AGEIST
The AGEIST podcast is where we rewrite life after 50. Hosted by David Stewart, founder of AGEIST and Super Age, we talk with extraordinary people—scientists, creatives, and thinkers—about living vibrantly in your 50s, 60s, 70s and beyond. From longevity science to emotional well-being, fitness to purpose, we explore the tools and mindsets that help us stay curious, energized, and deeply engaged with life. This isn’t about aging gracefully—it’s about living boldly.
AGEIST
Adam Smith: Why We Feel So Fragmented
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Adam Smith, MA, Senior Spiritual Wellness Provider at Canyon Ranch Tucson, brings clinical spiritual care training, pastoral care education, and years of experience supporting people through trauma, hospice, loss, and life transitions to the table. In this conversation with David Stewart, he argues that modern life has left many people overstimulated, over-measured, and disconnected from the deeper practices that make a life feel complete. .
Adam explains how choosing uncertainty over worry can create calm, why walking meditation can reconnect us to the body, and how flow state depends more on adaptability than mastery. As you listen, take note of his suggestions for practical language in resilience after 50: less obsession with control, more self-compassion, more presence, and a willingness to trade the spectacular for the nourishing.
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Tune in to hear more on this episode of The AGEIST Podcast or check out the full interview transcript.
Welcome to episode 288 of the Ages Podcast. I'm David Stewart. This week, we're moving back to Adam Smith from Kenyon Ranch, and we're gonna have a conversation around spiritual care. I've been thinking a lot about why we feel so fractured, why things feel so fragmented these days. And I really think we're in a time which we can best characterize as being liminal. So liminal is sort of like the space between two things. And liminal is a word my good friend Chip Connolly uses a lot for personal liminality, sort of going from one phase to another, cocoon to butterfly, sort of thing. And it's this weird, uncomfortable time. I think that not only are many of us personally in sort of a personal liminal moment, but I feel like the word we live in is awesome. It seems like we're moving between something that was to something new, and we're in this sort of borderland in between. And it's it's not very comfortable. I have to say personally, it feels kind of weird. And, you know, you can see this in the in the culture, in the politics, not just here, but around the world. We've got AI. There's just like a lot of stuff that's in between. And this is one of the reasons I wanted to bring Adam back. It feels like there's this desire to, rather than to go towards something on a personal level, to like engage in activities going towards something, to go away, like to escape. Now, I'm not saying that escape is bad. Like a lot of things that I do, I really enjoy. I went skydive training in this like tube. Basically, it's like a, you know, it's like an eight-foot-round tube with a giant fan. You sort of float, it was amazing. It was just like this ecstatic experience. More on that later. So I I enjoy a good escape activity. I watched a basketball game last night. It was wonderful. But I I think that there used to be, and I sound like an old person when I say this, more of a move towards things rather than only away from things. And you see this with organizations, religious organizations, they're on the decline, various membership groups, they're on the decline. There's just like a lot of stuff out there that isn't around. And so we're in this very odd time. And I think it causes a great deal of anxiety, at least with me. I know a lot of my friends. And I think it's particularly difficult for younger people. I hear this more from them because they haven't known a time that's more stable. And I'm not, you know, I mean, Jesus, I was born in 1958. So like I, you know, the 60s, 70s, 80s. There was a lot of upheaval there, but it was different. It's all I can say. It was a moving towards something versus a pullback. This is all too much. Like I just feel like there's too much coming at us. There's too much that we have to discern, is it real or not? Is somebody telling us the truth or not? So I think that one of the things we see here is there's this desire for these uh activities to escape from. And they may involve sort of adrenalizing moments. I love those. Those are great. But there isn't this sort of integration. It's not a way for many of these things to new insights. And what can happen is you sort of keep upping the threshold for what excitement is, for what the necessary need for escape is. That's a bit of a sidetrack. So what I've done is I brought Adam back. We're rerunning this episode that I ran with Adam Smith from Canyon Ranch. And I think this is really topical of the moment. It it feels to me that we are all being pulled in different directions. And it's not just about age, like here I am, I'm 40, I don't know what to do, I'm 60, you know, there's this sort of new phase in life. Yeah, there's all that, but this it's compounded within this culture that we're in. And everything is just sort of being teased apart. And you feel it the extremes of politics, extremes of culture, these sort of things. And then you also sort of see it, this newfound enthusiasm for psychedelics, of which I have nothing against. I think these are good experiences. It's something that I'm investigating myself. I haven't done anything yet. But I think we're looking for something deeper, something to move towards, some sort of insights that we can gain. Whereas, you know, Instagram and X and all of that is something very different. Anyway, it's a funny time right now. It's a very tricky time. And muddling through this, I think there's a difficulty here. And as I mentioned earlier, for younger people, and I know a lot of people my age, we sort of was like, you know, buck up, you youngsters, like we went through it. No, no, no, no. This is this is very different. Being 25 now, with everything that's swirling around, I don't know how well I would handle that. It's difficult 40 years later, handling it. So a little patience for those