It's going to get much better. It'll learn from all of us participating and continued research how to identify stage one cancers more accurately. Right now it does not. It doesn't have the sensitivity necessary to detect most stage one cancers, but it gets better at stage two, really good at stage three. Of course. You know we all detect that at stage four. So the gallery test is one that we do.

Speaker 2: 27:22

Something less technological is a skin inspection for melanoma. Melanoma is one of the common tumors that's growth factor sensitive. So having a dermatologist look at you with a magnifying glass standing in your birthday soup or as close to that as your dermatologist wants you to, that can be very helpful and I think that's one of the tests that we would have. We have all our clients do, especially if a client is going to start or is taking growth factor stimulants Dental examinations Most people meet with their hygienist quarterly or more often than that. We encourage that, but everybody should meet with their dentist at least once a year and have the dentist glove up and feel your jawline and feel your cheeks and your lips and look carefully down your throat, because they're the overseers of oral pharyngeal cancers. You know, and they got to tell us whether we have one of those or have something look suspicious or not. In terms of reproductive organ examinations, of course pelvic exams, pelvic ultrasounds, breast ultrasounds, mammography when appropriate, prostate imaging or prostate examination, prostate blood tests, the PSA, the MDX, a number of other tests that look at cancerous factors that might be being produced by your prostate gland. All of those things are on our list of the early, our responsibility to our health and the early detection of those tumors. So, yes, we employ all those technologies.

Speaker 2: 28:56

We understand and promote, recommend bioidentical hormone replacement, even though bioidentical hormone replacement has yet to be proved to extend lifespan. So you know, you may think that that's a conflict with our goals for longevity. Bioidentical hormone replacement increases functionality. I don't know that anyone has invested the money, in part because bioidentical hormones are not patented products. They're naturally occurring substances. So the profitability in researching and selling them is, you know, much less.

Speaker 2: 29:30

I'm not aware of any papers that say that bioidentical hormone replacement extend life. Getting back to the centenarians and the growth factors, though, I think and the way we manage it at lifespan is that if your health-related goals, your health-related needs and your laboratory tests align, those three factors can make you an absolute, really good candidate for growth factor stimulation through peptides or growth hormone replacement. It's even clearer when you're talking about estrogen and women and testosterone in men, and yet the same caveat exists you have to be sure that they don't have an estrogen-sensitive or just, you know, androgen-sensitive tumor. So again, you know, I think I'm over answering your questions, so I want to pause and let you have a chance, but that's our thought about hormone replacement in that scheme of you know those important topics.

Speaker 1: 30:30

What comes to mind is the balance between optimizing current functionality, I guess, and then the sort of future trade-off on that. The example that really is a very important one. That example that really comes to mind is I know a lot of high-performing athletes and with a high-performing athlete it's all about this sort of window of time, maximum performance, and they're not thinking too much about what happens 30, 40, 50 years down the road. But I think that to a lesser extent, the same paradigm can be done for people who are in their 50, 60, 70s. And are you having these kind of conversations with folks that's saying like, hey, well, yeah, you may feel better and be stronger now, but maybe this isn't long-term best for you. Or is there sort of a Goldilocks center there that we aim for In?

Speaker 2: 31:22

those choices. The Goldilocks concept is really the goal. But the Goldilocks concept is really a more complicated and highly individualized than the allegory meaning balance is quite a subject and achieving balance Now when we're talking about, let's just say, objective measurements of balance, a person comes in and they have high adrenal stress hormone and low adrenal raw material. They have imbalances of their reproductive hormones, they have thyroid out of whack, their growth factors are too low or their binding protein, which neutralizes the growth factors effect, is too high. You have one of these very chaotic hormonal profiles. We think that the best way to handle that is to go back to the foundation and look at diet, exercise, sleep and perspective. I didn't think of it in the moment, but I could relate the hormone picture I gave you to each of those topics about what goes up or down with insufficient sleep and what goes up or down with too much stress and what goes up or down with a high carbohydrate, simple sugar diet or, for that matter, high fat diet. All of that corresponds the our approach is your longevity. With today's abilities, your longevity is going to be 80% dependent upon your daily habits and behaviors and 20% influence by tools. If you use every tool that's proved. And if you can't afford every tool that's proved, or you don't want to afford every tool that's proved or you don't have the time to afford every tool, then it'll be more dependent upon behavior and less dependent upon tools. But right now it's about an 80-20 deal.

