AGEIST
The AGEIST podcast is where we rewrite life after 50. Hosted by David Stewart, founder of AGEIST and Super Age, we talk with extraordinary people—scientists, creatives, and thinkers—about living vibrantly in your 50s, 60s, 70s and beyond. From longevity science to emotional well-being, fitness to purpose, we explore the tools and mindsets that help us stay curious, energized, and deeply engaged with life. This isn’t about aging gracefully—it’s about living boldly.
AGEIST
Sheri Radel Rosenberg: A Midlife Trap Exposed
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Is it possible that "midlife reinvention" is another way of telling people over 50 that they are failing? In this episode, AGEIST culture writer Sheri Radel Rosenberg joins David Stewart for a clear-eyed conversation about the pressure to find a new identity and turn aging into a public performance. Together they examine the difference between evolution and escape, from Instagram’s endless offers of transformation to menopause marketing, gray hair, empty nests, aging style, and the agency that accompanies self-knowledge. Rosenberg makes the case for looking back at the person you were before the world started editing you, then expanding upon the skills, taste, humor, and hard-earned clarity already in place.
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Key Moments
“I think it's a story that we're being sold as some sort of liberation from the life you currently have.”
“Reinvention can feel performative because it's photogenic... It's something that you can make a reel with and say, 'Look at my reinvention journey'.”
“I really think you know who you are and you don't have to go and and start everything all over.”
Connect with Sheri Radel Rosenberg
Sheri's Essay: The Midlife Reinvention Trap
Connect with AGEIST
Read the full interview transcript.
Tell me about the midlife reinvention trap. What is this?
SPEAKER_00I mean, it I think it's a story that we're being sold as some sort of liberation from the life you currently have.
SPEAKER_03Because the message is you're not good enough the way you are.
SPEAKER_00Correct. Yes. So maybe it's more like midlife not requiring a reinvention. It's about more maybe like becoming fully who you are and recognizing who you are, and maybe who you've always been, but didn't take the time to look.
SPEAKER_03Welcome to the Aegis Podcast, episode 292. I'm David Stewart. This week, my guest is Sherry Rattle-Rosenberg. Sherry writes for us at Aegis, and she recently wrote a terrific essay called The Midlife Reinvention Trap. The idea is simple and also a little uncomfortable. What if all this talk about reinvention is really just another way of telling us we're not good enough? Move to Lizon, blow up that marriage, find the real you at a wellness retreat, buy the skincare, change your hair, get a car. Become the version of yourself the algorithm has decided you should be. When we zoom out and look at all this together, it starts to feel just a little bit manipulative. We'll give Sherry a call after a quick word from our sponsors. I know it's a bit of a buzzword right now, but the science shows that protein matters more as we age. That's where true nutrition comes in. Strength, recovery, body composition, all of it depends on getting enough of the right protein. What I like about the protein I get from true nutrition is the amount of control I have over the ingredients. I get to build my own protein powder, and the tool lets me decide exactly what goes into it calories, protein, fat, carbs, fiber, sugar, the whole thing. My current favorite mix is pea protein with marine collagen, cacao flavor for that dark chocolate creaminess, plus lion's mane, cordyceps, and supergreens. It tastes good, no chalky aftertaste, and it feels like something designed for me rather than some generic tub of powder. Wanna try it? Go to TrueNutrition.com slash AGIST and use code AGIST for 20% off your first custom protein blend. That's true nutrition.com slash AGIST, code AGIST. Go build your own mix. Once you've had a protein you actually look forward to, you won't go back. Every movement we make starts with energy, and that energy starts inside our cells. As we age, our mitochondria, the little engines that power us, can become less efficient. That affects strength, recovery, resilience, all the things we actually care about. Timeline developed Mitapure with Urolithin A to support metophagy, the process that helps clear out damaged mitochondria so our cells can work better. I think of it as working closer to the source. Timeline's clinically proven formula is now available at a new, lower price. MitaPure now starts at $79 when you go to Timeline.com slash AGIST. That's Timeline.com slash AGIST. This season I've been paying more attention to the energy curve. Coffee can be useful, but too much of it and I end up wired than flat. Element Lemonade Iced Tea has been a better afternoon move. It uses full black tea extract with electrolytes, so the caffeine feels steadier and there's no sugar, artificial colors, or dodgy ingredients. Sharp and clear is the goal, especially when it's hot out and hydration matters. Get a free eight-count sample pack of Element's most popular drink mix flavors with any purchase at drinkelement.com slash aegis. Find your favorite flavor or share with a friend. That's D-R-I-N-K-L-M-N-T.com slash agist. Sharon and talk about aging, authenticity, menopause marketing, gray hair, and the relief of realizing that looking like yourself is still an option. This also connects beautifully to the Super Age games coming to New York City November 7th. The first ever longevity competition is not about pretending to be younger. No. Let's test what is possible now: capacity, strength, adaptability, vitality, all the things we build by evolving, not by throwing ourselves away. You can learn more at games.superage.com. Before we get started with Sherry, I want to give a huge thank you to everyone who has left a comment or a review on our show. I love hearing from you guys, every single one of you, answering your questions and learning more about how we can make the Ages podcast even better. And now, let's give Sherry Rattle-Rosenberg a call. Hey Sherry, how are you today?