that are a little younger than us. Anyway, back to what we've got going on this week. We've got Adam Smith from Canning Ranch, who we're bringing back. Adam is trained in clinical and spiritual care, something I think a lot of us can really use. I want to say something quick about Canning Ranch and their longevity aid program, which I'm back there in August, mid-August for their for their LA program in Tucson. And I've done a couple of these so far. And I'm going to tell you a secret. Everybody who's been in the previous cohorts, to a person, every single one of them, have come in because there's, they're like, oh, there's the biomarkers, there's the health stuff, there's the doctors, and that's all great. These are fabulous, like best in class people there. Every single one of the people there have told me that the most meaningful, life-changing thing that happened to them at Kenyon Ranch during longevity 8 were the mental health conversations and the spiritual conversations, one of which they probably had with Adam. So just saying. So Adam's been trained in clinical and spiritual care. He's spent years working with people inside some very intense environments, trauma centers, hospices, and the deeper questions that tend to arrive when life stops behaving the way we expected it to, sort of like what's going on now. So this is not a conversation about religion or anything like that. It's about what is often missing from modern life, this sense of presence, meaning, and connection. And this is exactly what I'm talking about. The ability to sit with uncertainty without turning it into worry. And if there's one thing that we are surrounded by right now in the world, it is uncertainty. So, as he says, we can't define our value by how productive we are. And I think that matters right now. We live in a world that rewards speed, optimization, measurement, and control. And I'm very much part of that world. I just, I just took off my last CGM out of my arm and I'm going to get another one next week. I like biomarkers. I like goals. I like knowing what these numbers say, but there is very much a limit about what these numbers can tell us. They can show us how we are functioning, but not what we were stand for. They cannot show us how to be a whole human with all of our humanness. They're going to tell us one thing. My CDM, it tells me my blood glucose level. Okay, that's helpful. But that's as far as it's going to get us. So Adam is a really interesting guy. He has a way of taking these big, slightly uncomfortable questions and he makes them practical. He's one of the more interesting people I have ever sat with. Like, what does it mean to enjoy your life? What does it mean to be present? What does it mean to stop confusing worry with responsibility? What does it mean to build resilience and not just talking about toughness, but openness? Here's a few moments from this conversation.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, navigating uncertainty, that is a skill that can help with flow state big time. If you can't navigate uncertainty, how are you going to be in a flow state? Because flow state is about adaptability, to put it in the words of Anthony DeMello. That's how he defines enlightenment. But I would say the same thing about flow state is an absolute cooperation with the inevitable.
SPEAKER_00What I like about this episode and why we're bringing it back is Adam asks us to get more honest about our reality as opposed to distancing ourselves from it. Uncertainty, loss, ambition, physical change, their goals we still care about. And then there is the question of whether we can actually enjoy the process of moving towards them. At Aegist and also at superage, we spend a lot of time talking about strength, health span, performance, and capability. In fact, we created the Super Age games, which are about exactly that. How long can we do what we're doing to the level that we want to do it in a real life way? But capability without meaning becomes another form of anxiety. Adam pushes back on that gently but firmly. We'll get into that with Adam right after a brief word from our sponsors. Every movement we make starts with energy, and that energy starts inside our cells. As we age, our mitochondria, the little engines that power us, can become less efficient. That affects strength, recovery, resilience, all the things we actually care about. Timeline developed MITAPUR with Urolithin A to support metophagy, the process that helps clear out damaged mitochondria so our cells can work better. I think of it as working closer to the source. Timeline's clinically proven formula is now available at a new, lower price. MITAPU now starts at $79 when you go to Timeline.com slash agist. That's Timeline.com slash agist. This season I've been paying more attention to the energy curve. Coffee can be useful, but too much of it and I end up wired than flat. Alement Lemonade Iced tea has been a better afternoon move. It uses full black tea extract with electrolytes, so the caffeine feels steadier and there's no sugar, artificial colors, or dodgy ingredients. Sharp and clear is the goal, especially when it's hot out and hydration matters. Get a free eight-count sample pack of Element's most popular drink mix flavors with any purchase at drinkelement.com slash agist. Find your favorite flavor or share with a friend. That's D-R-I-N-K-L-M-N-T.com slash AGIST. Before we get to Adam, one quick favor. If you enjoy the AGIS podcast, please help us out. Take a moment to give us a five-star review. It helps more people find this show, and we would truly appreciate it. And since this episode is about resilience presence and what it means to live as a whole human, again, I want to mention Super Age Games, New York City, November 7th. It's the first ever scientifically validated longevity competition. And yes, it will be physical testing. But the larger idea is not just what we can perform, it's what kind of person we are becoming as we continue to train, adapt, and show up. And that is the real agist idea. Progression in building a stronger, more vibrant life from where we are now. You can learn more. Go to games.superage.com. Okay, let's get to Adam Smith. We'll give him a call right now. Adam, great to see you. Thank you for joining us today. Oh, it's my pleasure, Dave.