Speaker 2: 33:34

I anticipate you asking me at some point what do I think about the future? And I'll preempt that now and say that I think that in 10 years it'll be a 70-30. And I think in 25 years it'll be 50-50. As long as we live in this hulking, somatic form, we're not going to escape or succeed the impact of diet, exercise and sleep or avoid the impact of perspective. So as long as we're still based to this carbon system, carbon-based system, futuristic ideas sound like fiction until they're real. And there may come a time for humanity and I'd be happy to explain to you why I think this is even a valid thing to say there may come a time when we're not so biologically based, as I described earlier. Most of us live in the world of the self-generated informatics and what we've seen is that there are less needy and more reliable systems of informatics than the human body. Again, I'll forecast. What am I really, what am I excited about? And I'm excited about things in biology, but I'm also very I'm intrigued and very excited about things in informatics.

Speaker 2: 35:02

We're on the verge of developing generative AI and we have developed generative AI. We're considering both the risks and benefits of sentient AI. I think that the way our brain works, we are naturally drawn to the risk before we're drawn to the opportunity, and I think that works. That's kept us here and that's brought us as forward in our technologies as we've come, which I think is phenomenal. So I think we do need to be cautious about generative AI and about controls for that, and I think we need to be even more cautious about sentient AI. But it's clear to me that One brilliant individual or an entire civilization of brilliant individuals don't have the ability to understand complex systems as much as we need to understand them to minimize, if not eliminate, every human vulnerability.

Speaker 2: 36:09

So I'm interested in AI and its impact on bio-tech, its impact on medical practice, on the specific areas of my interest, which is the early detection and changing future of disease. I'm also interested in the things that are going to happen. I think, perhaps sooner, whether, without AI, will we learn to use stem cells in some really productive way? I think the answer to that is yes. I think we already have and we will. Are we going to be able to use CRISPR you know, the gene modification science and technology to change the fate of people with genetically based diseases and then to change the expression of genes through epigenetic manipulations to give us an opportunity to all be healthier for a longer period of time? It's a lock. That's my 10 year thought.

Speaker 2: 36:57

Are we going to understand and be able to correct problems in our nutritional resources, relatively nutrient empty American diet? I don't think we're going to have the opportunity or ability to correct our farming techniques, but I think the technology as technology has in a very crude way, through the development of 100,000 dietary supplements, almost all of which have some assigned benefit, I think we'll be able to organize that better and, if not engineer foods, then be able to identify the food qualities of our dietary sources so that we can really figure out is a carrot bought at my supermarket, what's its nutrient density compared to the carrot I'm buying at the farmers market? Is there a real difference and is there enough of a difference? And do I need to eat three of these carrots in order to make up what I'm looking for, I think that, just more information about that. Think about if a group or organization of individuals were to get together, solicit the contributions of a recognized group of elite thinkers, as well as review all of the existing database.

Speaker 2: 38:12

I'm back to the AI model again. That group or that program could create what I do, without the limitations of the medical mind of Chris Renner, and approach the freedoms of the medical mind of God. If God had a complete understanding of every physiologic system and all of its implications and interactions, what would God recommend we have for supper? Ai holds that potential. Generative AI holds that potential. You know, we wouldn't need a sentient AI to tell us it's to judge us, it would only inform us. So I think that you know the future is amazingly bright, so substantially, so substantial. Now, you know earlier I mentioned that there was scientific basis and that the principles of scientific basis should underline all of the Changes in the behavior that we make, and it should be carefully and considerably applied by a practitioner and informed practitioner with whom we're partnering on this.

