Botox and Burpees
Botox and Burpees
S05E92 Unpacking CrossFit's Youth Decline with Special Guest Sasha Rhee
Our conversation with Sasha Rhee, Dr. Rhee's daughter, we examine the decline of CrossFit among young adults, delving into perceptions and challenges that deter participation. Sasha shares her extensive journey in CrossFit, starting from age nine and continuing through her college years at Duke University.
Through her insights, we address the role of social media, the intimidating aspects of CrossFit, and the popularity of alternative fitness options.
• Exploring Sasha's journey with CrossFit from a young age
• Understanding the appeal of CrossFit's workout structure
• Analyzing goals of fitness: health vs. aesthetics
• Discussing social circles and the absence of peers in CrossFit
• Perceptions of CrossFit as intimidating and complex
• Reviewing demographic registration statistics for CrossFit
• Impact of social media trends on young men’s fitness choices
• Accessibility of CrossFit classes in college settings
• Comparing CrossFit with popular fitness franchises
• Examining challenges for CrossFit implementation on campus
• Highlighting the necessity for effective marketing strategies
• Exploring the potential of influencer partnerships
• Considering long-term participation as the demographic ages
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All right, welcome to another episode of Botox and Burpees. I'm here with my first episode with Sasha Rhee. She is my very special guest. She will be a regular recurring guest on the podcast.
Sam Rhee:This is our first one together and today we're going to be talking about why more young adults are not doing CrossFit. The demographics have shown that, as CrossFit has become initially a very popular fitness trend, maybe 10 years ago, it's starting to decline amongst young adults, primarily as their age demographic increases. And so, as since Sasha has been someone who has done CrossFit since age nine, she's now 19, starting with CrossFit kids and she's still doing CrossFit to this day. So I would like to sort of pick her brain about her and her generation and what we can do to increase engagement in CrossFit for young adults. First of all, thank you, sasha, for joining me on my podcast, and the first question I wanted to ask you is just I know we've talked on the other podcast, herd Fit, where Dave Syvertson and I sort of talked to you about your CrossFit experience, but just very briefly, give me your CrossFit experience how did you start and why are you still doing it?
Sasha Rhee:Yes, so I started at age nine. I joined the CrossFit kids class at our local box, crossfit Bison. One of the coaches was running it and it was pretty typical like moving. We're just like jumping running around the gym, but it was just like nice being in the box. After that I got into private training with Liz Tanzola around age 12 to 13. And with her that was more about like sports and getting my stamina up for soccer and lacrosse, and so that's when I actually learned all the movements. I learned how to do a clean, I learned how to do like back squats, and all that with Liz, and so that actually introduced me to like the types of workouts that are truly CrossFit like.
Sasha Rhee:After that I then started going to the adult classes, supervised with usually my mom, around age like 14-15, and that's when I was like fully in a class with other adults and really got to do like whatever the WOD was on the board, and so after that, around like 16-17, when I started to be able to drive, then I would just go alone or my mom would drop me off.
Sasha Rhee:I was younger and that was just now kind of how it's been for a while. Um, I started at Duke. I'm a sophomore now. So I guess, like a year ago and freshman year I didn't have a car so I couldn't box as much but like go to a box, but I did crossfit style workouts um from like the Facebook that we have, um. And then this year I joined a box called CrossFit Chapel Hill, which is in Chapel Hill, north Carolina, and I went four to five times this semester, not that much, but when I couldn't go then I would do the CrossFit style workouts at the Duke gym, and so that's kind of where I'm at with my 10 year CrossFit journey.
Sam Rhee:OK, so why do you like CrossFit and why are you still doing it?
Sasha Rhee:Okay. So why do you like CrossFit and why are you still doing it? I like it because I think the workouts are built in such a way where you don't have to work out for like an hour, an hour and a half. You can work out for 20 to 30 minutes. I mean, sometimes our AMRAPs are like 20, 15, but the way it's structured, with the high cardio while also like lifting or doing something with a weight, I think that just helps me like reach my peak fitness and pushes me, because I'm just not someone that can sustain for like an hour, hour and a half at the gym. So I enjoy, like that quick, get your heartbeat up and I feel like I know I'm getting good workout in because I'm sweating so much Like I don't think I've ever sweat doing anything else.