SPEAKER_01Glad to be here with you. Where are you today? I'm in Tucson, Arizona at Canyon Ranch, and it is a wonderful time of the year to be here as the summer is out and the fall is in. We had a little rain this week. Really lovely. Good air quality right now. Beautiful garden. I was walking through this morning, feeling blessed to be in such a serene space today.
SPEAKER_00I want to go a little bit to your background here. You're trained in clinical and spiritual care, is that right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So I have something called clinical pastoral education. CPE is what what it's better known by. Where I did some pretty intense training for probably about a year and a half if you add it up. And you know, most of it was in a level one trauma center. Pretty intense stuff responding to to traumas that were coming into trauma bay while also still taking care of different sections of the hospital and even the psych hospital.
SPEAKER_00And that's a lot of different kinds of people. So tell me a little bit of like what did you learn from that experience? Oh man.
SPEAKER_01You know, I learned how to shut up and be present. I learned uh about myself and became a lot more self-aware. We we would write up visits and then review them as a cohort. And, you know, questions were asked, a lot of self-discovery in that time. Really, really pretty uh intense time. I was having my first son too, you know. I think my first son had just been born. I was actually finishing up a writing like a a a master's thesis for my degree, too. So it was quite a year living in Greenville, South Carolina there and working in the in the level one trauma center. Wow. And did you study with Andy Weil? Is that written? Well, you know, I'm a big fan of of Andrew Weil, and I I have been for a long time. I've had the privilege to see him speak in person, and then I ran into him a a couple months ago at this Tucson Village farm. And we've, you know, we've crossed paths here and there and have have some people in common that we know. And so now I I just this week, just yesterday and and next week, I I'm teaching with at his school, you know, offering some a couple of presentations this week for medical students there on aging, changing, dying, and and then you know, another topic of uh spiritual wellness for physician well-being.
SPEAKER_00Let's get into that a little bit. Talk to me, what's that like for uh I mean physicians, they just seem like wow, they've got they they have a pretty rough time of it, a lot of them.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah, yeah, with our healthcare system and with the burnout that's real. We take care of a lot of people here at Canyon Ranch, too, a lot of medical people, a lot of doctors. So yeah, I've I've been it's been something on my heart for a long time after working in hospice for seven years and you know, doing some of the hospital work I've done, just wanting to take care of these medical people, you know, that are really around trauma a lot, around um death and dying or sickness a lot, and then a lot of uncertainty, you know, that that they go through. So I've been interviewing different physicians and and trying to explore with them what helps sustain them and and what spirituality they might be drawing upon or or could draw upon to help reduce burnout and and help provide meaning and purpose to their work.
SPEAKER_00You use the word uncertainty, and I think that, you know, in my lifetime anyway, there is more uncertainty in more domains than I can ever recall. And I think that as human beings, we're just sort of not wired for this much uncertainty. We need a certain amount of you know predictability. I'm gonna go out and get some berries. I know where the berry patch is. Okay. And that's not there today in so many ways. How do you help people with that?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so practicing living with uncertainty is just a very human thing we all have to make peace with. And you know, there's curiosity is one way that we help navigate uncertainty. Also the practice of mindfulness, I think, can be very helpful with just being with what is as it is. And then, you know, having a certain openness to to being pleasantly surprised too, you know. Uncertainty is a resting place. I really teach people to choose uncertainty over worry. It is an antidote for worry, is choosing uncertainty over worry because it's it's actually not a bad thing to not know if we can allow it. I use mantras sometimes, I don't know. Just practicing saying that, I don't know. It's actually self-compassionate to say, you know, I don't know, or I can't remember, or I'm not gonna figure it out right now. And there's a certain availability that that gives back to us when we can get down with that. That opens us up to be more present and to actually have a a resting place instead of scrambling or or trying to worry or remember things that we can't recall or to fix things that really we don't have access to. So yeah, those are some of the ways I I definitely work with people and with myself, you know. I've done I've done therapy myself for for some of this. I've done some exposure response prevention therapy that's been very helpful, you know, with sitting with some uncomfortable things and reducing my own obsessions and compulsions. So it's something I I continue to navigate for myself and help, you know, support other people. Um, like you said, we're in so much uncertainty because of uh how pluralistic our lives are and how how much engagement we have with technology and and how many things we're juggling in our jobs. And physicians are are navigating a lot of things at once, you know, charting and colleague relationships and meetings and patient care and family dynamics and so yeah, plenty of of uncertainty. A lot of that's not new, some of it is, as we introduce AI and into helping, you know, develop care plans. And you know, we would think that that as we're introducing more, there would be less uncertainty, but I don't think that's the case, you know, because a lot of times we're having to still review is that exactly what I was going for. AI put this together, is is that actually fitting the situation, you know? So so the uncertainty is not going away even as the technology improves, and maybe it's maybe it's becoming more rampant.
SPEAKER_00I want to take it out of the medical practitioner realm, and just in general, it's interesting how you have split worry and uncertainty. If someone is in a state of worry or anxiety because of uncertainty, how do you approach that?