Speaker 2: 39:20

I call the people who come to me for advice clients, because the physician patient relationship has an inherent hierarchy that takes agency from the individual and loans it to the expert.

Speaker 2: 39:37

And what I learned in my early years at Lifespan is, if they think of me as their doctor, they're going to rely upon me to change their behavior, and I can't change their behavior. They're going to have to rely upon themselves to do that, and so I've got to be the same guy as their Tax account, or I have to be the same guy as their retirement Advisor. I mean, I have to be an advisor, consultant, but they have to have both the agency and power necessary to make the changes that they, that they for the results they see. It's an exciting, really exciting time, and you know, you reflect on on how long I've been doing this. I don't know that, something that is so demanding In so many different ways, I don't know that I could ever have continued to do it or to be as enthusiastic about it as I am, if it weren't this compelling and it weren't this reward.

Speaker 1: 40:36

I want to note that the client practitioner relationship that you outline, I think, is one of the biggest changes that I personally experienced In the 65 years that I've been walking around. That didn't used to be the case and that's how I personally deal with all of my practitioners and you know we have a discussion and then okay. So what do you think and what am I willing to do? And I like that partnership. I don't know if everyone does, but I do. You're very optimistic about the future, but I want to temper that with some things here. My guess is, since 1991, I mean, we talked about the human genome project, which has been interesting so far, but not really that impactful what is some of the other things that if you've come across that you just thought were like oh my gosh, this is amazing. I can't wait to bring this into my practice and we're got so well.

Speaker 2: 41:33

Ah, I see so the things that I was excited about until I try to use them and found out they weren't as powerful as that. That's right, Sure, and so one of the things that we ask people to do is to support their nutritional needs through dietary supplementation, and one of the innovations 10 or 15 years ago which moved us away from multiple capsules, pills and gels a simpler format were individualized preformed powders. So there was a period of time where I had an opportunity to send the nutrients that I wanted you to take on a regular basis to a company that would then formulate a powder. Send you a powder with all those ingredients and a machine, and you could make a daily beverage out of that. You know, similar to the protein shake that many of our clients rely upon to make sure they meet their protein needs. And instead of you standing in front of the blender with this, all these jars of vitamins, opening it up and pouring the powder or crushing the gel or the pulverizing the pill, this company is going to do it for you, and I thought this is great. This is terrific. It's going to change everything. We're going to have to switch our pharmacy over to this. In fact, it may close our pharmacy. You know, these guys may take over the industry. Frankly, nah, it was a. People got the machines, they got the powders. They did it for a couple of weeks, a couple of months. Then it was like, can you send me those pills again, or they would come for the annual examination. It's like, so how are you doing on that, that vitamin formula? It's like, oh God, I don't know. I don't know where that thing is. I have to find it. You know, I have to ask the housekeeper. I think she put it to closet. That didn't go over that big.

Speaker 2: 43:16

The science and technology of hormone pellets, hormone implants full disclosure. We offer hormone implants, testosterone implants or female biodec hormone implants to our clientele. Some of my physician associates at lifespan are much more enthusiastic about that than I am. I'm not a strong promoter of hormone pellet implantations because the slow release system that they depend upon has not yet been perfected. So for me, let's just say that any 65 year old male comes in with a total testosterone of 350, which is barely above the normal range or in the normal range, and a free testosterone of five, which is below the normal range, and a list of symptoms. Hormone deficiency should be a clinical diagnosis, not a laboratory diagnosis. So a list of symptoms that corresponds to this person suffering from insufficiency. And I'll just put an asterisk by that to say that some people have very low levels of circulating hormones and very high sensitivity to those same hormones. They don't need any more. But the vast majority of people who come in 65 year old guy, low levels and nine of the 12 complaints that are attached to testosterone deficiency. If we put those pellets in a week later, that guy is going to go from 350 to 1500. And he's going to go from, you know, five milligrams of free testosterone to 25 milligrams of free testosterone. And that's just too much acceleration.