Sam Rhee:What is your goal with CrossFit, like? Are you doing it for health? Are you doing it so you can look better? You know, keep your weight down. Like what is it that you? What is your ultimate goal with your exercise?
Sasha Rhee:I think being healthy is maintaining like a certain weight, for me at least. So it's kind of like a mix of that. But CrossFit's good for that because the mix of running and weightlifting, those obviously like if you read about like what are the most efficient ways of fitness, like that type of mix is really good.
Sam Rhee:Does that extend to the rest of your lifestyle? Like are you eating well, are you watching what you eat? Are you, you know, avoiding other? You know issue, you know health problems drinking all those things?
Sasha Rhee:I think it sometimes does. It's a little bit harder, I think, to other aspects of it because those are more long-term goals. But CrossFit itself, I think, is very helpful with helping me be more cognizant of my body and what I'm doing with it.
Sam Rhee:What about your friends? How many other people around you are doing CrossFit and what are they saying about it?
Sasha Rhee:None of my friends are doing CrossFit.
Sam Rhee:No one.
Sasha Rhee:I don't know a single one.
Sam Rhee:You're the only person.
Sasha Rhee:The only other kids I know that have done CrossFit are kids who also have parents that went to our gym. That's it, like the only people my age that I know. The rest of my friends either they're like student athletes, so they're like doing, you know, like lifts with the trainer that they're assigned, or Pilates is really big. A lot of my friends run just like very extensively. Or a lot of my guy friends will just like go to the school gym or like a local gym and they'll do their own type of like lifting.
Sam Rhee:And why do you think that is?
Sasha Rhee:I think there's something like about the barrier to entry. With CrossFit, for example, like, I think, with Pilates, like Solid Core, like all these different franchises, they make it very easy to be, like you can just come in and we'll teach you, and they have different levels, like beginner, expert, like I think all these brands have that. Crossfit, I think, it's more intimidating to get into and people's perception of it is that it's very intense and so it's a hard thing for a beginner to get into. And you know you want to stay comfortable, so a lot of kids will just stick with what they know and have been doing for years.
Sam Rhee:Have they heard of CrossFit before you talked to them about?
Sasha Rhee:it. Some had, some didn't. Most of the ones that did, though, their perception was mostly like oh, it's like intense weightlifting, it's like really scary. And they have those like fake pull-ups which are kipping pull-ups. That's usually the perception, but a lot of people will always use the word like oh, I heard, it's really intense. Or there's like those fail videos that they see on Instagram, and those are all usually CrossFit videos.
Sam Rhee:So just to look at some numbers, I don't think that this is just a fear-mongering tactic. I think it is actually real Looking at last year's open registration numbers overall. I think it is actually real Looking at last year's open registration numbers overall, although there was a 6.7% increase in the 2024 CrossFit Open, where 344,396 athletes registered in 2024, that's 6.7% up over 2023. But the concerning issue is if you are a business such as CrossFit. Issue is is, if you are a business such as CrossFit, the teen division, which was from 16 and up to 18, actually decreased 6.2 percent and the men actually from 18 to 34. Their registration numbers also decreased by 0.2 percent.
Sam Rhee:There wasa three, almost four percent increase in the women from 18 to 34. But overall it was just a slight improvement, maybe 1.7% overall, if you count both men and women in the 18 to 34-year-old division. The biggest increase was all in the 35-plus and you could see in every age division there was either an 8.5% up to 30% increase in number of registrations. So these are all old people, people like me. So I know that there is a little bit of a gender breakdown when I do talk to younger athletes about what it is that they're interested in and it seems like and I looked at the trend and demographics with the boys like the young adult men, a lot of it is about aesthetics and bodybuilding, and why do you think that there's such a trend with young adult men that they're more focused on that?