SPEAKER_00I'm so good. How are you? I'm all right. I understand you're at the beach. Where are you? I am down at the Jersey Shore, close to my hometown of Philadelphia, where I watch the Knicks go to victory with all my New York friends, but here in in New Jersey.
SPEAKER_03So is the Jersey Shore really like the show, The Jersey Shore?
SPEAKER_00Part this is not that part of the Jersey Shore. I think it's this is the more what I call the Philadelphia Shore, which is where Philadelphia people go to the shore. Sort of the Atlantic City Cape May area. Cape May is beautiful. It's very, very nice.
SPEAKER_03So I wanted to have you on. You write a lot for Aegis, and you wrote this fabulous essay called The Midlife Reinvention Trap. Tell me. Let's for people who haven't read that, tell me about the midlife reinvention trap. What is this?
SPEAKER_00I mean, it I think it's a story that we're being sold as some sort of liberation from the life you currently have. You might move to Lisbon, you blow up the marriage, you find the real you at a wellness retreat. And all of that's well and good, but to me it's kind of like self-improvement with a better publicist, right? I think is what I said in the piece. The piece is really about evolution versus a complete overhaul and how you don't have to completely reinvent or blow up your life. Sometimes you do, of course. And I applaud people that do that because a situation is dire or negative or toxic. But I think a lot of us, and speaking as a woman over 50, I think that's just a bill of goods that we've been sold that we have to reinvent ourselves. And that might not necessarily be the case.
SPEAKER_03Because the message is you're not good enough the way you are.
SPEAKER_00Correct. Yes. So maybe it's more like midlife not requiring a reinvention. It's about more maybe like becoming fully who you are and recognizing who you are and maybe who you've always been, but didn't take the time to look.
SPEAKER_03That's that's really good. What I read here is that there's this the amount of like reinvention workshops, retreats, like whatever that come across my desk. It's and I the first couple is like, oh, that's a good idea.
SPEAKER_02And then I was like, really?
SPEAKER_03What do you actually like the amount of people that actually reinvent themselves I think is very small, at least from like I can't even think of anyone. It's generally this sort of like educational moment of like, well, oh, this is maybe I'm gonna move a little bit to the side here, give me a little bit of an adjustment, or this is fundamentally the person I've always been, and now I'm just sort of like become aware of this, and so now I'm I'm gonna align a little more with that. But reinvention, I just I feel like there's something it's like what is it like Christ comes back from the what is the resurrection?
SPEAKER_00I think too, like as a creative being myself, you know, I always remember this. Now we're getting a little too philosophical here, but I always remember this poem by Wordsworth that said, The child is the father of man. It's a very famous poem. If you've taken any English lit in college, you've read it. Um but it's really about going back to who you were as a kid, because I think when I was a child, I was a purely creative soul, very unfiltered. I wrote, I drew, I do all these, did all these things before the sort of world got at me and said, like, how will you make a living doing that? And what are you thinking? So I think it's also going back to a time in your life when you felt really free, you know, before marriage, before kids, before all those things, and like, who were you? And for me, that was very powerful, like connecting, I don't want to say inner child, but going back and saying, like, this is who I've always been. And I'm somebody who my husband calls me Lucy because I'm always coming up with schemes, you know, to little harebrained schemes of how to advance myself and do all these things. I remember when I decided to stop being a producer in advertising, I started to try and come up with all these elaborate things. I'm like, no, you're a writer. That's that's what you're doing. Like, that's what you need to do. And it was right there in front of me all the time. And I just didn't acknowledge it when I was younger. I took a different little detour, but I came back to it. So that's my personal experience with that.
SPEAKER_03So how do you distinguish the difference between this like desire to change, to become more the person you were born to be versus you're just um uncomfortable, bored, scared, like something like that?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think you have to, you know, I wrote something on on my own a few weeks back about mastery or last week about mastery and how at this point in life we've mastered some things. And those are good things that you can take with you wherever you're going. You know, I think when you turn 30, it seems very young now, but you know, you're you're carrying with you a lot of things, maybe some baggage, maybe some stuff that you can kick to the curb. But I think when you hit 50-ish, you're kind of like, oh, I've learned some really valuable things all the way. I don't need to throw everything away. I just need to take what I've learned so I can now move forward. That's kind of the way I look at it.