Speaker 2: 44:54

That whole idea about hey, I can make this much simpler with this slow release technology hasn't really, in my view, hasn't really been achieved yet. What other things were great. I mean, I have looked at the stem cell programs both at home and abroad and for your listeners who aren't informed, we are physicians in the United States, are not unable to use stem cells other than those we harvest from your own body. And when we use those stem cells, we harvest them either from body fat or from bone marrow and we have to not do anything to condition or change them, and we have to give them back to you within a very short period of time. Those are all the restrictions that we function under.

Speaker 2: 45:40

If you go abroad, you can receive a whole variety of stem cells from different aged people and from different sources umbilical cord and cloned populations and you can even get the extracts from these stem cells, which seem to be a core value of them, in the form of exosomes, and you can have these periodically, and each time my clients have gone abroad to get these, they've reported a blush of improvement for a brief period of time.

Speaker 2: 46:19

What we're all looking forward to is when you could have those same stem cell treatments here in the United States for much less cost and less hassle, and we would learn how to orient those stem cells to not only dissolve and release their valuable contents into your blood, which gives you the blush of improvement for eight weeks or 12 weeks but we would learn to speak to those stem cells and tell them what we need. Like I need more cartilage in my knees, I need, you know, better protein elimination systems in my hippocampal portion of my brain and in fact I need more functioning neurons in my spinal cord to maintain my agility and balance, and right now we can't rely upon stem cells for any of that. I think I definitely thought that we would have been able to rely upon them by now, but not me.

Speaker 1: 47:20

I think this is fascinating. I realize I'm going to be asking you to perhaps give some information you don't want to do. You know we've talked about various kinds of testing. We're talking about hormone replacement, zogenous molecules, serolemus raffaumiasin A lot of people are enthusiastic about that and some other things out there. What are you seeing? Sort of generalized client population that you're seeing is actually moving the needle. You've talked about this 80, 20. So 20 is actually a substantial move.

Speaker 1: 47:51

You can make with the needle. So what are the sort of technologies, the sort of therapies that you see that really do move the needle? Outside of those initial? You spoke about sleep, nutrition and the psychology of the client. What are the things additional to that you're seeing actually move the needle?

Speaker 2: 48:09

Sure, and now I am talking about our programs. It would be paradoxical, if not silly, of me, to talk about things that we could be employing today that would be a benefit to our clientele that we were not employing today. So everything I'm about to describe can be parts of a program for an individual at lifespan. The menu of these things is varies only by the time that you come to lifespan and your individual needs. So what I mean by that is do we do everything to everybody? No, we don't do everything to everybody. Over time. If you give us enough time, we probably will, because we will find the value at the right time and the sequencing of these procedures. But let's talk about the sort of super anti-aging program. The super anti-aging program begins with detoxification, and let's assume that everyone we're talking about is 35 or older. We go through developmental epigenetic changes in our 20s that basically cast our fate for the rest of our lives, and so it may not. You don't know what to do for the 19 year old or the 24 year old. Yes, I mean there are some things we do. We take care of a good number of young professional athletes at a very high level of performance, and there are certainly things in that first schema of diet, exercise, sleep and perspective that can be very influential to themselves and their careers. But let's just talk about the general. You know the likely person who comes to lifespan between age 35 and age 85. And in that 50 years what are we going to think about? We're going to think about detoxification because every year, after 25 or 30, you're producing more toxins in the body than you can eliminate and some of those toxins cannot be eliminated through your biological process. So they're going to be there when you're 85. You're making some byproducts of metabolism that are going to either circulate or remain bound in membranes of two cells for the rest of those 50 years. We can detoxify those. You can grab those and draw them out or you can enhance the elimination process to get much better washing of the membranes, much better detachment of the superficial receptor binders and you can move them out of the blood. You can move them out of the blood through the bowel and through the urine and you can move them out of the blood through filtration. So detoxification is one of the first steps.

Speaker 2: 50:49

Where are the majority of those toxins coming from? Well, they're coming from the invisible input of the environment. We can't see the environment, but we know it's affecting us and we know that we're absorbing some of the toxins from that environment that we can't get rid of. So they're coming from the invisible environment. They're coming from our own metabolism. You know, every time we combust a carbohydrate with an oxygen molecule, we get energy, waste and damage. Two out of three of those things aren't good for us. Two out of three of those things limit our lifespan.