Sasha Rhee:I would say social media plays a very big part, as it does with many, many trends. But I will be looking at my guy friends, friends for you. Pages like what's coming up on their social media, the bodybuilding and like workout accounts are just very popular and there's so many and a lot of guys on social media will just post a lot about like their fitness journey, their body, like all that, and most of the most popular ways are like bodybuilding and lifting and doing those like split workouts or like a certain day you do legs or a certain day you do pull or push. And I think, just because like that's the trend that you see most in social media, like there's no really like CrossFit influencers per se, as often that's a big part because that's most of like our media consumption as teens.
Sam Rhee:You mentioned Pilates and core. What was it? Core and some of these others new franchises so? Or just existing franchises? What is it about these franchises Now? Are these high? Have you ever been to any of these classes?
Sasha Rhee:I have not. I've been actually wanting to try Pilates, but it's very different from CrossFit. But a lot of my friends have gone and they're very popular on social media.
Sam Rhee:How do you think accessibility is so for you? You live on campus in Durham, and how many boxes were there in your general area that you could sort of get to easily?
Sasha Rhee:Like the high quality ones. There is like one and that's the one that I go to. So you said high quality.
Sam Rhee:So what are how many low quality boxes?
Sasha Rhee:Well, one of them, like CrossFit Durham I think, became like not a CrossFit gym anymore and it's now like has CrossFit materials but it doesn't go by like CrossFit Durham. It's called like Bull City Gym or something like that, I can't remember. So that's not really like a CrossFit one. And then I haven't, like I really can't see anymore. There's one, but its website is so outdated I couldn't even find the classes. The only one across the Chapel Hill had like the most up to date website, the most members, the easiest way to sign up that I was used to like back here at home, which made it most accessible.
Sam Rhee:Do you see anything on your social media feeds for other fitness stuff versus CrossFit? So what comes up on your social media feeds versus what's, and what I assume not, is some of it. Crossfit is none of it CrossFit.
Sasha Rhee:None of it is CrossFit. If I want CrossFit media, I need to search for it. Or like it's the accounts I follow. Like the CrossFit media, I need to search for it. Or like it's the accounts I follow, like the CrossFit Games account. Um, the Pilates, like Solid Core all of those different brands are really popular.
Sasha Rhee:I don't know if it's because my For you page obviously is tailored to like me and like I'm a girl and it probably knows I'm like somewhere in the 18 to 19 year old range. I just keep getting a lot of things about Solid Core. Girls are raving about it. They think it's like the hardest workout you could ever do, and a lot of girls are just posting about like hot yoga, hot Pilates, that type of thing. I think I see a reformer on my For you page at least like once a day, and a lot of it also is like I think that they are tailoring and catering to the age group. Like if you go to a Pilates class, it's all women essentially and a lot of it is teens Like my age, are like a little bit older, and I think that that's how they do. It is like through social media, because so many influencers are like saying Pilates is the way, like I love going to solid core, like this is what I like to do, and so it's like a trend almost now.
Sam Rhee:What is the makeup of the classes when you go to CrossFit Chapel Hill in terms of age demographics?
Sasha Rhee:right now I'm definitely the youngest by far. I think they have a young coach. She is, I think she's just. She's a grad student at UNC, so she's like 24 maybe, but obviously she's coaching, so she's been doing it for a while. Everyone else is, I want to say, like at least 10 years older than me. Some are like on the much older side than we see at bison actually, but most are like very old and I've seen maybe like one to two kids, but they kind of keep to themselves and I think that they are just more focused on getting the workout in when you work out at your school gym and you're doing these crossfit style workouts, how difficult is it for you to adapt what is available to you at the school to do what program you might follow from, say, our home website?
Sasha Rhee:Yeah, it's a little bit difficult, because a lot of the ones that involve like running and weightlifting I really can't do, because the cardio area is in a very different area than the weight room and you have to like scan into the weight room and it's really long, which sucks, because those are my favorite workouts, like I love, love, nancy, I love like the ones where it's lifting and then you go out for a run.