SPEAKER_01Because of uncertainty. Yeah, that's an interesting way to put it. Yeah. Yeah. Because someone else could see it, you know, completely different and you know, have an uncertain situation that they're not worrying about. So, you know, a lot of the spiritual wellness is about going inside and seeing what is it about for me that that makes me feel uncomfortable, this uncertain situation. What is it about for me? What attachment, addiction, or illusion is going on for me that's causing some obstruction to my spiritual wellness, to my enjoyment of life, to my connection to life, because someone else could face this uncertainty and not have this attachment addiction and illusion, or you know, that's that's driving this anxiety or worry with the uncertainty.
SPEAKER_00You use the word spirituality. How do you define day-to-day spirituality?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Personally, spirituality to me is your enjoyment of life, your connection to a life, your appreciation for life. You know, as as far as if we look, you know, at at textbooks and you know, we look a little deeper, we can see how spirituality is is defined differently by different people. And we have these wisdom traditions and faith traditions that overlap some with spirituality, while at the same time, many people today define themselves as spiritual but not religious.
SPEAKER_00I want to jump a little bit to flow state. Okay. Yeah. Which is yeah, completely unrelated to this.
SPEAKER_02Well, you it's actually not as unrelated as you might think. Okay, let's go there.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, navigating uncertainty, that is a skill that can help a flow state big time. If you can't navigate uncertainty, how are you gonna be in a flow state? Because flow state is about adaptability. It's flow, you know, it's about adjusting and adapting. And if you cannot navigate uncertainty, how are you gonna be in a flow state?
SPEAKER_00Okay, so I hadn't thought of it that way. Someone comes to you and they want to increase the amount of time they spend in flow state. So I'm guessing this could be an athlete, this could be a performer of some kind, or just, you know, a regular person who wants to rake the leaves in flow state, or you know, it's a wonderful thing, right? Before we go into that, how do you define flow state?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Flow state is when there's a high challenge of some sort, and you're responding skillfully to that challenge. And a lot of those responses are to me are spiritual practices. So flow state is when there is a sense of of oneness, connection, and trust with what's happening. It's a complete adaptability, it's an absolute cooperation with the inevitable, to put it in the words of. Anthony DeMello. That's how he defines enlightenment. But I would say the same thing about flow state is an absolute cooperation with the inevitable.
SPEAKER_00Okay. We gotta get into this a little more. Cooperation with the inevitable. But you said earlier that this was a high demand, high skill situation, and the one feels a sense of I guess mastery in it. So connect those two things for me.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So skill, when we're looking at you know, an athlete that's playing tennis, what gets them in a flow state is not how good they are at tennis, as far as how many you know tournaments they're gonna win. Not necessarily, you know, a beginner tennis player could be in a flow state, and some professional tennis player could not be in a flow state. So that's not the kind of skill we're talking about. When I say skill, what I mean is adaptability. What I mean is your response, your inner response to whatever challenge you're facing. So that's a different kind of skill. That's a personal skill, you know, that's a spiritual skill. You use the word inevitable. Yeah. Bring that in. What what what did you mean by that? Is inevitable is is what's happening right now. If it's happening, it's inevitable. And many things in this life are going to happen, and you know, we're going to run into uncertainty. We're going to face sickness and death and dying, and we're going to face relationship challenges, and we're going to face difficult emotions like anger and fear and sadness. And we're going to face a situation we've never been in, that we've never practiced before. And so all of those things are inevitable.
SPEAKER_00Okay. So the outcome can be uncertain while also being inevitable. Is that right? Uncertainty is inevitable.
SPEAKER_01Isn't it? Is it not? Isn't life ultimately uncertain? You know, it's it's inevitable that you're not going to know something, you know?
SPEAKER_00Let's pause here for a moment. Adam is getting at something I think many of us feel, but do not always name. We are surrounded by more information than ever. And it's a question of discerning what's right and what's wrong, what's true and what's not. But it is because of that, it has not necessarily made us more grounded. We'll be right back after that. Most of us think about muscle health in terms of lifting weights and consuming protein, but there is a deeper layer underneath all of it, and that is cellular energy. Your muscle cells are packed with mitochondria because muscle takes a lot of energy to do its job. As we age, mitochondrial function naturally declines, and that can show up as lower energy, less strength, slower recovery, and a little less bounce back than we used to have. Timeline has spent more than 15 years researching mitochondrial health and developed mitopure, which contains urolithin A. Urolithin A supports metophagy, the body's process for clearing out damaged mitochondria and recycling cellular components. In one study, participants saw a 12% improvement in muscle strength in four months with no change in exercise. That gets my attention. For me, healthy aging means protecting capacity, the ability to move, train, recover, and keep showing up for the life I want. Supporting the cellular machinery underneath strength and energy feels like a very smart place to start. Timeline's clinically proven formula is now available at a new lower price. Midopure now starts at $79 when you go to Timeline.com slash agist. Hook into this idea of meditation and movement as meditation. So some people think of meditation you must be physically still focusing your breath or or something else. Talk to me about movement as meditation.