Speaker 2: 51:24

Where are they coming from? They're coming from the process of metabolism, but they're also coming from cells that have reached a point of what's called senescence. Now, senescence is an understood term and it can be applied in many different definitions, but the definition I'm describing is a senescent cell is a cell that has reached its last capable replication. When cells reach the last time they can replicate and this involves telomere science and it also involves other aspects of science in cell biology when they reach that last replication, they're supposed to undergo apoptosis, which is a process of self dismantling. And the apoptosis process is advantageous because it saves and recycles the usable parts while neutralizing the toxic parts.

Speaker 2: 52:20

And what we've learned over the by Jim Kirkman's work at Mayo Clinic over the last 15 years is we are made up of a, depending on our age, we're made up of a preponderance of these senescent cells, and the senescent cells are comparable to an elderly dependent population, and that's a population that uses resources without benefit to the organization or the whole and is toxic to the extent that it cannot really control its membrane dynamics. So things that are made within that cell that should never be secreted are secreted into the cellular community, and one of the things that a different set of investigators than Kirkland showed was that the more senescent cells you have, the faster you age your younger cells. So an older cell population, a senescent population, ages young cells. That's why age accelerates. That's one of the factors and one of the reasons that age accelerates. We need to get rid of this population of older cells. You know we're talking about liver cells, spleen cells, kidney gut, membrane cells. We're not talking about individuals, per people. You don't need to get rid of our elderly population. We need to get rid of our elderly cells so that it will slow down the accumulation of these toxins Because, depending on your age and your physiologic profile, that's, your greatest source of toxicity is yourself.

Speaker 2: 53:46

Okay, how do we do that? You do it through detoxification combined with senolysis. You mentioned rapamycin, sirelimus, a moment ago. It's a well-known drug used off-label to encourage senescence. Jim Kirkland's model used a drug called de-satinib in combination with a nutrient called corsetin. So we treat our patients with rapamycin and de-satinib and corsetin at different intervals in order to continuously call the population of senescent cells, in order to reduce toxicity, in order to enhance the physiologic endpoints.

Speaker 1: 54:28

I want to stop you for a second. So if you're giving somebody a D plus Q protocol, what are the markers that you're looking at to see did this work? Did this not work? You're looking at methylation tests. You're looking at biomarkers. How are you judging whether, whatever the treatment is, it's RAP or other things? How do you know that it's actually working? What are the indicators you're looking at?

Speaker 2: 54:53

We're looking at indirect markers and that's mostly because there are yet no identified direct markers. So we're looking at indirect markers and we're looking at viral load. We're looking at immune system profiles. We're looking at other variables, including DNA methylation, including omic age. I'm sure you know what that is and many of your listeners might be interested in the omic age discussion. So we are looking at that. We're looking at telomere length, but not so much for that purpose, because we don't see the relationship between senolysis and the extension of telomeres. It looks like telomeres predict the need for senolysis. They don't describe the aftermath. So we're looking at all of the easily accessible, currently affordable markers, and they're all indirect because, to my knowledge, there are no direct markers as yet. We're going to have to identify much more specific agents that can tell us that. The first thing we want to know is how much have we reduced the senescent population? So you have to be able to quantify the senescent population or something that's constant or consistent with their contribution to general physiology. And then the second thing would be what are the markers of improvement If we see this level lowered? Is that sufficient, or are we looking for the replacement of those things now generated by the younger cells. So how do we measure the contribution of younger cells, the detraction of older cells? We're going to have to develop those technologies. So, yes, we are measuring things and we are seeing a laboratory difference.