Sasha Rhee:Um, it hasn't been too difficult though, because there is like a kind of like a mixed modal type of area and that has like dumbbells, a wall for like wall balls, a rig, and so there I do more of like the EMOM AMRAP, of like wall balls, dumbbells, all that. But I will say like it's harder than because I still want to like lift. But I haven't back squatted in a while, even though I've gone to the gym, because I would rather do, like the high heart rate that just go and do like five I don't know like five sets of two, for example, back squats, because I can't really do anything besides that, and so I'd rather do the ones where I'm moving a lot more like doing rig work or something than just kind of stationary lifting, so that that has kind of sacrificed like my stationary lifting skills with like the type of like heart rate work that I would rather do what do you think of the franchises that are most like CrossFit, like an F45 or Orange Theory?
Sam Rhee:do your, do you do any of your peers do any of that stuff?
Sasha Rhee:a couple. I think I know a couple people that like worked at orange theory, for example, that go to duke, I think otherwise not really. Like I haven't really heard anyone mention f41, I don't even know that it's like maybe 45 um, and orange theory, like, no, like, not as much either. A lot of duke girls just will end up doing like pilates or yoga, like I said do they have classes on campus for that?
Sasha Rhee:they do have like the classes at the gym, and so a lot of people like the Pilates class. They also have like hit, you know like hit workouts, of dancing workouts, I think too like yoga, um, so you can like also sign up for those what would the feasibility you think of having CrossFit style workouts, or even just crossfit, on campus?
Sam Rhee:is that something that would even be a possibility at this point? Because I know, for example, university of michigan brand like co-branded with peloton, and they just got like a million peloton bikes and they're doing like peloton workouts on campus, like is that possible?
Sasha Rhee:I don't think so, because I'm thinking about. There is a class that runs in my mixed modal area, like on tuesday afternoons, and it's just hard because if you think about how crossfit gyms are structured, the crossfit chapel hill is structured the same way as our box here. They have the rig in the middle and so you can lift off the rig and it's just very like open space for any type of workout. There's no really open space like that at Duke, even in my mixed modal area. There's just not. Like.
Sasha Rhee:You wouldn't be able to do barbell lifting with the class you would have to do like, like I said, like one of those like heart rate workouts, and even then you can't even do like wall blows. The wall is not big enough for that many people. So I don't really see how it could be feasible per se, and also with just the amount of equipment usually the CrossFit workouts entail, the classes couldn't even be that big. So I think it'd be difficult just to like, get everyone to like do it safely, and it just takes a lot of time.
Sam Rhee:Right now I'm thinking about solutions for both specific affiliate owners as well as for CrossFit HQ, which is the home office. And if I was an affiliate owner and I knew that I wanted to appeal to a younger demographic, say adults like especially men, like young men and I knew that they were really into bodybuilding and aesthetics would it make sense to because CrossFit does involve and encompass a lot of weightlifting I mean, we back squat all the time, we do Olympic lifts, we, you know these are all you can tailor it to to make it more aesthetic, and I know there's programming out there that allows that within sort of the CrossFit space. Would it make sense for a local affiliate to say and to market it specifically for young adults, so that way they feel like it's their class, just like it's not just like a bunch of 50-year-olds and like two 20-year-olds? Would it make sense in your mind if they were able to do that for growth in terms of that market?
Sasha Rhee:I do think marketing is the most important thing. It is difficult, though, because of the learning curve that does come with CrossFit. Like there are guys that lift, but do they know how to do a clean? No, like. If I bring up to my guy friends like do you know how to do a clean and jerk, they have no idea what I'm talking about. And then when they see a video, their eyes like go wide, like I a video, their eyes like go wide, like I think, yes, like marketing is part of it to get kids through the door, but you also need to market it in a way where you're like it won't take that long for you to learn, because I think for a lot of people with crossfit it's like like with solid car, I know I can like go to an intro class and that'll be fine and those exist.
Sasha Rhee:Versus with crossfit it's not really marketed as, like we have beginner classes, anyone can join, even though I know that's what CrossFit HQ's overall message is always wanted, like they always wanted it to be that the learning curve is just too steep, and I think, especially with guys, the cardio aspect is like too much. They think that it will hinder like their bodybuilding aspect, um, like there's no guy really that I know that wants to squat and then go run and then come back and do more squats. They're more chasing, like one row maxes or prs, which is a thing that we do in crossfit but not every day. Um, so I think marketing it and like you have to take a long time to really convince people like you, like anyone can do crossfit and you will lift a lot okay, because I think some of the most jacked people that you can see on social media are crossfit athletes, especially.