SPEAKER_01You can move when you meditate, and meditation is more about a stillness within than it is a stillness on the outside. And so the stillness within is the practice of awareness, of observation, sensation, visualization. And we can bring this energy into our daily practices of walking, of eating, of athletics, of dance. Many contemplative traditions have yoga, tai chi, chigong in them. And so the opportunity to move when we meditate is wonderful, especially for those of us that maybe are challenged by sitting literally still. Because, you know, some of my colleagues and I would agree that there's a certain freeze response that that trauma can give us. And sometimes, you know, as we go through adversities and traumas, we might not need to sit still. We might need to actually move some to help us meditate. And so I'm a huge fan of walking meditation. Walking meditation saved my life when I was in my early twenties. I was going through an existential crisis at the time, and it really got me grounded. It it gave me my sanity and my soul back. And I practiced walking around the desert, looking at desert plants. Slowly I had a daily practice, and and it it gave me a chance to really feel connected to my own body and to my environment in an honest way. It it helped break this addiction to thinking. And is this what people mean by mindfulness? Absolutely. Yeah. You know, really the the mindfulness is the observation and sensation. And so when there is an awareness, a presence, this mindfulness is is a way of being, and it challenges that addiction to thinking. And it allows us to enter into some uncertainty in a way that is that that can be peaceful.
SPEAKER_00Addiction to thinking. That's so interesting. I didn't know I had an addiction to thinking. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Many of us do, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. A lot of teachers talk about that addiction to thinking. You know, we sort of live in this attention/slash addiction economy. You know, it's all uh I don't really like watching television because it hijacks my consciousness and it makes me very uncomfortable. And things like TikTok, I just I mean, like in 10 seconds of that, and it's like, oh my God, turn that off. I don't like them because I they keep me from what I think well, thinking, right? Right. I'm thinking now. So, and that I'm wondering if television might be good for me because it breaks my addiction to thinking. Really? Think about this for a bit, Adam. I don't know.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, there's a certain self-absorption that the television could be challenging for you, you know, that you're preoccupying yourself and the television is wanting to occupy that space. And so there's a certain letting go for you to enjoy television. To to to be an observer. I felt that before too, you know, even yeah, you know, with my kids, you know, wanting to watch something and being like, well, gosh, I've got to let go of all this if I'm gonna even watch something with them.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01To let something else in. And some sometimes it's just too much, depending on the head space. But part of it could be that, you know, I'm in my my own head and I'm pre-occupying that space. So there's no room to watch television. There's no way to enjoy anything outside of me because I'm I have this head living going on all the time.
SPEAKER_02Wow.
SPEAKER_00I'm too self-centered to enjoy television.
SPEAKER_01I gotta think about Yeah, but but people use it the opposite too, Dave, you know, so don't think, you know, one thing works for all. That could be a practice for you, but but I mean, many people are numbing out, zoning out, you know, checking out, watching television in a way too, and and they don't know how to be with themselves. And so now they've just plugged in this this noise, and it's continuing to play the soundtrack that's taking up this space inside of them because they don't know how to utilize that that spaciousness within them for connection to life, you know, outside of something like media that can be addicting as well. It can be so stimulating.
SPEAKER_00I think we're going to meet in real life in in Canyon Ranch, I think, in in the middle of November, right, for longevity eight, and I'm excited to be there for that. I mean, there's a lot of medical involved in that and physical, physiological things. What's your role in the Longevity 8 program?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so longevity 8 consists of these eight perspectives, you know, that these eight fields of expertise expertise and spiritual wellness is one of the eight. So we contribute to this longevity eight model. And many people come to us in longevity eight and haven't really sat with some of the deeper questions, you know, that it can go a little deeper for people that have maybe just focused only on the physical health or the fact that they want to live a long time or want to live and be healthy. But we be we want to sit with you and say, well, well, what's that for? You know, what's that about for you that you want to live a long life? Are you enjoying your life that much now that you want to continue it so long? And what is it about for you that you want to be healthy? Like, how do you utilize that health and what matters to you and what means something to you? So we have some ways of engaging people on a deeper level, and then also see how their spirituality might be reflecting the relationship basically between their spirituality and their health, which we have a lot more science on than we've than we've had before. So it's interesting. It's still limited, it's still a big mystery, and it's very personalized. That's why we have to have these personalized services because what works for you is not going to work for someone, just like we talked about the TV, you know. So we have to get personal and look at the situation to see what's actually going on between someone's spirituality and their health.
SPEAKER_00Absolutely. I'm curious that, you know, we're in sort of a funny time. I was born a long time ago, and I remember my parents were churchgoers, and pretty much everybody in my name, like everybody was, right? It's just like what you did on a Sunday. And then that sort of decreased, and you know, it was sort of that kind of organized religion was sort of frowned upon by certain people, and I don't know about that thing. And but now we're seeing increasingly people returning to faith-based practices. Why now?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well, you you said it correctly, faith-based practices, because I'm seeing some people return to their religion or or to a religion, but I am seeing overall people interested in practices, spiritual practices. So uh some people that means a community and uh, you know, a spiritual community, and and for others that might be more practice-oriented.
SPEAKER_00And I feel like the upswing, I'm I'm seeing this immense I mean, it comes out of COVID or I don't know, too much time what social media, but I I I mean everything from the main religions to things like run clubs. Like it's and I don't mean to dismiss religions by comparing them to run clubs, but they're they're gatherings of people. And but why do you think this is happening now?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, pe I think people are suffering. I think there's a lot of suffering out there. And what I mean by that, there's a lot of disconnection people feel, a lot of anxiety people feel, restlessness, pain, and uncertainty as we talked about. And so I think some of this is you know, you know, once people once people hit a wall, once people have a loss, once people uh feel anxiety or burnout or overwhelm, they start asking some questions and they start getting a little bit more interested in what I have to say. Or or other, you know, aspects of spirituality too. Because uh people uh people start seeing, wow, what's worked before is not working anymore. I can't wait to hang out.
SPEAKER_00I'm fair really about this. Me too. So I'm just gonna say, like, I'm I'm you know, this is New York City out here, what one would call sort of type A plus to be, you know, tripping about things. And so I I come to you at longevity eight and I say, okay, uh the biomarkers are okay, my my movement is could be a little better, and you know, maybe I can improve my diet, but my connection to so I'm gonna call this connection to spirit. My connection to spirit can be could be better. I think my life would improve if I had that, but I don't really know what to do. What what would you say to me?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Well, I'll give you this these three steps. I think I mentioned this teacher's name earlier, Anthony DeMello. I'll give you these three steps of him and I'll kind of paraphrase some of it. But he says, step one is admitting that your life is in a mess. In some way, you know, there's some mess there. You know, there's there's some suffering, there's some disconnection. And so step one, admitting that your life is in a mess. And sometimes that takes a minute for people, you know, if they're not ready to come in and be honest, then you know, the work is not gonna be helpful. So if you can come in and be vulnerable, admit where you are, admit what you're feeling, then we can continue. So step two, he says, is he says it admitting that you don't want to get out of the mess. And I think that he's being a little bit funny in that, but you know, you know, he says, suppose you could be blissfully happy, but you might not get that house that you dreamed of. Um, suppose you could be blissfully happy, but you might be seen a little bit more like a failure in the eyes of other people. Are you ready to bargain some success for happiness? You know, and and you know, are you ready to bargain something for spiritual wellness? You know, for that spirit connection? You know, are do you are you and the way I say it is, you know, do you want a spectacular life or a nourishing life? You know, are you still chasing the spectacular? Or are you ready for a more nourishing life, a more contemplative life? Sometimes yes, sometimes no, and some of us are conflicted, you know.
SPEAKER_02So there is a step three. It's gonna be a tough subject for you. You gotta good, good. I I want you. That's that's why I want I want you to come and push all my buttons too. Come on.
SPEAKER_00I'm thinking, to me, a spectacular life. I'm not an extrinsically motivated person. So my I was talking to my wife the other day, and she's like, what are your goals going forward? And there they're all intrinsic, like, you know, I've I've had fancy cars, they haven't done anything for me. They're just like, okay, that's nice. Check that off. All right, like fine. Or, you know, you have these things, but I mean, to me to have a spectacular life, the word that I use to Adam is aliveness. I want maximum aliveness. This is my motivating goal. And I and to do that, and I might be wrong here, I'm looking for some pushback. So um, I I first I need to be conscious because you know, you can be a spider and be very energetic in doing things, but you're not really conscious. But you also need energy and you need to take, or at least I do, I need to take action and I need a certain amount of struggle. Like there needs to be something where I'm feeling like I have a sense of agency, but it I I need to be like aware. And to me, if I can do that, then I'm pretty happy. I'm I'm fine. I long time ago, I gave up being right for being happy. I'll take happy all the time. This character like me shows up in your office and it's like, Adam, make me let's let's do better. How can I be better?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Well, it's a both and, and in spiritual wellness, we run into paradox a lot. I think it's I think it's part of deepening our spirituality. Is this true and this is true too? So so yeah, being alive and using your agency, absolutely, that's part of purpose. And otherwise you're a victim, you know, and that's not that's not cultivating purpose, that's defeating your purpose. So having agency, having things you want to move towards, work towards, some things that are true for you, wonderful. And at the same time, so what if you have these goals and we want to work towards this or that, and you're not enjoying it? You're not present, like like we said, you know. And so cultivating this presence is a huge part of purpose and enjoyment of the journey, as they say, instead of just the destination. So finding a way of peace. The you know, Tiknahan, the Buddhist monk, says there is no way to peace, peace is the way. So you have to have a way of peace instead of thinking, okay, when I accomplish that, then I'll be at peace. It's like, no, let me make peace right now, even when it's mess and all, and let me travel and let me move through this life with a way of peace. So both presence and having goals, having agency, you know, both of these things are important.