Speaker 2: 56:41

Subjective responses are just that, they're very anecdotal. I have people who go abroad and spend $150,000 on stem cell replacement come back and say I didn't feel a thing, I had travelers diarrhea. So it's like, oh, that was a wholly unsuccessful endeavor. And people going to the same program and coming back and saying my one-rep maximum strength in the gym increased by 25% in one week. My maximum bench press was 180. It went to 220. Ok, fantastic, biological individuality makes up the difference. But there's also a lot of subjectivity that goes into those experiences what you conditioned yourself to think in the beginning and how that affirms or denies what you thought in the end. And what was the experience like? Did they have trouble with the IV? Did you get travelers diarrhea? Did it cost twice as much as you thought? It was? All of the subjective facts. So subjectively, yes, we see improvements.

Speaker 2: 57:44

We don't see anybody who goes through the program of detoxification, senolysis or the next step, which is plasma pharesis. Plasma pharesis or apharesis, the process by which you can use several different techniques to filter out identifiable products in the blood, and it's approved by FDA in a round almost as long or longer than lifespan, and it has been used and applied very effectively in reducing autoimmune antibody load. But it's also been showed to be able to remove a lot of other substances that cannot be removed from the blood. Some of those toxins I talked about earlier and I'll come back and define toxin in a minute Some of those toxins I talked about earlier can't be removed by your body. You have to get a magnet take them out.

Speaker 2: 58:35

A toxin, by the way, in this discussion, is any substance in the body that no longer has a defined positive purpose. So toxin and poison in this subject or this conversation, is different. So a toxin may be an inert compound that your body may, that it can't get rid of and it may not have any activity ever, but it's still in the way you know, it's still part of you that no longer is purposeful and as we grow older we can't afford that. We have to reduce that toxicity in order to make way for easier and more efficient physiology. So detoxification, senolysis, plasmapheresis we like the energy devices and I'm on very solid ground with those first three subjects and I'm on less solid ground now.

Speaker 2: 59:26

But we believe that PEMF is beneficial. We believe that red light therapy is beneficial and, like anything else, it's beneficial when you're using the most advanced technology in the most proved protocol. So if you buy a red light box and sit in front of a red light box at a distance of so many feet that you just assembled because of where it fits in your room, where it fits in your gym, you may not be getting the value that you were seeking. You may not be getting any value at all. It depends on the wavelength of the red light and the distance between you and the red light. So you have to do this with good information. You have to get people who really understand this to tell you which PEMF to use and how frequently to use it and in what circumstance and how is it applied.

Speaker 2: 1:00:19

And same thing with red light hyperbaric oxygen. There are lots of affordable hyperbaric oxygen tents that use an oxygen concentrator to create 100% oxygen environment within the tent at 1.4 atmospheres, which is only 4-tents of an atmosphere more than what you and I are experiencing in this moment. Well, none of the research that says that hyperbaric oxygen changes longevity or even health functionality uses anything less than 2.0 atmospheres and none of those little plastic tubes can tolerate that. You have to go the distance, meaning you have to go to a hyperbaric oxygen center or spend quite a lot of money to install one of these in your gym and then, according to the research done in Israel, to gain the benefit you'd have to spend 60 hours every 90 days in the chamber. We discussed that with our clientele. We would certainly encourage that and for some disease diagnoses it may be really important, but we don't really encourage people to install 2.0 chambers or 2.4 medical chambers.

Speaker 1: 1:01:29

A medical device.

Speaker 2: 1:01:30

Right. We have some very good benefits associated with infrared sauna and we are proponents of infrared sauna. There are good and some different benefits from wet sauna, the more traditional type. We will inform our clientele of that and encourage them to do either or both. We see the benefits of cold plunge, especially in juxtaposed to heating. We see the addition of certain breathing patterns popularized by Wim Hof through social media, founded by the Ayurvedic basis of medicine 8,000 or 9,000 years ago yogurt breathing. We see combining heat exposure, cold plunge breathing techniques as being highly therapeutic and therefore rejuvenating in their own ways.

Speaker 2: 1:02:22

You can, if you want to, spend the money on analyzing blood tests before and after. You can prove that One of the areas that is new and, I would say, very hidden that I think you'll see. You may see more on it. It'll depend on a lot of different factors that I can't really predict today, but one of the alternative treatments for cancer and untreatable infection over the last 25 or 30 years has been hyperthermia.