Sam Rhee:I mean I don't know if the women necessarily- in our general society would want that. But there are certainly men like if you looked at a lot of the CrossFit Games athletes like they're very jacked.
Sasha Rhee:Yes.
Sam Rhee:So I feel like the. But the issue really is, is that learning curve, like learning how to back squat, is not a big deal, or you know? I mean I see obviously a lot of people back squatting poorly, but you can do it right away. But, like you said, learning how to clean, snap, to do a snatch, to do a proper jerk, like that's those compound lifts, those olympic lifts maybe that barrier to entry might be difficult for young men unless they could see the potential results that that might give them I think also with it it comes to the point of like it's like hard.
Sasha Rhee:Obviously at the age that I'm at it's hard, the point of like it's like hard. Obviously at the age that I'm at it's hard to be humble. And so it's really it's hard to like get over that Like, especially with guys. Come on Like, because you know, at the gym, when we have onboarding classes at Bison, you start with like a PVC pipe in the back and there's no way that the guys like half the guys that I know was willingly learn how to lift with a PVC pipe and take feedback from a coach If they said, for example, you don't squat right, I don't think a lot of guys would be receptive to that.
Sasha Rhee:And so with CrossFit, if it's not self-motivation, there's no other way to get yourself in that class, because you have to really want to and be okay with that learning curve and be okay with that time. And I also just think kids my age don't have that time anymore like to put into like across the class, like I only went five times a week and I've been doing this for 10 years and I know all the movements, I know I can do most of it. So I think that's also just an aspect of it is like actually like what's motivating you, because it's it's a lot of time that you're still putting it, especially as a college kid how do we unlock that social media aspect of it, because so much of this is driven by influencers, people who post um.
Sam Rhee:Would that be one good way either? If you were an affiliate locally, if you could, you know, partner with people who were young and sort of get them to start to do that for and also say on a national or international level, um, start that uh trend, uh. And you know how these things sort of feed upon themselves. And I mean, no one can control social. The craziest stuff goes viral all the time. But if the craziest stuff goes viral, why not CrossFit, like, why not figure out what might be appealing, find influencers and find someone that might be able to sort of get you that sort of push?
Sasha Rhee:I honestly think CrossFit should hire, like, a Gen Z intern to run their social media, because the ones that go viral, and I'm thinking about the brands, about the brands, well, one it's not really it doesn't start local, because it would be hard for Bison to what, like I don't really know how they would appeal to the masses unless they, like, went to a high school and I don't know, like partnered with a high school. That's not really something that happens a lot right.
Sasha Rhee:I think it would just have to come from a national level, because then people will look for their local affiliate. For example, a lot of these influencers are sponsored by. You know they could be sponsored by solid core or solid core like, or they got into it and then they loved it and solid court sponsored them, like things like that. I think that if cross it did those sponsorships it goes crazy like a tiktok could be banned soon. Who knows? But the most active brands I think that saw a lot of jump in their revenue and their sales I really think came from, like, their social media presence.
Sasha Rhee:Some of the top brands I see that became so popular on TikTok. They're leaving like funny comments on the posts that go viral. They're leaving, they're posting like keeping up with the trends and relating it to their product. And I think if CrossFit could do that, it would become way more appealing, because I love the CrossFit Instagram. I think it's cool and heartwarming. But I also know the sport. If you don't know the sport and it doesn't seem like they're really on social media, they know how to kind of talk to younger people it's very detrimental, I think, in terms of that barrier to entry. So I do think if they increase sponsorships partnered with younger people who had a presence, that could help with this kind of misconception about the brand I that could help with this kind of misconception about the brand.
Sam Rhee:I would hope that would be a possibility. But just knowing CrossFit HQ and the people, they're so traditional in that aspect, like they can't even change minor, minor, minor things. And so for them to take that leap where they would actually do something that was beyond their percent Like for me as a 55 year old, it's I understand and I see it, but I couldn't conceive of it and for them to actually say, yeah, we're going to trust our brand and and give it up to a Gen Z or two, like Just run the TikTok.