SPEAKER_03It's there's a certain fantasy element to this whole reinvention thing, right? It's it it it's sort of like it's like the bigger, more advanced version of the vacation that's gonna change your life, right? But I I don't know if it's more of a is it more of a female thing than a male thing? I'm not sure.
SPEAKER_00You know, I was thinking about that. And I think, you know, as somebody who's on Instagram and all the things, we're constantly linking served things that are gonna change our lives as women, you know, the skincare that will change your life, the haircut, the bathing suit, whatever it is, you know? But when I look at women and men who are their most powerful at this stage in life, they're people, let's say like a Jamie Lee Curtis, right? I mean, she's the best version of herself she's ever been, and she didn't throw everything away. She actually is like, I'm gonna let my hair go gray, and I'm gonna look my age, and that's who I want to be. Diane Keaton, God bless her, you know, R.I.P. But she's somebody that kind of stuck to a playbook and became iconic for it throughout her life, the way she dressed. I mean, she marched her own beat. Kianu, I know we wrote about Keanu many moons ago, you and I, and he's somebody to me, like the culture kind of had a catch up to him, right? Like he's always been kind and sort of a little off-kilter and like just a really genuine human being. I think it's about authenticity too. To me, reinvention is like, you know, you're kind of throwing away the maybe you're gonna be careful not to throw away those parts that make you the most you.
SPEAKER_03We're gonna pause here for a brief word from our sponsors. When we come back, Sherry and I talk about the differences between reinvention and evolution, and why much of midlife may be about returning to the things we always knew about ourselves. Isn't that a relief? Protein is one of those key foundational elements that sounds simple until you actually try to get it right. With True Nutrition, I found a customized solution that supports my strength, recovery, and capabilities. Most protein powders are made as though everyone has the same body, the same goals, the same digestion, and the same taste buds. True Nutrition is different because they let you build the mix yourself. That is what really impressed me. The customization is actually really fun, at least for me. You can control the protein source, flavor, sweetener, boosts, and even the nutrition profile. How many calories, how much protein, fat, carbs, fiber, and sugar you want in the mix. My favorite so far is pea protein with marine collagen, cacao flavor for that dark chocolate creaminess, and then lion's mane, cordyceps, and supergreen boosts. It feels like a smart, practical formula built around what I actually want. To build your mix, you pick a base from more than 20 options, including whey, plant, and dairy-free. Next you choose your flavor, your sweetener, and the flavor intensity. Then you add boosts like collagen, fiber, probiotics, aminos, colostrum, you name it. Once you have the mix right, you save it and refill the same formula every time, or play around with different combos. This is a high quality product. That means non-GMO. No fillers, no additives, no gluten, third-party tested, and first party verified. For me, the big thing is that I actually look forward to my daily protein shake now. No chalky aftertaste, no weird heaviness, and no compromise on what I'm putting in my body. Go to true nutrition.com slash agist and use code AGIST to save 20% off your first custom protein blend. That's true nutrition.com slash aegist code AGIS. Most of us think about muscle health in terms of lifting weights and consuming protein, but there is a deeper layer underneath all of it, and that is cellular energy. Your muscle cells are packed with mitochondria because muscle takes a lot of energy to do its job. As we age, mitochondrial function naturally declines, and that can show up as lower energy, less strength, slower recovery, and a little less bounce back than we used to have. Timeline has spent more than 15 years researching mitochondrial health and developed mitopure, which contains urolithin A. Urolithin A supports metophagy, the body's process for clearing out damaged mitochondria and recycling cellular components. In one study, participants saw a 12% improvement in muscle strength in four months with no change in exercise. That gets my attention. For me, healthy aging means protecting capacity, the ability to move, train, recover, and keep showing up for the life I want. Supporting the cellular machinery underneath strength and energy feels like a very smart place to start. Timeline's clinically proven formula is now available at a new, lower price. Midopure now starts at $79 when you go to Timeline.com/slash ageist. It's sort of like this like advertising. As you were saying, like with with women, it's like the bathing suit that make it the skincare. Yeah. With with guys, it's like, oh, the Porsche.
SPEAKER_01Right?
SPEAKER_03This will you will become the person you were born to be if you drive this car. People will recognize you as this.
SPEAKER_00Yes, you can ride.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Yeah. But it's sort of also that I keep doing like cliched expressions, but I also love the whole like Ram Das, I guess it was like wherever you go, there you are. So it's like you could keep like doing these things, but you're still you, right? It doesn't matter. And why not just embrace, you know, those parts of yourself? I I there's so many good things that you've learned along the way. You don't need to just like completely dump everything that you are.