Speaker 2: 1:02:54

Hyperthermia is heating the body, inducing a fever. We know that fever induction is a response by our immune system to a very specific set of circumstances that can be life-saving In meningitis it's life-saving We've learned that if you have the ability to control brain temperature, which I would just mention for your listeners. I'm unaware of any clinic outside the United States that has that technology. So you could go for hyperthermia treatments, either for health and longevity, for cancer or for untreatable infection, but I wouldn't recommend it. If you have the ability to accurately measure deep brain temperature while you're raising the body temperature, you can bring about some very valuable therapeutic responses. Because it's such a defined and specific narrow application, there's not a lot of science on its benefits other than its use in neurodegenerative disease, untreatable infection like drug-resistant tuberculosis or Lyme or cancer. But we think that's a burgeoning air of science that in the next 10 years will become developed and more accessible to individuals.

Speaker 1: 1:04:12

Wonderful. We've talked about so much and I don't want to bore our people with it. You have too much of their time. I just quickly want to ask you can you summarize how you would detoxify someone? A number of these things we've talked about here sort of fall into that Venn diagram. But if I come into you and I say, okay, detoxify me, what would you do?

Speaker 2: 1:04:30

Yeah, it would, of course, be customized to your profile, but in general, we could use intravenous phosphatidolcholine, intravenous folic acid, we could use intravenous vitamin C and we can take blood from you, ozonate the blood and reintroduce the blood in a very short period of time. That will hyperoxidinate you, making it easier to move toxic substances from the membrane into the circulation and out of the circulation through the usual elimination pathways. At the same time, we can identify which nutrient deficiencies are most likely impacting your inability to detoxify. We can look at a huge area of contribution to either the toxicity or detoxification process, which is the microbiome. You can do that through one of several not many, but several stool analysis tests. We can look at salivary microbiome for the mouse and we can look at the upper digestive tract microbiome with testing tube. And we can. If we coordinate these different measures so that we're not asking you to overlap or duplicate or do things that are either going to be conflicting or non-purposeful, we can do a very efficient detoxification, senolysis, plasma phoresis program in as few as three months. It's not just doable, we're doing it, We've been doing it for a while and we are seeing both objective and subjective improvements.

Speaker 2: 1:06:07

I won't say even more like more exciting things. But there are more exciting things to talk about. I don't know about listener fatigue or, for that matter, you're David fatigue. There are more things to talk about. Exosomes are huge. Exosomes are the language of the body. If you think about it for a moment, you cut your finger and, over a period of three to five days, your finger heals.

Speaker 2: 1:06:37

What happened Exactly? How did that happen? When you cut your finger, you bled. You put pressure on it. The bleeding stopped. You put a band-aid on it. You might have put some antibiotic ointment on it. Okay, great, what's happened?

Speaker 2: 1:06:50

What's happened is immune system cells were called by the damaged cells to the site of the laceration, as were stem cells. When the immune system cells, the stem cells, showed up on the scene, they had to communicate to initiate the process that would ultimately result in your healing. What's their language? How do they speak to one another? Asages in the падage. How does that work? Did you work? Your little, little《inaudible》? What's the problem with that? Exosomes?

Speaker 2: 1:07:19

Exosomes is the lingua franca of the human body, of the mammalian body. It may be the lingua franca of everybody. How exciting is that? And understanding how to condition a stem cell population or an immune system population. If, in my simplistic, over-simplistic paradigm, the immune system is giving instructions to the stem cell that it interpreted from the damaged cell, if that's how the conversation ensues, we could get a farm of immune system cells, white blood cells. We could get a farm of stem cells, certainly more capable than yours or mine, some 19-year-old young lady or some 19-minute-old person, a girl, only girl stem cells are valuable, female, but we could harvest those cells. We could then communicate with those cells as if it was a site of an elasteration, harvest the exosomal contents and have those exosomal contents to give to people, even before they showed signs of wear and tear or before they showed signs of injury or inefficient processes. This is a really exciting topic. Exosomes are really exciting.