SPEAKER_00So a lot of both and I want to step to this goal thing, but this is something that I've been pondering lately. And to me, the the important goals are process goals, and it's not so much I almost I was thinking about this the other day. Um I I have a huge to-do list written on a pad over here. And I think I intentionally never finish the to-do list because I have some inner fear that if I finish the to-do list, I am useless and I will have no meaning tomorrow. So that's ridiculous, right? But I always leave a couple things on there. So it's like, okay, tomorrow I'm still useful because there's nothing for me to do. My wife laughed at me about this. But what you were saying is you're not going towards peace. Peace is the way, it's the process goal. And I think like, how can I become the best version of me, which is an endless, like the horizon just continues to expand. It doesn't matter, like every day I can continue to toilet this until the day I'm dead. And so that is a process goal versus a, you know, like in my business world, there's, you know, I got KPIs and that sort of stuff.
SPEAKER_02But is that any sense?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely. And and part of that is enjoying the enjoying the way. Sometimes it's developing grit because the process can be tough to. So when you look at and when you make that list every day, Dave, take a look at that list and make sure that you believe you could be happy doing anything on that list. Even some of the stuff that feels difficult. Say, say to yourself, I could be happy doing that part of the process. And see what see what's inside of you that says different, you know. What attachment, addiction, illusion is there think making me think that I can't be happy doing the dishes. You know, it makes me think that I can't be happy, you know, driving to the appointment. I can only be happy at the appointment. And that's going to keep you process-oriented. And sometimes it's about developing grit too, which is something that I teach a lot. I teach a class called Grind, Grit, and Grace. And the grit is, you know, psychology defines it as passion and perseverance for long-term goals, but that passion and perseverance is very process-oriented. And so doing hard things that are good for you, you know, what or what am I avoiding that's that's actually helping me grow or is good for me.
SPEAKER_00We're gonna take one more short break. When we come back, Adam and I get into goals, grit, peace, and whether the life we are building is actually nourishing us. I used to think the afternoon fade was a caffeine problem. Have another coffee, push through, keep going. But caffeine mostly mutes the signal that tells you you're tired. The fatigue is still there, building underneath, and when it wears off, you feel the drop. What I like about Element Lemonade Iced tea is that it takes a different approach. It uses a full black tea extract. So the caffeine comes with L theanine and polyphenols, the way it exists in the plant. Then it adds a meaningful dose of electrolytes, sodium, potassium, and magnesium, the same foundation as Elements Core Hydration Mix. For me, that makes sense in the summer. Heat. Training, travel, long work days, all of that asks more from the system. I reach for lemonade iced tea when I want something that feels clean, steady, and actually refreshing, with no sugar, artificial colors, or strange ingredients. Get a free eight-count sample pack of Element's most popular drink mix flavors with any purchase at drinkelement.com slash AGIST. Find your favorite flavor or share with a friend. Once again, that's D-R-I-N-K-L-M-N-T.com slash AGIS. I read something the other day about people who are like I know a lot of athletes. So the the really great ones when something happens. So I'm a ski racer, I'm not very good at it, but it's sort of like something I know about. And so you can be going down a course and you miss a gate or you fall. You have reaction options here, right? So you can say, oh crap, and stomp your feet or feel shame when the coach says, why did you do that? Or you have another you have another option, which is that was so interesting. Wow. That's amazing. So how can I like how can I learn from that? And it's sort of that that difference between this thing happened for my benefit and how can I, you know, improve from that, or you know, go into some you know, self-esteem spiral, right? Which I I have to admit, I guess I'm not one of the champion athletes. So I go into the shelf self-esteem spiral, like, oh my god, I'm just like I failed.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. You know, I don't know, but I would think many of us, you know, maybe most of us go through that. And and I think it's how we navigate that aspect too, is is, you know, our own story of shame that might arise as we fail or as we need improvement with something. Self-compassion eliminates shame, you know, as we bring in that energy of meeting ourselves where we are, as we let go of some of the ego part of us that needs to know, that needs to be right, that needs to look good, that needs to win. And we soften some of that, then it does allow us to be open to the feedback in a way that it doesn't define who we are or our happiness. And we can actually have more energy to be receptive and less defensive about it and be able to sit with it and be curious about it. Like you said, that's interesting. So how we navigate that shame that that's like it's one of the inevitables. It really is. I mean, it's it's part, it's gonna show up based on our on our ancestry, you know, the way that we've developed. And so how how we navigate that is is part of the practice. Self-compassion is is key to that, you know, being able to meet ourselves where we are and have some humility that we that we don't have, you know, what is it about that I think I'm supposed to have it all together or not supposed to learn or you know fail or yeah. That that's kind of quite egoic of me to think I'm supposed to be that person. Like, you know, it's it's inevitable.