SPEAKER_03I don't think. Yeah. Your essay really brought to mind this like there's an industry out there that like serves this. I think they're all the I know a lot of people who are involved in this. They're all well-meaning. And yeah, uh, you know, I've participated in in some of these like retreats and stuff. And I I just gotta I gotta say, like at the end of the day, it's like it doesn't really move the needle.
SPEAKER_00No, not necessarily. I know it doesn't. And it's it's yeah, it is a lot of marketing, you know. It's like I I think that somebody's telling us that we constantly have to change who we are. And I think you start feeling that also, you know, as you get older, you're like also told, oh, I can't wear that anymore. I'm 50. I can't wear a midi skirt anymore, I can't have red hair anymore. I'm just making these things up, of course. But it's like, yeah, you can, you know, like there's no why do you have to completely change who you are? And as someone who's part of Gen X, I think we're such a youthful, youth-identifying generation, you know, like we're all still feeling young and people are living longer. So it's like, I think we're gonna stick to our the things that we love about ourselves more, I hope, as we get older and maybe redefine what aging looks like and longevity looks like and how you don't have to throw it all away.
SPEAKER_03I think it's a sort of a surfacing of people we really are. I had a, I don't know, it was like dinner party or something. It was this mental health professional, and she was, I'll never forget this. She said, every human being carries three fundamental delusions about themselves. And because they're fundamental and they're delusions, they're like it's really hard to like get out of that. And I I think that one of the things that helps with that is time, and you have people around you telling you. That was my like my brush of stories. I had like people around me telling me, like, well, actually, you do you do this thing really well. And I was like, no, no, no, no, no. And after 20 years of saying no, no, no, no, no, I finally, you know, had evidence. Yeah, okay, I can do this other thing.
SPEAKER_00I need to do this, yeah.
SPEAKER_03I just do this, right?
SPEAKER_00You bring up a good point. I mean, I feel like when you're younger, you're telling yourself, oh, I want the big corporate job, I want the corner off. None of these things are bad, by the way. I guess I'm just speaking from my own experience. And never feeling that that was a path that I really wanted and feeling bad about that. I'm like, what am I not ambitious? Like, what do I, you know, but I just didn't love that corporate kind of ascent, you know? So I think when you're older, you realize, okay, that was never for me. And now I'm really doing you kind of have no choice just to be yourself, I think. Or I don't. I feel like I just have to be yourself.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_03It's really uncomfortable not to be.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. With a healthy when you said delusion, I thought it was interesting. I spoke to my friend Christine about delusion and how the people I love the most in my life are people who are just slightly delusional, you know, that like, yeah, I can do that. Sure I can. What do you mean? Why can't I? Why can't I plan an event in two weeks that for thousands? You know, I just like there's a degree of delusion you have to have as a human being to keep you going, I suppose.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, well, I I I think that we're, you know, our decision-making process, we're we're prediction machines and we predict based on past evidence. And you know, the people that we view as delusional are they can sort of like leap beyond that and be like, okay, because I I I haven't done this or this hasn't happened before, I can that doesn't mean that I can't be this person or do this thing. And that's um, you know, you see people who really any anybody who's like starting a business or like anything like that, it's like you need that you you need to have that sort of like you need to be able to tell yourself that thing in the morning where you get up and it's like, oh well, geez, there's I gotta make payroll and there's no money in the bank, and how am I gonna do this? Well, I guess we'll just figure it out. You know, otherwise you're not getting out of bed. Right.
SPEAKER_00True. No, I I think that's a hundred percent true. That's that's what I'm embracing at this phase of my life, too. You know, it's like if if you what what if you could see it, you could be a yet another cliche. But I I think it's it's true. I mean, it's just living in a space that's slightly delusional, but based on based on what you know. I mean, it's I didn't say completely delusional, I just said enough that you can dream a little bit about what can be and taking all the things that you're doing in your life that got you to this point to to inform those things.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I mean, as we often write, uh we're stronger, braver, and more capable than we think we're we'll we all we all sell ourselves short. That's the the nature of the thing. But there's something around this reinvention thing that's around escape from myself. It's not like moving towards, it's moving away from something. I'm not so sure about that.