Speaker 1: 1:08:38

Chris. Huge amount of information there. Thank you so much. I love the longevity of lifespan. If I were like a marketing guy, I would do something with that. It's really good. Thank you so much. We'll put contact information in the show notes if anyone wants to get in touch with you or with Lifespan. This has been tremendously informative. I really appreciate your time. I know you're a super busy guy.

Speaker 2: 1:09:00

I enjoyed it too. I don't think I could have enjoyed it more, and I would say that anyone who does reach out, we'd be happy to help them in any way that we can in terms of working together. Everybody's welcome.

Speaker 1: 1:09:13

Thank you, take care now, bye-bye. A big thanks to Dr Chris Rayna and understanding the origins of what he would call anti-aging medicine, so the origins of modern anti-aging medicine and what his protocols are, what his sort of hierarchy of tests are. I think that this is quite interesting and if you've been listening to the podcast over the last couple of years, you'll see there's a lot of commonality to how physicians in this space are apportioning their patients. Of course, they're all somewhat different in how they work, but there is some commonality there and I have actually been making a list of these and sort of creating a hierarchy for the physicians that I have, because a lot of them are truly not as knowledgeable about this as people like Chris and the other people we've had on the podcast. So that may be useful to all of you we're going to get with. Just try this. After a quick word from our sponsor, today's show is also brought to you by Inside Tracker, the dashboard to your inner health. I've been using Inside Tracker for over three years now. I've been able to reduce my inner age from my chronological age of 65 to an inner age now of 56. I did this gradually over time following their recommendations, because not only with Inside Tracker do I have a dashboard to my inner health, knowing what's going on inside me. I also have a roadmap on how to improve that. Their food first. Supplements, second recommendations have helped me tremendously. I recommend everyone get a dashboard to their inner health. Go to insidetrackercom. Slash a just save 20% on all their products this week on. Just try this.

Speaker 1: 1:10:59

We talk a lot about sleep, the importance of sleep. You know, as I tell so many people who are looking for you know, an easy solution to things if you're not sleeping well, you know really nothing else is going to work, because that's where all the repair happens, that's where your brain gets cleared out. You got to sleep well. So one of the tricks that I use to really help me with my sleep is super low cost. It's an eye mask, and I think I got mine off of Amazon. I think it was about five bucks. It's got some funny like Arctic Bear or something like that. You know they're all basically the same and I've been wearing one of these now for I don't know three or four years and it makes a gigantic difference. And I think the trick with anything that you do with your sleep is consistency to just wear it all the time and then it doesn't become like a novel thing for your brain and it's just, you know, I put the mask on and then my partially my brain gets signals like okay, it's time to go to sleep. One of the things to understand is that our eyes are extraordinarily sensitive to changes in light, that your eyelids are really not that thick and they trance. You know there's a lot of light that gets transmitted through the eyelid into your eye and by wearing it, something as simple as a light mask, it's a heck of a lot cheaper than trying to 100% black out your room, right, just black out your eyes and then you know I like I travel a bit. It's very helpful. So I just try this this week. Maybe try to get yourself an eye mask. They're about five bucks and chances are you're going to sleep a lot better.

Speaker 1: 1:12:38

Thanks so much for staying with us on the show today. You know I really really appreciate all your guys' attention and it's so nice when I get emails and people reach out. They're like how are you doing? I have a question for your last guest. Any of that it's I really like that. If you're so inclined, you can just hit me up, david, at SuperAgecom. I answer all my email personally and promptly. This is also the point of the show where we ask you a favor Could you leave us a rating, whatever platform you're on? Maybe just go and like leave us a rating, leave us a comment hopefully a good one, because that's the way we grow and if you really like what we're doing here, maybe pass this on to someone you know, someone who you think could use this. It's been great having you with us this week. Everyone have a wonderful week. I hope people are getting some good sleep and we'll see you next week. Take care now.