SPEAKER_00And where to get. Yeah. Tell me that you know, you're dealing with people that are a little older, so I'm 66. What does a good life mean at this life stage?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I'm supporting you know, people of many different ages at Canyon Ranch for sure. And there's a group of people that are entering into the second half of life. And there's some different reflections on this by by different writers. But I, you know, I would say for many people the second half of life is is going to demand that you become a more spiritual person. And and then you know people might not use that language, but what it's gonna mean is that you're gonna have to look at life a little differently. Um, because at this point you've you've had some failures, you've probably had some losses, you've probably had some major losses, or you're anticipating some major losses. So what's worked in this first half of life without having such tribulations is is not gonna work for the second half of life, for your wellness, for your inner wellness. And so that's where we're we're looking at choosing uncertainty over worry. Some other teachers have some other phrases like that too, like choosing enjoyment over possession or connection over control. And it's a different shift, you know, it's something that that we're leaning into. Paul Weinfield has this really lovely writing too about letting the hero die. And he says, you know, in the real hero's journey, the dragon slays you, you know. Much to your surprise, you couldn't make that marriage work, or much to your surprise, you know, when this or that happened, he says, if you are foolish, then then you will abort the journey and start another and another abusing your heart over and over for the brief illusion of winning. But then he says, if you are wise, then then you will let yourself be humbled. You know, you will return to the village humbled. And with a new sense that you don't have to identify with this part of you that needs to know, that needs to win, that needs to look good, that needs to be right. And he says that's where your transcendent life begins. So you know, so that that's yeah, a lot of times we're working with with people, you know, a lot of women too, in different phases of menopause or or people losing their parents, you know, that maybe they've been close to for a long time. But some kind of life situation is is bound to hit by the by the time you're in your 60s. Something, some s very significant losses or changes, defeats, you know, have probably hit.
SPEAKER_00Sometimes the dragon wins.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And that and that's that's what points us to a true hero's journey that's about faithfulness over success.
SPEAKER_00As we wrap up here, is there anything you want to leave my people with?
SPEAKER_01I'll leave you with one more thing, you know. Yeah. Uh maybe your people will benefit. With your to-do list, you know, I would also consider putting some unimportant things on the to-do list, too. I'll I love a saying by this Indian spiritual teacher, Sadhguru. He says it's very important that you do unimportant things. Otherwise, you can get dead serious, he says, you know. So, you know, that's something you might, you know, consider, you know, when you're looking at your list too. How you know, how serious am I getting, and how like overfocused and and controlling am I? And what might I open myself up to that's that's nourishing, playful, fun, and that might help me laugh a little if you know, because if we're not laughing and we're not crying, then we're in trouble. One of my teachers in that CPE training I did said once, that's always stuck with me. So finding some ways to be easy too, and and to to not be so rigid, I think is wonderful to consider too.
SPEAKER_00Wonderful advice. Adam, I I look forward to seeing you in Tucson and the 10 Grange Longevity A program. I think that's gonna be I'm so hyped to go there.
SPEAKER_01We're excited to have you, you know. I yeah, you'll be coming at a wonderful time of the year. Any time of the year is good to come, but but I think, you know, right now we're entering into that that that good weather that I love here for mountain biking and hiking and stuff like that. So I look forward to it, Dave. You let me know. I feel free to reach out, let me know how I can what I can do to to welcome you.
SPEAKER_00Thank you. Looking forward to it, Adam. We'll see you then. Take care.
SPEAKER_03Sounds good. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00That was Adam Smith, a unique human being. I'll be back seeing him, middle of August, longevity aid at Canyon Ranch. Please join me if you can. It is a truly a life-changing experience, longevity aid at Canyon Ranch. And I I don't say that lightly. I love the lesson that resilience goes way deeper than simply the ability to push through. I know that version so well, most of us do. Keep going, make the list, train harder, solve that problem, get the metric moving in the right direction. Okay, so there's value to that, obviously. But Adam is pointing to another layer. Can we stay open when we do not know what is going to happen? Can we live with uncertainty? Can we keep our ambition without becoming hostage to it? Can we make failure without turning it into a verdict on who we are? And what exactly is failure other than learning? Can we build a life that is not only impressive from the outside, but also nourishing from the inside? I've always liked the idea of becoming the best version of myself. This is actually my life's goal. But this conversation reminds me that the best version eclipses just metrics and goals. If I can be more present, more useful, more available, and probably with me a little less rigid, things are surely headed in the right direction. Adam's point is I hear it is that a whole life requires a whole person. Get that right, people. It's not just about your biomarkers, it's not about some, you know, the longevity Olympics board that they put up. That seems a little goofy. It's about we're we're very complex beings. We're we have a body, we have a mind, we have spirit, we need connection, we need purpose. If you leave one of those out, something starts to feel thin, and you know, it's not going to go as well. So maybe the change for me is this. This is what I'm thinking. Keep the goals, keep the training, keep the metrics, but make a little more room for maybe the unimportant things, or maybe the most important things. The walk in the morning, the laugh, the pause, the joy of being a human, the thing that does not move the KPIs, but makes the day more human-centric. That's my thought for you. It's a wild world out there. Change is just swirling around us. We're living in this like ever-changing liminal moment, this boundary land between what was and what will be. And I can only imagine it's going to get more confusing and more difficult as we get through this until we get to whatever the next phase is. So, anyway, thank you, Adam, for your advice. We need people like you in our world. That's it for this week. Everyone, stay strong, stay vibrant. We'll see you next time. Take care.