SPEAKER_00It's also performative. I mean, I think that's a word that we've been seeing a lot in the lexicon now, performative, and how sort of there's backlash against it. And I think of like a Pamela Anderson, for instance, and you know, that she stopped wearing makeup, but it's like she's just showing you exactly who she is, whether that's marketing or not, that could be argued too. But I think, you know, she wants to show you her authentic self and who she is, and she's not performing for the camera anymore. Jamie Lee Curtis, another one, you know. I I think like that's part of it. Reinvention can feel performative because it's it's photo, it's photogenic, you know, it's something that you can make a reel with and say, look at my reinvention journey. You know, everybody's on a journey. And I think it's it's not as exciting to, you know, the social media verse if you're sort of just like, oh no, I think I'm just gonna stay myself and maybe tweak a few things here and there, and you know, it's not that's not as sexy, maybe to the world.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah, for the most part, we're pretty great just the way we are.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I I think so. And I think you become more comfortable your with your s I mean, I don't know many people that have said they're not more comfortable with themselves as they've gotten older. I mean, I know I am. I think that was a big surprise, you know, because you're so scared of it and you're like, what am I gonna be when I'm old? You know, or what's it like getting old, or all those things, and you're desperately there are you know, there's people that would say no to that, right? But I really think like you you know what to do and you know who you are, and you don't have to go and and start everything all over. That's a road to misery, otherwise that it is, and it's you know, people say do what you love, right? It's like, you know, easier said than done. But I think you have to go back and look at your life and be like, what was the time that I just felt really pure and my most authentic self? And mine was always being a creative person and writing and drawing and all those things. The office politics and, you know, I produced other people's projects for a large part of my life. I wasn't being the creative one. I mean, I think I was creative as a producer, but I was making other people's ideas come to life for a very long time and not my own. And I'm grateful that I did that because I think being a producer is such an amazing, you learn so many great life skills doing that job, you know, and how to navigate so many things. So I think that kind of propelled me to be able to do some of the things I'm doing now. And I'll always use those skills. So none of it is for naught. That's the other thing, you know. So many times in your life you could be like, oh, what am I- Why am I doing this? What am I doing here? You know, but it's like there's something to get from everything. It sounds very Pollyanna-ish of me, but I I do bel have to believe that because I don't I don't like regret. I think regret is another really slippery slope in life.
SPEAKER_03I often quote the Marlon Brando thing from On the Waterfront. I I could have been a contender.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, could have been. Well, be one.
SPEAKER_03Why don't you be one? You know he he didn't say I could have been a champion. He said I could have been a contender.
SPEAKER_00He did. Just like that.
SPEAKER_03You know, get as Brene Brown's now. Get in the arena, like, you know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and it's not too late. It's never too late, as people say. But I think if you spend a lot of time I don't know, I I think this whole wellness movement and everything has had some really great things, but I also think the constant seeking and looking for something that's not yet there is problematic and could probably drive you a little crazy. It's probably right in front of you what you want it to be. You're just not looking at it that way.
SPEAKER_03That's interesting that you connect that. I I think the titans of tech seem to have this desire to for endless longevity. And so there's this like terror of death.
SPEAKER_02And I and I think there's something related to that with this reinvention thing. Versus evolution.
SPEAKER_00It's I guess this is sort of like splitting hairs here, but um, but I think there's a big there's a big difference between those things. You know, like I see so many people, obviously AI is such a big thing that everybody's talking about everywhere. There's so many people that are against it, but it's like, okay, it's here. How can you work with it and just take, you know, like I I'm more of an evol adapt or die kind of girl. Like I really believe in evolution, revolution, evolution. But reinvention just, like you said from the very beginning, at its core, implies that you're not good enough the way you are.
SPEAKER_03You know, it's sort of related to reinvention is sort of related to revolution. Like culturally, just globally, we're sort of living in this this like border world where like sort of the world was one way and it's becoming this other way, but we don't quite know what that is. And so we're in this like in-between state, and it's like Chip Connolly talks a lot about this uh liminality as a human. So you you sort of, you know, he talks about this sort of phase that happens in the 50s and 60s, and you're sort of in between things. But I I think that what we're living in is this like really chaotic, uh undetermined state. And and it you you know, sort of the the geopolitics of it, the cultural bit of it, the the tech bit, there's just like a lot that's in this fuzzy in-between, and we don't quite know what it is. And I think it makes a lot of people, it makes, it makes it affects me and I think a lot of people, this idea that, okay, like I need to control something. People become extreme in their cultural views, political views, but I think also their views about themselves and their lives. It's like, okay, like I need to, like, like you wrote, like, I guess I need to move to Portugal and like make baskets or something. I don't know.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Like, and from the looks of your social media, it appears that everybody you know has done just that. And you're like, why is everybody else doing? You know, it's so I think I think too, I I wonder about that because right now times feel completely crazy, but is it always like that? Like, do you think people No No, it's not. You don't think people who were 50 in 1965 were feeling that way? Okay.
SPEAKER_03No, it is very much. I hear people say, like, oh, well, you know, things have always changed. It's not like now. No, no, no, no. Like, like we are, we are in we are in between there's this enormous flux through all these different verticals of life that has never, never been like that.
SPEAKER_00And there's always fast, so much fast change.
SPEAKER_03Something's moving around a little bit. Yeah, that's always sort of been the case, but it is but not like this.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And and I think that as humans, we have just a lot of trouble dealing with this level of uncertainty, like not knowing if you, if, if you're in a setup that's like you don't like, but you know what it is, that's one thing. But if you're in like you don't really know like all these things that are moving, and I and I think it it it it brings on this attraction of, okay, I can't control all this other stuff, but I can, you know, move to the Algarve and make baskets. I can do that.
SPEAKER_00Right, right. But isn't is that really reinvention or is that really just embracing who you really are? Because I think of, you know, as fascinated by Rachel Ward, who would be a great interview for you guys, because I think she's phenomenal. You remember Rachel Ward from Against All Odds and the Thornbirds, very beautiful. Recently, she's posting a lot on Instagram of her farm that she lives in with Brian Brown, her husband in Australia. She's got gray hair. It's kind of like all over the place, kind of like Lori Anderson style hair, you know, like spiky, no makeup, wrinkles, the whole thing. I think she looks amazing, but she got so much grief online. Like, oh my God, that's Rachel Ward. She was so beautiful, you know, like that kind of stuff. Like, why is she just letting so they said she let herself go? And I thought, yeah, she let herself go to think about something other than looking like she's 30. She let herself go to do what she really loves to do. So I think you could also take letting yourself go as the license to go and be who you really want to be. So I think it's bigger, you know, it maybe moving to Oaxaca might not be reinvention, but it's like, oh wow, like I've always loved really colorful places and nice weather. And I dreamt of living that life, you know, and it's funny watching that movie against all odds now, because it's all about, you know, move living in Mexico on the beach with, you know, the beautiful woman and the beautiful guy, and you know, happily until they have to go back to real life. But I think there's a way to marry like what feels like a fantasy, you know, for a lot of people that would feel like there's no way I could ever do that. I can never just leave and do, you know, and it's like you can, you know, and it's it's because you're you have an awareness of who you really are now and and what makes you Yeah.
SPEAKER_03That's what I hear you saying is that you're are you moving towards yourself? Yes. Are you in a state of self-knowledge and knowing? Or in you are you in a state of reactivity to all the stuff that's going on around you?
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_03And that can be very hard to parse.
SPEAKER_00I'm in an age group now where people are empty nesters, and that's a whole period of life where people really think so much about who am I now that I don't have the school pickups and I don't have children in the house anymore. Even women with how they dress have a freak out at that moment in life. It's like, who am I now? And it's like, you you know who you are, I would hope. I think it's interesting that people think that they have to keep changing and changing and changing versus evolving.
SPEAKER_03Let's take a quick break. When we return, Sherry and I get into the marketing of aging, the pressure to keep changing. And while the simple answer is sometimes really the best. I used to think the afternoon fade was a caffeine problem. Have another coffee, push through, keep going. But caffeine mostly mutes the signal that tells you you're tired. The fatigue is still there, building underneath, and when it wears off, you feel the drop. What I like about Element Lemonade iced tea is that it takes a different approach. It uses full black tea extract. So the caffeine comes with L-theanine and polyphenols, the way it exists in the plant. Then it adds a meaningful dose of electrolytes, sodium, potassium, and magnesium, the same foundation as Elements Core Hydration Mix. For me, that makes sense in the summer. Heat, training, travel, long work days, all of that asks more from the system. I reach for lemonade iced tea when I want something that feels clean, steady, and actually refreshing, with no sugar, artificial colors, or strange ingredients. Get a free eight-count sample pack of Elements most popular drink mix flavors with any purchase at drinkelement.com slash AGIST. Find your favorite flavor or share with a friend. Once again, that's D-R-I-N-K-L-M-N-T.com slash AGIST. There are a few people that are in my orbit who I've seen. They're very capable people. It's almost like they they're like, well, I'm gonna do I'm gonna be this person for two or three years. Okay, now I'm gonna be this person for two or three years. I think it's very difficult for them because they're they're trying to like sort of figure out who who are they and what what are they doing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And I I mean I feel bad for them, but I don't I it's it's I think it's hard.
SPEAKER_00It is hard. And again, like there's so many options for for all of that change if you want to look at it a superficial way. I mean, go on Instagram every day and see all the things that you're getting served to change the way you look, change the way you feel, change, you know, it's it's also like, you know, like with menopause and the marketing of menopause, it's like, you know, you're being told that this could be a controversial thing to say, but the marketing of it, the industrial complex of it is, you know, you shouldn't be going through this in a way. Like it's such a natural part of life. And obviously some people suffer more than others, but it's also part of life that you just have to go through, you know? So I don't want to take away life experience. No, I know. No, I and I don't mean it like that. I know for some people it's unbearable and terrible, but I think again, like it's such a natural part of life that we have to experience. So, you know, you can't really not go well, you could you could, but you know what I'm trying to say, though. I I mean to imply that there's something not normal about menopause is is I think as a Jet Xer and a bit cynical person, there's a part of me that's like, this is all, this is all, this is all a lot. You know, I I think it's you know, there's a product, there's an app and a product for all of these things that you want to do, right? Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Absolutely. If there's a need, there's a product.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, exactly. And I've been part of it all my whole life. I've worked in advertising, so I I know firsthand, and I'm not crapping on it. I think there's some great products out there, great programs, and all the things, but not going to change who you are necessarily. Or or you shouldn't want it to, I should say.
SPEAKER_03And which, you know, brings us back to the earlier part of the conversation, the Ram Das quote, where, you know, wherever you are, that's where you are.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I mean, I'm coming back to the Jersey Shore, a place that I really didn't love when I was young in high school. Like I just was like, ugh, I don't love the people I went to high school with. Like they're not, you know, I want to move to New York. And like here I am coming back here to a place that now gives me so much joy because it's it's a part of my existence, you know, it's a part of my existence when I was young. I really appreciate it now. I think it's just embracing all the parts of yourself, even the ones that you're like, oh man. Yeah. You know, I could use some work in that department, but it's like, no, but it's it's who you are, and and you're gonna, you're gonna, there's something good about it.
SPEAKER_02I think that's really lovely. Yeah. I think that's I really like that.
SPEAKER_03You know, it's like discovering the the parts of us and there's like loving us for that. Like people just had a conversation with somebody about sort of the, you know, I can't imagine the horror of being Chris uh Kardashian. Like she must like wake up every morning like in a terror.
SPEAKER_02Why, why?
SPEAKER_03Because there's a limit to how much tweak she can do. And she's gonna come up against that in the not so distant future. And so now having this whole like desire for perfection and that, okay, we call so maybe like if if you say like, okay, my my imperfection is my desire for perfection, okay, you can embrace that for a while, but that is exhausting and and and unsustainable. So there's only so much skin that can get pulled, so much stuffing can shoot in your face, and then the whole thing's gonna fall apart.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And so and I and my guess, you know, she's not a dummy, she knows this, but she's gonna, you know, go at it for a while, and then I don't know how we got into the ditch about this. Uh so yeah, that's not I mean, God bless those people, but I don't know, that seems like a hard way to live.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I've just been seeing so much more of a trend too. I mean, there are a lot of women that are deciding to grow go gray now, and there's all these things like that you could do, you know, like blending your hair and starting the process of it going gray. I think it's very liberating for people to do that. I'm not anti-any, I'm I'm for all the things. If you want to do the things, please do the things. I have no problem with, I think it's great, but you know, I think there's a great relief when you realize that's not the only option. I don't have to look like I'm 30. I can look like myself. You know, I I think that's it. It's like the option of just being authentic to yourself is an option.
SPEAKER_03I mean, that's that's freedom, right? Yes.
SPEAKER_00Freedom is like this is who I am.
SPEAKER_03This is my authentic self. I'm presenting it to you. You can't hold anything on me. This is just who I am. Done. No secrets.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, exactly. And I'm I'm, you know, in a in an age where my hair could go gray, you know, I'm not there yet. That's not something I necessarily want to do yet, but I'm not gonna fight it when it comes. I'm gonna listen, I'm gonna listen to that. But I think too, it's you think as you get older, like I don't want to spend a second doing anything I don't want to do. I mean, there's gonna be things I don't want to do in life, like, you know, dentist appointments and things like that, obviously, to take care of your yourself. But I think you have an awareness of like, wow, like this is very counter to who I am when you're in a situation, or even if you're at an event that you don't want to be at, you're like, I don't want to be here. You know, whereas when I was younger, I'd be like, oh, I'm so awkward. I don't want to be here, I don't want to talk to anybody, you know, like that kind of thing. And now I'm like, oh, time to go, because I like to be in bed by 9:30 and go to sleep and, you know, do all my skincare and get a good night's sleep. Like that's what I that's what I that's my idea of a good party now. So, you know.
SPEAKER_03So what should we leave our people with, with this idea of this rein midlife reinvention trap?
SPEAKER_00I think it's just an awareness that it's something that's being sold to us every day. And we should really, I don't know that you have to go so deep within to see who you really are. And I do think it's worth looking at who you were before the marketing messages hit and before you thought about how weird you may look in a bathing suit or any of those things, you know, and say, like, who am I at my core? And I guarantee you it's gonna be the same person. It's it's gonna be a similar person to you, who you were as a kid. I think that that's something that I have thought about a lot. For me, that's very true. For me, it was all about going back to just like being a solely creative individual. And that's where I found my true happiness. And I think reinvention feels too much like a marketing thing and really focus on the evolution of yourself and take all those things along the way, good, bad, ugly, and otherwise, that that make you who you are to get you to your next place. We're always changing. We're aging every day, right? If we're not aging, we're dying. So I think the privilege and the gift that that has don't throw away everything and who you are and who you've who you've worked really hard on becoming.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Look back at that four-year-old, what did they like to do? And that four-year-old has a lot of capacity and experience now.
SPEAKER_00Like, what did you like to do when you were four years old? What were you like as a kid? Were you were you a photographer? Were you creative? You know, no.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I think I got on my first camera when I was about six. See?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. There's something about the purity of that. And you know, it's interesting because I think as you get older, I'll leave you with this. There becomes a purity of uh of self, I think that happens as you get older. Like I said, being very aware of the people and places and things that you want to spend time, people you want to be with, places you want to go, you know, you have a much I I'm much clearer on that stuff than I used to be. So I think it's like clearing out some of the clutter and you know, like when I go to the beach, I feel my happiest. That's my happiest self. And I feel clear here. And, you know, being in New York City still has that for me too, weirdly enough, as different as it is than the beach. But, you know, I think that's what's what everybody loves so much about this Knicks win is it really reminds you of who you are as a New Yorker. You know, if you were here in the 90s like I was when the Knicks were the best, you know, like it brought you back to a time where you're like, wow, like I had so much fun watching the Knicks when I was young, and I'm having so much fun watching them now. So, you know, it all comes back to basketball, David, for me.
SPEAKER_03It's something that only people who were here in the 90s and went through all that and all the disappointment and sadness and like the PTSD of that was 30, what, 35 years ago. And this, I think that's one of the things that like why this meant so much for everybody.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think so. And I think it's why people love the 90s, and there was that whole during the that show about JFK Jr. in Caroline, why people just fell so in love with the 90s again. Because for I don't know, my 90s in New York, I was in my 20s, and it was an extraordinarily creative time to be in New York City and surrounded by a lot of really great people. And I don't want to go back there, but I want to kind of embrace some of the things that I was feeling about that time as I move forward with my own creativity, if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_02It does.
SPEAKER_00Cool.
SPEAKER_03Sherry, I love the work that you're doing for ages.
SPEAKER_00So happy here. I love I love working with you. I so believe in what you're doing, all the things you're doing, everything. The superage, I'm tempted to put my hat in the ring for that too, and go do some challenges.
SPEAKER_03Super age games.
SPEAKER_00Yes, yes, yes. Thanks for the opportunity to chat with you today here from the beach, and I hope I we can talk again soon.
SPEAKER_03I hope so.
SPEAKER_00Yes, absolutely. See you later.
SPEAKER_03That was Sherry Rattle-Rosenberg. And first of all, I love Sherry. I think she's wonderful. I've known Sherry for a very long time. I think she's a really she's a fabulous writer, and she always comes up with these really prescient takes on things that perhaps some of the rest of us should spend a little more time thinking about, truthfully. I love this idea of the distinction between reinvention and evolution. So reinvention can sound like really exciting, right? I could be a new person, but it often carries this hidden insult. And guess what? Wherever you're going, guess who's coming with you? You. Sherry's argument is not that people should never change. Of course we change. We adapt, we evolve. Sometimes we absolutely need to get out of the situation that's not working. Absolutely. However, most midlifes probably don't need this dramatic public overhaul. For the majority of us, let's first consider leaning into the person we have been all along, becoming the better version of you. So that sounds like evolution rather than reinvention to me. Evolution lets us bring our experiences with us, the good decisions, the bad ones, the detours, the work we did that maybe didn't look like the dream job at the time, but taught us how to function in the world. None of this is really wasted. You know, we can learn from everything if we know how to use it. We live in this culture that's just very good at creating dissatisfaction and then offering us a solution. Guess what? Buy this product. You'll be better. Go to the retreat, go to the three-day reinvention seminar, whatever. Get a procedure, get a new identity, get a complete life overhaul. Hmm. See how that works out. Sherry cautions us to think twice before we throw away the very parts of ourselves that actually make us who we are. I also like her idea of looking back at who we were as kids. What did we do before the world got noisy? What came naturally to us? What gave us energy? That four-year-old, six-year-old, ten-year-old version of us is still there somewhere. Only now that person has decades of experience, judgment, resilience, and hopefully a little less interest in performing for the people who are not paying attention anyway. Yeah. That's it for this week. Stay strong, stay vibrant. We'll see you next time. Take care now.