Sasha Rhee:I mean I'm telling you, like these the funniest brands are the ones that are in on the. There's like a chill'm telling you like these, the funniest brands are the ones that are in on the trend. There's like a chill guy trend right now, and all of the brands are like hopping on it and are like tailoring it, though, to their specific product. So it's like, oh, like I just went to Pilates class, but like I'm just a chill guy, like something like that in the sense where it's like that catches people's eye because, at the end of the day, like you're not going to catch a gen z person anymore with typical traditional marketing aspects, like if you do a commercial things like that, that's just not the popular way. It's all on social media and it's all about appealing to whatever's current, and to do that you need a current social media team. Like I think social media teams and marketing teams are so important for like especially these brands that want to appeal to the young, like the younger masses uh, oh, that's such a challenge.
Sasha Rhee:I don't know if that's ever going to happen with with crossfit, honestly, um, maybe some funny memes, though I know I never heard back of a chance to get to planet.
Sam Rhee:They would be really funny and I hope they hire a better social media team well, uh, I hope so, and maybe someone out there that's listening can make that happen. Do you think that, as your demographic ages, though, that they might get into CrossFit as they get older, do you think?
Sasha Rhee:Yes, and I think it's because we see this at our gym all the time Former athletes, like former collegiate athletes d3, d2, d1 love crossfit.
Sasha Rhee:We have so many former athletes at our gym and I think that's because once you kind of, you know, once you mature, you graduate college, the ego isn't as much there. You're kind of like a working adult and so there's not much time for ego. I think that's when people are more willing to open themselves, up to it and willing to put in the work and the time. And I also just think, like when you're older and you start to get older, like you said, you move to the suburbs, like it's things like that, I guess, where you're able to hear about it more. But you also have the time, in a sense, where, like, you have the financial needs, like you have the time to put yourself out there. And as you get older also, there's more of an emphasis on fitness. Like I know that younger people are more into fitness now, but I think as you get older you're more reasonable about fitness and it's not something about looks and aesthetics.
Sasha Rhee:Yes, it's more about like, what can I do to, like, stay healthy? And I think that then that's crossfit's very appealing and that's why we see so many collegiate athletes at our like gym is the sense that they have that high intensity, that lifting, and I think that also there is an aspect of being good at CrossFit and I think as you get older that's kind of appealing, especially once you get into it. So I do think that as people get older they will get more into it. But that barrier of entry as a young person is really hard to get over.
Sam Rhee:So we just are going to have to wait until everyone gets old.
Sasha Rhee:Wait and also hope that the quality of the affiliates we're all over is the same Right.
Sam Rhee:It's a little disappointing to hear that you had to look at like three or four boxes before you found one that was half decent, and wasn't that? That's not the closest either, like Durham to Cross, it's not it's like 15, 20 minutes.
Sasha Rhee:I mean, I love Cross Chapel Hill. I must say shout out to them. I really like them. I'm glad I found them, but yeah, there's like not a single one in Durham. The next one after Chapel Hill was in Raleigh, which is like 30 minutes from campus, right so and it's. I understand, though, also that they're part part in Chapel Hill, because Chapel Hill has more families.
Sam Rhee:Yeah.
Sasha Rhee:And more students, like a bigger college campus, right, but yeah, it's pretty, it's. It very much varies and I think that's a big part also. If you can build a community or not is the quality of the local affiliate.
Sam Rhee:Well, so for me to get this podcast to go viral, I'm gonna have to get some TikTok stuff going and all that.
Sasha Rhee:Yeah, sam Maria's just a chill guy.
Sam Rhee:I don't even know what that meme is, for God's sake. Anyway, thank you so much for spending your time on this and I really hope that some people out there can think about this. If you have any thoughts, comments, about how you think CrossFit can do better, your local affiliate can do better in terms of appealing to young adults, I would love to hear it. Comment on our YouTube channel, send me a DM on Instagram at Botox and Burpees Podcast, and thank you again, sasha, thank, you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank.